Canadian True Crime - Major Case Updates: 2024 [2]

Episode Date: August 6, 2024

[Part 2 of 2] Featuring interviews with survivors Josh Whiteway and Kerri Kehoe, we continue to look back at cases we've covered with major updates in past years.Approximate timestamps (Give or take a... few minutes depending on ad breaks)1:30 Lush & Whiteway Families car crash (update from Josh Whiteway)9:00 Jacob Hoggard updates16:00 The Kingston Cases (update from Kerri Kehoe re Richard Charles Joyce)30:00 Legacy Christian Academy and Mile Two Church Scandal #legacyofabuse54:00 Kelly Ellard Sim's latest parole hearing (murder of Reena Virk)1:03:00 Albert Johnson Walker's latest parole hearing (murder of Ronald Platt)1:09:00 The Shell Lake Massacre - new details in new podcastMore information:Crime Beat TV - subscribe on youtube for the return of Season 6 in the fall featuring Kerri Kehoe and the "Kingston Cases"The Shell Lake Massacre - new podcast series from Rawlco RadioLegacy of Abuse - support the former students of Legacy Christian AcademyLook out for early, ad-free release on CTC premium feeds: available on Amazon Music (included with Prime), Apple Podcasts, Patreon and Supercast.Full list of resources, information sources, credits and music credits:See the page for this episode at www.canadiantruecrime.ca/episodes Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Starting point is 00:00:00 Canadian True Crime is a completely independent production, funded mainly through advertising. You can listen to Canadian True Crime ad-free and early on Amazon music included with Prime, Apple Podcasts, Patreon, and Supercast. The podcast often has disturbing content and coarse language. It's not for everyone. Please take care when listening. Hi, everyone, and welcome to part two of our major case updates for 2024. Thanks for listening, and I also wanted to say a big thank you for all your supportive ones. messages, it really means a lot. These case updates will be presented in no particular order, and you can find the approximate timestamps, give or take a few minutes in the show notes.
Starting point is 00:00:44 And don't worry if you can't remember the case details or didn't listen to the episode. As always, I'll quickly get you up to speed with each case and where it's at. We start today with a major update from Josh Whiteway about the Lush and Whiteway family's car crash in Newfoundland and Labrador. There's the latest with Jacob Hogarth's appeal of his conviction and his second trial coming up soon. We'll hear from the lovely Kerry Kehoe from Kingston, Ontario, on behalf of the known survivors and victims of Richard Charles Joyce, and we'll also cover the frankly shocking updates in the Legacy Christian Academy and Mile 2 Church Criminal and Civil Cases. It just keeps getting worse and worse. There's also Kelly Allard's latest parole hearings and
Starting point is 00:01:30 new TV show about the murder of Rina Verk, and what the parole board decided about the so-called Rolex killer Albert Johnson Walker and his latest request for freedoms after he murdered Ronald Platt in the UK. There's also an update about the Shell Lake Massacre. So with that, it's on with the show. The Lush and Whiteway Families. We covered the horrific 2019 car crash in Newfoundland, where John and Sandra Lush were driving their daughter Suzanne, her boyfriend, Josh Whiteway, and their cat to the airport after a trip back home to visit family. They were on a collision course with 22-year-old Nicholasville Nerve, who was driving his pickup truck home from a nightclub while intoxicated.
Starting point is 00:02:25 When his car slammed into theirs, John and Sandra Lush were killed on impact, as was the cat. Suzanne Lush and Josh Whiteway were left with serious life-changing injuries and a long recovery process. Josh is now in a wheelchair for life. You might recall there was a massive hiccup with this case in relation to an RCMP officer questioning Villeneuve in the ambulance and at the hospital without properly informing him of his right to speak with a lawyer, which is a requirement when a person of interest is detained. The court had to decide whether Villeneuve was actually detained at the time, and if he was, whether his rights were violated.
Starting point is 00:03:08 The trial judge ruled in his favour, and a bunch of evidence was ruled inadmissible, including blood samples that proved Villeneuve was over the limit to drive, his admission that he had been drinking, as well as phone records and information from his vehicle. Without this evidence, the Crown really had no choice, to withdraw or stay all eight charges against Villeneuve. After a wave of protests, the Crown Prosecution filed an appeal. Last year, we reported that the Newfoundland and Labrador Court of Appeal found that the trial judge wrongly concluded that Nicholas Villeneuve was detained when the evidence did not support
Starting point is 00:03:50 that conclusion. The case was sent back to provincial court, and Nicholas Villeneuve was ordered to stand trial for all eight charges, including two counts of impaired driving causing death. In January of this year, it was reported that Nicholas Villeneuve's defense team tried to take his case to the Supreme Court of Canada, who dismissed the application and provided no reasons for its decision, which is customary. So with this, the way was cleared for the trial to proceed through the Newfoundland and Labrador Provincial Court system. But then, as I was preparing these case updates, Josh Whiteway sent a message with an important update and I got him on the phone.
Starting point is 00:04:36 Hi Josh. How are you? Hey, good. How are you? I'm good, thank you. So, let's just get straight to it. You told me that you received some very important news. Yeah, so basically this morning, I got a call from our victim services representative and she made us aware that he is, plead guilty. So obviously it's great news and yeah, it's a good day. Yeah. So I've just looked up this article on VOCM and it says that one guilty plea was entered with others expected when the case is called again in
Starting point is 00:05:15 November. Yep. So from my understanding it is anticipated that they will plead guilty to the rest. It's just, I believe they wanted to get the ball rolling. pre-sentencing reports and a couple different things. So I think they just did that kind of to get the ball rolling. But the, I guess, anticipation is that they will be pleading guilty to all the rest as well. Has he ever apologized to any of you for what he did? No, no, I haven't heard anything from him or anything. So no. Do you feel like that would make any difference if he did show some kind of remorse or take some kind of accountability? No, not really. I mean, maybe for his own sake, I don't know.
Starting point is 00:06:06 You know, obviously I can't put my own personal mind where his is obviously at. But I don't think it would really make a difference, especially after, you know, five years. I think that moment was kind of past. I don't think it would really matter one way or another for me personally. You know, your whole life was completely overturned by this tragic event. What has life been like for you since then? Yeah, I mean, obviously I had to basically relearn how to live every aspect of life, I guess both mentally and especially physically as well.
Starting point is 00:06:45 But now, I mean, it's been four or five years since I've been living. and life full time in a wheelchair and learn how to adapt to different things and that mean my life is good it's honestly it's great it's a different life and it's uh you know obviously
Starting point is 00:07:02 it took a lot of time and a lot of help and a lot of creativity and kind of keeping that positive mindset and a lot of different types of growth mentally and physically um
Starting point is 00:07:17 and when I look back on it But, you know, life seemed like at that time it was over and, you know, how could I possibly continue living, you know, life as paraplegic and obviously a lot of doubts and just a whole gamut of different concerns and worries and everything obviously runs through your mind. But, yeah, I mean, I've slowly but surely built life back from, you know, rock bottom and everything now is good. I'm happy. I'm fulfilled in my life. And yeah, it's been a crazy journey. But, you know, life is this coming back together again. That's a real testament to your strength and willpower. And I find it very, very inspirational. I'm really sorry for everything that has happened to you guys. And obviously, Suzanne, she's not in the public eye like you are, but she's suffered life-changing injuries as well.
Starting point is 00:08:18 Josh, is there anything else that you wanted to say or that you wanted people to know about this? I mean, I think there's lessons that can be learned from this. I think everyone can take a lot from what happened. I guess just a general story of overcoming obstacles. You know, a lot of people reach out to me and have said they've had similar things happen to them and their lives where a loved one has been injured or lost due to impaired driving and most of the times the person gets away with, you know, little to no repercussions. Yeah, I mean, I guess I would say just for anyone going through something like this that, you know, just keep a positive attitude. And I think that's probably the biggest thing to getting life back on track.
Starting point is 00:09:12 You know, anything can happen if you really put your mind to it and just don't give up. It's been an intense few years for Josh Whiteway and Suzanne Lush as they recover from their life-changing injuries while mourning the loss of Suzanne's parents, John and Sandra Lush, and also having to navigate the roller coaster that is the criminal justice system. It's been more than two years now since Jacob Hogan, the lead singer of the band Headley, was found guilty at trial of SACABETHER. sexual assault causing bodily harm. The verdict was in relation to an Ottawa woman Wee called Emma, who wasn't a fan of the band but happened to meet Hogard on Tinder when she was volunteering at Wee Day in 2016. The band Headley happened to be playing at that event. Hogarth claimed their sexual encounter was consensual. The trial judge described it as a quote, particularly degrading rape. Hoggard had also been charged in relation to another person who we called Sophie, who was a
Starting point is 00:10:29 minor at the time. At trial, both Hoggard and his defence lawyers acknowledged that his behaviour with Sophie, when she was just 15 and he was 31, amounted to grooming, luring and possibly child pornography. But those were not the charges in front of the jury. The charges they had to decide on were sexual touching of a minor and sexual assault causing bodily injury, which Hoggard again claimed was consensual. This time, due to a number of factors that weren't Sophie's fault, the jury found the Crown did not prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt and returned a verdict of not guilty on those charges. For the assault against Emma from Ottawa, Jacob Hoggard was sentenced to five years in prison. But you might be surprised to know he hasn't served a single day in prison yet,
Starting point is 00:11:22 because he immediately launched an appeal of his conviction and he's been out on bail pending that. The band Headley has been on hiatus since the allegations first surfaced in 2018, and since then, Hogarthed has reportedly been working as a carpenter in the Vancouver area to support his wife and young child. So the update is that on June 19th of this year, Judy Trin reported for CTV National News that Jacob Hogarth's appeal was heard by the Ontario Court of Appeal. His defence team presented four grounds of complaint related to claims that the trial judge made mistakes when giving instructions to the jury about how to interpret certain pieces of evidence. The Crown argued that the instructions were balanced and fair to Hoggard.
Starting point is 00:12:15 The appeal was heard in June and we're now waiting for the panel of judges to return with the decision. It should be noted that even if the appeals court finds merit in any of the defense's grounds for appeal, it doesn't necessarily mean that Hogarth's conviction will be overturned and a new trial audit. But it certainly is a stressful situation for Emma from Ottawa. Speaking of which, Emma is still moving forward with suing Jacob Hoggard on the grounds that her life has been fundamentally and forever changed by the sexual assault he was convicted of and that she continues to suffer physical, emotional and mental pain and suffering and a loss of enjoyment of life. But there's another decision that she's been grappling with, whether to testify at the next
Starting point is 00:13:05 trial coming up later this year. As you'll recall, it's in relation to a third victim complainant, who alleges Hogarth sexually assaulted her causing bodily injury after a concert at Kirkland Lakes, Ontario in 2016, the same year as his assault on Emma from Ottawa. In that case, Hoggard has elected to have another jury trial. In last year's case updates, we reported that Emma was feeling incredibly depressed and anxious about the prospect of testifying again, and it's not hard to see why after all that she went through at that first trial. Despite rape shield laws put in place, the defense ambushed Emma several times in an attempt to bypass them. They falsely accused her of lying until she became distressed and broke down. These and other tactics used by the defense
Starting point is 00:14:01 went against the spirit of those rape shield laws, which was specifically designed to prevent victim complainants from having to be retramatized in a completely new and very unfair way via the trial. So it probably shouldn't be a surprise that Emma has made a decision not to testify at Jacob Hogarth's next trial in Kirkland Lake. On reflection, Emma felt that her experience in the court process was actually worse than the sexual assault itself. The whole experience set her mental health back
Starting point is 00:14:36 to a point where she had to restart therapy and trauma treatment again. She says in hindsight she regrets participating in the legal process and wishes she never testified in the first place. In an interview with Judy Trin for CTV News, she said she won't go through it again, even if it means Hogan walks away free. Quote, for me, 12 members of his peers found him guilty in a court. Ten of them were men. I don't need another set of people to tell me what he did. I have to be able to walk away. It's already been eight years of my life. Jacob Hougar's defense team might be patting themselves on the back for conceiving such deceitful, conniving and harmful defense tactics, But the question has to be asked.
Starting point is 00:15:27 Who is really winning in the long term if sexual assault survivors no longer feel it's worth it to engage with the criminal justice system? We wish Emma all the best this year, as well as the other victim complainant from Kirkland Lake. She hasn't spoken out publicly like Emma did to Judy Trin of CBC News. So I want to say,
Starting point is 00:15:48 Kirkland Lake, if you're listening or someone who knows you is listening, I would welcome your contact. and we'll support you confidentially and with discretion. I also wanted to say the same message to Sophie from Barry, the other victim complainant from the first trial. There is safety in numbers and just because you're under a publication ban doesn't mean that you don't have support out there.
Starting point is 00:16:13 We're all thinking of you. Next, we speak with Kerry Kehoe from Kingston to get an update about Richard Charles Joyce and what's been happening behind the scenes. We also have an update from Caitlin Erickson and the former students of Legacy Christian Academy. The Saskatoon School affiliated with Mile 2 Church that's currently embroiled in a massive criminal and civil scandal. Just when you thought the iceberg couldn't get any bigger. The Kingston Cases
Starting point is 00:16:59 This was our series of several interconnected cases from the late 80s and early 90s in Kingston, Ontario. The brutal murder of wife and mother of three Yvonne Rouleau at her local business, Nozzles Gaspar, and the later revelation that one of the two perpetrators, Richard Charles Joyce, had also abducted and sexually assaulted three young girls. Carrie Kehoe and the two survivors we've called Annie and Jane, who are still under publication ban. I've stayed in touch with Kerry, and she's joining us today from Kingston for a bit of an update. Hi, Kerry. How are you?
Starting point is 00:17:40 I'm good. It is so lovely to have you join us and to see your face again, even though the listeners will have to take my word for it. So back in February when I was in the end stages of putting the Kingston series together, you came up with an idea to organize a live watch party in Kingston for the community and the supporters and your friends and family to listen just before the second two episodes. were released to the public. And I know that you are a person that makes things happen. I mean, you organized the first ever parole board hearing watch party and hired a hall in Kingston for people together in person to watch the hearing together. So when you told me about the listen party for these episodes, I bought myself a via rail ticket and I caught the train to Kingston and you had organized about 60 people to join us, including members of Yvonne Rulow's family, people from victim services, a counselor from the Children's Treatment Center in Cornwall, a whole bunch of
Starting point is 00:18:45 your friends and family members and supporters. There were some listeners of the podcast and two federal MPs who drove from Ottawa. I think for everyone there, including me, it was an incredibly surreal and intense event, wasn't it? Yeah, it really. It was. I had a hold back a lump in my throat because just the way you described it, it was very surreal. How the evening unfolded to listen to you telling the story with family, friends, all gathered, just listening. We never had an experience like that before. And I thank you very much for coming down. And it was very surreal.
Starting point is 00:19:31 Yeah, it was. And it was an honor to be there. Thank you for having me and for organizing such a meaningful event for the local community. And we know that there were many tears shared during the event, many used tissues. Relationships started healing, new relationships were formed. And I know a couple of people came forward to tell you things that they'd never spoken about before and potential new leads to other people connected to the case. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:19:59 So many relationships concerned from that gathering. and so much information will share some very disturbing information in regards to people, new joys, new stories of joys. It's just really interesting how people are sitting on information, and they don't even know how important that information is or the potential of sharing that information with the right people, what that could mean. Yeah, we know. that it's important to you that if there are other potential victims of Richard Charles Joyce
Starting point is 00:20:39 who have chosen to stay silent, that they're aware that it's never too late to come forward to the police and that there's a community waiting to support them. And during the event and afterwards, I know that you were made aware of a few credible leads to new information. Do you think there's any appetite for the people involved to come forward? Absolutely not. People just don't want to get involved. Why do you think that is? I'm not sure, especially the way I've lived in my life. You know, I think of a simple act of opening the door for somebody.
Starting point is 00:21:18 It just comes naturally and where people have information and they just don't want to get involved or they don't want their name it there. some people have told the stories from learning about their family members working inside the prisons that Joyce was incarcerated at and their family members knew new information and they shared it with their loved ones from a place of safety and so they've come to receive this information maybe not firsthand and so they don't want to get anybody in trouble or they don't want to get anybody involved. And other people just don't realize that the information that they have is really important. Absolutely. Circling back to Richard Charles Joyce, I understand that he was eligible for a parole hearing as of March of this year,
Starting point is 00:22:22 but so far he hasn't applied. Yeah, that's the most comforting part of our conversation. Every day that I don't receive a phone is a win versus some ind. It's a win. I think it really does make a difference when members of the public can do something to stay in Florida. And I thought it was quite amazing how all of those people logged in to watch Joyce's first parole hearing, more than 80 people, and how that must have been a stark reminder to him that people are monitoring him with public safety in mind and that he has not being forgotten. And it's important because he's been moved to an institution far away in British Columbia. And it could be all too easy for him to fall through the cracks, right? Right there, he's not falling through the cronics. If they move away from their victims,
Starting point is 00:23:16 victims tend to disengage the victims who have already been through enough. They say to themselves, you know, he's not going to hurt me again. He can't come. come after my family again, you know, where what you just said, he's not going to fall through the cracks, especially since the poor board of candy hearing happened. All of us have since been connected. And so when one receives one information, we share it. And it's always for the greater good. It's always to stay on top of Joyce's next move.
Starting point is 00:23:56 And so if he's hoping that his victims would disengage, that didn't happen. And it's not a matter of he should be doing this or he should be doing that or he should never see the light of day. It comes from a place of he's a serial child, cannot be rapist and murder, who will be offended. No one can convince me otherwise. That is the future if he's released. Just as a reminder to the listeners,
Starting point is 00:24:24 Richard Charles Joyce admitted at the parole hearing last year that he was still having fantasies about prepubescent girls, about once a month, which is consistent with pedophilic disorder. And while there are treatments and therapies to help a person manage harmful behaviors and actions resulting from pedophilic disorder, if they want to be helped, of course, it can't be cured. There is no rehabilitation for a person with pedophilic disorder. And I guess that brings us to the next point. The misinformation given to the parole board by Joyce's own parole officer. At the hearing, she stated that he had been working outside the prison grounds
Starting point is 00:25:08 and insisted that he had a position of trust that allowed him to do that without any concern of him just walking offside. Now, this was news to the parole board and to you, Kerry, and to those on the victim's side. after the hearing, I know that you contacted the acting warden of the institution where Joyce is incarcerated, who clarified that he was not in a position of trust, that he still worked within the perimeter of the institution and was fully supervised at all times. And Kerry, I know you were later told that the parole officer had admitted to a human error
Starting point is 00:25:49 in judgment, which she reportedly regretted. But this chain of events exposed a systemic issue that there seems to be no reasonable expectation of factual information being presented at a parole board hearing. And when the subject of that hearing happens to be a convicted murderer and violent child sexual predator who has admitted to still having fantasies about prepubescent girls. and he's asking for additional freedoms that could pose a serious risk to public safety. Facts really do matter. So, Kerry, where we left off at the end of the series, I told the audience that you had submitted several formal complaints about that whole situation with Joyce's parole officer. Can you tell us what has happened after that?
Starting point is 00:26:40 Complaints are still ongoing. It's nothing means fast at all corrections. stated that my complaint wasn't admissible. And so I took my complaint to the victim of prime bombardment and they were admissible. Wow. So what happens now with that? We waited out. I have to continue pursuing it. I have to continue raising the issue. I have to continue advocating that it wasn't right. Nothing further has happened. It's a hurry up and wait. And I imagine that all of that was probably incredibly frustrating for you. Well, it's continuing to keep going.
Starting point is 00:27:24 Every so often, I learn something new on how to pursue a complaint this way or learning how the system works that way or just overall. What can I do next for my voice and my concerns to be heard? And two organizations that have been extremely helpful have been the Canadian Resource Center for Victims of Crime and Victim of Crime Abundsmen. I can not speak any more highly for thoughts and advice. It's an everyday thing now.
Starting point is 00:28:00 So it's definitely an adjustment, the bigger picture of what does it all mean. I just want to make sure that everyone remains as safe as possible away from Joyce. So it's been more than a decade since Joyce's historic crimes against children came to light, and more than three decades since he participated in the murder of Yvonne Rouleau at Nozzles-Gaspar. How has your city of Kingston been affected by all of this? It's hard to believe that it's been 13 years and the story still is home in Kingston
Starting point is 00:28:40 because much of an amazing individual Yvonne Ruhl was and how good she was to people, you know, her regular customers, the community at large. And then as they learned about what was impacted by his crimes against children, it's very sad and it's very heartbreaking. Carrie, thanks again for joining us. And we'll certainly keep in touch. And we're obviously still keeping in touch with the family of any. and also the Rulot family.
Starting point is 00:29:11 So thank you again. You're actually, like you're an amazing storyteller, and you are so good at the details. It's such a complicated case. It's fractured, and it takes twists and turns, and you were able to tell the story factually and in detail, and it made such a huge, huge difference. Thanks, thanks.
Starting point is 00:29:37 That means a lot. It certainly meant to. a lot to me, that's for sure. As a final update today, I'm excited to tell you that the case will be featured on Global News' investigative crime TV show, Crime Beat, which is returning with season six in the fall. Using extensive archives and new intimate family interviews, journalist Karen Lieberman and her team unravel the case and explore the lasting impacts on the community and to the justice system. To make sure that you don't miss it, subscribe on YouTube to Crime Beat TV and you can watch it there as well.
Starting point is 00:30:14 The Legacy Christian Academy and Mile 2 Church Scandal. This was the series that we did last summer, covering the harrowing criminal allegations of physical, sexual, psychological and spiritual abuse of students at the Saskatoon Saskatchewan School formerly called Christian Centre Academy. Currently known as Legacy Christian Academy, the school is in the same building as its parent organization, Mile 2 Church, an evangelical or Pentecostal Christian Church that used to be known as Saskatoon Christian Center Church. They do love a good rebrand over there. As you'll recall, Caitlin Erickson and a group of other former students went public more than two years ago
Starting point is 00:31:08 with allegations that those in a position of authority at their school and church acted individually and together to inflict harm upon children and students, including physical and sexual abuse as well as forms of torture. Within a year, this story had snowballed, and the growing number of former students launched a class-action civil lawsuit that named more than 20 defendants, alleging that the Saskatchewan government's Ministry of Education failed in its duty of care to ensure the safety and well-being of students
Starting point is 00:31:42 and their right to a proper public education. The allegations led to a wider conversation about the Saskatchewan government's funding of independent schools without taking the proper steps to ensure they're using an approved and valid curriculum and qualified teachers. Then the case moved into the criminal courts, with Saskatoon police laying charges on some of those defendants in relation to sexual assault and assault with a weapon,
Starting point is 00:32:10 and there have been quite a few updates in the year since we covered this case. One is related to the former athletics director of the school, 47-year-old Aaron Benewise. Former student, Jennifer Bodry, applied to have the publication ban removed from her name and told her story publicly, alleging that Benewise began making eyes at her in 2008 when she was just 13 years old, and he was around 30. This behaviour continued over the next few years and in the spring of 2012, when Jennifer was 16 years old, she said that Benewise, then about 33, asked her to go back to his place for lunch because his wife and kids weren't home. There, he touched her sexually. Jennifer alleged that the abuse also occurred in secluded rooms in the school and church, in the school van and on school trips out of town. After the former students started speaking out about the allegations publicly in 2022, Jennifer decided to come forward as well.
Starting point is 00:33:21 After a police investigation, Benowice was charged with sexual assault and sexual exploitation of a minor while in a position of trust or authority between 2008 and 2012. Aaron Benewise pleaded guilty to both counts in October of 2023, and our update today is about his sentencing hearing held in January of this year. Jennifer Boudry, of course, gave a victim impact statement, telling her former athletics coach, quote, I hope you never really want to look in the mirror again. I hope I went from your biggest fantasy to your worst fucking nightmare. Before Benowice was handcuffed and led out of the courtroom pending sentencing,
Starting point is 00:34:08 He read an apology saying that his involvement with Jennifer was, quote, Because I was at a very low point in my life without thinking about anything or anyone other than myself. I pursued her. It was wrong on so many levels. In a bizarre twist of events, Benowice offered to pay Jennifer $10,000, saying it was compensation for the therapy and medication she needed as a result of his criminal behavior. He said, quote, I have felt overwhelming guilt for many years. To her, I do say sorry.
Starting point is 00:34:43 I cannot reverse the mistakes I made with her, but one thing I can offer for Jennifer is financial support. Crown prosecutor Cheryl Philo said, The victim and the Crown actually found this offensive that someone would think they would be able to, as it appears, buy their way out of or reduce their sentence by making that offer. Aaron Benewise, through his lawyer, insisted that was not the intention and that he was just putting his money where his mouth is. At the sentencing hearing a few weeks after that,
Starting point is 00:35:18 provincial court judge Marilyn Gray told Benowice that he exploited Jennifer for his own sexual gratification, undeterred, even though he knew his conduct was wrong. It amounted to a grave breach of trust. While the judge noted he had no criminal record, expressed remorse, pleaded guilty, and said he was willing to go to counselling, Benowise had not actually sought out any treatment for his deviant sexual behaviour and still lacked insight into it. She sentenced him to two years in prison. Caitlin Erickson, the spokesperson for the group of former students, said that this first conviction strengthened their class action lawsuit. In the meantime, yet another man has been exposed
Starting point is 00:36:08 for gross and inappropriate behaviour towards two former female students. This time, it wasn't an employee of the school or church, but a government-appointed administrator tasked with making sure the embattled school was following the rules. Turns out he couldn't follow them himself. Michael Walter was at the time, a high-ranking executive in Saskatchewan's Ministry of Education and served as administrator of Legacy Christian Academy from the later half of 2002 through to early 2003. As part of his role, Walter was in
Starting point is 00:36:47 contact with a select group of former students that included Caitlin Erickson and Jennifer Boudry, and initially they found him to be highly motivated, a knowledgeable contact for them to have. And he did contact them often to share his findings, telling Caitlin that, in his opinion, the school was beyond repair and should be shut down. Both women hoped Mike Walter would bring positive change, but instead he tried to hit on them both. Caitlin Erickson would report that Walter asked her to meet in person, promising updates to the case that rarely materialized. Caitlin described him as being emotionally needy and reported that he invited her to his his home to cook dinner once and suggested she stay overnight.
Starting point is 00:37:35 Caitlin refused and often had to remind him to remain professional, which she said was difficult because he was a government official that she was trying to maintain open lines of communication with. Jennifer Boudry shared similar experiences with Michael Walter, including an incident at a coffee meeting initiated by him, where he became overly emotional and awkwardly tried to hold hands. Later, she said he promised more updates about the case, so many that he said meeting for drinks was more appropriate than coffee. Again, the updates failed to materialise.
Starting point is 00:38:13 Jennifer said that when she realized he just wanted to go for drinks with her, she ended their communications. All of this happened over about six months until early 2003, when Michael Walter was promoted to assistant deputy director at the Ministry of the Ministry of education and no longer the school's administrator. The following month, according to CTV News, he provided an update at the Saskatchewan legislature saying that Legacy Christian Academy was mostly aligned with the Ministry of Education's curriculum. This contradicted the statements he'd given to Caitlin and Jennifer. He had noted his findings in his official administrative report, but for some reason the government would not make it public.
Starting point is 00:39:02 So the NDP party requested it through a Freedom of Information request. Although the report they received was heavily redacted, it still showed that Michael Walter found the school was in breach of many of the rules. The fact that he told a different story at the Saskatchewan legislature suggested that the provincial government was trying to hide that they had failed in their duty of care to show. students. Incredibly angry about the whole thing, Caitlin Erickson publicly leaked documents showing that Legacy Christian Academy was put on probation with conditions that it was still breaching.
Starting point is 00:39:42 She and Jennifer Boudry also went public and recounted their experiences with Michael Walter in an episode of Caitlin's Legacy of Abuse podcast. The media picked up the frankly wild story of the government administrator appointed to oversee a highly problematic school, who exploited a power dynamic and behaved inappropriately with former female students who alleged abuse at said school, and then provided what appeared to be deceptive information suggesting the school was following the rules when it really wasn't. I have to say, why does it always seem like the Saskatchewan government is in cahoots with this church school? Just days after the media reported this story, Michael Walter resigned after more than 30 years in the public education sector, saying, quote,
Starting point is 00:40:32 I regret my choices regarding further contact I made with Caitlin Erickson and Jennifer Boudry. I am sorry and sincerely apologize to both. Caitlin told CBC News that the whole situation was further proof of just how important it is for her and the other former students to continue the fight to make systems better and safer for others. So in addition to Aaron Benewise, three other men have been charged in relation to abuse of students, and so far one of those men has gone to trial. Well, sort of. You might remember John Oliver Bokin, former principal and director of the school known as Legacy Christian Academy, who was charged with multiple counts of historical assault with a weapon to be
Starting point is 00:41:24 dealt with in two separate trials. He's obviously pleaded not guilty. One trial coming up later deals with the alleged incident with the senior girls volleyball team, where they were lined up and paddled. His trial related to all of the other charges was scheduled for June of this year. Just before it began, Caitlin Erickson and the former students staged another protest outside the building that houses Mile 2 Church and Legacy Christian Academy. They called for the Saskatchewan government to stop funding the independent school, noting that not only does it use a dodgy curriculum that's contrary to the goals of education for Saskatchewan, but it's also facing a litany of criminal charges and separate trials relating to physical and sexual abuse of students
Starting point is 00:42:14 and has failed to take any meaningful action. Remember, it's our public dollars that are being used to fund this school. Caitlin said that this is the very reason why the criminal and civil processes needed to happen. They're not going to do it themselves until they're shut down. The former students protesting also spoke about a strange letter that had made the news several months earlier. In April of 2004, Dan Zagreski of CBC News reported receiving a leaked letter addressed to the Saskatchewan Government's Ministry of Education that had been, reportedly been circulating among senior officials at Legacy Christian Academy.
Starting point is 00:42:58 The letter says the school was considering closing their doors at the end of the school year and planned to rent the space to Westdale Christian School, which had expressed interest and planned to reopen in the fall. The letter read in part, quote, The hope is our families will transfer to Westdale without having to continue under the cloud of allegations that is the current situation. During the former students protest in June, Caitlin Erickson described this news as a try for rebrand number three and said the parent organization of Mile 2 Church can slap whatever name they want on the building at 102 Pinehouse
Starting point is 00:43:39 Drive Saskatoon. But everyone knows the legacy left by the school. Quote, it's really just disappointing that after everything that's come forward that there's no self-reflection just to say, hey, maybe we shouldn't be in the business of education. In response to those news reports, the current principal of Legacy Christian Academy, Christine Gamash, wrote to CBC that, quote, To my knowledge, no such letter was sent to the Ministry of Education. It's now the summer holidays and the new school year starts in September. There has been no, further word on what Christian school, if any, will be opening in that building with Mile 2 Church. Back to the trial of John Oliver Bolkin, which started the Monday after the former students
Starting point is 00:44:31 protested outside the school. The Crown called 11 witnesses to testify against him about their experiences of being bent over a chair or desk and paddled with a sturdy and thick wooden paddle, which some described as being like a baseball bat. School authorities had described this form of punishment as scriptural discipline. Caitlin Erickson testified about being hit multiple times with the paddle by Oliver Boken, which he said left white welts and bruising that would last for weeks. Another former student said the force of the hit broke the actual paddle. The court also heard that Oliver Boken gave them a range of reasons for
Starting point is 00:45:15 why they were being paddled. After failing to cry while receiving the so-called scriptural discipline, one student was paddled even more for not reacting appropriately. Yet another said she was paddled because Oliver Bokin believed she was giving more attention to a Christian band than she was to God. And another testified the former principal and director paddled her and called her ungodly after she came to school with dark, goff-like dyed hair. Yet another student testified that Oliver Boken paddled him five times after he found out the student had watched the movie Anger Management with his mother. The witnesses testified about attending a school that cultivated a culture of silence and strict
Starting point is 00:46:01 rules based on the whims of school leadership and that they were brainwashed into believing that what they were having to endure was the right thing. It should be noted that the charges relate to Oliver Bokin's time at the school from 2003 to 2007, which is well past 1988 when corporal punishment was made illegal. For legal reasons again, we have to state that none of these allegations have been proven in court because unfortunately the trial fell apart after the Crown finished presenting its evidence. After 11 Crown witnesses testified, John Oliver Boken's lawyer asked for an adjournment or to pause the trial. It was right before he was due to testify in his own defence.
Starting point is 00:46:52 Caitlin has given me a summary of what happened behind the scenes, because it had to do with her testimony about Oliver Boken hitting her with the paddle on specific dates. She says that during cross-examination, Oliver Bockechon, defense lawyer asked her how she knew those specific dates, and she said she wrote about them in her journal. The defense claimed they didn't know anything about these journal entries and suggested they didn't exist. Now we know that Caitlin is never unprepared and stood firm as she always does, confirming that she offered her journal entries to police as per the chain of evidence, and she actually brought copies of them with her to court that day. After a short
Starting point is 00:47:36 recess where those copies were distributed to the defense. The Crown prosecutor presented an email showing that the defense had been informed of the journal entries but never responded. When Caitlin got back on the stand to continue being cross-examined, the defense told her no further questions and asked the judge for an adjournment. He said that they wanted to examine that evidence because John Oliver Boken felt massively unprepared to testify in his own defense. The judge allowed it, and the trial is scheduled to resume in October. Outside court, Caitlin Erickson told reporters that the situation was disappointing and frustrating, but she wasn't shocked. She described the request for adjournment as a possible defense tactic to delay or stall proceedings, but affirmed
Starting point is 00:48:28 the group of former students' resolve to keep pushing for judgment. Justice. Oliver Boken fired his lawyer the next day, and then he hired a new one, but on August the 1st of this year, that lawyer withdrew due to a client conflict. He's now onto his third lawyer. So his first trial is scheduled to resume in October, and his second trial that deals with the alleged volleyball incident starts in November. There are, of course, two other men charged who are still facing trials. One of them is Duff Friesen, former principal of the school who was charged with 11 counts of historical assault with a weapon in relation to paddling students. He pleaded not guilty and is set for a trial by jury in May of next year. Strangely enough, it's been more than a decade
Starting point is 00:49:25 since Duff Friesen was employed by Legacy Christian Academy, so it's interesting to note that Mile 2 Church is paying for his legal fees, according to a leaked email sent to Caitlin Erickson. Kate questioned why a religious non-profit would be paying the legal bills of someone accused of historic crimes against children. Why indeed? The other man still facing a trial is 74-year-old Ken Schultz, former school director and vice-principal of the school, as well as frequent writer of self-righteous and judgmental letters to the editor of the Saskatoon Star Phoenix. Schultz was charged with one count of sexual assault and assault with a weapon related to a former student. Similar to the situation with the sleazy government administrator, this student
Starting point is 00:50:17 alleges that when she was just four to six years old, she disclosed to church leadership that she was being sexually abused in her own home. In response, she was ordered to have so-called healing sessions with Ken Schultz, where she alleged that he then sexually assaulted her. Schultz has pleaded not guilty and his trial by jury is scheduled for this October. We'll be sure to update you next year about all of those trials. This is just the tip of the iceberg, and it goes deep. In June of this year, both the Ministry of Education and Saskatoon Police confirmed they were investigating a new complaint of assault.
Starting point is 00:50:59 at Legacy Christian Academy. The parents of a seven-year-old child with autism alleged that during class, his gym teacher hit him twice over the head with a track baton, leaving him with a goose egg on his head. The parents reported the incident to current principal Christine Gamash, who they said tried to downplay it and then apologized and said she was dealing with it. The parents were given no further details about how and decided to pull the child. out of the school. In other news, you might remember that the lawsuit filed by the former students named Saskatoon City Councilor Randy Donauer as a principal defendant, claiming that he was instrumental in the development and implementation of the policies and procedures undertaken by the
Starting point is 00:51:52 church known as Mile 2 Church, and that he paddled one student and threatened to paddle others. In response to Saskatoon residents calling for his resignation from the city council, Randy Denauer denied all claims of abuse and denied developing policy or procedures at the church and school. Now that development happened in 2022, but Caitlin Erickson has since exposed a leaked email she received that appears to show the city councillor was still very much involved in church leadership as recently as May of 2003. She tweeted screenshots of board meeting minutes where Randy details strategy and policy recommendations for the church, including that they should add some women to the church's board. And Caitlin also tells me that not only has Randy not resigned as city councillor, but he's
Starting point is 00:52:49 running again. What a great group of guys. The rot inside these institutions and the government really does run deep. Speaking of which, you might also remember former pastor Keith Johnson, the man who basically founded the school, now known as Legacy Christian Academy, and wrote the guidebook that advocates for paddling or corporal punishment as scriptural discipline. He was named as a defendant in the class action statement of claim, but the authorities weren't able to locate him, and as of recording, he has still not been located.
Starting point is 00:53:26 He's believed to be hiding out in the United States in either Texas or Oklahoma. Yet another example of pure cowardice and a complete lack of integrity. The former students are continuing to move forward with their class action lawsuit. Please see a link in the show notes for more information. As always, we wish them well. After the break, updates about the murder of Rina Verk, The Murder of Ronald Platt by Albert Johnson Walker, at one point Canada's Most Wanted Man, and finally a new podcast about the Shell Lake Massacre, featuring intimate family interviews.
Starting point is 00:54:22 The murder of Rina Verk Rina Verk was the 14-year-old girl from Victoria, British Columbia, who in 1997 was lured under a bridge by a gang of teenagers, mostly girls, and then brutally attacked by them. She sustained a vicious beating, and when the other girls left, 15-year-old Kelly Allard and 16-year-old Warren Gloatski stayed behind and beat Rina a second time.
Starting point is 00:54:51 Warren watched on as Kelly held Rina's head underwater until she drowned. They were both found guilty of second-degree murder and sentenced as adults, which meant publication bans on their identities, were lifted. During their time in prison, Warren Glouadzky was deemed to be genuinely remorseful and realized the impact of his actions, leading to his release on full parole in 2010 after serving 13 years with the Verk family's blessing. But things were different for Callie Allard, who was openly defiant and continuously struggled to show remorse and take accountability, and resulted in her remaining in prison much longer than her co-accused.
Starting point is 00:55:37 In 2017, Kelly was granted day parole after giving birth to her first child, conceived during a family visit or conjugal visit with her boyfriend, who was himself on day parole at the time. Over the following two years, things seemed to progress in a more positive direction, and Kelly received an extension of her day parole privileges in general. January of 2020, with the board noting that she had completed a number of treatment programs and was showing remorse for her crime. Kelly Allard went on to have a second child with the same partner and was granted extended day parole and overnight leave to gradually gain more freedoms.
Starting point is 00:56:20 By January of 2021, at 38, and now going by the name Kelly Sim, the board approved another six months of day parole while she was living in a halfway house. They cited her positive behavior and high reintegration potential and noted the irony of her finding purpose and motherhood after taking the life of another mother's child. The board said the hope was that she will live a normal life for her children's sake. It certainly looked like Callie Allard or Callie Sim was on the up and up. That was until May of 2022 when it was announced that the 40-year-old's day parole had been suspended. The Parole Board of Canada noted that despite her progress, quote, over the last two years there were changes in your personal life and the stress of motherhood
Starting point is 00:57:15 and maintaining a household began impacting you. Your intimate partner lost his job and you were experiencing financial problems. Callie's day parole was suspended for several reasons. The board noted there was drug and alcohol use which is prohibited. There were also, quote, indications of domestic violence with the father of her two young children, which she failed to report. While there were no further details provided publicly about that, the board did note that Callie had a willingness to engage in extreme violence and a history of aggressive and assaultive behaviour, which suggests she may have been the perpetrator of that violence against her partner. She was assessed as moderate to high moderate risk to re-offend. Kelly herself waived her right to the next parole hearing, conceding
Starting point is 00:58:09 that she is not ready for full parole. By Kelly's next parole hearing later that year, Her day parole had resumed with the board noting she had remained focused on her two young sons during that time. The board also approved an extension with numerous conditions. Kelly is not to consume drugs or alcohol, have contact with certain people, including Reneverk's family, and she has to follow psychiatric treatment to address her anxiety and other mental health issues. The board also suggested that she look for a job, noting that she seemed reluctant to move forward with the steps necessary to find employment. This year, 2004, two new things happened. Callie had another parole hearing and a true crime drama based on the murder of Rina Verk was released by Disney Plus in Canada as well as Hulu.
Starting point is 00:59:07 The miniseries called Under the Bridge is based on the 2000. A 2005 book of the same name by the late author Rebecca Godfrey and stars Indigenous actor Lily Gladstone as a composite character standing in for a number of investigators. It also stars Elvis Presley's granddaughter Riley Keough playing author Rebecca Godfrey and Archie Punjabi from The Good Wife playing Rina's late mother, Sumin Verk. I haven't watched it yet but I've heard good feedback about it. That said, it hasn't been without controversy. The series does reportedly have a disclaimer that while it's based on actual events,
Starting point is 00:59:50 certain elements have been fictionalized or invented. Chris Horsley, who was a media liaison officer on the original investigation in Terina's murder, told reporter Alex Nino Gaitchu that none of the actual investigators had been contacted by the production team or consulted on the accuracy of the facts. Describing the case as the biggest media story the area had ever seen, Horsley said that a dramatized version of the story does a great disservice to not only Rina and her memory, but also to those who worked on the case and the community itself.
Starting point is 01:00:29 The former media liaison officer said he hoped viewers would remember that Rina Verk was not just a character on a television show, but a real girl who lived in Greater Victoria who was brutally murdered. Quote, it's a real story with real victims, and I urge people that do watch the series to please never lose sight of the fact that an innocent 14-year-old girl lost her life.
Starting point is 01:00:56 Another person who has an opinion to share is Callie Sim herself. It's not known if she's watched the miniseries, but it was a topic of conversation at her margin, 2004 Parole Board of Canada hearing, the board told her that, quote, You recently also demonstrated some remorse and victim empathy after a discussion about an upcoming television series based on your crimes. You said the series is disrespectful to the victim and her family and that the index offense was so horrendous that it would re-victimize the victim's family. It's worth noting that while I can't find any
Starting point is 01:01:37 comments from Rina's father, Manjit Verk, about the miniseries. A spokesperson for the TV production company reportedly said they did consult with him and also optioned his 2008 book called Rina a father's story to use as reference material for the miniseries. So it appears that it was produced with at least the knowledge of the Verk family. According to media reports, the family did not provide a victim impact statement for the latest parole board hearing, but the board noted recent statements in which the family described the devastating impact of Rina's murder. They also pointed out Callie Sims' ongoing issues with non-compliance and how they haven't been able to escape the immense media coverage around it. The situation has
Starting point is 01:02:28 caused Rina's family much stress and anxiety. According to the most recent, parole documents, Callie Sim is currently living in a community-based residential facility in the lower mainland of British Columbia. The parole board report she has expressed frustration and anxiety about the fact that she's struggling to cope with life on a limited budget, a lack of childcare options, and the fact that, quote, your ex-spouse abandoned you and your children, as the board said to her. It was recommended that she continued to live. It was recommended that she continued to look for part-time work. Callie's day parole was extended by another six months, with the board noting that there had been no more evidence that she was misusing substances or displaying violent
Starting point is 01:03:17 or aggressive behaviours. It was also recommended that she look for part-time work, while acknowledging that she did feel busy looking after her two children. In my opinion, it might be easy to dunk on Cali Sim, but I do feel empathy for her because I can't imagine how difficult single motherhood already is without taking into consideration that she has never lived an adult life outside the prison system and she's never had an adult job. And life is very different now to what it was in the late 90s. I do hope that for the sake of her children, she's able to find her way. The murder of Ronald Platt. Ronald Platt was murdered in England in 1996 by Canadian criminal Albert Johnson Walker,
Starting point is 01:04:16 who was given the nickname the Rolex killer. He was once Canada's most wanted man and Interpol's fourth most wanted, and the twisted story of his crimes and the tragic impact to his many victims has led to books, a TV movie, and even a copycat storyline on the British TV show Coronation Street. As you might remember, Walker was once a financial advisor in southwestern Ontario and stole up to $3 million from investors. When he started to feel the heat, he abducted one of his teenage daughters and fled with her to the UK, where he assumed the identity of an English immigrant he'd met while in Canada. That immigrant's name was Ronald Platt. While in England,
Starting point is 01:05:04 Albert Johnson Walker groomed and coached his teenage. daughter to act as though they were a married couple, and she gave birth to two children during that time who called him dad. The children's paternity has never been addressed publicly, and there is little appetite to force that issue for obvious reasons. Later, Walker's daughter would speak out for the first and only time, saying she was scared of her father and believed he's a dangerous individual who poses a threat that she needs to protect her family from. In the meantime, back in Canada, Ronald Platt had no idea what Walker had done or what he was capable of. That was until he returned to the UK, where he discovered his identity had been
Starting point is 01:05:51 stolen. When Ronald's body was found by a fisherman, tied to an anchor in the English Channel, smart investigation tactics led police to Albert Johnson Walker, who was found guilty at trial and sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole for 25 years. In 2005, he was transferred to Canada to serve out the rest of his sentence here. Walker had testified at trial that he knew nothing about how Ronald Platt died, but in 2021 when he applied for parole, he changed his story, saying that he had taken Ronald fishing and his death was an accident. The board rejected his explanation and denied parole. He applied again in 2003, asking for day parole so that he could participate in a trial 60-day relapse prevention program, with the view of it leading to full
Starting point is 01:06:47 parole. The board granted him limited day parole, but noted it had not forgotten that Walker was a very manipulative individual with considerable charm and ability to con people, someone who engages in a high level of impression management. The board would be watching Albert Johnson Walker closely. In February of 2024, it was reported that 78-year-old Walker had another parole hearing, this time applying for full day parole, which was supported by Correctional Services Canada. A recent psychological report found Walker to be positive, affable and loves people. He's in a prison seniors group, goes to church and is committed to his faith, is generally well-behaved and pays attention to self-care. The parole board heard that he was deemed a low risk for violence
Starting point is 01:07:43 and a moderate risk of non-violent re-offending. But the board had many contextual concerns with this assessment, pointing out that Walker was once described by a judge as a ruthless man and a considerable threat to anyone who stands in his way. The board noted that the vast majority of his offences involved misrepresentation of his intentions, actions and motivations, and told him, You continue to misrepresent yourself to others around you, failing to take full responsibility or be accountable for your fraudulent, thieving and violent acts. This came in part from a report from Walker's community parole officer while on limited day parole that found he minimized his crimes and insisted that he did not steal money from his investors in Ontario. His business simply failed.
Starting point is 01:08:41 Walker also insisted he did not kill Ronald Platt and claimed the man's death was the result of Ronald falling overboard and drowning after they wrestled and fought while on the fishing boat. The community parole officer described the 78-year-old as smooth and affable and stated that he was still relying on his charm and charisma to persuade people to believe whatever he said. The parole board told Walker that, quote, On a regular day parole, you will have much greater access to potential victims and it will be much more difficult to monitor your behavior toward others. It was also noted that his many fraud victims,
Starting point is 01:09:23 believe he will turn back to white-collar crime if released. Day parole was turned down. The Shell Lake Massacre. This was one of our earliest episodes about the horrific mass murder of the Peterson family in Shell Lake, Saskatchewan, in 1967. The perpetrator was a young man named Victor Hoffman, who had just been released from a psychiatric facility a few weeks earlier. Hoffman was later.
Starting point is 01:10:00 Hoffman was later diagnosed with schizophrenia and was experiencing an acute episode of religious psychosis as he drove through rural Saskatchewan, randomly deciding to turn into a farm owned by the Peterson family. He entered the home with a 22-caliber pump-action rifle and shot each family member one by one. Parents James and Evelyn Peterson and seven of their nine children, Jean, Mary, Dorothy, Pearl, William, Colin and baby Larry, all aged between 1 and 17. The sole survivor was their sibling Phyllis, just four years old, who was hiding under the bed sheets. Hoffman simply didn't see her. There was another adult child who wasn't present at the time, the eldest Peterson daughter, Kathy, who was married and lived elsewhere with her husband.
Starting point is 01:10:54 Kathy and four-year-old Phyllis were the only members of the family left. Victor Hoffman was found not guilty by reason of insanity and ended up at Penitanguishing Mental Health Centre in Simcoe County, Ontario, where he stayed for over 30 years until his death by cancer in 2004, age 56. The update is that in August of 2023, Rawlco Radio in Saskatchewan released a new investigative podcast called The Shell Lake Massacre, which explores the story of the Peterson family more than 50 years after the massacre. The podcast is produced and hosted by Brittany Caffert, who grew up near Shell Lake and is related to
Starting point is 01:11:41 the Peterson family by marriage. She speaks with Kathy Hill, the eldest daughter, who shared intimate details of her family leading up to their deaths, and the events. surrounding the tragic incident. Kathy Hill took in her young sister Phyllis and raised her as one of her own children. As part of the podcast, Kathy provided many photos of the family which are on the CKOM website, link in the show notes. She also revealed that tragically, Phyllis passed away in 2019 after a brave battle with cancer. She was just 56 years old and was married with a son of her own. Kathy says that Phyllis made it clear that she didn't want to be buried in Shell Lake with her other family,
Starting point is 01:12:28 as she didn't want the story to be thrust into the spotlight again, so she was buried in an undisclosed location. Kathy Hill, now in her mid-70s, said she blames the system for the actions of Victor Hoffman that day, for releasing him from the psychiatric facility long before he was ready, and for not giving any information to his family about how to look after someone experiencing acute symptoms of psychosis. Kathy said she feels a deep sense of sympathy for the family of Victor Hoffman. Quote, Nobody cared about them.
Starting point is 01:13:05 Everyone felt sorry for our family, but nobody felt sorry for them. And they were portrayed as a poor old family that didn't know anything, and that really wasn't true. You don't know what your kids are going to turn out like. You have no idea what's going to happen eventually. All you can do is the best you can and hope for the best. The podcast is called The Shell Lake Massacre. Thanks for listening to these case updates episodes.
Starting point is 01:13:40 To learn more about any of these cases and to see the full list of resources we relied upon and anything else you want to know about the podcast, visit canadian truecrime.ca. As always, thank you so much for your kind rating reviews, messages and support. Audio editing was by Eric Crosby, who also voiced the disclaimer.
Starting point is 01:14:02 Our senior producer is Lindsay Eldridge and Carol Weinberg is our script consultant. Research, writing, narration and sound design was by me and the theme songs were composed by We Talk of Dreams. I'll be back in September with the start of our new season. See you then.

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