Canadian True Crime - The Murder of Loretta Saunders - Part 2: Interview with Delilah

Episode Date: December 6, 2019

*Part 2 of the story, produced by Nighttime.The story of Loretta Saunders is expanded upon via an in depth conversation between Jordan of Nighttime and the person who vowed to carry on Loretta’s advocacy work… her sibling Delilah Saunders.  Credits:Musical Theme: Tremors by Vox Somnia https://voxsomniamusic.bandcamp.com/Contact:Website: https://www.nighttimepodcast.comTwitter: https://twitter.com/NightTimePodFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/NightTimePodInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/nighttimepodEmail: [e-mail] the show: https://www.patreon.com/nighttimepodcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I didn't see myself as a black hockey player, I saw myself as a hockey player. My name is Dean Barnes, I've collected hockey cards since I was 8 years old, and I recently completed a 100 plus card collection of all the black and biracial players who made it to the NHL. When you're on a hockey card, it's pretty cool. I'm going to talk to all the players in the collection. We are proudly working with eBay to amplify these important stories. So find my hockey hero wherever you get your podcasts.

You are tuned to the nighttime podcast, focused on the fringe of Canada. Welcome back to a two-part collaboration between nighttime and the Canadian True Crime podcast. In part one of this series, Christie Lee's narration brought us through some very dark places. We heard an abridged telling of Canada's disgraceful history with its treatment of Indigenous people, and how this treatment created a social environment in which the Indigenous became vulnerable, both in terms of their culture and their personal safety. From there, we learned about Loretta Saunders, an Inuk woman from Happy Valley Goose Bay,

whose personal experiences led to her relocating to Halifax and focusing her educational pursuits on the issue of Canada's missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls. From there, we heard the story of the senseless and brutal series of events that led to Loretta Saunders' name being added to the very list of cases she hoped her work would reduce. This horrible story is one that I've been watching unfold since February of 2014, when my local news sources began reporting on a missing woman. As the missing person's case became a murder case, and the murder led to two convictions, the totality of it all contained more cruelty, tragedy, and emotion than I, nor Christie

at Canadian True Crime could ever hope to describe. We, like most of you listening, were on the outside. With our phones and our laptops as a vantage point, we could only look on in disbelief as a near-endless series of news updates provided the public with a play-by-play account of the Saunders' family's encounter with such unimaginable darkness. To really understand a story such as this, we need to hear from someone with a much less comfortable view. In the case of Loretta Saunders' murder, the person I feel is best suited to contextualize

this tragedy is a young woman left behind to pick up the pieces and carry on Loretta's advocacy work. The woman I'm referring to is Loretta's best friend and someone she always sought to protect. I'm talking about her little sister, Delilah Saunders. Anyone who has followed this case is familiar with Delilah. As the search for her missing sister went from bad to worse, Delilah seemed to take on the role of spokesperson for the Saunders' family. Bravely and effectively, she roused public interest in this case.

But as we'll soon hear, Delilah's work hasn't stopped with the convictions for those responsible for her sister's murder. Delilah has carried on Loretta's important advocacy work and has vowed to make the best of this horrific tragedy. When Christy from Canadian True Crime and I discussed our tellings of this story, we both agreed we wouldn't consider doing anything without Delilah's involvement, and we were both very grateful that she was able to make time for us. So it was set.

Tonight in this episode of Nighttime, we'll be joined by Delilah Saunders for a conversation that will contextualize the tragedy at the center of the story, but also show the strength, courage, and hope that became wrapped up in it. Despite a prolonged search of this Halifax apartment building, police investigators have yet to answer the question, where is Loretta Saunders? She's an inook from an Inuit community in Labrador, whose life hasn't been easy. But she was on the right path, recovering from drug addiction. She's three months pregnant and attending university in Halifax.

Saunders' thesis topic is missing and murdered Aboriginal women. Now, she's missing. No sign of her since February 13th, when she went to pursue payment from a man and woman who'd been renting her apartment. Saunders' family is desperate. I'd like to make a national plea to see if anyone has seen her car or has any information. Her car has been discovered in Ontario, and the same couple she'd gone to visit have been charged with stealing it and with fraud.

With the likelihood of good news diminishing, her sister is drawing on Loretta's character to persevere. She is so strong, and that's what's keeping me going through this, knowing that she wouldn't want us, you know, wasting time crying and, you know, sitting around feeling bad. More family members are flying to Halifax next week to endure the painful mystery together. So, you know, in reading about your story and your sister's story, one thing that was clear is you have a very large family, so can you maybe just set it up a bit? Tell me a bit about your family, where you're from, just give me a bit of background.

I come from a huge family. I have five brothers and two sisters. There are eight of us all together, but we grew up in a pretty fundamentally Christian household, but we also grew up with a lot of foster siblings. My parents would take foster kids in, and my house was always so busy and so loud, and while the church hasn't left the best taste in my mouth, it did give us a lot of time for, like, quality family time. Where did you grow up?

We grew up in Happy Valley Goose Bay in Labrador, but my family, my mother's family, comes from Hopedale, and my dad's family comes from Davis Inlet, but we spent most of our summers in Hopedale, a small Inuit community north of Happy Valley, and yeah, our family is based out of Happy Valley. Both yourself and Loretta have a big connection with your Inuit heritage. That's something I'm ignorant about. What would be a traditional life and childhood for a member of the Inuit community? Family is a huge central part of our culture.

All of our aunties, uncles, cousins, you know, we're all very close. I also grew up drum-dancing and throat-singing from a very young age, and all of that on the land. And we would hop in a speedboat and go from island to island picking berries and gull eggs, and also catching salmon with our hands right out of brooks, and it was a really beautiful way to grow up. You know, we saw some abuse and experienced abuse and whatnot, but there was a lot of beauty in being able to spend so much time on the land and with, you know, with our family.

You know, as far as your relationship with your sister Loretta, can you talk a bit about kind of your relationship as kids, like how close were you, and you know, how did you interact with your, she's your older sister. She is my older sister. We're about four and a half years apart. She is and was my best friend growing up. She moved out at a very young age. She was living on the streets of Montreal at like 15, and addicted to drugs, being sexually

exploited, but she came back and she ended up getting her life together. She finished three years of high school in eight months, then she did like a transition year and then went to, came to Halifax for St. Mary's University. But when I turned 15, I was, you know, having trouble at home and moved out, but I was lucky to have Loretta to take me in and take care of me. So I've been living with her since I was like 15. She's my sister, my best friend, but she's also been a maternal figure as well. Especially if you were going through these challenges that she had already gone through.

Yeah, and that's, I think that's why, that's why we were so close, is that she didn't want me to follow the same path that she did. When I would tell her that she's my role model, she would get a little freaked out and say like, oh, you know, just kind of worried because, you know, she didn't have the easiest life. But she wanted something better for me, for herself. She wanted to break so many cycles that she took it upon herself to take me under her wing and protect me. The period of time when she was going through like kind of this, this dark time when she

was living on the streets and whatnot, and when she returned, you would have only, you would have been pretty young. Like, did you know what was going on? Yeah, I did. I remember she was, she slept for days and she kind of like took over my parents' room. She was just like sleeping for days and I looked in her pocket and I found a baggie of Coke wrapped up in electrical tape and I, I passed it, I gave it to my parents, so I ratted her out.

But, um, yeah, I knew what was going on and I saw her struggling a lot with her mental health, with addictions and it hurt me. Like she, she seemed really different, you know, like she was always there to be able to kind of help me through things, like even in school at a very young age, like with bullies and whatnot, and just being able to encourage me to persevere through those sorts of circumstances. But, um, yeah, I knew what was going on and, yeah, it was hard not to. Yeah, but I'm wondering if seeing her go through this and then kind of pull herself together, go off to school and hell of that, like that must have given you a lot of encouragement.

Oh my goodness. Yes. Um, to be able to see, see my sister persevere, and one thing that she always told me was she doesn't want her trauma to define her. She didn't like talking about that stuff, I was the kind of person who wanted to talk about it and like lay it out on the table, figure it out, but she, she didn't like talking about her trauma, but she also says that she didn't want it to define her. She used it as a fuel to be able to create change in her life.

And she has been the biggest influence in my life to be able to take trauma, like losing my sister and turn it into something positive or find something positive through that experience. Yeah. And I guess in her case, like she, when she came to school in Halifax, her focus was on raising awareness and understanding the crisis of the missing and murdered and indigenous women and girls. Like, do you think that was something that came out of kind of the darkness that she went through?

Yeah. Um, she saw herself in those stories. She knew that she could easily become a statistic like that. And she did everything to, to not become a statistic, you know, and she, she was terrified that, that that would be me as well, because I just months before she passed away, um, I was hitchhiking, taking buses and just traveling out to BC, a hotbed for missing and murdered indigenous women and girls on my own. And she actually texted me and was like, Delilah, what the fuck is wrong with you?

I still have the text and she's like, what the fuck is wrong with you? You know, this isn't just one girl. This is happening to like hundreds of women. That was the no number then. And, uh, yeah, she, she didn't just see herself. She saw it in me. She saw it in her friends, you know, she, yeah. So when she came to school to go to St. Mary's, how long after did you follow her to come

here? I came to Halifax about a month after she did. Um, I came out to go to a rehab facility, uh, Choices IWK, and I chose this, this rehab because it was close to my sister. It was the first time I had ever gone to a facility like this and, uh, I wanted the support around me, plus we had planned for me to live with her afterwards, which I did. Um, yeah, so it was only a month later. In what was, uh, when you did live with her, what was that like?

What was kind of your set up? Um, okay, uh, living with my sister, obviously we butt heads sometimes, um, but we also supported each other through everything. Um, when she was busy studying, um, I would cook her dinner and bring it into her and her room, and we're having a bad day, retail therapy, we'll go, you know, do something to help cheer each other up, um, our birthdays would roll around. We had this very, not strict tradition, but we had a tradition that we, we definitely enjoyed.

Like we would go buy brand new dresses for each other and we would have a huge dinner, uh, one year. I think it was my 19th birthday. She got like a makeup artist for us who sucked by the way, um, she made like a vegetarian spread for my friend who she didn't really like, but you know, she accommodated and she, she hated when I turned the heat up on blast, uh, she hated little things like that or I could be a little messy from time. So yeah, of course we butt heads from time to time, but when I came down to it, like

we always had each other's backs and we always wanted to see each other succeed and one thing we always said to each other was we're going to take over the world. We're going to do this, we're going to be able to overcome everything from our past that, you know, we're there, uh, designed to break us, but we had each other and we were able to rise above a lot and hold each other up. And you talked about going to BC. Was that after like you moved out from the apartment with Loretta to travel to BC? Like what, what was the plan for you at that point?

I moved out in November of 2013 and I had a job lined up in Tofino working at, uh, resort and just like cleaning cabins or whatever, but it was on a beach and if you months later I had planned on going to school to learn how to build guitars and other stringed instruments and, uh, yeah, that, that quickly changed. In which way? Like you did. So, um, uh, I was only there for about two months when my sister went missing. So I, I hopped on a plane to Halifax and my life has changed in so many different ways

since. When, um, when you left with, was she, she had a boyfriend at the time, Yeltsin, Yeltsin? Yeltsin? Yeltsin. She was, she was with him long before you went. Is that right? Yeah. And remember the night they met, actually we were at Reflections, we was dancing.

Rest in peace, Reflections. Yeah. Yeah. That was, that was our spot, that was their place to go dancing and, uh, we had a lot of fun. Um, yeah, she met Yeltsin and, uh, him and I, we didn't really get along, but you know, she really cared for him. So I, I kept the peace, so it's best I could.

It's a very warm up of you. Yeah. So you kept the peace, but their relationship definitely was going full speed because I understand right before, I think right before you left, you learned big news about, about that? Um, I actually learned the big news, uh, while I was in Tafino. I remember I was like walking, walking on a beach with this guy I was seeing and, uh, I got a text message.

It was like, D, it's a positive. And I knew what she meant because she had told me her period was late for a few days and, uh, turned out she was pregnant. So I was so excited and I called her and told her, like, say the word, I'm on a plane. I will like do anything and everything to help you through this pregnancy because I knew that's something that she worried about too, that she couldn't get pregnant. Uh, that was another thing that I told her I would do for her. I was like, I will be your surrogate if you need me to.

And like, yeah, that's the kind of, like we wanted each other to achieve our dream by any means necessary. So like, that's the kind of relationship we had, but yeah, uh, she was so excited. Um, we all were. When you were at West finding out that her and Yulchan were expecting, it was around this time I believe that she started subletting. Is that right? Do I got the timeline right?

Yeah. Yeah. It was definitely within that timeframe. Did you know she like, did you know anything about her subletting or anything about these people? I, I really didn't. I knew that she was like entertaining the idea of subletting or renting the room. Um, but I, I didn't know that she took them in until, um, until I spoke with Yulchan

when he had reached out about Loretta being missing. So I think the idea was like, she was going to sublet the, the apartment that she had. So she, she would be living with him without the plan. Um, that's, that's my understanding. Yeah. That she was subletting to them, but, uh, they would give the money to her and then she would give the money to the, the super. Yeah.

And she would be living with Yulchan. Yeah. At a separate place. In this apartment that she was subletting, was that the one you lived with her in? Yeah. Um, we lived there for almost three years. Yeah. And I believe the subletting arrangement, this had only lasted like a couple months before.

About a month. And you found out about it, the subletting and whatnot. As you said, when, when she went missing, it was learned that she went missing. I believe due to the weird, like the texts that you and Yulchan was in. Yeah. Can you talk about that? I got a text message on the morning of, uh, the 14th on Valentine's Day. And all it had said was, Hey, and I was like, Hey, happy Valentine's Day and expected to

hear all about her Valentine's Day plans because she, she loved things like that. She went big for those sorts of holidays and, um, that's, that's all I got. Hey. Just hey. And I hadn't heard anything else and I figured maybe she was busy or, you know, something was up, but, um, I just kind of went about my day and, uh, then maybe like a day or two later, uh, Yulchan had messaged me and was like, Hey Dee, something's like really wrong. I don't know what's going on.

I don't know where Loretta is, like, can you call me? And then I started getting calls from her thesis supervisor and from some of her other friends and then from my mom. So everybody was like just kind of scrambling to see if we had heard anything. Um, Yulchan did get a text message, um, saying, I'm so stressed out. I forget my mother's maiden name, but as I mentioned, like Loretta and I had conversations about changing our last names to that, to be able to give to our children to carry that name on.

That's not something that she would forget, um, no matter how stressed she is. She, she's very poised and graceful when dealing with stress. So just these little things were adding up to, to be way too suspicious. Um, and then Yulchan said that, uh, that her roommates had told him that she decided to drive back to Labrador and they were just kind of trying to lead us away from them. The roommates being like the people she was subletting. Yeah. Like in Victoria.

Yeah. Okay. So he had Yulchan must have reached out to them and that was when they said, you know, she went, she drove to Labrador, which would never happen. Yeah. No, she, she would, she was very consumed by the issue of missing and murdered indigenous women and girls. She would not do something like that.

She would not go somewhere, especially such a long drive without letting anyone know. Yeah. So, so between the texts, this story, like, is that kind of all the stuff what compelled you all to make an actual police report? Yeah. Um, things weren't adding up and, uh, we were trying to get bank activity. We were trying to get like cell phone activity and whatnot. Um, my, my brother, Edmond actually had called, called Bell Mobility and was like super pissed

off. Like my sister's missing. Like what's going on? Then they told him that her phone was used in Ontario. So it was, yeah, um, it was all just not making any sense. How long after you, um, talked to Yulchan and realized, you know, something was wrong, how long until you started coming home? What is it?

Um, I, I waited. The day that I found out that like she was definitely missing, um, I just didn't go back to work that day. I told my supervisor and stuff, like, I think my sister's missing and like there were no flights that evening, so I flew out the next morning. Okay. Um, and then things started trickling in, like her phone dinged off of a tower in London or Windsor or wherever, um, things were happening kind of in tandem, like my, my journey back

to the East coast and just like these little bits of news coming in, um, that were not really adding up to the outcome that we wanted. Now, given the messages and the strange story about where she went, the phone, you know, pinging in Ontario, when you got here to the East coast to get in on to, you know, to join the search for her, what was the feeling like? Did your, did your family have a theory as to what was happening or where you just hope, like what, what was going through your mind? Well, that's one thing about like a loved one going missing is your mind goes into so

many different, different places. Um, you kind of want to think that she just wants to get away from everybody for a while. Um, the logical part of my mind, you know, that after so many hours, it's not going to be a good outcome. Um, things like that, uh, a part of you knows, but another part of you comes up with so many different theories about what happened, what could have happened. Um, I like, as soon as I landed in Halifax, I immediately went to the police station first to speak to the police.

And then I went to the apartment that Loretta and I shared, um, that she ended up subletting. Um, I went there even though the police told me to stay away. I had to go and see with my own eyes that her car wasn't there, that she wasn't on her bed studying, like I had to go and see. When I got up to the 10th floor and down the hallway, there was a police officer sitting outside the door and, uh, I said, Hey, this is mine and my sister's apartment, like what's going on and stuff like that. And she ended up calling, uh, one of the detectives and was like, are you going to come speak to

the family? So even that, like, you, you know, you know on a certain level that something isn't right. Yeah. I think they already knew and they didn't tell us for like another couple of weeks or whatever. And were you at this point suspicious of the subletters or tenants or whatever you want to call them? Um, yeah, I got a number from Yulchin, um, but I was also suspicious of him.

You know, like I was suspicious of everybody. Um, and even at one point I was like, Holy shit, did I do something because your brain is just so, nothing makes sense and you search everywhere for answers. So as this chaos was all going on, the first kind of big lead was when her car was found. Do you remember this happening? Like what was, how did this come to you that, that her car was found? Um, well, the police initially told us not to really put anything out in the media, but my family, we were suspicious of the police even, you know, that's, that's something that

you see with missing a murdered indigenous women and girls is police not doing a thorough investigation or, you know, kind of dropping the ball in that respect. Um, so in the media, I had asked like if you see her car, like, can you, you know, call a tip line, whatever. Um, and I don't remember exactly how we found the new, how we got the news, but, um, yeah, it just wasn't looking good from that point. Yeah. And I believe when her car was found, it was very quickly after that, that the two tenants,

well, they, they had her car parked at, you know, where they were staying in Harrow, Ontario, and, um, yeah, I think they were found at the same time. It just wasn't released through the media that way. And so when, did you know that though? Did you know they were, they were with the car? Like when the vehicle was found, did you know that they were involved with the car? Um, I didn't, I didn't know it explicitly, but it made sense because they were nowhere to be found.

Um, we couldn't get ahold of them or anything. I had different phone numbers for them. And, uh, yeah, I didn't know it explicitly, but, uh, we kind of had a feeling. Yeah. No, at this point, like as this was all, all going on, it seemed like you, the Redis younger sister kind of took the role as pretty much the family spokesperson, like all the original news, because I was living in Halifax at the time. As I was watching this, it was always pretty much you up front talking on the

half of your family, like what was that? Like, like given the stress and just, I guess just the terror that you would have been going through and worry with for your sister, how did you rise to the occasion to, you know, get the messages you wanted out? Um, it was just a job that had to be done. And I felt like I could do it. Um, it wasn't easy, but I, you know, I, the feelings that I had, um, they were all over the place anyway, you know, but I, I knew that this was one way that

we could get the message out, we could find her sooner. Um, and I needed to do something. I needed to feel like we were moving forward. You know, I needed to feel like we were going to find her. Um, when you're not spinning your wheels crazy, thinking about what could have happened, what might have happened, um, and you're crying and freaking out, screaming, when you're not doing that, you need to do something positive. And that's something like I felt I could do, you know, and at a certain point,

my family was like, okay, you speak to them, you know? Wow. No, not long after the car was found, the police, and before she was found, the police had announced publicly that this was being investigated as a homicide. I believe that's right. Do you remember that happening? Do you remember hearing this? Um, well, see what happened was the way that I found out, um, I was driving

with my ex-boyfriend and, you know, my friends, uh, from a press conference. And we were planning some sort of like fundraiser to be able to make the search bigger. And we were driving right past St. Mary's University and going to turn on to Tower Road to go to the residence we were staying at. And I got a text message from CBC and it said, Hey, this is Basil from CBC, Toronto. I'm sorry. This has turned into a homicide investigation. What would you be able to speak with us this evening?

And I laughed at my phone because that's not the outcome we're getting. You know, I, I was so taken aback. I was like, this isn't real, you know, and, uh, I just kind of ignored my phone. And when we got around to the, to the residence, um, we were going to meet with Detective Andy Pattinson and Yulchin. And that's when I knew they didn't have to say anything. And Yulchin just kind of collapsed in my arms and no one had to say anything. I, I knew at that point and I turned into a beast.

Like I, I've never felt that way before in my life or since, well, maybe a bit during, you know, court proceedings, but, um, I don't know. It was, it was really intense. Like I, I was like growling. I was turning red. My, like, I, my temperature was rising and I was crying and vomiting. And just like it was, my body was rejecting that. And, uh, I've had, I've had a reporter ask me, like, after reading my blog,

like, how do you remember all of these things? And it's like, I have a body memory of like, of these emotions and this experience. Like my body remembers that. So be, to be able to like, kind of reflect on that, you know, it's like, I can almost feel that feeling again right now. It's like, it's like, I was vibrating. Like I was, and then we got up to the residence room and, uh, you know, like the detective and everybody had followed me up there and we got to ask

them some questions and stuff, like where she found, like, you know, was she actually found in the hockey bag? Cause that's what the media is saying. So like it was all out in the media and, you know, that's how I found out was through a reporter. Wow. So. And was, was it told to you like, cause she, did you find out it was being

investigated as a homicide as she was found? Or did they announce it as a homicide before they had found her? No, um, the way that the CBC knew was because they had, they had camera men out there filming her being dug out of the snow. Um, so immediately after that, I get a text message. Um, the police waited to tell the family before they spoke to the media, but you know, the camera men were there already to, so they also, they knew aside from the police, uh, when you were going into that room with the police

and Yulchin, I wonder if that was that to tell you what had happened. I wonder. Well, um, that was, that was the point of the meeting. I, I initially thought like, cause Andy Pattinson, the detective had called me and was like, Hey, like I got Yulchin here, like, can you come meet with us and whatever. And I just thought it was to ask questions or, you know, I, cause my mind wasn't ready to go there yet.

And then I got the text message and I'm still in disbelief, denial, you know, and when I got there, yeah, it was them to like, they were going to tell me that, you know, they had found her. And I understand in, in situations like this, it's usually not until kind of the trial in the court that you find out like exactly what happened. Was that true in your case? Like, was this until leading up to the trial, was there still a big question about what exactly happened?

Yeah. Um, it wasn't until the, uh, preliminary hearing that we found out. No, actually, they did tell us that she had died due to asphyxia. Um, but it wasn't until the preliminary hearing that we got actual details like the Saran wrap and, you know, things like that. Um, yeah, and we weren't even supposed to know, I guess, because of, um, the defense had actually called me, my mother, and my brother as witnesses. Um, which would have made it so you couldn't attend.

Yeah, we couldn't attend the preliminary hearing, but, you know, people talk. Yeah. People talk. So we found out some details. Um, during the trial is when we got all of the details and we got, you know, all of that information and things were coming out in the media as well. You know, like Blake and Victoria's videos and, uh, Blake had written a letter, not a letter.

Um, his cellmate actually convinced him that he could make some money by writing the story. And they found it hidden in his cell. Uh, it's very, very, very convenient and blessed this man, like blessed his cellmate. Like I've, I've talked to him and, you know, we've, we've become friends over the years now. Uh, Blake tried to say that it was meant for his lawyer, but it was actually addressed to his cellmate. Um, just so happens that a piece of a broom handle goes missing.

Uh, that can be used just like a shiv or whatever. Um, so the guards toss all the rooms and they find this little toilet paper roll that could be like, it's the size of the little broom handle thing that, that I'm missing. So they open this up and it's like titled M day and like says murder and everything in it. So they take it and that becomes his written confession. Yeah.

And it wasn't addressed to a lawyer or anything. It was addressed to his cellmate. So it was admissible. Yeah. And I think like they tried to say it was, um, like confidential because it would have been between him and his lawyer, but there was no evidence that that was, but there was no, there was, his lawyer's name wasn't on the, on the paper whatsoever.

And the guards had a reason to find it. So it's not like they were snooping in his cell. That's a real stroke of luck. Uh, I think it's, uh, a little more crafted than that. You know, talk a bit about, about the trial, like sitting, like having gone through all of this sitting in there with, with the accusers, with your family, like how I will never be able to understand how difficult it must have been, but just kind of talk about hearing all of this in that situation, in that scenario.

Um, at this point, like I, I was a mess. I didn't feel like I had much to live for. And through the grapevine, I heard that she's allergic to peanuts, like definitely allergic to peanuts. The Victoria. Yeah. Victoria. So I'm sitting in the gallery chewing peanuts, ready to spit them on her.

Like finding out how I can get peanut oil. Like I told these little things. So obviously I didn't do it, but like, um, those little things, they actually helped me through it. Uh, but also like I had a mantra. I was like, I'm civil, I'm sweet. I'm doing this for something bigger than myself. And then, uh, you know, like we, we did a lot of screaming at them.

We did a lot of like yelling and screaming at them. And a lot of that happened while they were being led out of the, uh, like patty wagon type deal. So we would get a lot of like anger out before the actual hearing and after. But, um, when we had to read our victim impact statements, um, I know it didn't make any sense to anyone else, but I was like, I'm not feeling very fucking civil. I'm not feeling very fucking sweet.

And I, I stormed off the witness stand and I just screamed at them. I was like, do you know what you fucking did? You stole my fucking sister. And I, I screamed at them. Like the rest of the room blacked out and like all I could see was them. And then I stormed out, but they, they let me back in to try and read it. And I did. And it was, you know, it was, I, I couldn't, I

couldn't come up with how they were making me feel. Cause like I was just, I, I, like, I think that me freaking out that way also demonstrates, like, I couldn't sit there and read out how they were making me feel, you know, I took that chance to like scream at them and like, let them know what they fucking did. Dump the emotion. Yeah, I dumped the emotion on them. But then when I read the victim impact statement, I, it was more so about

Loretta, I'm missing a murdered indigenous women and girls. I wanted that on the record, something that she was passionate about. And I wanted, I wanted people to hear that this isn't a one off. This is a systemic thing. And I wanted that on the record officially. It was kind of like almost dress rehearsal or something. Like it was just weird. It was weird to like have to go through these procedures and everything when

like they completely destroyed lives. Like they knew they were caught. They knew that they did it. Like the evidence was stacked against them. And if they would have pled not guilty or whatever, go through the trial, you know, that also looks bad for their future parole hearings and stuff. So for them to say, Oh, I'm taking, taking responsibility for this. And then I'll write this bullshit letter to the family.

And then that'll look good in 10, 25 years for parole or during an appeal, like Victoria. So no, like they still took my sister. They still killed her and deliberately so like they planned it. They have videos of them talking about it. And they messaged people on Facebook who reached out to me afterwards. Like they, they planned it so deliberately. And during the appeal and everything too, like Victoria appealed her guilty plea.

She said she has PTSD and she's so stressed out that she like felt forced to plead guilty and all this stuff and that she didn't have anything to do with it, blah, blah, blah. She was like smirking and like making an entire like, I don't know. Like I, I told her like, come out and I will fuck you up. Like, am I allowed to stare on this? Yeah. Okay.

That's a little late now. Yeah, I've been staring a lot, but, um, no, I, since then I've definitely made a lot of peace. Yeah. I've made a lot of peace with, um, with my grief and with the loss of my sister. I don't think I'll ever really make peace with them. Go ahead. What, what is it like the making peace?

What do you think is doing that for you? If not, you know, the closure of her being found or the, the convictions or sentencing and all that? Like what do you think it is that's helping you find peace in your life? I think that, uh, I've had a lot of time to meditate on the idea of misdirected anger of how unresolved trauma and issues can manifest into, into me causing pain for others, like hurt people, hurt people, you know, so I've, I've, I've had a lot of time to think about that.

Um, and I see how I still very clearly see how my trauma was manifesting into unhealthy relationships with myself and with others and with being able to move forward. Um, so I had, I had to deal with it. Um, all of my anger and rage was turning into, uh, excessive drinking and fighting with my family and my loved ones, pushing people away, hurting people. And then I realized like, this is really similar to like what Blake said. All of his childhood bullshit went away when he killed my sister.

So like, I've had a lot of time to like really intimately understand what this misdirected anger can do. And like, I, I didn't want mine to further damage me. So I've, I've had to struggle with it, get angry, find ways to like express that anger in a healthy way, but also be able to channel all of that energy and that, that intensity into something positive, you know, and I've, I've done a lot of work on myself and within the community and on my art and, you know, like just really taking that energy and that intensity and putting it into

things that will help create a better life for myself and for my family who don't deserve to have, you know, me be an asshole because, you know, because I'm not dealing with my own stuff. Um, that's, that's something that I've, that I've struggled with, sure. But, um, I've, I've been working really diligently on, and that's something that I learned from Loretta is to not let your trauma define you. One of the things you've done to channel your like the energy is carrying on Loretta's work for raising awareness of the crisis of missing

and murdered indigenous women and girls. Can you talk about how important that is in your life now, especially given your sister's connection to the issue? Well, like Loretta, who saw herself in those stories, I see myself in them now. Well, as you know, I'm pregnant and, um, if I am to have a daughter or a son because it happens to men and boys as well, um, I want to be able to try and create a life, a future, um, an environment where that's not going to be the easy reality of my child.

Um, I think everyone has a duty to contribute in whichever way they can. Like the 231 calls for justice released by the inquiry. There's something in there for everybody from social media influencers to, uh, community workers, to, uh, law enforcement professors, blah, blah, blah. You know, like there are so many different avenues for people to take in our everyday lives, uh, to be able to get rid of this, well, kind of eradicate this reality of missing and murdered indigenous women, girls, men, boys. And, uh, yeah, like it's, it's something I obviously had to take upon

myself because Loretta, her, her voice was silenced way too early. Although her voice, her personal voice was silenced, her story definitely highlighted the issue because of, for one, her work in it. And then, you know, what eventually would, would end her life. Like, do you think that given how the tragedy that happened to her and your family, is, is there any positive in the fact that it did raise some awareness and put the story out there and give, basically give her a larger platform to tell that story than maybe she had up until that point?

Like it's, like what I'm trying to get at, is there any positive that comes out of it in that regard? Oh, absolutely. And you have to find those positives. Otherwise, you know, um, it would just be a sense of tragedy, but like my family and I, we have had to find positives in it to be able to keep moving forward with not only the work, but with our lives. Um, one thing someone said to me was, Oh, unfortunately life goes on.

And I felt really like course and like abrasive to me, but it's true. But yeah, to be able to tell my sister's story, because like if she was killed at 15, she wouldn't have gotten the coverage. Like she did now after turning her life around and everything. But like even things like that, like highlighting the fact that that's the same person, she's still as valuable at 15 as at 26. You know, being able to even highlight things like that. Um, I, of course, I see positives in like change in policies, their

conversations being had, um, of course, but it sucks that it had to come to this though, you know, It's what it's well known that you've carried on your sister's work, highlighting these issues. What's like, what do you have on the horizon in terms of creative projects or just initiatives that you're working on that people would want to hear about? At the moment, since the inquiry wrapped up this past summer, uh, I really wanted to focus on projects that kind of brings life back into me because I

focused on so many stories of death and missing women and, you know, these really dark, heavy stories that take a toll on you after you carry them around for so long. And I've really made a point to attach myself to projects or start projects that, uh, kind of balance out all of these stories of death and pain and hurt with stories of life and beauty and perseverance. And, um, I've been so fortunate to work with my friend, Andrew knows where the, he's a composer at Western University.

Uh, I've been writing a libretto, uh, that touches on various, uh, experiences of mine and, um, like the dump site where the retta was found, but also writing about, like returning to the land and, um, just being able to kind of find my own sense of belonging. Um, another thing that I'm working on is a podcast to be able to speak to indigenous people who are working on really cool projects, um, who, uh, want to deal with some of the heavier issues, but with a sense of humor and to be able to, uh, move through it in a way that doesn't almost kill you, I guess.

Also, just really focusing on creating an environment for my child, uh, that's nurturing and healthy and to be able to get to a point where, yeah, I don't know. I'll end with this is your sister was expecting. Now you're expecting like, does this feel, does your pregnancy, does it feel more emotional for that due to that connection to your sister? Oh, of course, um, on her birthday, uh, this year, I was walking to her grave, um, and I couldn't stop crying and it wasn't just hormones. It was definitely a lot of hormones, but, um, also just really needing her at

this point in my life, um, I know she would have already been through a pregnancy and would be able to help me, um, get through mine, uh, and also just dealing with like loneliness and the fact that I'm doing this as a single mother. I, I know that I would never, I would never feel alone if she were here. Um, but I also feel really close to her. I've been thinking of ways of incorporating her, her name into my baby's name, um, and thinking of ways that I can honor her as a mother and, uh, kind of introduce my sister to my child in a way.

Loretta's story is another cruel reminder of a national crisis. I would suggest everyone listening and form yourself on the reality of Canada's missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls. For podcast listeners, I wholeheartedly recommend listening to past CBC journalist Connie Walker's series, missing and murdered, finding Cleo. Through the lens of one family's search for a missing member, Connie walks listeners through many injustices dealt to Canada's Indigenous. My honest opinion is that this series should be played in high school history

classes across Canada. I've added a link to the series in the episode notes. And now before we wrap things up, I want to end with some thanks. My most sincere and deepest thank you is to our guest, Delilah Saunders. Delilah, I hope I made this clear to you, but you're a personal hero of mine. The bravery and grace you've displayed and continue to display in the face of such personal tragedy is nothing short of awe inspiring. You're a glaring example of how a person can use horrible circumstances as a way

to make the world better than it is. Thank you, Delilah. And for anyone out there who wishes to support Delilah and her continued work, I've added links to her social media in the episode notes. As well, Delilah has recently launched a Patreon campaign in which supporters can help her fund her artwork, her writing, and her soon to launch podcast. If anyone would like to help her financially, that's a great place to start. Next, I'd like to thank my good friend, Christy, from the Canadian True Crime

podcast for again working with me on something I'm very proud to be a part of. Christy, I adore you and I have so much respect for you. I'd also like to shout out to the Canadian bands Vox Somnia and Paragon Cause who provide the music for nighttime. Check out these bands using the links in the episode notes. But of course, the biggest thanks of all is going to go out to everyone listening. Without you, I'd have no excuse to spend my time on this show. For anyone out there who wants more nighttime, please consider supporting my

Patreon campaign. For a dollar a month, you can access the ad free premium feed, which provides early releases of the episodes. And then for a couple bucks more, you can access the nightcap after show episodes in which I and a guest climb a bit further down the rabbit holes than what you'll hear on the main feed. You can join my Patreon and access the supporter content by visiting Patreon.com slash nighttime podcast.

And with that said, I'd like to thank the current patrons of the show and welcome the new members to the group. Joseph H. Allison and a person who has no name or identifiable information in their Patreon account, hopefully not glove guy. I appreciate your generous support of nighttime. For anyone else who'd like to support the show, but can help financially, you can do so by telling your friends about me and leaving a positive review on Apple podcasts or whichever equivalent you use.

If any of you listening want to stay up to date with my activities on and off the show, follow me on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. I use the handle at nighttime pod. And lastly, if you have any story ideas or feedback on the show, I'd love to hear from you at nighttime podcast at gmail.com. So until next time, take care of each other, hug your loved ones tight and contact Delilah to let her know the world needs people like her creating podcasts. The nighttime podcast is written, hosted and produced by Jordan Bonaparte.

Copyright, Jordan Bonaparte. One thing that I've said before is I feel like my family is lucky in terms of in terms of being able to actually have found her because there are families that have searched and are still searching for 20, 30 years, even more. And then sanity that comes with a loved one going missing is it's it's not something that I can really explain. Like, I don't think you can comprehend how how difficult it is to wrap your mind around, you know, like you search for answers everywhere.

I didn't see myself as a black hockey player. I saw myself as a hockey player. My name is Dean Barnes. I've collected hockey cards since I was eight years old. And I recently completed a 100 plus card collection of all the black and biracial players who made it to the NHL. When you're on a hockey card, it's it's pretty cool. I'm going to talk to all the players in the collection.

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I didn't see myself as a black hockey player. I saw myself as a hockey player. My name is Dean Barnes. I've collected hockey cards since I was eight years old. And I recently completed a 100 plus card collection of all the black and biracial players who made it to the NHL. When you're on a hockey card, it's pretty cool. I'm going to talk to all the players in the collection.

We are proudly working with eBay to amplify these important stories. So find my hockey hero wherever you get your podcasts.