Canadian True Crime - The Murder of Kirk Morin

Episode Date: December 15, 2019

In 2015, RCMP near Fort St John pulled up a white pickup truck for a routine traffic stop. The woman driving it was not the owner. As the RCMP investigated, a strange story unravelled.Look out for early, ad-free release on CTC premium feeds: available on Amazon Music (included with Prime), Apple Podcasts, Patreon and Supercast. Full list of resources, information sources, credits and music credits:See the page for this episode at www.canadiantruecrime.ca/episodes Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hi everyone, just giving you a heads up. After this episode, I'm going to take a one episode break in a likely ill-fated attempt to relax a bit with my family over the holiday season. I will be back on January the 15th. Thank you so much for understanding and thank you also for all of your support over this year. Canadian True Crime is a little show that started as a passion project out of my closet in Burlington, Ontario. And things have just snowballed organically from there. Although it's still very much an independent podcast and I still have a day job. The show has seen some incredible growth this year and I was thrilled to again be picked for the Apple Podcast Canada Best Lists of 2019 List. This, coupled with all your lovely comments and reviews, makes it even more worthwhile. I appreciate each and every one of you. Thank you so much for listening. Whatever holiday you celebrate, I wish you all the best now and in the new year. And now on with the episode.

This podcast contains coarse language, adult themes, and content of a violent and disturbing nature. Listener discretion is advised. This story takes place in the northeastern part of British Columbia, close to the Alaska Highway. It was Sunday, September 6, 2015, and just before midnight, Fort St. John RCMP pulled over a white pickup. truck in the nearby municipality of Taylor. It was a routine traffic stop and they expected to move on from it relatively quickly. The pickup truck, which was a Dodge Julie, with double wheels on each back axle, was approaching Taylor from the direction of a popular community recreation area on the northern edge of town. There was a hall, an ice centre and a motocross track and speedway, and the area was

used day and night. In the evenings and especially on weekends, people would gather in the parking lot, drinking, and would often drive their all-terrain vehicles around near the speedway. And that's what they were doing this particular night. The Dodge pickup had just come from that area and pulled slowly over to the side of the road. An RCMP officer approached the driver's door to find a woman in the truck alone. Her name was Lisa Meal and she was 24 years old. She told them she wasn't the owner of the pickup. It actually belonged to a man she had met earlier that evening. She told the officer that she'd left him back near the community centre at midnight and had driven off with his truck. Strangely, Lisa was also wearing the man's overalls. The strange story got the attention of the

officers. When they questioned Lisa further, she told them that the man had attempted to rape her. The next piece of information shocked them. She told them that she had killed him. She went to the RCMP car and was taken back up along the highway to show them the parking lot area behind the community center, where she said she and the man had been. The RCMP didn't really know what to do with Lisa until they involved. investigated her strange story further. On the easement near the corner of the Alaska Highway and Cherry Avenue, close to the recreation area, the police found the mutilated body of the owner of the truck.

His name was Kirk Moran and he was 51 years old. His injuries were so severe that although officers would make their assumptions, an autopsy would be needed to establish exactly how he'd been killed. This is Christy and you're listening to Canadian True Crime, Episode 57. The arresting officer took Lisa Meal to the station as the entire intersection and recreation area was cordoned off for investigation. By the next morning, RCMP officers guarded the area as the Prince George Major Crime Unit came in to investigate. While the autopsy and toxicology reports were being prepared, The crime scene was processed and Lisa Meal was held and questioned.

According to Lisa, for a couple of hours before Kirk's death, there'd been parked in his truck in the parking lot, drinking together. She explained that he showed her his belt where he carried a hunting knife and she felt like he was going to harm her with it. So she took a machete out of her own backpack and stabbed him first. But police had doubts over portions of Lisa's story. She first told them that Kirk had tried to rape her, and then came this hunting knife story,

and some of it wasn't matching up with the information that they'd received from the scene of the crime. If this was a case of self-defense, as Lisa described, they needed to understand the intricacies of what had happened before, during, and after the event. Blood had been found on the ground right by where Lisa said the pickup had been parked, and it appeared to have been partially cleaned up. The problem was Kirk's body was found at the side of the highway,

350 meters away. The autopsy would reveal that Kirk had been stabbed over 50 times in the side, front, back, face and head. It was established that, that he had died at the location that he was found. But because Blood had also been located in the parking lot and in the front seat of the car, it was clear that the attack had started in the car

and continued over a distance of four football fields to where it ended in his death. So what had happened? Lisa elaborated on her story, first telling the officers how she and Kirk met. She said that around 7pm that evening, that's three and a half hours before Kirk was killed, she was attempting to ride her bike south to the city of Grand Prairie, Alberta. This ride would have taken around 10 hours on a bike.

As she rode through Taylor, a man in a truck pulled over and offered to give her a ride. It was Kirk Morin, and they were strangers to each other. Lisa was under the impression that he was. would just be taking her a fairly short distance to the top of South Taylor Hill, but she said Kirk, who had been drinking, insisted that they keep driving. Just past Taylor en route to Grand Prairie is the old Kiscatinaw Bridge, an iconic curved wooden bridge built in 1942 when the US Army required a way to cross the river. It was the first curved timber bridge built in Canada,

and has a nine-degree curve that engineers designed to accommodate a steep grade in the landscape. Even though the newer route of the nearby Alaska Highway became the preferred river crossing, people still like to take a detour to view and walk the old Kisgatnor Bridge, check out the scenery and walk down under the iconic bridge to the river. It was here that Lisa said Kirk drove and they parked. They chose to stay at least a couple of hours, drinking beers, and they realized they were both living in the city of Fort St John, 18 kilometres to the north on the other side of Taylor.

According to Lisa, she wanted to leave the bridge area, but Kirk didn't, which caused an argument. By this time, she said she realized he was quite drunk, and so she tried to talk him into having her drive the pickup truck back to Taylor, aborting her original plans to cycle on to Grand Prairie. Lisa said she bargained with Kirk that if he let her drive back to Taylor, she would have sex with him when they got there. She explained to police that this was only brought on by his level of inebriation

and her nervousness at allowing him to drive in that condition. Kirk apparently agreed and Lisa drove the pickup truck back to Taylor, first pulling over so Kirk could refuel from a tank of gas he had in the back of the truck. After that, they drove on to the parking lot of the recreation center where they arrived just before 10pm. What happened next is the continuation of Lisa's view of events. In the truck, the two continued to talk. At some point, Kirk leaned into the back where he said he kept condoms, and around this point is when he showed her the hunting knife on his belt.

Lisa said she became frightened. She told police that he drew the knife holding it close to her face, while he said some things about young women and taxidermy that scared her. She went on to say that she got a feeling that he'd harmed other women and was now about to harm her, so she took the machete from her backpack and stabbed him in his side. She said they both ended up outside the truck in a struggle. She said again that her intention was to kill him.

The next day, while Kirk's body was being formally identified, police tried to gather information based on Lisa's account. Firstly, they needed to find evidence that Lisa was provoked. And secondly, they were faced with the issue that during questioning, she'd repeatedly stated to police that she had attacked Kirk, with intention to kill, which posed a problem. Here's why. Under Canadian law, if Lisa was unlawfully attacked by Kirk without having provoked the assault,

she may be justified and repelling that force by using force herself. It was also important to establish whether she'd felt an immediate risk of death. If the self-defense is deemed to be warranted, there are stipulations on that too. It must be no more than necessary to fend off the attack, and it can't be with the intention to cause death or grievous bodily harm. So Lisa stating that she intended to kill Kirk made this tricky. Also, even before establishing the facts leading up to the murder, it was difficult to prove self-defense when the evidence suggested otherwise.

It showed that a sustained attack had occurred over a long, distance, where Kirk had likely been running away from Lisa to escape his eventual fate of being stabbed approximately 50 times. The RCMP needed more information. Crime Stoppers reached out to the public in hopes that someone had seen the pair that night. There were a number of cars off-roading in the area, and maybe there'd been people who saw them earlier on the evening on their trip from Taylor to the old Kisgatinaw Bridge and back. The RCMP appealed for anyone to come forward who saw the white Dodge pickup, especially in the vicinity of the community centre. And then they began hunting down CCTV and security camera footage. Fifty-one-year-old Kirk Morin was born in Fort St. John,

a small city of just over 20,000 people, about 17 kilometres north of. of Taylor, where he met Lisa Meal for the first time that fateful night. Kirk lived in the city with his family, his wife, and his four children. At the time of his death, he also had two grandchildren. Kirk worked as a pipeliner, a specialist job that is responsible for preparing locations for pipeline to be laid. In between his pipeline projects, Kirk set up a market garden in South Taylor with his wife and a friend. As public tributes for Kirk began to be released online,

stories were shared of a dedicated family man who lived for his loved ones and had many long-time friendships. Those who had worked with him described him as loving and generous, a great person and a hard worker. An old friend spoke of having known Kirk since the first grade, describing him as an encouraging friend and a strong long-distance runner. In their adult lives, they'd worked together on pipeline projects, and he believed that Kirk would, quote, give the shirt off his back to someone in need. A GoFundMe was quickly set up to fund a memorial for Kirk,

which would raise $2,500.000. 24-year-old Lisa was also living in Fort St. John. According to court records, Lisa had originally moved from New Brunth, over four years beforehand, first settling in Grand Prairie, Alberta, before moving north to Fort St. John. But at the time of the incident, Lisa was unemployed and living in a homeless shelter. In fact, she'd been bouncing between shelters and hospitals for over a year at that point. Lisa's employment history was a long list compiled of 47 past positions.

According to her, she'd left. each job for the purpose of taking a better one, but admitted that she'd been fired from some positions because of conflict. From a gas station attendant, a door-to-door salesperson, a nanny, a cement crew labourer as well as a safety administrator, her most recent job in Fort St John was a surveying assistant. She'd informed her supervisor that she had developed romantic feelings for him and that she believed he felt the same way. The supervisor didn't and terminated Lisa's position. Police were unable to reach any next-of-kin or family of Lisa's

and had trouble tracking people down who knew her. Lisa seemed to be completely alone. Despite this, a brief history of her life was established, starting with the understanding that she had been adopted out as a young child, although at this point this was all that was known. While interviewing Lisa, authorities found she had relatively disorganised thoughts, so establishing a timeline of her life in the lead-up to the murder was difficult. But the police soon realized why her statements had been confusing and, at times, conflicting.

Lisa said that she'd been told by doctors a number of times in the past that she was delusional, and more than one of them had diagnosed her with schizophrenia. There was a possibility that Lisa's view on the situation that night, that Kirk was about to harm her, may not have been the reality. Reports showed that a doctor had told Lisa in the past that at times she appeared to experience Fragole syndrome, a rare disorder where a person believes that different people are in fact one single person. In the mind of the person experiencing it, the one person simply changes. their appearance as a disguise, when in reality it's actually a number of people. In Lisa's case, there were times even recently when she'd shown she did not recognize that her

biological mother, her adoptive mother, and her adoptive stepmother were three different people. She was convinced they were the same person, and like others who struggle with Fregoli syndrome, she also believed that this changing mother figure was out to harm her. Ten months earlier, at the end of 2014, the homeless shelter Lisa was in at the time, reported that she had consumed the household cleaning product, Pine Soll, in a bid to end her life. She was put into psychiatric care, where she was diagnosed with schizophrenia and described as being floridly psychotic, which roughly means she'd lost touch with reality. She was certified under British Columbia's Mental Health Act, meaning she couldn't leave the hospital without the doctor's

permission and couldn't refuse psychiatric treatment, including medication. During her time, she'd described herself as the New Jesus Coming and at one point stated, I should be a serial killer, but I'm not. Lisa began taking antipsychotic medication and over the next few months she showed a marked improvement. She was given discharge approval under the conditions that she would still be certified and had to continue outpatient treatment with a community doctor.

This was about six months before the night she met Kirk Morin. Lisa did continue her treatments. and after a few more months, she was decertified and released from supervision. But then, she stopped going to her appointments and she stopped her medical treatments. Lisa didn't believe she had any mental health problems. In fact, she often stated her belief that she was superior and that it was in fact everyone else that was inferior and she had no reason or need to be medicated.

She acknowledged that she didn't think like other people, but that was because she was on a different path. She took herself off all her antipsychotic injections. According to the forensic psychiatrist Dr David Morgan, who would meet with Lisa in the months that followed the attack on Kirk, quote, Once that antipsychotic was fully out of her body, she was exquisitely vulnerable to suffering a relapse

in her illness. Lisa's delusions returned and began presenting as those of the erotomanic type, which is when a person believes that another person is in love with them, when there is no rational reason for that to be true. In this case, the belief often leads to the person obsessing about the object of their delusion and sometimes stalking them. This could be seen in her last place of employment, where she told her, her supervisor that she had feelings for him and believed that he felt the same.

Around two years before this, Lisa had a casual sexual relationship with a man, until he ended it and requested that she no longer contact him. Lisa then began to display obsessive and stalking behaviors, continuously harassing him at his home and place of work, leaving gifts and constant messages. For months, she continued to declare her love for him and believed that he loved her too, but according to the man, this was not the case at all. Two years later, and six days before her frenzied attack on Kirk,

Lisa had again approached this man that she was stalking, and this time she physically assaulted him. He called the police to press charges and she was arrested. While in custody, Lisa was questioned and was unable to view the assault as inappropriate. She was released, but her delusions were now in full force. At the homeless shelter she was staying in in the days leading up to the attack on Kirk Moran, Lisa said that she'd started to fear for her life because she heard other residents talking about cannibalism, something which she found extremely distressing.

Back in the police station, Lisa was still explaining her version of what had happened to the RCMP. She explained that when she was in the pickup truck with Kirk, she believed that when he showed her his knife on his belt and spoke of women and taxidermy, he held the knife to her throat. There was no evidence that this had actually occurred, but they had to assume that it did. Lisa told the RCMP that she had an overwhelming feeling. feeling that Kirk had harmed women on the highway of tears, and she was going to be next. Kirk had not mentioned the victims from the highway of tears.

This was an assumption that Lisa had created. Meanwhile, the RCMP continued piecing together as much of the crime as possible. Assistance came from Fort St John General Investigation Section, Prince George Major Crime Unit and other local units. At this point, only Kirk's name had been released to the public, because Lisa couldn't be named until charges had been laid. And at this point, they couldn't figure out what she should be charged with, or if she should be charged at all. The public was again asked to come forward with anything at all that might help the investigation. Even though law enforcement had concerns over the validity of Lisa's claims,

they had to be open to what she was saying, even with her history of delusional thinking. What posed a problem, however, was that the information Lisa had given did not match up with the character profile they'd been building of Kirk Moran. The evidence from the scene had strongly suggested that it was Kirk who had been the victim, being chased at times during an attack that lasted some 20 minutes. There was no proof of provocation, and Lisa had of course been carrying a machete. The toxicology reports were in. Kirk's blood alcohol levels were found to have severely impacted his ability to understand or judge the situation,

and were around two and a half times the legal limit for driving. And then, surveillance video had been handed in that showed parts of the attack from a number of different angles of the parking lot. In the footage, Lisa could be seen on her knees on the passenger seat stabbing him in the side, at which point he must have opened the driver's side door trying to escape. Both were seen outside the truck struggling with each other before Lisa had Kirk down on the ground. This is where the blood was found in the car park. The footage showed Kirk escaping from underneath Lisa before she chased him in what the judge would later describe as a predatory fashion.

Kirk ran 350 metres before falling to the ground into a ditch along the easement. Lisa followed him into the ditch and struck him with her machete over and over and over. again. Over 50 times in total, with three of those strikes coming with such force from the back that they penetrated right through his chest wall. Lisa was then seen on camera returning to Kirk's body several times, checking his pulse, and at one point attempting to move the body before heading back to the parking lot, where she was captured attempting to wash the blood away. Lisa had originally told the officers who pulled her over that Kirk had attempted to rape her. She admitted that apart from him expecting the sex that she had bribed him with,

he had not overtly tried to physically advance himself on her. The RCMP removed attempted rape from her account of the story. Lisa was charged with second-degree murder and remanded in custody. Over the 18-month period that the case was progressing through the courts, Lisa was remanded in custody at the Prince George Regional Correction Centre, but she was admitted to the Forensic Psychiatric Hospital in Coquitlam twice. The facility, also known as FPH, is a 190-bed secure facility for people in the justice system who are being assessed or treated under British Columbia's Mental Health Act.

This includes those who have either been found unfit to stand trial due to a mental disorder or those who have either been found not criminally responsible for a crime or yet to be determined. As was the case with Lisa, people are also sent to FPH temporarily from correctional facilities so that they can be assessed or treated under the act. Reports state that Lisa was not receptive to either medical treatment or the suggestion that she should take medication. To her, the people were boring and she felt persecuted by the staff. She still did not believe she suffered from any mental health problems. After completing her two stays at FPH, she refused to speak to mental health professionals and psychologists.

She continued to disagree with her diagnosis of schizophrenia or any other associated disorder, believing that she'd been misdiagnosed. When asked to explain what she meant, she said that prior to killing Kirk Moran, she did not believe that death was real or permanent. While in prison, Lisa self-harmed, hitting her head on the pavement a number of times. Establishing a clear timeline of Lisa's past proved difficult and at trial the court mostly had to rely on her own account of her life. She did sign a release of information

so that her past foster parents and the New Brunswick Child Protection Service could all be contacted. Her former physician there was also contacted but did not reply to the request. Lisa was not willing to provide authorities with any details for her family members, including her adoptive father and mother. As for her biological mother, she'd had some minimal contact with her but no real relationship. According to Lisa, she was born in New Brunswick and at the age of three was adopted out.

She was reported as having a lack of attachment to her new family. Her adoptive mother reportedly passed away of diabetes shortly thereafter, and her adoptive father remarried. Lisa believed that this stepmother was evil, describing physical abuse as a child by this couple. There was some corroboration to the story. As a teenager, she requested that child services remove her from that care after a physical altercation. Her adoptive father had admitted to having slapped Lisa on the face. Lisa was then placed in foster care for three years up until the age of 19. Her foster carers described her as a loner

and noted that she had a lot of difficulty forming relationships and attachments. A psychiatric assessment conducted later by Dr. Evan Lopis stated that Lisa initially presented as being really. relatively functional and for the most part grounded in reality. But over time, there seemed to be a long-running theme of persecution in all aspects of her life. Quote, it was noted that when telling her childhood story, a Cinderella theme featured strongly. Her adoptive stepmother took the role of evil stepmother who would keep her locked up, forcing her to be the home servant while living in a house with sisters who were well treated and clearly given extravagant care.

As an early adult, Lisa moved to Grand Prairie and then later to Fort St John, and she had no further contact with either her adoptive father or adoptive stepmother since. When asked what she remembered of her childhood, Lisa said that her birth mother had suffered from Skissor, schizophrenia, and that was what led to her being adopted out. Although officials were unable to find a formal reason given for the removal of Lisa from her mother, Lisa insisted it was because her mother was experiencing thoughts of cannibalism. It was her belief that her mother had thoughts about Jeffrey Dahmer, and that the reason she was given up for adoption was that her mother was going to kill her and eat her.

This all became relevant to the case because, as you'll recall, in the moments before beginning her attack on Kirk Moran, she believed he'd begun talking about women and taxidermy, which made Lisa feel immediately threatened. In fact, she often referenced cannibalism. It was something she'd also brought up with police when she described being fearful in the homeless shelter shortly before the murder, and she agreed that at times she had been bothered by her own thoughts of cannibalism around the time of the murder. She also believed that the man she had been stalking had told her that his father had fed him human meat before. She went on to say that although she didn't know much about the highway of tears murders, she was convinced that Kirk was the offender and had harmed other women.

Lisa believed that it was her role to make the world a better place by getting rid of evil, and after deciding that he was probably the Highway of Tears killer, she needed to act in order to protect other girls and women. One of the letters she'd written to the former friend she had assaulted, prior to Kirk Morin's murder, said, quote, Another thing, yes, I am putting it in writing. If I get the chance to be bait for the fucks that must. murder innocent young girls and women, I am taking it. They will be torn to shreds by the time

I am done with them, as real as it gets. Crown prosecutor Dionne Pizzi presented Lisa as a calculated killer who had numerous opportunities to flee had she felt her life was in danger, including when she was driving the truck back to Taylor and when they stopped for Kirk to put gas in the truck. She also could have tried to leave while parked at the parking lot, but had not indicated that at any time she had attempted to do so. The Crown stated, The only person who needed to defend himself that night was Kirk Moran, and the only thing he had to defend himself with,

as he ran towards the Alaska Highway, were his hands and arms. As to whether Lisa had intended to kill Kirk, The jury heard that she'd carried the machete in her backpack and had not fled the scene after stabbing him the first time. Instead, she proceeded to chase him over 350 metres, stabbing him over four dozen times. Lisa Meals' defence lawyer, Sigrid Thompson, called only one witness to the stand, Dr David Morgan, the forensic psychiatrist who had interviewed Lisa before the trial. Through questioning, he confirmed that Lisa had been clinically diagnosed with schizophrenia and that at the time of the murder, she had not been taking any antipsychotic medication.

He testified that Lisa believed that people were out to intentionally harm her and that Kirk Morin was one of those people. He said that she was driven by fear and truly believed that she was under attack. He described Lisa's delusions as grandiose, in reference to her previous description of herself as the new Jesus coming to earth. Things with this witness didn't quite go as planned for the defence, though. Upon questioning, Dr Morgan went on to say that despite all of this, a defence of not being criminally responsible by way of mental illness was not applicable. It was his belief that Leigh-Morgan was not applicable. It was his belief that,

Lisa Meal was fit for trial. He brought up the fact that she had checked Kirk's pulse and tried to move his body after his death. Quote, what this tells me is that this person knew that what they were doing was legally wrong. She tried to tamper with evidence. Dr Morgan testified that he could not conclude that it was a mental disorder that drove the crime and in his words, Ms. Meal's behavior in terms of the nature.

nature of the wounds, that is an attack of sustained, focused brutality. Ms. Mille herself said to me in her interview that she intended to kill him, and that the wounds were there with that in mind. In closing arguments, Lisa's defense lawyer Sigrid Thompson spoke of the difficulties faced with the case, believing that it was clear that Lisa was driven by schizophrenia. Quote, fear, anger, mental impulsivity, unpredictability and disorganized thoughts. We submit that it is those factors in consideration of Mr. Moran's confinement of Ms. Meal for a period of hours and insistence on having sex with her whether she wanted to or not, that negate the intent for murder.

She urged the jury to support a verdict of manslaughter instead of second-degree murder. The Crown reminded the jury, quote, The only person in danger here was Mr. Moran. The jury deliberated for most of the day before reaching their verdict. Almost 18 months after the murder of Kirk Moran, they rejected Lisa Meal's claims of self-defense and that she was driven by her mental illness. Lisa Meal was found guilty of second-degree murder.

Under the criminal code, her minimum sentence would be 10 years, although it would be at the judge's discretion at sentencing if that would be increased. In preparation for sentencing, Justice Meeklem requested a pre-sentence report, or PSR, be carried out by a probation officer. A PSR is an investigation into a convicted person's history and is used to establish a person's. whether there are any extenuating circumstances which could affect sentencing. The report stated that Lisa had accepted responsibility for the murder, quote, she asserted that she believed at the time of the offence that Mr. Morin intended to harm her and that he was the Highway of Tears killer.

She claimed that he was making her very uncomfortable and alleged that he was holding a knife while speaking to her, which she interpreted to be a threat. She stated that she now realizes he may not have been the highway of tears killer after all and may not have been a danger to her. She noted that seeing the victim's children in court was very upsetting to her as she realized she had taken away their father. While she expresses remorse for her actions in killing the victim,

her comments suggest that she continues to view her actions as self-defense. For additional information to guide him in making his sentencing judgment, Justice Meeklem also requested a psychological assessment by psychologist Dr. Evan Lopez. During this assessment, Lisa revealed a little more about her past and her relationship history. She described that she'd never lived with a partner and explained that she was 19 when she first had sex. And then she described being raped by the uncle of the man she'd been in a relationship with at the time.

She described how she and her boyfriend had just broken up, but she had remained friends with his uncle and went over to his house. Quote, We were drinking and he threw me in bed and had his way with me. Lisa explained that she had not told her ex-boyfriend, about the assault by his uncle, and she also didn't report it to the police. Apart from saying that she didn't want to cause any problems, Lisa didn't know why she never reported it.

In the five years after this happened, leading up to the murder of Kirk Morin, Lisa frequented the dating website Plenty of Fish. She described how the website introduced her to over 250 sexual partners. but she found out the hard way that people were only using her for casual sex, not the long-term partner and a family she said she was looking for. When reporting on Lisa's current state, Dr Lopez reported that Lisa felt well within herself and was not at the time exhibiting any serious symptoms.

There were, however, clear underlying mental health issues. When Lisa was asked if she ever had ever heard, heard voices or had visual hallucinations, she said, quote, I've never heard or seen anything that wasn't true. Dr. Lopez noted that her strange answer format left open the possibility of hallucinations, which by nature she would have believed to be true. He concluded by stating that given the available information, Lisa Meal would pose a present unmanageable danger in the community. quote, she has shown to be operating very aggressively under either a psychotic state or, if not, then under a deliberate conscious hunt for a man, although the latter is not likely the case.

She has been apparently given a serious mental health diagnosis which she does not agree with and has not shown any indication of being cooperative with medical interventions. Before the murder, she showed an unbelled. state of mind where she had already become aggressive towards acquaintances. At this point, she is still presenting issues indicative of a mental health imbalance. By the time her sentencing hearing came around, Lisa had dismissed her counsel and was representing herself. She had been provided with a Gladu report, which revealed that she was of indigenous heritage. Gladu reports can tell information on the unique circumstances of indigenous people accused of an offense,

which may be taken into consideration and sentencing. But Lisa did not share the report with the court because she does not identify as Aboriginal or indigenous. She made no submissions at her sentencing hearing. The court heard victim impact statements provided by seven members of Kirk Morin's family, several of whom were in attendance at the hearing. The statements themselves weren't made public, but according to court documents,

the family members described their profound loss and grief. The court suggested that Lisa might wish to say something to the family in response. She declined. Dr. Lopez provided a summary and recommendations from his report. He said that despite not having a previous criminal record, Lisa presented as a young woman who was now showing concerning behaviours which quickly escalated into murder. Quote,

There is a high likelihood that she operates under a mental health disorder, which due to the lack of clearly exhibited and bizarre ideation seems to be more difficult to realize. However, her issues carry a strong theme of victim. and persecution with a likely ideation of payback. She indicated that she has no contact with her family and they apparently do not know that she is in jail. She does not know how to contact anyone. However, the accuracy of the information that she provided has also been called into question at this point.

Ms. Meal continues to show reluctance to cooperate with mental health care. Of note, she also seems to be operating in a manner that leads an observer to believe that she is not yet fully aware of the depth of her legal troubles. Dr Lopez concluded that based on the available information and without the necessary interventions, Lisa is deemed to be a danger in the community that cannot be disregarded. He went on to say that she needs a long-term period of inpatient. psychiatric supervision, but if given the choice, she will likely continue to refuse psychiatric support. He said that there was a need for protective separation from society based on her mental health. While representing herself, Lisa became disruptive during the sentencing hearing. Here's a reenactment of one of those instances. Ms. Meal was convicted by a jury

of the second degree murder of Mr. Kirk Moran, whom Miss Meal killed. He only told me his name was Curtis. Please be quiet while I'm reading, ma'am, whom Ms. Meal killed on September 6th, 2015. Such greater number of years. Not being more than 25 years as... And I also need everything else repeated because I didn't hear it again. I am sorry, you will have to be quiet, ma'am. I'm not a ma'am, but... If you do not let me read this, we're going to have to deal with it in another fashion without you here.

Okay, I just, I need for everything that happened earlier to happen all over again so that I can be present. I do not understand what you are saying. Well, when you're a child, you don't always absorb every single detail or opportunity that is granted to you for understanding purposes. You are saying you are a child? I'm saying that I have been a child and I am moving out of becoming a child. Ma'am, I asked you earlier to make any submissions that you wish to, and you said that it had all been said, and you did not wish to make any submissions. Do you wish to make some?

Yeah, but I'm not right always on my first time. Do you wish to make some submissions that you have not made yet? I have plenty of submissions I'd like to make, but it's going to take approximately the rest of my life. Okay, that does not make any sense. Is there something you want to say right now? I'm here to prolong lives. This entity here that I am is here to prolong lives. Prevent bullshit. Okay, I, this has been a sentencing hearing, and you have chosen to represent represent yourself. You know that it is about eligibility for parole. It wasn't chosen for me actually. It was designed by the creator.

Okay, alright, in any event, if you do not want to make submissions about the issue before the court right now, please just be silent while I read my decision. That's not possible. I speak everything that I believe in every way that I can. I speak... Okay, well it is important that the record does record what I am saying, and it will be confusing if you are speaking over me, so... It's not confusing. What's confusing is how people think they feel. Excuse me, just a minute. Lisa Meal continued to interrupt the judge until he had her removed from the court.

In making his sentencing decision, Justice Meeklam had to decide whether Lisa's mental health problems were a mitigating factor. He announced that he decided that they were not. quote, her failure to recognize the role that her mental health played in this offense, or even acknowledge that she is unwell, makes her a very dangerous individual. He then spoke about the fact that for a mental illness to be considered as a mitigating factor in sentencing, Lisa would have to show a causal link between her illness and her criminal conduct, demonstrating that the illness is an underlying reason. He added that even when a link could be established, if the offender's mental illness makes them a continuing danger,

then that illness doesn't make for a good reason to reduce the sentence. He then spoke to the evidence saying that his perspective was that Kirk Morin was the more vulnerable person of the two throughout their interaction. He said that the notion that she reasonably felt threatened or that her initial stabs, was to defend herself from the threat of force was quite untenable. Justice Meeklam then noted Lisa's stated rationale for her decision to murder Kirk included acting to protect other women after she came to the conclusion that he was probably the highway of tears killer. The point was made that the reason of protecting other women is not consistent with self-defense.

In referring directly to information provided in pre-sentencing reports, Justice Meeklam found that the excessive and shocking brutality of this murder was clearly an aggravating factor, which calls for a larger parole ineligibility period than the minimum. Quote, it was a prolonged attack following a distinct decision to kill Mr. Morin, where she chased him a long distance and resumed, striking and slashing him with even greater vigor as he lay dying in the ditch beside the Alaska

Highway. There was deliberation involved in the resumption of the attack and then checking his pulse to ensure that he was dead. As the crown submitted, Mr. Morin must have experienced stark horror in the last moments of his life. Justice Meeklam confirmed that given the evidence, Lisa Meal would pose a danger in the community. He spoke to the fact that even though she had expressed remorse in the pre-sentence report, she declined to say anything to the family members of Kirk Moran when given the opportunity. Quote, from her demeanor and somewhat disruptive utterances at this hearing, I gained the impression that feeling and expressing true remorse is still a long way off due to her men's.

state. He said that the Crown asked for an extension of the 10-year minimum parole ineligibility period, requesting the high end of 12 to 15 years. He added that that was entirely appropriate. Lisa Meal was sentenced to imprisonment for life without eligibility for parole until she has served at least 14 years of the sentence. She will be eligible for. She will be eligible for. for parole in 2029. She'll be 38 years old. Thanks for listening and thanks to Anna Priestland for writing this episode. Thanks also to the two voices that you heard, Lainey from the True Crime Fan Club podcast and Michael from Unresolved. Both are excellent podcasts that I've recommended before so I hope you check them out. As I said, I'll be back on January the 15th. But if you want more

Canadian True Crime, I have one bonus episode waiting on my Patreon, the murder of Rachel Pernoski, and another currently in post-production, the murder of Sina Parsi. It's just $2 a month and you'll also receive all my episodes early and without any of the ads, as well as a monthly debrief where I give you behind-the-scenes info and my thoughts on each case I cover. To find out more, visit patreon.com slash Canadian True Crime. You can also find me on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. Again, just search for Canadian True Crime. My podcast recommendation is another CBC investigative podcast, and this one is from Saskatchewan. It's called The Pit, and the host is also another Aussie living in Canada. For those that have already listened, there's new episodes out this month. Here's a promo.

In a gravel pit in rural Saskatchewan, 51-year-old Sherry Furtuk vanishes without a trace. There was no articles of clothing, there was no blood or anything. But then... I made it up. It was all BS. I never... I didn't kill her. Well, I would love to see him convicted of murder and in prison until he dies. What happened to Sherry Furtock?

If the police were coming back to find a full skeleton, that's not what they would be finding. The Pit, a CBC investigative podcast. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. This episode of Canadian True Crime was researched and co-written by Anna Priestland. An audio production was by Eric Crosby. We Talk of Dreams wrote the theme song, and the host of the Beyond Bazaar True Crime podcast voice the discloser. I'll be back on January the 15th with another Canadian true crime story. See you then.