Chambers of the Occult - EP# 13 Courtroom Controversy and Eerie Dolls: The O.J. Simpson Trial and La Isla de las Muñecas

Episode Date: July 11, 2024

In this gripping episode of Chambers of the Occult, we delve into two chillingly different tales that have captivated public imagination. First, we revisit the infamous O.J. Simpson trial, a courtroom drama that unfolded in Los Angeles, California, and left the world questioning justice and truth. We'll explore the key events, controversial moments, and the eerie atmosphere that surrounded this high-profile case.Then, we're heading to Xochimilco, Mexico City, to explore the mysterious La Isla de las Muñecas (The Island of the Dolls), a place shrouded in eerie legends and ghostly encounters. Discover the haunting story of this remote island, where thousands of dolls hang from trees and buildings, creating a spine-chilling landscape that draws curious visitors and paranormal enthusiasts alike.And for this week's bonus story, Kai tells us about an unusual great flood in Massachusetts. This bizarre and tragic event highlights how reality can sometimes be stranger than fiction.Tune in for a deep dive into these cases that continue to intrigue and terrify. Don’t miss out—join us for a journey into the unknown! Send us a Text Message.

Chambers of the occult may contain content that might not be suitable for all listeners. Listener discretion is advised. Welcome! Welcome! Why was there such a long pause? I have no idea. I was just thinking, I'm not sure if I should be in the video or not. I'm not sure if I should be in the video or not. I'm not sure if I should be in the video or not.

I'm not sure if I should be in the video or not. I'm not sure if I should be in the video or not. I'm not sure if I should be in the video or not. I'm not sure if I should be in the video or not. I'm not sure if I should be in the video or not. Welcome! Welcome! Why was there such a long pause? I have no idea. Hi, my name's Alexis. Because, because we said, remember last time we were like, okay, wait, Alexis is gonna start.

She's gonna. Yeah. Hi, my name's Alexis. Hi, I'm Jay. Hi, I name is Alexis. I am Jay. Hi, I'm Kai. And this is Chambers of the Occult. Welcome back, a very rocky start. This is what's up right now for other podcasters.

Yes. Yeah. We give you raw content and we let you know that we're not ready. We let you know Alexis and we let you know that we're not ready. We let you know Alexis is not ready for introductions. Yeah, more than anything. Yeah. Oh, I hate you guys. Anyways, what you guys went up to. literally, like, I'm so serious, literally just trying not to die

from the heat. Like, that's what I've been up to. Wait a way. Yeah. It's been so bad. Yeah, wait a way. Yeah. Yeah, wait a way. And I opened my window because my room was hot. and I'm like, it's gonna cool off a little.

It got hotter and I'm like, no, that was a mistake. It's so sad. I mean, I got my water. So I'll stay hydrated at least through the episode. And you created a new D&D character. Oh, God. What? at least through the episode. And you created a new D&D character. Oh god. What? She's lovely. I love her. Oh, there's many.

There's many. There's many. I texted Alexis that I made a new D&D character because I was not like in the, like, I was not like actively trying to make like a character or anything. I was just listening to music and this song came on and I was listening like in the like I was not like actively trying to make like a character or anything I was just listening to music and this song came on and I was listening to the lyrics and I'm like Oh, I was like, what if like a character was singing this song type of thing? Yeah, and Her name is a Lara Thorne and

Long story short she became like a dominatrix by default. Oh, oh shit. Okay. Like it wasn't her voice. It kind of just like landed on her lap type of thing. Yeah. I love it. I love her. That's so sick. Are you are you planning on like using her like in a later campaign or is it just like a fun thing? I was telling Katie, I make characters faster than I can play them. So it would be nice to play her some campaign. Before playing her, I do want to play one of the pirate characters I made.

I love her. You have a pirate character? Yes, I love her. Oh my god. And the thing is that for some reason I really got invested into this character. So the backstory is no longer a backstory. It's a whole... It's like a whole book. It's a whole chapter.

Yeah. Yeah. So I need to stop. Well, I mean, I'm interested to hear about them. And who knows the way that... I mean, I don't know about the like wild magic table you guys have, but like something catastrophic could happen to Callum. Yeah. I guess from my understanding. The thing is that I gave Aidy a list of crazy things that could happen.

And we've lost Kai. Hey! Oh, we lost Kai. All three of us have been disconnected now All three of us yeah the first time it was you oh You know, I really like that it's you guys lately because you know, I've I don't know I feel like I've turned a new table. I feel like Unlead that's what the saying is. Yeah, I feel like I've turned a new leaf.

And the student has now become the teacher. Yes. And that's great. Welcome back. And we got him back. We were, I think. Okay. I accidentally closed the tab.

Man, we were celebrating. We were like, and now Kai has also disconnected, just like the two of us in the past half. Actually, you know what? We've all disconnected from the pod now. That's... Yeah. It's a historical... That's crazy.

What a coincidence. Oh my goodness. What? Anyway, you're telling Katie... No, because I sent her like some custom Well Magic Surges. She took a lot of them and a lot of the other ones and she added a lot

more in there as well. So I also, not gonna lie, if Katie you're listening, I'm sorry, I did not finish going through the whole list of Wild Magic surges. So I don't know everything she's added in there, which you know, great, because I'll be taken off guard as well. Yeah, I love that. But yeah, I love scaring you last session. Oh, I was like, yeah, yeah. Was it last? I was a little prankster.

Yeah, it was. Was she hit behind the mannequins? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm so proud. Anyways. Hell yeah.

No one that 20 year old is first felt to do that. I did and I rolled good. We rolled so bad. We rolled so bad yeah we lived we did surprise yeah yeah look well I already get in anyways whether yeah Jay start off Alexis Yeah, I'll take you want me to start you off cool my story is alexis story so go ahead and share it, please So I have a question for you guys Okay, I might have an answer you guys. Do you guys like orange juice?

Yeah, yeah Yeah, I Do you guys like orange juice? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have it, you know, I have it once in a blue moon, but what do you call orange juice? Like what's a nickname for it you have? Oh, like nickname for it? Okay, well, okay. That's such a stupid way to introduce this story.

What's a nickname you got for it, brother? Say it for me. OJ. OJ, motherfreaking Simpsons. Okay. Oh my god. That is so dumb. Oh my god. But it worked.

I would say something, but Kai has all the emotions I'm feeling right now. So I'm going to let him do it for me. Okay, get on with your story. Thank you. Let me have the floor now. So today we're going to be discussing the murder trial of OJ Simpson. First things first, I want to start off with this is a super controversial topic. That's my warning for everyone. And I am going to be giving a trigger warning throughout this. Um, so this started June 12th, 1994 when the bodies of Nicole Brown Simpson and

Ronald Goldman were murdered outside of Nicole's home in Brentwood, Los Angeles. I do want to say there are a lot of details about this. A lot. A lot. Okay. So I'm not going to be sharing them all. I'm going to be sharing the details I feel are significant to the story and the case. This is kind of like, like how you did with Jaminet, how it has so much that you could probably put it into another episode in the future. That's what I envisioned for this.

Okay. So I'm going to be sharing what I can. It's the tip of the iceberg type of thing. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I've never like actually researched anything about the OJ Simpson like trial and everything that happened. But like I know that there's a lot of shit that goes along with it. So there's a lot. Yeah, I originally, my brother, one time put on a OJ Simpson kind of documentary.

I think it was like the People versus OJ Simpson on Hulu or something like that. And oh my God, that was like one of my first introductions to OJ. And there's a lot that they didn't even put in there, but there's a lot that's already in there in the documentary in itself. It's like too much details. It's crazy. There is a lot. Yeah.

But the discovery of their bodies would later become one of the most publicized murder trials in history. Nicole Brown was found with multiple stab wounds along with her friend Ron. And a lot of people believed that only one man could have done this. And that man was Orenthal James Simpson, actually Nicole Brown's husband himself. And OJ had a huge name already at that point. He won the Heisman Trophy in 1968. He was in the NFL for 11 seasons running back and Buffalo Brails, Buffalo Bills. But he was also known to be really charismatic in the media.

A lot of people figured he couldn't have done this, but a lot of evidence began to surface and it made a lot of people question. A lot of people were captivated by this. OJ and Nicole Brown met in 1977. He was 30 years old. She was 18. Hell no. Hell no, babe.

18, brother. 18. And she was working as a waitress in a Beverly Hills private club. It was called the Daisy. Or she's just trying to make her money. And this 30-mil man comes in. I mean, like when you got, when your name is Orenthal and you got like a receding hairline, then I mean, I guess you don't have too many options, right?

So yeah, wait a minute. But I mean, she had a lot. That's why he would introduce himself as OJ. Yeah, holy shit. Like, it doesn't make it better. I've never known his actual name. I don't know if he has heard it. But when you said his name, like Orenthal James, I like snickered. I was like, Oh, no, I've heard it as well. That's his name, brother, or thought James it's so funny though. Um, anyways, so yeah, he was 30 she was 18 working at the daisy. They started.

This was in 1977. Okay. Um, when they were dating though, Simpson was actually married. Bruh. He was married. Why? He was filed for divorce two years later, 1979. Why do people think they can get away with this?

Oh my goodness gracious. I think she knew, I'm not entirely sure. It doesn't really detail that, but yeah. He was married, he filed for divorce from his wife his first one, two years later in 1979. And then OJ and Nicole married February 2nd, 1985. They had two children, a daughter named Sydney and a son named Justin. And they actually signed a prenup. And in the prenup, it stated that Brown was prohibited, prohibited, prohibited, prohibited, prohibited from working during marriage.

So he was like, you're not going to work while we're married, which a lot of women would probably go crazy for that we're like not working yeah not working like crazy in a good way or a bad way I don't know maybe both I would love to be a stay-at-home mom yeah see exactly yeah no cuz like there's both takes there's a people that want to get out there and work and there's a people that like I don't know if you've seen on TikTok but they're like who was the first woman that ran to work because we hate you it's like I wanted to stay home I wanted to do my little thing and I gotta go out there and make my money.

Yeah wait a minute. There's both points of you out there yeah yeah yeah wait a minute guys we need to record in person with video because the reaction i just had to alexis saying trad wife like there was no there was nothing vocal about it but like i leaned back in my chair i like rubbed my face i'm just silently laughing to myself. Yes. Anyway, sorry. No, you're fine. Just keep going.

She wasn't allowed to work. Yeah, she wasn't allowed to work. According to a psychologist, the psychologist names is Lenore E. Walker. She said that their marriage displayed a quote, textbook example of domestic abuse, end quote. Oh, yeah. So trigger warning. For domestic abuse. Yeah. Um, Nicole Brown, you wrote a lot of her statements.

There's a lot of documents, there's documentaries, letters, newspaper articles, everything, And she states that Simpson would beat her in public during sex, in front of friends and family members. She said he broke her arm during a fight. And when she went to the emergency room, she lied to the staff and said he fell off her bike so that he wouldn't get arrested. There were about 62 incidents of abuse that Brown experienced. And out of all of them, the police were only notified eight times and Simpson was only arrested once. Damn. Yeah. And that's, that's what we know. Yeah. Yeah.

And she filed for divorce for irreconcilable differences on February 25th, 1992. And of course, after the divorce, things got worse. Brown Yeah, Brown said that Simpson began like stalking her and harassing her. Yeah, which is like a tactic that abusers use to get their victims to like come back. So, um, Brown, she had a new boyfriend and she said that Simpson spied on them having sex. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah I don't like it. Also they had a kid, right? They had two kids. Yes, you know who had custody over the kids or was it like shared custody? It was shared I believe okay And doesn't actually say, that's a good question. Yeah.

I'm nosy. I want to know. I like it. Go ahead. Yeah. So, Shannon and her boyfriend, he spied on them and after this little incident she was terrified. She was scared for her life because there was a point in time where he had threatened

to kill her if he ever found her with another man. Oh yeah. As a result, he drafted a will. Um, and on June 8th, 1994, a woman named Nicole, which we assume is Nicole Brown, made a phone call to a woman's shelter called the sojourn house, assuming that, you know, she was wanting a safe spot to hide from Simpson, especially because she was like refusing to reconcile the their marriage. And this whole prosecution was led by Marsha Clark and Christopher Darden.

And during this time, they had they both had like presented a compelling case. But OJ, he had a whole team. He literally called them the dream team. And it was all just like hope high profile defense attorneys. He had the money for it. Yeah, he had the money for Yeah, yeah Dream team is great Yeah, no, seriously

So dream you imagine how cocky you have to be to be like this or this person like name them all is like Yeah, like this is the dream. No, literally No, seriously and then like I don't know I don't know I Mean homeboy was rich Like rich rich Um Speaking of dream team dream team had Robert Shapiro I can't think of that

name without thinking of like victorious what right victorious what what about it what Robert Shap jay tell me what what would you like me to say oh my goodness okay no no i'm asking you because i have some no i was saying robert shippiro that i can't think of that name without thinking about victorius the curly headed nerdy guy. He's a defense attorney. Yeah. Girl, I- Anyways, Johnny Cochran- And I don't remember anyone's names. Yeah, valid. Robert Shapiro, Johnny Cochran and F Lee Bailey.

This was OJ's defense team. Their strategy was to question the integrity of the LAPD and claim that Simpson was framed. Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah, what do we. By who? I don't think they actually claim anybody who framed them. But this, this entire trial was pretty much everywhere. They made the headlines for every newspaper for like months. But I am going to tell you a little bit about the crime scene itself. So at around 10 55 p.m. there was a dog walker. She was just walking around the neighborhood and she found Brown's dog.

And when she found Brown's dog, she found his legs recovered in blood. And immediately she thought like, Oh, the dog is hurt. Yeah. So she, you know, grab the dogs and she lent it to a couple because she was supposed to be taking care of the dog that she was walking, whatever. So she lent it to a couple that she knew. They were also her neighbors to take care of it. And then that couple took it out for a walk. And as a couple was walking the dog, they're walking towards Brown's apartment or condo. And they found her body. Immediately, of course. Yeah, they call the police. So, yeah. So the body was like easily visible then?

Yeah, it was. It was like at the front door. Just like outside? The front door was open. The front door was open, but she was at the bottom, right where the front door is. So you could see here right away practically. The bottom, what do you mean?

The bottom of the stairs that lead to the front door, sorry. So she was outside. She was inside. She was inside the house. Wait, this part is coming again? So, okay. You walk to the front door, you open the door, and there's a set of stairs right in front of you. She's at the bottom of those stairs. Okay. And she's easily like visible

from outside. So you open the door and you look inside and there's stairs going up into the house and she's at the bottom of those stairs It doesn't matter but okay Well, you know house houses have like two floors sometimes you know what I'm saying? Yeah Yeah, she's at the bottom of the stairs. Okay, because you said the stairs going up to the front doors So to me that paints the picture. Oh, sorry. Yeah. I see where that confusion came from.

My fault. Yeah. Okay. She's at the bottom of the stairs in front of the front door. Behind the front doors. Inside the house. Inside the house. Or like behind the front doors. Inside the house. Yeah. Behind the front doors, inside the house inside or like behind the front doors inside the house

Trying to describe one of those houses that has like little stairs that you take up and then you open the front door No, I think like it's just a house like like you open up the doors and Staircase just going up to the second floor. But yeah, I'm like You know I'm saying I I'm like, I'm doing a great job. He's looking at it backward. You know what I'm saying? I don't know. Do you have a picture of the house? Yes, I do. And I will be sending it to you guys. Well, do you want it right now? I mean, yeah, that would help just because I'm trying to visualize it. So I have like three different buildings in my head. Oh Yeah, yeah, she lives in a condo so it's it's small it was not small but it is kind of small

Small big medium large What kind of photo do you guys want cuz I have a lot of fun What do you mean the photo you think we would need best to visualize it? Yeah, okay. The house one. Oh, yeah. Oh, like are you seeing it for the first time too now? Yeah. I saw a different photo of it. I saw a different photo of it. Oh, Wikipedia is not good sometimes. Okay. Anyways.

And that's why I'm sending it. Never mind. They do lead up to the front doors. I was right. I just wasn't envisioning it. They are outside. That's what you said. Like you were right. You gaslight yourself. I did. I really did. We just question you too much for you to like. I know you guys literally interrogate me. You guys gaslight me. Anyways, I'm just kidding. But yeah, she's at the bottom of the stairs. I was outdoors. Okay. She was outside. Okay. I know what I pictured

Okay, and a lot of blood sorry go on yeah, sorry that's why I asked what kind of photo Okay what kind of photo because the other photos. I don't know what kind of photo. Well, okay. But yeah, they found her body right there. And so, of course, immediately they call the police. And. When the police came on scene, they saw, of course, the front door was wide open, but. There was no sign of like any kind of breaking in or anything like that. There was nothing out of the ordinary, I guess. And they did notice that her body was face down.

She was also barefoot and she was at the bottom of the stairs that led up to the front door and the walkway was like covered in blood. Okay. And then they also noticed that she could have been, she was eat they could tell that she was intended to be the person like she was an intended target She had multiple stab wounds, but she also had a lot of defense stab wounds in her hands Which of course shows signs of struggle. Yeah, she's fine, but there was One that was in her neck and it was so deep into her neck that it severed an artery on her back and like the center of it kind of upper a little bit like kind of high. How old was she at this point? How old was she when she died? Got killed?

Yeah. How old was she? I have that, although I'm looking at it. I don't have it right here, that's why. She was... 45. Okay. No, I'm wrong.

25. Ronald was 45. She was 25. Yeah, that sounds about right. Yeah. Because she was 18 when they got married? Yeah. So. Because they got married what? They got married 70. No, they got married 92 in 92. 92, got it.

Yeah. But they found a bruise on her back and then on the back of her shirt that she was wearing they found a footprint. Oh yeah so they think that the murderer had stepped on her back pulled her head and go back to him to him and slit her throat after the murder had killed Goldman. Yeah. Goldman was found. That's what. I'm just...

That seems like excessive. Yeah. No, it does. Like she was like on the ground and he like walks up like behind her. Essentially grabs her hair, pulls her head back and then like. And then. Cuts from behind. Essentially. Yeah.

God. That's some rage right there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So they think that the murder did that after they killed her friend Goldman. He was found pretty close by kind of on a tree by a fence. He had same kind of stab wounds.

They were on his body and his neck and the same defense stab wounds on his hands. But there were also signs on his neck that he had been put in a choke hold. So, and right beside his body, there was a blue knit cap and an extra large light leather, erasist stone, esatoner, leather glove. It was to a left hand. There was an envelope with something that Goldman was just bringing back to Brown. They think that he was bringing, he was bringing something back to Brown. So they think that he he was bringing he was kind of like bringing something back to her.

He just went to her house to drop something off. And so they think he was just caught in the wrong time. And that they murdered him because he was a witness as well. But the glove was a huge thing. Okay. It was only the left hand, so that meant there was the right hand somewhere. They were going all over to find that right hand, brother. Yeah, of course. Did they find it. But they also found a trail of a bloody shoe print. And to the left of the footprints that were going kind of just away from the scene were drops of blood

from the killer. And I guess his his left hand was bleeding. So they were able to go ahead. So well, Jay, were you going to ask if they found the other glove? Well, I was going to ask more about the how they were able to determine that the blood was from the killer. OK, yeah, that's that was also a to be my question. Did they DNA test and figure that out? They did a DNA test. Okay. They did a DNA test on Simpson and it matched it all. It matched the blood drops next to the bloody footprints. It matched. On Simpson as in OJ or? Yes. OJ. Yeah. Okay, I'm just going to call him OJ from this. Yeah, OJC. Because they're both Simpsons. So. Yeah, that's true.

Yeah. Well, I call her Brown. I call her Brown. That's why. You did. Okay. But. Interesting. Okay. I mean, because like, I mean, if they confirmed confirmed his DNA then like why was this such a controversial trial? But I'm sure you'll get into that so Because it has to be beyond the reason of a doubt that they're guilty And I'm just thinking like his dream team would just have to like And I'm just thinking like his dream team would just have to like give I don't know if like was there a you'll probably get into this about if there was a jury or not, but I'll ask when we get there.

Oh, yeah, I'll ask when I get there. Okay. Um, but um, another reason why they found out it was like from his left hand specifically as well is because Simpson OJ had a cut on his left hand. And so that's how they got the DNA and that's how they matched it together. the law enforcement, they were trying to call some, or OJ after, you know, Brown, the scene. They went to his estate so that they could, you know, notify him. Yeah. And it was Tom Lang, Philip Vanater, Ron Phillips, and Mark Fuhrman. And they were also trying to let him know that he had to go pick up his kids from the police station. They were going to escort him there because they were found inside the house sleeping.

Which is awful. And they went, they buzzed on the intercom and after 30 minutes there was absolutely no response. And they saw that his car was parked. So at least his car was home, which meant possibly he was home. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

But they noticed it was parked really weird. It was a at a weird angle. Kind of like there was if he like yeah, like hurry. Yeah, exactly. And then they noticed that there was blood on the car door. For some reason, I this is this is where the controversy comes in. Kind of if you. Their first thought when they see the blood on the car door is not that he did something bad, like just

murder somebody. It's that he's in danger. He's hurt something. And so... Malad, because like his wife was just killed. So what happened to him type of thing? Yeah. So they scale the wall. And they unlock the gate from the other side. Furman was the one that unlocked the gate for them. And they went into his home. And when they went in, Furman found a right hand leather glove. Okay. There it is. Bro is like messy.

Yeah, bro. One of the detectives, Phillips, he later testified that when he called OJ to tell him about the death, he seemed quote, very upset and quote, but he was only concerned about the children, not in a way of their safety, but if they saw the murder, if they saw her body and things like that, which honestly, I think I don't know, I think that's kind of valid. If I'm a dad, I'm going to wonder if my kids saw that. No, yeah, of course. I'm also going to wonder if they're okay.

You know what I'm saying? If the concern is more that they see anything rather than are they okay? Yeah. It's valid to have both concerns, but if they lean more towards the that they see anything, I guess it really depends though. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. No, but this trial, this trial went on for eight months. This trial, this trial went on for eight months. It went on for longer than eight months, I believe, actually. And honestly, that's not long compared to a lot of other murder trials. Some of them go on for years.

And so I think that's like another thing is like, oh, damn. Like, they just know. But on October 3rd, 1995. The jury had made their decision. And Simpson was acquitted of his murders. Yeah. acquitted of his murders. The fuck? Yep. He was tried and acquitted. What was there? Is there like, I guess, notes or like commentary from any of the jurors about how they came

to that decision? Yeah, like, was there a jury involved or was it? Yes, there was a jury involved. It even says I even have the statistics and their races. The reason why that the jury had came to this conclusion is because this case is so controversial because a lot of people just assumed that this was all because they were just racist towards OJ. Oh so they were like he didn't actually do this they just wanted to pin somebody for a crime and he was a black man. So yeah, I see. And the jury was 40% white, 20% black, 17% Hispanic, 15% Asian. Okay, so it was like a, it was a like a minorityfilled jury. So they ruled in favor of O.J. Okay, I see. That makes a lot of sense,

actually. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, O.J. Simpson, he was tried and acquitted for the murders of his wife and his wife's friend and done nothing really after that. So I have lots of questions. Yes. You better have those answers. Is there any recount from OJ, from any of the officers or things like that, the investigators who looked more into how like the actual murders were committed, the scene and like the staging of it all? Like, the actual process of what happened, is there knowledge of or a theory of what

happened? Like, there's a lot of theories. Yeah, no, yeah, there's a lot of theories. A lot of them are mainly just because of the fact that he was just abusive. Like it was all just involving domestic abuse. It really doesn't get into details to like other motives or anything like that. It honestly doesn't even give a lot of details to how he's like for sure, for sure accused if that makes it like or like yeah I don't know if that makes sense but yeah he's there's nothing concrete about him or really anything else and that's what like does not sit well with me like what

the fuck yeah he is the he was the only suspect and he was DNA matched to blood and objects used in the crime to the scene but no it wasn't him what year place? The trial? Yeah, 95. Okay, because my mind said would have been we got to hold off until we have enough evidence that we can prove that he was guilty. If I was, you know, trying to prove him guilty. But I don't know. I don't know if I need to know more details to know whether it felt rushed like a rush trial or not. No, because it took months but like rush like rush getting him. No, I know what you mean. But even months. Even even then like months to me is still kind of rushed. Like I said, like these murder trials are going for years, dude.

And like, you know, they just got this and the case, you know, like, they found two bodies. If it was close, if it was just a cold case, or like, if it's still like, if it's still like if it's still remain open after a while? I think it just closed right after they acquitted him. See and that doesn't make sense though because if you're going to say he's not guilty okay figure out who was the killer then because that means he's still out there or she's still out there don't just stop investigating because he's not you can stop investigating him because you quit at him go find another person go find another suspect um so yeah honestly I'm I still had some more questions. So it was seen as just like a murder of passion, essentially then. Like domestic violence went a little too far. far, he probably got angry at the dude being so close with his wife and killed them both,

something like that. I guess at least that's my understanding of how logically that would have happened. Was there other evidence that was used in the case other than the DNA testing, the glove that was found, and the blood scattered throughout, like on the car, in the house, things like that? Was the entire investigation just based off of the DNA evidence? There was hair found in the blue knit cap. Got it. So there really wasn't too much evidence.

They just were really banking on the fact that they had something they thought was concrete in a way. Yeah, they had all they really had is the blood trail, the shoe print, the hair. That was it. The glove. I don't know. I feel like that's pretty concrete, like pretty cut and dry. I don't know.

It does seem like that, but we just have to figure out what the dream team, how they dismissed it or what they brought to the table. And I have a whole different thread of stuff I could get into about the lawyers, but same. That's when like, when Alexis mentioned them, I was just like, quiet for like a minute and a half. I'm like, I am not going to get into this. It's so extremely detailed that I know for a fact I could do another episode of this and it would be longer than this one and I would give you a lot more details and you probably still would have more questions after it.

Could you give us more details right now? I think we still got time. Yeah, because he just died this year. That's why you guys can ask questions. Yeah, he did. He did. So, OJ, he was pretty still pretty favorable in the public's view at that point, right? Like, good football player. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, and that's part of the reason why it was so controversial, right? Because people were just like, oh, no, he's a good guy. We like him. controversial, right? Because people were just like, oh, no, he's a good guy. We like him. It was. It was that the fact that he was a black man and like a lot of a lot of

people just thought that they were just accusing him of actually Furman, the detective who. found the glove. He said the N word. I believe to OJ. And he. I think was removed. From the police department as a whole. Fired, I guess, if you should say, for racism and planting evidence.

I see. Okay. That's a big thing to kind of leave out. I think that's a big thing to kind of leave out. Um, yeah, go ahead. Just like if, if the lead investigator of your case is very obviously like racist, or at the very least discriminatory against OJ simply because he is black, then I completely understand how that skews the investigation, but especially with the jurors who were like primarily minority people. And so I feel like that's very important to this investigation. Yeah, anyway, what were you gonna say, Jay? No, I was gonna say that I know you said

that there's a lot of information. You said it right from the start. And I know there's more and I want more, but you're gonna have to give us a deep dive in this case at some point in the future. That's what I was trying to say. Yeah, like I just wanted to do a deep dive on this because there is a lot

and there's a lot with Furman that I wanted to save as well for I'm gonna be so real I think you could have done it this episode like I think you still can if you want to I don't know I don't know. I told you it's a lot. It Kai, it really is a lot. It's a lot. Okay. Like it actually is a lot. All right.

Well, but do you guys have any more questions? I guess not as of right now. I guess I'll save some of them. Yeah, well I'll have more when you do the deep dive. Okay. Then at that point you'll have a lot more answers. Yeah. But thank you for listening to the murder trial of OJ Simpson. You're welcome. Thanks for telling us. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay.

And then who's next? You're next, Jay. I am next. Cool. You're mama. All right, Jay. So you're up. I am up. So this is episode 13. And I wanted to do something spooky. But I didn't know what would be considered spooky. I mean, I know what's in the feed, but I'm like, how much spooky do you want to put in there? So I just decided to do something that a lot of people find horrifying.

Oh, thanks. Mounds. No, actually. Okay. That would have made sense too, though. No, so for this case, we're gonna hop on a plane and we're gonna fly down south to Mexico. Okay. Oh my goodness. Lots of scary shit down there, so you know. Are you talking about? Huh? Continue. Okay, so Huh? Continue. Okay, so we're heading to Mexico and we're going to go to the the borough of Xochimilco in Mexico City. Oh my god. No, that's not what we're covering.

I don't. I've always wanted to go there, bro. I've always wanted to go. So this is the story of La Isla de las Muñecas, also known as the Island of the Dolls. Yeah. Oh wait, okay, no, I have heard of this before, but like years and years and years ago. Okay. Yeah. So that's what I'm covering this episode. Cool. Thank gosh. Because a lot of people find dolls creepy. Yes, I do.

I want people... And I don't want to go there, so... I too. Whoa. I too. I too. I too. So, we're going to head, like I said, to Sochi Milko.

And let me tell you a little bit about Sochi Milko. So we're going to head, like I said, to Xochimilco. And let me tell you a little bit about Xochimilco. So let's just go into the island and don't let you know about its surroundings. So Xochimilco is mostly known because of its canals. And they're navigated by colorful bottom boats called trajineras. And these boats are just popular among tourists and locals, and they're used for leisure rides, celebrations, parties. It's very affordable and people go on them all the time. Okay.

So I'm actually sending you a picture right now on the group chat of what those boats look like. And there's hundreds of them. So there's hundreds of these boats. They'll have different Names and like designs. Um, oh my goodness. Yeah. So like I said, I love them. Those are called trajineras and it's the name of the boats. Like I said, those are called trajineras and it's the name of the boats. And the canals are surrounded by chinampas, which are small artificial islands that were created by the Aztecs for agricultural purposes.

Okay. That's sick. So, yeah. That's really cool, actually. Yeah. So the canals and the chinampas from Xochimilco were highly productive during the Aztec period, a little bit of a history lesson, so just, you know, like, why it's an important type of thing.

So they're like floating gardens, and they're capable of producing large amounts of food that were essential for feeding the large population of Teochiclan, the asset capital, and the estimate suggests that the chinampas, like the floating islands, could produce food for thousands of people. Are you enjoying the history lesson? Yeah. Yeah. And they were said to produce up to seven harvests per year due to the fertile soil and the efficient irrigation system. So they grew a variety of crops including corn, beans, squash, tomatoes, chilis, and

other vegetables and flowers. Alexis, are you okay? She is dying over here. Continue. Do you need a minute? No, I'm good. Okay. And like I said, it's just a quick history lesson, but some sources estimate that the Chinampas,

those floating islands, provided enough food I said, it's just a quick history lesson, but some sources estimate that the Chinampas, those floating islands, provided enough food to feed around 200,000 people, which was crucial for supporting the dense urban population of Teochitlan. And it's estimated that there was about 200,000 to 300,000 inhabitants at its peak. So that's where they got their primary source of food. And they're still used nowadays. Like if you're to like visit and you're to like take a trajinera down the canal, they use them to grow flowers, vegetables, and other crops. And because it's such a unique location, due to its unique agricultural method and historical significance, in 1987, Xochimilco became a UNESCO World Heritage Site.

Okay, that's cool. Yeah, so it just kind of offers that glimpse into the pre-Hispanic and colonial past of the region. Yeah. But now back to the story that we're here for. I just wanted to give you a little bit of the surroundings, like build the atmosphere, build the scene. Yeah, world building. Yeah, exactly. So this story actually starts in 1950s, in the 1950s, when Don Julian Santana Barrera, that's his full name.

Yeah. Well, I'll either call him Don Julian or Julian to make it easier rather than a full name. Okay. No, call him Don. Don. I don't know him like that. So supposedly in the 1950s, supposedly, taken with a grain of salt, he left his wife and child. I'll talk about why I said supposedly in just a minute, but not much is known of who they were or why

he left them. And the reason I said supposedly is because according to an interview from one of the interviews they did with his nephew, his nephew's name, Anastacio, he says that Don Julian, his uncle was never married. So, yeah, some people out there said that he left his wife and child. According to his nephew, he was never married. Okay. Yeah. So we're going to go right now with the row that he was never married, just because that's what the nephew said.

And I find that more reliable than unknown sources. Yeah, it does seem a little more reliable. Yeah, so like I said, this is in the 1950s. And he decided to move into a small island in the Canals of Xochimilco to live in peace and tranquility. And he was just known for being a divided religious man, and he was dedicated to just tending the land and growing plants. Kind of like a hermit type of thing, like he just kept to himself. I love that. Yeah.

He would go out into, like, the city to, like, purchase things, but like. He's had his residents in this island and that's where he must have his time. Now this is where we have three different versions of how the story started and I'm gonna share all three of them with you because I really can't get like a straight answer from anyone. Yeah. So one of the versions says that one day Don Julian saw a young girl drowning, that she was tangled in some water lilies and that he couldn't help her. Another version of the story says that Don Julian simply found the girl already drowned and that her body was found in the banks of

the Chinampas. And the last version says that according to some of his relatives and some people, Don Julian simply imagined, wow, imagined in the girl's heart. Imagine seeing a girl drowning. Yeah. So there's versions that he said he found a girl drowning, that he saw a girl drowning, and that maybe he made it all up. He imagined. Yeah. So either way, this is the origin of the Island of the Dolls. Yeah.

And yeah. So the story continues that Don Julian suffered nightmares of the girl drowning and that he was like tortured by her screams. And shortly after those like nightmares, he saw a doll floating near the canals. And he just thought that it belonged to the girl. So he picked it up and he hung it on a tree. Yeah, okay. Valid. Nothing wrong with that. Yeah. And that's how it all started. So from that moment, Don Julian began to collect dolls and parts of dolls from the canals or the garbage and he would hang them in trees on the island. It was said that he traded produce that he grew, like local produce, for some dolls. And according to some versions, like he would go out into the city, just do his grocery shopping

or whatever he had to. and sometimes on the way back he would find just like dolls around like in trash or just laying around he would take them with him oh my god yeah so according to some versions of the story this is once again where there's like two different versions um he did this to protect himself from the spirit of the girl who he believed had possessed him. And other stories say that it was a way of him showing respect for the spirit of the girl that drowned. So he was just like, yeah, I'm possessed by this girl. I need to collect every single doll that I find ever. Yeah. Though it was one or the other. Like I said, there's multiple versions out there. So he started to continue adding dolls. And this is something that might sound kind of familiar, but you know,

the island continued to grow with the dolls for the next 50 years. The island continued to grow with the dolls for the next 50 years. So for 50 years, he was just cutting the dolls. Yeah. Wow. So he started creating either willingly or like unknowingly, like a creepy and disturbing collection. Some people say that he didn't clean up the dolls or attempt to fix them. He just put them up with like missing eyes or limbs covered in dirt and like whatever ranch he found them in. Some

people said that like he would actually just try to like clean them up and then he would put them up. But even when like dolls arrived in good shape, like you found them in good shape, it was 50 years, the wind, the weather, rain, anything would eventually crack them or like give them like a distorted version of what the original doll was. Yeah. Yeah. So he ended up turning this entire island into like a bizarre, some people say horrifying, doll-infested wonderland. I love it. That's kind of cool. I support it. Cut it out. Yeah.

No, that's fine. Maybe it became like a hobby. It kind of seems like it. Yeah, because it doesn't seem like he was going too much out of his way to collect dolls. Maybe he was, I don't know. Maybe, like digging in trash cans and stuff. Yeah, but it's like 50 years of dolls. So at this point it's not just like a random thing he's doing, it's just like a way to spend his time, I guess. It really well could be. Yeah.

Now, he wasn't like, like I said, he wasn't cut off from society living in the island. And he got visits from his nephew, Anastacio, who was in the interview. And his nephew, Anastacio, was quite involved and supportive of Don Julian. So he continued adding dolls and dolls for 50 years until in 2021. Whoa, 2001. Big time jump. Yeah, 2001, where his nephew, Ernestastio, would find his uncle Julian dead next, dead. And some people say that he was dead next to the shore, where like he found the body of the dead girl.

So some people think that it was like the girl claiming him. I heard a story out there that he was like fishing with his nephew and like his nephew went to get more bait or something he like stepped away from a minute and as he was stepping away Don Julian was saying that there was something in the water that was gonna get him and then when like, an assassin came back, the uncle was dead. That's actually like really ominous. Yeah, I mean, if it's true that there was a girl and that he was dead in the same spot that the girl was found, that's where it's kind of like, OK, I don't know how much of a coincidence that is.

Yeah, exactly. Like it was kind of like predicted, no? Yeah. They did an autopsy on him and it kind of just showed that it was a heart attack. And one of the interviews with Anastacio, he tells a story of, you know, he just retells the story of how his uncle Don Julian hung the dolls in trees to scare away the spirits of the girl. But as time went by, he would think that there would be other things out to get him, so he would add more dolls kind of to protect him from like everything he saw at night. Now after Don Julian passed away, his nephew took over. And the nephew says that in his years taking over the island, that he will hear his uncle

Julien walking around and dragging himself with a cane. As Julien got older in his years, he would require a cane to move around. And that's what his nephew Anastasia says that he hears, like, the uncle with the cane. And he said that he's heard him over 15 times. Damn! Yeah. And that he's also seen some shadows around. Yeah. And that he's also seen some shadows around. I wonder if that would feel like scary at all, or if it's just like them seeing their, like, uncle... Well, yeah, I mean...

Not even converting in a way, but like, oh like oh like he's here still type of thing Yeah, that's what I'm thinking as well cuz it's you know, it's your uncle you spend time with him You visited him and you've not have an encounter. You just kind of heard him around Exactly. Yeah, the shadows would definitely be more like concerning. I mean But that's about it. But an associate and a sassio and some people that have visited the island do mention that some of the dolls will move

from one location to another. Okay. And he said that for the first three months when he took over, that he would just would not be able to spend the night on the island. But now he actually spends some nights here and there on the island. Interesting. So like he... Okay, so he would still spend it even though he wasn't like fully comfortable at first being there, I guess, but he's... Yeah. Like he would probably go to like to take care of the crops or whatever he was growing. Yeah, that makes sense.

Or clean it up, you know? But he wouldn't spend the night. And now, after like three months, he got a little bit more comfortable and he would start spending the nights there. Yeah. So, there's also... I mean, both of you have heard of them. Heard of the Island of the Dolls. And some

popular shows have gone to like do their own investigations. Several TV shows have featured like La Isla de las Muñecas. And of course, they are going to highlight the eerie atmosphere, like the legends, the dolls. So I'm going to name some shows that have gone there in case you want to check them out. From Travel Channel, Ghost Adventures has gone. From Sci-Fi, Destination Truth, of course, Buzzfeed Unsolved has gone. Yeah, okay, Buzzfeed Unsolved. Yeah, I remember.

Yeah. That was like years ago. Yeah. It's an older episode nowadays, yeah. There's also an Amazon Prime series called Lore. And it... I tried watching this one because I'm like, oh, I have Amazon Prime, let me check it out.

I was disappointed. If you want to check it out, it's season one, episode six. But it's like the first ten minutes are about the first five minutes are about the island and like the rest of the episode it's about a different doll somewhere else in the world oh it's not an episode dedicated to the island of the dolls but they mention it there okay from the Discovery Channel there's a series called Expedition X and there's a History Channel series called the

Unbelievable, the Unbelievable, Unbelievable with Dan Ackroyd. Okay. Now I tried finding some stories from people that post them on like reddit or a blog or something like that I was able to find a story from independent.co.uk So this is a story from a man called Dino and Dino has been working as a traginero. Tino, what did you think I said? Dino. Dino?

Yeah. No, his name is Tino. Yeah. He's worked as a traginero, you know, with those big boats carrying people from one place to another one. For five decades, so 50 years. And he said that steering the boats through the canals, he said to have seen many otherworldly things.

Interesting. And that goes back to how superstitious people are, because once once again this was pretty much used by the Aztecs at some point. It goes back years. Yeah. And the story that he says says that one day he took three girls to the island and he explained that two of the girls wanted to go but the other one who claimed to be psychic was reluctant. Go ahead. I would say that's kind of funny. I don't know. I think it will be funny to be like, kicks are always kind of funny with their reactions. Yeah, I'm sure. I mean, I feel like especially when it's overhyped or like when it's like a popular destination or known place.

Exactly. But she was encouraged by her friends and she eventually gave in and they headed into the island. Dino, the traquinero, he took the girls and about five minutes later, the girls came running back. Oh shit. Yeah. And the one girl that did not want to come to the island was crying and between her sobs, she screamed that the doll was laughing.

That's funny. I'm sorry. No, like I'm laughing at it, but I would be scared shitless if a doll laughed at me. No, yes, same. But at the same time, that's so funny to think about. Like, a doll laughing at you. No, I'm sure, like, in this story, you want to laugh at it, but being in their shoes, it would be, like, terrifying.

Mm-hmm. No, yeah. No, seriously. Yeah, so Tito said that he was going to go check it out to make them feel better and that they were wrong. But when he got into like when he started walking into the island, he was said that he could hear the sounds of the laughter too. Oh, so it's why he shares the story. It's not like a story of like, oh, this is what the girls told me. It's like, oh, this is what happened to the girls. And then

I also heard one of the dolls laugh. Okay. That's crazy. Yeah. And he said that the doll that was laughing was dressed as a rabbit. Yeah. And he was like, I promise you,

I couldn't believe what I was seeing. What? Yeah. Wait, what? That's crazy. I will actually send you right now some of the pictures of the island. Okay, the first picture I sent you is a picture of Don Julian with one of the dolls.

And here's a few more pictures of the dolls. They're all over the place. Oh. Oh. Looks like my dad. That's racist. I can't believe it. Damn bro! It's honestly, it's really interesting to like learn that I can't believe it. Damn bro.

It's honestly it's really interesting to like learn that there is actual like history and a story behind this place and it's not just like a doll island. Like yeah, they're like it started at some point. No one really knew why and then you can also see a picture there of the of Don Julian I think the most recent picture I sent you there's a picture on the wall and that's the picture of Don Julian as well okay as you see like there's all sorts of dolls. YouTubers go there all the time. Some people will take like their own dolls as a token of like, hey, like, offering type of thing, or like protection

of like, hey, we're just here to check it out. So you find all types of dolls like Barbies, Bratz, porcelain things, things that require batteries, everything. Oh my god. Little robots. I'm gonna be real, like, I don't know how I would feel about bringing my own doll there. Well, like... Yeah. I don't know, that's kind of like, like infringing upon it in a way. Yeah, no, yeah. But I also could see how it's, I guess, like, protection or something like that.

Yeah, some people bring it like an offering of like hey if There's anything here. Don't follow me home. Here's a doll for you Yeah Yeah, you can see how there is a variety of them definitely, so if one more thing that I found out during this during this whole research is that if you or we want to go to the Island of the Dolls, it's possible. There's tours that happen there.

I would like to. But when you get at Traginera, that boat, and they start taking you there, it's about an hour boat ride. Oh, shit. And the reason I bring this up is because other people have tried to imitate the Island of the Dolls, and it would be like a 20 minute boat ride. So if like when you get on the boat and like you're you're on your way you can see it like right off the bat. That's not the one don't have them take you to that one because that's not the real island of the dolls. Oh, so there's going to be like like fake.

Like islands of the dolls like on the way to the real one. Yeah, like imitations have a thing. Yeah, so if you get there too soon, or if you can see it right off the bat, way to the real one. Yeah like imitations have a thing. Yeah so if you get there too soon or if you can scare right off the bat that's not the one it's about an hour boat ride. Interesting that's honestly really weird that they do that but I guess like perhaps. Yeah tourism there is like I mean of course you have to pay to like take the boat. Like here's some things that I had a little thing from Atlas Obscura of like know before you go to like Xochimilco. Yeah. So the borough is about 17 miles south of the city of Mexico City. And the best way to get there is to leave from the Embarcadero and it's four hours round trip. Okay, so

it's two hours, not one hour away. It's a two hour boat ride. It's a four hour round trip and it costs roughly around 75 US dollars. Okay. Yeah. And just to keep an eye out for the wildlife during your boat trip, nothing will attack you. Just like common-seen creatures like pelicans, kingfishers, egrets, and like other types of water snakes. Egrets? Yeah.

Fun. And other than that, yeah, um, quick disclaimer to anyone that wants to go to such a musical from our listeners or when we go, do not expect clear waters. This was never a place that had clear waters. It's something that was, I'm not sure if it was human made by the Aztecs or if something that they just took advantage of. But the waters are murky. If you've seen those TikToks of like the Seance River in France, in Paris, it's dirty water.

It's kind of what you're going to find here. Yeah. So, yeah, not good for swimming. Don't go dip your tail. Your toe. Don't drink the water. Don't drink the water. Yeah. Yeah. And if you want to take Traginera, have fun with it. You can hire Mariachi to take with you. If you forget your snacks, there will be smaller boats that will sell snacks on the canal as well.

So whatever you need, they have for you. That's so sick, actually. Yeah. It also shows like how touristy it's become. Yeah. And that is the Island of the Doll dolls for you. Awesome. Thank you. I have always wanted to go. When I went to Mexico in February and I came back, Omero asked me, did you go to the island of the dolls? And I was like, no, I actually wasn't even in that state.

And then he was like, oh, okay. But yeah, people have heard of it. Yeah. Yeah, the only knowledge I have is like the distinct memory, or not the distinct memory, but it's literally like one single frame that I picture in my head. And I'm pretty sure it's just the thumbnail of the Buzzfeed Unsolved video of them just like looking at all the dolls in the dark on the island. Yeah. That's the only thing that I know of. I remember them recording the boat ride. Yeah. And also you're able to go at night. You just have to find the right trajinero

because not all of them will go to the island at night. And once again it comes to the superstitious like aspect around it. Some people don't want to go, some people will be like, yeah that's fine I'll take you. Okay. Yeah. We gotta go. I am so done. My dad's from Mexico City. Is he? Yesam. You should ask him if he's ever gone. I did. Or let's ask him if he thinks of it. A while back. Oh, he said he wanted to go.

Okay. You know, road trip with your dad? Yeah. Yeah. He gets time to bond. I would need to go to my headquarter to get his teeth fixed anyways. Oh, really? Yeah.

I thought that was happening here. No, I said it was happening in Mexico. You either did not tell me or I forgot. One of those, and either way, he's going to Mexico. Fair. Yeah. those and either way he's going to make there. Yeah. Yeah. So he might do it here.

I don't know. It depends. Anyways, thank you for telling us that wonderful. You're welcome. His stream lesson. Give you a vivid image of so Chimico and the Island of the dolls. Yeah, we have to go to Island of the Dolls. Yeah. Sick.

We have to go. To the pile. I am so down. We gotta go to a bunch of places. Do we have a list? We do. We gotta start making a list. I mean, I'm sure we might have a list.

Wait, can I make the list? We still have to go fencing. We still have to do that. We do. Vanguard. Okay. But do. Fungi. Okay. But hey, slow progress has been made. USS Hornet is out of the way.

Alcatraz is out of the way. We could not do Bigfoot Discovery Museum, but maybe next time. Or the Mystery Spot, but maybe next time. We'll be going back. Yeah. We got time for the mystery spot but maybe next time we'll be going back yeah yeah we we got time for those we need to make an episode about our experience at the Alcatraz or actually nevermind yeah i don't know i don't know if any of us have experiences at Alcatraz nevermind um i had an experience but it wasn't paranormal. No, that's what I mean.

Not like our paranormal experience, but our experience overall. Okay. Yeah, because when you say experience, I think- Oh, I'm just talking about it. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Fair. Okay. Bad and I would say bad and then no. Let us know if you want to hear our experience just walking around. We'll do it.

Like any other like haunted places or places we've been or anything like that. Or just give us places to go put on our list. Send us places. We will go eventually. I'm making the list right now. When we've got the phones to do so. Actually after this we'll talk but I was going to say on the Google Drive I have like a Google map for like a haunted road trip and it's literally just haunted locations.

Oh my goodness. It's not very big. It's just California for now. So you can continue out in there. Okay, I can't help it. I'll also make a list just from my social. Anyways, okay. Yeah, so Kai, you get to close this off. Yeah, take it away. Right. Last but not least. Thank you for your singing. All right. So have you guys ever had molasses?

Yes. I honestly don't even know if I've ever had molasses before. I had to look up what it was and And it's it's it's basically just like condensed sugar syrup. Yeah. So I was like, Oh, okay, that kind of disappointing. I thought it'd be something cooler. Yeah. But I mean, if you think about it, it's kind of cool if you just eat it like that. It's just food full of molasses. No, no, because I'm saying people around me would see you eating something black. Mlazes.

Oh, OK. And be like, what are you eating? That's the only thing I'm thinking about. Mlazes. I'm thinking of how people would react around people. Wait, isn't brown sugar just like sugar with molasses? Brown sugar, I believe so. So they just put sugar into more sugar to make brown sugar? Molasses is like molasses is like sugar cane oh brown sugar does contain molasses

but it's brown it's molasses with refined white sugar so it's the combination of both so they just put more sugar into sugar to make that god damn it you're right oh my god what am i learning about the world yeah um anyway yeah you're right. Oh my God, what am I learning about the world? Yeah. Anyway. Yeah, you're right. No, like that wasn't even me being to be like proving you wrong or whatever. It was just like, what the fuck?

No, no, no. I never thought of it like that way. And you're right. It's sugar mixed with sugar. Refined. All right. So, um. Molasses. Yeah, I like we went on a tangent and it's not related at all, but like it's kind of related. Okay.

I was about to say that I was like, just watch us talk about molasses for 10 minutes and your story has nothing to do with molasses. Yeah I just had a question for you guys. A lot of shit happens in Boston. A lot of shit has happened in Boston over the years. Yeah. And I won't get into it. Like the Winchester. What? What? What? Boston, Alexis. Yeah, the medium. Oh, the medium from Boston. Okay. Yeah. Oh, I was so confused as well. Yeah, I thought you said win. And I was like Winchester in Boston. I was like, what do you mean? Anyway, Boston, a lot of stuff happens. Yeah. A lot of really bad stuff. Yeah. And surprisingly... I assume you're not telling us a good thing that happened?

I mean, at first glance, you kind of laugh at it. But then you read more into this and it's just like, oh, that's not good. That's actually really bad. Like really bad? Oh, okay. Yeah. So what I'm talking about is the Great Molasses Flood. I'm sorry.

The Boston Molasses Disaster. Yeah. that... This is where you guys laugh. Well, I'm processing what you said. I know you said flood and molasses. Molasses. The great molasses flood of 1919. In my head, you're just not credible. That's so funny. The great molasses flood of 1919.

It's like how does molasses flood? But anyway. Wednesday, January 15th, 1919. Of course in Boston, Massachusetts. The locals around there, they were going about their day. They were, you know, working, going to their jobs, living in the residential community of North End. It's the oldest, like, community in Boston, essentially. So people were living their lives, and they were next to the big railroad, the big elevated

railroad area, what the trains would come through to bring in the cargo and all of these things to get business going through Boston. And right next to it was a huge tank of molasses. You said huge. How big? You said huge. How big? Yes. 50 feet tall, 90 feet in diameter. It was a giant tank.

Just filled with molasses. 50 feet tall is crazy. Do you call that a tank or do you call that a building? It was a tank but I don't know, it was Jenkins. How heavy? Very. Oh my god. What the hell?

They didn't really think much of it. So this tank was sitting, it was at the purity distilling company facility at 529 Commercial Street there in the North End neighborhood of Boston. When at around 1230 p.m. in the afternoon, somewhere around lunchtime, the people in the area were suddenly surprised by a 25 foot wave of 2.3 million balance, brother? What? Yeah. 25 feet, brother? That's a tsunami, brother. No, literally. Jay, what do you have to say? I am just nodding my head like no, because... I should match my head, Ben. I'm sorry, no.

I'm trying to imagine people's... I wouldn't either. And like their heart stopping for a second. No, literally, yeah. 25 feet tall, 2.3 million gallons, weighing about 13,000 tons. And this wave traveled at about 35 miles an hour down the streets through the buildings. And the entire area was just flooded with molasses. flooded with molasses. Yeah.

Oh my god. What's the consistency of it? Is it like thick? Very. So molasses is about 40 to 50 percent thicker and more dense than water is. So it's a syrup. It's a thick syrup. Yeah. And it was coming at them like. It's a syrup. It's a thick syrup. Yeah. And it was coming at them like crazy. Yajay? No, I am just trying to picture these houses, these buildings.

People. Children's dogs. What do you do? No, seriously. And that's exactly what it happens. Like, at first you laugh at it. It's like, what the fuck? Big wave of molasses that goes. But then you think of the people. You think of the children, the dogs, the horses that were in this dock area surrounded by the company of the commercial areas there.

I didn't even think of the horses. Now I'm scared for the horses. Yeah. Twenty-one people died. 150 people were injured. So many animals passed away as well. They were trapped under all the rubble, suffocating under the, you know, foot-tall flood of molasses on the ground.

And so it's a lot, like I said, like a lot more horrible than you really think at first glance. So the reason why it was even there in the first place is because back at that time, like they were preparing for essentially like World War I, they're trying to help create the munitions, the explosives, things like that for use in the war. And molasses was actually a primary thing used to help ferment and produce alcohol or ethanol, like industrial alcohol. And so that was being used given to the military to create all their explosives and things like that. So there was a huge use for molasses during that time. So there was a big tank of molasses. Yeah, that was just stored towards like the harbor

side towards the Boston Harbor right around there. It was just a street tank owned by the purity distilling company. And so they distilled alcohol for commercial use for the military as well as just like personal consumption as well. So there was this huge tank that was there. So it was just sitting there. January 15th, it was still pretty cold. It was really the middle of winter there. Really cold, but on January 15th, it got up to about 40 degrees Fahrenheit, which was actually pretty warm compared to just a few days prior. So the temperature increased very rapidly

as well as the day before January 14th, a ship had come in with also millions of pounds of molasses being shipped. And so they completely filled up that tank that was just sitting there. It was fully packed with all that molasses. And so that warmed molasses from the temperature of the day as well as it just being shoved into there. The thermal expansion, the very quick fermentation and all the gas that was produced from it is what was is widely considered to be what caused the tank to burst open at around 1230. So it actually says that there are like, of course, lots of witnesses nearby. There are a lot of people in that commercial and residential area.

They said they felt the ground shake and they heard like a huge roar. Like I mentioned, that tank was sitting pretty close to some of the elevated like railroads essentially around there. So a lot of people thought it was just one of those elevated trains that was coming through to bring in a delivery. Oh no. And when they saw it, it was too late. Yep. So they looked up, they heard a huge bang, a crash, and they saw a 25-foot wave of black. Just coming towards them. Whoa, dude. They also said that there was the sound of like a machine gun going off. And it's because the metal rivets that were just being shot out of that.

Oh, like a scene from a movie. Yeah. Like a cartoon. Like Terminator. It caused so much damage. It burst the steel panels of the tank apart. It pushed over one of the street cars on the tracks of that railroad. Buildings were swept off of their foundations,

crushed, and just completely collapsed into the floor. Some of the blocks around the area were flooded to two or three feet tall. No! Imagine waiting in three feet of molasses. molasses? That's insane. There's actually a report from like the Boston Post of a quote from somebody back then. It says, molasses waist-deep covered the street and swirled and bubbled about here and there struggled a form, whether it was animal or human being was impossible to tell. Just thrashing out in the sticky mess, horses died, the more they struggled the deeper they... human beings, men and women suffered likewise. Yeah, cuz you can't float on this. Nope. Because you are literally stuck. Like you're pulled down, it is sticky as hell. And then also the the collapsed structures

of the buildings were weighing down as well as being pushed down by the weight of the molasses itself. And so that mixed with the actual, this initial explosion itself, it was so strong that people were like actually pushed back by like the rush of the air and the debris that was going to be hurled. So it was pretty warm. Um, that molasses was pretty warm though when it did explode because of the rising temperature. But after it came out and it was exposed to the cold air, it started to cool down once again. So it became even thicker, even more viscous, continuing to trap the people that were inside. Holy crap, that's insane.

And I'm literally picturing, like when you see, like in horror movies, like a figure walking like from like a blob of something, some black goo. That is what I'm picturing. Yeah, like pictures just covered in black goo. Yeah. Like, pictures just covered in black goo. There's a man named Edwards Park. He wrote in a Smithsonian article in 1983. He wrote of a child experience during the collapse, the explosion. A child named Anthony Di Stasio. It says that he was walking. Okay, I'm echoing. I don't know who's echoing.

It's you. If you click you can actually fix your settings to have it echo cancellation. I don't know if it's gonna let you or not. You just echoed to you're done echoing. Am I? Yeah. Okay.

All right. Yeah, it looks like we're good. So, okay, so a child he said he was walking home with his sisters when he was picked up by the wave and carried, tumbling on its crest almost as though he were surfing. No, I don't like this. I don't like this. He heard his mother call his name and couldn't answer. His throat was so clogged with the smothering goo. He passed out and opened his eyes to find three of his four sisters staring at him. So luckily that kid did survive. Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, for sure.

Everyone. No, like, that's crazy. I remember, like, when I was little, like one time I was at the beach in Hawaii, and there's this one beach is we call it big beach, because the waves are actually pretty huge there. And so one time I was going in and I'm super confident in water, at least I was as a kid. So maybe a little too overconfident. But I went in and a wave just completely took me and it slammed me into the ground and I actually lost my breath and I inhaled a lot of water. And so I like was fighting to like crawl myself out from the beach and like cough up this water that I swallowed. And I was

like traumatized for the rest of the day, like going into the water. Um, so I can kind of imagine maybe how that kid felt. Yeah, it won't be so easy to cough out because it's a lot thicker. Seriously, it's stuck in your lungs. That's crazy. So immediately after the aftermath of what had happened, there were a bunch of people that rushed to the scene, you know, the Boston police, the Red Cross members, but some of the first people to get there were actually a bunch of cadets. So Navy cadets from

the USS Nantucket. It was a training ship of the nautical school, the Massachusetts nautical school. It was docked nearby because it was sort of like the harbor area. So 116 cadets ran to what was happened. And so they ran, they tried to, to you know wade through the knee-deep Molasses that was there to pull out survivors Everybody joined in so I'm realizing as this is happening as this cadets are running in as this kids are kids are getting swept away Pete this people don't know that it's molasses Yeah they did though, actually. And

that helps me into that they know it was molasses. So it does lead me into, I guess, the most horrible part in a way about this story. It wasn't just a freak accident that this tank blew up. Are you telling me it's happened before? No. So initially, like the owners from the distilling company, the owners of the tank, they were like, oh, this was somebody who tried to purposely blow up our tank to cause disaster. But really, that was just to cover up their incompetence. that the actual tank itself was built not too far away. So it was actually a pretty new tank that was made to hold all of this molasses. It was built, I think, in just the

previous year. But there were very obviously leaks and cracks in the tank It was it was rushed to be built because they really there was so much Need Need for all the molasses production from the military from People as well. So there were literal leaks Inside of this tank and so children from around the area, they would go up to the tank with cups, with buckets, and they would just collect molasses for themselves to take home with them.

Oh, that's cute. But now look at the... So they knew that there was molasses in here. they knew it was leaking, and they brought it up to the officials. They brought it up to the owners, the distillery company. What they did was they denied it whatsoever, and then they painted the tank a dark brown to help disguise the leaking molasses that was coming out of it. That is so bad. And so it was pretty, you know, quickly decided back during that time, around like, you know, the next few years were so 1925, by 1925, 10 years later, it was in court, it was decided that it was the negligence of the owners of the tank that

were to blame for its collapse and for all the death and damage that it caused. And that's just even more backed up by modern research that has been done. So there's been analysis by modern scientists and structural engineers from, you know, 2014, so not long ago. They re-examined this? They re-examined it and they determined that the tank itself was not equipped to hold that much molasses at all. Yeah, I think you're echoing Alexis, like I can hear from it. Yeah. So the the tank was not designed to hold that much. It was built super quick. And so in its construction, the steel wasn't fully set. It wasn't thick enough. Research shows that it was way too thin to support the weight of a full tank of molasses. Because typically, they only kept it half or

three quarters of the way full essentially. They only had it full to the brim like a couple of times. So it was not designed to actually hold the full weight of all of that molasses, the 2.5 million gallons that were supposed to be in it. It was not strong enough to hold it. So they rushed the design of it. The riveting that was put in was flawed. They didn't secure them well enough. The rivet holes were stressing too hard with the weight of all that molasses. So cracks started to form. And it even got to the point where It even got to the point where it said that there was an analysis that happened in 2015, and they actually said, does it count from like that time? It's a quote, they say,

when the laborer brought actual shards of steel from the tank's walls into the treasurer's office as evidence of the potential danger, he replied, I don't know what you want me to do, the tank still stands. So they knew that this tank was literally falling apart, it was cracking open, but they did nothing about it, and that's the reason why it exploded. Thank you. I have no words. Am I still not going? I'm not sure. No, so by echoing I meant I can hear myself through your mic as well as hearing Jay through your mic. But I think we're good now. So yeah, it was just the negligence of the workers that caused this. And so this situation is actually one of the biggest reasons why we have so many modern regulations along construction and engineering.

There's so many processes of actually needing to fully verify and sign and seal plans with all the building inspectors and architects that need to do all of these examinations on structures. It's very much due to this disaster that happened in Boston. People died. Mm hmm. Ah, molasses. I'll never look at it the same.

No, like, now there's this irrational fear that if I see something like a black liquid, it's molasses coming from somewhere. Yeah. What if it was molasses that was leaking from your Airbnb in your hand? I wouldn't have lost it. No, no, no, no. If it's coming down and it's black and it's sticky, I don't want anything to do with it. I'm out. At that point, you can pay for

my therapy as well. Got it, got it. Oh No Cool well, that's the the Boston molasses disaster, so thanks for listening I'm not sure We all have a rational here. This is my new irrational fear. I love that. Getting asphyxiated by a 25-foot wave of molasses. Yeah. Honestly, valid fear. I mean, it's not a fear without ground. It did happen once. Yeah, it happens. That's... Yeah. What are we? Thank you, Ty. Well, thank you everybody for listening.

Thank you. Oh, you have outdone yourself. Well, I wouldn't say that. I just talked about molasses for like half an hour, so... Fair. Yeah. Enjoyable and horrific at the same time. Yeah. I don't want to try some just straight molasses now. Like what does it actually taste like by itself? I had no idea. I mean I assume it's just going to be extremely sweet since it's...

Well we have to try it. Have you ever had raw honeycomb? No, but I've always wanted to. I had it one time when I was in high school, I think, and it was really sweet. Like really sweet. But it was good. I like honey a lot. I don't know what you guys put on your pancakes but as a Mexican we put honey on our pancakes. Yes I love honey on pancakes. Have you guys had, I grew up, I grew up eating this shit. A peanut butter, banana and honey sandwich.

Oh, yes. That's so good. It's so good. Oh, my God, I want one right now. Listeners, try it if you're not allergic to any of the components of this. Yeah, no, it's it's good. Cool. Yeah, no, it's it's good. Cool. Yeah. And I that's one of my like childhood foods that like I completely forgot about. I love it. It's literally still your favorite. It's still, yeah, you will eat it no matter where you are. No matter. No matter the weather.

I could tell you hey Alexis here's some arroz con leche. It might taste, it might smell a little bit like almond because I put some you know arsenic on it but that's fine. And you would still eat it. Alright I'll take it. That came out of nowhere. it but that's fine and you would still yeah well i'm just iisoned or not. Thanks. Yeah, sorry Alexis. If it smells like almond, it's not arsenic, it's cyanide.

Okay, thank you for letting me know that way. I know how I'm going. Anyway, thank you for listening, folks. Thank you, everybody. Have a great night. Bye bye. Stretch, drink water. Bye. Thanks for watching!