Candace - Behind The Scenes Of The Great Debate: TPUSA Is The Biggest Loser. | Ep 376

Episode Date: August 18, 2026

Recapping the great debate. The biggest losers, without question, are Turning Point USA. 00:00 - Start. 01:38 - Behind the scenes leading up to the debate. 17:24 - Recapping the debate. 58:27 - Internet reaction to the debate. 01:17:05 - Comments and final thoughts. PreBorn!​​ ​​ To donate, dial #250 and say they keyword “BABY" or by visiting https://preborn.com/candace Ethos​​ ​ Protect your family with life insurance from Ethos. Get up to $3 million in coverage in as little as 10 minutes at https://ethos.com/CANDACE. Application times may vary. Rates may vary. PureTalk​ ​​​ Make the switch to PureTalk for $15 a month for the first 3 months at http://www.PureTalk.com/Owens Tax Network USA Do not wait for another IRS letter or a frozen bank account. Call 866-686-1651 or visit http://tnusa.com/candace ​​​ ​​​​​​​​​​​​ American Financing​​​​​​​​​​​​ NMLS 182334, http://www.nmlsconsumeraccess.org. APR for rates in the 5s start at 6.327% for well qualified borrowers. Call 800-795-1210 for details about credit costs and terms. Visit http://www.AmericanFinancing.net/Owens. Average savings based on borrowers who save over $199.99. Candace Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@ClipsCandaceOwens Candace Official Website: https://candaceowens.com Candace Merch: https://shop.candaceowens.com Candace on Apple Podcasts: https://t.co/Pp5VZiLXbq Candace on Spotify: https://t.co/16pMuADXuT Candace on Rumble: https://rumble.com/c/RealCandaceO Candace en Español: https://www.youtube.com/@CandaceOwensEnEspanol Candace Owens em Português: https://www.youtube.com/@CandaceOwensemPortugues Candace Owens en Français: https://www.youtube.com/@CandaceOwensEnFrançais Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

All right, you guys, happy Monday. I am extra happy this Monday because of the great debate. My oh my. Honestly, you guys, if we're being honest, it was over the minute that Andrew Wilson began reading his quote-unquote opening statement from his phone. I was half expecting him to just be like, and this message was brought to you by Turning Point USA. Just terrible. Terrible. I mean, without question, the biggest loser was Erica Kirk, Andrew Colvette, Lake Neff, the Turning Point USA, Or organization, more broadly speaking, because we seem to be reaching a new depth of their PR disaster. Could it get any worse? I mean, guys, they brought that guy in to train Turning Point USA students how to debate. He's going to teach them the strategy of debate. They actually paid him to teach them. So they went from Charles James Kirk, Charlie, to a chain smoking debate bro with a very shaky boot.

Like I said, they are the biggest losers. I personally think the organization is over. There can't be much coming back from that, who they're now hitching their wagon to. Erica Kirk was CEO and chairwoman ruined this organization in under a year, which is incredible. And it's because the queen sent an absolute joker. Welcome back to Candace.

Let me just express to you all that I truly feel disrespected. Can I say that? I feel disrespected because there is no organization that knows better than Turning Point USA does that I was trained to debate by Charlie Kirk, across country, across too many college campuses. I mean, just hours and hours and hours while we were traveling, note cards, learning how to debate, what not to do. And so it's just like, how dare they, you know, how dare they send me Andrew Wilson? Really, this is the new person that's coaching.

the students. This is who you think is going to take me down, goes into TPSA headquarters in June, comes out, and suddenly he thinks that, I don't know, he's a billionaire, dropping my name. Oh, she's too afraid to bait me. Okay. Let me give you guys a little bit of a backstory here. You should just know what happened leading up to this because it just will give you a better sense of what the organization has become, what we all notice is nothing to do with who Charlie was. And I think, understanding the lead up to this moment, lead up to the great debate, yeah, I really do think that it will help furnish the answer of the strategy that Erica Kirk employs as the new CEO and

leader. Now, I am not in any way exaggerating when I say that I have never in my life amongst friend or foe organizations dealt with a more unprofessional team than Andrew's team in my entire career ever anywhere leading up to them arriving at my house. So foremost, just to back it up, you will recall that Andrew Wilson demanded that I publicly negotiate the terms of the agreement on X. He wanted to tweet back and forth. It was excruciating. He wanted to make sure that I couldn't change the terms. I was like, why don't we take this on to email? We could just go back and forth. He's like, no, this must be negotiated publicly, please. So we literally refused to email like a normal human being until we agreed to the debate

claim that until we agreed to the format, three and a half hours minimally until I accepted that. And that took about a day and a half of nonstop back forth, which to me is quite childish. And we agreed, of course, that he could also bring a video guy because he was paranoid to ensure that there were no surprises. Like we were going to do some sort of a gotcha here. Like, who is in his ear just telling him that any of this is necessary? I don't know, but I did find out. We also agreed, as you saw publicly, that he could bring.

his own fact checkers. Essentially, he's coming with a party of four. We agreed that he could pick the moderator, et cetera, et cetera. We basically folded on everything because I just said, I just, I'm down for this debate. And then once it was excruciatingly and publicly negotiated and we are finally able to move to discussions behind the scenes, we start an email chain, I am provided with no identity as to who I am communicating with. We're basically emailing the quote unquote crucible team. I'm like, who is this? Who am I speaking with? Why is there no name behind the emails? Even when we, like I said, we asked, who am I speaking to? They're just being shady for no reason. It's like a faceless email chain. We have all of our names on there, so they

know exactly who's calling the shots, who's being looped in. We've got nothing. So whoever this anonymous email person or people were, they then declare that they would like a contract and an escrow account for the funds, okay? Not totally off the mark, but it's going to be hard, not exactly easy to find a bank that approves an escrow account, open it, get lawyers involved by Friday, that's what I'm thinking. They then indicate that they're okay if it's my lawyer's account, okay, fine. I have my lawyer begin drafting a very simple contract, which basically spells out exactly what we've agreed to publicly.

And suddenly we receive an email from the crucible team. the crucible team, essentially saying, never mind, Joe Rogan has now made an offer to host this discussion down in Texas. So, and I'm quoting this, this changes everything. Let's just blow up the negotiations. Let's blow up everything that we made you painfully agree to publicly because Joe Rogan will reach more people than your platform. Now they're asking me to travel to Texas. They offer me a luxury car to accommodate my pregnancy. And I say no.

I say no unless Joe would like to come to Nashville because it does not change everything. It actually changes nothing. And I'm not going to deal. It's already been a painful process. I'm not taking myself through that again, plus pushing the date back and having to be in communication with this team for weeks on end because you're a fan of Joe Rogan. I like Joe Rogan too, but I only had two conditions here, right? Everything else we've conceded to. I said, I don't want to travel.

not because I can't travel pregnant. I do. And I do travel pregnant. I just don't want to travel to this ankle biter who's up there saying, I'll do it on your platform. Okay, put your money where your mouth is. The other condition I had was no smoking, no smoking, no traveling. Anyway, they finally let that go and I respectfully declined when Joe reached out, who's very nice about it, totally understanding. Andrew then calls PBD and asks him to moderate because Michael Knowles said that He wasn't going to moderate. I immediately said, give me your second, third, fourth option so we can start reaching out to people. Andrew reached out to PBD.

And around this time, the quote unquote crucible team begins renegotiating what we've already publicly agreed to, asserting that they want to have a guaranteed 90 minutes to basically sit me through a deposition where he can just go at me and ask me questions. and I have to answer his questions about things that I have said outside of our debate claims. Now, we've already addressed that publicly, and I said, no. I said, I'm happy to answer your questions once we have exhausted our debate claims, but we're not going to have some you sitting down and deposing me. I actually recommend it via email. Again, I said, if you want that to happen, you're going to have to pass the bar and join Brigitte McCrone's prosecution team against me.

If that's what you're aspiring to do, send me down for deposition. You have to become a lawyer and join her team. Okay. And I said no. And PBD, I'm going crazy here. I'm like, he is the one that agreed to all of this publicly, made me do this publicly and is now trying to change things. So at that point, since PBD accepted being the moderator, he suggests that everyone get on a FaceTime call to work through these details. So we have basically an emergency FaceTime call on Tuesday evening. And I explained a detail. Suddenly he's acting differently. I think just having the presence of me. now looping in PBD on these emails, he's like, oh, yeah, no, it's fine. I don't need to, you know, ask her questions or do anything like that or add that to the contract. I just want to make sure that there will be time for me to address, you know, generally speaking, some of her conspiracies. And I said over and over again, I don't mind answering your questions. We're going to be dialoguing. Like, we're not, you're not sitting me down and questioning me.

And I want to make sure we at first and foremost address the case. That's what people are here to listen to. And I explain in detail on this call, and PBD has two members from his team on the call as well, Tom as well as his executive assistant. I explain in detail thoroughly that my house is very small. I explain to him why we are not allowing them to film anywhere. But inside of this exact studio, my kids live here. They homeschool here.

And this is something that you just have to respect, but I understand you're paranoid. We have a very small, small, formerly HVAC closet control room, but we will create a spot to address your paranoia for your team. They will be able to listen. They'll be able to hear everything. And so that you know that there's no funny business going on and you're welcome to basically record within the studio so that in the event that we try to trick you or do something, you will have captured it.

And he's fine with that. He gets out, we got out the phone, everything is done. Contract gets officially signed on Thursday. Thursday, okay, what could possibly go wrong? You're thinking, right? Because tomorrow's Friday. Well, sometime on Thursday, my producer is like, it's kind of weird that we don't have a point of contact. We are still dealing with a faceless team. No one has reached out to ask for our address. We also need the names because we have security and we need to know who they're bringing. So the faceless people have to become real people. And we end up asking PBD's team to provide us a

number for Andrew Wilson. We get a number and it's Andrew's number and he says reach out to this number, which seemingly belongs to no one. They will not identify themselves. So my producer is now texting an anonymous somebody. We try to run the number to figure out who we're speaking to. It appears to be a burner phone. The person just, I guess they want to surprise us with who they're bringing to the house. I can't even imagine this. I can't even imagine this scenario where someone has expressed to you. My children live here. They sleep here. This is our personal home. Like, we are going to, you know, have a studio outside of this in the near future. But for now, this is what we have. Now, over the course of this conversation with this faceless individual,

the person immediately begins getting rude with my producer and insisting, again, this is on Thursday. This is the night before. If they're going to need a desk, they're going to need a place to set up Andrews live stream, excuse me. They're saying they're now going to need an HDMI cable that's going to run out of our studio into the control room so they can set up a computer into a camera and live stream. They need access to power, they say. They being the anonymous people, I don't know who we're speaking to. And I almost lost it. I just went like, this is absurd. They still will not answer who they are bringing. And I said, we have never agreed to allow them to set up a live stream in our home, to write a desk.

She might be, what are we even talking about? And the person replies that they thought it was implied because our contract says the debate will be live streamed. Yeah, the debate is going to be live streamed like my show is live streamed every day because you thought we were going to trick you and put it behind a paywall. Why would you think that implies that you can set up a mini studio in my home after I've gone through such pains to express to both you and PBD's team how small the space is and how we don't have any room? I kid you not, okay? So when did this anonymous team decide to email us rather than trying to, you know, force my producer to just accommodate them? When were they going to email us about this assumption? 9.15 p.m. the night before the debate, with a follow-up email sent at 11.15 p.m.

And still, at no point will they identify who the four people are, despite the fact that we asked multiple times in email, and via text, who are you bringing into my home where my children lie their head? So it's now debate day. We still get no answers, no identity of who they're bringing. They want to surprise us. That's very apparent. And I just want to say I cannot comprehend how degenerate and disrespectful you have to be to do that. I just, I would never do that to anybody no matter how I felt about them.

So we just made sure that they were not welcomed through the front door. We normally just welcome everybody to the front door and said they had to go through the back, through the basement door, because why would I allow anyone to be so unnecessarily disrespectful? And then we figure out why. And then it starts to make sense, because he shows up with Stephen Crowder's team. Stephen Crowder's producer, CEO, regular on-air talent feature who spends all day mean tweeting me. He's actually like the CEO of whatever it is, Stephen Crowder thinks he does anymore. If you don't know who Stephen Crowder is, he's basically a child actor who never stopped being a child actor, it's a 40-year-old man, and he just likes to prank people. And this is exactly his

brand of just doing something this disrespectful for no reason. And I mean, when I say disrespectful, and I'm not even like Gerald Morgan is who he brought with him, I didn't, he was not rude to me, but could you imagine, okay, that despite me detailing why we wanted no filming, outside of this studio and saying, you can film in the studio. Gerald decided to do a live call-in from my kids' playroom just outside the studio. It was one of the reasons we said, no smoking. We made it clear to them. My children's playroom, which is the garage area, is just outside, and you can't smoke cigarettes.

All of this was made clear. This was their big plan, is to get views for Stephen and to disrespect me. You can go back. And so I still am just amazed that this is something that, like grown men would be plotting and planning for clicks and views. It's, it's so disgusting. But at the very least, it allowed me to understand why there was so much paranoia, while there was all this weird communication, all this unnecessary scheming. Because that's his brand. That is literally his brand. He's just not an honest dealer. It's a part of that bizarre group of middle-aged

men who are fixated with me. I just never have been interested in Stephen Crowder. I just, genuinely, like, I don't follow his stuff. I've never been on his show. I just, it's, I, that brand of never growing up and thinking that it's funny to be to do like pranks and it's not it's grow up you know his brand sort of crashed and burned uh when he was caught on a doorbell cam a berating his eight month pregnant now ex-wife when she was pregnant with twins and he never really recovered from that and so i guess the way that he thought he would recover is by plotting against another very pregnant person to sort of like break into her house in a weird way and like so you could have inside scoop on a debate rather than just maturely emailing and saying, like, why would you sneak into someone's

house? It still boggles the mind. Why would you try to sneak into someone's house because you want clicks and views because you don't have the manhood or the decency to say, hey, look, you said I could bring four people and I'm going to bring someone that you don't like and someone who's been nasty to you online, but that's my prerogative. I would have said, yeah, you're right. It's your prerogative. Could you just make sure this person doesn't, you know, film here, whatever. They did not do that. And it was actually in complete violation to what we agreed to

because one thing the contract did stipulate was no filming outside of this studio. Anyway, I kept professional. We were kind to everyone because, if nothing else, it did give me the confidence to know that Andrew was surrounding himself and taking advice from very unsurious people who liked to play pranks, essentially.

And I think that we saw the fruits of that during the debate immediately, that that was their plan to sort of play tricks to win. And I do want to say, just to be super fair here, the team, particularly he had in the control room, Rob, he was very kind, very professional. Even Gerald, he was kind and professional to my face, but the, just what you're doing, the exercise of what you're doing here is just a level of disrespect that I don't think I've ever dealt with. And if it wasn't for me, knowingly moving out of this house in a couple of weeks or so,

I probably would not want these kinds of people to know where I live because you just don't have respect for children. Now, regarding the debate, I do want to say this. By the time Andrew Wilson whipped out his phone and read that opening statement, it was clear to me that he was going to lose. As soon as he said the much trafficked quotation of, you're going off vibes and dreams and no evidence, I knew that he was completely unfamiliar with my content.

Like he just decided to go to Turning Point and say, oh, do this and I'll be macho and had done no research. And I also had this micro win because earlier, you remember, I had said that one of the terms that I wanted that I ended up conceding was I wanted a turning point to claim their horse. I wanted them to say that this is our guy. And he said he didn't want that done. We all knew that he was being sent by Erica and company,

but he refused that term and said he had nothing to do with them. And then in the first three minutes of the debate, he makes it perfectly clear that Turning Point USA is backing him with this totally awkward, I have a never-before-seen message wherein he just kind of makes Erica Kirk look like a big, fat liar. Take a listen. I hold in my possession, never before seen messages from Charlie Kirk to his security team on September 9th, 2025.

I'm going to share the message with you today, which is the first time this information's ever been publicly revealed. On September 9th, Charlie's security team wrote to him, yes, law enforcement has been fully supportive and agreed to a security plan and posture. Marl's event will be covered by both my team and the campus PD. If additional support is required, patrol units will be available. I have 11 on site. Charlie responded with this, okay, great. Remind them that they are there

for one person's security only because I'm somewhat worried the left is trying to kill me. That was a message sent September 9th. We knew that there was always going to be a threat, but Charlie and I always, we promised each other we would never live in fear.

And he would say, if they're going to get me, they're going to get me. but he was not messaging people the day before saying, I'm going to be murdered, they're coming after me, someone's going to kill me. He didn't say that. And I have his cell phone. So for those of you who watch this show,

that was the original Turning Point USA Sin. That was the first episode that I did going after Erica and I explained to people that she was lying. I said she's lying. There's no way that I know that this text message exists and that this text message was sent from Dan Flood, and she doesn't. This is in December.

This is in December that she's joining Glenn Beck, mid-December, that she is joining Glenn Beck and asserting that she has his phone. And then Turning Point tried to claim, which we met days after, because that's when I went, this is weird. Days after that is when Erica then came to Nashville and we had this summit.

And what she told me, which is how Andrew was making a very, very bad mistake here, she said, well, it was on signal, and the team's messages auto delete on signal. And she didn't know. So I guess Dan Flood didn't tell her. I guess Andrew Colvett, who was giving messages that he thought was relevant to the police, didn't think to give them a message that said the left is going to kill me. But particularly when we sat down, she was like, have you seen the message? And I said, no. And she said, oh, it said the left. And it was on signal. And I had. And I, told you guys that was a double lie. She lied again. The message was actually sent an I message. Well, Andrew says he's going to be dropping this message because he actually didn't want to show the message for some reason. He wanted this big sort of weird opening where people were going to go, and everyone just thought it was really strange. Really strange for Turning Point USA to not have presented that message, which actually, if they really had a message that said this,

their entire narrative has been the left killed Charlie Kirk. Why wouldn't you share that? That seems weird. Why didn't you share that with authorities when you were sharing messages? And Andrew, we're supposed to believe you didn't tell her for four months, but you told me in September? And Erica went on Glenn Beck to debunk me and say, I was a liar. And now it's just looking real bad for Turning Point USA. So fingers crossed, guys, because I always have a surprise.

Fingers crossed that Andrew, who has promised that he's going to release this on his show, because he's got evidence, actually does release that message, which is supposed to be on signal, but I know for a fact is on I message. So, yeah. Anyway, moving on as soon as the actual debate begins, I sort of declined to do an opening statement

because it was just weird that he did that. It had nothing to do with the debate claims, of course. It was just taking cheap shots at Candace. The first thing he does is he concedes that there's reasonable doubt that Tyler Robinson did this. PPD asks us explicitly, what percentage do you put this at? And here is what Andrew Wilson says.

Just out of curiosity, are you between 0 to 100, what is the likely that you think Tyler Robinson shot Charlie Kirk and killed them? Based on the evidence right now, I don't know, I'd say 75, 85%. Okay, I win the debate. So I guess the evidence is not so overwhelming. We went from overwhelming to 75%. That's reasonable doubt. Let this man off.

What? What are we even talking about? Who has ever been like, yeah, 75% was overwhelming. Hey, how would you rank that restaurant? Like 75%. I was overwhelmed with how delicious the food was. And I put it at 75%. What are we talking about?

Why are we here? And I realized that he didn't really know why he was here. He didn't have any sort of a debate strategy other than to lie with confidence. It was just amazing to me. How many times this may, thought that he could just lie not only about things that were happening in the case, but also about what was happening currently in the room during the debate. Like, we're sitting here, and he just

was like, I'm a wizard. I'm a wizard. I have a magic wand, and I can just convince audiences that didn't or did just hear something that happened five seconds ago. It was bonkers. I mean, the amount of people that were like, this is a strong sign of somebody with narcissistic personality disorder to confidently lie and try to gaslight you. Take a listen to just two times he did this. You wrote, the car pulling in, that's a totally blurry image, Robinson getting out of it, you have no idea if that's Tyler Robinson, the fact that he has seen four other times on camera, the fact being just a standard white boy with brown hair was seen walking up staircase, the DNA on the roof, we should discuss that. And on the screwdriver that he left behind,

It's overwhelming, man. Yeah, but that's not an exhaustive list. Just so we're clear, you did tweet it. But it's not an exhaustive. Yeah, but just five seconds ago. You should concede. You said I only said this one thing and said that that was overwhelming, actually. That's not what I said.

It is. You could even pull your own clip. Can you fact check if that was said or not? I did not hear her say this. You listed on your own Twitter that what you found to be convincing was something that looked like his car pulled into the driveway, a blurry image. No, I didn't. The standard white guy coming up the steps that could literally be anyone. This never happened.

For you, though, to say that anybody's a girl boss, right? That's like the pot calling the kettle black. That came out of your mouth. No, that was you. You brought up girl boss. Girl boss came out of your mouth. It's a bizarre criticism. Like, nobody's in the bigger girl boss position than you.

I'm actually, no. You're in the biggest of the girl boss positions. Like, you don't have to do this. You just do do this. You could definitely not do it at all and be fine. he literally came out of his mouth. I never said, girl boss. I was just answering and asking him to explain away how he shifted his position.

Now he suddenly supports Erica being a CEO. And then he started bringing up a girl boss. And he did this so many times. It was stunning. And people were just going, maybe he has amnesia. Maybe it's not a strategy and he has amnesia. But to just assert something with such confidence and to keep lying over and over again was just shocking to me.

we were probably less than an hour into it when I realized, by the way, that he was not okay because I wanted to address that, this bizarre strategy of public gas lighting. And he, again, wrongly, but ever confidently, filled in the wrong blank when I said, are you? And this actually ended up being one of my favorite moments. Take a listen. You didn't mention that I mentioned the screwdriver, DNA, all these other things. You never mentioned any of that. So no, you're actually incorrect there.

But on top of that, moving over to the actual evidence itself. Are you? Yes, I'm okay. Anyway, back to the evidence itself. Actually, I'm glad you're asserting that you're okay. I wasn't worried about your health. I really don't think by that time he was okay. It was already apparent to me that he was kind of coming apart and he didn't really have an argument.

And it was very obvious that he did not watch the preliminary hearing or any hearing for that matter. This is why he could not comprehend the contradiction of him claiming and calling people conspiracy theorists. You're a conspiracy theorist, and it's because of the way that you're looking at evidence, you're making inferences off of that evidence. That's his whole thing. He couldn't comprehend the hypocrisy of that. When in fact he was doing the exact same thing, if all of his evidence was being derived, which he felt was overwhelmed was being derived from a hearing,

wherein the prosecution was doing just that, looking at evidence and interpreting it however they wanted, a blurry image of a white man with brown hair. I think that's Tyler Robinson. Okay. I think that's not Tyler Robinson. He calls one a fact and the other one a conspiracy theory. This was the whole point of a hearsay,

of the hearsay Utah 1102. And if he had watched how many times they discussed this 1102 rule, it was basically like, yeah, we allow this at this stage, it's probative, he would have understood why I was pointing out this hypocrisy, but he quite literally could not grasp that concept in a way that was frustrating for me and so much that I had to tell him, I can explain it to you, but I cannot understand it for you. We all have our professional limitations.

This is one of mine. I cannot. It's like being in a class and you just have that one student that's not grasping something that seems to the rest of us to be a really easy concept that he's going, I don't understand. Why do you keep saying it's here? What is 1102? What is this? What does it matter? because this grants us all the ability, whether inside or out of the courtroom, to look at evidence

and then to infer a pomat evidence. In fact, that's what people are doing in any court case, actually. Both sides are doing that. They're just, they're in dispute. One side is saying, I infer this. One side is saying, I infer the opposite. And here is the evidence. And the jury makes a decision. Anyway, it was very clear to me that because he was weak on the case and didn't know anything, he wanted out of debating the evidence altogether. He didn't want to talk about the degraded prince who says, so what, so what? What do you mean, so what? I'm trying to tell you why there is just as much evidence here, the evidence that you say is enough to say that he did it, to say that he was set up as a patsy.

I'm trying to prove my claim, but he said, nope, let's go to a new phase. and it was the next phase was very remnition to me of when you learn a new vocab word and you just want to use it. It was like a term he had just learned yesterday or something and that term was positive evidence. He just thought that if I keep saying it, people at home will think I'm really smart and intellectual. And frankly, it just came across as bizarre. This is just a little bit of him saying positive evidence. Let's talk about the Foreign Legion. Sure.

Was the Foreign Legion, do you believe, trying to kill you? Yes, that's why I reported it to the correct officials in government. That's what I was told, and I handed over that information to Tulsi Gabbard's office. What's your best piece of evidence for that? Well, it was told. Positive evidence. This would be at a professional limitation for me to then go and probe that information that I handed over. I can't do that.

But you don't have any positive evidence of that. I don't you can you just stop it's actually just like annoying to hear you keep saying positive evidence do you have any positive evidence whatsoever that israel killed charlie curk that he stopped and ate at chick-fil-a which if you are into LGBTQ issues wouldn't be your lunch before you go kill charlie kirk for LGBT issues uh because you know yeah but do you have positive evidence and we cannot say for certainty that israel called the shots and this is how it happened but it is definitively i think a thread that a lot of us would like to say there's no positive evidence don't you think that like tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of people would want to know what Candice Owens' positive evidence for why it is that Israel and France were involved in the most traumatic public assassination of Gen Z's lifetime is? She had no positive evidence Israel's involved in anything. No positive evidence that France is involved in anything. No positive evidence TPSA is involved in anything. No positive evidence that Erica Kirk is involved in anything.

genuinely like it was maddening. I just like, just stop saying that term. You do not sound smart. Just you don't need positive evidence for your opinions. You just don't. You're like, hey, I think chicken sandwiches are better than cheeseburgers. But what's your positive evidence? But I just, I just think that.

Well, what's your, you have to have positive evidence. How would I have to have positive evidence for me receiving a threat and me taking it to the authorities? Could you imagine if the world works like that? Like you receive a threat. And someone's like, hey, you should know it. This person is plotting to kill you. And you go to the police station and you're like, here, here's the person who told me this. He's going to kill me.

And the police are like, well, what's your positive evidence? My positive evidence is I'm reporting the threat officer. I don't know how I want you to do your job now and go figure out if this is viable. They're telling me this. Well, what's your positive evidence? My positive evidence is me coming to you with the evidence that I have and expecting you to investigate it because that's your duty. I mean, that limitation, it was really funny.

I saw a meme. I think we're going to actually show it later of people just being like, does you think that people, the, if you think the FBI is involved and you think that they plan this assassination, that the government's going to help you find the positive evidence for this stuff? Like, well, JFK, I guess it was all above board because you have to have positive evidence and only the CIA can give you that positive evidence and they've blacked out the documents.

So you just can't, you can't speculate about it. I mean, it's just bonkers. Yeah, I'm allowed to think what I think about Erica Kirk. I think she's suspicious. And then I remind him, I flip the script and I say, well, what's your positive evidence for you having asserted as he did before he went to Turning Point USA headquarters? In May, he tweeted that he thinks that Erica Kirk is too retarded to kill her husband. And so I'm like, well, what's your positive evidence for that? Are you allowed to just have opinions?

And then he's like, oh, I'm allowed to have opinions. And he says he thinks that all women are retards. And sure, if you're sitting across one way that you're paying $100,000 an hour to speak to, I don't think anyone's walking away thinking that women are dumb in this situation. That's my opinion. I have no positive evidence. But I think most people walked away and thought you were the idiot. Anyway, next, he did what he was obviously censored to.

And you can just see his whole posture is changing. He's not feeling confident. He realizes he just said the words positive evidence too many times. Nobody cares. No one thinks you're brilliant. And it's quite annoying. And then it moves to this phase where it's very obviously that he is trying to entrap me in a lawsuit by getting me to complete sentences in a way that would fall into legal defamation, right? He's asking me and he's surprising me. And this is very Stephen Crowder-coded. Like to have clips, just to you guys in the background, we told them, if you want to send us clips ahead of time. And as you saw, we had no clips planned.

We just said, we just want fact checkers in there because we may, we may arrive at certain points where we dispute what we're saying. And rather than going back and forth with like, yes, they did say this or yes, she did, or Kathy Nesser did, we can just ask them to do a quick fact check. And because it's a lot of information going on in this case, and sometimes you just genuinely forget things, as I did, genuinely. I didn't accuse him of lying. I said, I don't remember the text about the surveillance thing.

Can we get a fact check on that? And we did. That was the purpose of having fact checkers. Never did I imagine, of course, because he didn't share who his team was, or I maybe would have considered it that he was what he really spent his time doing while I was, I was prepping for the debate. He was prepping to try to do some gotcha clips and to come in as Erica Kirk's lawyer. I'm not with Turning Point USA, but if I got to get you on record with defaming Turning Point USA. And he did this in a way that could not have been more obvious of trying to

sort of trick me into a lawsuit. Take a listen. Do you have any evidence that Erica Kirk or TPA USA participated in the murder of Charlie Kirk? I've never said they participated. in the murder of Charlie Kirk. So how could I say that I have evidence they participated in the murder of Charlie Kirk? Okay. So then you don't believe that they did? I never have said that statement.

So I'm not going to get you to ask me personal questions about things that I've never said on record. Okay. That officer, the first officer that was up on the roof, do you remember his name? Officer Bagley. Yeah. What was his first name?

Christopher. Christopher. When Christopher got up on the roof, you talk a lot about how his camera died. Well, he talked a lot about that during the preliminary hearing. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think that he planted that screwdriver up there?

No. No. Who do you think planted it? I, if we're just going on my opinion, am I allowed to have an opinion? Of course. At this stage, I would say that I don't buy his assertion on the stand that he didn't check to see if anybody went on to the rooftop before he got up there. I do think that it's possible.

It's at least plausible that the screwdriver was planted. I don't believe him. What I can say strongly is that his cam died at just the right time. His body cam died at just the right time. I think that, as you were just grilling me about whether or not I had the merchant receipt for a debit card, that kind of makes difficult that we just have to sort of trust that a screwdriver was found

and we don't have any should-be evidence of a police body cam. That right there is why it is impossible for me to think that Erica Kirk is not complicit somehow. Because what? Those two thoughts actually don't even follow. How would it be the case that even if Erica Kirk did believe that Tyler Robinson was 100% responsible for the death of Charlie Kirk? Let's say she believed it with every fiber of her being believed all the evidence because

she did. She just actually did. Would it then follow that somehow she's complicit in his death? I didn't say implicit in death. You added those two words. Okay. It's what's she complicit in. Look at his face.

You could just see it. You could just see the dishonesty there, right? So what's she complicit? It's like that sentence was so planned. That was so planned. Complicit in his death. That's not what we were discussing. We were talking about the fact,

Erica, I forgive him, implies that Tyler Robinson is guilty. Tyler Robinson is up for the death sentence. And when you are someone who is going around signaling to the public that this person did it, And we assume that you have more evidence, you've seen something, which was the broad assumption, as I explained. And it comes to find out that you had nothing different than the public had, people are going to go, this feels wrong. This feels like wrongdoing. Like you're potentially getting a jury, what could be a jury to believe that this is the person who committed murder.

And the consequence he will face is death. So I could just see that move there. that was so daily wire-coded, I would say. They love lawsuits. They love legal entrapments. That's what that felt like to me. And I could sense it from a mile away. And then I could sense that he was growing frustrated that I would not take the bait. I'm smarter than that. And I then called him out for having played three Erica clips like in a row. You're sitting here saying you're not here on behalf of Turning Point USA, but you start with an opening text that only Turning Point USA could have given you that they have not given to the public. And now you're playing three clips in defense of her. Yeah, that then led to because he started getting agitated that I didn't take the bait. So he's like failed on one. He's failed on two. That then led to the internet's most awkward silence where he just says that I'm not allowed to speak. And by the way, because he lies with confidence, people who were watching this thought

that there must have been something contractually that prevented me from speaking or allowed him to pepper questions at me. Both are false. That's what makes us especially funny. There is absolutely no contract clause that I allowed him to sit me for a deposition. because I refused it immediately. I was like, that just sounds crazy. And there was no contract clause that suggested that I couldn't ask him questions at any point in our discussion, not even kind of, sort of. He was just genuinely coming apart and growing really antsy. And he lies with so much

confidence that the internet just assumes, like, no, there must be something. No, I, I, there was nothing. Here's that painful, painful internet silence. Yeah, I mean, can I ask a question? I know it's been, or like, can I ask a question? Are we just in me? Not really. I'm just going to, we're going to hold to the actual contract itself. The contract does not say that you are allowed to just question me without me being able to respond to you. I've never said you can't respond.

You've been able to respond to every question I've asked you. And by the way, the other thing is, is like, let's have it your way. I wanted to look like we've done everything Andrew wanted to so that people can fairly assess the situation. So you have it your way. I will not ask a question. Totally fair with me. So are you good at what are asking a question or no? He said no. Waiting for the clip. Okay. So you want to wait for the clip first. Okay. You guys. You guys. You guys have it in the back. Okay. You need the jeopardy. Your team told me they had it. So that's what I heard. Okay. Come all guys. It was so painful. So what I think happened was because I called him out.

I said like you have four Erica Kirk's and he was like, I wasn't four in PBD. He's like, it was three, I think what happened was they had another Erica Kirk in Q, and then they just abandoned it. They just were like, we can't run this. And so then they ran this totally irrelevant, what was supposed to be a Lance bomb, but I naturally corrected myself very early on in our discussion. And I didn't realize that he was plotting this as some like big explosion. Like, kid has got it wrong. They never officially said that Lance's DNA was on the rifle. And so they just kind of played that. And it was weird. And I allowed it. I totally allowed the silence because A, never get in the way of your opponent when they're making a mistake.

It was such a completely nutty thing to say and to do. No, I'm just going to wait for the clip. You can't say anything. And it was a lie. And I thought, let him do this because it's just going to demonstrate his emotional instability that he is trying to assert control because he knows that he's lost it. Also, I was not going to argue with him about a non-existent contract clause and waste energy. I mean, just debate about the contract seemed ridiculous.

And lastly, if you consider it, I made $418.63 during that 16-second silence. What is there to complain about? You want me to be quiet? What do you? Okay. Okay. I got you. I'll be silent. It's a lot of money to make, to be quiet. Then came the most viral moment after he, um, permitted me to speak again after the clip was a nothing burger. And it happened accidentally. Okay. So I felt bad that viewers had. to listen through him simping for Erica for so long. We had agreed to discuss this case. I, as you know, had said to him, we should discuss the screwdriver. We should discuss the towel. And I tried to then change the topic back to the case. And I made the wrong assumption that Andrew Wilson had read the last filing, the filing for dismissal, which dropped two days

before our debate. And my positive evidence for that assumption was that Andrew Wilson himself had tweeted about the filing, as though it was helpful to his case. He tweeted. He tweeted about the filing, and they were all lying about what the filing was. And here he retweeted somebody else who said, skimmed it. The Tyler Robinson defense is on absolute life support. And then he wrote back picked a hell of a week. So I was like, obviously, he must have read this filing. And I read through the filing and I'll just show you. As I do with everything, for those you guys have been following me since the Blake, they marked it up, took notes and thoughts there were some really compelling arguments here. So I, like, came prepared that we were going to discuss

the most recent filing as one of his wrong talking points that the Tyler Robinson admitted to the text messages being real or one thing or another. So, I also just sort of thought that even if he didn't read the book, he would have at least read the last chapter before taking the exam. You know what I mean? Every person knows that if you're going to try to BS and pretend that you read the book, you better read the last chapter in case a character dies before you try to write an essay, right? And I was wrong. I was forlored when I saw him again do that obvious tell of his false bravado. He just lies, of course. And the manner that this man lies, it should be taught in a psych course. I've never seen anything like it. And I just recognized it. Now I was familiar with his style when I asked him

which charge specifically he thought Tyler Robinson was guilty of. It was because I wanted to make sure I didn't make an assumption that he was more flexible in other areas as we as we dove into this recent filing and he when he did the false of course bring it up I went oh he doesn't know any of them and so this obviously became the most discussed moment this man came in to debate Tyler Robinson's guilt and did not know guilty of what take a listen which one of the charges against or all of them, do you think Tyler Robinson is guilty of? The specific charge? Yeah.

Yeah. So what I think is that Tyler Robinson shot Charlie Kirk. Yeah, but of the seven charges that he's being charged. Yeah, can we list them real quick? I'll tell you exactly which ones. We'll pull them up. Well, do you know any of the charges that he's up for right now? Yeah, of course.

But I want to make sure that we have them listed. Yeah, but like that's, can you name one? Because my general perspective is that you don't actually care about this case. You're not following the case. That's the question. You're just not following it enough? It seems pretty like if you're going to engage and you're going to say the evidence is overwhelming that Tyler Robinson is guilty. I just think that you should.

All right. Can you tell me one charge? Then let's do the counter. You can really, hang out. This is a great got you. No, no. You just got to ask me play clips out of context. Put me in the hot seat. So please just answer the question.

This is fair. Name all seven since you've been following the case. Okay, sure. Go ahead. You name one. Yeah, you name all seven. I'm happy to do. that, but can you name one?

I think he's, I think he's been charged with murder. That's actually incorrect. Okay, great. Now, name all seven. He doesn't even, this is like. Name all seven. And I, and I, I, can't. Then do it.

Sure, you don't have to put it. No, do it. I'll count them. Go ahead. You don't have to put your fingers up. Okay, hang on. Yeah, sure. Name them.

The first charge is aggravated murder because that's what carries a death sensitive to the state of you. No, that's not, that is literally not murder. Okay. And so just there people, no, don't, I don't have to do it in a time limit. There's nothing going on. and just to explain people the difference of why that really matters and shows that he doesn't actually care about this at all is because aggravated murder, it's narrowly defined and because it carries a death sentence.

I'm not. I'm going to answer the question. You're just going to recognize that your strategy of thinking that people are intimidated when you try to put a time constraint doesn't work. And you'll be better the next time you do that. I got it. I got it. Give me the other ones. The more you cut me off the longer I'll take. Do you want to just wait for me to finish of why that's a big difference? No, I just want you to list the charges. Yeah. I'm going to do that. You just don't get to pretend that there's a time constraint. for me to do that. Well, how long is it take you to list seven charges? Because I'm speaking.

You just got to... It sounds like you're just delaying it because you don't know that. I know all seven of them. And I'm going to say again, because you're going to get embarrassed. You don't have to rush this. I'm also showing an example of a very flawed debate strategy. I actually want to know time constraint. I got one. Great. The second charge is the felony discharge of a weapon. The next two charges are for obstruction of justice. The next two charges are for witness tampering. And the final- What's the specific charges, though?

That is them. Obstruction of justice. Obstruction of justice. Witness tampering, witness tampering. Okay. And there's no other specifics to him. Well, I can tell you why he's being charged with it. No, no, no.

Just the charges and then seven? Yeah. See, the bad thing is when you try to be an A-hole and it doesn't work. What's the seventh? The last charge is violence in front of a minor. Okay. Got it. So then he's being charged with murder.

Shook. Shaken. I'm like, it's just, I can't even imagine. what it must be like. I mean, I know his wife is equally as bad, but just, it's just such a liar. Like, why say, of course, why not just say,

I actually don't know the specific charges, which would have been crazy, but then he just, it's this false provoid. This is how he debates. He just lies confidently and just lies. And then when you recognize it and you call him out, I'm a lie,

he falls apart, and he starts sticking more and more and more into the chair, sweating, develop some things in his teeth, you know, and I just, that entire personality of a man just could never, it could never drive with me. Like, I would never, for a single second, be intimidated by that because it's, like I said,

false bravado. There's nothing here that's remotely intimidating. You're just an idiot dressed up as some like, blood sport debater, bro. There's nothing weaker than not just saying, oh, I don't know that. I would like to know what the answer to that is. And I was hoping we would actually be able to have that constructive dialogue. I was upset that we could not spend more time discussing this case. and once that happened, he was completely deflated.

I mean, Andrew Wilson was very lost. It was almost like he had to remember things they wanted him to bring up. It was very obvious that his foot just wanted out. I think his foot wanted to tell the truth. The foot was just, it wanted out. They were like, oh, the foot holds the truth, you know. Andrew lies, but the foot just doesn't want to be there. His boot, he was literally shaking in his boots.

I don't know what was going on there. and he couldn't kind of regain any sort of composure. I didn't understand anything he was getting at beyond that. He started that bizarre inquisition about my show's timeline, demanding to know why it was my show's official timeline and why I had included Tyler Robinson and Pengwich eating a steak. I don't know if he's just averse to organization. Like I love organizing timelines make sense to be.

I love highlighting them. I love putting time stamps. I'm very proud of that. I don't know what he was getting at. He just wanted to know. I'm like, I spoke to the owner. The owner told me that he pulled the receipt, that it was Tyler Robinson's receipt.

And so I included this on my timeline. And then the receipt that was shared was the real receipt. And then he's like, well, why didn't you ask the merchant? Like, he's like, this is still not evidence. You got to call, you got to call Visa and MasterCard. I mean, take a listen to what he said. It was so absurd. Well, the reason I'm asking you is because you always include it in your timeline

that he traveled to the steakhouse. Yeah, we've been building. building a timeline with things that we feel are. But is there any actual evidence? I think speaking to the owner, knowing that there's a receipt, seeing the receipt is good enough to put on our timeline. But the receipt itself, the question I always had about it is couldn't you just call the merchant, like if I've ever had a merchant account, I just call the merchant account

processor and say, what's the name on this? Yeah, I would stay tuned. I feel that the, haven't spoken to the owner, that the evidence is compelling enough to put onto my personal timeline of what took place. on that day. That's where it's going to stay. And if it gets debunked, I'm happy to take it off. If that's what you mean, that's how an investigation works. Like I said, I did more than enough. It would definitely pass the test by the Utah 1102 rule, for sure, for certain. To be submitted as hearsay. Yeah, beyond that, because they didn't even have receipts. They were like,

Bob told me this. But the question is, the receipt itself, it has not been verified to have been Tyler Robinson. holding me to a higher standard than you are. I'm not even holding you. I'm just asking specifically. Yeah, I've been very forthcoming. I've told exactly what happened. I spoke to the owner.

I got the tip and I chased it down. So should that be added in an official timeline that you give? It's in my timeline. It's my show and we can add and subtract what we want. And we do if we get something wrong. Sure. But I'm asking should you include a thing that you know hasn't actually been verified to be Tyler Robinson. Yes.

You should. If we're trying to build a timeline, you should. Yeah. You don't think that that falls under. And then you should remove it if you, if someone somehow debunks it. but I think that there is very strong evidence that that is where he was. And that is... What's the strong evidence?

Just the two people who said that they saw him? You know, I'm actually all good with B. I feel like I've sufficiently answered your question about how I got the information, what happened next. With the next stage of this investigation being somebody accessing his, knowing what his debit card wasn't confirming it, yes. And I do believe that that will happen. If it does not happen and it gets debunked,

I'll remove it from my personal timeline that I share on my show. He's like the first. first person account of the server saying that he served him. They contacted the FBI. He shared his experience. He recognized Tyler Robinson on the news. He gave an interview. The owner, I spoke to him. He said, he's like, that, none of that is positive evidence. I'm legitimately held to a higher standard of the FBI. Meanwhile, we got the lead investigator of the case up there and they're asking him during the preliminary hearing, how did you know that the maroon person walking up the stairs, was the same person as the individual

who was wearing the black shirt later that day. And he says they were both wearing Converse sneakers. Andrew says that's compelling. Tweets that that's a part of the overwhelming evidence. Me, did you call Visa and MasterCard? Beyond speaking to all of these people, beyond the receipt, did you call to confirm a visa with the merchant

that this was in fact the Tyler Robinson who was up. No, actually, I haven't done that. But you know what? My timeline is going to stay my timeline. I'm proud of my timeline. A very organized person. My pantry is very clean. I love the container store. I use label makers for everything. Even my seasonings in my cabinet. I have label makers in my refrigerator. So I will not allow you to tell me about how my timeline should be organized. That's what I want to say. I almost lost it there. So Rubin moms who have organized pantries, stand up. At the end of the day, I am so embarrassed for Turning Point USA. I cannot imagine Erica hugging this person. I've got to show you guys more clips. He is literally disgusting,

right? And they thought this guy was going to be able to take me down. I was trained by Charlie Kirk, and they sent me Andrew Wilson. But I will say on a positive note, it was bittersweet because it was just amazing to remember all of those things that Charlie told me not to do, not to fall for, don't start attacking him personally. I did not engage in that. He opened with that at hominant attacks against me, remembering to always overstudy. Like I took it very seriously. Obviously, I was not planning gotcha clips, but I was marking up filings, reminding myself, rewatching the preliminary hearing, going back to the timeline to remind myself because so much has transpired, obviously, in 11 months. And Charlie used to always tell me that you see people get crushed in these sorts of debates who are overconfident.

And then there's just like the one kid who asks a question that throws them off and it goes viral. So never underestimate your opponent. I know what to expect. And I obviously not expect that he was just going to be one of these weird middle-aged men with gotcha clips. I thought he was genuinely going to read at least one of the case violence or know one of the charges. But it was, like I said, good to go through that again. And to be studying and to do the thing that he said with the note cards, I did every single thing that Charlie told me to do and to stay calm when they're trying to poke you, be aware of people that are trying to put you into these sorts of legal traps. And it genuinely, when it concluded, we were just like cheering.

We were so happy. Bittersweet, obviously, because I never thought in any of that learning with Charlie that it would one day be me debating someone that. his organization clearly sent. But such is life. And I'm happy that it is me that is exposing what his organization has become in the wake of his assassination. Anyway, we'll be right back after a brief break. All right, you guys, I want to pass along a heartfelt thank you from my friends over at

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You'll pay just $15 a month for your first three months on any plan. Simply head to PureTalk.com slash Owens to claim this offer. Again, that's puretalk.com slash Owens to start saving today. Okay, so much that I want to say about the reaction on the internet, it was fantastic. First and foremost, I don't think the left and right have ever been united on anything. But in our general sense of what Turning Point USA has become, we're united. Genuinely, he performed so badly, like not even the neocons would touch it. The best they could do for Andrew Wilson was to say, it was unwatchable.

No one, I couldn't even watch it. I couldn't even watch it. So it doesn't even matter how anybody did. And everyone who was backing him to sort of backed off immediately and they're doing their best, but they can't pretend. the memes have been exceptional from the left and from the right. They have been exceptional mocking him. It's amazing to see.

This man is not a conservative, by the way. I'm so sick of these like wannabe like sea list people that come out and then just call themselves conservatives, but obviously live their lives in a way that is anything but their complete frauds. I'm going to go through some of my favorite memes. Andrew first off coming out and declaring that he won by asking not chat GPT, he asked Claude, and Claude told him, since every poll said he didn't win with humans, he then went to Claude and drummed up a conversation, I guess, and Claude told him he really was the winner. He really was the winner.

Everyone who's a human didn't like you, but the robot community loves you. And he did tweeted this. Every AI source will say I won. This was never in question. Specific AI programs built for this purpose. He actually ended up getting a fact check on this, and people explained that this is just AI scraping from establishment sources. And we all know the establishment is behind Dirty Point USA. But this is just the most pathetic thing I've ever seen.

He literally crashed markets, by the way. During the debate, I didn't know that Polly Market had odds on whether or not Tyler Robinson would be convicted. And during the debate, the odds crashed. That represents our debate day. When you see that line going down, that is how poorly he performed. Tyler Robinson convicted of homicide dropped. into the 30s, I think it hit 34% during our debate, which was positively hilarious.

But the, I'm going to show you some of my favorite memes. So you might have seen on a thumbnail. If you are not following this account, I think it's wear forbidden clothing is the at handle. I want to make sure I get that correct. They are so funny. For years, actually, I've been following them. They are so funny. But this video that they created, this AI video, which went viral this weekend and

which is represented, as I said, on my thumbnail, just tickled me so much of Erica calling in, uh, Andrew after that abysmal performance. Take a listen and a watch of this. Wait, wait, I can explain. Shabbat shalom, Andrew. What? We invested a lot in you. I was having nicotine withdrawal. The chair was uncomfortable. I barely slept my foot with silence. She asked you to name one of the seven charges. You said positive evidence 47 times. It was a framework.

47 times, Andrew. Bring me the jar. No, please, not the pickles. Jars wide shut. And just to correct that, the handle is at where forbidden on X. And the reason why jar is wide shut is because this goes back to a moment where he was being disrespectful to a woman who couldn't open a jar. I think it was actually of olives or pickles on the whatever podcast. cast and he was smoking a cigarette and then they she said okay then you open it and he couldn't open it so

now he's kind of called pickle boy and that again his false verbato all the time is what gets him into these circumstances i absolutely loved that i also loved the stages of grief everybody griefs differently so he's grieving by first talking to claude the five stages of debate grief this is from at alpha approved they write denial i totally won that debate number two anger that was rigged biased unfair that's actually going to happen his wife Number three, bargaining. Okay, maybe I lost, but Candace is worse. Number four, depression. Why do I even debate? And number five, acceptance, which will come, which will say, he will come out and say, all right, maybe I should have prepared. Maybe I should have known one of the charges. We are at phase one, and we are also at phase two, which I can give you an example of his wife trying to suggest that we maybe rigged the mic pieces is crazy. Okay, I have one in my ear right now. It allows us to hear with the producer. are saying, as I told you, his guy Rob, who was very professional and kind. So no shade to Rob, was sitting next to them. And that's why he was saying, could you pull a clip or whatever? His team

was right next to my team. And these earpieces do not work beyond 15 feet out of the control room. So they just, and Andrew will tell you that. Every time he got up, he had to reset it. They don't work. So there's no one else that could possibly be talking in your ear because of the structure of our walls. So anyway, Rachel, response, who is his, like, horrific wife, responds to somebody trying to pretend that I was receiving intel on that last question because they're still coping over this. Was Candace Owens being fed answers? Something about the debate caught my attention. Both Candice and Andrew appeared to be wearing in-ear monitors. So what are these actually used for?

And he kind of goes through all this. I literally turned these people into a conspiracy theorist by the end of it. He started off by calling us conspiracy theorists. and then by the end of it, he was going through my phone and thought that I was texting people for answers. That's amazing. That's a flawless victory. That's a flawless victory.

To end it with him suggesting a conspiracy where what I was actually doing when he came back in a chair, because I barely got up. I literally only got up one time that entire. He went up every break. I did not get up. I was tweeting. You guys saw me tweet right before that.

I sent one tweet. I texted nobody during the entire debate because I was focused. I was locked in. But then I was like, I'm going to set a funny tweet because I feel pretty confident I won this. And when he came back, he saw me doing that and thought that I texted someone, which is very funny. And guess what? The answer to a conspiracy theory, I demonstrated for him. Here's my phone.

Just answer the question. Make the person feel comfortable. You don't have to go crazy. And it's that the one thing Turning Point USA does not want to do at all is answer any questions. They just want to send these debate bros, I guess, out. But this was absolutely hilarious that I thought that meme was fantastic. Like we also created our own meme because I used to be anti-Turning Point USA shills, but he's different. I don't want anybody referring to Andrew Wilson as a paid show. Andrew Wilson is not a paid show. Is this like the Drizzy meme, TPSA, sending paid shills, not cool.

T-PUSA sending shills that pay? We're with it. We're with it. Send more turning point. That's how you'll show them. Pay $100,000 an hour to be embarrassed. Genius. What a great idea.

That's amazing. my new rate, $100,000 if you want me to embarrass you. He must be into that or whatever. Anyways, his wife had responded to that and pretended, like, tried to add to it. Like, I know that they had headpieces, but I'm not really sure why they had these headpieces. I believe the contract stipulated that each them was allowed to wear an earpiece. That's just a lie. Why do they lie so much?

Why do they lie all the time? No, the earpieces, which he and I were sharing, left and right, were just a producer. our producers. We all heard the exact same thing and PBD had a direct line to them. Then this cope was hilarious because obviously Stephen Crowder is somehow invested in this and, you know, just never growing up. And he, when he did the, I guess he was on the phone with Andrew Wilson right after the debate was speaking to him. He kind of tried to imply like one way that we tried to hurt him was by not providing him with hair and makeup because he looked like he was sweating. Like that was our fault or something. Take a listen.

to this absurd exchange. Did they Nixon, JFK you, because she has a full stylist and makeup crew, did they give you makeup and, like, no, no, no. You looked a little bit. You looked a little bit shiny. You looked a little shiny. You looked a little shiny.

Yeah, it looked a little shiny. It happens. I don't even know what to say about it. It's just, it's like, first and foremost, we do not have, again, asserting something confidently and lying. I know they have war, we do not have, and nor have we ever had wardrobe. We do not have a full-time makeup artist. We do not have a full-time hairstylist, none of that. So in between takes, I take care of myself. Always, that's it. Everybody

knows that my cousin does my hair. She's a one that gives me the blowouts and takes care of my hair. People have known this for years since before I was even a podcaster. She hasn't taken care of my hair. And our makeup artist was actually off that day. She does a glam and go, though. So it's like in the morning, she comes in and then she leaves. So this being a point, like, like as a PBD, somebody was coming out and flying in and making him look good and making me look good, that this is how much these people were coping, like trying to find a conspiracy to make it seem like there was something that was not fair. If you look greasy, pull up a mirror, instead of going out and having a cigarette and having a smoke and, you know, powder your own face.

I don't know what to tell you. We're a small team and we're just not, we don't care about things like that. We don't want to spend a bunch of money on things to make ourselves feel important. and my favorite of the copes was his wife conceding exactly what us conspiracy theorists have been saying since the very beginning is that actually the grifters are these people. They know nothing about the case at all. They just want to go on TV and say, oh, this person's scared me. This person won't debate. They don't know anything. So she writes this long tweet.

And it's right there in yellow. She says, of course Candace will know the details better. So she admits I knew the details better. She's been covering this day in and day out for 11 months and doing practically nothing else. Andrew had about six days to prepare. There's no way he was going to beat her on having more knowledge of the details. Goodness, Rachel. Wow, this is a wife that she admits that I beat him on that, A, which stands against his, I wore the debate,

but also she admits he doesn't care about this. He walked into Turning Point USA headquarters in June and came out flashing around money and suddenly tweeting at me and attacking me because that's what they orchestrate at Turning Point USA headquarters. This is no longer a serious organization that cares about whether or not people are living their lives admirably. This is no longer, I mean, it is crazy to me that if you just go through the clips and learning about Andrew and Rachel Wilson, this is who they tied their horse to, this is who they're feeding information to, that any person would willfully donate to them, that any person would want their child to sign up for this conservative organization that is not

representing conservative principles. My opinion, by the way, what's my positive evidence for it? Andrew Wilson. Is that positive evidence? I don't know. What does it all mean? Can it be my opinion that Turning Point USA is a dumpster fire? Because that's what it is. I do want to address this very quickly. I realize we are now way over time. I don't know if we're going to have time for book club because I didn't realize I had so many words to say. But people were randomly, as soon as I said, I would take it. So first, it's she's scared, she's scared, she's scared, she's scared, there's money on the table. And that's what I'm doing wrong.

I'm being scared and not taking the money. Then I take the money, exactly what he offers, $200K, and I'm a bad guy because how could I take the money? These people are insane. They're just insane. There's no way to make them happy. They can't leave you alone and let you just investigate the case because you got the money's on the table.

And then they chastise you for taking the money. And they were all instantly like, Candace needs to establish a trust for Erica Kirk. Like the people outside of Michael knows, the people that I absolutely despise all saying this in unison, that I need to donate this money and establish a trust for Charlie's children.

And then people just randomly telling me what I should do with the money. Like, for example, this person, multimillionaire Candice Owens should donate her victory money to Tyler Robinson's defense if she really thinks that he's innocent. Andrew Wilson put his money where his mouth is.

Why doesn't Candace? Like, I didn't offer Tyler Robinson publicly go across things and say, I'm going to prove to people that I think he's innocent, I'm going to give $300. I never did that. I don't do those sorts of things.

That's not what I do. I'm not braggadocious. And nor would any person who knows the least been about finance be so stupid as to spend $300,000 to have a conversation with someone who debates for free. Always do my annual debates with Piers Morgan. They're for free.

Been debating all across college campus. I was doing that for free. I've had debates with Rabbi Shmuli, who I can't stand. on Pierce Morgan for free. And so it's just so interesting that actually my entire life, all these people ever do is message me, kindly and respectfully, and ask for a debate. No one has to throw money around. That's how it works. I've hosted debates. There's been no money involved. This is unique because Turning Point USA just hates me this much. And we're obviously

Blake Neff and Andrew Colvette were retweeting him as he was going after me and offering more and more money. And now they think the solution to that is for me to open a trust for Charlie's children, which in a way, I know it's not, but it feels like money laundering. The organization that's hunting me, you want me to then give the money to the person who would be in control. That would at first, of course, would be Erica. First of the most of what I want to say is there are a few things I despise more than fake altruism. People who do charity as a part of a PR program and not because it's necessary or needed. And Charlie Kirk's children have been multi-millionaires while he was alive.

and that increased in his death. Many people opened trusts, raised money. The last thing that Charlie Kirk's children need is more money. What they need is a stable parent. And unfortunately, I can't give them that. Right, I can't give them that. Mom doesn't want to be home. Dad can't be home.

And the one thing they need is not a bunch of influencers using them as a talking point and suggesting that 300 more K could plausibly make a difference. And like I said, there's something about it that just feels icky. Like the very people who sent the person to hunt you are basically trying to create a peer pressure campaign for you to give the money back. Like, I just, that's not going to stand for me. And so instead, what I would like to doubt is that I'm doing with my money thus far, what I've decided other than the fact that I did go to Waffle House this weekend is I'm going to take care of the people who took care of me. As this organization has fixated, sent influencers is a part and parcel of these group check.

that are coming together, protect Erica Kirk, people who have attempted to make our children feel unsafe, that they have gotten behind, retweeted, supported. I'm going to look out for those people. People like my sister, if you want an organization that's going to get money from me, it's going to be the Catholic Church, the priests that took care of me emotionally

when I was coming apart with the realization that Charlie and everything that he had worked for, he was being, he's been betrayed. He has. Charlie has been betrayed. Everybody can see that. You betray him every single day when you do these sorts of things.

You betray who he was. You betray the friendships that he had. You lie constantly about who he was, about the things that he was thinking. I am not going to take any instruction from Turning Point USA or any of their affiliates or any of these neocon dogs that they send out on what I should do with the money.

It's just not going to happen. So, yeah, I'm going to take care of my sisters. I'm going to give money to the Catholic Church. And then I'm going to decide what I want to do. That's it. You were the ones who offered the money. You were the ones who retweeted it. And so it's therefore mine.

You can skip all of your fake altruism. Why don't you guys give more money to that organization? Because the direction that they're headed, I don't see that this is going to be an organization in 10 years down the road. I see it crashing and burning like everybody else does. And like I said, for the first time ever, the left and the right. are united in their disgust for what this organization has become. And that was not a feeling that people had on the right, especially in the wake of the assassination. So you guys did this.

This was your loss, your L, and that's all I'm going to say about that. We'll be right back after a brief break. All right, you guys, do you owe back taxes? Do you have years of unfiled returns? Or maybe you file every year and you still can't get ahead because the balance keeps growing. Maybe you withdrew money from a 401k or an IRA and suddenly got hit with the tax bill that you never expected. Whatever caused the problem, one thing is certain. The IRS penalties and the interest keep adding up every single month. If you don't have a plan now, you could end up owing even more next tax season. Before the IRS starts sending more letters, garnishing wages, or freezing your bank account, call Tax Network USA. They've been helping taxpayers nationwide for more than 15 years resolving back taxes, unfiled returns, and serious IRS problems. So whether you owe $10,000 or $10 million, their team has resolved over $1 billion in tax debt. Right now, they're offering a free IRS investment. to get a call to find out exactly what you owe and what options you have to fix it. So call 866-686-1651 or visit TNUSA.com slash Candice. Again, that's TNUSA.com slash Candice.

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American financing borrowers save an average of $800 a month. Imagine what that kind of cash flow could do for your family. There are zero upfront fees and you may even delay up to two mortgage payments. So lock in your lower rate before September, call 800-795-12-10. Again, that's 800-795-1210 or visit Americanfinancing.net slash Owens. That's Americanfinancing.net slash Owens. Okay, I also want to let you guys know. We got so many messages, please sell the T-shirt. I can explain to you, but I cannot understand it for you.

Exhausted trying to explain this to him. We do have that available on our t-shirt. website. So if you go to kettistowens.com and you can have that t-shirt. We have them available. We also made that a sweatshirt. I can explain to you, but I can not understand it for you. T-shirts, different sizes of that available. And of course, a mug, which I can't wait to get if I can explain it to you. And we also put up this. This is my second favorite shirt. If you know, you know, it's in maroon. This is my, wear your second favorite shirt. If you've learned nothing from this podcast, to do bad stuff, you wear your second favorite.

favorite shirt, not your first favorite shirt. So we have some doom birth that's available on the website. And that is, of course, the easiest way to support us and support the work that we do and the investigation, which we can now refocus on, which was really none of their business at all, why Turning Point USA doesn't want people investigating and exploring other leads in the Charlie Kirk assassination. Boggles the mind. It really boggles the mind. Top comments from the great debate. Go Max Everyday writes, let me begin by reading this message from my sponsor, Turning Point USA. Yes, that is what it felt like. It was absurd. It had nothing to do with the debate claims. Know your sigh up. Second message, 75 to 85% confident Tyler did it is literally reasonable doubt.

I am so glad. I didn't even look at the comments. My producers pulled this. That you guys clocked it as well. It's crazy that they just concede the entire debate right at the beginning. So yes, you have a right to pursue other leads. No, you do not have to reach out to Visa and MasterCard and speak to the merchant to do so. I want you guys to know that. I may guys have to, I didn't realize you were so overtime on book clubs. We may need to do that tomorrow. We're finishing the book. And thank you to Book Club for allowing me to bump Friday to accommodate the great debate.

Comments from today's episode, True Detective writes, Andrew Wilson's rules the debate. Avoid knowing the facts of the case. Pretend to be intelligent and qualified. And don't mind that your list. left foot is nodding in agreement with Candace throughout the conversation. And question, when Andrew's wife makes him a sandwich is he expected to open the pickle bar to pickle jar? I mean, that relationship is just odded space toxic. Like I said, you should go look at clips

of her disgusting mouth and the things that she says in the whatever podcast and how she speaks and they're branding themselves as Orthodox Christians. And he said on some stream that his wife went in and spoke to the executive at Turning Point USA. That's why I said, Turning Point USA is just over. Like we can't, this Christian Sia pass to end. We just have to stop pretending. Erica on her face is, I can't get a sentence out without saying the Lord, the Lord, the Lord. She's hugging Andrew Wilson.

These are who is being brought into our organization and given money to train people to debate. I'm sorry, people are clocking that. I'm sorry, it's not positive. It's not positive evidence, but it feels like some evidence that the whole brand is fraudulent now. It feels like evidence that Turning Point USA is now essentially trying to sell people faux Christianity while they behave in just the most attestable way behind the scenes. And now it's in front of the scenes. Like I said, I can't wait for him to drop that message. They have themselves in a pickle with that message.

He says he's dropping it this week. Do your thing, Andrew. Do your thing. We woke now, writes in the words of my grandmother, he don't know. know no better. Way to stay above the muck. Yes, I was just not going to meet him on his level. He came across his petty and just these men are too old for this. Like, you know what I mean? He's almost 50. Stephen Grower's 40. Like, grow up. Be professional. What are you, what are you all doing with these accounts that you're dedicating to tweeting about Candace Owens 90 times a day?

Find something that gives you purpose and go after it. I don't know you. I don't know these people. Like, it's crazy. I literally have never met Stephen Crowder. So that entire obsession with me is just because I covered when he was brating his wife and said it was gross because it was. It just was. Chris Angelo writes, one thing that is actually overwhelming is how proud Charlie is of you as he smiles from heaven. The Holy Spirit truly gave you the patience and discernment needed for the debate. Keep going max for the truth and for Charlie.

Christ is king. Thank you for saying that. And like I said, that was the bittersweet thing is I was reminded of just, I really feel like I have this, Charlie. know you should still go over everything because it just takes one question and for someone to throw you off your game. You have to stay updated and I did all of that. And I'm glad that it worked out. Jenna wrote, you were amazingly to be. I offered my daily mass and rosary for you on Friday. I'm so proud of you. Such a role model for my four daughters. Christ is king. Yeah, that's one of the first things I did. I went to a Saturday Mass and just thank the Lord, you know, just for the ability to communicate in a way.

and to have the opportunity to expose what we all know is going on. And that's, by the way, the real purpose of what Andrew was doing was to distract us. With nothingness, they brought no new people to their side. It's just the same establishment media trying to convince you that you should not believe your own eyes and your ears. And that's what we have for right now. That's what we're living right now. Riley, England writes Candace, what a masterclass for how gracefully and brilliantly you defend your convictions with facts. We all know you did this for Charlie.

You displayed a restraint in a class that I look up to. when you clearly owned pickles. L.L. St. Joan of Arc, pray for us. Indeed. That is my patron patron saint. And I hope that people did learn that you just stay calm. And yeah, I could have forced him, like I want to just talk about the case. But I, like I said, I actually know that my audience is smarter than that. I believe in my audience. I know people can see through that. They saw right through him in the same way that I saw through him, maddening to hear him keep telling us stuff happened five seconds ago. That didn't happen five seconds ago, but say it with like smugness and arrogance. You said, you said this. No, I literally didn't say that. Like, you don't have magical powers here, sir.

Zammett writes, I think Andrew Wilson was hoping to open the pickle jar with the screwdriver that they planted on the rooftop. Indeed. Cowlands writes, thank you, Candice, followed you since Fox News. You're no more on Fox. Thank God for you and Charlie with love. Thank you. And Jay Beam writes, it really freaks me out that Andrew said, you could just not do what you are doing, seeking the truth and asking questions, and be okay. He said that quote, you could just not do what you're doing and be okay.

It's almost as if he is aware or realized on air that you are close to the truth, totally creepy for him to say that, a bit worried. It was strange to me that he so instantly jumped into the Israel and France narrative, which, by the way, people would add that to why they think Israel is suss, because why does it take and require

so many people to try to tell us that Israel's not involved. Why is that a priority for you at all? Your debate claim is the evidence is overwhelming that Tyler Robinson did it. If the evidence is truly overwhelmed what Tyler Robinson did it, you defending and proving your debate claim

would take care of the Israel one. But he doesn't want to do that. He doesn't want to talk about or defend the claim. He said, wants to go, why do you think Israel did it? Where is your positive evidence? My positive evidence is you sitting here right now

prioritizing defending Israel rather than your claim. It's us. People think it's suspicious because it is. You keep trying to force this Israel didn't do it narrative, and the more that you do it, we go, mm, just doesn't make sense,

trying to constantly emphasize this. The best way to prove Israel's innocence is to prove Tyler Robinson's guilt. And you failed to do that. People should be taking a look at the Israel narrative. We have a right to ask questions. We're going to continue to do that. True, I think I read that.

Jenna, oh, I think I did, I read that one as well, and I think I read them all. I think I'm good, actually. Seven Sheets was the one I was missing. Seven Sheets wrote, I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. Wow, we need merch. This will go down and debate history. Kudos to your bravery once again, but they must realize we are a legion right behind you. God is with you. Thank you so much for you guys being with me. I think our audience actually grew. The platform got bigger. And it's because telling the truth, also exercising, is really important. And if you learn anything from this debate, like, if you don't know something, just say you don't know it, you're not required to be an expert at everything. I didn't even dive into. It sounded crazy when he said the bullets split in air

and caused error. It felt like another one of his confident lies. But I wasn't going to pretend to be a ballistics expert on splitting bullets midair that create air under your shirt. And I just trusted the internet. they will take a look at that. The hunters, the common sense people, we're going to go, this man is once again lying boldly about that claim. And sure enough, we've already seen videos of people

just going, he's clinically insane. I had Air Force veterans messaging me being like, I cannot believe he said this on your platform. And that's the point. This is how we grow. This is how we are Legion, because people go, that is such an absurd lie to tell that I now need to look into what what Kansas has been saying. And so many people then go back and they watch the content and they recognize the holes. And we are doing this because we know that everything is wrong with the Charlie Kirk narrative. Literally everything is wrong with this narrative. And like I say to you guys all the time, they're not going to get away with it. Positive evidence or not, I sense that we are getting closer to the truth and they are getting panicked. But here's what I will say.

There has to be a consequence for Turning Point USA. There does. There has to. Vengeance does not belong to me, but the truth belongs to everybody and you know there's nothing I do better than sentencing them to more truth. So get excited because tomorrow we will be sentencing Turning Point USA to more truth which is what they want. More truth and transparency, right?

You send an absolute slob to my home to debate me, to disrespect me by not just being honest and forthright about who he wanted to bring here to violate our rules of no filming where my children play. we drop more truth that's it that's all i'm never going to say that that's it that's all anyway that will be tomorrow i am very already late on book club do we have can we do it tomorrow's guy can we just check

the calendar i feel like i have when am i doing i think i have i'm doing um dave smith show right that's at noon okay hold on guys i'm i got to get you on the calendar just give me a second Wednesday cannot do. Yeah, but let's do Thursday. Yeah, because I think I want to, I, I, um, on a pack going away with the husband for, uh, our anniversary number seven. I just casually have a conversation like that, right?

I'm like, I do this. I, yeah, I think we should do, we should do Thursday. Okay, perfect. All right, you guys, um, book club people. I will see you on Thursday. Um, get excited, you guys for tomorrow. I love when the puner. is more truth. Your punishment is more truth, Turning Point USA. We will see you guys then.