Canadian True Crime - The Trial of Hedley’s Jacob Hoggard—Part 2

Episode Date: November 8, 2022

[ Part 2 of 5 ] CONTENT WARNING: Graphic details of violent sexual assault and allegations involving a minor. After the allegations of Jacob Hoggard’s inappropriate behaviour with fans surfaced on social media, a survivor finds the courage to come forward and detail her own violent experience with the Hedley frontman. And she isn’t alone for long.More information:"Emma's" story: 'I said stop': Ottawa woman accuses Hedley singer Jacob Hoggard of rape by Judy Trinh"Jessica's" story: Woman accuses Hedley singer Jacob Hoggard of ignoring her ground rules during sex by Judy TrinhResources for Sexual Violence and Abuse:REES CommunityEnding Violence CanadaCanadian True Crime donates monthly to help those facing injustice.This month we have donated to Good Night Out Vancouver & Ottawa Rape Crisis Centre.Release scheduleNovember 15, 22 and 29.Get early, ad-free access via CTC premium feeds, available on Amazon Music - included with Prime, Apple Podcasts, Patreon and Supercast. Credits:Research: Eileen MacFarlane of Crimelapse PodcastAdditional research, writing, sound design: Kristi LeeAudio editing and production: We Talk of DreamsProduction assistance: Jesse HawkeTheme songs by We Talk of DreamsDisclaimer voiced by the host of TrueFull list of resources, information sources, and credits:See the page for this episode at www.canadiantruecrime.ca/episodes Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Canadian True Crime is a completely independent production, funded mainly through advertising. You can listen to Canadian True Crime ad-free and early on Amazon Music included with Prime, Apple Podcasts, Patreon, and Supercast. The podcast often has disturbing content and coarse language. It's not for everyone. This is part two of a multi-part series,

an additional content warning. This series includes graphic details of violent sexual assault and allegations involving a minor that will be difficult to listen to. If you or someone you know is experiencing sexual violence or abuse, you're not alone and there is help available. Please see the show notes for more information. In this particular episode, there are also brief mentions of descriptive drawings that depict anti-Black racism and homophobia. Please take care when listening. Where we left off, it was early 2018 as Headley's Cageless tour was kicking off. Just a few days into the tour, teenage girls and women started posting on social media about negative

interactions they'd had with frontman Jacob Hogart. They alleged he'd groped fans, purchased alcoholic drinks for underage fans, and generally acted in a very inappropriate way. Jacob was known for cheeky antics and pushing the boundaries, but in hindsight, many fans had started to realise that their interactions with him were less flirty and more sleazy. But those many fans who came forward to report inappropriate interactions emboldened others, girls and women who had personal stories of their own, harrowing stories that went far beyond sleazy or inappropriate behaviour. One of them was the Ottawa woman we've referred to as Emma, at the time a 24-year-old college student volunteering at the city's 2016 We Day event. Emma was surprised to have matched with 33-year-old Jacob Hogard on Tinder. He was using his own photo but with a fake name, and even though she wasn't a fan of Headley's music or

Jacob Hogard, she was flattered by the match. Emma was too shy to meet Jacob during We Day, but over the next few weeks they messaged daily on Snapchat, culminating in Jacob offering to pay for Emma's return train ticket to meet up with him at his hotel in Toronto. Emma thought she was in for a flirty consensual hookup in a swanky Toronto hotel room with a bonafide rock star that she'd been getting to know for two weeks. But what she got instead was a violent sexual assault by a man who was very different from his public persona. Emma cried, protested, asked him to stop many times, but he didn't care. He called her a taxi and she left the hotel crying uncontrollably. And then, hours later, when she was finally on that train home to Ottawa,

she received a message from Jacob commenting on what a great time they had together. Emma was confused. She was in pain and bruised, but she convinced herself that it was her own fault because she went there to see him. She decided to move on with her life and pretend like nothing had happened, believing that if she reported what had happened, nothing would ever come of it. And also, she didn't want to be known as a person who claimed the lead singer of Headley raped her. No one wants that kind of attention.

of Headley raped her. No one wants that kind of attention. But 18 months later, in February of 2018, days after Headley started their six-week national tour to promote their new album, those allegations of sexual assault started to surface on Twitter. And Emma from Ottawa was watching and reading and drawing courage. She decided to share her story with CBC News journalist Judy Trinh, but under the protection of anonymity. It should be noted that under the Canadian Victims' Bill of Rights, victims of sexual assault have a right to anonymity in Canada's criminal justice system. Publication bans are designed to protect them from being re-victimized in a system that's still dominated by rape myths and stereotypes, a system where they're viewed with suspicion and distrust. Emma was already well aware of that

stigma, and she'd also seen how the other women and teenage girls had been treated by extreme members of the Headley Standom. Those who created alternate accounts to post their stories anonymously were accused of being fake people with fake profiles and completely made-up stories, and that was bad enough. But for those who posted under their normal profiles, the Standom would dig through their online histories looking for anything they could use to blame the victim. In this case, Judy Trinh knew and verified Emma's real identity. The article's headline read, I said stop, Ottawa woman accused headly singer Jacob Hogard of rape. And it started, quote,

she imagined a romantic tryst with a rock star in a fancy hotel. What she got instead was pain, shame and recurring nightmares. Emma recounted her story of matching up with Jacob Hogard on Tinder, to the Snapchat conversations during We Day and after, to the sexual assault in the Toronto hotel room and the message she received from Jacob later. the Toronto hotel room and the message she received from Jacob later. Obviously, there was no way for CBC News to independently verify what happened in the hotel room, but journalist Judy Trinh corroborated every other part of Emma's story. She spoke with four of Emma's friends, including the friend she called as she was waiting for her train home. As you'll recall, Emma had some resulting pain in her vagina and reluctantly saw a doctor six days later.

She produced the medical record from that doctor's visit, where she stated she was sexually assaulted and was examined and tested for sexually transmitted infections. The record states that she did not want to start legal proceedings. Emma spoke about how she felt about everything now that 18 months had passed, and she reported that her sleep was still interrupted by recurring nightmares and flashbacks of Jacob Hogarth's face.

Hearing any Headley song makes her nauseous and angry, quote, She also shared some entries from her journal at the time with CBC. After the incident, she wrote, quote, disgusting, degraded. I was forced to do things I never have, I never would. Because of who he is, I trusted him. I didn't think he would hurt me. Emma wrote about the physical pain she'd endured, how she couldn't sit down for two days afterwards, and how she felt the constant need to take a shower. She said she would never trust another man again. Quote, he knows I said no, I said stop. Judy Trinh reached out to Jacob Hogard's team for comment on these new, very serious allegations. His lawyer, Brian Schiller, sent back this brief statement.

Quote, Jacob met Emma on Tinder. They agreed to get together to have sex. She traveled from Ottawa to his hotel in Toronto to be with him for that purpose. They spent the afternoon together and had consensual sex. She went back to Ottawa that same day. Jacob is very sorry that Emma is upset, but that does not change the fact that they made a mutual plan to get together to have sex and they did just that. At no time did Jacob act badly or do anything without Emma's consent. Now Emma had already stated, quote, of course I expected sex. I wasn't going to Toronto to watch

TV with someone I barely knew. I'm not naive, but he completely crossed the line. knew. I'm not naive, but he completely crossed the line. In response to Jacob's lawyer's statement, she said, quote, even if I agreed to have sex before I got there, it doesn't mean when I'm there he can do whatever he wants to me. You're allowed to say no and change your mind. When that CBC News article was published online, the extreme members of the Headley Army were furious and needed an outlet for their misplaced hurt and anger. Of course, they couldn't unleash it on Emma because she was anonymous, so they came after the next best thing,

the investigative journalist who reported the story, Judy Trinh. Even though the article clearly stated that none of Emma's allegations had been tested in court, and it also outlined the many steps taken to corroborate her story, including speaking with a number of her friends, viewing her journal, the medical report, and more, Judy Trinh was accused of lying and not doing enough research. Hedley stands organised to file complaints with the CBC News Ombudsman, claiming that the article failed to meet journalistic standards. None of those claims warranted a response. Two days after that article was posted, there were separate statements published to the Twitter accounts of Hedley the band and Jacob Hogard. The message was that they had been forced to

take a long hard look in the mirror and they were going to go on hiatus, but after they had finished their Canadian tour. At that point, they were only halfway through, with three weeks still to go. Jacob's statement said, in part, quote, that objectified women. The way I've treated women was reckless and dismissive of their feelings. I understand the significant harm that is caused not only to the women I interacted with, but to all women who are degraded by this type of behavior. I have been careless and indifferent and I have no excuse. For this I am truly sorry. He said he'd been given a position of leadership and power and he mishandled it, something he said he'll regret for the rest of his life. The final paragraph of his statement started, It's time for me to change. I've decided to step away from my career indefinitely.

He said he'll honor the tall commitments and then he'll be making some serious changes in his life, quote, and continue to grow and learn from the amazing women in my life. In response to this tweet, one Twitter user commented, The guy knows how to write. It's completely in character for him to apologize, even if he did it. The extreme members of the Headley Standom showered Jacob with support and praise. They told him his statement showed a lot of courage. Quote, Another said, While Jacob's apology may have been readily accepted by his fans as genuine and sincere, journalist Sarah Boesveld argued that, quote,

Public apologies in the face of sexual misconduct allegations are tricky things, often taking some ownership but not too much, and always carefully constructed for legal protection. In a piece for Chatelaine, Sarah wrote that on one hand, Jacob Hogart acknowledged that he had treated women recklessly, but on the other hand, he insisted he'd never engaged in non-consensual sex. He spoke about the two things as though they were completely separate when they are in fact inextricably linked. Quote, part of the bigger problem of why, out in the world, these lines of consent can feel so blurry. In 2017, Canadian media personality Jordan Peterson had tweeted, quote, How precisely, exactly do you know when there is consent? Does it need to occur

at each step, as it now does in Canada? What precisely is a step? In another tweet, he wrote, It's possible that sex is so dangerous that it has to be encapsulated within a socially sanctioned construct. Those who share this frankly archaic opinion make cynical comments about needing written consent witnessed by a lawyer before having sex, or perhaps making their partner record a consent video in advance. They warn other men to avoid being in a closed room alone with a woman, that they need to be very careful in case they mistakenly do something that a woman can later claim is not consensual.

In 2018, self-help guru Tony Robbins told a crowd that Me Too amounted to women trying to gain significance by claiming victimhood. And to illustrate, he told his very large audience a story of a very powerful businessman who said he had two equal candidates who were women, but he couldn't hire the attractive one because it's just too big a risk. After public backlash, Tony Robbins issued a Facebook apology, but it should be noted that the following year, an investigation by BuzzFeed News resulted in an article titled, Nine Women Have Now Accused Self-Help guru Tony Robbins of sexual misconduct.

So what is consent really? And why do some men have such a problem understanding it? We've all heard no means no for the longest time. Survivors are asked, did you say no? Did you tell them to stop? Did you fight back? These are important indicators of consent being withdrawn, but the onus is always put on the victim. The thing is, the absence of hearing a no should never lead to an assumption that it's a yes. The fact that their partner might not have fought back does not mean there is consent to

continue. True consent is enthusiastic, clear, ongoing, and retractable at any time. No will always mean no, but only yes means yes. And the Canadian Criminal Code is very clear that there's no consent when someone is incapable of consenting to the activity, if they're under 16, or they're intoxicated on drugs and alcohol. They also can't consent if that consent is the result of someone abusing a position of trust, power, or authority. For example, a teacher, an employer, or an entitled rock star. Being coerced into having sex is not consent and it can't be given in advance. It's a continuous affirmation in the moment. Fortunately, it's very easy for anyone to identify enthusiastic consent. It's positive, yes-based and can be

expressed verbally and through positive body language like smiling, maintaining eye contact and nodding. And the responsibility for ensuring there is consent belongs solely to the person who is initiating or pursuing the sexual activity. Instead of looking for negative indicators that they need to stop, they should be looking for positive indicators that their partner wants them to continue. It's about ongoing communication and checking in to make sure you're still on the same page. After Jacob Hogard released his apology statement, journalist Judy Trinh reached back out to Emma from Ottawa for comment. She didn't think much of it. Quote, I think he's only sorry because he got caught. He degraded me. I think he needs to understand that

consent can be taken away at any point. And I think he needs a lesson on consent, actually. Members of the Headley Standom had tried to argue that Emma was a groupie, that she went to that hotel room for sex, and what did she expect would happen? That's one of those rape myths that led to sexual assault survivors being entitled to anonymity, because even if they had agreed to have sex at a location, the act of arriving at that location is not consent for sex, nor is it blanket consent for the other party to do whatever they wanted sexually. Consent can't be given in advance. The extreme Headley stans also tried to argue that Emma had a few opportunities to leave the hotel room, like when Jacob was having a shower

or ordering room service, and she didn't. They try to argue that because she didn't fight him off continuously, and at some points allowed him to have his way, that it's her fault. But it's not consent when a person allows a sexual assault to continue without protest or fight. person allows a sexual assault to continue without protest or fight. There are many reasons why they might not fight back, and just lying there and allowing it to happen is not consent. They might be scared for their life, or there might be a power imbalance at play. Various studies looking into how the brain responds to trauma have found that in the face of fear and threat, our bodies flood with adrenaline, activating our defense circuitry to respond to it. It happens automatically on a mainly subconscious level, and common survival responses to trauma

include the fight, flight, or freeze response. As you'll remember, Emma specifically mentioned that her body froze. After that initial response, studies have found that our brain, body, attention, thinking behavior, and memory process are all dramatically altered in particular ways, which can be wildly different from person to person. The brain might disassociate or split away from the body to protect them, resulting in memory loss or haze. The ability to reason, think clearly and make rational decisions becomes difficult, if not impossible. They may experience involuntary paralysis, or their heart rate and blood pressure might suddenly drop to the point that they might faint or pass out. And the problem is that most people aren't knowledgeable about the science around the brain and body's complex responses to trauma.

So sexual assault survivors often find themselves unable to explain why they responded the way they did, why they responded the way they did, deferring to those rape myths and stereotypes around how sexual assault survivors should act during and after the assault. This leads to self-doubt, self-gaslighting, a delay in realising that it was a sexual assault, not to mention a decision to report it. Enthusiastic consent is not silence or being passive or submissive.

The fact that Jacob Hogard treated women so recklessly that he didn't take the proper steps to check if there was consent and ignored very clear evidence that consent was either not present or had been removed, that's on him and him alone. In response to the backlash, Emma said that she was aware there were fans who were choosing to stand by Jacob Hogard and attend the Headley concerts they'd booked tickets for. She added, quote, I feel sorry for them because they thought that this man was someone who he's not. I think that people need to choose better Days after Emma came forward, the floodgates continued to open. Breakfast Radio DJ from Calgary shared a story on the air about her own experience with Jacob Hogard when she'd only just started working at the radio station. Katie Summers said she was 23 at the time and it was her first major market radio job after college, her dream job. She said

she was also a fan of Headley and was starstruck when Jacob Hogard was a guest of the station. During a photo op with other people in the room, she plucked up the courage to tell him that she'd been a fan for a long time. His response shocked her. She said he essentially replied that it was cool and added that maybe if she was lucky, he'll get her to come out into the back alley and she could give him oral sex. She said he followed the comment with a slap on her bum and left. Global News spoke with one of the other people in the room who said they didn't hear the comment but they did witness the bum slap. Katie Summers said at the time she'd only been working there for three months and she didn't say anything because she was scared she was going to lose her

job, so she just downplayed it's a story that needs to be told, no matter how minimal others might think it is. You can't let other people dictate your story, your truth. Hi everyone. Today we're talking passion projects that turn into careers, a topic that obviously resonates quite a bit with me. In collaboration with the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAST Creative, I want to introduce you to someone who took his passion for cannabis, turned it into a career, and is now an industry trailblazer. This is Nico Soziak. He's the chief financial officer of Canara Biotech, a prominent producer based in Montreal. Nico, I know that you've had a passion for cannabis for quite a few years,

but you seem a lot younger than what I was expecting. I have to know how and when you got into the cannabis business. Yeah, absolutely. I look younger, but I'm aging by the day. But no, I'm 35 years old. I got into cannabis about five years ago. Started with Canara. But you were a consumer before that. Yeah, I've been a consumer. I had friends in the legacy side of the business and watched what they did.

I tried the different strains and genetics, watched how they grew. Really found a passion for cannabis and the products. But my professional career is an accountant. So while I had a passion for cannabis, I was also a straight A student. Wow. And then Canada decided to legalize cannabis. And that was when I was like, OK, this is kind of my calling. I have to try to figure out how do I can get into the industry. And Canara had just became a public company. I joined them in April 2019 and built the finance department here at Canara and worked with the founder. And at one point I was given the keys to that. And now I'm here today.

Wow, that's such a cool story. So how do you feel about being called a trailblazer in the legal market now? It's an honor. I've looked up to many trailblazers in this industry today that come from the legacy side that went to legal. You know, I'm happy to be part of that. Actually, I wanted to ask you about the legacy market. How did you incorporate it into operations on the legal side?

I don't pretend that the cannabis market just got created in 2017, right? For me, legacy means that everyone that's been working, all the businesses that have been in the industry pre-legalization. I'm not going to reinvent the wheel in terms of thinking I know what consumers want. There's been an industry that's been built for many, many, many years. So it's all the ideas and creations that were pre-legalization, figuring out how do we evolve that into the legal side with all the regulatory frameworks. What would you say is the best part of working in the legal market? Knowing that your product is clean, knowing what you're consuming,

we're ensuring quality, we're ensuring the price. I think we're ahead of other industries. Okay, so final question. What gets you excited to go to work every day? This is my dream. This is my passion. I get excited. Work doesn't feel like work for me.

When you're creating things that you dream about, I give the idea to the team. The team is able to execute different innovations. That's what really gets me excited. Thanks for listening to this Trailblazers story brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAST Creative. If you like the trail Nico Soziak is blazing, you will love what's happening in legal cannabis. Visit ocs.ca slash trailblazers to learn more. About a week after Jacob's apology, he tweeted that he had been contacted by the CBC who informed him that there will be new allegations

made against him from another woman. The story in question was published three days later, with the headline, Woman Accused Headley Singer Jacob Hogard of Ignoring Her Ground Rules During Sex. We'll call this new complainant Jessica from Toronto. And just like Emma from Ottawa, she felt safe to come forward and speak anonymously with journalist Judy Trinh. Jessica said that she was disturbed to read Emma's account of what happened with Jacob Hogard after We Day. She said that the details were eerily similar to her own experience, which happened three years before that, in 2013.

As you'll remember, Emma was 24 years old, but Jessica was 40 years old when she had her encounter with Jacob Hogard, and 45 when she decided to come forward with her own story. She said it was in solidarity with Emma because, quote, When I saw her, that was it. I said, this girl can't do this on her own. According to Jessica, she met Jacob Hogard in 2013 during Canadian Music Week, an industry conference and music festival held each year in Toronto. Jessica and her husband were attending an exclusive, invite-only meet-and-greet that Jacob was also attending, and she ended up having a drink and a cigarette with him. A picture of the two of them together

was published as part of the article. It shows Jacob in a denim shirt with a baseball cap sitting low at the back of his head, so you can see the front of his hair. In one of his hands is a drink, and the other is around Jessica's shoulder. She's wearing a cream-colored fitted jacket with a black handbag strung over her shoulder. Her name and identity were of course verified by the CBC but publications of the photo have her face blurred out for privacy. Jessica said Jacob requested her business card and the next day he started to send her flirty text messages. Now like Emma, Jessica said she was not a fan of the band Headley but her own marriage was at a low point at the time and she was flattered with the attention from a younger man. Jessica was 40 and Jacob was 29, and at first she told him she was old enough to be his mother, adding that it was very kind of him to hit on her.

But before long, the text messages turned into plans for a Toronto hotel meetup. Jessica said she imagined they would chat, have a drink, and then have a, quote, fun, new-now tryst. She arrived in the lobby of the Pantages Hotel on March 22, 2013, and after texting Jacob to get the room number, she knocked on his door. When he opened it, she had second thoughts about their plans, but decided to quote, go with the flow. First, Jacob took her purse and cell phone and placed it on a countertop out of reach, a detail that Jessica said stood out to her as she read Emma's very similar story. Then Jacob told her she looked like a porn star and started groping

her and pulling her clothes off straight away, which wasn't how she envisioned their encounter. She said she tried to slow things down with some small talk about ground rules for sex, but each time she tried to state her rules, he told her to stop talking. Again, similar to his comment to Emma that she was being too talky-talky. Jessica told Judy Trinh that even though she only had three ground rules, she could barely get them out because Jacob Hogar just wanted to get to business. She said she explicitly stated that she didn't want rough sex and explained that she was recovering from a serious shoulder injury. She also explicitly stated there was to be no anal sex and that Jacob was to wear a condom. Those were her three ground rules. But Jessica soon realized that Jacob did not wear a condom and she said he soon started pressuring

her to have anal sex. Again, she reiterated her rules, telling him, quote, I don't even do that with my husband, so you can forget that right now. But evidently, Jacob didn't care what she wanted. Jessica said that she said no as he flipped her over onto her stomach, and she protested again as he allegedly started to rape her anally. Because of her shoulder injury, she said she wasn't able to get out of the position, so she endured it for about 10 seconds before telling him that it was hurting. He pulled out, but she said after this, he also allegedly tried to put his penis into her mouth. When Jacob went to take a shower, Jessica said she grabbed her clothes, purse and cell phone and exited the room. She had only been there for 20 minutes. The next day, she said she sent him a text message

stating that he anally penetrated her against her will and she now had to get tested for sexually transmitted diseases. She said she told him, quote, I don't know how you could possibly think that me telling you at the very beginning and then four times more that I don't want it meant that it was consensual. She warned him that one day his actions could land him in jail. She said she received a text back with a weak apology and, quote, I thought you wanted it. A few days after that, Jessica decided to tell her husband what had happened. He was contacted by CBC News to verify the story and he recounted the details his wife told him,

adding that he was proud of her for speaking out. Jessica also told a close childhood friend what happened and showed her the text messages that Jacob had sent. Jessica had since deleted those texts, but that friend confirmed the conversation and that she had seen the text messages. CBC News also saw the negative test results from Jessica's STD tests. Obviously, what happened between two people in a hotel room is difficult to independently verify, and for legal reasons, we have to note that she didn't file a police report, and her allegations have not been tested in court. Reflecting back, Jessica said that initially she wanted to give

Jacob Hogart the benefit of the doubt because of their age difference. She thought perhaps he was a bit inexperienced and didn't mean to do what he did. Quote, I was trying to make excuses over and over again in my head for my stupidity, that I wasn't strong enough, being his senior, to just stop everything and grab my stuff and go. She said she let herself down for not being a tougher person. The concept of gaslighting and abusive relationships is becoming more mainstream. and abusive relationships is becoming more mainstream. It's when an abuser or bully not only downplays or denies the abuse, but also makes the victim question their own sanity and judgment. They say, that never happened, or it didn't happen the way you remembered, or they might say, I'm sorry you think that I hurt you, but you're just too sensitive. Gaslighting tactics were employed in all the statements from Headley and Jacob Hogard,

including Jacob's lawyer's response to Emma from Ottawa's story. Jacob is very sorry that Emma is upset, but that does not change the fact that they made a mutual plan to get together to have sex and they did just that. At no time did Jacob act badly or do anything without Emma's consent. But the thing is, gaslighting is not limited to the abuser. Survivors also gaslight themselves. Instead of blaming the perpetrator of the sexual assault, society has conditioned us to question our own actions and behavior that we're told might have led to it. We expect to be asked these questions when we report a sexual assault,

and if by chance it does get to trial, we expect those questions to surface again by criminal defense lawyers doing anything they can to raise reasonable doubt by shifting the blame from the perpetrator to the survivor. Emma blamed herself because she was the one who accepted Jacob's offer to come to Toronto, and she was the one who went up to the hotel room. And Jessica felt stupid that she was old enough to know better, that she let herself down for not being strong or tough enough in the circumstances she found herself in. Jessica told journalist Judy Trin that she had seen the social media backlash against Emma, how members of the Headley army accused her of lying, that she put herself

in that position to be attacked by Jacob Hogard so she had no basis for complaint. to be attacked by Jacob Hogard so she had no basis for complaint. As well as solidarity with Emma, Jessica said she also wanted to help get the message out that consent is important and quote, it's brave to come forward no matter what age you are. CBC News had contacted Jacob Hogard for comment on the new allegations from Jessica from Toronto, and he was able to get his own brief statement out three days before the actual news story was published. Referring to Jessica, I will not talk about our specific sexual experience. What I will say, emphatically, is that I did not engage in any sexual activity without her consent.

The allegation is startling and categorically untrue it is not within my capacity as a person to force anyone beyond their boundaries it devastates me to know somebody feels differently after entirely consensual sex nothing will change the fact that i did not sexually assault her or anyone it was a statement filled with gaslighting and there were those who were not happy with this response. One former fan noted that if one party feels differently after so-called consensual sex, quote, then guess what, Jake? It's not consensual. Of course, the Headley stand-in showered Jacob with more praise and support, describing the anonymous allegations as cowardly and all lies. The profiles of the most vocal supporters were not teenagers. They were grown women, some of them old enough to have children of their own.

Some proudly posted pictures of their children holding up signs that read, We stand with Headley. One of the women said, quote, To be a man in the entertainment industry now is a terrifying thing. I hope it all works out for you. Another woman wrote, quote, for the Me Too movement, but it's allegations like this that discredit the true victims. The concept of a true or perfect victim is a caricature based on rape myths and stereotypes that have unfortunately been perpetuated in film and TV for decades. The perfect victim is usually

white. She's usually from a middle-class family, and she does everything right. She doesn't go out late at night. She doesn't wear revealing clothes. She doesn't do drugs or alcohol, and she certainly does not sleep around. She's a good girl, and the story usually goes that she's randomly kidnapped and assaulted by a total stranger. Of course, she reports it to the police right away without delay. That's who society has painted as the perfect victim, the true victim. But because of these rape myths and stereotypes, the gaslighting, and a belief that the police won't or can't do anything about it, the majority of sexual assault crimes are not reported to police at all. But of those that are reported, studies show that 8 out of 10 sexual assaults are

committed by someone known to the victim. Only 20% of sexual assaults that have been reported to police are committed by a total stranger. So for most sexual assault survivors, their chances of meeting the criteria to be deemed a perfect or true victim are slim to none. It's not hard to see why so many decide not to report it at all. As you'll recall, when Headley put out their initial Facebook statement, they called the allegations of sexual misconduct unsubstantiated and acknowledged there was a time when they engaged in a lifestyle that incorporated certain rock and roll clichés. The band members asserted, though,

that there was always a line that they would never cross. This statement had prompted Canadian music and entertainment publisher Exclaim.ca to do a little digging of their own. According to reporter Josiah Hughes, rumours of the band's alleged misdeeds go all the way back to their early days, and there was one particular rumor that stood out. It was from 2005, the year after Jacob Hogarth's stint on Canadian Idol, when the newly formed Headley released their self-titled debut album and toured with several lesser-known bands to promote it. One of the stops on that tour was the Embassy Hotel in the city of London, Ontario, a well-known all-ages concert venue at the time. After Headley played there on September 18, 2005, there had long been rumours that an underage concertgoer had been around for more than a decade,

but after the allegations started to surface on Twitter, Exclaim.ca decided to look into them. As it turned out, just four years after that tour, the embassy caught fire and burned to the ground, and the general manager at the time was quoted in the local press saying it was a sad end for a music spot that had been beloved by the community for more than 50 years. His name was Rob Bazinet, known to many at the time as Embassy Rob because he worked there for 10 years before the fire. The embassy was one of the stops on Headley's first tour after Canadian Idol and Rob had vivid memories of the day for several reasons. He said it started out well and the band members were

asking questions like what were the ages of the people attending the concert and what the laws were in Ontario? Rob said he heard comments to the effect of, quote, all ages shows, you guys must have problems with staff members sleeping with underage girls. Rob said he explained to the band that there could be people as young as 14 at the concert and that if they wanted to buy drinks for girls or flirt with them, there was a quick and easy way for them to see who was off-limits, because the venue's policy was to put black exes on the hands of minors. The band members were amenable to this system, but as the day continued, their behavior went downhill fast, according to Rob.

He described their treatment of women, fans, and even bar staff as horrendous. They were jerks to everybody all day. Later that night, after Headley's performance, Rob said he went to check on the band in the green room, which was actually an apartment above the venue that had at least one bedroom. He said when he got there, the bedroom door was shut and the members of the band stood in front of the door so he couldn't get in. He said he didn't remember which member of the band was in the room and which were barricading the door, but he assumed they just wanted privacy and went back to the bar. He said the band left the venue without him knowing.

Next, the police showed up, and Rob said they told him they'd found a young woman, unconscious with no shoes, by a bank just a block away from the embassy. Rob said the reason the police showed up at the embassy is that the girl had the X stamp on her hand, as well as the embassy stamp. He took the police to the green room apartment and there they found her distinctive shoes, little leopard print flats. They did ask him to keep the green room taped up for a week and while several officers came back to look around, it ultimately went nowhere. And Rob had more to say. During that week the room was taped off, there was much chatter by embassy staff about what had gone on there with Headley. But soon, the owner and promoter of the club received a letter on behalf of Headley and

their management company saying that if the staff didn't stop talking about them, they would sue. Rob told Exclaim.ca that he didn't have a copy of the letter, but he did read it, and from that point on, embassy staff were told there was no talking about Headley allowed. Four years after that, the embassy burnt down to be later replaced by condos. But nine years later, when the Jacob Hogard allegation surfaced in 2018, Rob decided to open up the conversation on his personal social media, and he alleged he'd been contacted by women from several cities with horror stories about Headley that they were too afraid to speak out about. Josiah Hughes, the author of the piece, wrote that he had also received similar contact from women who wanted to remain anonymous.

Exclaim.ca reached out to the London, Ontario police for comment about the alleged incident. They, quote, had no information to share. When the article was published, the Headley Army were outraged and tried to attack the credibility of Rob Bazanet, producing a screenshot that they claimed proved he wasn't who he said he was, and that he was lying about what happened. They also attacked exclaim.ca for printing the story without any other obvious attempts to verify it. At the end of that article is an editor's note that says, quote, a previous version of this article contained certain embassy staff members' names. As per their request, we have now removed their names from the article following

its initial publication. There will be an update on this later in the series. As all this was happening, Headley was continuing to perform across Canada on their Cageless tour. The tour did not sell out, and one venue actually cancelled the concert. Some Disillusioned fans got refunds on tickets, but the others were still fairly well attended. on tickets, but the others were still fairly well attended. Members of the Headley army showed up with printed signs and paper hearts with the hashtag I stand with Headley. They circulated petitions that demanded a boycott of all the radio stations that had dropped Headley's music. One superfan wrote to CBC News saying, quote, But the other side had mobilised as well, in support of the survivors who had come forward, and any others who hadn't yet. There were protests organised outside quite a few of the Headley concerts. Writing for Shadow Lane, journalist Courtney Shea spoke with one former fan who had tickets to attend a show but was horrified when the allegations came out.

She decided to protest outside instead with her own sign that read, Sexual assault isn't rock star behavior, it's sexual assault. She reported that the Headley army came for her, telling her, quote, you're just mad because they didn't want to sleep with you. Other protesters were told they were too ugly or too fat to get raped, or quote, you wish you were lucky enough to get raped by Jacob Hogard. Many Disillusioned fans who had Headley tattoos started to express a desire to have them removed or covered up, and prominent Canadian tattoo artist Lizzie Rennaud offered to do it for free. She said she did some of Jacob Hogard's tattoos in the band's early years and became friendly with him,

but she wanted to do something to help some of the women and girls struggling in the wake of the allegations. Now Lizzie never made any allegations of her own, she was only offering tattoo services. But extreme members of the Headley army came for her, accusing her of, quote, crying rape even though she wanted it. They called her nasty names like Ugly Cunt, Ho, and accused her of being a jealous liar who just wanted fame of her own. Quoting journalist Courtney Shea, Headley has spent the last 15 years building up one of the most devoted fanbases in modern music, and as allegations have surfaced, so too has a previously contained subculture of Headley mega-fans who make Bieber's Beliebers look like a band of baby kittens. They are hurt,

they are angry, and frankly, they can be pretty scary. Elsewhere in the piece piece she wrote, Perhaps defending Hogard is easier than contemplating the fact that he might have fooled them. One former fan who got her tattoo removed compared this group of superfans to the so-called Girls of Charles Manson, lashing out at whoever dared cross their idol in a misguided demonstration of loyalty. While some of the Manson girls committed the actual murders, it should be noted that they are considered by many to be victims as well. Victims of a charismatic, manipulative narcissist who was able to convince them to discard all critical thinking skills and believe whatever he said. By this point, it had been five weeks since the allegations started

to surface, and as yet there had been no comment from law enforcement. But by mid-March, as Headley was on the final stretch of the Cageless tour, Toronto Police announced that the sex crimes unit had opened an investigation into Jacob Hogard. They said that no charges had been laid and they wouldn't give any further details about what specifically prompted the investigation. After a four-month investigation, Toronto and Peel Police jointly announced that they had gathered enough evidence to charge Jacob Hogard with two counts of sexual assault causing bodily harm and one count of sexual interference.

The police reported that the 34-year-old had turned himself in with his lawyer, but they were also concerned that there may be more victims. The announcement stated that the charges related to two separate survivors, whose identities are protected under publication ban. Pundits were quick to point out that the sexual interference charge specifically relates to victims who were under the age of 16, according to the Canadian Criminal Code. So it appeared that one of the complainants was a minor, and CBC News confirmed with Emma from Ottawa that she was the other complainant. After coming forward to CBC News with her story

of what happened after We Day, she had decided to give a police statement. Emma told Judy Trinh that when an investigator told her that Jacob was in custody, she cried. Quote, I just feel like maybe some sort of justice is going to prevail, regardless of whether or not he's convicted. People actually believe. people actually believe. The police had released a mugshot of 34-year-old Jacob Hogard, showing him looking wide-eyed at the camera, eyebrows raised. Emma said in her opinion, he looks like the person she met that day, quote, creepy and scary. She said she hoped the charges would encourage other women to come forward.

That was July of 2018, and the only announcements related to Jacob Hogarth's upcoming trial for the rest of that year were to report scheduling delays. But towards the end of the year, there were two other notable developments. The first is about Chris Crippen, Headley's former drummer. As you'll remember, in between their sixth and seventh albums, the band had suddenly announced that their drummer was leaving to start a new chapter, citing a difference in artistic paths. That was March of 2017, almost five months after We Day in Ottawa that led to Emma's traumatic hotel room encounter with Jacob Hogard. Headley soon announced they

hired a new drummer, and within a few months the band had released their final album, Cageless, with an announcement that the reformed band would be touring in the new year. As the tour kicked off in February of 2018 and the allegations started on Twitter, Chris Crippen was all but silent except for one tweet with a simple gif of Kermit the Frog sipping on some tea. But later that year, he decided to break his silence, first by giving a statement to Peel Regional Police, and a week or two later, an exclusive interview to Judy Trinh of CBC News. The 44-year-old said that the sex crime investigators wanted to know if he knew the underage victim who had come forward.

He said he didn't, but he had information to share about the 11 years he spent as the drummer of Headley. He confirmed what many had suspected, that his departure from the band was not just because of artistic differences. He had actually been fired from the band after more than a year of tension. Chris said that in the band's early years, he shared hotel rooms with Jacob Hogard and reported that he always behaved inappropriately. But as the band's popularity grew, he became increasingly reckless when it came to pushing boundaries with his fans. While the band's success was fantastic, Chris reported also feeling miserable because that success meant having to spend more time with Jacob.

When the allegations first surfaced, Chris said he was flabbergasted by the band's initial statement, sheepishly blaming everything on rock and roll cliches. He said, quote, Living the rock star life means, to them I guess, something different. I understand it as drinking a lot, maybe partaking in drugs and partying, and having a lot of sex with numerous partners. It has nothing to do with violence or degradation, assault or otherwise. According to Chris, Jacob Hogard was overly touchy with fans at meet and greets, and would make lewd comments disguised as cheeky jokes. When asked for an example,

Chris said that when female fans approached, Jacob would often greet them by saying, Hey you fucking sluts, how you doing? And because his personal brand was said that when female fans approached, Jacob would often greet them by saying, Hey you fucking sluts, how you doing? And because his personal brand was cheeky with a hint of danger, he got away with it. Chris described Jacob's joking style as shock humor and handed CBC News some group emails from the years back when he was in the band, dating back to 2012. A chain from early 2016 that included band members, crew, producers and managers started with one band member asking what Juno categories the band had been nominated for. Jacob typed in AIDS, rape and hit reply all. typed in AIDS, rape, and hit reply all. His humour was not only inappropriate,

but often accompanied by strong overtones of misogyny, homophobia and racism, according to Chris Crippen. In another email example shown to CBC News, Jacobs sent a cartoon around for Valentine's Day that shows a black man with a noose around his neck. No further information was given about this. Yet another email has a picture to commemorate 9-11, which CBC News described as a photo illusion of an airplane crashing into two penises that represent the World Trade Center towers. The card reads, 9-11, never forget.

Except forget is spelled F-A-G-E-T. A play on words using offensive slang for a gay man. Chris Crippen reported that Jacob routinely called him that same word. He said Jacob would often do inappropriate stunts when posing for meet and greet photos with young fans. CBC News had been sent one photo by a fan that shows Jacob grabbing the crotch of one of the other band members. And while it wasn't mentioned in the interview, there's another meet andreet photo floating around on Reddit from the band's early years. It shows a man who looks like Chris Crippen with his arms around two people, a young female fan wearing a red t-shirt, and Jacob Hogart shirtless with the waistband of his jeans slung so low that pixelation is almost required. And sticking out of his waistband is the head of a teddy bear. The person who posted the photo identifies herself as the young female fan.

She says she was about 12 years old at the time, and the teddy was given to Jacob Hogard by the child in line in front of her. He promptly shoved it down his pants. According to Chris, when they were backstage or at a hotel or travelling, Jacob often whipped out his phone to show the band and crew members videos and photos he had of naked women he said he'd been with. CBC News reported that another anonymous fan had sent in a short video that quote, appears to have been filmed by Hogard in an airplane washroom. The clip begins by focusing on Hogard's face and then pans down to show him exposing himself and masturbating. It appears that Jacob sent this video to quite a few people,

including Emma from Ottawa. She confirmed to Judy Trinh that during the two weeks she messaged with Jacob before he paid for her return train trip to Toronto, he sent her that same video on Snapchat. Chris Crippen said that Jacob also sent the video to him just before he was outed from the band in March of 2017. Chris said that Jacob was trying to get a rise out of him since by that point their relationship had been strained for over a year. Chris told CBC News that he saw many red flags that would have been obvious to anyone who worked with Jacob, including other band members and management, and he expressed

concern that Jacob's behavior might upset their fan base and ultimately harm the band's bottom line. But he said that nobody wanted to do anything about it. If anyone on the management team had spoken to Jacob about his behavior, he was unaware of it. Chris said that Jacob was the one with all the power in the band. He was the Canadian Idol star, the one who fired all the original band members and hired the new ones. and according to Chris, Jacob bullied him into staying silent about his concerns. CBC News reached out to Watchdog Management, Headley's management company for 14 years. President Darren Gilmore had been managing Jacob since the early months after Canadian Idol, and identified himself as the one who

matched Jacob with the three musicians who would form the new Headley lineup. Watchdog management quickly dropped Headley just after the allegations started to surface. In a statement to CBC News, Gilmore confirmed that the band was challenging to work with. news, Gilmore confirmed that the band was challenging to work with. Quote, At the time, we chalked it up to immaturity, attention-seeking and shock value. I regret not having taken stronger action at the time. The statement went on to say that Watchdog management had learned from its experience with Headley and believes the culture of toxic masculinity in the music industry has to change. Quote,

Back to Chris Crippen's statement, he said that the tension with Jacob Hogard soon spilled over to the other two band members, guitarist Dave Rosen and bass player Tommy Mack. Chris said that his relationship with them started to deteriorate badly, and the situation came to a head in the spring of 2016, when the band was on tour to promote their sixth album, Hello. Chris said he requested hotel rooms in a different wing of the hotel, away from the rest of the band, and he was so stressed and anxious that he became sick. A search of social media from the time shows fans noticing that Chris was missing from concert dates and asking where he was. In reply, he assured them that he was focusing on getting healthy again and he'd be back soon. Behind the scenes, he said he realised he wanted out of the band, but his lawyer advised him that getting fired would result in a better settlement than if he just quit. The details of what happened haven't been publicly released, but 10 months after his

last performance with the band, Chris Crippen was fired. He said he's tried to keep his career going, but his association with Headley has made it difficult to work in the industry. In response to Chris Crippen's allegations, Headley released a statement through the band's lawyer. It read, quote, received false and or out of context allegations made by a disgruntled and bitter former member of our group whose acts grinding and bias against us should be obvious to any fair-minded observer this hatchet job coming from a person with little credibility and serious issues of his own seems intended not to inform but to shock and inflame public sentiment chris crippen's only response was this, quote, The extreme members of the Headley army were outraged yet again, attacking Chris online and filing more complaints with the CBC News ombudsman, claiming that the broadcaster was irresponsible by allowing

Headley's ex-drummer to recount stories of bad behavior when Jacob Hogart had already been charged. This time, the ombudsman would provide a detailed response, which ended with this statement, quote, My conclusion is this. It's entirely understandable that you dislike this story and hold the opinion that it shouldn't have been published. But that opinion does not mean you are correct in concluding that this was bad journalism. The story is not a violation of CBC policy. So, Chris Crippen's interview was the first important development that happened at the end of 2018, but there was one more to come, and the next announcement would be surprising to many. On January 2nd of 2019, the media started to report that on New Year's Eve, 34-year-old Jacob Hogard had married his girlfriend, 28-year-old actress, singer and dancer Rebecca Asselstine. It's assumed that he had been released on bail. Media outlets had been tipped off that one of the attendees from the wedding had posted photos to their public Instagram

account. The photos show a swanky looking vintage themed affair and one photo shows the newlyweds sitting at a small table with candles surrounded by their massive bridal party. A total of 23 people all looking away from the camera with serious looks on their faces giving off a protective you can't sit with us energy. Whether intended or not, there's a strong message coming through. Jacob Hogard is fighting back, and he's not just a sleazy rock star. He has the public support of his new wife and many friends. There was much public speculation about where this new wife came from. Some media outlets reported that the couple had been together for over three years,

and others described it as a long-time on-and-off relationship. It appears that a segment of the Headley Standom were aware of this relationship because they followed the band's various social media accounts, but it doesn't appear to have been public knowledge. There's no evidence that Rebecca Asselstine ever accompanied Jacob Hogard on the red carpet or to any events. And after the news came out that Jacob Hogard had a new wife, her name reportedly became IMDB's most searched profile in 2019. Rebecca Athelstein is a triple threat, a talented singer, dancer and actress, but she isn't as well known as her husband. It appears that she started a music project in 2014 under the name Bex, B-E-X-X. She's also a respected dance instructor

and according to her page on IMDb, she appeared in movies The Perfect Pickup and The Unseen, as well as the TV series Supergirl, among others. Rebecca started posting occasional pictures with Jacob Hogard to her social media sometime in 2014. She described him as the best human and the love of my life, although she never actually tagged him or even mentioned him by name. Two years later, she tweeted, Two years later, she tweeted, That was the month before November of 2016, when Headley was in Ottawa for We Day. So too was Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, who tweeted a photo of himself shaking hands with a grinning Jacob Hogard. That tweet was retweeted by Rebecca Asselstyn.

We know that the same day, Jacob Hogard matched with Emma on Tinder, and two weeks later he paid for her to catch a train to Toronto. The next month was December and Rebecca tweeted, this year has been too much. Two people replied asking if she was okay and she didn't respond. In early January of 2017, she tweeted, quote, I can walk away into this new year with the knowledge that I will and always have carried loyalty and love with me. Never let that light out. She also tweeted a meme that said, The pain that you've been feeling can't compare to the joy that is coming. With another in February that said, I will not be another flower picked for my beauty and left to die. I will be wild, difficult to find and impossible to forget.

Over the next few months, she posted a picture of an empty room with the caption, End of an era. And in the second half of 2017, her tweets started referring to our new home, and she posted pictures of the same dog that would be featured in her wedding pictures only 18 months later. Fast forward to July of 2019, and 35-year-old Jacob Hogard arrived at court in downtown Toronto for a preliminary hearing that would determine if there was enough evidence to go to trial. He was photographed walking in holding hands with Rebecca Asselstein, his wife of six months. This court date was the first time the couple were publicly

photographed together. The judge determined that there was enough evidence for Jacob Hogard to go to trial on all three charges, the two counts of sexual assault and the additional charge of sexual interference related to the underage girl. The trial was initially set to begin in January of 2021, but it was delayed several times because of the pandemic, and by the time it finally got underway in May of 2022, police had charged Jacob with a third count of sexual assault causing bodily harm, related to a third victim. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, we'd love for you to tell a friend or leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts. Canadian True Crime donates monthly to Canadian charitable organizations that help victims and survivors of injustice.

For this series, we've donated to two organizations. The first is Good Night Out, a BC-based non-profit dedicated to sexual violence prevention in entertainment industries. They even have a nightlife street team, the first of its kind in North America. Visit goodnightoutvancouver.com for more info. And the second is the Ottawa Rape Crisis Centre, which provides programs focused on supporting survivors, raising awareness, empowering the community and more. Visit orcc.net or see the show notes for more information. Thanks to Eileen McFarlane from Crime Lapse Podcast for research in this series. Audio editing and production was by We Talk of Dreams, who also composed the theme songs. Production assistance was by Jesse Hawke, with script consulting by Carol Weinberg.

The host of True voiced the disclaimer, and writing, narration, sound design, and additional research was by me. I'll be back soon with another Canadian True Crime episode. See you then. Thank you.