Canadian True Crime - The Murder of Frank and Jocelyn Toope

Episode Date: November 15, 2018

The car of a 75 year old retired Anglican minister and his 70 year old wife was found abandoned in a car park. A twisted tale would unravel...Also includes an update on Paul Bernardo's first parole hearing held in October 2018.Look out for early, ad-free release on CTC premium feeds: available on Amazon Music (included with Prime), Apple Podcasts, Patreon and Supercast. Full list of resources, information sources, credits and music credits:See the page for this episode at www.canadiantruecrime.ca/episodes Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hi everyone, just a couple of things before I start. I was thrilled to be a guest on a recent episode of the Canada Land podcast. You will have heard me talk about this show before. This is the group that is producing the Thunder Bay podcast. Their main show is about media criticism, news analysis and investigations in Canada, hosted by Jesse Brown. Canadians, you'll know him as the journalist who broke the Gian Giongameshi story. Anyway, I sat down with Jesse Brown in Canada Land's Toronto studio to talk about true crime podcasting in Canada, ethics in the genre, plus a couple of other things.

I hope you'll check out Canada Land. There is a link in the show notes. This podcast contains course language, adult themes, and content of a violent and disturbing nature. Listener discretion is advised. Before I start the story, I wanted to update you on Paul Bonado's parole hearing that happened in October in Bath, Ontario. If you're not Canadian, hopefully you'll remember Paul Bonado and Carla Hamulka from the first two episodes of this podcast, the so-called Ken and Barbie Killers. Carla served a reduced prison sentence under what was called the deal with the devil and was released years ago. But Paul is still there, a designated

dangerous offender convicted of two counts each of first-degree murder, kidnapping, forcible confinement, aggravated sexual assault, and one count of committing an indignity to a human body. He and Carla's victims were teenagers Leslie Mahaffi, Kristen French, and of course Carla's little sister Tammy Hamoka, not to mention the minimum of 24 other women that Paul Bonado admitted to raping before he met Carla. His parole hearing came just weeks after he was cleared of a minor weapons charge, having a shank in his cell. The general consensus was that he was framed. He spends his time in solitary confinement and really has no use for a shank. Plus, with his parole hearing coming up, it wouldn't have been the best move. For more than two hours at his parole hearing,

54-year-old Paul Bonato begged for his freedom, throwing out various reasons to explain what led him to commit his crimes. He had feelings of inadequacy. a speech impediment as a child, and anxiety over his sexual performance which led to self-esteem, and according to him, these caused him to do what he did. In the parole hearing, it came up that in 2014, Paul Bernardo was in a five-week relationship with a woman who came to visit him in prison several times. There was a suggestion of conjugal visits, but because he has a right to privacy, neither the Parole Board of Canada nor Correctional Services Canada would confirm if he had conjugal visits or not.

The media brought up how unfair it was that Bernardo, a diagnosed psychopath and sexual sadist, may have been allowed these privileged visits and without the public knowing about it. At the hearing, a psychiatrist spoke about becoming alarmed during that time because Paul began masturbating incessantly and spoke in therapy about sexually assaulting his visitor in the same way that he assaulted his victims all those years ago. The court heard heart-wrenching victim impact statements from the mothers of Kristen French and Leslie Mahaffey. Leslie's mother Debbie said, quote,

Preparing for this parole hearing has been gut-wrenching for our family. We have to relive Leslie's pain and horror, our pain and horror. our pain and horror, as if it happened yesterday. It is a nightmare. The pain, despair and anguish is crushing and debilitating. The healing we have worked so hard to achieve has been ripped apart, just like Leslie was by Bernardo. The panel only took 30 minutes to decide that Paul Bonado's parole was denied.

But he can apply again in two years, no doubt sending the families of his victims back on, to the roller coaster of grief and despair. And as for Carla, as far as the public knows, she's still living the life of suburban stay-at-home mom in Montreal. And now, on to today's episode. Beaconsfield is a suburb on the island of Montreal, Quebec. It's part of the Greater Montreal region,

locally referred to as the West Island, and is known as a prestigious middle-class residential community. but Beaconsfield has a dark history. Between 1995 and 2006, multiple homicides and murder suicides took place inside homes that were all within half a kilometre of each other. Most of them involved middle-aged men killing their wives and children and then killing themselves.

The area would be come to known as the Bermuda Triangle of Beaconsfield. In 1968, a family of four arrived in Montreal. Frank Toop, his wife Jocelyn, and two kids had travelled from Trinity Bay, Newfoundland. That was Frank's hometown. Jocelyn was born in Britain. Their kids were Stephen, who was 10 years old, and Alison, who was six. The family lived like any other family. There were good times and tough times, and they stuck together.

Frank ended up a tenured Anglican priest, rector of St Mary's Anglican Church in Kirkland, the next suburb over from his Beaconsfield home, until he retired in 1989. By all accounts, he was well known and well loved in the area, and even had a street in Kirkland named after him, a rare thing to do when a person is still alive. By speaking to those close to the family, it's easy to see why. Frank Toup was said to have given local community groups the use of his church before they were big enough to have their own facilities. He was described as a decent man. He and Jocelyn, a great couple.

A long-time parishioner said Frank would go out of his way to make people feel at home, and Jocelyn was just as kind. In 1995, Frank had been retired for about six years and was enjoying his time with Jocelyn. kids Stephen and Alison had long since flown the coop. Stephen was 37 and was enjoying a distinguished academic career that led him to becoming Dean of McGill University's law school. Alison was 33 and married, but was a private person. Just after midnight on Sunday, April 2, 1995, Frank and Jocelyn Toop were sound asleep in their home in Beaconsfield, Quebec.

Welcome to Canadian True Crime, Episode 35. The next day, Montreal Police received a complaint about an abandoned car in a restaurant parking lot. When they traced the licence plate, they discovered it belonged to Frank and Jocelyn Toop. They went to the elderly couple's house to conduct a welfare check. Their home was located on a busy street, and the back door of their bungalow, or one-story house, had been broken into. The police quickly noticed that the house had been ransacked. Something was not right here. The bodies of Frank and Jocelyn Toop were found in their bedroom.

Homicide Detective Lieutenant Jean-Francois-Marin described the scene as one of the most gruesome he'd ever witnessed. Quote, it was grim. There was a lot of blood in there, signs of a lot of violence. At first, police believed the motive was burglary. During the ransacking of the house, items taken included a radio, jewelry and about $100 in cash, and of course, the Toop's car that was found abandoned in the car park. But it wasn't just about burglary, and it didn't take long for a shocking story to emerge.

The next day, at a nearby high school, teenagers started reporting to friends and family that fellow students had been bragging about some disturbing things. One, just 13 years old, had boasted to members of his hockey team, including some adult coaching staff about the brutal murder of an elderly couple in his involvement. Another kid, 14 years old, showed off a bloody baseball bat. He commented he just wanted to see what it felt like to kill somebody. It was a thrill kill and robbery was an afterthought. Before long, Skiddle.

School kids were showing up to the police station to report what they'd heard. All tips were pointing towards three boys aged 13, 14 and 15, being responsible for the brutal deaths of Frank and Jocelyn Toop. The boys were picked up and brought to the station. They were said to have been defiant about the whole thing. One arresting officer said that the two of them were making jokes in the back of the police car on the way to the station. Canada has a long history of disagreements on how the criminal justice system treats young offenders,

with controversy centering on what the best approaches and also the severity of punishment. As we know, under the Young Offenders Act that was in effect at the time, the publication of the identities of youth who committed criminal acts was banned, with the reason that youth are entitled to special consideration and should not be labelled, or made to bear a stigma for acts they carried out at an immature age. So the identities of the boys were not released. But it came out that they all had a history of recurring difficulties at home and at school. Initially, only the two oldest boys were put under arrest,

accused of bludgeoning the tubes. They were both known to police and had experience being in trouble with the law. At the police station, the two old men, older boys told their story separately, and although there were some contradictions, they agreed on many important points. Before they broke into the Toops' house, they had consumed alcohol and drugs. One said marijuana, and the other said LSD. The 15-year-old, the oldest of the three, was wielding a baseball bat. They said they'd spoken about it the night before, after one of them said he wanted to kill someone,

another said he knew an elderly couple who lived alone. The boys entered the house with the bat and beer bottles to use as weapons. First, they said they stole gloves from the garage. The 14-year-old said that as they put on the gloves, he had commented that, the police don't take fingerprints for break and enters, but they do for murders. A forewarning of their intention.

He added, though, that he meant it as a joke. The three made their way upstairs. It was the early hours of the morning. The 15-year-old and the 13-year-old entered the bedroom of 75-year-old Frank and his wife, 70-year-old Jocelyn, where they found the couple asleep. According to the 15-year-old, Jocelyn woke up first and saw a stranger next to the bed, the 13-year-old. Who are you?

He raised his arms and brought a beer bottle crashing down onto her head. He did it again and again, joined by the 15-year-old and his baseball bat. Jocelyn was struck eight times in total, five of these being the blows to her head that killed her. It happened in a split second and Frank began to stir. The 15-year-old said he hit Frank three times in the back of his neck with the baseball bat. Other blows hit Frank's face, arm, hands and chest. By the third swing, Frank slumped on the bed. They were both battered beyond recognition.

The three boys fled the house without a second thought of whether they should call for help for the tops. As they ran, the reality of what they'd done sank in. The 14-year-old would say, the only thing said was to keep quiet and not talk about it. On April 5, 1995, three days after the murder of the Toops, all three boys were charged with first-degree murder. The Crown Prosecutor said, quote, three young men decided to kill people. The 13-year-old had only just turned 13 and seemed shell-shocked. Quote, to him, it was like being in a movie as though everything wasn't quite real. But the prosecutor went on to describe how the other judge.

two boys seemed to be enjoying themselves. They raised middle fingers for the television cameras and, according to court officials, played cards as they waited to be formally charged. Quote, I have never seen a case where an adolescent killed just for the sake of killing. The media also spoke to school friends of the boys who reported they'd said they were planning to commit another murder only shortly before they were arrested. quote, it was a bit like they'd lost all fear. They had gone completely nuts. The public were outraged about the case,

and of course the publication ban that was in effect. They wanted to know who these three kids were. Hopeless to do much else, the local community organized fundraisers that raised money to go to charities that Frank and Jocelyn supported. Students wrote, Frank and Jocelyn Toop were known by many,

and loved by all. Mr. Toop was known to a number of the students not only as their minister, but also as their friend, having personally baptized and confirmed many of them. The fact that the Toops live so near to the school touches the entire student body and brings the chilling reality of such brutal crimes closer to home. Police investigators themselves were shocked. One spoke to the media, declaring it a big joke. to the offenders. Quote, they said they did it for kicks.

Residents of Beaconsfield couldn't understand how something like this could happen. Grant Thomas, the vice principal of Beaconsfield High School at the time, was also a close personal friend of the Toops. He couldn't quite believe that it had happened, but said, quote, interestingly enough,

the three individuals involved were my first choices. On April 8, 1995, six days after the murders, more than 1,300 mourners attended the funeral of Frank and Jocelyn Toop, filling the Christchurch Cathedral and overflowing out into the grounds. The Quebec legislature even paused to honour the tubes. The couple were described as kind and loving. Cannon Barry Clark told the crowd, We are here because we want to honour and respect.

Frank and Jocelyn, because in their death they were neither honored nor respected. He went on to say that a large crowd had gathered to mourn our shattered illusion that our suburbs are immune to violence and evil. We are here to grieve our loss of innocence. A nearby resident who was an associate of Franks said that like everyone, he was struggling to find a reason for the murder, and it was hard to find. That said, he added that he did not feel the need for revenge, and that Frank Toop wouldn't have either. Quote, if this had happened to someone else, Frank would not have been vindictive. He would have been as confused as we all are, but he would certainly have wanted to come and do what we're all doing here today.

And that's a tribute to the man he was and the memory he leaves behind. The autopsy results suggested that the Toop's cause of death was repeated blows to the head with a baseball. They both died from their head wounds. Frank Toot was also repeatedly hit on the face, chest, arms and hands, suggesting that he may have been trying to fend off his attacker. The elderly couple had tried desperately to defend themselves. In early 1996, the 13-year-old and youngest of the three went to trial first, pleading not guilty. The trial went for a month and took. painted a shocking picture of young teens addicted to drugs and alcohol, bludgeoning two elderly

people and upstanding citizens and leaving them to bleed to death. The 13-year-old testified in his own defence, saying that he and one of the other boys, the 15-year-old, had targeted the Toop's house for a burglary because they wanted any cash and items they could sell on the street. The 14-year-old also testified, but he was a man. gave police another reason why the couple had been targeted. He said he'd been their paper boy and that they had been stingy with tipping him. He told the police that the toops were cheap people. The 15-year-old also testified, saying that he and the other two didn't intend on murdering the couple when they broke in. He said they believed the house would be empty and planned

to commit a burglary. He said the only reason why he brought a bat with him was, was to open a window. He added that even if they were at home, the troops were elderly and that they would find it difficult to defend themselves or to call the police, inferring that the burglary would have gone ahead regardless. The 15-year-old went on to say he wasn't aware of who they were. He admitted that he hit Frank once with the baseball bat and saw him fall on his bed. Quote, it wasn't a full swing. He claimed he didn't know until later that they had done. died. Quote, it was quite a shock. I had a grandmother that age. I couldn't do something like that to someone her age. He testified that he bolted from the house, while the 13-year-old continued to

beat the troops to death. Under the Young Offenders Act, suspects enjoy more legal protection than adults do. For this reason, the judge ruled several pieces of evidence presented by the Crown as inadmissible, including conversations that the 13-year-old had with adults at the school, like the conversations with his hockey team coaches, as well as the voluntary statements that he gave to police. These rulings meant that the Crown had to rely largely on forensic evidence, like the bloody baseball bat and the testimony of the two other teens. The defense asserted that the Crown had failed to prove

that the boys intended to commit murder that night. At most, the defence said that the 13-year-old could be found guilty of manslaughter, and then only if the judge decides that the boy could have foreseen that the robbery would lead to the killings. This isn't what happened. The 13-year-old was found guilty of second-degree murder, meaning that the act was not considered to be premeditated. He received the maximum under the Young Offenders Act, three years in closed custody followed by two years of supervision.

After sentencing, the Crown prosecutor said, quote, he was a time bomb that finally went off. Six months later, in May of 1996, the older two boys pleaded guilty to second-degree murder and were also sentenced to the maximum of three years in closed custody. They would live at a detention centre that housed more than 20 of Montreal's most violent English-speaking young offenders. There, they would participate in a pioneering rehabilitation project

that was described as trying to provide different choices so that they don't always respond with violence. A month after sentencing, the mayor of Beaconsfield, Roy Kemp, said residents were worried about the day when the trio would be released. Quote, you can't rehabilitate someone who's done this in three years. The three boys each served their sentences and were released from the system when they were 16, 17 and 18. Part of the conditions of their release was that they had to remain in the province of Quebec for two years. In 2009, author and local Beaconsfield resident Marsha Wallace wrote an op-ed piece for the digital journal called

Remembering the Toops 14 years later. She spoke about how difficult it was to locate information on the murders, saying the names of the three boys appeared nowhere and the nature of their crimes was hidden. Quote, Our beautiful piece of absurd legislation, the Young Offenders Act, every day protects the names of these three provably unrepentant killers

from reaching the ears of concerned Canadian citizens. Nearly everyone I know still talks about the Toops, and how easily their teenage killers got off. Were they rehabilitated after three years? Normally, we would never know what became of them because of the publication ban. But in this particular case, the story of the three boys wasn't over yet.

Five years after the murder of the Toops, less than two years after the three boys were released, the oldest of the boys, the 15-year-old, had another run-in with the police. The man was apprehended while he was driving around in Toronto in the year 2000. The cops saw the truck he was in was stolen and was in fact being looked for in connection with an armed robbery of a bar in Montreal. They pulled the truck over and in it they found machetes, bandanas and belliclavas.

The 15-year-old, now 20, was charged with having a concealed weapon in the car. It's not publicly known what happened with the. armed robbery, but this wasn't the end of it. There were two others in the car with him, and one of them was the 14-year-old who participated in the murder of Frank and Jocelyn Toop, the second oldest of the three. And at the time, the public had no idea that any of this was happening after their release. Nor did they know that just six months later, the same man and three friends, again, including the 14-year-old, mugged a man. in downtown Montreal, who was walking to his car after having drinks with a friend.

In 2002, the 15-year-old, now aged 22, was charged with being in possession of property obtained through crime. He was able to enter a guilty plea for both the mugging and this new crime, which saw him fined $1,250 and sentenced to two years in jail. Five years later, in 2007, he was back at it again, pleading guilty to new assault and drug possession charges as well as uttering threats. He received a suspended sentence of two years probation. The next year, he pleaded guilty to an assault charge from 2005 and received a six-month prison term. And the 15-year-old, now 30 years old, wasn't done yet. On December 1st, 2010, he was driving during a severe thunderstorm

and crashed into a parked tractor trailer in Montreal. The passenger in his car, 38-year-old Derek Pyon, was killed instantly. Paramedics and police, who were first on scene, reported smelling alcohol and saw at least one empty beer can in the car. The windshield wipers on the car had clearly, broken and were only crudely attached in a misguided repair job, adding to his incompetence when driving through the thunderstorm. The driver was charged with impaired driving causing death, and at the scene he refused to undergo a breathalyzer. Witnesses to the aftermath of the accident

saw him crying uncontrollably as he realized that he had caused the death of his passenger. The Quebec court judge granted him release on bail, on the condition that he undergo a six-month therapy program while residing at a therapy centre not far from downtown Montreal. As part of his conditions of release after that six months, he was supposed to report into police regularly, but he didn't. In June of 2011, while out on this release, he showed up at his ex-girlfriend's home,

punched her, and then strangled her. During the attack, he found a friend of first. photograph of the woman's new boyfriend and set it on fire while threatening to burn down her home. The woman managed to break free and got help. That assault put him back in jail. And then in May of 2012, he had another bail release hearing. And that's when his identity was released to the public and the whole picture became clear. The 15-year-old, the oldest of the kids involved in the murders of Frank and Jocelyn Toop was now a 32-year-old with a lengthy criminal record named Ryan Patrick McPhee. His crimes were discussed at length during his release hearing and he was asked

to explain his role in the murder of the Toops. His face was described as having turned crimson as he explained again that he didn't bring the bat to murder someone he only thought it was going to be a robbery. He swung the bat and ran off, he said, thinking that the Toops was still alive. The prosecutor asked him if he regretted what he did. Quote, of course, there isn't a day in my life that I haven't thought about it. When he was asked why he didn't check in with the police, as per the conditions of his release, he said he had anxiety attacks every time he approached the building. quote, my heart beats at 100 miles an hour, I get to the police station and I want to open the door, but I can't.

He also added that he's dealing with a serious problem with alcohol. His defence lawyer said his client suffered from painful flashbacks of his youth. He offered the details that Ryan's father died when he was a toddler and that he grew up under difficult conditions. This is all that it's publicly known about the same. situation though. The judge was lenient on Ryan yet again, granting him release under the same conditions as last time, six months at the treatment facility. Quote, I don't think you understand the importance of the chances you've been given in the past. You will have to follow your conditions

to the letter. He didn't. Staff detected the smell of beer on Ryan twice in one week when he reported in at night, and when he caused unspecified problems with the staff, he was expelled from the treatment centre. As part of his conditions of release, he was supposed to report his expulsion to police and report into them regularly, but again, he didn't. He, in fact, completely disappeared, severely breaching the conditions of his release. In October of 2012, an arrest warrant was issued for him with the media releasing alerts to the public. They reported that he was about 190 pounds and six feet in height, with brown hair that was partially bald and blue eyes. The photo that they released of him showed him with a goatee. The next month, he failed to make a court date. In April of

2012, four months later, Montreal police were called to investigate an armed assault. Ryan McPhee was involved. The police quickly realized he was the one they were looking for and arrested him. A year later, in April of 2014, Ryan McPhee appeared in a Montreal court with the judge ordering that he'd be detained. Later that year, he had his trial for the car crash that killed his passenger. He was charged with impaired driving causing death. Ryan broke into tears as he turned to face the parents of Derek Pyon, the passenger who had been killed in his car. 38-year-old Derek had left behind a teenage son.

Ryan said to his parents, quote, I'm really sorry for what happened. I've been wanting to talk to you since this happened, but people told me not to, that it would make it worse. I wish I had trusted my instincts. He told Derek's parents that he'd pulled their son out of the wreckage and tried to bring him back, but wasn't able to. Derek's mother, Teresa, replied, You ruined our lives. What were our son's last words? Do he say something or die right away?

She then told Ryan, despite this, she hoped he would do well when he got out of jail, and she hoped he would be able to take care of the daughter that he had. quote, we have a grandson who is 13 and won't see his father again. Ryan McPhee's sentence was agreed to by both the defence and prosecution. He received four years prison time, minus time already served, and a three-year driving ban. That was 2014. In February of 2017, he reached his statutory release date and the parole board ruled that he could be released to a half-for-release. Wayhouse. But just three months later, he was gone again, before being arrested another three

months later by police in the town of St. Catherine's, Ontario. Ryan went back to court in December of 2017, where his parole was revoked. According to the parole board's written summary, Ryan had continued to act with violence while behind bars. He was described as having been involved in altercations with other inmates, intimidating correctional service Canada personnel, and had to be transferred to a maximum security penitentiary in May 2015. Quote, your behaviour while under supervision in the community has been dismal. You have made no progress to address your risk factors, although you had the opportunity to do so through counselling and programming.

Instead, you decided to abscond for a period of three months, until you arrest. The parole board went on to say that Ryan offered poor credibility to respect parole conditions. Quote, you have showed violent behavior on a number of occasions and have caused the death of three people throughout your criminal life. Ryan's case management team, the group of people who helped prepare an inmate for release, stated they noticed a change in his attitude the year before. He seemed to be open to address issues that contributed to his criminality

and asked to start seeing a psychologist. But the written report from the Parole Board said Ryan hadn't participated in any rehabilitation programs because of his misbehavior. Quote, Therefore, your risk of recidivism, or re-offending, and your dangerousness levels have not changed. The board cannot see observable and measurable changes. As far as is publicly known, Ryan McPhee is still in jail. So that was what happened to the 15-year-old,

the oldest boy involved in the murder of the tubes. But court records show that Ryan McPhee was not the only one of the three youths to later re-offend as adults. As we know, the 14-year-old was involved in several of Ryan's early crimes. The mugging of the man in Montreal in 1999, and being in the car with Ryan when he was found with a machete, possibly connected to the armed robbery. In 2001, at age 20, he was sentenced to a 30-month prison term for his involvement in the mugging, but there has been no further information about him and his identity was never released. And lastly, the 13-year-old, the youngest.

the one who, according to the two older boys, actually murdered Frank and Jocelyn Toop. During his youth court hearing in 1999 to set conditions for his release, he made a statement. Then, age 16, he thanked the prosecutor in the case for the sentence he received. Quote, because of what you did, it changed my life from what I was before and what I am now. He claimed that the sentence had made him a better person. Unfortunately, a year later, age 17, he was charged with violating his probation. And then, in November of 2000, at age 18, he was caught by the Montreal Police while in possession of cocaine. Nothing further is publicly known about what he is up to now either.

In 2003, the Young Offenders Act was replaced by the Youth Criminal Justice Act. One of the catalysts for this change was the case of 15-year-old Jonathan Wambach in Newmarket, Ontario, a town north of Toronto. In June of 1999, Jonathan was taking the family dog for a walk when he was swarmed by a gang of teenage boys. They kicked him so hard that they shattered his skull and broke his jaw. They then left him to die. Luckily he didn't, but he needed emergency surgery and spent six months recovering in a hospital, three of which were in a coma. When he woke, his intellect and memory were intact,

but he needed to learn how to walk and talk again. Years of physio followed. Three boys, two-scentrales. 17-year-olds and a 16-year-old were charged in the attack, but the charges were downgraded from attempted murder to aggravated assault. Jonathan's father Joe was shocked by how the Young Offenders Act minimized the consequences of the brutal crime committed against his son by the gang of teenagers. Quote, a 19-year-old who steals $500 out of your house

will spend more time in jail than a 17-year-old who murders your son. Is there something wrong with what we are telling people today? The new Youth Criminal Justice Act came into force in 2003 and introduced reforms to address various concerns with the previous legislation. The overarching goal of the Act was to ensure that youth offender treatment was proportionate, community-based and used the least restrictive option. Among the changes were an increase in the number of measures to deal with, with crimes other than incarceration, like police warnings,

and a referral to restorative justice agencies that see the young offender facing their victim and the victim's family. Also deferred custody orders, whereby a young person can avoid jail time with good behavior. The act also established that the court process was reserved for more serious offenses, and just as importantly, it also recognized the need to take, take a better look into the interests of the victims,

which the Young Offenders Act failed to do. But the new act still has a lot of critics who say it's too lenient on young offenders. And the publication bans remain, meaning the cases are still shrouded in mystery. The public generally doesn't know what happens to these young offenders when they're released unless they commit other serious crimes,

as in the story of Frank and Jocelyn too. Alison Tooppe, the younger daughter of the couple, is now 56 and still a private person. Stephen Toop, the older son, does not have the same story. He is now 60 years old and married with three adult children. He's had a very distinguished career as an academic and is currently the vice-chancellor of the University of Cambridge in the United Kingdom. In fact, he was the first non-British person. to be placed in the position.

Stephen himself studied in Cambridge back when he was at university and recalled how his parents came to visit him on campus their first and only overseas trip. He remembered their sense of awe and wonder when they visited him and says it was a bittersweet memory that he'll cherish forever. He was asked about the murder of his parents and how he coped. He said that at the time, his faith was what enabled him to continue, and he decided not to let the killers make a victim

of him too. Quote, evil exists, and we can't always prevent it, but I never wanted to be a victim. I chose to just get on with my life. Thanks for listening, and special thanks to end your best for researching this case for me. Thank you to everyone who has sent me messages of support and left reviews and ratings for my show. I really appreciate it. I'm on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. Just search for Canadian True Crime. And if you are interested in ad-free episodes that are released early, you can sign up to my Patreon for just $2 a month to access my exclusive feed. Just go to p-a-t-r-e-on.com slash Canadian True Crime. Today's podcast recommendation is a brand new one from my friend Nina Instead from already gone.

She is doing a deep dive into the Oakland County child murders and her show is already gathering up quite the buzz. From January 1st, 1976, through the end of March, 1977, the Metro Detroit area was the site of nine child murders. Three of those cases are resolved. the other six cases remain open, with most of these deaths attributed to the as-yet-unidentified Oakland County child killer. Don't Talk to Strangers is a long-form podcast focused on this series of unresolved child murders. Join us as we explore the stories of these young victims, the impact on their families and the community, and what happened to the investigation into these crimes. Subscribe to Don't Talk to Strangers on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher,

or your favorite podcatcher. This episode, I am saying a huge thank you to these patrons. Violet L. and Estasia D. Molly S. Shannon S. High Shags. Ursula S. Sam W. S. Andrea G. Amy W. Maxine P. Christy R. and Sam R. This episode of Canadian True Crime was researched by Anya Best, written by me,

and audio production was by Eric Crosby. The host of the Beyond Bazaar True Crime podcast, voiced the disclaimer, and the Canadian true crime theme song was written by We Talk of Dreams. I'll be back soon with another Canadian true crime story. See you then.