Canadian True Crime - Introducing: Pretendians

Episode Date: May 14, 2024

Today we're pleased to share with you the first episode of Pretendians - a riveting new podcast series that looks at some of the most prominent and successful Indigenous artists, leaders and professor...s who all have something in common: they aren’t Indigenous. There are hundreds of cases of Indigenous identity fraud that we know about, and likely thousands that we do not. So why do these so-called “pretendians” do it? How do they pull it off? And what happens when they are exposed? In each episode of Pretendians, co-hosts Robert Jago (Kwantlen First Nation and Nooksack Indian Tribe) and Angel Ellis (Muscogee (Creek) Nation) reveal unbelievable stories of audacious fraudsters and investigate the complex phenomenon of Indigenous identity theft.We hope you enjoy this episode, and we'll see you soon!Subscribe to Pretendians or follow it in your favourite podcast app. Hosted on Acast. See for more information.

Discussion (0)
Starting point is 00:00:00 Hi there, today I've got a brand new podcast recommendation for you about fraudsters and scammers of a different kind, Pretendians. That's the name of the podcast launching today from Canada Land Media. It's also the name often given to people who falsely claim Indigenous heritage for personal or professional gain. This is a topic that I've kind of taken a special interest in behind the scenes because as you might have noticed, Canadian headlines have exploded in recent years with notable investigations into a number of well-known film directors, authors, artists and musicians and even highly educated academics and industry leaders who built their success on claims of indigenous heritage.
Starting point is 00:00:47 But when those claims were scrutinized, they quickly fell apart. So why do these people do it and how were they able to get away with it? Pretendians looks into all of this and more with co-hosts Robert Jago of Kwantlen First Nation and Nooksack Indian Tribe and Angel Alice of Muskogee Creek Nation who share unbelievable stories while investigating the complex phenomenon of indigenous identity fraud. I've already listened to the first episode in the series and I have to say that not only are the co-hosts extremely entertaining but this first story is wild, like beyond wild.
Starting point is 00:01:27 And I'm excited to share the episode with you right now. It's called Interview with a Pretendian. So you're about to hear Robert Jago interview the self-described leader of a Quebec group described as one of the biggest pretendian groups of all time. Like I said, wild. Take a listen and don't forget to subscribe to Pretendians
Starting point is 00:01:49 so you don't miss any more of these stories. More info and links are in the show notes. Hello and welcome to Pretendians. This is a show where we talk about people who impersonate us natives and explain why they're doing it and who it hurts. Hes jes dongo, Angel Ellis Jehojifkidos. Hello, I'm Angel Ellis, a writer and a citizen of the Muskogee Creek Nation located in Oklahoma.
Starting point is 00:02:12 Are we doing that? Yeah, you got to get all sacred with it. Anything. Eswai'o te siya'ya, Robert Jago te skwee. My name is Robert Jago and I'm a writer from the Kwantlen First Nation and Noxack Indian tribe in the Pacific Northwest. So this show is all about pretendians, pretend Indians. It's a pretty new term and I know that even a lot of native people don't know it. It's like one of those social media things that's kind of taken over and got into the press.
Starting point is 00:02:38 So many people pretend to be Indian. You will not believe how many of these fakers are out there. We found pretendians in Hollywood, pretendians in government, even pretendians in prison. In every episode we'll tell you a wild story about who they hoaxed and what they got away with. Robert, off the top of your mind, who are some of the pretendians that you can think of? Do you know who Rachel Dolezal is? Maybe? Rachel Dolezal, the NAACP chapter leader accused of lying about her race. Yeah, I am black.
Starting point is 00:03:09 I haven't had a DNA test. She was clearly a blonde lady, but she told everybody she was black and she, you know, got a spray tan and put in cornrows and stuff. Oh, I do remember this. Before she did that, she was Native. Really? I mean, she was never Native, but before she did that, she tried out being a pretendee in first.
Starting point is 00:03:28 Oh my God. Rachel used to call herself Faith Eagle Nebula. What about Elizabeth Warren? Yeah, she's like the daughter of the Cherokee princess or something like that. Pocahontas, she of the great tribal heritage. What tribe is it? Let me think about that one. I am sorry for harm I have caused.
Starting point is 00:03:50 When I was growing up, those were our family stories. Some other famous ones recently, I mean, Buffy St. Marie. Oh gosh, Buffy broke my heart a little bit. A little bit, yeah. That hurt. I don't know how or when she started to create her story, but she's just raised in a Caucasian family. I mean, that's one that I never would have guessed. What makes the mob crowd, like, go with it?
Starting point is 00:04:21 I don't understand. It's kind of wild. I mean, how many people are really listening to natives when we talk about anything? Oh, that's true. Pretendians as a story are really important right now where we're rebuilding our nations and making serious strides as people. Because with that rising, there's opportunity.
Starting point is 00:04:38 And it seems that like for every three opportunities, pretendians take two of them. So I'm definitely not a pretendian, but Robert, how do I know you're not? You can look at my credit score. Oh shoot! I've got the sacred laminated card. I've got one from Canada and one from the States because in Canada, I'm registered as a status Indian at the Kwantlen
Starting point is 00:05:05 First Nation. And in the States, I'm enrolled with the Nooksak Indian tribe. That's me. What about you? How do you know that I'm Native? Well, I have my sacred laminate card that enrolls me as a citizen of the Muskogee Nation. Just pull out the card, right? Registered. Angel at a minimum, and I mean at a bare minimum, you would hope that people would actually ask to see a sacred laminate card before giving somebody a job or another opportunity that's been set aside for a Native person. These cards are important when it comes to figuring out who is legit and who is a pretendee.
Starting point is 00:05:39 Not every truly Indigenous person has one, but these days, only truly Indigenous people can get one. So imagine the damage it would do if someone started printing up fake Indian status cards. Today's episode is about a man who did something a lot worse than merely pretending to be indigenous. This guy isn't simply a fake Indian. According to many Mohawk leaders and others, he's a fake Indian chief. And in that role, he's created tens of thousands of pretendings by sending them fake Indian status cards that look almost like the real thing.
Starting point is 00:06:08 Angel, we're not going to just talk about this guy. I'm going to talk to him. But first you need to know who he is. So allow me to tell you all about his excellency, Grand Chief Guillaume Carle. Guillaume Carle. Guillaume Carle. His majesty, Guillaume Carle, whatever he calls himself. Who refers to himself as his excellency.
Starting point is 00:06:27 Guillaume Carle was claiming to be Algonquin at one time, another time he was claiming to be a Huron. Prove to us, what's your language, what's your culture? I can tell him what mine is. The people that don't believe I'm native, they can kiss my Indian ass. From Canada land, this is Pretendience. It just happened to me I am like an Indian. I guess I'm an Indian. I am of an ancient son.
Starting point is 00:07:18 Guillaume Carle was born around 1960. I found very little information out there about his childhood or his upbringing. There doesn't seem to be any Native community that said anything about knowing him or his family. We did trace his family tree though back to his great grandparents. From what we can find, his family are all French Canadians. His great grandparents were dairy farmers in a small town north of Ottawa. One of his grandfathers seemed to have been fairly wealthy and found at a hospital. His other grandfather was a cop. We found a wedding photo in an old newspaper that shows his parents Gaston and Pierrette. They're a very like handsome couple, very Caucasian. It looks like Shirley Temple and Norm MacDonald. Oh my gosh, it does look like Shirley Temple and
Starting point is 00:07:59 Norm MacDonald got together. Once he reaches adulthood, Guillaume Carle joins the military, where he serves as a military police officer. He tries his luck as a country music singer, he studies computer science, and he models for a department store. Here, Angel, take a look at him. Very much wearing the leather vest and the beaded necklace. He's got like the ponytail braid. He also runs a number of technology companies. It wasn't until he's in his 40s that he shows up in any public record I can find presenting himself as a Native person. And when he goes for it, he really goes for it. He runs for leadership of the Native Alliance of Quebec,
Starting point is 00:08:33 a group that represents Native people who do not live on reserves. I'm pretty familiar with off-reservation Natives. There were a lot of programs in the U.S. that intentionally took took natives off the reserves. That's not pulling any alarm bells for me. Keep in mind, this is a legitimate group he's working for at this point. How does he come from nowhere and win the support of natives to become a leader in a native organization? Well, he campaigns on the strength of his education. He says he has a PhD. He boasts of his many university degrees and his business background and he wins.
Starting point is 00:09:11 What's up with the degrees? These degrees are from a school called Ashford University. It's one of those online universities. He says that he did a BA, an MA, and a PhD in computer science over a period of three years. When a reporter from LaPresse questioned Karl about them, he said that he didn't need to attend classes, but that he did publish a thesis and, unfortunately, it's no longer possible to access it. Three years later, he's engulfed in controversy. He's under audit by his own organization for mismanaging their money.
Starting point is 00:09:42 He's accused of awarding contracts to his own company and not telling the whole truth about those university degrees. According to press reports, he gets driven out of the Alliance in 2005. The guy who replaces Carl calls him a wannabe who can't prove his native heritage. Now this is the first time on record that someone's accused Guillaume Carl of being an imposter
Starting point is 00:10:01 and it won't be the last. So after he's kicked out of the Native lines of Quebec, Karl and his supporters start their own group and call it the Confederation of Aboriginal People. This one is not recognized by the government of Canada or any First Nation. This new group has no elections. Karl's supporters give him the title, His Excellency, Grand Chief, and install him for life. Karl says that he's going to be chief of all the non-status Indians out there,
Starting point is 00:10:28 all the indigenous people who don't live on reserves and who don't have Indian status cards from the Government of Canada. His idea of what it takes to be indigenous is that all you need is the native gene. He says any amount of DNA makes you a native. To a precision of 100%, the precision results are non-debatable. He has the Indian gene in him. a native. He estimates that there are over 500,000 Indigenous people in Canada who will join his group and start paying him fees. He starts pulling theatrical stunts.
Starting point is 00:11:00 He rides on a horseback through downtown Ottawa with 500 protesters to the mansion of the Governor General. If you don't know who that is, Angel, that's the official representative of the Queen. If and when you get an audience with the Governor General Johnson. Or the Queen directly. Or the Queen directly. What is your request? We need our land back. The 95% of Canada, we're not going to leave until we get it done. It doesn't happen, but he does get an extraordinary amount of media attention.
Starting point is 00:11:28 Does he get good press? At first, yes, but it's not all positive. And in light of some negative stories, he decides to sue the media for an absurd $930 million for allegedly defaming him. And he argues that he's being persecuted in the same way that Martin Luther King Jr., Nelson Mandela, and the Jewish victims the Holocaust were persecuted. The judge throws out the case. It doesn't stop with that though.
Starting point is 00:11:55 He starts his own brand new First Nation. He calls it the Mekinak Tribe, and says anyone with even 1% native DNA can be a member. Now this group is totally unrecognized and members don't get any of the rights or benefits the status Indians are entitled to, such as hunting and fishing rights or different tax benefits. To get that stuff, you need to be from a real recognized First Nation and have an actual legitimate government-issued status card. And most of his members can't get those. So he starts issuing his own status cards, fake status cards, according to CBC News. Here's what an actual government-issued status card looks like.
Starting point is 00:12:32 Those with status can be entitled to a range of benefits, including tax exemptions. Now this is the card being passed off to unsuspecting shopkeepers. That's a fake card. These are all fake cards. They're pretty well done. The CBC does this incredible undercover investigation. Here's a fake card. These are all fake cards. They're pretty well done. The CBC does this incredible undercover investigation. Here's how that goes. Their reporter, a very white lady, goes to Chief Karl's group, posing as someone who
Starting point is 00:12:52 wants to join it. She's charged $250 for a DNA test that's administered by Karl's own vice chief. To get into the tribe, you have to pay and you have to do a DNA test. You don't have to like prove matrilineal descent from that tribe or anything like that. That is the shape of it. Yes. And about that DNA test. Okay, first, all of this is caught on hidden camera. And the vice chief tells the reporter not to worry. Everybody gets into the group. Everybody's test comes back positive for native DNA. Do you ever have people take the DNA test
Starting point is 00:13:27 and they just come back non-native? I never saw it so far. Once that happens, you pay $80 more for your card. And according to Carl, over 50,000 people have done this. This is absolutely insane. A disgruntled former member of Carl's group sees that something's wrong with the tests. And so he decides to swab his Chihuahua.
Starting point is 00:13:46 He sends in his Chihuahua's DNA to the same company that Guillaume Carl used for the membership of the confederation. And guess what? Is his dog a rez dog? His dog is 20% rez dog. It comes back 20% indigenous, 8% Abenaki, and 12% Mohawk. More media investigations are done into Carl and his organization, this time into an investment scheme. The police investigate and fraud charges are laid against His Excellency, Grand Chief Guillaume Carl. And then it gets even worse for him.
Starting point is 00:14:18 In 2019, Guillaume Carl is charged with three sex crimes for an incident that took place decades earlier with a 12 year old boy. And he's convicted. And that's it, that's where the record ends. There are no news stories about what became of the fraud charges against him. And no record of him going to jail
Starting point is 00:14:36 or being sentenced for sex crimes. Nobody seems to have spoken to him in a few years. Which, Angel, is why I was so surprised when he actually responded to my email and said he'd give me an interview. Oh my God, like I'm just so curious. What are you going to ask him about? Where do you start?
Starting point is 00:14:55 Well, what would you ask him about? The first thing I really need to know is how is the guy walking around? It's financial fraud, identity fraud, and sexual misconduct with a minor. That's insane. I think that's where I want to end up. But first, I want to fill in the gaps about his background. Angel, this is an incredibly tough person to interview. There are so many court cases. I've been buried reading about this guy forever. And I can't get to the bottom of anything with him. But I don't know where he's from.
Starting point is 00:15:26 I don't know what his childhood was. I don't know when he decided to become an Indian. It's been years since he sat down for a proper interview, and that happened before all of this stuff with the sexual charges and the fraud. I want to use this time to have him stand here after everything seems to have fallen apart and explain to me how he got himself in this position. He's obviously someone who can manipulate press but maybe he'll want to explain his story now that it's all kind of unraveled. Maybe he's ready to go on record and
Starting point is 00:15:59 spill it all. Hello, how are you doing today? Well, I'm doing okay. So, before I begin, what's the appropriate way to refer to you? Is Chief Karl the correct one? Well, no. The proper way would be Grand Chief Karl. Understood. Okay, so I'll go with Grand Chief Karl. I appreciate that. Grand Chief Karl, I'd like to begin just by learning a bit more about you. Can we start from the beginning? Can you tell me where you grew up?
Starting point is 00:16:31 You know, I'm very, very different from anybody that I think you'll meet because I was raised in the forest. And I was raised in the forest in Maniwaki on 31 Mount Lake. Are you talking about a log cabin out there in the bush? No, no, yes, but I was raised alone and I was raised a lot by my grandfather and they showed me the responsibility that we have for the water, for the forest, for the animals,
Starting point is 00:17:04 for the fish and so on. I can't fish for the water, for the forest, for the animals, for the fish and so on. I can't fish for the rod, but I would fish with a net or a spear. I was alone, but I was initiated. I was shown the real way of living, the real way of understanding, for example, entrance of a forest has a very, very specific way to enter, to be part of it, to be recognized by it, to be recognized by all the animals and so on. This was really indigenous Aboriginal way of living. For example, I was not able
Starting point is 00:17:49 to lie. I don't even know how to lie. Because when you live alone, when you live and there's not a lot of people there in the forest, you never lie. Why would you invent something that's false when you're alone with yourself? Okay. At home, what language did you speak? Out in the forest, I spoke French. And indigenous. The native language. I'm not that familiar with Maniwaki.
Starting point is 00:18:23 What is the native language there? Well, Maniwaki. What is the native language there? Well, Maniwaki is in Algonquin territory. So I speak a bit of Algonquin and I speak a bit of Mohawk. My mother was Mohawk and my father was Algonquin. What specific nation are they from? I know Algonquin is vast. The question you're asking I'm going to answer. My mother and father don't come from a reserve. Before the arrival of the Europeans, it did not exist a reserve. And my parents don't come from the reserve life. They could not live there. And they
Starting point is 00:19:00 didn't impose to me to live there. The real life of Native people is not on reserve because there's nothing there. There's no animals, there's no traditional, nothing. Everything that's on reserve is not native. I'm from Kwantlen First Nation and we have all of our resources with us. We're fishermen. We live on two rivers. Our mountain reserves have our elk in it. So I do disagree with your portrayal of reserves as nothings. We have everything that we've always had there. So is your family still tied to one of the Mohawk clans? My family, yes. Which Mohawk clan is your family a part of?
Starting point is 00:19:46 Well, Aquasatsling, I guess would be where I spent the most time. And my two boys each carry a sacred pipe. And they know the ways. Just just returning to the clan thing is your your mother from the turtle clan or a bear clan? Like, you know, on Mohawk, they have all these different clan thing. Is your mother from the turtle clan or a bear clan? You know on Mohawk they have all these different clan houses. I know that, yes. So which one is it? Turtle clan. I see, okay. So from what I understand, you're quite young and you're living in the forest in Manawaki and you're living in the forest in Maniwaki, and then you go to Gatineau for school, is that right?
Starting point is 00:20:26 Yes. I went to the white man's school, and I finished with a PhD in computer science. After school, I understand that you then went into the army. I went into the army, I became a police officer, and I resigned from that because I could not face the rest of my life, giving tickets and arresting people and so on. Everything that I'm telling you is not a lie.
Starting point is 00:20:59 It's the truth. So it's important to say, really, honestly, the minimum that I owe you is the truthness of what I say. Okay. Now I understand that you ran for leadership to become the Grand Chief. Why did you choose to run at that time? Because they approached me. And they came to me because I knew a lot of Aboriginal traditional affairs, the real things. So they came to see me and I had done some serious work for them. So they came to see me and they said, you know, we would like you to become our next Grand Chief.
Starting point is 00:21:46 And I said, I have my own business, you know? So after four months, they convinced me and I gave my company to my wife and I became the Grand Chief. Your style as Grand Chief was very different from what I've seen of any other person in that kind of leadership role. The way I was shown, the way I was raised is very, very different from anybody. For me, the 633 chiefs are paid. I was not paid because money is a way of control that was brought
Starting point is 00:22:30 here. And my ancestors that did not agree with the reserve life and the teachings, and they were all killed. Like they killed the buffalo. You know, being Native is not just being on a reserve because when we go on the other side, there will not be any money. I understand that you charge members $80 for their cards and you have 50,000 members apparently. Your company is very successful. I see $7.5 million just in federal contracts. Are you a wealthy man? Well, before the floods I used to be. The floods river three times and I had to rebuild all my homes. rebuilt all my homes. So I'm not as wealthy as I was, but you know what? Wealth has nothing to do with life.
Starting point is 00:23:31 So your vice chief at the confederation, they were captured on camera by CBC telling a journalist that every person who takes the DNA test is found to have native DNA and they get a status card. And then she also promised them that, you know, they don't have to pay tax at Walmart and stuff like that. What are the safeguards at your organization to prevent that sort of fraud? So the woman that said that she was junior, and she did not really understand what she was saying. Okay, it does not mean that CBC are telling the truth. We can ask, we can't ask a German shepherd to be a wolf and we cannot ask the wolf to be a German shepherd.
Starting point is 00:24:25 But even though they look similar to one another, their way of thinking is exceptionally different. It's interesting that you bring up a German shepherd. In the CBC reporting, they pointed a former member who submitted the DNA for his dog, a Chihuahua, and the company that did the testing that the confederation uses, said that the Chihuahua was 20% indigenous.
Starting point is 00:24:50 The DNA that was supplied to the confederation was not the same DNA papers, examination, that was recognized by the company. From what I understand is that the company involved is Viagard Accumetrix. Is the confederation still working with them? No. And I don't know why because when I had my four strokes, I realized that I had to take care of my health because it was very, very serious.
Starting point is 00:25:27 Two people tried to kill me. They busted my head through my brain. They broke my jaw. They broke my nose. So I'm taking really, really, really good medical care of myself because I didn't want to end up not being able to walk, not being able to speak, not being able to do anything, but they taught me back. They taught me to walk, they taught me to be able to speak
Starting point is 00:26:00 and they taught me to be able to go to the washroom, for example, because I was not able to. So why did the DNA test the people not, not to continue? I don't know, because I'm taken really, really peculiar and the specific help of my health. peculiar and the specific help of my health. So outside of the DNA, there was a court case and during that court case, they submitted a report by a historian who said that your ancestry is all from Europe. That history is quite compelling, isn't it? It isn't, because I did not supply a DNA test to be part of the organization.
Starting point is 00:26:51 I supplied my status card. I supplied a booklet of where I'm Native and the Native blood I have in me, you know, nobody benefited from being native. I supplied them genealogy documents from the federal government to say that I was native. So you know, they don't want me to be native. I don't give a shit. I don't care because you know what? What I know about natives and what they know on reserve is completely, completely, erratically different. And they'll pay for that.
Starting point is 00:27:40 So after all of these media reports that alleged that you made money selling fake status cards, you were charged with fraud. I was charged with fraud. Did I ever do fraud? Absolutely not. But the federal government, and they want to claim I did fraud, they cannot find me guilty of fraud because I never did any. But you know what?
Starting point is 00:28:08 I can't wait until we go on the other side because they're going to have to pay for that too. Now, one case that did go before a judge was the sexual assault charge against you. According to news reports, you were convicted of that crime, and it was, I believe, against a 12-year-old boy. When I went to court that week, my blood sugar went at 26.6. I was transported to the hospital. I wasn't even mentally there.
Starting point is 00:28:38 It was like they were speaking Chinese. And you know what? They can find me guilty of what they want. Why would I lie? Was there ever a day in court where they gave you a sentence? No. The court will have to cancel their judgment because if you're mentally not there, you can't defend yourself. The legal system has deemed you a sex offender and charged you also with fraud. A geneticist called the DNA test that your organization used comical. The Mohawk authorities have called your status cards fake and called your group fraudulent. And a genealogical report
Starting point is 00:29:24 that was entered into evidence said that you came exclusively from European stock. Me? I understand the Mohawk Council at Akwasazne has said that you're totally unaffiliated with them. The Mohawk from Akwasazne are not Native people. of course ask me, are not Native people. On a personal note, as an Indigenous person, a lot of what you're saying doesn't align with what I would understand as Indigenous. Does it matter to you that there are so many Native people
Starting point is 00:29:58 who have stood up and questioned your Indigenous identity? You know, they can question all they want. Bottom line is, I am what I am. The people that don't believe I'm Native, they can kiss my Indian ass. What you know and what I know is completely different. And the traditions that you were born with that were shown to you are very different from mine. And I don't
Starting point is 00:30:26 believe that you could live in Quebec. I lived in Quebec for 10 years. No, you never lived here. You existed here. Because when we go on the other side, I will meet you. And when we go on the other side, you will have to apologize. Grand Chief Carl, from what I understand of my culture and beliefs, I don't think we'll be going to the same place on the other side. But I would like to thank you very much for your time and for answering my questions. It's a pleasure. Fucking smooth as butter, Robert.
Starting point is 00:31:07 How do you do it? I bit my tongue a lot. He didn't seem like he had trouble comprehension wise. He didn't have like speech issues, but I mean, he wouldn't lie. He's from the trees. The wind doesn't lie, Angel. The wind doesn't lie. He's from the trees. The wind doesn't lie, Angel.
Starting point is 00:31:23 The wind doesn't lie. To me, it sounded like the exact stereotypical mystical bullshit that everybody kind of assumes is a part of native identity. It's like that that romantical kind of, oh, the wolves raised me and I'm brothers with them and shit like that. But he's so anti-community consensus that that's where it just separates from me. To say that if you're on a reservation, you're not a native, he's out there saying,
Starting point is 00:31:55 what you were taught is bullshit and my knowledge is the authority. And that's very un-native. Native communities are communities and you can't be part of a community unless you are living with other people. What he's describing isn't being an authentic native, what he's describing is being like a Sasquatch. That's literally what it means. It means wild man of the forest and that's not that's not a human thing to be. There's like this big European tradition of like
Starting point is 00:32:22 wild men who go into the forest. It's not our thing. When he says that the reserves didn't exist, that's about the only fucking thing I think he got right. However, what he missed was the land was there and the people used the land and lived in a relationship with the land. He's talking about reserves like they're like a zoo or something. a relationship with the land. He's talking about reserves like they're like a zoo or something. My rez is built on another village we used to own, and so are all the other reses around here. His conception of what a reserve is is wrong.
Starting point is 00:32:53 I mean, the Mohawks lived in towns with big palisades around them and stuff. He's a weirdly smart guy. I lived with the trees. My friends were squirrels and groundhogs. Well, I mean, we can't double check with a groundhog. Can't double check with a squirrel. That's a huge red flag for me. There's witness to my life. And his story doesn't have that. But even though we can't ask trees, he did give us the names of his family. So his mother is Pirat Presso and he says that she's part of the Turtle Clan at Ganasatake. So that's a place and that's a real thing. There's a person there who
Starting point is 00:33:35 is also a member of the Turtle Clan. She was the woman who was basically in charge of everything. And as a member of the Turtle Clan, we reached out to her and she has no memory or record of Pirat or any of the Pristos. That's like if your uncle or your aunt said, I don't know you. Every person who is actually a member of a clan are family, man. Like that's extended family and they know each other. As for the other side of his family, there's his father Gaston, this specific place he mentioned, Manawaki. We can't find any record of an Algonquin named Gaston Carl living there.
Starting point is 00:34:11 What we did find, as mentioned earlier, are extensive records of Gaston and his dad and the other Carls living for generations, mainly in and around the Ottawa and Gatineau areas in urban centers and doing stuff that natives wouldn't be doing at that era. You're not going to see a lot of native cops in the 1940s and 50s. If you look at the darkest point of native oppression in our history, his family's thriving. It's weird for him to then
Starting point is 00:34:40 appear after all these generations of success in the white world and now he's the most native person there is. I want to talk about his health troubles. I'm not sure if you noticed, but whenever we're talking, if it gets a little bit tight, the health issues come up. And at the risk of not seeming compassionate, they seem very convenient, these health troubles. As you heard, he relies on his health issues to explain why he was convicted of sex crimes. His mind wasn't with him because his sugar was high and why he didn't take action
Starting point is 00:35:11 with these discredited DNA tests. He was quite ill that day. He doesn't know why he's not been sentenced. He says he's going to get thrown out any day now. But I reached out to the Crown Prosecutor to actually find out what's going on. The Crown Prosecutor Angel is the Canadian equivalent of the District Attorney in the US system. That person in Gatineau, her name is Andre Anne Tremblay. She said that the reason he's not been sentenced is because first he changed lawyers and then the lawyer he changed to had some health problems. And those health problems prevented the sentencing from taking place. He's gonna get sentenced very soon,
Starting point is 00:35:48 and he's gonna go away very soon. I also asked about the fraud charges, and Madame Tremblay said that those are still active, and they're now ready to go to court. I think we just need to say it. I think, is this guy a Partindian? 100%, yes. And this is an important thing for people to keep in mind
Starting point is 00:36:06 as we start our journey with this show. I can't tell whether Guillaume Carle has any Indian blood at all, and I don't care because DNA tests are not how you determine if someone is native. First nations are first and foremost nations. So for example, you are Irish if you're a citizen of Ireland. If you happen to have an Irish grandpa, that's great. Go drink some green beer on St. Paddy's Day. You've got a wonderful story. God bless you. But only the sovereign nation of Ireland gets to
Starting point is 00:36:38 decide who its citizens are. And the same goes for First Nations. There is no recognized First Nation that recognizes Guillaume Carle as their citizen. So I'm very confident in saying that this guy is a pretendian. And that's our show. Robert, on our next episode, we talk about people who pretend to be native in the last place you'd expect it. Prison. Today's episode was researched and written by Robert Jago. And hosted by me and Angel Alice. Our executive producer and editor is Jesse Brown. Additional production from Caleb Thompson. Julie Shapiro is our contributing editor. Canada Land's editor-in-chief is Karen Pulezzi. Thanks for listening. in the forest of a log.
Starting point is 00:38:09 Under the lava.

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