Candace - Piers Morgan x Candace Owens | Candace Ep 123

Episode Date: December 18, 2024

Piers Morgan joins me in London to discuss his background, the state of modern journalism, his thoughts on the Gaza–Israel conflict, and what his plans for the future hold. PreBorn! To donate, dial pound 250 & say the keyword “BABY” that’s pound 250 “BABY” or donate securely at https://preborn.com/candace Tax Network USA For a FREE private consultation visit http://www.TNUSA.com/Candace Or call 1(800)-958-1000 American Financing Act today! Call 800-795-1210 or visit http://www.AmericanFinancing.net/Owens NMLS182334, http://www.NMLSconsumeraccess.org PureTalk Get 50% off your first month at http://www.PureTalk.com/Owens Candace on Apple Podcasts: https://t.co/Pp5VZiLXbq Candace on Spotify: https://t.co/16pMuADXuT Candace on Rumble: https://rumble.com/c/RealCandaceO Subscribe to Club Candace: https://www.clubcandace.com Join The Candace Community on Locals: https://candace.locals.com #CandaceShow #Candace #CandaceOwens #News #Politics #Culture #PopCulture Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No Frills delivers. Get groceries delivered to your door from No Frills with PC Express. Shop online and get $15 in PC Optimum points on your first five orders. Shop now at nofrills.ca. All right, guys, I'm really excited about this because everybody sees him on the Internet. He's always interviewing people. He's quite controversial, but not really controversial because he just hosts the controversies. He's like a Jerry Springer of YouTube. It's been very, very effective. Piers Morgan, welcome to Candice.

Oh, it's great to be here. I used to love Jerry Springer. I actually did America's Got Talent with Jerry Springer. I was a judge. He was the host. We both lived at the Beverly Wilshire Hotel in Los Angeles. And we used to lie by the pool on our sandbags and plot global domination together. So I take that as a great compliment. You should. I was shocked when I learned that he was a Brit. Well, not only that, was he born here during the Second World War, by the way, during the Blitz in one of the subway tunnels.

Jerry was a fascinating guy. He was the mayor of Cincinnati. He was a TV series news anchor for many years, and then he got asked by the network, can you just do this pilot for this crazy new show? He didn't really want to do it. He did it and it became so unbelievably successful

and made so many hundreds of millions of dollars. He could never leave it alone. But he used to say to me, it is the worst show on TV. But it's making me unbelievably rich. And it was a fascinating story. He was a really interesting character yeah he's a legend i mean you just can't deny it he did something totally different and yeah it was trashy tv but also we all grew up watching it at some point there was an honesty to

it you know where people everyone knew what was going on they all went on for a reason to have their moment they wanted to have their moment and their story and who are we to be snobbish enough to say well you're not allowed to we only listen to Beyonce these days it's like you know it was kind of egalitarian I liked it yeah I agree so I think the critique that people would have of you is they don't really know what you believe like are you a chronic fence sitter do you actually believe anything or do your opinions just go to return this way to return this little passive-aggressive hand movement, I'm a journalist. And what I've realised, especially in the last two or three years, as the YouTube side of what I've done has got bigger and bigger,

I've reverted back much more to being a journalist. I don't think journalists should be ideological about the news. I like to have people on who are ideologues, right and left. I like to be the ringmaster to their debates, as you said, the Jerry figure, if you like. But the woke left has been so insane that rather like Bill Maher, I now get identified by the left as conservative, because actually, I'm just not prepared to entertain any of the woke madness. And in that process, the pendulum of my personal politics has probably shifted much more central, if not slightly center right. But if you ask me what I am, I don't say a

conservative or liberal or any of these things. Now, I say I'm a journalist, and my job is to actually hold everyone to account. And I think we do that in a way that's actually reasonably unique now, in the world that we're in. I'm the one that holds all these big debates, they get very fiery, but we get everybody on and I like that. i actually think you are doing a tremendous job i have to say that i wasn't so keen on peers four years ago but i think this year you have actually proven yourself to be very even just hosting both sides allowing both people to speak and not giving into sort of the ad hominem attacks the things that are dismissive like you will call out someone and say yeah this is not debating. You're just calling this person names. I also know someone like you, for example, right?

People ask about you and they say, well, she's this, this, this, and this. What I've learned is don't necessarily buy into those narratives. Go and actually do your own research. Work out what these people actually said. See the context in which they said it. See what their explanation was for why they said it. Often leads you to a very different conclusion than the ones that people like to easily pigeonhole people into. And that, again, is something I've had to learn. I used to be very judgmental as a newspaper

editor in particular. And I think I've tried to be less judgmental now. I'll have lots of opinions. But when it comes to individuals in particular let me just find out myself and I think that is a healthy thing to do in a world where there's a lot of ad hominem a lot of twisting going on a lot of little cuts that appear I see it myself about about me and I often say to people I know you think I'm really controversial but what is the view of mine that you find most controversial and when they try and answer they really struggle because all they've seen is me on tiktok and someone shouting and they haven't actually listened to what my views are that's exactly right and i think we saw that definitely i know i defended you on my

show a long time ago when everything went down and you got fired and the media was spitting this as if you were a racist i mean it's all the things that you could have said about pierce morgan i was like okay he's suddenly a racist it was so preposterous and in fact worse than what happened to me was what happened to sharon osborne if you remember at the talk who were sharon underwood and the show's now being canned i'm pleased to say because it really died that day when they did this because it's a show called the talk you're supposed to be allowed to talk sharon just supported me. She didn't even say she agreed with what I said about Meghan Markle, although now, ironically, I'd have been fired for saying the complete opposite.

If I said I believed Meghan Markle after the Oprah interview, people would now fire me for believing Pinocchio, right? So at the time, it seemed so contentious and outrageous to disbelieve her or to think a lot of what she was saying couldn't possibly be true and now it doesn't seem that way but Sharon all she did was say I support peers we've been friends for a long time we worked again on America's Got Talent with Jerry and she was just showing a bit of loyalty to me without actually getting into what I'd said and then Sharon was what even supporting with these racist things he said is you hang on hang on what racist thing did he say and it all blew up she got blindsided and she got fired from a talk a job she loved

for having the audacity to support me even though everyone knew i hadn't said a racist thing not one word cheryl underwood couldn't actually say what it was i was supposed to have said that was racist it was utterly shameful of cbs to do what they did to Sharon that day. And the fallout from that whole Oprah interview, if you watch the whole sequence of events, really a shocking attack on freedom of speech is really what it came down to. You could say something right now. I'm entitled to say I don't believe you. And you're entitled to say, well, I'm right because boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

But the idea that your first reaction is, if you don't believe me, you're racist because I'm not white. Sorry, what? That's the criteria. I'm not allowed to disbelieve you because of your skin color. That's how preposterous it was. You know what? It's really interesting because obviously I kind of made my mark as a black woman who was anti-BLM from the very beginning because I saw this. I saw this budding and people who sort of were taking this perspective that black people became untouchable after the George Floyd. They're allowed to steal a flat screen TV from Target. You can't criticize that. And if you do, it's because you're a racist, not because you have some basic dignity and morals. But I'm seeing the same thing now. It kind of has changed

definitely post-October 7th. And I've seen those same accusations where it's like, okay, well, if you're critiquing this foreign nation and Bibi Netanyahu, of course, none of us would want our Jewish friends to be harassed. But it's the same exact same woke game of, well... If you criticize the Israeli government, you must be anti-Semitic. Yeah, you hate jews and it works the other way too i see it on both sides but this is where we've got to and it's the same with the trans debate about trans athletes in women's sport we may get to that but i felt very strongly about that that any any attempt to challenge the accepted view that this is fair

and rational to allow biological men to put their hands up say they're women in competing women's sport and and hammer women into the ground literally with their fists in boxing rings in the olympics the idea that if you do that you are transphobic that you have a hatred of trans people i just find completely outrageous and it's being used more and more by the woke left as a form of as as Elon calls it, a form of communism really. This is communism at bay. I call it fascism. It's the same kind of thing in the sense of it's a group of militant people who are trying to shut down any dissent, trying to make everyone see the world through their narrow prism, be it communism or fascism. It's the same mindset

and we will destroy people who do not conform to what we have laid down is the new rule book for life. And people who believe in freedom of speech and freedom and democracy, you have to fight this with every inch of your life. Because if we don't, we will go down that path of communism, of fascism, of that control world that they want. And that way madness lies. All right, guys, taking a moment to remind you about Preborn, because every baby's life is a precious gift full of potential and dreams that are waiting to unfold. That's why Preborn, the nation's largest pro-life organization, is on the front lines for at-risk babies and mothers that

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and say the keyword baby. Again, that's pound 250 baby. Or you can donate securely at preborn.com slash Candice. Again, that's preborn.com slash Candace. You know, actually going back to your point about Sharon, the peer pressure that you're speaking about at the top is it's really important to speak to this because in a way you either conform or you get fired once you get to a certain level in life. And we obviously saw this with you. It's like either you say good things about Meghan Markle because right now we're at the tail end of BLM and you can't insult a woman who's doesn't even, if I'm looking objectively, look black. I wouldn't have guessed she was black if she didn't offer it.

But you're seeing that with Sharon Osbourne. It's like, okay, well, you now have to make a decision. Are you going to be a decent human being and a good friend and be honest about the fact that, you know, this man, you've known him for years and he's not a racist? Or are you going to say, well, you know, Pierce shouldn't have said the thing, peace of your soul dies, but at least you get to keep your career. We're seeing people confronted with that. Well, I was told very categorically by ITV here, who are the NBC of the UK. They said, look, if you apologize for disbelieving her, you can keep your job. And I said, well, I'm not going to do that, which I think they probably knew.

And I literally left that afternoon. It was a fait accompli. You apologize, you keep the job. In other words, you grovel. You grovel to Meghan Markle, who, unbeknown to me, had written a personal letter to the chief executive of the company, who was a woman, and had said to her, I write to you as a woman and as a mother you have to fire him and I wasn't told that in the deliberations that went on that

day had I known that I would have gone public with the whole thing and had a very different argument with them I would have just dug my heels in and went you're going to really allow this duchess to decide who works at ITV um I only found this out after the event two days later that would have changed how things played out quite significantly. But what was interesting was in the moment, it was also February, it was kind of chaotic and mayhem and it was leading the news and everything else. And I just remember it turned on a dime in about 24 hours. I began walking around. I felt like the Pied Piper. There were literally people, bus drivers tooting horns, cab drivers cheering me,

public coming across roads to hug me, to shake my hand, because they understood that actually what it was about was a battle for free speech. And they understood that if you want to be actually British, or American obviously, but if you want to be British, actually you've got to fight for free speech. This is what Churchill thought the Nazis about, freedom and democracy and free speech. People lost their lives on battlefields so that we have the right to actually exercise our right to free speech. And this played really strongly with the public. I had a book out. It had just come out. I remember it was like number 2000 on the Amazon chart, just the first few days. It went to number one in three days and it stayed there for weeks

and sold a huge amount of copies because the book was called wake up and it was a clarion call to the liberal left to wake up and stop this woke madness before it was too late and i'm almost going to another book going told you right because you look at the scale of trump's win in the u.s election and you one of the reasons was cost of living, obviously, one was illegal immigration. But a third big plank of this was the basic destruction of the woke mind virus. They brought in a vaccine called Trump and Elon Musk, you know, who basically, I know you won't like the analogy to a vaccine, but they vaccinated the woke mind virus in spectacular fashion. And a lot of young men in particular went,

I'm just done with this. I'm sorry, I'm just done with this crap. It's not based on fact. I'm not going to be bullied anymore into going along with this nonsense. And I'm going to exercise my right to freedom and freedom of speech and freedom of thought and expression. And I think that was a really important part

of that election, actually. I'm very glad to have seen it. I've just noticed some things, being someone that's married to an Englishman, that there are these slight differences across the pond, and it's hard for people to really understand what those differences are. But there is no battle for free speech in the UK, I would say. It's already lost. And I think that's why you're a very interesting character,

because you're quite American, whatever I would say. Spiritually, I would say you're American, in that you kind of take the fight to the front. You'll stand by your principles. And British society can be quite complacent, I would almost say. They prefer to be polite rather than to fight. And what we're seeing happening here now in terms of speech, what's happening with Keir Starmer, the censorship that's being called for. It's quite appalling, but I don't really understand in the fabric of England how it's possible to change that or go the other direction. We have a very strong establishment in this country, which is a bit of an anathema to Americans who don't really understand it. It comes down from

the royal family, from a sense of class that we have in this country, of privilege, of wealth, going back to the wealthy landowners who ruled the roost and the peasants were all doing all the hard graft. And it's not like that anymore, but certainly there's still this sense of the establishment. And if you dare to take on the establishment, then you can end up in very hot water very quickly.

And people here are probably naturally slightly more polite than Americans about these things, slightly more reverential. We still doff our cap to the monarchy, which you will find completely absurd. But I always think if it hadn't been for Mad King George III, you would still have a monarchy and you might even have King Piers. And wouldn't things be better for America if you did? But I think it's a fair criticism. Americans do tend to have that. That's why I think one of the great moments of the election for Trump was the fight, fight, fight when he got shot, was that instinctive combative streak of fight.

We are a nation of fighters here too, but we've been battered into submission, particularly on issues like free speech. I feel very uncomfortable when I see people, you know, grandmothers being rounded up and put in prison for something they put on Facebook, even if what they're putting is offensive and horrible and vile. Actually, as Churchill himself said, the thing about free speech is it's not listening to stuff that you agree with. It's about the ability to hear things you really don't agree with vehemently, but accepting that someone's right to free speech.

Now, I get there are lines about incitement to hatred and violence. Of course there are. But really, old people gobbling off on Facebook, they're going to prison. When you think about types of people who don't go to prison these days, I think a lot of people in Britain feel uncomfortable about this creeping censorship. And as someone who lost his job, big job here, over a really crude example of censorship, that's an example where, ironically, the UK regulator for television,

which, again, Americans wouldn't understand what that concept is, but we have a television regulator called Ofcom who regulate how people can behave on the airways. They ended up finding it in my favour and said that had I not been able to say what I said that had i not been able to say what i said that day on good morning britain about mega marco it would have been a chilling infringement of my free free speech rights but why is a media company having to be told that by the television regulator completely bizarre so i do think that you have the first amendment

which is an amazingly strong powerful tool um and i think that we lack something like that here and i think it's really you know elon musk has done a lot of stuff on this on on x i don't agree with all of him about about what he's saying but i certainly think he's he's hit onto something which is the natural instinct these days is to censor people and that's a dangerous path to go down take me through like your typical day i think people want to know who you are off the clock because you obviously are very involved. You follow politics. You are definitely giving a platform to people to at least expand their mind, even if they don't agree. They're hearing different version of events. But who are you actually off the clock? Well, like I said,

I've been a journalist all my life. So I see myself as a news junkie. So when I was seven or eight years old old we used to get the Daily Mail newspaper just a print paper then obviously and my mum remembers me going through it imagine I'm seven years old going through reading out headlines from the Daily Mail and asking about the story that's not normal so I had it in my blood there were a few journalists in my in my on my mother's side in the family and I I had this news junkie side to me I had to know what was happening you might call it I'm an inveterate gossip and that's partly to do with wanting to be the first with information and then to tell people what could be more exciting than being the first to know stuff

and then imparting it to the world so it was in my blood and even today I get five newspapers through the every day on my doormat and I love it? I used to run two big newspapers in the UK, two big national papers for 10 years. And I love the sound of a thud of newspapers, which I know sounds very anachronistic for someone who's now a YouTuber. And I'm aware that newspapers are basically going out of business. And my kids, my sons are 31, 27, 24.

They don't read print newspapers, obviously. They just read everything on their phones or whatever it may be. So I'm part of a dying generation of people who still like newspapers. But I love the thud of five newspapers. I get the Times, the Telegraph, the Daily Mail, the Sun, and the Financial Times. And they hit like a thud. And it still gets my juices flowing. And it's often early, like at five in the morning, I get up early, I think sleeping is

cheating. I get up early. And I read the paper and I pour over them with my old editor's eye, just for seeing what's going on. Then I'm onto my phone, I'm checking all the American sites, New York Post, New York Times, Daily News, whatever it may be, LA Times. I'm checking X, obviously, to see what's going on there, checking what you're up to, what mayhem you're causing, and a few of the big people in my space, and just seeing who's doing what and what clips are flying around, what's trending. And so by like 7 in the morning, I've had a really good snapshot, not just of what's happening here, which I only do out of habit, really, because all my material is now aimed to an American audience, primarily. But I like that I live here most of the time i've got a place in la and i go to america for three four months of a year but i still consider this my home um but i love to know the news so

by 7 a.m i know everything has happened and i know where i should be thinking about what i should be doing on my show and by then maybe like at 10 o'clock, my showrunner, Alex, will call me and he'll talk me through what the plan is for the show. Some of the bookings I'll have been involved with, others will be new to me. We'll have a mixture of one-on-ones and debates. Today's a classic example. We've got you one-on-one. We've got Eric Weinstein one-on-one.

We have a big debate about Israel, Gaza, and where we are with all that and bringing in Iran and Ukraine. And then we're going to have a big debate about America and probably actually factoring in on Trump and this $15 million payout he got from ABC, which is an extraordinary moment for legacy media when they're having to hand Donald Trump a $15 million check for calling him a rapist, which is what they've all been doing with impunity for years. I think these are kind of fascinating water cooler subjects. So that's the day pretty well planned out. But as you know, anything can happen. I've been there quietly congratulating myself on a show well done, come back home, maybe open a bottle of fine French Bordeaux,

have a little glug, and then I hear Trump just got shot. And then you know and I know, okay, well, that's the next three weeks gone then, and everything changes. So I love that again. I love the dynamism of the news where things can change in a heartbeat, literally. And through the day I'll then keep reading stuff, talking to people, might speak to a few people who've got a particular expert view about any of these issues to get a sense of what they think um you're always trying to cut through all the partisan noise and the people on the extremities of debate now the thing

about x's i think under elon might be a bit better now but it used to be that 10 of the people on x made 80 of the noise and you think that, and they're normally skewing to the extremities. There's a lot of extreme noise going on, and you need to cut through that and get to an underbelly of more interesting and rational debate where people don't know what they're talking about. You might not agree with them, but I always want to get a sense. When you and I debate, I often think, well, I don't agree with you,

but actually it's a really interesting debate. You've put the yards in to formulate your opinion. You're not just thinking of the first thing you've seen on tiktok and i think that's they're the type of guests i like if i like it more if i don't agree with them because it's more interesting you're on a little journey of exploration and i also don't like to be now this is not how i used to be used to be very intransigent i mean come to some of my more intransigent moments which i don't look back on in glory, but I certainly feel like I want to learn from people. I often end a debate now by saying to people, do you know what? I've learned so much from that debate, and that was really interesting.

And especially when you have two sets of people who know the facts but are interpreting those facts differently, but they're not challenging the reality of what happened. They're just saying, in my opinion, this means X, Y, Z. And this means xyz and the other person goes no no it means boom boom boom try to work out actually what does it mean you know people often say to me if you go back to the start of the israel and palestine conflict and say 48 and go back a lot further but say you go back to 48 you could construct a very good argument for both sides over the next 75 years. You could, if you were just sitting back and just taking a set of facts and trying to present the argument for the defence of Israel or the Palestinians, you could do a powerful piece for both.

And there was a Jewish journalist called Jonathan Friedland who actually said that, which I thought was interesting. And I sort of agree with that about almost all issues. And the challenge is to really get into the the weeds of these debates analyze the facts hear the different opinions and then hopefully the depending on the power of the argument the viewers at home a they learn a lot which is what a really a perfect show for me with their learning things but b they can formulate their own opinions and it may be they go one may be they go the other, and maybe they sit somewhere in the middle. That to me is a really good debate. Do you owe back taxes? Pandemic relief is now over,

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What do you actually think about it israel and palestine i think removing your journalistic hat which i know that you have been very even on a human level i'll tell you what i think i think that october the 7th is one of the worst things i've ever seen i think the retribution as i call it by israel has now gone way beyond what is acceptable um i take issue with people that want to frame it as genocide purely from a technical point of view, that actually the definition of genocide would mean that, you know, if Israel had killed a million people, I could accept the argument this is a bona fide genocide. It's more complex for me as a journalist when I look at this and compare it to

other genocides, and I compare it to other wars, that if you take the central argument of Israel, which is put aside everything that happened before, if you take October the 7th and the scale of it, with 250 people being kidnapped, including babies and Holocaust survivors, with 3,000 people coming over the border, attacking indiscriminately people, killing 1,200 and wounding nearly 7,000 people coming over the border, attacking indiscriminately people, killing 1,200 and wounding nearly 7,000 more. If you take the scale of what happened, Hamas knew what Israel was going to do by way of response. Hamas indisputably had buried themselves into civilian areas quite deliberately for self-protective reasons.

And Israel has been, I don't think they've been anything but indiscriminate actually in a lot of their attacks on these areas, particularly on the refugee camps. I think it's completely unconscionable some of the stuff they've done there. And I think that it's gone on way too long and it has to stop. And I think I always ask people throughout the debates, what is a proportionate response? I didn't have the answer. I didn't know what is the correct proportionate response to the scale of October the 7th. And that's before you factor in the

background and the history and what people see as the occupation of the Palestinians and the appalling plight of two million Palestinians in Gaza for so long. It doesn't factor in that. It's just, Hamas do this, what is the proportionate response that's acceptable? I think Israel's gone way beyond what is acceptable. However, I understand their argument that they are responding to, as they see it, a heinous terror attack, and they have vowed to get rid of the Hamas terrorists who did this, and that the only way to do that is to do it the way they're doing it. And I understand that that is their argument, and I understand that that, to me, is different to a country waging a wholesale genocide of a people.

So I think it's complicated, and I don't have all the answers, but as we sit here now, this has to stop. The levelling of Gaza has gone completely out of control. I mean, a lot of Gaza is unoccupiable now. I think the aggressive expansion on the West Banks has been a form of terrorism, which is completely unacceptable. I think some of the language of some of the cabinet members has bordered on genocidal. And I think that there are clearly some members of the Netanyahu cabinet who actually would have no problem if all the Palestinians left Gaza right now. And so I, you know, I'm not saying

that there's not a potential for a form of genocide to be here. We might look back at this in two years, and you might say to me, well, we told you, this is genocide, what they've done. They've got rid of all the Palestinians. That could happen. And I pray that doesn't happen.

And I pray that, as I've always felt, the only way through this ultimately is fresh leadership on all sides, as we saw in Northern Ireland, after many decades of horrific war between the IRA and the loyalists, that ultimately, they got to peace because leaders like Clinton and Blair and all these guys came together, and they were just determined to get it. And they managed to get a peace now where people in Northern Ireland live in relative peace relative peace and safety and they live amongst each other people used to be at war with each other it would be amazing to think that could happen uh but i think we're a long way off that there now so i that's my honest that's my honest human i think that was honest view of it i have a

good i have a good radar for honesty i think you're being very honest and i think it takes a lot tremendous for you to even say it because it's so strange to me that we've gotten to a point where people are too fearful to say that. What's happening has gone too far because they're scared of losing their jobs. And this really shows. And I mean, I call it lacude party media in America. They have this sort of stranglehold on the media and they sort of just will libel you and smear you and pretend that you're like a Nazi sympathizer, which gets really crazy. But what we are recognizing now, and you can sense their frustration,

is that media game has changed. Nobody cares anymore about the writing. Nobody cares who they're smearing, who they're libeling. It actually, in many ways, when they do these sorts of attacks and they're not based in reality, it helps the person. You know, like the person is given further belief, further credence because people go, okay, well, they took all of these fire and all these bullets because they said something that was true and something that was humane.

Where do you think the trajectory of media in America is going? I think legacy media is in massive trouble. I mean, you know, this $15 million payout by ABC to Trump for lying about him is a real turning point, right? Because Trump's win was so big and so across the board and such a repudiation of the legacy media. He basically did it by going on YouTube and podcasters. He just circumnavigated the traditional routes of running a presidential campaign. And it was incredibly effective. But also, it's the boy that cried wolf. You know, I just remember back to the first two years of Trump's first term when it was just Russia collusion, Russia collusion.

When you say things often enough and the public buy into it, I mean, it turns out to be there was no Russia collusion. Trump didn't work with Russians to fix the election. It was all just lies. And I think a lot of the media knew it was lies. When you perpetrate that scale of lie for so long, but with such obvious, zealous enthusiasm to bring him down. And I think that was what struck me,

was whatever you think of Trump, and I've gone back a long way with Donald Trump, and I can see the good, bad, and ugly in him, and he's got all three. Although I think he's become a changed man since the shooting and since the election. And we can maybe come to that. But it's very interesting to watch as someone who's known him a long time.

But I think that if you read Trump's book, The Art of the Deal, his whole thing is if you punch me, I'm going to punch you 10 times back. So for the first two, three years of his presidency, everyone just punched him from legacy media, morning, noon and night, because he got 10 punches back. It was all great copy for newspapers. It was great juice for the cable news. It was all great sport.

But how did it serve the American people? It didn't. And in the end, Trump says he won 2020. I don't think he did. I think that Biden won by default because of the pandemic and the fallout from that. And it was very close anyway, and it could have gone another way. But ultimately, I think Trump Biden won by default because of the pandemic and the fallout from that, and it was very close anyway, and it could have gone the other way, but ultimately I think Trump lost it.

But the scale of his win this time shows that people had a lot of buyer's remorse about Biden, a lot of probably seller's remorse about Trump, that actually despite all his rhetorical issues, and let's put that politely, that despite that, he, as a blunt instrument, he gets stuff done, he can be very effective. And I, you know, I've often had arguments with people about the way he conducts foreign policy with America, the way he goes and talks to Putin and Kim Jong-un

and Xi. I like this. I think it disarms them. They're not quite sure what to make of Trump. I suspect they're far more fearful of Trump as a consequence of their personal relationships and his known unpredictability than they are about the far more conventional, you're all bad guys, we're going to treat you like bad guys, and that's it. So I think that Trump has them oddly wrapped around his rather cunning finger. And I think it could be quite effective in the way he conducts his foreign policy. But I also think that when it comes to things like his natural instinct for the wall, immigration, cost of living, all the basic stuff, the woke stuff, you know, him saying, I'll just ban all trans-Assyrians from women's sport. Great, great.

And I think a lot of Americans went, yes, yes. It shouldn't even be ambiguous. And obviously, if we're letting 10 million illegal immigrants cross the border in four years, that can't be good for America. How can that be? We need good immigration. Of course we do. We can't sustain this. And we've got the same problem in this country. You raise it. Nearly a million people came in last year in this country. Net migration. Completely unsustainable for a little island of 67 million people. And if you raise concerns about it, you're a racist. And that's why people like Nigel Farage are getting more and more popular

because people have begun to think, well, they're not racist, are they? I mean, I don't think he is. I think he's someone who's banged this drum about the danger of uncontrolled migration for a long time. And a lot of leaders around the world now are realising that people like him and Trump were right to bang that drum. And it doesn't make you racist to be concerned about it. So I think all these things are kind of flying around.

And in the middle of it, I've been sitting there going, who am I now, right? What does this make me, right? Politically, where do I sit in all this? And it's an interesting question of self-analysis. I don't really know the clear answer, other than it's easier for me to go back to being a journalist and not to really try and work out where I sit, because the pendulum has been wildly moving around. People that used to

be considered on the left, Bill Maher, are they now? Is Bill Maher left wing? He might still want to be called that, and I love Bill. But actually, I would say he's certainly centrist at best. Arguably, a lot of the stuff now you could almost argue on the pendulum, he might be slightly centre right. That's how far the woke left have taken things. They've driven people like me and Bill who are conventional liberals to think, well, we have nothing in common with you people. All right, guys, if you're feeling stressed about giving your family a memorable holiday, you are not alone. Prices remain higher than ever, and a lot of Americans are maxing out their credit cards. Now is the perfect time to take control of your finances and pay off that

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and you're definitely reading the tea leads correctly. Who is the worst person that you've been around? I mean, you've I mean, just for people that are watching this. I mean, you partied back in the. She's inherently awful. I mean, she's put a picture out today of a faked AI picture of, I think, the Pope groping her or something. That's classic Madonna. It's just the worst kind of pathetic attention-seeking, guaranteed to enrage Catholics like me, you. It's like, why would you do that? It's so pathetic, so puerile, so attention-seeking, and that's been her whole raise on debt.

She used to be a great pop star back in her her 20s but now she's just a total embarrassment but i don't really think she's like i don't call her by the definition of what you're after is that a dangerous bad person no it's just a it's an attention-seeking increasing irrelevance you know bad bad people are people bad actors in the world are people who genuinely have a malevolent worldview that they have the ability to execute. You know, when you think back to what ISIS were doing, for example, for the first 20 years of this century, that's inherently evil what they were doing. And you can call out the leaders of ISIS and say you are inhuman, subhuman, evil people who are trying to get this caliphate which just has no tolerance of anything

i mean the western like the people that have power in the west we come to that so obviously we have so you have the obvious bad actors on the world stage in terms of people um who are running countries my biggest problem is not that they're bad is that they're incompetent which can be as bad but i want to hear elon musk talk about this a lot he's so brilliantly competent he operates at such a high level of competence that he finds incompetent people incredibly irritating and i know exactly what he means i think if you look around leadership around the world a lot of incompetent people i don't necessarily think they're bad i mean angela merkel's a good example right i wouldn't say she was a bad person she's not unintelligent she just

turned out to be incredibly incompetent and caused a lot of mayhem for her country, despite being lauded in real time. Jacinda Ardern, remember the Prime Minister of New Zealand, was lauded as the COVID heroine because of all her extreme lockdown views and so on and so on. But history has not been kind to her either. So I think a lot of people, it comes down to basic competence.

One of the problems of Boris Johnson here in this country was he's just a general shambolic character. The level of competence seemed very low. Trump first time around seemed chaotic and therefore stroked potentially a problem for competence. This time he's surrounding himself with incredibly high performing competent people like Elon. That's what makes it really interesting to me.

And that's why I think his next term could be genuinely transformative. And people might say Trump's a bad guy. I don't think he is a bad guy. I think he's somebody who had the wrong people around him first time around and was being beaten up so mercilessly by the media that his only response was to go after them with equal venom. This time I see he's calmer, he's better organized, he's chosen his cabinet in record time, he's chosen people who are disruptive but they're smart

and they're just going to operate on a different way to establishment people would do. But he's got Elon Musk sitting there helping him all the way with all this stuff. It's a lethal combination. Trump's instincts and Elon's ability and instincts to operate at a very elite level. So do you think I'm just going to push back on the Elon Musk thing? Am I even pushing back? I just find myself puzzled about it. I wonder if we're attributing too much superheroism to Elon Musk because he did this amazing thing having freed the bird.

I think he actually might be a superhero. Because see, I think Vivek Ramaswamy is a superhero. Well, I like him too. Yeah, but Elon Musk, I'm just, I sort of. But look at his achievements. What do I know about Elon Musk really? Let me help you. Let me help you answer that question.

What you know is almost every business he starts, everyone condemns it to immediate failure. Everyone thinks it's destined to fail. It cannot be achieved. It's always done on a massive, grandiose scale with a massive massive grandiose plan and he's delivered i mean look at spacex spacex is probably the most coveted company in the world right now by every other successful business person if you ask them they all think spacex is

the company in the world and he built that and people said it's never going to work this is going to you throw good money after bad it's never going to work look at what spacex does around the world now. Look at the satellite systems, never mind anything else, are just on a different level to anything we've seen. You know, he's even, I saw the other day, planning to help with the countryside issue in the UK. If you live in the countryside, you don't get a phone signal.

He said, I'll sort that for you, right? He just thinks, I'll fix Britain and his phone signal. That's how he thinks. I sat with him in France this summer for a couple of hours, and he was talking about Neuralink and that does and spacex and what it does and tesla and what the again tesla was rubbish to start with everyone said this is never going to work now it's the most successful green energy car company in the world and obviously cars will go that way he's just ahead of everybody and he understands you can't do it all at once and all these other things. But again, an amazingly transformative, huge, big picture business that

he's built. Then you look at X and what he's done there, where the most amazing stat the other day has gone from 67% Democrat, 32% Republican on X to now it's pretty well 50-50. That's Elon Musk. He's redressed the balance. He's made it easier for conservatives not to be deplatformed and removed just because of their political allegiance. Again, so he's democratized, if you like, this very undemocratic but massively popular, powerful social media tool. So I look at all the things he's been doing and I think, actually, what's the common thread here? All of it is a force for good. All of it ultimately is designed to save us from ourselves. It is colonizing Mars, humanoid robots,

all these other things he's doing. But look at the thing, the space rocket when it landed in the cradle, right? Just the sheer mind blowing scale of ambition that Musk has. And he believes we'll get to Mars in his lifetime and we'll start colonizing. And he thinks it's really important. So my point is, if you look at it, what is a superhero? A superhero is somebody who thinks on a massively big scale for the good of the people and often saves the people from themselves. By that criteria, I'm not saying he's a perfect human being. He can be difficult and all the rest of it. Of course he can. And he wouldn't say he's pervert himself. But by a superhero criteria, right now in the world, who is having a bigger transformative superhero world right now than Elon Musk?

Who? Give me a name. Who's doing more good for the world than him? Well, no, there's no question. That's why I want to separate. So what's the but for you? I totally agree that he is tremendously successful and is contributing things to the world that are amazing.

You could never take that away from him. And what he did for Twitter, X, whatever, free to the bird. I honestly think he saved like Western civilization. We were so close. It was really a dark period post-COVID. What I'm saying is to immediately translate that into would you want this person to be in government? Well, Elonk's views despite all of these amazing accomplishments in the past actually he was left-leaning yeah right so despite

all of this brilliance actually he kind of was going along with the thing until the thing kind of ate one of his kids and then he was like wait what's going on but so was trump to a degree you know so it was no trump was always a businessman no he was always about his money okay he was never a lefty-wokey. Okay, but Trump did sign up for, say, the assault weapons ban. He agreed with that in the 90s. Okay, but I'm saying, like, he wasn't... You know, you look at these, Joe Rogan, you look at all these people, there's a lot of

people, RFK, Tulsi Gabbard, a lot of people that you might have said were sort of leaning Democrats, really. But that's fine. What I'm just saying is that, actually, i would like to flesh out what his ideas are more because i and i and i say this by the way i'm saying this from like a religious perspective because i actually am not keen on the humanist agenda i'm not keen on neural link i'm not keen on all that stuff yeah i find it people can communicate which is what it's about i just think it's a it's a step too far yeah i, I'm not keen on that. See, I like it. It's sort of the bigger equation when we start talking about IVF and a big debate that's

waging here, by the way. I think you guys just approved it, right? The death pods. I just have a... I understand. And I'd like to hear more about that. So it's not really a judgment against him. It's just more like, okay, now that you're in government, actually, I really would like

to pierce and understand more about what you believe. And crucially, of course, he's not in government. Right. So he's slightly detached. What I do think is if I would put money on anyone to slash unnecessary bureaucracy and spending in the federal government, it would be Elon Musk. I wish he'd come here and do it here.

I'm very pleased about him in the big doing. I have one question. If we put Elon Musk in charge of the National Health Service here, what would happen? It would be great. I can absolutely guarantee he'd turn it around. The guy is a genius. So I think he is a superhero.

It doesn't come with no caveats, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone. Well, it's very interesting with Musk is what I think. You very rarely see that level of elite brainpower that mixes with a love of being a celebrity, which he clearly does, and limelight, with the super chilling self-confidence to back himself. That's what I love about him. He will bet the ranch on his own gut instincts.

To a degree, Trump's a bit like that. And they'll just barrel through all the naysayers. You go, you can't do that because it's never worked before. They're like, yeah, sure we can. And they do it. I like people like that. They're not always going to be right. But it's a bit like the old Wayne Gretzky,

the ice hockey player's great quote. You'll miss 100% of the shots you never take. These guys take shot after shot after shot. In Trump's case, literally took a shot for democracy, as he put it. And I think Musk is just an utterly fascinating character. And when I had a bit of time with him, just with a little group of three of us for an hour, he was just a really interesting guy.

But you could see he was looking at you, and sometimes you think he's gone a bit vacant. And you're talking about whatever it is, and he's thinking about colonizing Mars. Literally, his brain has moved to colonizing Mars, and he's probably just thought of something. He said an interesting thing. He said, like, you have to remember everything.

He said, if you replicate Earth, if you forget one vitamin, everyone dies out there. So you can't forget anything. Right? It's really interesting. But, you know, ultimately, he says you've got to have somewhere else to go. Otherwise, one day this won't exist. Then what do you do?

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spiritual guidance by catholic nuns when i was 11 and 12 that's incredible two years now is faith still a part of your life or would you say a bit of a departure do you go to mass i go to mass but not a lot i don't go to Mass, but I do go to Mass. And my mother is still a very staunch Catholic, raised us all as Catholics. I believe in God. I believe in Catholicism, what it stands for. Yeah, I mean, we all do in my family.

We're a big Catholic family. And, yeah, I take a lot of comfort from it, actually. And I have a lot of debates with people like Richard Dawkins and these guys, and I'm like, you you know ultimately it comes down to this for me the atheist can never explain to me what happened before nothing and because the human brain cannot answer that question because how can you there has to be an acceptance there is a higher being there has to be otherwise you'd be able to answer that question and they look at me completely like enraged but i'm like no you can't answer it because you could you'd have to be a superior being to a human being to be able to comprehend that kind of question so because we can't

comprehend it there has to be something bigger absolutely and i just think there's some on they love logic and i'm like well okay but religion actually carries with it a lot of other things other than just pure logic. But just on the logic alone, that's why I'm right and you're wrong, I think. He drives them nuts. I make the exact same argument. I'm like, God is like the most logical thing in the world because you can't explain to me this, so obviously there has to be someone.

Yeah, and then I think it comes down to other things, which is what do you want out of religion and out of God? I find it comforting to pray. I don't do it all the time. I don't pray every night. But there are times, difficult times in your life when you just want to say a prayer. And I've had prayers answered.

And I've seen it happen. It might be a complete coincidence. Of course it might be. But the power of having a faith that somebody out there has that ability to help you is pretty strong. And I think the people that have that really feel it. And if other people don't feel it and don't like it and don't want it, okay. But why do you obsess, as they all seem to do, about what we believe?

Have your own non-belief and believe in that, you're fine. But shut up about it. Why does it bother you? Nothing to do with you whether I believe in God or not. If you don't, fine. If you think at the end of your life that's it you're worm food and nothing happens fine I will die a lot happier than you because I think there's a lot of good stuff waiting for me up there and that makes me feel good you must as you get nearer and nearer death feel absolutely bloody terrible

because you're thinking that's it forever and you can't even say what forever is because you haven't got any faith. I don't think anybody dies an atheist. I think in those final moments they're like, okay, you know what? I bet there's a lot of conversion at the last minute. Exactly. Just in case I'm wrong. Okay, so I want to ask you this question. You, like me, have tons of kids, obviously,

which means that we have an investment in what's going on, a real investment in what's going on. I think it's important to have children because of this, by the way, because then the political discussions are more weighted and you're saying things that are going to impact your children's future. What would you say, and by the way, I want to say you're also a rare person that you've been able to metamorphosize, which is very rare, changing times, changing social economy. Now we're online online now you're on youtube what would you say is your biggest concern um biggest fear like explicitly what is your biggest fear about the direction of

the world right now when you think about just as a parent i mean it's interesting what you said about my my own evolution a lot of that's driven by my kids so when you have kids you see how they operate you see how they read what they consume what they read, what they consume, what they watch. I'd switch to YouTube because I could see none of them watch TV and none of them buy newspapers. So I thought, whoa, hang on, and they're all in their 20s and none of them are doing the stuff that I did. What are they doing? Oh, they're all watching this thing called YouTube.

Okay, how about I become a YouTuber? Literally as simple as that. They were like, Dad, none of our friends watch this TV stuff. It's all through YouTube. You realise that. Get onto YouTube, Dad. none of our friends watch this TV stuff, right? It's all through YouTube. You realise that? Get onto YouTube, Dad. And now they all watch it. So they've kept you in the game.

I think kids not only keep you fresh and alive and having a purpose, but they also make you less narcissistic, a streak I've certainly had over the years, because ultimately it's about them, not you. And when you become a parent you understand that and you become much more concerned about their welfare and what's happening to them than you do for yourself it's a good thing for people to become parents for that reason if nothing else it's the ego's solution i can tell you um but secondly in terms of what i

care about for them i think it's you lot of things I always try and remind them because all of their friends have anxiety issues and things, it's interesting, it's a generational thing, they're getting bombarded I mean that Jonathan Haidt book about from 2010 how smartphones the moment they became smart started bombarding kids with all this negative dopamine stuff all the time

I think it's a real problem and I think that young brains get scrambled by the constant negativity, I think about when I was young there were wars going on but you never saw any of the graphic stuff you had no way of seeing it it wouldn't be shown on the relatively sanitized news broadcasts there was no internet there were no phones nothing else you couldn't the newspapers wouldn't run the really gory stuff now if you go on x in the middle of and tap in ukraine or gaza whatever the most horrific stuff comes up all day long if you're a young 17 18 year old exposed to that it must have a very corrosive effect on you and it must make you start to catastrophize because you think this

is what everything in the world is is is like now the reality is the opposite interestingly in recorded history this is by far the best time to ever be alive. There are fewer wars at the moment raging than in recorded history in the time period. There's less child poverty. Water is cleaner and killing less people. There are less insects killing millions of people. A lot of the insects that kill people have been eradicated. The death counts on those.

Little things which could have huge effects in continents like Africa. People are living longer. They're living healthier. They are better educated and so on. And you go through every metric of life. And actually, I could present a compelling argument to these kids. Why are you so anxious? Compared to every generation that's gone before you,

you've never had it so good. And yet saying that is self-defeating because they do feel bad and they do feel anxious. And a lot of it is around phones. I've got no doubt. And we have to, as a responsible generation now of people, we have to understand that, empathise with them and help them get out of it.

And also, I think we have to attack head on the other aspects of the woke mind virus which is so destructive the participation prize culture where little johnny comes last in a race at school and gets given a prize how does that prepare little johnny for the real world because if you come last at work let me tell you you get fired if you do it often enough you don't get a prize your prize is you get given a cap home if you're lucky and that's it um celebrating failure over success being ashamed of being successful and beating your chest because somehow that's something to be frowned upon whereas if you lose somehow you're sort of vaingloriously heroic well when did that start you know people say i just passed my driving test at the eighth attempt.

I'm so proud of myself. Really? Why aren't you ashamed of yourself? I keep that bloody quiet if I were you. What are you boasting about? Eight times? How dumb are you? And by the way, why are you driving?

I don't want you out on the road, right? And yet they're proud of themselves. And they share it. And I see all the comments, so proud of you, babes, fantastic fantastic babes i'm not saying it's just necessarily a woman it could be anybody um but it's just like this constant celebration of failure or weakness mediocrity mediocrity and also this thing about you know you mustn't push people to try and achieve their best because it's bad for their mental health no what's bad for their mental health is not being able to deal with the real world so push people to be physically and mentally strong as they can

to deal with the reality. My favorite speech in movies is Rocky Balboa to his son, the spoiled brat's son in the sixth movie, when he finally has it out with him in the street, and he says, life is not about how hard you can hit. Life's about how hard you can get hit, get back up, and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done. We've lost that as a society. Now it's like you throw yourself on the ground, almost

punch yourself in the face, lie there wallowing in your own misery, and everyone fawns all over you and celebrates your weakness. How does that help any part of that equation? It doesn't. So we've become a society. It's changing. I think the Trump win again is a big moment in the sand for this. To say no, actually, and particularly for young men, you can be proud of being a young man. You don't have to hate yourself just because every corporate,

woke marketing campaign told you that you're all hateful losers until you can prove you're not all a bunch of Harvey Weinsteins running around, right? Now men are being told it's okay to be a guy and you can be proud. And by the way, and if you are, here are the things that you should do to be a good man in life. But you can beat your chest a bit and you can celebrate achievement. You can want to win. You can celebrate winning and you can hate losing. Actually, it's fine to hate losing. There's nothing good about losing. Who wants to lose? Let's celebrate it. So I do think there's all these things where I feel there's a correction going.

I feel like the woke worm has turned quite rapidly since Trump's win. In a way, it became the catalyst because everything Kamala Harris stood for was all this crap. Everything Biden stood for was all this crap. And that ad he did, you know, karma is for they, them, Trump's for you. Devastating. Devastating. Because in one simple ad, it told the story.

What does they, them mean? There's only one person sitting there. How can one person be they, them? Sam Smith can't remember if he's Sam, him, her, or they, them. It must be incredibly confusing when he gets up in the morning. But why do we have to pander to this bullshit? So I thought I was liberal, right? But all this stuff just sounds completely insane to me.

I think we're all just rational. Because I find myself too, I'm like, I don't know if I'm conservative because then I see conservatives doing the woke stuff on anti-Semitism. And I'm like, you know what? Then I find people on the left are now following me. And I go, I think what's happening is actually like nature is correcting and rather than us seeing ourselves as you're on the left, you're on the right. It's like, are you sane?

Are you like a sane person in the middle? Yes. I say, look, take you. Like me, I have a divisive reputation. But I say, have you ever actually watched Candace, right? I mean, I would say to people when I tweet this just watch this do you get the feeling you're in front of a screaming lunatic right or not

and of course you're not right so I'm not saying you're perfect and you wouldn't say I am but I don't see the characterisation of you that I read about you have your moments I have mine I had a hilarious conversation with Trump the other day where he said you know you're a good guy you have your bad moments and I and i had a hilarious conversation with trump the other day when he said you know pierce you're a good guy he said you have your bad moments and i went well

don't we all mr president and we were laughing um and he accepted he said true true true but it's um everybody obviously has that um but it's we live in a weird place now where your your bad moments get massively amplified and all the other stuff which would counter that in a normal conversation where you're down the pub with someone you say something stupid but then you'd say a lot of good stuff and then actually it's a good blow right you don't see any of that all you see is the tribe seize on the moment and flam it out and say this is that person look how awful they are and it gets amplified around the world before anyone can stop it and before you know it you're the most reviled human being on earth you're like how did that happen only for a minute

cancel culture is officially over i think it is yeah it's been canceled which is amazing which leads me to this last question for you peers what is next for you i think you're quite amazing you found this really sweet spot people look to you now they respect you for hosting the debate you know and that puts you you're the debate, you know, and that puts you, you're in a unique position right now. Yeah. What's next? I feel excited about the potential for Uncensored, actually. I think I hit on a very good title for my show. I want to expand it. I've looked at other places in the digital space where they're getting bigger and bigger. Obviously, you're one of them. You've got to find your own thing. What is your own thing?

My thing is i'm not an ideologue coming at it left or right and just pumping my view about stuff and people coming on and talking to me about that my view is i i am the ringmaster now so i think really important debates about all the most important stuff in the world i also love doing the one-on-ones with everyone from whether it's kanye to trump to zelens, I don't mind who it is. I like sitting down with people doing the longer form one-on-ones too. And that combination all playing to what I think at my core is what I am and what I'm now very proud to celebrate more, which is being a journalist. Being a journalist who challenges everybody,

not worrying about being boxed into left or right or any kind of position, but actually just holding everybody to account and trying to get that most precious of things to come out, which is the truth. Not my truth or their truth or Meghan Markle's version of the truth, but the truth. And once you have the truth, everyone can have an opinion. When you muck around with the truth

and you lie about facts which are incontrovertible, that act doesn't fly. So I see myself now as the great truth finder in the world on the YouTube and the internet, which is no bad thing. I love it. Well, you guys, there we have it. Piers Morgan, we got some opinions. Actually, solid. I actually totally loved everything that he said here. So that is the real Piers Morgan Uncensored. Thanks for joining us.