Chainsaw History - Asa Carter, The Violent Racist Who Wrote a Book Endorsed by Oprah

Episode Date: August 24, 2022

Did you know that the author of The Education of Little Tree and The Outlaw Josey Wales was actually Asa Carter—a white nationalist who sent members of the KKK to attack Nat King Cole on stage? He was a man so racist that George Wallace cut him loose, so Carter changed his name, lied about his past, and became a best-selling author before his own son punched him to death. Jamie and Bambi go back to segregation-era Alabama to talk about a uniquely terrible person.Consider a donation to the Cherokee Nation. And if you are struggling, please reach out to someone you trust or dial 988 to reach the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline.

I blame the spooky zoom lady hmm no well I mean it's probably my fault my phone has not worked real well or correctly since I dropped it in the toilet over Christmas that'll cause some problems yeah so now things just don't everything works and it doesn't seem like there's anything wrong but at the same time it just doesn't work as well as it used to it's very odd although kudos for my not waterproof phone still working yeah pretty much at all in the old days dropping the toilet was at the instant death sentence yeah that was now they waterproof shit instead and take your phone for your bathtub selfies nice well

everyone thank Christ welcome to chainsaw history this is the show where my sister and I throw our middle fingers at beloved figures in history and you can find us and support what we do by visiting chainsawhistory.com I'm your host Jamie Chambers and this is my sister Bambi and we are a comedy history podcast I'm not a historian just a guy with a potty mouth and a library card I'm here for the ride at least today I am and I have the world's most annoying dog stop it he is just making noise because he can in this big echoey room where the mics will 100% pick it all up so yeah you could hear a catholic every

once in a while if you hear weird noises or little a cartoon spring noise that's because the dog is just fucking around in the background or jumping into my lap all right so to let's jump into it now today's subject was a footnote in a previous episode he was a guy we mentioned briefly and then completely forgot about or at least you might have I ended up he ended up becoming a brain worm that just burrowed and I couldn't let it go until I learned more about him and then I did all that research so I kind of had to make an episode about it to justify reading way too much I feel that actually because I

have I too have that and you get scripts now yeah I'm looking forward to it and that is a hint of future stuff for people who do back at some patreon now our subject today was an accomplished author who conquered more than one style and back in the 80s when we were little kids in grade school his most famous book was really kind of pushed into classrooms because it was a very like especially for the 80s in this era of Reagan patriotism it was just very kind of American story that made you feel good and even kind of soften like even though it acknowledged problems between white people and Native

Americans it still kind of made it go down with a spoonful of sugar because it's still this very sweet story very dances with wolves like in that case yeah the values of different cultures well dances with wolves was a lot more directly critical of America and way more pro the Native American side were as the book we're about to talk about a little bit different and since we've been through this all before it's ridiculous to ask you but I'm so I already know you did not read the book the education of little tree no I did however sleep through the movie a couple times yeah I think I watched it who

among us it did not instantly lay their head down the moment the vcr cart came into the classroom and the teacher went out yeah I'm telling you I think there was it was and I'm remembering it now vividly because we talked about it earlier but yeah I was in summer school and they were like we're gonna make you watch this long boring ass movie and then because it's summer school I'm gonna make you take a quiz haha well if it makes you feel any better my really expensive college education my horrendously expensive college education that I'm still paying off to this day I had a 400 level World War

II history class taught by a professor who just put on videos from the history channel and then went back to his office to work on his next book he went this is a guy who was like a renowned expert on the Pacific Theater of World War II and I was really looking forward to hearing his lectures he didn't give a goddamn one nice and instead we watch history channel and then the students gave presentations so he had to take this we taught the class along with the fucking history channel before it became all ancient aliens and stuff back when it taught history cuz I miss the history channel when it just showed random like

documentaries and we just instantly we just instantly revealed that we're in our 40s history channel has not been there in a really long time that's fine so in 1976 the education of Little Tree was published as a nonfiction memoir by Forrest Carter who was previously known for westerns such as the outlaw Josie Wales a movie our dad liked quite a bit that was cuz yeah like I said the he wrote the book that was made into the movie the outlaw Josie Wales directed by and starring Clint Eastwood it's the autobiography of a man looking back in his early life when his parents died in the late 1920s and he

went to live with his Cherokee grandparents in the Appalachian Mountains so the young boy learns to love and appreciate his grandparents and the and the native ways of life and appreciation of nature and so he's getting all this like this that's the education of Little Tree the other side of the education of Little Tree is where he is forced into a residential school which for for listeners who don't know yeah those are places where like the United States and Canada liked to it was an attempt at ethnic cleansing to kind of culturally whitewash Native Americans by taking their children and

raising them in white society you know like most of the time they would even force the children to take different names we just call it public school but at least they're not murdered there yeah it's everybody whereas this case it was specifically Native American children and it was there that was the end goal and the other nightmare is that every once in a while we archaeologists discover mass graves no they they were horrific yeah look into that talk about another rabbit hole you can go down to if you want to give yourself nightmares the good news is Little Tree however was rescued by an uncle who snatched him

out of that place and brought him back to his grandparents where he stayed with them a few more years until you know they were already old and they passed away but the lessons that they had taught him see him through adulthood so it's a very American very heartwarming tale and actually is a bit critical of the American government white culture and Christianity there's a whole kind of bit about how they attended church but has serious problem with what people did in the name of Jesus Christ you know I have a problem that that's completely fair because I too have a problem with with a lot with a whole lot of names

of Jesus Christ who by the way was a cool dude he was very chill and would not have approved of any of these atrocities and more people should actually just listen to the stuff he said I mean even though his his life even if you don't but dudes was a bunch of dicks even if you don't believe if you specifically go by what Jesus said in the New Testament it's all yeah it's all fine so the educational Little Tree went on to much success even after the death of its author coming in waves and even hit number one in the nonfiction section of the New York Times book review in 91 thanks to the power of Oprah Winfrey or

next president the United States who knows oh my god I would actually back that isn't that scared that was talked about a while back so but she shot it down thankfully but like no I said I wanted to be super rich and famous and still incredibly powerful and probably more powerful this way she doesn't know her power well I know if she and then even but even if Oprah Winfrey can take a step back and be like god no I don't need to be president then at least good for you for one free you still have something on Donald Trump all claps indeed yo I mean I saw the power of Oprah when I was in college and worked at

the mall bookstore every time Oprah mentioned a book or had it on her book club instantly it was just gone we had a little stand where we just put all of the Oprah recommended shit and it would just all the wine moms would pour in and grab it every week and you know so absolutely so you know when I was 16 this book hit the New York Times number one just because of Oprah's recommendation you probably didn't know about any of the stuff other than this oh we're gonna go into it let's do it let's do it so I was talking about how he actually died just a few years after the education of little tree was published

and the death of forest Carter has a few things in common with the passing of our own dad he died of his first and only heart attack and he had two funerals which for anyone who has not had to attend their parents funeral twice not highly recommended don't do that not my not my favorite time ever that's a horrible story we will save for another day but but here's the story of forest Carter's two funerals he passed away in 1979 he was only in his early 50s so he died young only a few years after his most successful and beloved work he was well liked in Abilene Texas where he lived at the time and the whole town

mourned his unexpected passing his body was returned to his original home in Alabama and the family welcomed a crowd of admirers and friends from the publishing world in New York and entertainment figures from Southern California who joined his wife and children at a graveside service then a few hours later the family returned to the cemetery for a second smaller and entirely private service that matched the name on the headstone that eventually was placed at his grave that puzzled some people because the friends back at Texas the fans of his books were all deeply confused because the name on the

grave was one they'd never heard before Asa Earl Carter so here's the twist you're familiar with at least one thing Carter wrote back in 1962 he wrote the inaugural address for the incoming governor of Alabama and you might remember these lines delivered to a roaring applause today I have stood where once Jefferson Davis stood and took an oath to our people it is very appropriate that from this cradle of the Confederacy this very heart of the great Anglo-Saxon Southland that today we sound the drum for freedom has had our generation of full of hours and full of

us done time and again down through history let us rise to the call of freedom loving blood that is in us and send our answer to the tyranny that clenched its chains upon the South in the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny and I say segregation now segregation tomorrow and segregation forever Chris that was written by the same guy who wrote the education of little tree you see there was no Forrest Carter there was no little tree in fact Asa

Carter was just as white as you and me and his Cherokee heritage was complete horseshit he was in fact a Ku Klux Klan organizer and rabid defender of segregation he was a right-wing radio personality decades before Rush Limbaugh and he was a politician so racist that George Wallace disassociated himself with him well you know he apparently I mean this guy has apparently disassociated with himself oh yeah and there's that more than once so when his early ventures failed he moved to Texas and reinvented himself as a kindly cowboy writer of Native American ancestry forest little tree Carter so a look

at his life is a testament to just how much bullshit people are likely to swallow if they tell a good story and we're about to get into it but first let's acknowledge our sources now I did a lot of personal research on this so I like pulled up dozens of newspaper articles I actually was using still using those ancestry comm tools to look up records on people I looked up military service records book reviews I was like dig I did a lot of more personal research rather than just reading books this time but I did watch a good documentary called the Reconstruction of Asa Carter which is

publicly available on YouTube so you can just search for that title and you pop right up I also got more information on Carter's early life in the book titled but for Birmingham the local and national movements in the civil rights struggle by Glen T. S. Q. and that's a very academic book like getting into the weeds like you have to be more of a history nerd to truly appreciate that one because it's heavily sourced less interesting writing but more like this is the shit that happened these are the people involved I mean I still found it fascinating but it's definitely not for the everyday casual reader so I'll put

these and other sources in the show notes that you can find on chainsawhistory.com so you ready to come back to mid 20th century Alabama no where our people are from. Not particularly but here we are. You're gonna hate me so much. Every time I think I get out of Alabama I just get dragged right back in. Every time I think I'm out of they pull me back in. I'm a terrible brother. All right Asa Earl Carter entered the world on September 4th 1925 in Oxford Alabama which is near Aniston kind of central ish northeast ish Alabama and he was the second of four children which instantly contradicts his story about being an only child and

also where he claimed to also be an orphan only child both his parents outlived him or I know I think his father died just a couple years before him his mother outlived him like 20 years and died she lived nearly as long as Betty White. Betty White who lived almost be a hundred RIP. I just watched completely off topic but on the herd like team that she worked with posted the video she'd pre-recorded for her 100th birthday to thank everyone and raise money for her animal charities. I was just like oh and then all those magazines that came out that had already been printed celebrating her hundredth

birthday it's like oh thanks guys. Yeah no I feel like 2021 had to get one last little knife twist in before we're already rushing into celebrity death in 2022. You know well let me tell you something it's like remember in 2016 when like celebrity deaths were like really sad and they meant a lot to us such good times. Now we're like making meatloaf memes two hours after the guy died that's just where we are it's how we deal with our pain. Alright so back to Asa Carter we don't know a lot about his early life but we can definitely say he did not move to the Tennessee mountains to learn the ways of the Cherokee. He actually

grew up on a dairy farm probably milking cows and doing other menial labor shoveling manure you know cow farm stuff and he graduated from Calhoun County High School in 1943. According to Dan Carter no relation of the New York Times quote the senior class prophet predicted he would return to Calhoun County as a famous movie star. Handsome, energetic, ambitious, always the actor. His classmates had known that Asa Carter would do whatever he had to escape this sleepy little town of Oxford. Well who knew that? Not an actor but a writer eventually. And you know before that radio personality so you know they were at least warm. After

school he immediately entered the United States Navy being as how there was a whole war where two happened. I found his name on the Navy muster rolls and saw that he served in the Pacific and was involved in the battle of late gulf which was like the largest naval battle in the whole war and the invasion of Okinawa but otherwise his military career seems unremarkable. No no like he just served out his term wasn't you know like many others he just served Millions of other people did the same thing. He survived World War II. Yeah after the war he reunited with his high school sweetheart. I found the marriage

license online for Asa Carter to India Walker on February 22nd 1947 so he was 21 years old and listed his occupation as the bottling business and both claimed to be residents of Tallahassee, Florida. As far as I know they didn't actually move to Florida till later so I don't know what that was about. I will say this about it there are slightly less rumors about him cheating on his wife than George Wallace or the other kind of figures from this point in history so I guess that's something. They didn't remain married for his entire life even though they did have a period of separation at least one. I did get the

idea that there was certain difficulties in their marriage that weren't necessarily related to cheating. Well you know everyone has difficulties in their marriage and sometimes it doesn't have anything related to cheating and apparently this guy's an asshole. But he didn't kill her so. No she outlived him by quite a lot. She didn't murder him like George Wallace did at Lerlene, Florida Lerlene. That was one of the biggest surprises I've ever gotten when I was researching it was just that horror show. So when they were newlyweds Asa used the GI Bill to study journalism for a year at the University of Colorado. Boning up

on those writing skills that would serve him well for the rest of his life. And then at Denver he got a job as a radio announcer and he found he really enjoyed being behind a microphone. Hello listeners. And he enjoyed having an audience to listen to his ideas. He bounced around. That's my job. He bounced around from several radio jobs before returning to Birmingham in 1953 and landing a job at AM 850 WILD. It was wild y'all. And it was during this time he established his first new identity Ace Carter. A guy who was too racist for 1950s Alabama. Oh my god Ace Carter would be a great name for a porn star. Well if you saw pictures of this guy

how do you feel about that? Well no I don't feel good about any of it. I'm just saying from a girl whose name is Bambi I can I can spot it. Now the comparisons between Ace Carter and George Wallace are natural especially since the two worked together for a little while. But my study of both men gives me the impression that George Wallace as we talked about this in his episode I don't think he ever really held racial hatred like deep in his heart. He just used it for political advantage. It was an expedient and whatever racism he did had he was happy to hide it in order to like win votes and just go the way the wind was

blowing. Is that less gross? I don't know. That's the question to ask yourself at the end of this story because Carter seems like a true believer. Like Wallace he did the thing like you know his big announcement that he was done being a racist was when he crowned that that young black woman a beauty queen. He kissed her on the cheek and like put his arm around her and made it clear he was not at all revolted by this beautiful you know we young woman see I can't be racist. And that's not how anything works. No. So listen to the highlights of Asa Carter's early career and see if you agree. So here he is racist personality

on radio WILD the first one on the air in 1953 and in less than a year he was sponsored by a group called ASRA and his program was carried by at least 20 radio stations all over Alabama. And if you Google ASRA today you'll likely find the American Society of Regional Anesthesia but back in the day it was something else the American States Rights Association and I can see you twitch. I know well anytime anyone says the word state rights there's nothing good that comes after that. Always ask the question states rights to do what exactly and it's usually horrible. Yeah like you know they want to have the

state right to lower the age of consent or suppress certain groups of people from you know voting. Yeah no none of it's good it's it's all. Regressive taxes you know just shitty stuff. It starts bad and goes downhill. So and as you might have guessed ASRA was an anti-integration organization founded in the 1950s to combat groups in Birmingham attempting to weaken segregation laws. So some 600 people attended their very first meeting and they claimed to have over 5,000 members on their mailing list. They not only sponsored the Ace Carter show they hired him to handle ASRA's public relations. So in 1955 the group published

a lovely little book titled The Race Problem from the standpoint of one who is concerned about the evils of miscegenation authored by racist and dumb biologist W.C. George. Now for any of you listeners out there who haven't heard the word miscegenation is a fancy word for a mixed race relationship. And sometimes you learn something new every day and sometimes that something sucks. Yeah my vocabulary has been destroyed by reading about horrible people but I don't know. I want to instantly forget this word. Good people shouldn't know that word unless they've gone down the same corners that others have or have sadly

had racism affect them. So anywho, ASRA and Ace Carter didn't limit their hate only to African Americans. Both were also intensely and vocally anti-Semitic and were mixed it all together with the ongoing Red Scare. Quoting from Dan Carter again this time from a different book called Rewriting the South quote Carter warned his listeners that the Birmingham chapter of the National Conference of Christians and Jews was a tool of the Communist Party manipulated by Jews who adduped ignorant Christians into supporting their secret plan to dilute the racial purity of the South. I have no words for how much I hated that.

I'm shocked by how much I hate it and I expected to. Quoting again from the same book they quote believe that the American Christian civilization was on the ropes because of the machinations of the Christ killer Jews. New York Jews put up the funds for the Russian Revolution and in the year since 1918 they had joined hands with the Communists and refined their plans to undermine white Christian civilization. Their tools were many but their main weapon was the promotion of integration. See you might remember that back in the very early 20th century there was a lovely fake document published in Russia called the

Protocols of the Elders of Zion. I do I know this horrifically fucking you know and I'm really surprised about how often it comes up. Well it is the it is the great granddaddy of all modern conspiracy theories plus fucking just racism. So to to give the listeners just a quick idea of this and how it's spilled into what we're talking about now it's this idea that that Jewish bankers have used their money accumulated from all over the world and basically have a secret society what we you know now be the billionaire. Secret Jewish billionaires controlling the world and manipulating governments and

doing everything in order to create the rise of of communism and to wipe out you know all world governments and destroy capitalism. So every time you hear like George Soros is funding Black Lives Matter that's literally a direct descendant of this horrible conspiracy theory. But all the billionaires are fucking white dudes with the exception of oil barons. Yeah but you know and here's the thing. Is there a truth that there are a lot of rich Jewish bankers? Yes but there is a historical reason for this because in medieval Europe Christians weren't allowed to charge interest when they loaned people money. It was a

literally considered a sin so the Jewish communities who did not have that particular role in their religion did so they by de facto became the banking services but then also were hated for doing the thing that was needed when people loaned people money and provide credit for businesses and shit. Like so they made money off of this this thing this need that they filled but then you know got nothing but racism and hatred and a holocaust. So getting back to this so right now there's the current version of this in our story is the idea that these that these secret cabal of rich Jewish people were trying to take

down Christian civilization and one of the ways you're gonna do it is by by letting white and black society mix and and creating just a mongrel race you know the pure superiority of the Aryans wiped out forever by mixing with Africans. So it's just gross and awful. It mixes multiple levels of racism all together and you know and just that usual you know capitalist you know fear of anything related to socialism or communism. And hey look over there tactics. Don't look at the bullshit we're up to. However even for 1950s Alabama this was a lot. See the holocaust was a very recent memory in the 1950s and a

lot of Alabamians were kind of uncomfortable with all this anti-Semitism even if they were totally fine with the rants against communism and people of color. They were like wait a second. These people were literally almost wiped off. Six million people were killed just in the decade before. So that's like that was a bridge too far for most for even like mainstream segregationists who weren't like hateful but they were just like the status quo is just fine because I'm doing fine and I don't have to pay much attention to the people living on the crappy side of town. Consequently ACE went to war on public

radio with an organization called the National Conference for Christians and Jews. And this was a multi-faith organization that sprung up after World War II that was the idea was to promote peace and tolerance and say you know it's fine for Catholics Protestants and Jews to all get along and not only that and to try to overcome harmful stereotypes about all of the above. So this is even though so on one hand it's a very nice thing like hey let's it's unity we don't have to hate each other for our religious differences so that's a good thing even though once again this is that's all it is. This has no racial

component it does not open itself to other religions beyond the three we just mentioned and but even still fuck these guys says Aisa Carter that's we cannot have this mixing with the Jews. So the NCCJ promoted an unofficial event that was celebrated for decades and has kind of fallen out in our lifetime it was called known as National Brotherhood Week and even though it was only about religious tolerance if you were a Catholic Protestant or Jew that was too much for him. This was all part of the commie plot to destroy America. You can't have people getting along with other people with the Jews and it's

always in quotes with the capital you know. So the president of the Alabama chapter of the NCCJ a dude named Paul Head led community pushback that got the Ace Carter show canceled in 1955. So after about two and a half years on the air this faith interfaith group was able to get him cancelled because like I said mainstream Alabama was like this is a little much and so but however if you're Ace Carter if you're already paranoid about a Jewish conspiracy controlling the world a pro-Jewish organization getting you fired doesn't help your worldview. You know some people could just call it cause and effect but

you know. Taking a simple step back and having common sense makes this all make sense but to him this is just proof that the Jews were out to get him. Oh god it's just culture wars. So he only got worse after he lost his wider audience because now he's less mainstream so he can really. Now he's just focused in on QAnon. Yeah he can speak to a very specific crowd it's exactly the kind of people who would jump on board with QAnon all these decades later. Now it or where was I yeah he only got worse and it made mainstream segregationists such as the Alabama Citizens Council to push him aside. Now every southern state at

the time had one of these state citizens councils and in case you didn't know what those were they were pro segregation. They might as well be called the White Citizens Council. These were just these were you know influencing local government and trying to influence elections and policies and even local businesses to make them all white friendly and keep things the way these particular people wanted them. And even they were like yeah we're cool with the anti-integration stuff but we do not want this anti-Semitic asshole in our group that he's too racist for us. So in 1956 a very busy year for our boy he

founded his own called the North Alabama Citizens Council. So it was a safe space for hate against both black and Jewish Americans. Oh good. And it so it splintered the membership between the moderate and extreme racists in the area so like the kind of more mainstream people. They had their own place to hang out. Yeah we had your your your mainstream racist club and then you had this super racist club. Well you know they didn't have the internet so they couldn't just hate people anonymously online. You couldn't just go to four channels. You couldn't just go to four channels or eight channels or whatever

channel it is now and and get your porn and hate. Not even just porn but like no. No. I've never been there. Don't want to be there. I know too much about it. It makes my brain hurt. Yeah don't go. So not only so he founded the super racist club but that wasn't quite enough so he started his own chapter of the KKK. He dressed them in gray robes you know like a rebel soldier's uniform and called them the Ku Klux Klan of the Confederacy. So and the soldier of the reference wasn't just for show. The idea was this was going to be a real like paramilitary group that was gonna do some shit. Oh so they weren't just like

people hanging out in bedsheets sharing their hate. They actually wanted to be terrorists. 100%. That was the goal from the beginning. So here are a few examples even though Carter wasn't directly involved but he's literally the founder and leader so he's responsible in my opinion for all of this. In April of 1956 members of the Gray Klan rushed the stage of a Nat King Cole concert and attacked the performer during his third song of the evening. They attacked Nat? They attacked Nat King Cole. Fuck those guys. Fuck those guys so hard. Now it was not just because Cole was black but Ace Carter and his cronies believed that rock

and other kinds of popular music were part of this communist plot to encourage race mixing because once again you know rock and roll was stolen from black culture and even in it but at the same time anybody who was cutting edge would go to to see some of these black performers and their venues and it was one of the earliest places where especially young people would be mixed race because they were all just enjoying the music. Yeah and Nat King Cole was part of a big touring production wasn't just him. He was part of this huge tour going on at the time. So this is all part of the commie plot for race mixing.

As described in the Organization of American Historians magazine in history a really obnoxious title. You shouldn't have historians in history in the same title. I object to this. Quote, Cole was midway through his third song of the evening the romantic ballad Little Girl. Three of the men vaulted the footlights and one Kenneth Adams grabbed the startled singer who was hit in the face by a falling microphone and wrestled Cole over his piano stool onto the floor. End quote. Some guys just jump over the lights. People don't know what's going on. One is grabs Nat King Cole takes him down the floor so he's

beating the shit out of him. Fucking terrible. Continuing. Quote, plainclothes policemen alerted to the possibility of trouble at the concert rushed to rescue the singers only to clash with uniformed cops who thought they were a second wave of attack. So the cops are beating the shit out of each other because they don't know who they are. Because they wanted to take down hard rock and roller Nat King Cole. Well so I know that in this case the cops were all trying to protect him. Nat King Cole however. The uniformed cops didn't know that undercut of the plainclothes guys were there so they both just start beating the shit out of

each other. Back to the quote. As the curtain fell and Cole was rescued the Ted Heath Orchestra, a British band touring with Cole, stayed at its post and launched into God Save the Queen. That's hilarious but they should have yeah because this is before the Vinnie Hill music. That would have been so great. Yeah I mean if you look at that scene played in your head, Vinnie Hill music is playing. It's a real shame that nobody was doing it live like you know didn't have a movie camera there to record it. There are some pictures of the events and then some of the dudes after the arrests. Now the guy mentioned earlier Kenneth Adams the one

who actually was swinging at Nat King Cole. This guy is suspected of both burning a bus carrying freedom riders which if you remember from the George Wallace episode they were like a protest group that would ride mixed race go to different cities for protests and stuff like that. And anyway he was also suspected of the murder of a man named Willie Brewster. Yeah fuck this guy don't like him. Don't worry Nat King Cole was fine though. Well yeah I mean Nat King Cole has been dead for ages and they still dig him up every once in a while to sing with him. They'll just dig up old Nat King Cole tracks. He was great actually. Well like I

really just want to do it too. Thank you. I listened to this song Little Girl maybe I'll put maybe that's what we'll write out on at the end of the episode because why not. Okay well I mean which by the way musical artists the only one we should be able to do that is his daughter Natalie and that is it. Everyone else should just leave him alone. Let him be dead. He can't do a duet with you. It's no longer his choice you're just raving his memory. But yeah that song Little Girl that also showed off what a badass he was in the piano. He was like standing up and playing ways I never could at my best. Another horrific crime committed by

the KKK of the Confederacy was the abduction and mutilation of a man named Edward Aaron. He was a developmentally disabled black man which makes it even worse. Fucking hate it. So it was said that the original plan was to quote pick up a Negro to scare the hell out of. Unquote which was bad enough but it went much farther than fear. Quoting Glenn Esquieu. Quote they asked Aaron if he wanted to die or lose his genitals to which the African American responded neither. But then shows a masculation. Although Aaron informed his captors he did not belong to the civil

rights movement. The Klansmen told him to tell Negro leaders that the same thing would happen to them if they attempted to enroll the Negro children in white schools. The robed sex tech then forced him to strip from below the waist and lie on the dirt floor. Unquote. And it only gets worse. So these were six these were six members and then one of them a piece of shit named Bart Floyd used a razor to remove Aaron's genitals. They then poured turpentine on his wounds as an intended torture but it possibly saved his life because it slowed down the bleeding. An interview after the fact Aaron stated I don't

think they're human. Yeah me neither. These are fucking monsters. Fortunately the victim was discovered by police and taken to the hospital before he bled to death. One of the few times you can be grateful for Alabama cops at this time but they did they found this guy you know bleeding and screaming and crying and got him to the hospital and I watched an interview he gave to local news where he he asked to be filmed from behind because he was a shanty. He'd been made a eunuch by these people and that's just fucking awful and just listening to him. He's like you know he was just like a guy in his 30s just maybe a little slow

kind of on you know the forest gump end of the of things so it's fucked up. Yeah I mean that's horrific. I mean and even if he wasn't mentally challenged that's still fucked up. There's nothing where that there's no good version of that's just like you know that's the whipped cream of the of the atrocity Sunday but don't worry there's a little there's some sprinkles on top this is really gonna piss you off. Oh goody is there a cherry too? Yeah as a footnote so two of the men decided to cooperate with prosecutors and turn states evidence so they get reduced sentences so six guys two of them two of them ran out the other four

and so they get charged would they get sentenced to only five years for their guilty pleas. The other four were convicted and sentenced to 20 years apiece in state prison. Ray. Then George Wallace became governor of Alabama and he pardoned those four but left the two who cooperated with the state right where they were. Fuck George Wallace. He hate him so much. Every time we think we've heard the last shitty thing he did. No. There's always more. No there's there's a well just the awfulness there. I'm sure that even in future episodes or don't we're nowhere near Alabama he's just gonna pop back up again like a fucking

bad penny. I mean the fact that it's like we want to act like this is such ancient history and it's like my parents remember the shit. Well both of our parents were alive. This is all going on. This is yeah this was 1956. All right so yeah George Wallace sucks. Go listen to our three-part epic if you really want to find out how much. Now next year the great KK sent a mob to beat civil rights leader Fred Shuttleworth whose wife was stabbed so that's how shitty these people were. They not only went to go out to this dude they literally stabbed his wife in the hip and one of those attackers went on to

be involved in the bombing of the 16th Street Baptist Church that we talked about where those four little girls were killed. So these are literally the worst people. Those are don't like it. These are the worst of the worst like literal fucking terrorists. They're fucking terrorists. He likely organized the mob stoning of a woman named Otherine Lucy who was the very first African-American student to attend the University of Alabama. So like this was so this was before the federally enforced. This was one young woman who was actually I think she was even I think she's going to grad school at this point. So this

woman already had a degree. She was trying to get in. She was able to get in thanks to the sponsorship of certain people on the faculty. And so the great KK literally organized a mob where they had like somewhere close to a thousand people throwing rocks at the car as this Dean tries to shuttle this poor woman around campus in between classes to to protect her. There was more. It was during this quite busy year he co-founded a racist broadsheet titled The Southerner to keep the message of hate strong. It pushed pseudoscientific trash to justify discrimination and segregation mostly recycling old

material. So he's just taking articles and stuff he'd already written for his radio program and just rehashing it out into this like little tabloid newspaper he was publishing. The racist rag cautioned against internationalism with the same terrified anger that Alex Jones uses when talking about globalists. I was about to say I mean it's just the same thing. And once again anytime you hear globalists or internationalism that's all code words for the Jews who secretly control the shadow world government that these people believe in. Well I mean but these are also people that don't believe in you know so I

don't even have enough words to articulate how much I think these people suck. It's it's really sad it's very frustrating. So then Ace Carter ran for local police commissioner and lost. Yay. Now also once again still 1956 this is his this is a really big year. He traveled to Clinton Tennessee to oppose the integration of a local high school. There was no violence or issues inside the school everything actually went pretty smooth but Carter and his folks drove around in a car unironically flying both the Confederate and American flags and the letters KKK were emblazoned on the doors. They were

honking their horns and screaming at the top of their lungs and they distributed protest signs and encouraged people to attend anti-integration rallies in the evening. Here is a quote from one of Ace's speeches quote in the South we have 98% Anglo-Saxon race not counting the n-word. These are responsible people who erect free governments and who have stood up and told the n-word that you must cooperate that you must conduct yourself from a separate station but the communist says one world government one world economy and one world race. Well I mean we all live here so I mean I'm not necessarily for I think we could all

just be cool. But you'll see again the same thread that wallace of tying of tying the idea of letting black people use the same water fountain is communism. It's all and you know it's so sad because it just makes me flash to now and it's all the same fucking rhetoric. Yeah it's just now they just changed the terminology and tried to cloak the racism behind a couple more layers so you have to peel them back to actually find it but that's what we're here for. It's always there. So in 1957 things got even crazier and almost sent Ace to prison. Now a patrol officer in Birmingham was checking out

lights in a closed restaurant where the gray KK was holding a meeting that evening in the theater next door. Things got quite interesting from an interview with Dan Carter. Quote there were rumors that Carter was stealing from the coffers and one of the members demanded to have an independent accounting of the funds. And although it's a little unclear as to how it happened apparently Carter pulled out his long barrel 44 and began shooting. Quote so literally these guys are saying so it's like Ace we think you're skimming from the till there buddy can we just have somebody look and just double check the

books. His immediate reaction is to pull his pistol out and start shooting these guys. And that could have been the end of him right here and there like if he'd have killed somebody that probably would have been it but luckily or unluckily. Nobody died. Probably unluckily considering you were talking about it. I don't think anybody would miss these stains. So Ace was arrested, jailed and prosecuted but ultimately the Jefferson County District Attorney went out and dropped the charges rather than risk an incident with white nationalists. They were like we don't want the kind of heat this might bring so

they let him go. And in 1958 the very next year he quit his own clan group after dodging those legal troubles and ran for Lieutenant Governor of Alabama and lost. Badly. Now at this point he was completely outside acceptable social circles and his reputation was trash. He was thought of as the guy who shot at racist for not being racist enough. Well it wasn't just his reputation that was trash. So there's that. This man is pure garbage. He retreated back to his family home in Northeast Alabama and took menial jobs for a few years so he got knocked back so hard by his bullshit that he was basically back to milk and

cows but you can't keep a good racist down because someone appeared on the political stage to inspire Ace to make his comeback. Someone who could inspire the heart of a diehard Alabama segregationist. Baby it's your hero in mind. Friend of the pod George Corley Wallace. I don't want him to be a friend of mine. That's more like just having herpes. You don't want it. It's just not going away. Well remember sadly Wallace is directly connected. You think you're cool. You've been in remission for a while and all of a sudden you have a George Wallace flare up. Yeah well remember on the Kevin Bacon scale we

are only two degrees from George Wallace thanks to our lovely family history so we might as well at least understand what it all means. So inspired by Wallace's message which once again if you haven't heard our three-part series I talked about it at a great length and mental damage to my poor sister. Aisa wrote up several sample speeches and just walked right up to the fighting little judge outside of a courthouse and just handed them over saying I wrote just some speeches you should check them out and the rumor has it that Wallace did read through them and used one that very night and a

disgusting partnership was born. Aisa wrote speeches for both George and Lerlene Wallace during the respective governor's races and as we mentioned up top he wrote the infamous segregation forever inaugural address. I hate it. It's just not good. Now as a writer I was kind of interested in just like what his process was so quoting Dan Carter once more quote after locking himself alone in his room he would take his typewriter a couple of cartons of cigarettes and maybe a little whiskey as well he would get sort of wound up he would get on this kind of riding high unquote so he'd stay up drinking whiskey and chain

smoking Paul malls and get all angry and sweaty and poured his insecure white frustrations onto the page. Okay I will keep that in mind when researching just this I don't get I don't do this buddy although I have to say there's so much of my research that just makes me mad it does make me perpetually angry so I at least get that part of the writing. If you do the right just the right amount of drinking and smoking it really can be the right zone to write it I can tell you this from experience. So Wallace spoke the words and we kind of know how that story turned out. Wallace won and was sworn in on a cold January morning

59 years ago and ASA kept up the good-paying steady job for years with only one problem. George Wallace never publicly admitted to working with Carter and in fact denied it for the entirety of his life. It was brought up even like you know last years of his life and he's got tracks now because he was for all of the bullshit about it being reformed. He continued to lie to whitewash his past up until his death. So fuck George Wallace we only know about Carter's involvement because multiple Wallace staff opened up over the years and saying like canaries. The writer got all his money in cash payments under the

table so people donating to the Wallace campaign did not know they were directly paying Ace Carter to write this shit. Terrorist fucking monster. Who sent goons after Nat King Cole. But as Wallace shifted gears for his first one for president in 1968 he felt that ASA Carter was a liability. So the speech writer... You can't say! Yeah. Suddenly like when he's ready to be more mainstream for the national stage this guy is like an anchor around his neck and he needs to go. So the speech writer was quietly cut loose. Everyone was told to stop returning Ace's calls and I'm sure you can imagine that our hero took this in

stride and resolved to change his ways and become a better person. Probably not. Correct. I'm sorry to report that the grapes were quite sour. Ace Carter was pissed feeling he alone represented the true calling of white supremacy and he ran for governor of Alabama against Wallace in 1970. Hi okay so the one-time Wallace is a better option question mark. Well it's hard to say because I remember that was the the one the campaign that was deemed the most racist governor campaign in the history of America and yet and this will tell you something because even still Ace Carter ran on a more racist platform and

lost by a lot. So George Wallace found the sweet spot of racism to appeal to the Alabama the white fear. We don't want to actively kill them we just don't want to be in the same public spaces. Yeah but let's wait so this was 1970 so we're at the very end of that being okay even in in Alabama. Out of the five candidates on the Democratic side Ace finished dead last with only 1.51% of the vote as Wallace squeaked out a victory against Albert Brewer. In a television interview Ace said this of his feelings about George Wallace. Quote I wouldn't say I turned against George he left the cause so he left me when he did he accepted

integration in schools and of course we can't have that. So Wallace is a traitor because he ultimately folded on the integration issue. He didn't want to go to jail and he wanted to win more importantly to Wallace he wanted to be president of the United States. Real real sad that that didn't work out for him and he got shot instead. So Anthony. Because which is worse him or Nixon and when you really look at all the fucking horrific things that are happening to this day because of fucking Stephen Ash Richard Nixon I don't know. And yet he also created the EPA. I hate literally everything although I have to say this

asshole would have never been able to do this now. Like the internet remembers everything. Oh yeah and he already starts to suffer from a world that's increasingly more connected and and has a mass media. So in the 1971 Wallace inauguration black students marched in the celebratory parade which was a sign of the changing times. Meanwhile Ace Carter and a group of supporters protested holding up signs that said things including Wallace is a bigot and white children are being destroyed in the schools. A friend reported that Ace cried once out of sight lamenting that Wallace had sold out and perhaps

realizing that regardless of how he felt the war to preserve segregation was officially over. Because Wallace literally had like the marching band had black students you know, cheering for Wallace. So that's progress. Weird but okay. I mean what are you gonna do? I mean it honestly is a good thing. There was a sign so I'm not gonna bitch about that but just just the the optics are still a little fucked up. So this this thing with the word head his little his little assholes with the signs and go off and cries in a corner that was the last public appearance of Ace Carter. Hooray! So this is the point where he realizes I

got this ain't working anymore. It's time to reinvent myself. So Ace of Carter sold... Weirdest way ever. Well yeah we're about to get into that part. So Ace of Carter sold his farm and moved his family to Sweetwater, Texas. Texas? And spent some time in 1973 in St. George's Island Florida. He focused on writing this time fiction. He chose for his pen name Bedford Forest Carter. Named of course after Nathan Bedford Forest Confederate General and First Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. So in case people want to say oh he was this was him reforming himself he literally took his pen name after the founder of the fucking KKK. I

don't think he's moved very far in his opinions. Forest grew a mustache, got a tan, and started dressing like a cowboy. He started calling his own sons nephews and began to bullshit everyone he met about his past. But he did take the writing seriously and sold his first novel the Rebel Outlaw Josie Wales. Now this was a first basically a self-published book like he found this little outlet where he had to pay in order to get the book printed and stuff and so he's like selling out of the back of his car taking it to bookstores mailing it to people and then it worked. He was able to through this route get it

picked up by a larger publisher. I hate that he becomes successful. Yeah. There's nothing about the story that I don't absolutely hate to my core. Now I don't know if you know anything about the story of the outlaw Josie Wales but it very much is sort of this symbolic telling of Ace Carter's own story because Josie Wales it literally called the Rebel Outlaw. He was a southerner who refused to accept the the Reconstruction era south and so he flees west to Texas and ends up you know becoming an outlaw getting all this trouble but in the end he manages to kind of like start a new life for himself away from this society

that moved away from his values. So you can sort of say this is like this heroic retelling in his brain like this self mythologizing. He is the Clint Eastwood in this story. Now I don't. All of this makes me sad. Keep going. Oh no you're this just yeah. You tainted Clint Eastwood. I mean not that I mean that's not hard but yeah it's not really at all but yeah. Yeah an editor I used to work with wrote a biography on Clint Eastwood. Yeah it's all a problem. He was a piece of shit and we're actually going to talk a few things about that here. Now Robert Daly was a producer working with Clint Eastwood in the 70s and this was a guy with an eye for

material to adapt to the screen. He found an unsolicited copy of Josie Wales just in the slush pile of stuff coming into the office that was sent in by Carter and he just he was kind of like looks interesting so after dinner he grabbed the book decided to read the first few chapters and ended up he thought it was a page turner. I mean I haven't read it but apparently it's a pretty good Western if you like that sort of thing. If you like that sort of thing. And so he literally like late at night called Clint Eastwood to discuss it who took his call because he's like damn if if Robert's calling me in the middle of the night about this book it must be pretty cool. So a typical option to adapt a novel to the screen in the like early 70s was

about five grand. Forrest Carter got five times that much with his very first book with a promise of much more cash to come so this is the beginning of his like financial success as an author. So here he is on that verge of breaking out and you get the sense that Forrest suddenly became really afraid of his past screwing things up for him. So in the spring of 1974 Asa Carter reappeared in Alabama and went into the field office of the Federal Bureau of Investigations from the documentary The Reconstruction of Asa Carter quote Carter tells the agent that he's about to leave Alabama and if they ever need to reach him for any reason he gives them two phone numbers and the FBI agent asks well why would we want to contact you Ace and he says well I think

I'm going to stop making some money for the first time in my life and I don't want anything to screw it up. He had the foresight to know what an FBI agent sniffing around might mean to his career. It would be the last entry in an FBI file that stretched over a thousand pages unquote. So this guy as a terrorist has a fucking file this thick and in cycle of pedias on his last ones like look if you guys need anything I'm available just just don't go talking to people you contact me through these numbers because he really really wanted to sell this Forrest Carter is a real person thing because there's one thing to be a book author back then because you can be a successful author and still be pretty much anonymous but the moment movies and like mainstream media get

involved that's when like people start paying more attention to you. So the original director was a guy named Philip Kaufman and he wanted to make changes to the script to downplay what he felt were fascist overtones. Yeah I can I can see that you're like you know. And in fact he had such a problem with it and the fact that there was pushback and they wouldn't didn't want him to change the script that he quit the project over creative differences. Good for you dude. But you know who doesn't mind fascist overtones a little bit? Clint fucking Eastwood that's who if you need a fascist movie or someone to yell at an empty chair for an hour you just call Clint. So he took over directing as well as starring in the film. That tracks. And again I've seen the movie even

though it's been a while I remember liking it. I mean it seems like a fun western. I'd have to watch it again with my more adult and educated lens to kind of see the stuff they're talking about. I just have vague memories of it. Clint Eastwood shoots a bunch of people. No you know what I've learned recently about nostalgia is that it sucks. Yeah. It's like you know how much looking back do we really really need. Yeah I think the word nostalgia literally comes from a root word which means an old wound. Yeah. It's actually a damaging in many many ways. I mean worth the very least just being exploited to sell us back our childhood which we're living through right now. You know it's like I still love the Wizard of Oz even though I know that

everyone in it was basically tortured in order to make that film. And it's like well you got tortured for something Judy Garland. The original 10 man nearly died. He did and he didn't even get to be in the film. He didn't get any money for it. He just literally gave him cancer and he almost died. Now during the press tour for Josie Wales Forest Carter gave an interview to Barbara Walters on the Today Show instantly causing many folks in Alabama to fall out of their chairs as the ace Carter they knew spewed obvious bullshit on national television. This led to some sniffing around and on August 26 1976 the New York Times published an uncredited piece titled Is Forest Carter really ace a Carter? Only Josie Wales may know for sure.

The piece lays out the evidence that the racist and the cowboy author were one and the same including the fact that the novel had a copyright application with the same address in Oxford Alabama used by ace a Carter. So it's like a slam dunk. They're the same fucking guy plus look at a picture of this one and the one with the mustache and the hat. They're the same guy. You don't have to have facial recognition in order to have some facial recognition. So from this from this New York Times piece quote but Forest Carter says it isn't so he says that he is no politician but both a cowboy and an Indian and that his next book The Education of Little Tree will tell about his own Indian childhood in the household of his grandfather half Cherokee and his grandmother full Cherokee

unquote and speaking of shameless cultural appropriation at the same time Forest Carter was dodging allegations of his racist past his most beloved work was released. The Education of Little Tree was first published to modest success but as we discussed before it went on to have waves of bestseller status and to this day many adults considered one of their beloved children's books that means a lot to a lot of people. I mean that's kind of why Oprah picked it even after the book had been out for a long time because people read it and were touched. It's all bullshit and lies children. Yeah that's the problem. I mean now granted if you just published it as fiction. Yeah but yeah that's the thing it was published as a memoir in the non-fiction section supposedly as

Forest Carter's memory of life with his Cherokee grandparents. Now the book at the very beginning of the book it declared the author the storyteller in counsel to the Cherokee Nation but weirdly the publisher didn't contact Cherokee Nation to verify this. The memoir finger quotes intentional not only included completely fictional events and people it included straight up bullshit so like made up Cherokee words made up Cherokee customs completely inaccurately described what people you know of this culture would be doing and wearing and at this time. So for example in the book the grandparents have young little tree wearing buckskins something not typically seen in Cherokee living in the 1920s who are wearing mostly just normal clothes. Yeah it's but remember

this is the 1970s and he was this this was this was romanticizing it for this like hippie audience that you know our parents the boomer hippies who are putting feathers in their hair and adopting all this Native American new age shit. I mean this is almost to the day two years before I was born because yeah this is this period where where Native Americans began to be kind of weirdly romanticized even as we still treated them like dog shit but this is where like you know remember the old PSA with the crying which that dude was an Italian so yeah this is just so this is just typical of this period because once again it's just trying to weaponize this sort of like weird feeling we had because there's all these books like The Last of the Mohicans there's all these

stories that kind of tried to rehabilitate the image and romanticize and you know this idea of the noble savage and they're the sort of lost cause we sort of almost feel bad about everything we did to them and continue to do to them and impress them all while we talk about how great they are because they you know they're in touch with nature and have these wise ways and stuff instead of treating them like real people instead they're once again just made into a monolith it's it's all it's weird but it's like so so it's like this is not directly attacking them but instead just using them for for his own gain which is again sucks I mean to me that's the true and very American like cultural appropriation is something I have my own mixed feelings about

because sometimes I think it's overused I mean there's culture blends and crosses over and like not there there's some things that are attacked I think aren't so harmful but what this a hundred percent is it's like I'm gonna just make up shit about another culture dress up and tell a fake story to sell books that's that is which would be fine if you sold it as fiction correct so while Forrest careers and author was taking off his personal life was a shit show he separated from his wife who stayed in Florida and moved to Abilene Texas and was working on a little tree sequel he was well liked and known for being a good friend and an engaging dinner guest but sometimes when he had a little bit too much whiskey he'd mutter unfortunately racial slurs

under his breath or say something terrible that people had to apologize for because once again I don't think I think he's hiding his racism he didn't change his ways like he never once addressed any of it that tracks so yeah I know I know certain other people from Alabama who do that too they just never happened don't want to discuss it let's not let's not talk about any of that so Asa Earl Forrest Bumblebee Carter only lived to the age of 53 and his death is just as weird and ugly as the rest of his life yay he's done the details are sketchy but one thing the stories all agree on he was visiting his son in Potosi Texas when they got into some kind of argument and the younger Carter punched his old man square in the face he he punched his old man to death

he punched him in the face one time and he just died so most of the reports state that Asa Carter had a heart attack on the scene died others say he hit on his head on the way down to the floor and died choking on his own vomit either way he's dead yay we got there you know the only thing I can say about this story is I'm really glad it wasn't three parts no this one I couldn't do that to you plus there really wasn't enough meat and this one to really justify a multi-part episode a man named Howard White reflected on his friendship with Asa Carter in his later years saying quote Ace was one of the most complex people I've ever known and you wonder if anyone really knew him sometimes I wonder if he really knew himself unquote you know who knew him fucking

wife India that bitch knew him she knew what a piece of shit he was from start to finish guaranteed even if she loved him and and was all good with it she knew yeah now she it took her a really long time after his death to finally admit to the press because every once in a while it comes so she for years she denied that that uh Forrest and Asa Carter were the same person but eventually she didn't care anymore you got me and she lived I think she lived sometime into the 1990s actually like just like his own mother his his wife lived outlived him by decades and that's it we did it another dead racist in the books here at chainsaw history they're dead hooray how's that don't we aren't we glad things are all better now oh well I will say this the

education of little tree has been now reclassified uh as fiction and Oprah took it off of her book list well that's going and basically just said I didn't know I just thought it was a nice book you know which is fair enough for me she certainly wasn't the only one fooled and most people were unless you happen to be Cherokee yeah and again it's it's like the whole that's very scandalous but it's only scandalous because it's why wouldn't you just put it as a fiction book it almost does it need to be a biography I think he thought it needed to be to sell the story but you know it's hard to say you know in the end he he died early in his career so he never even had I guess we'll never know that if he'd live longer if he would have confronted

his change of ways if his other books were done who knows either way uh not too sorry that this guy is dead I mean like I said actual fucking terrorist that's what I wasn't expecting I kind of knew he was a racist piece of shit going into this I had no idea the extent I was like my eyebrows went really wide it was like I think I need to talk about this when he assaulted Nat King Cole that's probably the linchpin that was well that definitely was the what the fuck moment it's like yeah I need to tell this to somebody because I'd never heard that before well this is our first new recording in quite a while but we've got new episodes on the way soon I keep hinting about this one guy I'm going to talk about and I keep putting it off but

I think I'm going to start that script soon until then you can visit our patreon at chainsawhistory.com you can visit my website at jamiechambers.net or my twitter account which is at jamie1kf and you can good luck finding baby in the internet I don't live or play there it's fine even though I will sometimes tag her in pictures that's that's all you get oh while we're on it just this is a complete change of the topic but and I'm almost thinking about putting it as my profile pic for a while Erin got me a Barbie doll to commemorate our first podcast so I because I collect Barbie dolls now and the owner of George Washington Barbie you got George Washington Barbie she's dressed in hot pink it's fabulous so am I gonna have to get George Wallace Barbie made for you under

absolutely no circumstances if we get enough patrons where we start having more money than we know it just been I promise you I will make this happen no thanks I don't know no I mean I have Barbie and Ken and some some really weird situations but I definitely I mean I'm really cool with George Washington Barbie George Wallace Barbie would make me very sad I'm sure what as with the people of we can work our way through into a Francis Perkins Barbie next which would be I would love a Francis Perkins you know she's all frumpy frumpy Barbie she doesn't have to she could yeah it'd be like Barbie and her skeptical again big ol glasses trying to hide her face yeah Francis Perkins dressed like an old lady when she was 20 years old now I have Eliza

do little Barbie we have a tradition of talking about recommended charitable donations and considering the way that Asa Carter appropriated a Cherokee identity for his personal profit I say give a direct donation to the Cherokee Nation or another organization to help indigenous people of America so if you check the show notes I will have a couple of links up along those lines um I actually just the only link I want to put up is for a suicide hotline um there's just it's going around right now so take care of yourselves take care of each other and if anyone needs it we'll have that one 800 number up on our site too yeah and if anyone's you know if you're feeling that way feeling especially sad lonely if you're thinking at all about hurting yourself yeah call the call

the hotline or talk to someone you trust don't try to wrestle with all this stuff alone yeah the world is terrible and you know get help when you need it so take care of you indeed and that note I think we're gonna call it another one in the books thanks for listening everybody hooray thanks bye little girl you're the one girl for me little girl you're as sweet as can be with your glad you brought me love from the start oh what a thrill came into my heart little girl with your cute little ways I'm yours for the rest of my days and this great big world