Chambers of the Occult - EP# 10 Murder Castle and Terror in the French Countryside: The Crimes of H.H. Holmes and The Beast of Gévaudan

Episode Date: May 28, 2024

Send us a Text Message.In this chilling episode, we delve into the dark and twisted tales of two infamous figures who left a trail of terror in their wake. First, we explore the horrifying legacy of H.H. Holmes, America's first documented serial killer. Known for his "Murder Castle" in Chicago, Holmes lured victims into his labyrinthine hotel, filled with hidden passageways, trapdoors, and torture chambers. Discover the dark details of his cunning schemes and the eventual downfall of one of history's most cunning and sinister murderers.Then, we travel to 18th century France to investigate the legend of the Beast of Gévaudan. This mysterious creature terrorized the rural countryside, reportedly killing over a hundred people. Was it a wolf, a rogue animal, or something more sinister? This week for our bonus story, Kai covers an ancient manuscript, written in an unknown script and filled with illustrations of unidentifiable plants, astronomical charts, and mysterious figures. This cryptic book has baffled scholars, cryptographers, and historians for centuries, sparking countless theories about its origins and meaning.

Chambers of the occult may contain content that might not be suitable for all listeners. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. This is episode 10, right? Yeah, episode 10. Yeah. Okay. It's been a while since we recorded. Yeah, I was gonna ask, like, are you still there listeners? I know. We skipped an episode. Sorry about that. but we're back. We're back And we went through life. Yeah, sure. Yeah, I Mean there's nothing I mean technically I guess there's a better way to say that though it is life Yeah, yeah, I mean

I don't is there a better way to say it. I don't think so. I don't really want to find one. Anyway, welcome back to the chambers of the occult. Oh, yeah. We're three friends. I'm Kai. Hey. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh, I'm Alexis. Yay, you did it. My god Yeah, you did it

Okay All right, are we cool? Yeah. Yeah anything happen in what you guys's lives? I know Lexus wanted to talk about something. Yeah, but What's on your mind I was I was discussing a certain a certain matter with a person that I know in my life and we were talking about... Okay. I think we were talking about the Mandela. What? Oh, I just thought that was very vague. It's just my friend. She's my my old boss. Okay. Yeah

But we were talking about the Mandela effect And I don't know if you guys have heard of it or seen this video or anything like that But do you guys know the fruit of the loom thing? Yeah. Oh Yeah, the cornucopia Thank you. I was going to call it like corcupine. Same thing. Yeah, I didn't realize. Yeah. So I just found this out. All right. Yeah, pretty recently. But people were saying that they've always remembered the Fruit of the Loom logo with the cornucopia in it. And everybody was like, No, it was never in it, never in it,

blah, blah, blah. And then one person was like, so adamant about that cornucopia that they went through their old clothes. And they found this shirt with the cornucopia in it and the logo. And I was like, Oh, my God. It's a Glitten the universe, brother. Oh my god. It's a Glitch in the Universe brother. I was like, that's crazy. Never been surprised to see Nekora Copia. It's not even just like the Fruit of the Loom logo either. It's like so many different things. So many things, yeah. The monopoly man. We'll do a skog on the Mandela effect one day. And we should. Yeah. What? Let us know if you're interested listeners. Yeah.

We could all team up with different things. What if like, what if the real Mandela effect was like us not being a real podcast at all? And we're actually like in a simulation yeah power wash simulator IRL I love that game power you know what I to say, listeners, let us know if you want us to play Powerwash Simulator. Or to be honest, just anything. Like, scary game because... Literally any suggestions ever. Finite chat, Fwaddy.

Like we will take into consideration any suggestion you send to us ever at all, at any time. Yeah, I will. I'll make fun of you. We did get a few emails recently, which was nice, but we need more. Yeah. I mean, we don't need more. We want more. So we need more, please. That's true.

No, because going back to what I said about the Mandela effect, I don't know if you ever remember seeing like Tinkerbell show up in the Disney movies, like before it started, like with the cast and things like that. The only time I remember that it's for the DVDs not for the actual movies but I don't know. I might just be not from this reality. I don't think you are. Definitely. You are out of this world Jay. Okay, Alexis. Does curious George have a tail or not? He does he doesn't he doesn't he is a short tail, right? Like none at all no tail now look you're lying to me No, you're lying to me. Look him up right now.

He has no tail. No, you're lying to me. There's no way. He has no tail. Why does his buttocks have no tail attached to it? The man in the yellow hat actually never wears yellow. He does. I know.

You know what's crazy? I have no tail. He has no tail. Where is his tail? Who took his tail? No, he does. He does. I don't care what anybody says. He does.

Did you look it up, Alexis? Yeah. And I see a tail. I don't know what you guys are talking about. Oh my gosh. A curious George puppet. What? Need a car?

What did you find? A curious George. Oh, it's just a plush. Oh, you guys. What? I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Anyway, which puppet? What? Need a car. What did you find? I curious, George.

Oh, it's just a plush. Oh, I'll pack up plush and wool felt. The hell? Circa 2002. What? Damn. I don't know how you got there, but OK. I mean, I'll send a link right now. Next thing you know, we're going to have a Cureage George Flash.

Seriously, it's $375. Wait, what? Damn, dude. And it's a nine inch doll. Damn, it's pretty big though. But that's $3 bucks for that though? That's crazy. I have spent that kind of amount of money on Brock's so.

Oh my gosh. That's fine. I know. I know. Let's see this. Goodness gracious. Monkey. Oh, he's not even a good looking monkey.

No, he's not. I mean, he looks like a monkey. Are you saying monkeys are ugly? I was gonna say that's... Wow. Can't believe it. Because he doesn't have a tail, Alexis doesn't like him. Oh, she's racist.

Yeah I am. Oh. Yeah, she's racist. Yeah, I am. Oh I don't know if that's I mean deformity thing Anyways, I loved curious George growing up. I loved watching it before school. Yeah Yeah No Oh my god, I found a curious George backpack. Backpack. It's a lounge buy backpack. See I know the song, but I only know it in Spanish.

What? Really? Yeah. I don't know, like, the song at all. So I guess that's a good start. But... Fair. Dude, Dora the Explorer was like, was my show when I was little.

Like, that was my shit. You don't remember the song? Yeah, I don't remember the song? Yeah, I don't remember the song, no. I don't remember my childhood. Do you guys remember your childhood? Like, what is your earliest memory? Okay, I got you. All right. So my earliest memory, this is one of the first things I remember, I have no idea why. I was maybe like, shoot, this is when trauma, so like six, and then I remember my mom putting my hair in buns, and then like putting socks on them so that my hair would come out curly the next day.

But like fuzzy socks. And that's the early memory that I have. I was probably like five or six. Yeah. I don't remember much before then. I have like these memories that I've been planted in my brain so I can't tell what's real. No same. I don't have I don't have active recall of memories, literally, like, ever. What do you mean, active recall? Like, I cannot just access a memory. Like, I can't just, like, think on it. Like, there has to be something very explicit that, like, triggers a memory. Isn't that a couple? And then I can actually, like... It always works? I'm not sure.

I mean I know people can go back and literally just like think of a memory or something. I feel like... Okay, because Alexa's going back to like the first memory we had. Yeah. I have a couple but I don't know which one I was the youngest at. But once again Alexis trauma yeah I know why I remember that memory no I had one from like preschool I want to say damn yeah like I don't remember preschool at all I have like two memories from preschool and one of them

was just because I was actually I have a tiny. Like I was done with one class and the next year I had a different teacher and I think I just cried because I wanted the same teacher. That's it. What? Yeah, you know, because when you start a new grade you get a new teacher. Yeah. Yeah, I was crying because I didn't want a new teacher. I wanted my old teacher. But another one that I have is as a

I don't know like preschooler, first grader, second grader maybe. No preschooler. I almost killed a girl or I thought I did. Oh my god Jae you should not have been this at the podcast. She's okay. She is okay. She survived. How do you know? Do you still talk to her? Because I apologize to her for almost killing her. It's not like what it sounds like. I think it is exactly what it sounds like. The playground, like, you know, there's all the, I don't, they're not toys, but they're, what do we call them? Playground games? Playground things? Like yeah, just activities. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Things to play on. And we never had the swings to play on because they were

like wrapped up. I don't know. Or as long as I can remember, the swings were just not part of the playground. They were just wrapped up. That's so sad. And one day I thought I liked this girl. So I wanted to like So we I tried to get her to go play with me with the swings, but of course they're wrapped up. And because I was a pretty tall kid for my age, like not super tall, just like a few inches more than other kids. I was like jumping and hitting the swing so it would like unwrap.

And you know, I did that once and he was like unwrapping and I kept doing it. And at some point as it was unwrapping, it hit the girl on the face. Oh my God, Jay. And I ran away. Fuck. What? You serial killer.

No, so. I'm kidding. Looking back, it would have been fine if she wasn't standing in front of the swing. I mean, she saw me. You're blaming her. No, we're kids. There's no one to blame. I was kidding.

You guys are kids. You guys are kids. No, at that point I blamed the teachers for wrapping up the swings. Ballad. No, so I ran to the front of the school and there's a gate so I couldn't leave. And I started sobbing there thinking that I was gonna like go to jail because like I killed her I was like a kindergarten. I was in kindergarten. I really did think that like Her face was gone or something I guess

eventually like I think it was the principal or like one of the teachers came over and like she wasn't upset or anything. She was just like, why are you crying? And I just told her everything and she clearly already knew what happened. She was just being a good teacher and you know getting my side of the story. And they told me that she was fine. I think they gave her like an ice pack or they gave her something.

It wasn't anything major. She had no broken nose. She wasn't bleeding. It just hurt her. So I went back and I apologized. And that's why I'm gay because I almost killed a girl. Honestly, great. Yeah. I think that's like very valid reason. Yeah, yeah. I was traumatized by girls from a young age. Yeah. Because you killed one. Yeah, yeah. Because I'm like, shoot. Did I? No, but like you said, when it comes to early memories, I think it's like trauma and like

weird little things that are important. 100%. Yeah. Go ahead. Okay. Who's going ahead? Me? Yeah. You did say you have. I have this implanted memory. I think it's a bit, I don't know if it's real or not. I've like,

you say like aliens took you. Yeah. Like implanted the memory into your mind. Cause I don't know, cause I don't know, like a made up memory, I guess, whatever. I have this made up memory in my head. I don't know if it's made up or if it's true of like, this is the only like kindergarten, I guess, memory that I have. And it's so embarrassing. I don't know if I should share but like It just like it's though I guess it's like the only memory that I like look back on and I'm like dude Is this true or not? Because if it is oh My god, dude, that is so embarrassing because it was hard. It was so basically. What is it?

Not tell us now i no it wasn't really that a bit okay i guess maybe i'm just overthinking it but i just i didn't know that like i went i don't know what you're gonna say but i'm nervous i went into the bathroom and i really had to pee and then I and then the number one turned into a number two and I got scared because I didn't I didn't I don't think I knew what a number two was at that point I don't know. Yeah, like I just I guess. Bro had never shit in her life. I don't know. Like I didn't know when I was actively doing it. I don't know.

Aliens definitely implanted this into your brain. Yeah, that's a memory from Aliens for sure. For sure. I don't know. But like I always look back on it and I'm like, dude, is this real or not? I don't know. Anyways. That's when you realize that you're like a person that has thoughts and you became sentient I Think my earliest memory like I'm not even sure if it's like a true memory Like altered some way, but I don't remember I literally do not remember most things

It's insane, but I think the earliest memory I have is when I literally do not remember most things it's insane But I think the earliest memory I have is when I was in like second or third grade, maybe I think it was second grade and it's like So like definitely not as early as y'all Yeah, anything before them I don't I don't remember whatsoever you were like seven Like you would be number two Yeah, anything before them, I don't remember whatsoever. You were like seven, six? Yeah. So I love your bloomer, Alexis. Like, you were here number two.

Yeah. No, but it was also embarrassing. I was at school, right? And elementary school. And we went to the computer lab for that day, cause we were doing like, I don't know if it was state testing or if it was like some type of testing or something that we were doing in the computer lab. But I was sitting there doing my test and you know how sometimes like,

like if you pause your test at like, or like you couldn't get up to go to the bathroom or anything because like you couldn't pause your test. Yeah. Yeah. So, or like I was too scared something would happen. But I was doing my test, blah, blah, blah, and I really had to go pee. But I was so scared to ask my teacher to go to the bathroom and get up and go pee that I just peed my pants.

Hold on. What grade were you in? I think it was second or third grade. OK, I think it was the exact same story. I don't know. It might have been a little bit later, though. That's the thing. Like, I'm not too sure. I think it was third grade. I don't know. Mine. OK. Mine was for sure. Fourth grade.

OK, it gets worse. So third or fourth. Yeah. So I peed my pants, right? Like so my shorts whatever that was wearing of course I I finished my test and then I got up and I moved to a different computer But the the the the chair that I was just sitting and had like a pile of my pee Like a puddle of tea just like air and I was like, oh my god But then there was this other girl from my class and she came in late because she had like a doctor's appointment or something. She came in late. She walks over down

the rows of the of the seat. Yeah. And guess which chair she decides to pull out and sit down. Yep. The one with the of my pee. She sits down and she's like, you know, like why is this wet and she like touches it and she's like Oh, that's so gross and she like wipes her hand off and then she just moves to a different chair and I was like Oh, I don't know. That's so weird. Why is it wet? Yeah, I think that's my earliest memory that I have. I don't know. Did y'all ever order things from like the Scholastics like all the time? The Scholastics book fair? Yeah, I have a memory about that as well because I transferred schools during like middle school at some point and I had ordered some things in one school and I had collected like money between like the couch cushions and things like that just to like make it up to like what I wanted to buy.

And I put the order in and I get transferred from one school to another one and I'm like, oh great, like I'm never going gonna see my scholastic order. And at some point I was a new kid and then at some point there was a new kid that like transferred after me. And when the scholastic thing came they moved it to, you know, they sent it to my school where I got transferred. But I guess they told that it was for the new kid and rather than give me my scholastic order, he got my scholastic order. And I never said anything and I just had to sit there in class as he like unwrapped it like across the classroom from me and I saw it get everything out. No, I never did that. I never ordered from like Scholastic. Really? You never like got anything from the Scholastic book there? No, I had to use my money for food.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It iscessity some new. Whoa. Whoa, sometimes I I spent way too much money on the book fair. It was Yeah, it was insane There was this one year though. I think it was like Fifth grade maybe something like that. I stole just a bunch of shit from the book fair Yes, that was like it was the cool thing to do. All of my friends were stealing shit. And so it actually got so bad that the school started having to make announcements to not steal.

And eventually you couldn't just go into the book fair. There was one of the teachers who was outside and had to check to make sure you actually had money on you to be able to go inside and buy things. And then sometimes they would like check your pockets or whatever as you went outside. But I still went in and I like stole a bunch of shit. I like, I like put a bunch of stuff in like my like a waistband and I kept it tucked in there. I would like slide like bookmarks and stuff into my shoes, under my feet to keep them hidden. I stole so much stuff this one time. And I was so scared because I was trying to walk out with it and the lady was like... And I was like, oh yeah, I didn't end up getting

anything. And she was like, really? You didn't end up getting anything? I was like, nope, I didn't find anything I liked. And she was like, you sure? So if I were to check your pockets right now, nothing would be in there, right? And I was like, uh, yeah, no, like I didn't, I didn't take anything. I was like, I was like afraid for my life in that moment. Luckily, she didn't actually like search, like she believed me for some reason, I guess. And she let me go. And I was like waddling back to my classroom because I had a bunch of stuff in my pants. It was so dumb. Looking back, they sold a lot of like tiny little things that we clearly should have not

spent money on. 100%. No, yeah. Like why are you just letting kids spend money on this stuff? Yeah. You know. The one thing that I did and remember buying from the book fair was like a little collection of like Goosebumps books. Oh, cute. Oh my god. That was really fun. Do you guys remember those chocolate calculators? Yeah. The calculators shaped like a chocolate bar. Yeah. And they smelled like chocolate too. i'm looking this up right now. i loved those things. i love chocolate. i like dark chocolate. wait what? yeah. yeah they're like. these were sick.

i don't know if i've ever seen them. are they like actual chocolate or are they actual? no it's it's an actual calculator But like it looks and it smells like chocolate. That's why Listeners, do you remember them? Do you remember the scholastic book fair in general? Yeah, tell us what you bought. Let us know Yeah, or what you like from there. Yeah The other day like I Was back at work for the first time in two weeks, right? Like a week and a half or something.

And so it was the first time I really had used my water bottle since then. And I cleaned it and I filled it up and everything to get ready for work. And I took my first sip of the water. And since that day, the lid of my water bottle water bottle for some reason has smelled like the chocolate calculator. Really? Yeah, like the the plastic lid or something like it. I don't know. It's like chemical composition and like maybe the way it heated up from it just sitting there for two weeks, like made it smell chocolatey for some reason. I don't know.

I don't know. Does it still smell like that? It's very faded now. It was like, it was decently strong a few days ago. Now it's just like, yeah, probably not the best thing, but it was a little nostalgic for a little bit. No, of course. Yeah. At that point, I'm like, yeah, but concerning at first. Of course, yeah. At that point I'm like, yeah, but concerning at first. Yeah, yeah. Alexis, yeah, yeah, yeah. I relate. I relate.

Anyways. Are we ready for the spooky? Yeah, should we give the listeners what they're here for? Spooky, scary, skeletons, which speaking of skeletons That brings me into HH homes What? My true crime case. Oh, I forgot you were starting us off. Yeah Wait, I forgot too. I thought you were per- wait. No, I'm true crime.

Oh wow. Well, cool. Take it away. Someone doesn't pay attention. Before, before, I just want to say, if you guys do want to hear more of us just like talking and chatting away like this, let us know. Give us topics, like on our website for suggestions.

We would love to have days where we can just talk about random stuff that you guys want to hear from us. So that'd be really fun. Because we see each other, but we still don't see each other as much as we would like to. Yeah. So talking is always nice. It is. It's okay.

Take it away, Alexis. Yeah, yeah, take it away, Alexis. Yeah, yeah. Take it away, ma'am. All right. I'll take it away since, you know, I always carry this podcast. Anyways. I'm going to use her at last. Yeah, my back is hurting a little bit.

So you're starting off from now on then, or? No. No, I'll let you guys go first every now and then so you can boost your egos a little bit. You know what I'm saying? Okay, thank you. What if you go first? How are you gonna carry us? Are you gonna be pushing us instead? I'll carry, yeah, I'll push you guys. I'll push you guys a lot.

Okay, so you're covering a big case. How do you know I'm covering a big case? Just because anyone's covering a big case. You tell me. I am covering a big case. Just because they know it's a big case. You tell me. I just know it's a big case. I know like 2% of information from this individual. Oh my god. So wait, did this individual do you know what I'm talking about? Well, you did say the name already. You said H. H. Holmes. No, no, I'm sorry, but this was a listener suggestion. Oh, yeah.

Did they say that they wanted their name to be mentioned? Did they write their name in the suggestion? All three of us know who it is. H. H. Holmes? I don't think they did. Hold on, let me check. Is this an old suggestion? It was one of the original stories.

No, it's not. It's, oh. It's one of the original. Her it's not it's uh oh it's one of the original word name and pronouns they just said their name so yeah let's give them a shout out okay all right so this one's to our homeboy all three of us we love this guy his name is alex lovely call oh thank you for the suggestion alex me thank you very much. He be supportin. So let me support you bro by telling this case. Let me flow right now. Okay. So this is G T's. Okay. Yeah. You spell it out. I just did. Can you use it in a sentence? Country of origin. Country of origin. Alright. Your mama.

Wow. Are you not going to give us the country of origin? New Hampshire. Gilmanton. Wow. Pacificly. So he was originally born as Herman Webster Mudgett, but he's also known as Dr. Henry

Howard Holmes, H.H. Holmes. He was born May 16th 1861 in Gelmanton, New Hampshire and he is also known as one of America's first serial killers. So Holmes grew up very privileged in life. He grew up very well educated, just like Sarah for real. And he eventually showed some signs and people around him started raising some concerns about him. Holmes, at an early age, became really interested in medicine and started performing surgeries on animals. So that was like the first

telltale sign that he was an interesting guy is what we should say maybe. Big animals, small animals? Um all of the above. Okay I'm just curious if it was like birds that he caught or like I'm just curious if it was like birds that he caught or like cats. It doesn't get into specifics as to what animals he killed. But I mean, there's one where he would just like, I think it just started with dissecting frogs and then it became larger from there. Yeah, I did that in middle school. I never did that. Is that a sign?

That's in class in class. Let me clarify. It was a scientific dissection. I saved. But yeah, he was known to like dissect animals as if he was performing a surgery on them. So that was like one of the first things that really came up that of course caught people's eye. But some say that he might have been responsible for one of his friends death as well. There's no record of who this friend is. It doesn't say anything about who that person is,

when they died, how they died. So I had no idea. It is simply just like a rumor, I assume. But eventually as Holmes grew up, he went to go onto the University of Michigan. He was in the medicine and surgery department. And he would actually claim false insurance claims by stealing corpses. Don't even ask me how that man. Yeah, yeah. He would also use this guy

I've heard someone's calling for like insurance money, but I didn't know the whole story So Just to go back a little bit so Holmes found work it or forward a little bit after he got his degree Holmes found work in a pharmacy and little bit. After he got his degree, Holmes found work in a pharmacy. And this is when he started going under his alias of Dr. Henry H Holmes, H H Holmes. He moved to Chicago in August 1886. 1886. And he began working at a. It was in the Inglewood section of Chicago. The owner of the drug store was Elizabeth Holton.

Eventually, Holmes bought the store from Holton. And across the street from the drug store, he purchased an empty lot of land, and he started construction in 1887. He built this two story building and there were rumors that there were secret passageways, trap doors, soundproof rooms, gas jets for asphyxiation. Oh my God, asphyxiation. My fault. And then there was also these doors that would only lock from the outside. And he also had a kiln for cremation is what people would say.

This is actually published from the yellow press during that time. The yellow press also claimed this building to be the murder castle. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa. Yeah, yeah. That's what happened to get that title. So let me tell you, let me tell you. Yeah, yeah, what happened to get that title so Now I don't know Entirely

None of us are like from what I've researched. Nobody knows entirely how many people he killed the estimate is from 20 to 200 people. That's a big range. Yeah. Damn. Yeah. That goes from the double to the triple digits real quick. Yeah.

20 to what? 20 to 200. Oh, God. Yeah. So that's the estimate. But a lot of the research that I've done about this is pretty vague. Some of it is rumors, some of it is things that he confessed to but never got charged against for. So it's really kind of like a a I don't know, it's like

a gray area, I guess. But he started building that building again in 1887. And the first floor, he built a new drugstore. The second floor was mainly meant for like apartments and retail stores, which is kind of crazy. But he also denied the Architects and Steel Company at Iron and Steel is the company name. He declined them of pay. So they took him to court in 1888. I have no idea what happened in court. There's no record that I could find if he was, like if there was a settlement or anything like that, there's no knowledge of. But then he built another part of another floor in the building in 1892, which was meant to be like a hotel for anybody who was visiting the exposition for the World's Columbian Exposition.

So a lot of visitors, a lot of tourists would go through. And so some would say that he would lure people into this hotel that he built so that he could kill them and sell their skeletons to local medical schools. And this is something that he's done before. He did used to sell bodies when he was in middle school school in Michigan or yeah, he would sell their bodies at local Medical schools. Yeah, wasn't that legal for many years? Yeah, it was yeah Which is crazy to think about the fact that you could just sell a body

to just sell a body to just sell random medical school and just like, it's normal, it's okay. I mean, that's what Milo wants to do. He wants to donate his body to science. No, but I mean, like, that's a thing that like pretty commonly happened. Like medical schools would just buy bodies and like not question where they came from. Yeah. Yeah. Which is. Yeah. Now they rely on donations.

So. There's like not a whole lot as to what the interior of the building looks like. to what the interior of the building looks like. Some say that the hotel that he made on the third floor was like a maze with like brick walls and windowless rooms as well as like dead end staircases. Oh, doesn't that sound familiar? It sounds familiar. Wink wink. And then, well, maybe, but Sarah was different. It's okay. But it was just

a normal floor. It was just a normal hotel, nothing really too crazy. But there were some hidden rooms. So, home said these hidden rooms were mainly meant for hiding furniture, which I think is weird, I guess. I don't believe it. If he said that it's to like hide art, I would believe that more than for furniture. But it could be possible. So this is what they say. They said he was hiding furniture that he bought on credit and that he didn't want to pay for. And this man doesn't seem like he wants to pay for much of anything. So

honestly, I wouldn't put it past him. Fair. After being taken to court, I see that a little bit. Yeah. But when they went into the building, like I said, I mentioned that there were secret passageways, gas chambers, a kiln for cremation. When they went into the building, they didn't really find any of that. So these rumors came really from out of nowhere. Yeah. Yeah, what did you want to say? Nothing. You sure? Yeah. Okay. I'm processing it. I'm processing it too. However, even though his home or his building didn't necessarily look like it was a murder house, he still confessed to murdering people in that building. He confessed to mainly using suffocation kind of ways to kill methods to kill them. He would overdose them with chloroform. He would expose them to gaslight fumes. He would also trap them in airless vent kind of vaults and leave

them there. He would also make them starve and burn them alive in his castle, is what he says. So he does describe it as a castle. Yes, yeah, he does describe it as a castle. I don't know why he describes it as such. It could have just simply came from the fact that that newspaper said that it was a murder castle. Did he start getting like, did he get arrested before confessing or did he just blur it out out of nowhere? He did.

He did. He got arrested quite a few times. But eventually the hotel that he had was actually gutted by fire. But it was it was by an unknown arsonist some people say it was him Now the reason why people say it was him is because he was known for insurance fraud Things he loved scheming Bro was diabolical. But didn't he get paid from his belly burning? What?

Sorry. Like, did, like, did, did he had insurance against, like, fire? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Okay, okay. I'm like, because if he didn't, then I don't see the point in it. But it's kind of crazy because he did get arrested for that reason. He got arrested for that in 1893.

He got arrested for insurance fraud after a fire, after the fire. And then he there, he actually conducted this whole thing with Ben He actually conducted this whole thing with Ben Pizzell, I think is his last name, how you pronounce it. So he got a whole lot of money from that. Do you know what that would be equivalent to now? Yeah, I can like that up for you. Let me look that up. Let me look that up for you really quick. $10,000.

Yeah, remember you're a math major. Okay. Okay, I am. Yeah, remember, you're a math major. Yeah, I am. $3,483.87. Wait, what? That's like not... That's like less. It's not that much. Oh, oopsies.

Yeah. I typo'd $347,000 at the time. Okay that sounds more right there. Yeah there we go. Yeah that's the right one. I mistyped. Math major. But yeah. So $347,000. Did he live like a life of luxury or anything like that? No. His father was abusive growing up. That was like, that's like the main reason why people think he ended up being like this, of course. But other than that, he did grow up like he had food at his table every day, grew up under. Yeah, but did he like buy expensive things if he could go on trips?

No. What was the reason for the money? No, there's no there's no really real motive behind it. I think he just really wanted to scam people. He just wanted money. He just loved scamming people. Yeah, no, literally. He was just known to be a con artist. He loves scamming people

Wow He I think I think part of it is that he loves scamming people and also he liked making his own Businesses in a way, I guess Yeah, so that he can get more money from them What was that? Not gonna lie, seems pretty fun. Yeah. Bring them down and start a new business. Yeah.

Maybe I just like fire. Fire is nice. I love fire. You heard it here hear folks. So if you want to come up with me with fire, please don't. Anyways. But going to continue. Yeah, so humble just really like scamming people.

I'm not really sure why. I think he's just fun, joy, and it really kind of psychopath. But anyways, he after 1938, he was released on bail. But after 1938, he ended up owning a one story factory, But after 1938, he ended up owning a one-story factory, which he claimed was meant for glass bending. Which is crazy. I'm sorry? Thick? Thick?

Okay. Yeah, glass bending. But... This man really dabbled. He did. But it was never used. That sounds like me in a way. But it was never used.

It was never what? It was never used. That sounds like me in a way. But it was never used. It was never what? It was never used. He never used that building, that factory at all. For anything? Really? It was just completely left untouched. So the purpose for it was left unknown really this man was Pining after someone and he was like, yeah, I own a glass

vending factory But never cared to use it No, yeah, there's so many like weird things about this dude. I was just like, okay, you know I don't know maybe maybe he was just interested in a bunch of things and then he got like bored really quickly yeah it just was he like married they have a fiance no okay wait okay so the thing is the thing is he was oh what was the term uh he was a term. He was a... He could be a lot of things, Alexis. There we go. Bigamist. He was a bigamist. So he liked, he liked marrying married people. Yeah. And then he definitely sounds like me. then yeah he definitely sounds like me yeah what are you on like your fourth wife this year yeah fifth actually that's what I work on

got it got it that's what we were gone last week there was a wedding happening exactly yeah it was pretty nice honeymoon lost it a couple days, but yeah Now you're looking for a six one. Yeah She'll come around soon enough I hate everything about you guys. Okay Yeah, he's a big miss we liked marrying married people but He killed a lot of his wives Yes, okay for money. Do we have names of victims? I'm actually gonna name some right now. Yeah, I got you

so One of his these are presumed murders so One of his, these are presumed murders. So not entirely sure, but huge possibility. Before he moved to Chicago in 1880, one of his first murders was around Hickson in Tennessee. And he was suspected to murder a train conductor. William C. Berman was his name. Berman, he was 56 years old and he was just a normal train conductor. And Holmes actually stole his identity

while running from... Yeah. Yeah, they'd like to dabble in things. That's why... He did everything. Everything. He stole his identity and he like ran from, he ran from Georgia, because they suspected that he had murdered somebody over there as well. And there's no record as to who that person went.

This is like the first kind of recorded murder that there is. And then there's also his mistress that he murdered. She was 31. Not his wife. Not his wife, his mistress. Her name is Julia Smythe. What's her name? Julia?

Yeah, Julia Smythe. Hello? Okay. Julia? Yeah, Julia. Oh, okay. Julia Smith. She was 31 years old. She was also married to a doctor. She had a thing for doctors.

Lawrence Isalis Connor. Guess what his nickname was? Ned. Ned? Ned Rambo! Oh, I was thinking of Flanders. Oh. Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide.

Yeah, so she was married to a man named Ned. But she moved it. They both I think they both moved into Holmes's building. And even worked at the same pharmacy he was at. I believe Julia Smythe was actually working as a. Person selling jewelry, because there was like a jewelry counter that they had. And after. Smites husband found out about her affair with Holmes, he quit and he moved away and he left her with their five year old daughter.

Pearl Connor. Yeah. Wait, is Pearl okay? Yeah, Pearl's okay. Okay. Well, actually, well, Pearl might be okay. So, he left her with their five-year-old daughter Pearl Connor and Smythe eventually she gained custody of Pearl and stayed at the hotel and continued to date Holmes. And on Christmas Eve of 1891, disappeared, completely vanished into the darkness, into the night. And he, Holmes was like claiming that Julia left just randomly to visit her sister, who at the time was dying is what he said. But then later on, he changed his story and said that she fled from her former husband. And then later on, he claims that Julia died

during an abortion. So really, he just switches up. Oh, literally. Yeah. Um. But because of his medical background, it's pretty highly unlikely that he would have actually let her do that. I don't know. That's what they say. Is they... Oh. Controlling.

That's what I'm getting from this. Yeah. He was... He thinks that Julia didn't die from an abortion, which contradicts what he says before, which is weird. And then he claimed to have poisoned Pearl. I'm sorry? Yeah. He got into a poisoned pearl. And then later on, a skeleton

was found only partial. And it it looks like it was possibly to a child that was around Pearl's age. They found it. Why is this man still running around? Yeah. Why'd he poison Pearl? Well the only real motive, and it's not really even motive to me at least is that like the husband that left he was a key witness to the trial that Holmes went through for when he got sued by that company that he declined them pay. He was a key witness. Okay.

Why would you go after his daughter rather than him? Exactly. That's why it's like, yeah, that's why it's like kind of weird that he would go after his daughter instead of him himself. So that's why I'm like, this is really the only motive that there can be. It just doesn't really fully make sense. No, it really doesn't. No.

But they found they found that skeleton in his cellar. So that's like. Really, that that's yeah, I read that and I was so sad. I don't know. You might not know the answer, but. Do you know if I was like so sad. I don't know you might not know the answer but Do you know if I was ever buried? No Like no, it wasn't or you'd know you don't know. No, it wasn't buried. It wasn't buried. Sorry. That wasn't a clear answer

No, I mean like did they bury it once they found it No, like did they give it a burial. Okay. So what did they do with the skeleton? I'm not sure what they did. It doesn't say anything. Oh, it's miss school now. What? It went to a medical school.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, probably. Yeah, probably. I hated how that added up so well. Like I was like, oh, that's probably what happened. Not what I wanted. Yeah. Um, but they, when, when the construction for homes is building was going on, there

was actually a woman that was helping with the construction. Her name was Emilyn Cigran. She was 23 years old. She worked for him for six months. And she was I think she was helping with the construction, but also mainly just his secretary. Because I guess they had a connection to a doctor that had like a vaccine to cure alcoholism during that time. I'm sorry. Yeah, so that's how they connected. I don't know.

But she eventually disappeared as well. And there was like beliefs that they that she and homes were possibly in a relationship. The last time she was seen was in December, 1892, and she told them that she had gotten pregnant that the authorities had figured she got pregnant by homes and that she was a victim of another abortion okay once again why is this man still running around no yeah yeah like i don't know, it doesn't even seem like he tries to keep a low profile or anything. No, he doesn't. He just does shit. But her luggage, her empty luggage at that was found by the police. Where?

At in the home of a Chicago physician. M.G. Chapel was his name. He admitted that he had actually hidden three skeletons for H.H. Holmes. Damn. Yeah. And is this the man behind bars? I doesn't say.

I don't believe so, though. Do you know, like, why he helped? Was he like. Like bribed or coerced or anything, or was it just like, yeah, I'm going to help this dude hide skeletons. I Believe he also kind of was similar to Holmes in the way that they were both like Skeleton articulators, I guess so it wasn't it wasn't like it was No, it was it wasn't like No, it wasn't like he knew that, I don't think he necessarily knew what he was doing.

That they were like murdered. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I see. He was just like, simply like examining the skeletons. I see. In his version of it Like I have a few skeletons to donate or like to sell to this school, but can you keep them in your closet for a while? Yeah Which is really?

Fuck I mean doesn't it make sense knowing that like it was so common to just sell skeletons to like schools. No yeah. Yeah. I don't know. It's like, I don't know. It's so weird that this is like normalized. But there was another possible murder that he committed in early 1893. She was an actress this time. She was a one time actress. Her name was, actress this time. She was a one-time actress. Her name was...

Her name is really... With Elmina Williams, but they call her Minnie. She was 24. Nicknames for people in the olden days are so weird. So weird, yeah. Like how... Like what? Like where did Sally come from?

You know? No, I literally think about that all the time. Fair, fair, yeah. I don't know, Sarah and Sally are completely different. But anyways. But I don't know, maybe they like the name and they pick it themselves. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. I guess so. Yeah But homes claim that they met in an appointment or an employment office and

They actually think that they met in Boston like years earlier before then when he was going by Harry Gordon. Bro was going by a lot of different names, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. So. Bro built his entire life on just being like a scam artist. Is that why you never like saw him?

Because he was just a different person every time? Yeah. He went under so many different aliases. I mean, yeah, I guess you don't have to keep a low profile if you just keep on changing your identity. Yeah, I'm back in the late 1800s. It was easy to do so. Yeah, unfortunately. Yeah. But he offered her a job as his personal, I don't know how do you pronounce this? Type it in, type it in, type it in. The, Spen is Steven, okay, I'm gonna type it in.

Yeah. I think y'all wanna switch it in. I don't know. I've never. Come on, let him spelling be a stenographer. Stenographer. Okay, that's how you say it. See, I was gonna say stenographer. Okay, I've never I've never had to say that word before. Anyways, he wanted her to be his personal stenographer. She accepted. And he actually persuaded her to transfer a deed

to her property in Fort Worth, Texas, to a man named Alexander Bond which is guess what? His fake name. Is another fake name of his. Yep. Let's go. Do you know how many he had? No. I mean at this point already it's probably something like we talked about like five, six

something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was probably like a lot, about a dozen or something. There was, there's, what is it? Anyways, yeah. But April 1893, she transferred the deed and he signed the deed over to Pidazel, that dude that I mentioned earlier who faked his own death but he went under the alias is Benton T Lyman a month afterwards Holmes and Williams were

introducing themselves as husband and wife to rent an apartment in Chicago, Lincoln Park to be exact, and Minnie's younger sister, Anna Williams, she was 18 and they call her Nanny came to visit July 5th, 1893. She wrote to her aunt that she wanted to accompany Brother Harry to Europe. And she signed off with a message Brother Harry Holmes, by the way, says you need to never trouble anymore about me financially or otherwise. He and sister will see to me. I hope our hard days are over.

And they were never seen alive ever again. Of course. Oh yeah. They were just found in a science classroom. Holmes eventually, he actually used Minnie's name in future scams too. What? No way. Like after she was gone? Yeah, after she was gone, she disappeared.

Yeah. Like, yeah. The balls on this thing. God, yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah. The balls on this man. Yeah. Yeah. Um, there was a 68 year old creditor, John De Bruyl. He died of apoplexy. Apoplexy. What's it called? Apoplexy? Yeah, I think so. apoplexy yeah I think that one sounds more right than the first one right Apple Apple Apple and pineapple Apple pen yeah anyways um apoplexy yeah Yeah. Yeah. He actually died in the drug store. April 17th, 1991. Yeah.

But this, he died after Holmes had poured a black liquid down his throat. And this was according to a witness. Huh? Yeah. Do we know what that was? Yes, what happened? No, it doesn't say what the black liquid was, but it does say that in 1895 that the life insurance policy that De Bruyl had was then left over to Holmes after he passed. Wasn't there no autopsies being done at all? No, they didn't suspect any foul play. Wow.

Yeah. So they just closed the case. That's it. There was Emily Van Tassel. She disappeared after working for Holmes at the drugstore. Holmes actually mentioned her in his confession that he made. I've tried to find this confession, by the way, and I've not been able to find one. But in 1897, her name was cited in like a list of victims that homes had taken their lives from.

And they also believe that her mother was a possible victim too. So, not entirely sure what happened with her mother with that one. And there's no real record of anything for that case. And then he had another stenographer, Kitty Kelly. Oh, I like that name. Yeah, Kitty Kelly's cute. It's not with the E and the L and Y though, kind of. Bro, did you just dox my name?

My fault. No, you're fine. I don't care. They know my name. Anyways, Kitty Kelly, she disappeared in 1892. They did not suspect any foul play. So they did not further investigation. And there was John Davis.

He also disappeared and was declared legally dead in 1920, but he disappeared in 1893 after staying in the hotel of Holmes's building. So there's a lot of things that are happening in Holmes's building right now. Is that building still standing? No. I believe it is like torn down. Murder Castle. Find anything when they draw it down homes murder castle i mean to be fair if i were like a like a serial killer i i think calling it my murder castle would be pretty sick what do you mean like i'm just being real i don real. I also think that people wouldn't take it serious because it's in the name. 100%. No. Yeah. It's like when people fucking... I don't get why this comparison came to mind. It's not close in any way whatsoever. But like when like

John Wayne Gacy would like take people to his home and like his neighbors would hear their screams and like they wouldn't care. Because they're just like, Oh, he's a clown. Yeah. That doesn't relate at all. But no, no, no, no, I know what you mean. I know. I'm picking up what you're putting down. I'm not. That's fine. I'm barely picking it up.

So you're good. You're good. OK, murder castle is still here. No, it's not. It's it did. But there a lot of a lot of his victims simply just really disappeared. There's no they the police a lot of them saw no foul play in a lot of these cases. So they never actually investigated and tried to find the correlation between homes and these sudden disappearances, which is, right? You see what I'm thinking about?

I think it's going on for years. Yeah. They found a human hair in the chimney of his building that belonged to Lucy Burbank and And then they just didn't they didn't do anything about it Was Lucy the one that went to Europe or the one that ran away with a five-year-old? neither That was um That was Julia Smythe. So who was Lucy? Lucy is a new girl.

She's, Lucy was just another victim. It was a, she was a, just a regular person. There is no, yeah. She was just another victim. She was just a regular person. Well, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. But like, you know what I'm saying? She- No, I know, I know.

With the other ones, like, you know what I'm saying? She... No, I know. I know. With the other ones, like, at least they worked underneath him, but she was literally just a person living. And then all of a sudden, she disappeared. She wasn't. And her... I wasn't going to say all that, but she disappeared and her hair was found in his chimney that happened in 1895. But he also claimed that he killed two people in Illinois in the 1890s in Lake County. It was confirmed. Does he, will you say that he's claimed that he killed people?

Was that after his arrest or well everything is still happening This was after his arrest so he's making all these claims that he's killed all these people and he claimed that he He killed about 27 people, but he only got charged for one murder Wow, what what what murder did he end up getting charged for? Let me see. It doesn't actually say when I looked it up. It just says that out of all the murders that he claimed and that he confessed to, I actually found his confession to. So I'll be sending that. Yeah, yeah, I found it. I found it. I can't actually read it. I'll send it to you and I'll show you

why I can't actually read it. Oh, it's just handwriting like terrible. It's a newspaper article. It's a part of a newspaper article. Kind of. Okay. Yeah. And is there? Okay. Yeah, we'll figure it out. We'll tell the listeners what we can't, what we can't read it. And it's an old timey cursive. Ah. Sorry, a little too relatable now. What? Sorry, keep going.

You'll find out later. What is it? Wait, what do you mean? What do you mean? Go ahead. Okay. Yeah, I never learned how to write in cursive. I did.

It's hard for me to read it sometimes too. So okay, now I just found it. Okay, so he confessed to 27 murders. Wow, but I just found this his lawyer later admitted that he had actually killed 133 people. Your admitted that? Yes. Is this when we start getting into the hundreds? What was that This is when we start getting into the higher numbers Yeah, so a hundred and thirty three people is the amount of that at least his lawyer claim

See that's so weird to me though. Why would the lawyer say that right like Like I get it you are dealing with like a murderer, blah blah blah, but there's still like... Your client. The confidentiality aspect of it. But then also like... This was after he died, when he admitted. Oh, this was after he died? Okay, I'm sure the lawyer did not care then. No, no, no, no, no. I bet like, I bet Holmes was probably like the proudest of those 27 that he admitted to. But the rest of them he just like didn't really care about.

I don't know. But he was tried in 1895 for, I mentioned Pitazel, his kind of associate. He was tried for Pitazel's murders. Pitazel was a serial killer during that time. He murdered three children. Damn. Yeah. And that was when Holmes made those confessions to those 27 murders. I guess kind of to, I don't know, lessen his sentencing.

What was the sentencing? Oh, he was sentenced to death. That's he. What was that? Yeah, I was gonna say that's it. But then I was like, oh, wait, I was like, oh wait, I was like, I mean, I was like, they can't really do too much more. More.

Yeah, so, so Benjamin Pettisell and then H.H. Holmes. When they were under the trial, they both were well, Holmes was only convicted for one murder. I'm not entirely sure how many charges his partner had, but they went to Moya Mensing Prison in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania and Holmes died in prison. Yeah, he, he was a. How old? That's a good question. It doesn't actually say how old he is.

There we go. He was 34. So pretty young. Oh, that's young, actually. Yeah, pretty young. That's younger than I thought. Just nine days before his birthday. He died May 7th, 1896. Okay. Wow.

Oh, 34 is like not what I was expecting. I was expecting like probably like late 40s. Yeah. Or like early 50s. I mean, I'm glad they caught him early. I mean, yeah, I still think it's a little too late compared to like, oh my god, yes. Oh my god, yes. Also, I found how many aliases he has. Okay. He has nine. So H.H. Holmes. Alexander Bond. And then America's first serial killer. I don't know why this is considered as one. The Beast of Chicago, the Devil in the White City, the Torture Doctor, the Archfiend,

Judson, and Robert E. Phelps. See, but are these all aliases that he gave himself or like things that like people over the years have like known him as? So the Beast of Chicago, Devil in White City, Torture Doctor, Archfiend, were all, and America's first series were all given to him. Alexander Bond, Johnson, Robert E. Phelps, and H. H. Holmes was him naming himself that. Okay. So he did just want some attention by naming himself some of these things. Yeah. He also had four wives. Clara Lovering-ish, they married in 1878. Murda Belknap, 1886. Minnie Williams, 1893.

And then Georgina or Georgiana Yoke, 1894. Just a year after Minnie. Wow. He was sentenced to first degree murder. Death. Why is it so easy for the serial killers to have so many wives? I have no idea, bro. No idea. How charismatic some of them can be,

and like, just like how it sucks, but like how good they are at like, Like creating a personality. Like choosing the right people. Yeah, what you're like like choosing the like vulnerable people. Oh Yeah to do that with Yeah Wow, that's all I have to say after this Wow

Wow. That's all I have to say after this. Wow. And it's interesting that like, like he's considered like the first serial killer, right? But like one of yeah. One of America's. Probably like the like probably like the one of the first documented right? Yeah. The first and that's exactly what I mean. Like, he's, he's not the first. It's just like, I think it's crazy to think about how like, how far back it goes. Like there have been people killing for so long. And there are still people killing to this day. Yeah. And it will continue.

And how the most of them are found in the United States. So yeah, we have a crazy number for that. Our government is like shit. Like what does our society do to make people turn out this way? I don't know. Oh, I'm sorry. Do you actually think that they talk about this? Definitely not.

Do you guys want to know what he said when he got caught? Yes. It's about time. I'm going to end it off with a couple of little fun facts about him. Okay. All right. So this is what he said when he got caught. Quote, I was born with a devil in me.

I could not help the fact that I was a murderer. No more than the poet can help the inspiration to sing. I was born with the evil one, standing as my sponsor beside the bed where I was ushered into the world. And he has been with me since. End quote. Sir, you need help.

Why do so many serial killers think they're so profound? They think they're superior. They're like, yeah. They're like a poet. They're like, I tried to run from who I was, but I truly could never escape it. And that's why I had to murder 25 people and not care about their lives whatsoever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Very profound to say at the very end. Yeah. It's like I'm I am God. I have the devil behind me and he's been leading me on this path

Fucking bitches, honestly Um, you never sent us the the the the newspaper article Yeah Don't leave us hanging I know I almost did we were like where is it I Am saying you were like just kidding You guys could probably read it I can't read it for anything. So if you guys read it but I can make out really good words

file 0 1 8 5 that's what I was gonna say that's not ominous no like this this there's like some things that you definitely read okay I like this question yeah since this is file 1 8 5 what's file 184? It's a mystery. It's the Krabby Patty secret formula. Oh my goodness gracious. Yeah, I can't read this. Yeah, it's like, there's like some things that you can make out and then there's some things that's like, What? I don't know. The something statement of William... I don't know. Mrs. William. Philadelphia. Mrs. William and Mr.... Oh my god, don't even try to read it right now.

Yeah, yeah, I know. This sucks. You definitely gotta, we gotta post this on the Instagram. Yeah, we can read it and then they can put it. We also should post a picture of that curious George puppet. We should, we should. From earlier to show how bad it is. It is, it's just a monkey. Like if you told me it was Curate's George, I'd be like, But it's just a monkey.

I just found this right now. What'd you find? I don't know how true this is. I don't think it's true. But like, I literally just found this right now. They're saying, there's like, oopsies. There's things that say that H.H. Holmes had like a personal diary. And when, and things that he would write in there would suggest that he was actually Jack the Ripper. That like honestly is not surprising to me. I don't think it's true though. It's definitely not true but it's definitely not shocking that he's like oh like I'm Jack the Ripper. Yeah. Yeah.

Can I read to y'all what the letter actually says? Yeah. The following statement was written by me in Philadelphia Co-Prison for the Journal of M.E. as true and accurate confessions in all particulars. It is the only confession of my fearful crimes I have ever made or will make. I will write it fully, appreciating all the horrors it contains, and thus it condensed me before the world, signed H. H. Holmes, April 9th, 1896. Yeah, that actually makes so much sense.

Yeah, it's something he would write. It really is something he would write. Yeah. Do you guys want to know what his last meal was? Yeah. Let me re-create it. Boiled eggs. Toast and coffee.

Hold up, boiled egg, that coffee, spouse toast and coffee. Bro is really Jack the Ripper. I'm glad he had a crappy-ish meal. That's how, that's how British people eat, bro. He really was Jack the Ripper. really was Jack the Ripper. Oh, more you know, apparently his his coffin. He asked for his coffin to be buried 10 feet in concrete. Did it?

Why did he think his body was going to like re-animate? Did he not want someone to take his body out and donate it to his friends? No, literally, that is it. He was afraid that Grave Roberts would steal his body and use it for dissection. Get over yourself. You're not that all important, bro. I'm sorry. How does it feel like to be disturbed from your grave?

Was also strangled to death slowly. He was? H.H. Holmes. He was? Wait, by like another inmate? No, I think this was like his, I think it was, I think his neck didn't break when they were doing, yeah, you know

When they tried oh it was death by hanging. Yes. Oh, okay. Yeah interesting That makes sense they probably like didn't tie the knot properly in it yeah, yeah, so they just strangled him instead Anyways No, like cuz when you hang someone Yeah, so they just strangled him instead? Anyways, um... No, like, cause when you hang someone... Like, it's supposed to break their neck, that's how a hang is supposed to kill you, but... Yeah. But he just, like, dangled there. Yeah.

It's crazy. Probably better, honestly. Yeah, which, as much as that sucks, um, it's the least that could probably better honestly. Yeah, which as much as that sucks It's the least that could happen to him Yeah so Thank you. That Thank thank you crazy that he commits confessed to 27 murders and only got charged for one, but you know

Gotta do what you gotta do. Yes. I don't know. Yeah. You did. You did die in prison. So. Yeah.

I guess we got that. Anyways, thank you for listening to the story of H H Holmes. Thank you, Alex homeboy for suggesting it. What the hell. It is a big case. There is a lot. No, and there's like, there's honestly more that I could say that it's not really necessarily relevant, but there's a lot more that I could say. So yeah, I'd like you mean like it's well documented? Yeah. Yeah. Well, kind of. Yeah. Do you know that the most recent like, execution by guillotine was in 1977? I am. What?

We're like, in France. Wait, why do I feel like so recent, like too recent? As it is. It is really recent. I don't know. I don't know. Just like hearing how he was hanged just, I don't know, made me think of guillotine death.

Yeah, no, because that was less than 50 years ago when that person got guillotined. Yeah. Wow. Damn, dude. Wow. What? The more you What? How do you know that? September 10th, 1977. I don't know. I learned it like years ago and it's just been like stored away ever since. This is what Kai says when they say, tell me a fun fact. Literally. Yeah. I carried out the last, I mean the last death by guillotine happened in 1937.

Oh, oh, oh. Oh. Yeah. Anyway, H.H. Holmes. Yeah, H.H. Holmes, weird dude. Anyways. Thanks for the suggestion Alex yeah thank you real homeboy for that we want to thank the support more suggestions please no

seriously we got a we got a website chambers of the appalt.com go to our contact page comment on our Instagram let us know We got one of those too. We also got a Facebook and a Tiki Taki and then we got YouTube. Do we have a Tiki Taki? We have a Tiki Taki. You have to start posting. Let us know what you want to see there. If not, you're going to get to see whatever we want to see. Let us know what like games you want us to play or what content you want us to make. Let me know what you want me to record of them too. Or let us know if you want us to record Alexis. Or just let us know if you want an Alexis-only podcast one day.

Oh my god. And I won't even be here. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe you're a day off. Maybe you like to fly or something. Anyways, I don't know. Maybe you're a D.O.F. or something. Anyways, I am the best one on this podcast. Someone told me that pretty recently. Oh, was it your mom? I'm not even joking. Someone did tell me that.

I don't... Thank you, but I think it's all three of us. We the best. Music. Shut up. Okay, anyways, take it away, Jay. So you know how your case was quite a while ago? Oh, yeah. And like you covered a serial killer. Yeah, I did. Okay, I'm covering a paranormal story. Oh my god, no way. That's crazy. Of a serial killer? What? Is it my serial killer? That was encrypted? What? I know, I know. Like, so... It's like all of the above right now. I know. Because, okay, so this is known as the Beast of Jeboudon. And this is a cryptid from, cryptid from France.

Oh my god, Francais. So we're going off, we're going. Out to France. OK, yes, you know, speaking of France just earlier. Yeah, you did. That's why I was like, oh my God, like you're setting me up for my story. Yeah.

So this place in the 1960s. Sorry, not the 1960s, the 1760s. Oh, OK. Yeah, they definitely were still doing executions by guillotine. Yeah, widowing. Oh, they were doing that and much, much more. Okay. Okay, so I have for you, because Géboudon, it's a place in France, obviously. But I want to show you where it is in the map. Okay. So, where's the map?

Well, well, where's the map? Where's the map? Where's the map? Where's the map? Where's the map? Thank you. Thank you, Kai. I'm the map.

I'm the map. I'm surprised that's the one you remember. Well it's because there's like two words. That's true. Okay here it is, I just entered two. Swiper nose, swipey. And that's Jevoudon. And it's south of France.

You're about to say south of Toulouse. No, no it's north of Toulouse. No, no, it's North of Toulouse. It's not, it's New York. Yeah, because I decided to cover this because I was like, oh, France. You just went there. Yeah, I was there. Gervaudan? Not Gervaudan, but Toulouse.

There's no cryptids in Toulouse. So this was the closest I could get. There's a lot of violet wine. Yeah. So in 1960s, why am I saying 19? In 1760s, the Jeboudon region is, it's a remote region. It's a harsh environment, harsh. And it's a seriously populated area in the south of France. And it's known for its thick woodlands and challenging

living conditions. Now, I just, because it's the nine, 17, wow, 1760s, I'm going to give you just a brief background on the economic and social background. Yeah, because the 1760s was a period that was marked by severe economic disparity. So, of course, you have monarchy and all that stuff and then the common class peasants. There was ongoing wars and there was frequent outbreaks of plagues and other diseases. So the first encounter on record, and I am saying because there's a lot, this is really well documented for a cryptid. Damn. Okay.

It's especially for the 1700s. Yeah, I know. No, that's, that's really good. So there's a document that basically has every single communication between the official record with the beast in it, but it's about 600 pages. Damn. Yeah. Like, it's really well documented. And you'll find out why.

But also it's in French, so it's also French from the 1700s. So I'm not trying that French at all. So in 1764 is when we have the first encounter. The first initial attack of the Beast of Jeboudon, there's a young woman from Longonia. It's a small town in the northern border between Jeboudant and Oksetani. And she was attacked by a large animal while tending to her grazing cattle. So you're just taking care of your cattle. A large animal, okay. A large animal comes to attack you.

Fortunately for her, the bulls and the herd drove it away, saving her. Oh, hell yeah. Hell yeah. Now there was like some theories saying that they didn't actually try, like the herd didn't try to save her. They were just trying to protect the younger cattle. Oh, you know, she was like a bystander that got saved because they were trying to save the younger cattle.

Yeah. But she described the attacker as a monstrous animal, but her account was initially dismissed as hysteria. Oh. Yeah. Like they did for everything of women back then. Yeah, literally. Because the initial description was that the animal is much higher than a wolf.

And his feet and arms were armed with talents. His hair is reddish and his head is large and this kind of sounds like a large long mane and the muzzle and the muzzle muzzle of it muzzle of it shaped like a greyhound okay it was like a big dog wolf yeah human thingy yeah so this was an early June and then in July 1st of the same year there's another attack. Now, what was this one? His name is John Boulay.

Jean Boulay. She was a 14 year old girl from a village of Hubach and she was killed by the beast. Oh yeah. So this is the first fatal attack. Got it. And the reason why there's so many records is because the parish recorded notes of her burial without her final sacraments. So the church is what the records are from the church. Got it. Okay. Yeah, I was about to ask like how is it how they document it like from that point. So the church did a lot of documentation. Yeah, it really was. Now that was in July 1st and in August there's three encounters with the beast. So from August, so it's from August to September.

So between those months there's three attacks. Me? Yeah. So August 25th a 15 year old boy was killed by the beast. Oh my god. Yeah. Poor kid. September 1st, another 15 year old boy was attacked and killed. Damn, that thing hates 15 year old boys. No, for real. And then September 6 is when Mary Ann, a 36 year old woman, was killed at the entrance to her village.

And that's what led to heightened awareness and fear. Yeah, yeah, I would be, I would be fearful. Yeah. So at this point, there's a total of five attacks. Yeah. And only one survivor, the first one because of the cattle. Everyone else has been killed by this beast. Oh my God. This is crazy. And this is just, this has started, this just started in June. So on September 21st, they actually killed a wolf. A local shepherd

killed a wolf, but it was uncertain whether this was the beast. And the parish priest noted the ambiguity when they killed the wolf. So once again they were not sure if it was a wolf or not because technically, while wolves were common, they're not really found near people and they tend to keep their distance. Yeah. Yeah. So there was a wolf killed on September 21st and in October of the same year, multiple attacks were recorded, including one where three young children defended themselves with makeshift spears. Oh, let's go. Okay.

So, these three kids were attacked but they were able to defend themselves. Yeah, okay. I see them. Yeah. And at this point, local hunts were being organized, but the beasts continued its attacks and it was evading capture. Yeah, beasts. Now, this is also when King Louis XV was in charge and the king ordered the peasants to join the hunts

alongside the Hummel and any who disobeyed would be punished by the court. Wow. So, yeah. Also, he also had, how do I say this? So he sent a professional wolf hunter, the king. At that time, the king had his own personal wolf hunter So that was a title that was a job you could have Yeah Yeah, I had one

You're the ghost you're the the the the monster hunter Yeah, I'm the wolf hunter. I know a lot about me And the other one is gay. Yeah. And the name of the wolf hunter was John Charles Mark Antony. That is my name.

Yeah. Continue. John Charles Mark Ant name. Yeah. Continue. John Charles Mark Anthony? Yeah. That goes crazy. John Charles Mark Anthony. He's got four first names. He's dressed like you already. So now from April to September, the hunters attempt to track and kill the beast, but ultimately they fail despite employing a large number of hunted parties. And there was a reward for this beast. There was a reward

if you like killed him, you would have to pay. What was the reward? Your wage for a year, pretty much. Whatever you would earn in a year, that's pretty much what they paid you. Oh, that's pretty nice what they paid you. Oh! That's pretty nice for that time, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. True. That's pretty good.

Now, in November 5th, once again, the same year, this is all happening with the same year. The military got involved. Oh, calling the big boys. Captain the Hamel, the one that King Louis XV was saying to work with. So it was Captain the Hamel and 56 troops arrived in St. Clay with 17 on horseback to assist the hunting of the beast. How many people? Were like involved. So there was actually lots of hunting parties because people like the king was offering

like a full year's wage. A lot of people decided to go hunting. What was difficult though is that during this time guns were reserved for like royalty and like upper class. So everyone else didn't have guns. Oh. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. See, you can see it again. Not good when you're like hunting for a beast. Yeah. I actually don't know if the king's personal hunter had his own gun or not because he was the king's but

I he was good at killing wolves. Yeah I I I think honestly if like how sick would it be to be a monster hunter? That's your job. That's your title. If that was still a thing, I'd be a monster hunter. I don't know. That would be so sick. Like the Witcher.

Yeah, it would be. I was thinking of that too. Now, it would be in November 16th that there was a newspaper report. And the courier, De'Avignon, published a story with an illustration based on eyewitness testimony describing the beast and its attacks. So I'll be sending you the picture of the beast. Here you go. I'll be sending you the picture of the beast. Here you go.

Bruh. Oh, my God. Dude, he's so scary. Oh, my God. Know what he kind of looks like? What? Uh-huh. Dude, I don't know.

He looks like a dog mixed with like a freaking Loch Ness monster kind of mouth. I don't know. Wait, hear me out. Hear me out. Okay. Especially you, Alexis. Oh yeah. Zoom in on his face a bit, right?

Right? Yeah, that's what I'm doing. That's what I'm doing. Does he, Alexis. Okay. Oh yeah. Zoom in on his face a bit, right? Right? Yeah, that's what I'm doing. That's what I'm doing. Does he not kind of look like Josh Hutcherson? Oh my god. I love Josh Hutcherson. No, no, I'm being, no, I'm not even just bringing it up because I like, I'm being dead serious.

Like, like the eyes, the like square-ish face. The... This is Josh Hutcherson's spirit. I'm getting the Monty Python vibes. You know what? We're gonna put like this on our Instagram, like, story, and we're gonna put the picture of the beast next to Josh Hutcherson. And we're gonna have to vote whether it looks like him or not. We have to tag Josh Hutcherson in it too. Yes, he's, yeah.

This is Josh Hutchersonerson but reincarnated as a wolf monster this is this is no no you mean the wolf monster was reincarnated as josh hutcherson yeah yeah yeah my fault my fault yeah mixed with jeff the mongoose not really yeah like if jeff the mongoose was a big animal yeah then he was josh hutcherson the mongus was a big animal. Yeah. And he was Josh Hutcherson. I love Josh Hutcherson. He's my favorite. Okay. Sorry I never brought him up. No, no, you're good. I love that. Yeah, we should bring him up. It's been a while since we brought him up, so thank you, Kai. I know, because you guys hate when I talk about Josh Hutcherson for some reason, even though... You haven't brought him up until Kai did, so.

Yeah. You were lagging. Okay, so this was all happening. This all started in 1764, and now we're going to January of 1765, so just the year after. Okay. So despite the report with the picture that I just sent you,

and wolves getting killed and people claiming that they had killed the beast, the attacks continued. Damn, killed those wolves for no reason. Now, in February, it's when... Um... No, not February. What is it? Okay, it's on... I'll get there. So, we're still in February. Um...

Now, this is where another attack happens. February 12th, Jack, poor Fox, poor Fix, and seven of his friends were attacked by the beast. Damn! Yeah. So, at this point, the beast is not going for just single people. Like if it's a small group, the beast seems to go for them. I don't know. It can.

They did survive. And I don't know, because they survived. King Louis XV rewarded them for their bravery. OK, like for being these monster hunters? Yeah. No, no, just because they survived an attack. Oh, I mean, you know what, considering that there was only one survivor,

I guess they earned that award, yeah. And the kids also survived. Alexis, you should get that reward for growing up where you did. For way to way. You should. I grew up with wolves, bruh. Lelele, the two gay ones inside of you.

Yeah, and they both made out with each other. You gotta use them. Oh. What? What? Did you? So much just happened in like the past two seconds. Yeah. I know. I know.

Anyway, let's go to spring of 1765. So a lot of people have been killed. Yeah. And the numbers rose to 56 holy yeah and the official record fuck Christmas nuts what she said holy Christmas nuts or some shit like that or what yeah wow anyways continue yeah so the number rose to 56 and the official records noted that noted the beast profilic profilic attacks so yeah this is all like in records because the church was keeping records of who was killed, who was buried, and things like that.

Yeah. And then it would be on September 21st of 1765 that... Do you remember the Beast Hunter's name? John Charles Mark Anthony. Yep. John Charles Mark Anthony. He, John Charles Mark Anthony. He claimed that he killed the beast. Oh, okay. So he brought over the animal, the animal was larger than a typical wolf.

And he was paraded in Paris. Oh, like the corpse. Oh, oh the corpse. Oh, oh, okay. And then the king had the corpse of the animal for display. Oh, oh. Until it started to smell and then they got rid of the body. Oh, well, yeah. Yeah.

Now, unfortunately, this was not the beast because people kept getting killed. And because the King didn't want to say that he was wrong, he kind of stopped helping people. Damn. He was just a little too embarrassed, man. I mean, it's not like the King was wrong. But like, Frank Anthony. Whoa, John Charles Mark Anthony. Yeah, there we go. He technically didn't kill the beast. Because despite the claims that tax continued through 1766, resulting in 20 additional deaths and 18 non-fatal attacks.

Damn bro. So that's like what 70 something? Like 80 something people have seen. Some have survived and some have died by these, these stuff. Je vous dante. Yeah. It's like, it's like in Twilight, how like they were hunting, like they thought it was like a bear or something in the woods, but it actually just turned out to

be the vampires. Yeah. Yeah. It's the skin of a killer, Bella. So, of course, despite this, the police and the police for help in the region, they were just ignored due to political concerns. And the summer of 1767, one of the local hunters, John Chastel, used bullets blessed by the local clergy and reportedly killed another beast. Bro, all these animals are dying for like no reason, bro. Yes. Now, this animal was described with the distinctive features and found to contain human remains in its stomach. Oh, what? Yeah. So so this is when it's kind of like, wait, did you actually kill it?

Because yeah, it came to hunting. There's so many rumors surrounding this beast. Some some of the hunters that that they shot it and that the bullets didn't like hurt it at all. Like, they wouldn't like they wouldn't pierce the beast. So whatever. And some hunters would say that even when they killed him he would rise from the dead Yeah, just like me for real So We're like a really well documented one. It's so weird rare like

Like it's a cryptid that has so much documentation. No, literally, yeah. So much is still unknown. By the way, this bullets that were blessed, there were silver bullets. Oh. Okay. Yeah, because like you need those to kill the werewolves and shit. Yeah, and they think that it was only because there were silver bullets that they were finally able to like pierce the animal and like know it. But in 1769, it's also the end of the attacks. After this local hunter reported killing it. So, 1766 was when they reported that they killed the beast.

17, it started in 1764 and it ended in 1767. Yes, 1767. Okay. So it was three years that France was being tormented by this beast. This beast. Yeah. Our ants was being tormented by this beast. This beast. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm gonna give you some numbers because it's higher than you think. Okay. I was a mathematician in the past. Because the beast had killed over 113 people. Oh, god damn. In three years. 113. Yeah, no, that's crazy.

What the hell? Yeah. So that's about three people per month. Damn, dude. I mean, it needed to eat eat probably like feed I guess. Now this are not the full numbers because a hundred and thirty were killed. Oh but there was also in addition to that 49 survivors who were injured. Yeah I was gonna say there's survivors too huh yeah. and other than that there was 94 94 separate bodies that were found partially eaten damn what the hell so at this point we're like in the mid-200s

wow people that have had encounters and after got killed by this. So the exact number is really unknown, but it's believed that it was over 300 people. Gee willikers, brother. 100% a vampire. Yeah, wait a minute. So now that you mention that, there is a few theories. Stop, no way. Okay. Of what this beast actually was. Okay, okay. So, like the first theory that people were thinking it said it was a wolf, but wolves don't actually prey on humans and they tend to run away. So that one is kind of already like not a valid theory. Yeah, my homeboys would never.

Another theory was that the wolf had rabies and that's why it was attacking humans But animals with rabies tend to die pretty soon And this animal kept attacking for three years. Yeah, and The survivors didn't have rabies so And the survivors didn't have rabies. So that also- Oh, true. Yeah. So that's like, once again, big X. Yeah, debunked. Boom.

Um, another theory is that maybe it was the big bad wolf. Oh no. And by big bad wolf, I mean like a werewolf. Oh no. And by big bad wolf I mean like a werewolf. Oh no. I need to build my brick house. Yeah, yeah. No, but the theory was that it was maybe a werewolf and that's why it was only able to

be killed with silver bullets. This could be where the origin of silver bullets could have come from. Yeah. But that was a theory. Perhaps it was a werewolf. Another theory was that it was a direwolf. A werewolf. Direwolves were real wolves and they existed back in the Ice Age. Ah. Yeah. And they were like, I think a Dire Wolf, They were huge. The best way to describe it would be to describe maybe the ones from Twilight. Honestly?

Honestly, like how big they are. Yeah, they are big. Yeah. Yeah. But this is just a theory and it's not really plausible because Dire Wolves were found in North America and this was in France. Oh, oh yeah. Yes.

But once again, this is a bit no. debunked. debunked. Press the button. Your local conspiracy theories. The other theory is that go ahead. I don't want to cut you off. But that's a great. That's a great suggestion for an episode, but we just go through and try to. Yeah, like, just go through and try to debunk unsolved mysteries or paranormal cases or stuff like that. So listeners, if you have suggestions for an episode like that, let us know. That would be great. That would be fun. That would actually be fun, just trying to debunk stuff for a whole episode Like a full like one case that all three of us cover and we go in depth debunking them like debunking it Yeah, like some of our bigger cases we could like go back and yeah

That'd be cool. Yeah, because some other cases really do have quite a bit of theories. Yeah Now another one here is that it was a hound hybrid Now, another one here is that it was a hound hybrid. Oh. And that it was a dog crossed with a wolf. I love wolf hounds. And they said because it was a dog crossed with a wolf, the dog part would not necessarily be afraid to be near humans compared to just typical wolves. Once again, there's not really like a theory about it.

I do love this one. So, another theory is that this is the circus theory. A circus? Yes. Because some people thought that it was a hyena that had escaped the circus. I love hyenas, bruh. Oh my god. Wait, that picture, the drawing, it kind of looks like a hyena. No, no, yeah, exactly, yes. But I was like, oh wait.

That actually kind of like, the mouth is very hyena-like. Like, hyena-typey. The shape of the body? Yeah. Oh, yes. Now, during this time, it was very, very, very common for royals to have their own personal zoos. So, perhaps one of the royals or like someone very higher up had a private zoo with like a hyena or like a

a coyote or something like that yeah and then the hyena like escaped however there was no animal there were no records of animals missing from like private zoos from royalty. Oh yeah. Damn. Now, yeah, pretty much. And also hyenas don't really tend to go hunting. They kind of just, they're scavengers. Yeah. So that one also debunks it just because of the nature of hyenas. I guess I'm disappointed.

It's like you wanted a hyena. A hyena makes the most sense. Like it's actually, I would have believed it. Uh huh. For sure. I mean it was plausible until like you started being like, oh well. I mean I generally don't think a royal would have reported an animal missing. It's like, Oh, sir, your hyena went missing. Whatever I can get a new one. Yeah, they don't care. They would not.

Yeah, like, why would they report it? Yeah, another theory is that it was the most dangerous animal of all. It was a person. Oh my god. So it's a theory is that it was a serial killer wearing pelts to make him look like a wolf or like a animal. But once again, there's not really proof of this. And there was survivors who got like a closer look and you know, there was quite a large amount of survivors so it's just another theory out there now there is a more likely theory that could be what it was and it's not too far off from the hyena so we'll see how you feel about this one okay okay okay So, the most likely culprit is a lion. A lion?

But not just any lion. A juvenile male lion. Oh, I thought you were going to say the lion king. No. Because he died, remember? The younger lions don't develop a mane until they're two to three years of age. That is true. And they also have a reddish tin coat and a dark line of fur running down their back.

And their huge paws have like sharp like talon claws when like they pull them out. And they're able to put themselves on their back legs and they can move and jump long distances very swiftly. In addition to that, when lions hunt, they attack their prey on their head or their throat. And a lot of victims, a lot of bodies were unfortunately attacked in their head or their throat. Yeah, that makes no sense. bodies were unfortunately attacked in their head or their bones. I assume. Yeah, that makes no sense. But like, would the lion have just have been from the circus also?

That's what I was going to say. It would have been from like a private zoo. A private zoo. And once again, it just escaped and because the lion was not in its usual habitat, it went for the closest thing to its Pupicle prey which have been small children Now I'm gonna send you a picture of what those like juvenile lions look like before they get their mane and then you can compare it to the picture

get their mane and then you can compare it to the picture. Because like, I guess it makes sense because it was either like the victims were like young boys, like young children, or they're like old ladies. Yeah. So, something that like a baby lion could easily overpower. So if you take a look at the pictures you're going to see the resemblance between the beast and the lion. Not too far off. Not too far off.

I guess I could understand it. It's plausible. Now, Ty, I'm going to give you a little bit of hope. Okay. There is one type of hyena that does go hunting. Okay, I'm in. That was a little bit of hope because now I'm going to rush it. Because those are actually striped hyenas. And no one reported this beast to have stripes on it.

Well, what if it was just like really dirty? And no one reported this beast to have stripes on it Well, what if it was just like really dirty There Yeah, I Think it is a coyote and a hyena and a lure a lion mixed all hyena and a lion mixed all together. Have you seen those videos of the dude with like the like wild coyote that like always talks to them? Yeah. But like they've like become friends at this point? Yeah, I've seen those videos. I love those videos. I've also sent you a picture of that striped hyena and it doesn't really look anything like that picture as well. Oh. Yeah. Sorry Kai. That's what striped hyenas look like? Yeah. The hell? That's so weird. They look underdeveloped.

Yeah they are, Brad. Those are not scavengers, those are hunters. Okay. I like spotted hyenas, Brad. And to this day, there's a lot of talk and disagreement on what the Beast of Jeboudon actually was. But that is the Beast of Jeboudon, the most well-documented cryptid in France. Wow. Thank you. Thank you very much. Why do hyenas look like that? Yeah, they do. They're proud. Brown hyenas are like the most normal looking ones.

I think they're the... I was gonna say, I think you call them normal because... Well, brown hyenas kind of look sick actually. Yeah, exactly. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I'm just gathering them so we won't go hunting after people. But yeah. I know, I know.

I'm just... I love coyotes. I didn't realize how close coyotes look to dogs until like recently. Yeah. I didn't realize how close coyotes look to dogs until like recently. Yeah, I A while ago a couple years ago. I was going on a drive somewhere and It was like a forest area And I was like the first time that I saw like a coyote and I was just so excited. I was like, oh my god Yeah, I like I wasn't I always imagine them being like, oh my god. Oh, yeah, I like them.

I always imagine them being like a little smaller and more more fox like than dog like. Well, they're so kind of their ears. Their ears are pretty like simulator foxes, but their facial features are like are very dog like dog like, yeah, like their build also. Yeah, their build ised as very dogs. Just like a slim dog. There's some, there's some coyotes bias by where I live. Really? I wanted a fox so badly when I was younger. Say, I still kind of do because I still do. Yeah, because I feel fox are the perfect mix between a dog and a cat. A cat and a dog! Yes!

Yes! And I love their laughs. Their laughs is amazing. Their laughs are so cute. Like, they're furry enough to be a cat, but they also have the zoomies like dogs do, and they have a wonderful laugh. They're so cute. So, you know, if foxes were illegal pets in California. If they were legal here, yeah. I would have my phone.

Illegal or not. I'm illegal. I'm illegal. Oh. I'm illegal. Is this a brown fox? No, this is a- It's a fox! It's a fox! I love them!

I love folks! What was it? Latina Yoshi? No, Mexican Yoshi, Cuban Mario, and Dominican Luigi. Oh my god. Wait, we need to send that to Jay. Please do, because I don't know what it is, but I am concerned and excited. You guys ever seen a Mexican Yoshi before?

Listeners, please tell us if you know what we're talking about If not, you can literally like reach out to us and we will send you the link into that video Or yeah, Mexican Yoshi Cuban Mario Dominican Luigi Luigi. Oh my gosh. I love how they're all in that hashtag. Okay, I'm gonna mute myself real quick. Got it. I'm illegal. I'm illegal. Bro. This is pure gold, bro.

So good. I'm gonna be Mexican Yoshi for Halloween. And one of the comments is like, Damn, Mexican Yoshi fine as hell. Or some shit like that. Who found this? Me. My god god.

That's great, but at the same time, I would love to play one of those. Yeah, that's what we should do for Halloween. Oh my, honestly. Can we? Show up to a costume party like this? Oh, we create the video. You know, we could do that for TikTok. Okay, sounds good.

On to the next. No. To the next what, Alexis? It doesn't matter. On to the next. On to the next. Take it away. Alrighty.

Well, I mean, I guess today, so I'm not going to be talking about a true crime case or a paranormal story or even like, I'm not going to be talking about a cryptid or anything not quite fully human at all. In fact, what I'm talking about today isn't even alive. At least like not in the way that like humans are. Can you tell us a lot of things? What? I wanna blur it out, but I might be wrong or I might be right.

Oh, the Voynich manuscript. Oh, what the fuck? That's not, I was gonna say you're say that was a conspiracy theory, but OK. No. What is we can get more into those later on. I don't know. The Voynich manuscript, something I just learned about. And it's actually known as the world's most mysterious book. So mysterious.

So today I'm going to be talking about a book, a manuscript. So what the Voynich manuscript is, it's a like an illustrated codex, a handwritten book. It's written in an unknown script, an unknown language that to this day, everybody who has ever researched it does not know what it means. There is no translation for what the code or the cryptography on it does actually mean. And there are people still trying to figure out still to this day. That's the way it is. The language is called, or it was named Voynichese because people are really bad at coming up with names, I guess.

Literally. people are really bad at coming up with names, I guess. But yeah, it's such an old book that like the paper is not actually even paper. It's vellum, which is like dried like animal skin. Oh, I have. So it's a book. And so the pages of it have been radiocarbon dated back to the early 15th century. Specifically around 1404 to 1438. Damn! This is a 600 year old book.

Wait, okay, keep going because I'm sure you're gonna answer my questions. Wait, what? Well, what do you have that? No, I was just gonna ask where it was found. Okay, so the oranges of it are like very mixed. There was not. It's kind of bounced around all over the place. So based off of the analysis of like the carbon dating, the style of the writings and the drawings inside of the book, they do indicate that the manuscript originally was composed in like the European Alps region, specifically somewhere around like the French Italian Alps area, maybe going closer like south towards like Germany and other areas of Europe. But in all the search of those areas, there is no other like late middle age manuscript out there that matches or comes close to any of the collection of the contents drawings or the the the writing that is found in the Voynich manuscript so it truly is like a one-of-a-kind piece of

writing that people are dumbfounded by still today. Damn. I would as well. I mean, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I am. Yeah. So, okay. So what the, the history of like the ownership of the manuscript and how it's come down throughout the years is of course very scattered at times and filled with lots of gaps. So it was written sometime in the early 1400s, but really the earliest ownership that is recorded of the book is back sometime in the So the early 1500s, it was believed that the codex, it belonged to Emperor Rudolph II of Germany. He was the Holy Roman Emperor of thats from a man named John Dee. He was an English astrologer who lived from 1527 to 1608.

So that is actually the earliest recording of when this book was owned. 1527. Damn! Okay. I can't wrap my mind around that year. Yeah, literally. Like people existed back during that time? Oh, for real?

That's insane. That's insane. Sometimes it's hard to believe people lived 150 years ago. But people living five, six hundred years ago is like... I don't know. I think about that kind of time. It's mind boggling. It literally is. So Emperor Rudolf, the second of Germany, he originally, along with John Dee, they kind of believe that it was the work of a man named Roger Bacon. Roger Bacon. I love Bacon. Roger Bacon, apparently he had written a bunch of other manuscripts, but the Voynich manuscript really was nothing like any of those. So it went

from the astrologer John Dee, then it went to Emperor Rudolf II of Germany from about 1576 to 1612. And then it was, seemingly Emperor Rudolf, he gave the manuscript to a man named Jacobus Horkiki the Penex around 1622. And so the reason why that's known is because there's a inscription inside of the book, uh, towards the start, that's only visible with ultraviolet light on it. Yeah. So like it's not even fully in the book anymore. The only way is to shine the ultraviolet light to see the soft indentation of Jacobi de Jacobi de Pippin X. Which is insane, like that's how old it is. So owned by Jacobus, then eventually a man named George Beresque in 1662. Somewhere around there he did pass away in 1662. But there was another man who owned it. After that, Johann Marcus Marcy of Cronland, he owned it for a bit around 1595 to 1667. He presented the book to a man named Athanasius Kircher. That's kind of a sick name. In 1666. So 1666, and that was, it had somehow managed to make itself closer to like Rome. I do believe that was a Roman man, not entirely too sure.

But after 1666, the Collegio Romano, so the Roman college, was in ownership of the book for a while. After that, it was then passed on to Jesuit College at Villa Mandrake-None. And after that, in 1912, it was acquired by a man named Wilfrid M. Voynich, who did purchase the manuscript. Wilfrid M. Warnett, yeah. And real quick, like, these people are not dying because they own it, right? No, no, they're not. It's not like a horror movie, like, you own it, you die.

No. Just wanted to get that clear. No, definitely not. At least not that I. No, definitely not. At least not that I know of, I guess. So yeah, Wilfred M. Voynich, he was really the most known owner of this book. Obviously, the book is named after him, the Voynich manuscript. He of course did not write it himself, but Voynich was a purveyor of old timey books. He had a big collection.

He was a tradesman, a seller of old manuscripts, books. So this was perhaps one of his most prized possessions because of just how mysterious and unsolved it was. Yeah. Yeah. I'd be pretty proud of Covenant. So it was then inherited by Ethel Voynich in 1931 after Wilfred passed away. So I do believe that was his daughter.

daughter? Ethel. Kyle? Ethel? Or sorry, no, his, his wife, his, his widowed wife. Wife. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So- Yeah, you don't want to confuse the daughter with the wife. Definitely not. Yeah. I don't know if they had any children. confuse the daughter with the wife?

Definitely not. Yeah. I don't know if they had any children. The so Ethel was in ownership of it for a while. And then in 1969, it was sold to and acquired by the Benaki Library by H.P. Krauss. So it's the, I think I'm saying that right, B-E-I-N-E-C-K-E. I've been saying Benaki. It's the Benaki Rare Book and Manuscript Library. And so they've been in ownership really since that time. Guess where it is?

What? Guess where that library is? Wait, where? It's in New Haven, Connecticut. Wait, is it really? Yeah. What? I actually didn't know that. There's a whole lot of stuff going on today.

The more you know. That's really cool, actually. Yeah, it's in New Haven, Connecticut. That's awesome. I didn't know. I don't know. I didn't feel the need to look it up, like, where the library was. But I guess I should have. It's cool.

I mean, what the amount of hands that's been changed, like it's been going through, I probably wouldn't have looked it up either. Yeah, like the name and then the location came up and so I was like, oh cool. Um, so yeah, that's just a bit of the history of the book. So it has a long, drawn out, confusing history that stems all the way from the early 1400s, which I just think is insane. But the reason why it's the most mysterious, the world's most mysterious book is just because of how it has been so encrypted over the years. People from from all over, all different sorts of people have studied this over the years. So it definitely it lacks the translation and the context needed to,

you know, properly actually decipher whether it is like a natural language, a constructed language, a cipher, a form of cryptography, or if there's some type of code worked inside, it's still not even fully known if it really is a real work of literature. Like, it could be completely fictitious. It could may end up that it doesn't mean anything whatsoever. That would be crazy. Could you imagine a book that literally meant nothing? It's all just gibberish and then all of a sudden it became like the most mysterious and famous thing in the world or whatever. But I also feel like that's a lot of work to make a book, especially back in that time. Yeah. Okay, the thing is also be the biggest prank ever. It's funny that you bring up gibberish. Because it's funny that you bring up gibberish because, like, they of course

tried to study it for that. They're like, what if this just does not mean anything? And the reason why there has been such continued research onto this and there's such a strong belief that it does mean something is because when, like, compared with gibberish, it is completely unidentifiable because the point of gibberish is that you're covering up real words that actually exist. So if you're writing in gibberish, you have something subconsciously that you're writing it about, which means the patterns of that show up in the text that you're writing, even if it is gibberish. But they can't like, they don't understand anything that is being written or is written

on these pages of the manuscript. And so that's why it's so strongly believed with all the work put into it as well, that it truly does mean something. And that's why there's been so much research on it. I feel like people dedicated to studying things like this are fascinated by this book. Yeah. No, yeah, it's insane. So the manuscript consists of about 240 pages that are all filled, but there is evidence that some of the pages are missing from over the years. Also, the text is very clearly written from left to right and from top to bottom. So it is in a like in our modern times, it's an eligible form of writing. So it's not completely just crudely put in there. It is actually a very, very nice writing. Exactly.

So the thing is also the manuscript does actually appear to be written by more than one and up to five different hands in the book. So there are slight differences in the language as it does continue, even though the writing is always very concise and very nice going through the book. Nothing is out of place, nothing is scribbled in or badly written, and it is all very organized. Good penmanship, yes. But actually going through the book, the language isn't fully consistent. It shows a bit of like slight differences in words and the different like labels and things as it does go. So it actually shows that there was a bit of language drift as the book went on. So it was probably written over a period of time, rather than all

really at once, which does also contribute to more than one person writing it and it being something that was fully understood by those people. Yeah, because if multiple people wrote in it, they knew what they were writing. Yeah. Oh, geez. So, you know, the words, lines, paragraphs of it are very clearly displayed. The style and the layout of the text does change depending on the section of the book that they're in. It surrounds the drawings that are used throughout. So the drawings that are on a page help define the tone of the

text that's written, which is another interesting thing about it. But also it was a very text based book. There's no, the book was entirely blank spaces, which meant that it gave them all the space they needed to be able to write and then the pictures would be drawn around them. So all of those, the words that are in the book are very intentionally crafted. And actually, all throughout the book, there are very, very little changes. So there is rarely ever times when the words in there are actually messed up, like they're not scribbled out, they're not drawn over like they're not scribbled out, they're not drawn over, or tried to be erased. So it was very carefully written. Do you? I want love.

I'm like loving it. I mean, there's so many questions, but there's very little answers. Yeah. Yeah. There's no form of punctuation used in the writing. used in the writing. I don't know if there's vowels or consonants. There's... but a lot of the words seem to recur throughout the text, showing that like different themes are reinstated or the language or like the encryption technique used is consistent and constant throughout. So that's why there are different methods of looking at it. Like some people study it through a humanitarian lens. Some people study it through a historical lens or a cryptology lens. There's so many, so many different people that try to uncover this. And over the years, there have been lots of people that have apparently,

you know, solved the meaning of the Voynich manuscript. But almost in every case, like a week later, it's completely debunked. And it's just completely debunked. And it's like, oh, nope. It actually wasn't actually decoded. We all know Foothill College, right? Yeah. Yeah. Close by. Pretty recently, they actually thought that they managed to uncover.

No way. When it's manuscripted. Yeah. But of course, they were debunked after that. It wasn't actually decoded. It was in 2019. It was mainly through one of the anthropology instructors at Foothill College. He and his team deciphered what it meant. And I was actually, I was like, whoa, no way. I was like, yeah, that's such a random college Say that they found the key to translating the text Yeah, I mean I guess all I just takes is one person to either think outside of the box and

Finds I don't know. I don't know how it works. Yeah So I don't know. I don't know how it works. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, so, yeah, there are 240 pages. Some of the pages even have, like, folds in them so that the pages can fold out into bigger extensions to have more of the drawing and more of the text on them. Oh, damn. Um, some of them are very nicely drawn. There's an illustration on essentially every single page of the book. And that's actually one of the more, I guess, curious things about the book. I'll actually send you guys like some pictures of the book in our group chat. For some reason, I think that it's like creepy old book. Yeah,

I'm like looking at some of the pages right now and the scripting, I don't know. It just reminds me. It looks like it looks like a mixture of Hindi and like Farsi to me. Like written down. I don't know if you guys know what those languages look like when written. But like, yeah, it looks kind of similar to it, but also not really. But yes, and that's people like it's definitely not from those areas is what people do know it is more. It's definitely more like a Germanic type of language. Yeah, instead it was written first and then a drawing was added after. That's usually how it went. Like the the text was written on the page and then a drawing was added after. That's usually how it went. Like the text was written on the page and then, or there was-

They left room for the- For the images, there's two different ways. It seems like there was the text purposely written on the paper and then the drawings were created around it. But of course they knew what drawings they wanted to make on those pages because the drawing has directly affected the tone of the text. So there's all sorts of different things on display

in the manuscript, lots of herbal and botanical drawings, lots of cosmological or astronomical astrology topics, pharmaceutical topics, medical topics. Yeah, I was going to tell you, I see the crystal plants in there. Were they ever able to identify those plants? Most of the plants drawn in the book have still remained unidentified. There are 113 different plants in that book that still remain unidentified until this day, to this day.

What? Damn, dude. And all of the constellations, the star patterns that are drawn in the book are also unidentified. There are remarks to astrology in there showing different signs like Pisces, Taurus, Sagittarius, things like that, which of course we know we do have something we can connect that to, but the other astrological signs are just completely unknown from inside that book. Yeah. Oh yeah, different, you know, cryptographers, even code breakers have tried looking into this. Anthropologists, psychologists, so many different people that have looked into this manuscript, but it still has never been deciphered.

Damn. Let's see what else. People get on it. They've been on it for 600 years. Like do better. I don't know what to say. And it's called the Voynich? Voynich. Yeah. Voynich? Voynich. Voynich manuscript. I just, you know, people from Atlantis wrote it and that's why we can't decipher it. Exactly. The lost city. Yeah, this is the lost city.

Completely off topic. But like I just looked up HH Homes so that I could prepare photos for like our Instagram post. Yeah. And there's photos of him like side by side next to like Leonardo DiCaprio and Keanu Reeves for some reason. Bro. Wait. Bro, what? Yeah. What the hell? This man need no.

What? Wines. No, I see. I see that one. I see them both. You saw. You saw. No, I see. I see that one. I see them both. You saw. You saw. Yeah. I also see Meghan Markle. Yeah, Meghan Markle. She's like a descendant is what people are saying.

Is this a picture of what the murder castle looked like? Yeah. It was called the Murder Castle, right? Yeah. Like that, yeah. It was called the Murder Castle, right? Yeah. That's... that's some sweetie-talk shit. By the way, it was torn down, but it stood until 1938. Anyways, continue.

Do you know what's standing there now? Sorry, let's keep going, okay? Yeah. You guys are fine, you guys are fine. Tell us about the book. The manuscript. The manuscript. I like the word. I know it's honestly pretty fun. Yeah. Um, So, Alexis, you know of the movie, or do you guys, I know you know, Jay, do you know the movie Arrival? Yeah. You have like aliens coming down with like the language and everything. Yeah.

It's kind of funny because, so there's some people who think it's just like an unsolvable mystery that will never be solved. Like indecipherable. Yeah. there's this guy named Robert Richards. He's a historian of science at the University of Chicago, or at least he was. He said he like he uses the codex of the manuscript to teach the concept of scientific paradigms and where a scientific theory shapes research so much that you can't even really explain or identify anomalies outside of the theory. So that's sort of how he views the manuscript. But he actually said in an interview interview he was like um Richard likens the Voynich text to the inscrutable language used by aliens landing on the earth the 2016 film Arrival

um and i just think that's fun because Arrival is like one of my favorite movies ever so i okay i'm so glad you brought that up because i'm obsessed with the movie as well anything that no way sci-fi alien type of shit I am obsessed with. Did you know that the movie like the movie like Arrival was based on a short story? Yeah I still need to read it. I still need to read it. There's just so much more. Ah and the original title for the movie Arrival was actually Story of Your Life. Oh that's cute. Oh, okay.

I actually didn't know that it was really titled that, but... Yeah. Sorry. I'm obsessed with this movie. I love Arrival. I'm like, cool. So when you mentioned that, I'm like, cool. Dream, let's have to talk about it.

Let's go. I love Arrival. Yeah, we should watch Arrival and record a podcast on it. Yeah. Like, us watching it? That'd be cool. Patreon. Yeah. Anyway. Honestly, you know what?

We should have like the 10-15 minutes before we start, before we get into stories and then like after, but we should have those 15 minutes for a total of half an hour. Like for Patreon. Okay. Yeah. like after but we should have those 15 minutes for a total of half an hour like for patreon okay yeah if people want to hear us talk more they like they can subscribe if not they can like get the stories but we can still talk i mean this is what we're gonna do if you guys don't tell us what you want seriously let us know what you guys want to hear. That would be very awesome, awesome. Um, yeah, I will end this off by saying though, um, that Robert Richards, he says like we're not even sure it's really a language at all since it's so far outside our linguistic paradigm,

though it looks like it means something. Uh, Richard says we could be assured of that only if we can translate it into our language. And he says, it may be after all, just a medieval nonsense joke. Damn, dude. Actually. Who really knows? Languages are crazy. Like, how did English come to be, bruh? Like I don't know. Did any language come to be?

How did any language come to be? Literally, yeah. I don't know. Now that you said that, about, you know, it could be some medieval nonsense. I have a medieval cooking book in French.

Okay. And it's in, you know, modern French and old French. So I can't figure out the old French for my life. Like I would get killed if I went to France when they spoke old French. But they have a section towards the very end that's called impossible dishes and I love it because one of them is a whale dish which yeah, whatever another one. It's a peacock one and another one is like

Mongoose no, no, no, it's a rooster but with like, plated armor. That's so funny. Oh, when it comes to like, in my piece... Yeah. Yeah. So, I'll say this in a bit, but... When you said it might be some medieval nonsense, I'm like... Okay, you... It might just, I can see

that. But there was so much work put into it, though. There was, which is crazy. So the the Benaki Library, where it's still held, is is owned by Yale. It's essentially the Yale Rare Books Library. And so recently, I think it was twenty twenty, they actually put up the transcript of the entire manuscript. So it's kind of cool to look at.

You can also buy like copies of the manuscript online, which are pretty cool. No way. Yeah, that's right. I'm glad how they actually make it accessible to people. Yeah. Because there's so many things that are like in the archives and like no one ever sees. Yeah like such old books that like are never going to see the public are never going to get to look at. But like, no, this is just out there. It's cool. Or like when the Vatican has like so many things archived. Yeah. And I'm like, I want to see. I want to read. I just want to know the name of the titles of the books.

But thank you. All right. Thank you, Ken. Hi. You're very welcome. Thank you. All right. Thank you, Kai. Hi. You're very welcome. Also, to answer your question earlier, Jay, it's now a post office.

Oh, it's a postal office? A post office? Yeah, it's a postal office. That is. The H.H. Holmes building. That tornado. The murder castle? Yeah, the murder castle. So they did actually build something like where it used to be

Yeah, so it was torn. It was there until 1938 and it was torn down and then they started building a post office there Probably we should go Probably. We should go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we should just talk to him. It's like, hey, hey, like, I didn't do you ever say anything. We need to go to New Haven. We do. There's so many cool things in New Haven. I also think that we can find even more cool things if we just start looking in there.

I want to go to her grave. That's their graves. They're all their graves. That's a whole family in there. Yeah. Unfortunately. Yeah. Unfortunately. I'm glad that they're together. Not, you know, in different states. Well, I'm not glad that they're like dead, you know what I'm saying? Well, yeah, girl, folks, we'll get into this another time. Yeah. Anyways.

Thank you for listening. Thank you for being here. Thank you for being here. Episode 10 is in the books. We're in the double digits. Episode 10. Double digits. Leave, don't, just leave stuff in the website and tell us what you want listeners

literally any suggestion like drop whatever you want to hear. Even if it's not necessarily like always spooky story true crime stuff like if it is anywhere in the general area of things that you could imagine us talking about, then drop it in there. Yeah, you can also let us know what case has been your favorite so far. So we get a feeling for what you like. Yeah, true. Yeah, actually.

Yeah. So just just right in so we know you're out there, you know, and yeah, so also wherever you listen to us Spotify, Apple podcast, give us a five star in a review. Yeah, when it's said it really helps put us out there. Yeah. Tell tell us how good I am at carrying these two guys. If you interact with us, we will interact with you. Tell us how good I am at carrying these two guys. Oh my god. If you interact with us, we will interact with you. Yes.

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