Canadian True Crime - Case Updates, Mistakes, Opinions :)

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hi everyone, I'm on a break right now but there have been some updates to cases I've covered so I wanted to give you a little something out of the ordinary while I'm taking a little vacation with my family. We leave tomorrow and I am planning on catching up on Netflix and generally just attempting to give my mind a rest. We shall see how that goes. There are some spoilers in these cases or at least the ones I'm covering. So if you haven't listened to all my episodes, you can check the show notes and I've put

Starting point is 00:00:33 timestamps in for the cases I'm covering so you can fast forward through the others. I'm only covering cases that have had updates or that I have some sort of specific comment on. I'll be talking about Paul and Carla, Rina Verk, Dylan Millard, Andrea Giesbrecht, Victoria Schachtay, Curtis Vey and Angela Nicholson and some thoughts on the aftermath of the Echo Polytechnic episodes. This episode will contain some opinions because I have them. I just choose not to include them in episodes.

Starting point is 00:01:11 I'll also be talking about mistakes I've made and areas where I have unintentionally caused you a little bit of confusion. Okay, so the first case I'm going to be covering is the Echo Polytechnic Massacre from Montreal, Quebec. This is the story of the gunman who shot and killed 14 women, most of whom were engineering students. The gunman died by suicide at the end of the massacre so there's no real update there. But gun control continues to be a big issue here in Canada.

Starting point is 00:01:48 At the end of 2017, a pro-gun lobby group planned a demonstration at the site of the Montreal Memorial saying that gun control wasn't the answer and the money should be spent on mental health instead. Many were outraged at what appeared to be disrespect towards the victims and their families by the choice of location for the rally. Survivor Natalie Provole continues to be a high-profile advocate for gun control and works closely related to the organisation known as Polysousouviet, a group consisting of students and graduates of Polytechnique for arms control.

Starting point is 00:02:26 There has been some controversy over this and Natalie's involvement with another organisation so the pro-gun rally group has been attacking her in public saying she should step down from her volunteer role. Personally, she's a hero to me. I got some really great feedback on this episode and lots from people in Quebec. Thank you all so much. But I also got some not so great feedback. After this episode, I had a few people contact me annoyed that I'd chosen not to speak the

Starting point is 00:02:59 name of the gunman. They said my decision seemed a little bizarre since his name was so well known here in Canada so they didn't quite understand why I made that decision. However said that if I didn't want to give him any attention I should have chosen a different case to cover. Hopefully I adequately explained that I wasn't telling his story. I was actually telling the stories of the women who unfortunately collided with him and wanted to offer up the range of reasons why.

Starting point is 00:03:29 This case has reverberated throughout Quebec and national history. On one of my social media posts, Rachel from the Yours and Murder podcast said something that I couldn't agree more with. We don't need to speak the name of evil when evil does these acts for fame. Speak of the girls killed, not the man who ended their lives. And that is exactly what I did. Yep, it was more of a symbolic or artistic decision than something that could actually affect change, I know that, but I wanted to do it anyway.

Starting point is 00:04:06 I also received a concerning comment on my website which I didn't hit the approve button to publish, it's just kind of still sitting there. Whoever wrote it, I do wonder if you're listening right now. Your comment read, when you dehumanize men there are consequences. As soon as I read your comment I felt terrified. Were you saying that you thought I dehumanized him and that I would suffer consequences to that? Honestly, what consequences?

Starting point is 00:04:37 I really hope that you weren't threatening me. I spent a good portion of that series covering him, his honestly awful childhood of brutality and instability caused by his father and how a part of his personality drove him to adopt extreme and unreasonable attitudes and take his rage out on women. I humanized the hell out of him, in fact, the annoying thing was that in all my research, the women who lost their lives that day were always listed in one giant list of names and ages at the end of any article, like a tragic afterthought, they were just literally a list of names.

Starting point is 00:05:16 Like Robert Picton's victims, they were destined to be a sea of blurry faces that represented one giant gross injustice rather than individual lives lost. In fact, I had to dig deep and put puzzle pieces together to try and figure out which woman was murdered in which room and find a bit about who each of them was. I'll tell you, I really wasn't able to find more than a paragraph on each woman and that pained me because they were the ones I was trying to focus on, but I at least was able to place them at various locations at the Polytechnique and relayed how several of them knew each other and were there together.

Starting point is 00:05:56 I feel I actually humanized the gunman way more than his victims. When you dehumanize men, there are consequences. Or did you mean when you dehumanize men, meaning society dehumanizes men, there will be consequences? Meaning a damaged gunman will snuff out the lives of 14 women? Although I wouldn't take this as a threat to myself, I still consider it a highly problematic attitude at best. I actually think women have been far more dehumanized throughout the ages. So finally we're trying to claw our way back and it's being called dehumanizing of men.

Starting point is 00:06:34 Anyway, we've explored the only two meanings that what you tried to post could be and they were both pretty terrifying to be honest. So I've decided not to publish your response on my website, I hope you understand. So the next case is episode 27, Curtis Vey and Angela Nicholson from Saskatchewan. So this is the story of the couple in their 40s who were having an affair and how their unsuspecting spouses became the prime target of a sinister plot. Curtis Vey's wife Bridget was rightly suspicious of her husband and left a device recording on the kitchen table one day that recorded a conversation that her husband had with Angela

Starting point is 00:07:17 Nicholson, the woman he'd been having an affair with. On it, they talked about a possible plot to murder each of their respective spouses. They both pleaded not guilty in court, saying it was just words and didn't mean anything, but were found guilty of conspiracy to murder. From there, they only spent one month in jail before being allowed out on bail while their appeals were processed. And on August the 8th, 2018, the appeals court granted the pair a new trial. In a phone interview with Global News, Angela Nicholson's lawyer Ron P. Shea reiterated

Starting point is 00:07:57 that Curtis knew he was being recorded that day and the resulting conversation was an effort to rattle the cage of family members he wasn't seeing eye to eye with. The argument was that Curtis said what he said for shock value and nothing more. Aaron Fox, Curtis' lawyer, said they were miles away from taking action. The appeal decision stated that Curtis was going to teach his wife and children a lesson, but it backfired. Court documents stated that the trial judge failed to adequately charge the jury on whether Curtis and Angela had genuine intent to follow through with the murder plot, and also didn't

Starting point is 00:08:39 properly explain the relationship between circumstantial evidence and proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Angela's lawyer Ron P. Shea said that the circumstances must be simply inconsistent with any other reasonable explanation. And in this case, the appeal decision found that the trial judges charged to the jury didn't explain that they could conclude that the recorded conversation between Curtis and Angela was just vile banter. Because conspiracy to murder requires two people, both Curtis and Angela have been ordered a new trial.

Starting point is 00:09:16 Angela was reportedly delighted and Curtis was pleased. As for Angela, her lawyer said her reason for appealing was more about restoring her reputation than the jail time. She said that she and Curtis were no longer in a relationship. As for what happens now, it's in the Crown's hands. It can opt to take the case to the Supreme Court, initiate the new trial, or just decide to drop the case. Personally, I think they should initiate the new trial, because I personally don't think

Starting point is 00:09:50 that it was just vile banter. I believe that there was genuine intent and the startings of a conspiracy there. So I don't think it's fair that they be out walking around like nothing happened. So I really do hope they initiate a new trial for these two. Okay, Case 25, Victoria Shack Day from Innisfail, Alberta. You'll remember Victoria was the 23-year-old single mother who was in a car accident when she was 16 while pregnant. She gave birth to her daughter not long after and ended up as a quadriplegic.

Starting point is 00:10:24 She had incredible strength of character and overcame immense challenges to continue on with her life and be a good mom to her daughter. She got awarded a payout after her car accident and asked a family friend and financial investor, Brian Malley, to help her invest it. Turns out that he gave her shitty advice and lost it all, but instead of actually telling her, he continued to make payments out of his own pocket. Evidence shows that he purchased items to make a pipe bomb and was found guilty of building it, delivering it to her doorstep disguised as a Christmas present, and then causing her

Starting point is 00:11:02 instant death when she opened it and it blew up in her face. Brian Malley went on to appeal his first degree murder conviction, saying that the jury was not allowed to hear evidence about other possible suspects in the case. His lawyer had tried to argue that someone other than Brian may have left the bomb, citing possible drug connections in her family. Brian first went to the appeal court where his application was dismissed, saying that the trial judge was justified in his decision to not allow the evidence in question because it was based on speculation.

Starting point is 00:11:38 Brian didn't give up and took his appeal to the Supreme Court of Canada, the highest court here. In June of this year, the Supreme Court announced it would not hear the appeal. It didn't give any reasons as to why not, as per the court's usual practice. But I have to say, I am definitely relieved. Not even hearing about his appeal was worth it. The next case is Episode 24, the murder of Lynn Harper, or the Stephen Truscott Wrongful Conviction story.

Starting point is 00:12:11 I don't actually have any updates on this case, but I wanted to tell you some really cool news about Nate Hindley, the Toronto True Crime author who actually wrote this episode based on his excellent book called Stephen Truscott Decades of Injustice. He actually has a new book out now called The Boy on the Bicycle, a forgotten case of wrongful conviction in Toronto. Seven-year-old Wayne Mallette was murdered on the grounds of the CNE and a 14-year-old was jailed for it. As it turns out, it was Canada's youngest serial killer.

Starting point is 00:12:46 You'll remember I mentioned him in Episode 3 about Cody Legibokov. Anyway, it's an incredible book. I was super lucky to get an advance copy of it, so I've read it, and I can't wait to get going on Nate's new script. If you want to check out Nate Hindley's books now, Stephen Truscott Decades of Injustice or The Boy on the Bicycle, you can check the show notes for links to Amazon. Do you have a passion project that you're ready to take to the next level? Squarespace makes it easy for anyone to create an engaging web presence, grow a brand and

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Starting point is 00:15:05 the ground today. Episodes 22 and 23, Andrea Giesbrecht. No one can forget this one from Winnipeg, Manitoba, about the woman who was found storing the bodies of six infants in a U-Haul storage locker. All the infants were found to share the DNA of the mother, Andrea Giesbrecht and her husband, although he said he didn't even know she was pregnant any of those times. The case centered around whether the babies were stillborn, meaning they died before they were delivered, in which case Andrea would have been required to report each case of

Starting point is 00:15:41 death to the authorities, or if they died because she self-induced pregnancy terminations, in which case she can do what she likes with the remains and doesn't have to notify anyone. These were unable to conclude whether the infants died in utero or after delivery, but expert testimony gave details on how the likelihood of six stillbirths happening to the same mother was pretty much impossible. Andrea never testified herself at the trial and no motive was given for why she did what she did. She was found guilty of concealing infant remains and was sentenced to eight and a half years

Starting point is 00:16:20 minus time served, which ended up being seven and a half years. We left the episode off with Andrea preparing an appeal and asking that she be released on bail while her appeal made its way through the court system. In the application, her lawyer suggested that if she was released on bail, she would live at home until an appeal can be heard. It's unknown as to whether her lawyer met her home with her husband or some other new home, since it's not publicly known whether they stayed together. At the time, the judge reserved his decision.

Starting point is 00:16:55 Well, in April of this year, Andrea's application for bail was denied, with the judge essentially saying that the plan for her to live at home wasn't adequate, but if she could be released in a controlled, structured setting, he might be prepared to reconsider. Andrea's lawyer, Greg Brodsky, said he will submit another plan and place of residence for submission to see again if he can get her out on bail. So what happened to those babies is a mystery and there was a lot of discussion about this in the Canadian True Crime Discussion Group on Facebook. My personal theory on this is based on two clues.

Starting point is 00:17:33 The first is that a parole officer described her as excitable and disorganized, traits which also came across in the stories her friends told about their relationships with her. Andrea herself said she was all over the place. Plus, she was obviously motivated by a gambling addiction. Given this, I think she just didn't get around to getting those pregnancies terminated and because no one noticed, she just continued to ignore what was happening until it was too late.

Starting point is 00:18:05 She was not saving those remains, as her lawyer argued. She just didn't know what to do with them. So she rented a storage locker and tried several different methods to conceal them, from multiple bags to washing powder. Her chances of reoffending are slim to none, I think, because she really would need to get pregnant first. I guess the court can't risk sending her back home with even the remote possibility that she's going to get pregnant, because remember, she and her husband Jeremy proved themselves

Starting point is 00:18:37 not to be at all effective in preventing them in the past. As for her husband, he seems like a bit of a strange character, I'm not quite sure what to make of him. Two people that I do feel for are their teenage sons. What a thing to have to go through and in public. Episodes 19 and 20. This was the Dylan Millard and Mark Smitch latest case, the murder of Laura Babcock. It started with the disappearance of Tim Bosmer, the married father who was selling his truck

Starting point is 00:19:11 and never came home from a test drive. From there, the story emerged of an arrogant rich kid aviation heir, Dylan Millard, who bought a giant incinerator and wanted to try it out. This is all taking place in and around Toronto. His trusty sidekick, Mark Smitch from Oakville, helped him with this diabolical plan. After that, it emerged that Dylan was being charged with the murder of his ex-girlfriend Laura Babcock, who was previously presumed to have disappeared. Both the Tim Bosmer and Laura Babcock stories were equally heartbreaking.

Starting point is 00:19:47 Tim, because he was literally a decent everyday guy trying to sell a truck on Kijiji. Laura seemed like a beautiful soul who suffered some mental illness and lost her way in life, leading her into the sinister parts of Dylan Millard and Mark Smitch. In separate trials, Dylan and Mark were found guilty of the first degree murders of Tim Bosmer and Laura Babcock and sentenced to two life sentences each. At the end of the episode, I told you that Dylan on his own had now been charged with the first degree murder of his own father, Wayne Millard, who was previously thought to have died by suicide.

Starting point is 00:20:27 The judge-only trial has come and gone, but no decision has been released yet. The judge said he'll be back with his ruling in September. So soon after I return from break, I'll be preparing this next episode, and then hopefully this saga will be over. As a side note, many people commented on my use of the word dropkick to describe Mark's Mitch, due to the fact that he was an unemployed drug-dealing white rapper wannabe, and not a very good one, as you'll all have heard from the sample of his work that I played. But what I didn't actually realize was that the word dropkick was an Australian slang

Starting point is 00:21:04 term, so many of you Canadians and Americans were left scratching your heads about what it was that I meant. Many people contacted me to ask what it meant. Some people asking if I meant the wrestling move, or some band called the dropkick Murphy's, who I've never heard of. Basically, the most diplomatic way for me to describe a dropkick is someone who is not very successful in life. Think Ricky from Trailer Park Boys, I'm not even going to say Julian because he did at

Starting point is 00:21:34 least attempt to open up some legitimate businesses. I have a question for you. Do you know what a demi-glaze sauce is? Yeah, neither did I. But this week, HelloFresh insisted that I attempt to cook one as part of their recipe for thyme demi-glaze pork with roasted sweet potatoes and broccoli. Now I was a little skeptical of my capabilities, but hey, when you have a neat paper bag in the fridge that contains everything you need to cook a meal, plus a recipe card with step-by-step

Starting point is 00:22:14 instructions and pictures, you really have to give it a go. Whether you're a great cook who is short on time, you're just looking to be a better cook or learn new recipes or heaven forbid, a crappy cook who is also short on time like me, you can rely on HelloFresh. They send you tried and true curated recipes each week to create delicious meals at home. We're actually saving money by not getting so many unhealthy takeouts now and also benefiting from the fact that the meals contain no processed foods. You don't need to be home to collect the box when it arrives.

Starting point is 00:22:53 It's insulated and has ice packs to keep everything cold. And I just pick it up from my porch when I get home. And flexible subscriptions mean you can pause or change your preferences at any time. Now it is time for a special deal. Right now you can get 50% off the cost of your first box by visiting hellofresh.ca.crime. And when you're ready to purchase, just use the code crime. So just go to hellofresh.ca.crime and use the coupon code crime. The next case is Robert Picton, also known as the case that nearly broke me.

Starting point is 00:23:41 I made a couple of mistakes with this case. A few geographical areas were incorrect. Like the things I decided to call the Agassiz Mountains, which I realized are not mountains but only next to mountains. I was also schooled on calling that ditch by the side of the road a slough. It's actually pronounced slough. And I also mispronounced the name of Picton victim Heather Chinook. My biggest mistake though was my choice to use the word Aboriginal throughout this series.

Starting point is 00:24:12 I only received two complaints about this but that usually means that many more were offended but chose not to contact me about it. When I was researching the case, some of Picton's victims were referred to as First Nations or Cree or other terms to denote Indigenous. And others were called Aboriginal or Indigenous and I couldn't find out any more about what exactly they identified as. In trying to be fair to them all, I asked a contact close to the case, what is the best umbrella term to use for First People to Canada?

Starting point is 00:24:47 And they said Aboriginal was a good word and that they were happy to be identified as this. Great, I found my answer, Aboriginal it was. But I've come to learn that it's very much a personal thing and I assumed that asking one person would get me the correct answer but really it was only their correct answer. It was my mistake to use this word for everyone. So if I were to do this case again, I would use their group of Indigenous people for example First Nations if it was publicly identified. And for everyone else for whom I couldn't find a group, I would replace the word Aboriginal

Starting point is 00:25:24 with Indigenous. I was sent a really cool video from CBC News which spells it all out really nicely. I'll link it in the show notes. Speaking of Robert Pickton, this year the media have drawn strong comparisons between he and Bruce MacArthur, the Toronto landscaper who was found to have murdered local men and buried them in plant pots and other locations at the houses of his clients. The police have recovered the remains and charged him with the murders of eight men so far. They are continuing to dig up the previous residences of Bruce MacArthur as well as the

Starting point is 00:26:01 gardens of many of his landscaping clients. And the public are definitely bracing themselves for a possible word of more victims. My MO on this podcast is only covering cases that have been through the court system. So while many of you have requested that I cover this case, I need to let you know that I'll be waiting for it to get through the court system before I even think about it. Only because I like to have all the details. I'm not good at speculation and this is a pretty fact-based podcast. But if you are unfamiliar with the details of this case and wanted a good discussion

Starting point is 00:26:37 of where this crime is at, I recommend listening to True Crime Garage's multi-part series which started back in March. Episode 6, Rina Verk Rina Verk was the 14-year-old from Victoria, BC who, in 1997, was lured under a bridge by a gang of teenagers and attacked by them. One of them felt guilty and called it off and, as Rina walked herself home, bruised and bloodied, she was followed by two of the teens who then dragged her to the water and murdered her. These two teens were 15-year-old Kelly Allard and 16-year-old Warren Glowatsky.

Starting point is 00:27:18 They were both found guilty of second-degree murder. Warren Glowatsky was sentenced to life in prison, served 13 years and was released on full parole in 2010. In prison, he realized that he was of Métis heritage, which, side note, I pronounced incorrectly as Métis. Métis is a group recognized as one of Canada's first people. Big listen there and so sorry to the Métis people who are listening. So through discovering his heritage while in prison, Warren Glowatsky demonstrated considerable

Starting point is 00:27:53 remorse and a willingness for self-reflection and his full release after 13 years was supported by Rina Verk's family. The same can't be said for Kelly Allard. She continued to deny her involvement or show any kind of remorse and caused trouble while in jail, beating people up and being caught with traces of drugs. Finally, in 2016, 19 years after she played that starring role in the murder of Rina Verk, Kelly started to show some remorse. She admitted that she was responsible for Rina's death and had decided to be truthful

Starting point is 00:28:30 now after much soul-searching. The parole board said they just didn't believe her and to try again. Several months later, Kelly was granted private family visits or conjugal visits with her boyfriend who was in a nearby jail but due out on day parole. Through these visits, Kelly got pregnant. In early 2017, she became a new mother to a baby boy who lived with her in a special nursery program in the prison. Kelly went back before the parole board saying her baby had given her a new outlook on life

Starting point is 00:29:05 and that she was finally ready. She was granted escorted day releases to go to doctor's appointments and parenting classes with her baby. And this is where we left off. I do have two updates for you. The first is that on November 2017, 20 years after Rina's death, Kelly Allard was granted day parole for six months under the stipulation that she first complete a residential treatment program for substance abuse before moving to a halfway house.

Starting point is 00:29:38 After six months, the parole board will review the decision. Kelly said that she wanted to co-parent her young son with his father, who was also out of jail at this time. Although she said if he used drugs or got into any more trouble, she was prepared to parent her son by herself. I'm assuming she's probably likely to be released any day now, although the media has been quiet about her for over six months. The other update on the Rina Verk case is a very sad one.

Starting point is 00:30:09 If you remember, Rina's parents Manjeet and Sue Mann Verk were tireless campaigners in the fight against bullying and did a lot of speaking at schools and various community events to raise awareness about the cause. They were called upon for their insights during political conversations on criminal justice reform and were awarded BC's highest honor for community safety and crime prevention. But sadly, in June of this year, Rina's mother Sue Mann was at a cafe and choked on something she was eating. Her airways were blocked for several minutes and she was left brain dead.

Starting point is 00:30:46 She was taken to hospital but tragically died three days later. An editorial for Times Colonist quote, Sue Mann Verk lived through the horrific death of her daughter and through it found the best in herself. With her passing, the community has lost a soul of kindness. Sue Mann Verk was 58 years old. My last episode is episodes one and two, Paul Bernardo and Carla Hamulka. I don't think I need to go into detail about much with this case, arguably the most well

Starting point is 00:31:21 known modern crime case from Canada. Paul Bernardo was the Scarborough rapist, then he met Carla Hamulka and together they drugged and murdered Carla's little sister, Tammy Hamulka and then drugged, abducted and murdered two teenage girls, Leslie Mahaffey and Kristen French. June of 2018 marked 25 years since Carla made her deal with a devil that saw her serve only 12 years in jail before being released on full parole. At the end of the episode, released in February 2017, we last left off with Carla being a stay-at-home mum of three, married to her former lawyer and living in a suburb of Montreal.

Starting point is 00:32:04 In June of 2017, local media took photos of Carla as she dropped her kids off at their private elementary school. And not long after that, the media learned that she'd actually volunteered at the school, including supervising a field trip and bringing her dog into the classroom for the students to see. Obviously, there was huge public outrage leading to the school issuing a statement that didn't mention Carla's name, but said that it had heard and listened to the concerns of parents and wouldn't be allowing anyone with a criminal record to volunteer in any capacity on school

Starting point is 00:32:40 grounds. Interestingly, this decision is entirely up to the discretion of the individual school. As for Paul Bernardo, he was eligible for a day parole hearing in September of 2017, but decided to postpone the hearing until October of this year, with several media commentators saying he was just being cruel to the families of the victims. Tim Danson, the lawyer for the families, said, quote, Paul Bernardo's actually had some four or five, maybe even six, hearings that he then postponed. But each time the family has to prepare for the victim impact statements, the whole process

Starting point is 00:33:23 has really been tearing them apart. Then, in February of 2018, Paul was found in possession of a homemade weapon called a shank made up of a screw and a pen. In April, he appeared via video link for the hearing dressed in a blue t-shirt. Rosie DiMano, columnist for the Toronto Star, wrote that she went to attend the hearing to see what Paul looked like now, saying that she'd hoped that the years had been unkind to him. Unfortunately, not, she wrote.

Starting point is 00:33:56 She said at 53, Paul still had the same boyish face. He asked the judge if he could have the weapons trial before his parole hearing in October, and the trial date was set for October the 5th. Obviously, a guilty verdict on his weapons charge will have an effect on his eligibility for parole, which is already slim to none because of his dangerous offender status. So, that's about it in terms of case updates. If you have anything else, please feel free to send it to me, and as always, I thank you for listening and also for all the kind reviews and messages of support that you send me.

Starting point is 00:34:37 It really does keep me going. I'm due to be back with my next proper case-based episode, September 15th. Right now, I'm not sure exactly what case I'm covering, but coming over the next couple of months will be the latest Dellen Millard trial, the new book introducing Canada's youngest-ever serial killer, and a couple more surprises that I have up my sleeve. Okay, thanks so much, bye.

Canadian True Crime - Case Updates, Mistakes, Opinions :)

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