Chambers of the Occult - EP# 33 A Nation's Wake-Up Call: The Disappearances of Etan Patz & Adam Walsh | Podcasthon 2025 Special

Episode Date: March 20, 2025

Send us a textFor this special episode of Chambers of the Occult, we’re honored to be part of Podcasthon 2025, a powerful event bringing together over a thousand podcasts to support charities making a real impact. This year, we’re shining a light on the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children (NCMEC)—an organization dedicated to finding missing children, fighting child exploitation, and supporting families in their darkest moments.In this episode, Kai covers the case of Etan Patz, the six-year-old boy whose disappearance in 1979 forever changed the way missing children cases are handled in the U.S. His case led to groundbreaking changes, including the establishment of National Missing Children's Day.Then, J takes on the tragic case of Adam Walsh, whose 1981 abduction and murder shocked the nation and led his father, John Walsh, to become a relentless advocate for missing children—ultimately leading to the creation of NCMEC itself.Together, we discuss the lasting impact of these cases, the life-saving work of NCMEC, and how we can all help protect the most vulnerable.Listen now, stay informed, and support the cause at missingkids.orgPlus, check out more incredible podcasts supporting meaningful causes at podcasthon.org

It is a crisp spring morning in New York, the kind where the air still carries its chill, but the sun is just warm enough to keep you comfortable. It's May 25th, 1979. We're in the SoHo neighborhood of Lower Manhattan, where the streets, the people are just waking up. It's a normal enough day, a familiar rhythm, one that six-year-old Itan Patz has watched from his apartment window countless times. But today is different.

Today is the first time he'll walk to the bus stop alone. Just two blocks, nothing too difficult. A straight shot from his apartment to the corner of Prince Street and West Broadway. His parents have gone over the rut with him, reassured him that he has got this. And he does. He's an excited little boy, his smile bright, he has his favorite hat on, he's dressed in a future flight captain decorations, he has a dollar in his pockets to buy a soda at the corner store. He lives the apartment in the morning, 8am. His mom, Julie Patz, watches from the window as he disappears down the sidewalk. She doesn't know it yet, but this will be the last time she ever sees her son.

By afternoon, the panic sets in. The school says Itan never even arrived. The police are called. And Itan's face, his smile, will soon become one of the first missing children's faces to be printed everywhere, printed on a milk carton, posters. He was the boy who simply vanished in broad daylight. He was the boy who simply vanished in broad daylight. But what happened to Itan Pats? Why did it take so long for someone to be convicted of his murder? And how did his disappearance change the way that missing children are supported and investigated everywhere in the future? That's what we'll be talking about here today. Wow. So welcome back. Yeah. Welcome to Chambers of the Occult. I'm a little bit more somber-ish,

a little more straight to the point. But that's because this is a bit of a different episode, isn't it, Jay? Yeah. We're doing a double true crime episode this week. And that is because we're honored to be a part of the third edition of Podcaston, a powerful event where over a thousand podcasts around the world unite to amplify the voices of charities making a real difference. And for this special episode, we're going to be shining the light on an organization that has saved countless of lives, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Their mission?

To help find missing children, fight children's exploitation, and support families in their darkest moments. So today, we're delving into two cases that sent shockwaves through the nation, eventually leading to the creation of the NCMEC. The tragic disappearances of Eton Pats, like I just described, and Adam Walsh. Their stories are heartbreaking. Their legacy is undeniable, and the changes sparked by their cases still impact how missing children cases are handled today. Settle in, because this is an important one. Yes, it is.

Hi. You set the scene. This is a really important one, guys. New York and this little kid, Ian, he is going to school for the first time by himself. He is. And before you get more into it, you're out of focus. How long have I been out of focus? It just started. That's what I was like before we have a repeat of last week.

Why do I always get out of focus? Okay, we're good now. Focus Kai, come on. This is important. I'm sorry. This is an important one. Yeah, like I mentioned, it's a nice New York morning. Everything seems normal as normal as it can be in New York. I've never been, but you know, I would love to imagine. Yeah. Anyone from New York? Let us know what it's like. Also, let us know what your thoughts are about this case. If you have any experience, maybe you heard about it on the news growing up, something like that. I guess I have a question.

Yeah, do you remember seeing the missing children's faces on milk cartons and things like that? I don't think I've ever seen one in real life, but I know the concept of it. I know what they're there for. I didn't know that this was the case that started the missing children on a milk carton though. Yeah. So you'll see lots of pictures at it. I'm kind of curious. I'm not sure if you're going to get into it, but I see lots of pictures at it. I'm not sure if you're going to get into it, but I'm kind of curious why we stopped doing that.

Right? Yeah. I actually, spoiler alert, I'm not really going to get into that because it never even occurred to me. I guess we've gotten better about doing things. Yeah. Who knows? Maybe there wasn't a... Yeah, okay. Anyway, get into it, Kai. Anyway, yes. It's on Pats. It's on Kalil Pats. He was born on October 9th, 1972.

1972. And so in the year of his disappearance, 1979, he was six years old. He was on his way to school. Like I mentioned, his mom watched as he walked, but he was never seen again. seen again. Now the details of this case aren't very complex and I'll get through it relatively quickly, but just because the information that's out there doesn't get so crazy long or hard to follow does not mean that this case is any less impactful because you'll see that it changed so much. It influenced so much for the future. So it was the morning of May 25th, 1979. Everything was fine. in. The day goes by, Itan's parents really are not even concerned. Stanley and Julie, they sent him off to school and they believe he's been at school all day long. His teacher obviously realizes that Itan's not there, but she doesn't think too much of it. She doesn't report it to the principal, just sort of marks it down in her attendance sheet. But when it comes time, when school's over, and Itan does not show up back home, that's

when parents Stanley and Julie realize something is very wrong. They hadn't seen him since the morning. Nobody had seen him since the morning. At first, the police have reason to suspect that Stanley and Julie, the parents, are the primary suspects, they say that they were the last people to see him and really the police had nothing else to go onto. Yeah. So they point the blame onto the parents. After questioning investigations, they're ruled out.

Why would the parents do this? They wouldn't have. Yeah, okay. And their attention shifts to another person. Now, this man's name was Jose Ramos. Okay, so not a family member. Not a family member. But the reason why he even was identified as a suspect in the first place is because he did have some sort of connection to the family. So time goes on, they have nothing to go off of. For the next few years, it's pretty much just a cold case. They don't have evidence, but it works its way up through local investigations, district investigations. And eventually this case makes its way to an

assistant United States attorney. His name was Stuart R. Grubois. So at this point, this is a federally investigated case. It's 1985. So it's been six years since this happened. I was going to be like, it didn't go up right off the bat. It took a while. Yeah, no. So it was a while. They had nothing. He literally disappeared. He disappeared. Nobody came forward. There were no witnesses. There was no evidence. Simply a boy who was never seen again. But in 1985, this US attorney identifies a man named Jose Antonio Ramos. And now the reason that they found him, I mentioned there was this connection, was because he actually was sort of a friend of one of Itan's past babysitters. So it was supposedly one of the ladies

who was hired to walk him to school in the mornings. She had a close relationship to this man, Jose Ramos. And after looking into him, the attorneys, the investigators, they found out that he was a convicted child sexual abuser. No. Okay. I was, as soon as you said convicted, I was like, okay, convicted what? Yes. So he had literally all the evidence was pointing in the right direction. He had prior motivation, he had committed these crimes already, and he somewhat was close to this kid, close proximity. I'm sure they even

crossed paths at some point. So Jose probably would not even have been too unfamiliar to Itan. But it kind of gets worse. There was more evidence that was brought up about Jose. Few years prior, there were information that boys in the neighborhood actually said that Jose Ramos tried to lure them into secluded areas, down into a drainpipe area specifically. What? Yeah, so he literally was said to have been trying to lure boys from the neighborhood.

And it was the boys that were coming forward and saying this? Yes, yeah, yeah. And so when the police went to search, they actually searched the drainpipe that was sort of described as a location. They actually found photos of Jose with young boys. And some of them could have even resembled Itan just a little bit. Wait, they just found photos in the pipes? They found photographs down in there.

Like left. That's so wild. Like, yeah, like why would you leave them behind? Mm-hmm. Maybe he forgot. Maybe they slipped out while he was trying to get away. Who knows? But I mean, this guy wasn't really trying

to be all that careful, right? He had already been caught and convicted. So we're in New York right now, but actually he was convicted in Pennsylvania, Ramos was, with of course a child molestation case. So, they really tried to prosecute this guy. The US attorney Stuart Grebois, he went to Pennsylvania, he tried to present this case, prosecute Ramos for the sexual abuse. And during this line of questioning, something that Ramos said really, really got the prosecution excited. Oh, okay.

When he was being questioned, Ramos actually said that on May 25th, the day that Eton did disappear, he actually had lured a young boy back to his apartment to rape him. So this was something that Ramos actually said, but he never specified that it was actually Eton himself. Yeah. I mean, I'm just thinking that this person wouldn't care to ask for their names. But I don't know. Who knows? But with all this info, they thought they had their guy. And you know what? For a time, that thought was enough. You know, Jose Ramos was guilty. He killed Eton. But what evidence did they have?

Yeah, other than like a confession, but not necessarily saying that it was Eton Paz. Yeah, no actual confession, right? No physical evidence, nothing. Sort of like my last case, you know, in our last episode where there was just like no actual evidence, it was all circumstantial. Yeah.

But yeah, Ramos was the prime suspect. From, you know, 1985 to actually the early 2000s, Ramos was the prime suspect. So over 20 years, this guy was being targeted for murdering Eton. Okay, and during those 20 years, were they able to, like, have any evidence point at him? No, nothing. There was nothing. So he wasn't free, right? He was already incarcerated for his previous cases. But they really could not try him for the actual murder of Yatalan himself. Okay. Did he say he murdered the child that he brought back to the apartment?

No, he said to just, he brought him back to rape him. So there was no mention of murder. Okay. I'm just- Yeah. Yeah. They were upset. They couldn't prosecute this guy. They couldn't charge him with anything. And parents, Stanley and Julie, were upset as well. This was the guy who killed our son,

who took our son from us. And so during this time, actually, you know, they made that known, especially Stanley the parents every year, actually. Oh, like, what did they do? So every year, Stanley the father, he would actually send Ramos in jail a picture of the missing child poster, a copy of it. And on the back, he would say, what did you do to my little boy? So almost sort of like a threat or a reminder of- A reminder of like, hey, you're in here

because what you did to this kid. Yeah, it's like, or yeah, it's like, well, technically, like you may not be in here because of that, but we all know what you did type of thing. And did he ever, I don't know. I don't know. I'm just still stuck with the fact that there was pictures in those pipes. Yeah, crazy, right?

Yeah, and that they somewhat look like him, but did the parents confer or like deny that that was her child? No, I mean, from what I've read, they weren't able to like accurately identify. So it was never conclusive. It was just, you know, kids that could have looked like him. Got it, okay. Yeah.

So. Wait, so for how long was this guy in prison? He was in prison for 20 years. Okay. So for 20 years, every single year, he like on the dot, he will receive a picture. Okay. On the anniversary. Um, so he was in prison for 20 years. So he was in prison for 20 years And Eventually he was released he actually got released in November of 2012 But one of the things that registered

Sex offenders or child abusers they have to do is they have to update law enforcement authorities of a change of address or you know their whereabouts. Ramos did not do this so pretty much right after he was released he went right back into prison. Because he didn't update his info? Yeah and you're supposed to. Okay. Yeah it's against the law you know it, it's part of Megan's law. I was in my head, I was like, oh, like he dropped from the face of the like map because he just- Oh, that would have been terrible.

Didn't like update his information. No one knew where he was, but he got put right back into prison. Yeah, he did. Okay. So there was some satisfaction of him being in prison, but there was always just in the back of them of their mind of everyone's in the back of mind, right? It's like, well, what if he's not the one who did it? There was no actual evidence, there wasn't even circumstantial evidence. It was all just rumors or word of mouth whatsoever. But they couldn't do anything about it. Yeah. They literally could not do anything about it. So this case sat cold dormant for 30 years. It happened in 1979. It wasn't until May 25th, the

anniversary, the 31st anniversary, on May 25th 2010 that this case was reopened. Oh, so it's not point it was a closed case? Or just... Well, technically cold cases are never fully closed. Okay, so it just went cold until they... Yeah, I mean, maybe it was closed because Itoen was eventually ruled dead. It was 2001 when he was ruled dead. So maybe that could have affected things, you know? But yeah, it was 2010 when this case was reopened. It was reopened by Cyrus Vance Jr. He was the

district attorney for Manhattan. And so there was investigations that were done. But once again, there wasn't much for them to go off. So for the next two years, there was minimal progression in this case. It wasn't until 2012, two years after it opened up again, that things really took a turn. They had a new suspect. I was giving you like something new. Yeah, something very new, something very new. Okay, so this was 30 years, 31 years? 31 years after.

How did you find a new suspect after 31 years That is a great question Because with the new, you know media and news reports of it People were taking notice once again, right? They saw these things on the news. They saw that this case was opened up. And so, a man named Jose Lopez in 2012, he actually reached out to investigators because he believed that his brother-in-law was responsible for Aten's murder. Holy f— Okay.

Yeah. So, yeah, tell me more, because now I want to know— Yeah. Yeah, so, okay, it was 2012. It's fine. I realized I stopped mid-sentence. I was like, yeah, tell me. I want to know. Oh, you're fine. You're fine. You're fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was 2012. It was early 2012. I don't have the exact date, but I do believe sometime in April that Jose Lopez has called the police and he gave a name, Pedro Hernandez. It was his brother-in-law. So they bring in Pedro on this tip essentially that they get. And now they interview people close to Pedro, they get statements from his sister, mom, from other people around his family,

even people of his church. And so, all of these people make some type of statement that over the years, Pedro has made small little hints or confessions that he committed this murder, who has actually even said that he publicly confessed to it in the church sometime in the early 1980s. It was just, you know, probably talking about the sins that he committed to his church and whatnot. So apparently he confessed to this.

So they started questioning Pedro Hernandez, the police did. They questioned him. And on May 24th, 2012 is when they really did take him into custody. And you know what Pedro did? Confessed. He confessed to everything. He confessed to strangling Ethan. He even wrote a written confession detailing how he choked him. Now, at the start of this case, I mentioned a little tiny detail, right? It was that Eitan went to school with a dollar in his pocket. His plan was to stop at the corner store to buy a soda for himself before school. Well, Pedro Hernandez just so happened

to be the cashier at that little local neighborhood bodega, that corner store that would have been just down the street. Wait, so how did this go down? So he said that he essentially just lured him. He lured him back to the, or lured him down into the basement, I believe. He said he put a plastic bag around Iten, put that bag into a box, and just threw it into the garbage. So he just did it because he could.

Yeah, apparently. I mean, in the questioning that he was had, he actually never stated any clear motive. Pedro did Hernandez, and he actually denied that there were sexual reasons behind it. He said he never raped or sexually molested Ytan whatsoever.

Now that's up for debate on whether that's actually true. Yeah, I mean, at this point it's been 31 years. I doubt that there was a body recovered. Yeah, there wasn't one. In fact, yeah, there was nothing found whatsoever. Actually, in that same year year 2012, April 19th, the police actually excavated the basement. Yeah. And they didn't find anything. There was absolutely nothing that was found. Nothing conclusive is what the investigators did say. So they found him. He was the former bodega

stock clerk at the store just down the street that Eitan was supposedly going to go to. They thought it would be easy. They had what they needed. And so his trial began. It was later that year. It was November 14th, 2012, when the New York grand jury, they indicted Hernandez for second degree murder and first degree kidnapping. There was a whole trial. They deliberated for, I believe it was 18 days that the jury deliberated for. There were 12 people on that jury. And just when they thought they were going to get this conviction, one of the jurors couldn't come to a conclusive decision Wait, so what happened? So the case ended in mistrial

nothing effectively even happened, so This guy is still out there No, so the reason why that one juror was so reluctant to charge Hernandez of this crime is because Hernandez was actually diagnosed with schizotypal personality disorder. It's a type of eccentric personality disorder that comes with hallucinations. It

was also proven or it was also said that Hernandez's IQ was very low. It was a quote, at the border of intellectual disability. So there was doubt on whether what he actually said was true, So there was doubt on whether what he actually said was true, whether he was intelligent enough to understand what was happening in his trial to make that conviction. Yeah. And so that's what the defense relied on. Yeah. So was he sent to like get medical help or anything? Or? sent to like get medical help or anything? No, I mean it wasn't like a... I

don't think it was like anything like a focus to be cured or taken care of. I'm not sure. So a lot of this happened. That mistrial happened in May of 2015. Oh wow. So it was three years later that this all actually even came together. That was 10 years ago. Yeah. But like I said, it ended in a mistrial, but the prosecution was not convinced. They thought that, you know, his mental disabilities were a byproduct, were a side effect, were something that did not even really matter in this case.

So a retrial was called. This retrial happened on October 19th, 2016, New York City Court. The jury deliberated in February of 2017, so at this 14th, 2017, Pedro Hernandez was found guilty of kidnapping and felony murder. And were the parents still alive at this point? They were, yeah. They were alive in 2017. So it was a huge relief for them, right? Yeah. You know, Pedro was sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole after serving at least 25 years.

Okay, so not time yet. Yeah, yeah. So he's still there. Yeah, he's still there. And so this this case was over this disappearance, I guess was solved. You know, it wasn't the outcome. They didn't find the time like they all hoped they would. So it finished then but it never really ended. Because the effects of this case... I mean, not for the parents. Yeah, not for the parents.

I mean, the effects of this case are still lasting here today. That's the entire point of this episode, right? This case was the first major child disappearance in really United States history. This got the most media attention. It made people realize just how scary this was and just how little resources that there were. So... Going back to when you started this episode, this case,

do we know at what point he became the kid in the carton of like the milk? Early 1980s. So really just a year, a couple years after, because you know, at that point, he wasn't declared dead yet. Yeah, he was still missing. Yeah. So actually adding on to that point, So, actually adding on to that point, President Ronald Reagan was in the administration at that time. And so, on May 25th, the day, the anniversary of Itan's disappearance, May 25th, 1983, he did mark as National Missing Children's Day. And so since 1983, every year on May 25th, it is National Missing Children's Day. And this is just another way that awareness has been raised. Okay. Wasn't the only thing though, eventually in 1984, the National Missing Children's Act was

passed. And that act eventually did lead to the creation of the National Center for Missing Children's Act was passed. And that act eventually did lead to the creation of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. But I can let you get a little bit more into that with your case, Jay. So, if you want to take that away. Yeah, no, I'll go ahead and do that. First of all, thank you. That was very informational.

Did not know where the missing children on milk cartons originated from. So it's actually very interesting to know the history behind how it started. Yeah. I honestly never even really thought about it. I think one, I was going to call it a fun fact, but it's not a fun fact because nothing about this case is a fun fact. The reason why his photographs were so easily used was because Itan's dad, Stanley, he was actually a professional photographer. So he had a bunch of professional portraits taken of his son. So they were easy to put out there. Yeah.

Wow. Thank you. Of course. Yeah. So your case was one of the very early ones that contributed to the creation of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. I'm also going to talk about a child that went missing that led to the creation for this National Center of Missing and Exploited Children. So we're going to head away from New York and we're going to head down south to Florida. More specific, Hollywood, Florida, which I think it's just fun to know that there's a Hollywood in Florida too.

Yeah, yeah. Now, to cover the case of Adam Walsh, we have to go back to the year, to the late 1970s, early 1980s. Let me paint the picture. Just growing like in the suburban city located between Miami and Fort Lauderdale on Florida's southeast coast. It was a place known for its beaches, family-friendly neighborhoods, and laid-back lifestyle. The city was a mix of beachside tourism and suburban living, making it just ideal for families that liked that type of lifestyle. Many people moved to South Florida during this period because they were drawn by new job opportunities, warm weather,

and a slower pace of life compared to big cities like New York and Chicago. Yep. So it was a little slower paced. Hollywood had a safe small town feel, even though it was near the bustling cities of Miami and Fort Lauderdale, it was relatively small and it was still safe. Malls, parks, and community centers were popular hangout spots for families. And last but not least, kids would ride their bikes around neighborhoods. They'd walk to school, they'd play outside

without much concern for danger. Shopping malls were still at their peak in the late 70s and early 80s. And they served as places where families and friends could go shopping and just socialize. The typical hangout place after school. Now that the scene has been set, let's talk about who this case revolves around.

Adam Walsh and his family. So Adam Walsh was born on November 14th, 1974 in Hollywood, Florida. To John and Reeve Walsh. He was the couple's first child. And they later had three more children. So he would be the oldest of four. Awesome.

Now, Adam was happy, playful, an outgoing six-year-old who just loves sports, spending time with his family. He had big blue eyes and a bright smile, and like a lot of kids, curiosity about the world. He was just a child full of life. His parents, John and Reeve, were young middle class that lived the American dream in sunny South Florida. They were deeply devoted to their son. And they took great pride raising him. He was supposed to be in what was supposed to be a safe

and family friendly environment. Now, John Walsh was a successful hotel developer, was a successful hotel developer, working in high-end real estate and planning luxury projects. And then the mom, Reeve Walsh, she was a stay at home mother, and she was just dedicated to raising Adam. The family lived in a comfortable home, and they were surrounded by a loving community.

Adam was known to be a sweet kid who loved playing outdoors, riding his bike, and spending time with his parents. In many ways, this is what many would consider idyllic or like the typical family life, family outings, fun in the Florida sun, big dreams for the future. Unfortunately, we all know where this is this case is going. Because everything changed in an instant. Yeah. Folks, take your water break. I will. Because it was on Monday, July 27 1981, that Reeve Walsh and her six-year-old son, Adam, left their home in Hollywood, Florida for what was supposed to be a quick and uneventful trip to the Sears department store at the Hollywood mall.

This is when Sears was still like at the top of everything. Sears was like where you went. Yeah. Yeah. So the Hollywood mall at this time was a popular shopping center for families. It was filled with stores, food courts, and it was just a relaxing atmosphere. The day that Reeve, that day they went because Reeve needed to buy a lamp and she decided to bring Adam along. The plan was simple, go to Sears, grab what they needed, head home. Straightforward.

Wouldn't think about it twice. Like many kids, Adam was full of energy and curiosity. Like many kids, Adam was full of energy and curiosity. So, while the trip to Sears wasn't really exciting for a little kid, for a six-year-old, he found something that did catch his attention. And I think I was one of those kids as well, and I'm pretty sure you might have been as well. Okay, yeah. Nice, of course. A video game display near the toy section, where a group of older boys had gathered.

So, as they enter the store, Adam spotted the group of older boys playing a demo game at a kiosk near the toy department. And it was very common during these times for department stores to have video game displays, where kids could just take turns playing their demos. Adam, like many kids in the 1980s, he was fascinated by video games. This was the era of Pac-Man, Space Invaders, and early home consoles like Atari. So he was completely absorbed by watching the game, and he decided to stay for a moment. Reeve decided to let him stay with the older kids while she walked over the aisles to check on the lamps that she wanted to buy.

Reeve, Adam's mom, was only gone for about seven to ten minutes. And when she returned... Well, okay, first of all, that's too long for me, right? I would not leave my kid alone for seven to ten minutes. You know, fair. However, I guess this was the 80s when people generally were like, oh, it's safe to leave my kid with strangers because kids go out and play all the time. And I know where he's gonna be playing video games, watching kids play video games.

Yeah. kids go out and play. And I know where he's gonna be playing video games, watching kids play video games. She wasn't doing like a grocery list shopping, she was there for a lamp, she was in, she was out. Which I can see why she would leave her kit there, she's like I'm only here for one item, I know what I'm getting, I'll be back in a few. After those seven to ten minutes, when she returned, Adam was gone. Just like that quick. Yep. And at first, she wasn't immediately alarmed. She assumed that Adam had just simply wandered off. Valid. Perhaps he felt like the other kids, you know, they got distracted by a toy or something else.

So she began searching the aisles nearby, which any parent would do, you know, calling Adam's name. She asked the store employees and other shoppers if they had seen a little boy matching his description. As the minutes passed, there was no sign for Adam, and that's when her worry turned into full-blown panic. She rushed to a store employee and she reported that her son was missing. Sears made an announcement over the store intercom, calling for Adam to come to the front store. And when there was no response, Reeve contacted mall security. Mall security?

I'd contact the police. So we'll get into that. Yeah. But at this point, of course, Reve knew that something was terribly wrong. And also mall security wasn't trained. They were not. Of course not. They were not trained on how to handle abductions. And at the time, it wasn't common for stores to go into full lockdown when a child went missing.

Yeah. Yeah. Why would they? Like it's never happened before. No, exactly. Why would they? Like it's never happened before. No, exactly, exactly. There was also no security cameras in the store or at the mall to check the footage at the time. The initial belief was that Adam simply wandered off, not that he had been taken. Reeve called her husband John, who rushed through the mall, and they both started searching for Adam. Unfortunately, they would be searching for ours. They searched the mall, the parking lot, nearby stores, but he was nowhere to be found. I can't imagine. Yeah, no. I mean- Stepping away for a second, your kid going missing and you just not searching everywhere,

just not being able to find him. It's always how it goes on like those true crime documentaries and like TV shows. The parent steps away for a few minutes and like that's all it takes. Seriously. And we're all thinking like, oh, like it's all all TV, like, it won't happen to me or my child until it does. Yeah. Anyway, it would be hours before they would contact the Hollywood Police Department.

But of course, at that point, it was already too late because Adam was gone. What could they do? Yeah. No. It was later believed that Adam had been abducted within minutes of Reeve leaving him at the VitoGaming area. There were a couple of witnesses that reported that a Seer security guard had asked the group of boys, including Adam, to leave the store because they were being too noisy. So the other boys left, but Adam, likely confused or nervous, didn't know where to go. And unfortunately, the theory is that that left him vulnerable, standing alone near the store's exit.

So without the... That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Without the other older boys or his mother around, he was just completely vulnerable in a public space. And witnesses later reported seeing a man near the store around the time that Adam was separated from the group. Yet one of the biggest questions in this case is why no one ever saw or stopped the man from taking Adam. Well, once again. Yeah, because if they saw him, then why did they stop him?

Once again, this was 1981. Child abductions were not widely publicized, and the idea of stranger danger wasn't common at the time. So it wasn't unusual for adults to interact with children in public spaces without suspicion. And also since Adam had been asked to leave the store, any witnesses that might have assumed he was simply, might have just assumed that he was leaving with a parent or guardian. I, okay, that's's those are valid theories. So it's a little it's a combination of everything, unfortunately. Yeah. Yeah. There were no security cameras, like I mentioned at Sears or the Hollywood Mall, which means

there was no one no footage to see what happened. John and Reeve felt helpless. What was very interesting is that at this time, stolen cars, even stolen horses could be reported to the FBI's national crime database, but not stolen children. But not kids. No. Your car, your horse, We have a national database for that Everything guns money Yeah Children yeah, which is crazy to think about that. There was a time where that wasn't a thing Anyway law enforcement agencies had no way to share this information about kids between each other

So Adam could be anywhere. And his parents were on their own to find him. I have a quote from his dad that said, he's our only child, beautiful little boy, we just want him back. And then Reeve said, more than anything, we have hope. We'll never give up hope and we'll never stop searching. Now... Heartbreaking. They didn't stop searching. They never gave up hope until August 10, 1981,

1981, two weeks after Adam's abduction. So in a canal off Florida Turnpike near Vera Beach, Florida, this was about 120 miles north of where Adam was last seen. That morning, a fisherman was scanning the water for fish when he noticed something floating in the canal. No, dude. Mm-hmm. Oh, he got me as well. As he moved closer, he realized it wasn't debris or an animal carcass. It was a small human head.

Um, the fishermen immediately contacted local enforcement, sending a chill, chilling call to the Indian River County Sheriff's Office. The Indian River County Sheriff's Office responded quickly. They secured the area and they retrieved the severed head from the water. The remains were in a state of decomposition, consistent with having been in the water for several days to two weeks. And investigators noted that the way the remains were found aligned with the theories that Adam was killed soon after his abduction, with his body being discarded to prevent identification. Now at this moment, law enforcement suspected the local medical examiner's office, and that's where they performed an autopsy. The remains were confirmed to belong to a young male child, approximately six years old.

Unfortunately, due to water exposure and decomposition, it had affected the facial features and it made it difficult to confirm the identity. So the cause of death was ruled as decapitation. Wow. Yeah. I mean, that'll do it. Yeah. I mean, that'll do it. Yeah. So this unfortunately just indicated that Adam was likely murdered before his head was discarded into the canal. The decomposition made it impossible to determine if Adam had suffered other injuries before his murder.

injuries before his murder. The medical examiner could not confirm whether he had been assaulted, only that his death was violent and intentional. Now, since facial identification, because this was just a skull at the time I had, since facial identification was not possible, investigators turned to dental records, which is standard forensic practice for identifying bodies where visual recognition is not possible. So Josh and Reeve Walsh provided Adams recent dental records to authorities. Forensic dentists compared the teeth to the remains of the records. And the match was definitive. It was a positive match. Yep. The remains belong to Adam Walsh.

With this confirmation, the case was no longer a missing person investigation. It turned into a homicide case. So despite extensive searches in and around the canal, Adam's body was never recovered. Authorities searched the surrounding water, the land for days, hoping to find the rest of his remains. No additional body parts, clothing, personal belongings were ever found. So the investigators believed that Adam's killer disposed of his body elsewhere, possibly further down the canal or like in an isolated location. And unfortunately the lack of further evidence made it even harder for police to build a strong case against any suspect in the following years.

Yeah, because they didn't have much to go off of, right? No. They had a head. Unfortunately that was all they had. You can't, no fingerprints because this is in the, this head was found in a river in a canal. Yeah Yeah, there's no Hands attached no Over the years there has been a number of theories about who might have killed the boy One of the most prevalent and Interesting theories One of the most prevalent and interesting theories includes Milwaukee serial killer, Jeffrey Dahmer. What? I didn't know that.

Who was reportedly living in South Florida at the time of the abduction. Oh. Okay. So that's one of the theories out there. However, witnesses from the Hollywood Mall told authorities after Dahmer's 1991 arrest that they've seen a man matching the description at the mall that day of Adam's disappearance. No way. However, Dahmer, well, let's talk about well Dahmer also reportedly had access to a blue van, which was similar to the one seen in the parking lot that day in 1981. However, Dahmer confessed to details of killings of 17 men and teenager boys,

but he denied any involvement in Adam's murder. So he probably would have confessed to it, confessed to that. Yeah. So because of this, because of him confessing to 17 men and some teenager boys, he's like, I'm not responsible for Adam. The authorities eventually ruled him out. Now, John Walsh, his father, later recalled the moment that he received the call, describing it as the most soul crushing moment in his life. Yeah. His mother, Reeve Walsh, just collapsing grief,

just struggling to accept the fact that her son was gone. And the discovery just shattered any hope that Adam would return home alive. Yeah. And it's so tough, right? Because this was just another disappearance and then murder of a child that everybody was helpless about. There was nothing they could do. There was no way to track info. It was so hard to keep records to have structured investigations and research on these cases because they didn't have much to go on. And the fact that the two of them, you know, Eton in 1979 and then Adam in 1981,

was just two cases that were so similar, so close together that something needed to be done, right? Yep. And that this was when the Walshes made a vow to dedicate their lives to preventing this from happening to other families. Awesome. So after the confirmation of Adam's Walsh murder, John and Reeve Walsh face a choice.

Either allow their grief to consume them or to channel it into action to ensure that what happened to Adam would never happen to another child. Never. And they chose to fight. They transformed their personal tragedy into a national movement for child safety. After Adam went missing, the Walshers experienced first-hand the failures of law enforcement. First of all, slow response times. At first, police treated Adams' disappearance as a lost child case, not an abduction. Now, jurisdiction issues also played a big issue

because since there was no national database for missing children, police couldn't effectively communicate with agencies outside their city or state. There was also the lack of resources. There was no standardized training for officers handling missing children cases. And there was no alert system. There was no equivalent to today's Amber Alert, which meant that the public wasn't immediately notified of Adam's disappearance. John and Reeve refused to accept this, that this is just how things worked. They demanded answers

and they want to change. So the Walsh's lobbied Congress to pass the Missing Children's Act, which was signed in 1982. Now, like you talked about before, and we'll get into it, this one allowed missing children's information to be entered into the FBI's National Crime Information Center for the first time. So no longer just cars and horses, children now as well. So no longer just cars and horses, children now as well. Yep. Which should have been one of the first ones, but nonetheless it's now there. Yeah.

Because before this children were considered to be part of the National Crime Database. It just made it almost impossible for those recoveries of information. Mm-hmm. Now, realizing that more had to be done, the Walshes played a key role in founding the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, NCMEC. Yes, they did. Yep. So, NCMEC changed everything because they created the first national database for missing children. They launched the 24 hours a day, 7 days a week missing children hotline, which is 1-800-THE-LOST.

They also provided training for law enforcement on handling child abductions and they developed age progression technology to help find long-missing kids. Yeah, no, there was a lot that this got incorporated or enforced. Yeah. And with the Itan's case as well, it's so cool seeing the age progression pictures of what he looked like when he was six, and then they aged him to what he'd looked like when he was 17, and it just seems so realistic. And we'll post some of these pictures. Yeah, we'll definitely post them up there. Now, John and Reeve Walsh worked directly with NCMEC to ensure that families had all the resources and support they lacked when Adam went missing.

Also there was the CodeAdam program. So one of the most immediate changes inspired by Adam's case was the CodeAdam alert system, which was introduced in 1994. So how it works is that if a child goes missing in a store, employees lock down all exits and conduct a store-wide search immediately. Other than that, yeah. It's good. Major retailers like Walmart,

Target, and other department stores implemented Code Atom, which drastically reduce in-store child abductions. The program is now used nationwide in shopping malls, amusement parks, federal buildings. So this was one of the changes that the Walsh's had that wanted because this is what they unfortunately were lacking at the time. Yeah. And if something like this was in effect, you know, before these two kids, Eitan and Adam, went missing, it could have been so much different for how it was handled, investigated, and you know, maybe it's tough to say, but things potentially could have ended up differently. Who knows? Yeah, of course. And of course, this is what the Walsh's wanted. They just wanted to avoid that grief for any other family. John Walsh also became American's most recognizable crime fighter.

He was hosting America's Most Wanted from 1988 to 2012. And also in 2021, he was hosting it that year. So in 1988, John Walsh became the host for American Most Wanted, which was a true crime TV show that helped law enforcements capture fugitives. That's cool. It really is. I was like, this man went all out, which good for him. I'm glad that, you know, unfortunately, this had to be done for someone. It really is. I was like this man went all out, which good for him I'm glad that you know Unfortunately, this had to be done for someone this happened for someone to get involved

But the show profiled criminals missing children unsolved crimes. It just urged the public to call and all that like tips America's most wanted led to the capture of over 1,000 fugitives America's Most Wanted led to the capture of over 1,000 fugitives. That's awesome. And that included sex offenders, child abductors, and serial killers. So the show saved countless children by bringing attention to active, missing person cases. Like I said earlier in the segment, John Walsh used his grief as fuel. He dedicated his life to helping others to get justice, where his own family unfortunately never did.

Now, in 2006, the Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act happened. Awesome. So this landmark law strengthened sex offender registration laws and made tracking sex offenders nationwide mandatory. It also created the National Sex Offender Registry, allowing parents to check for offenders in their area. And the law also increased penalties for child exploitation and human trafficking. Once again, Adam's case changed the legal landscape. His parents just refused for Adam's death to be in vain.

Yeah. You mentioned, you mentioned it changed things everywhere. It changed things internationally even. Okay. I also would like to point out how in 1998, the International Center for Missing and Exploited Children was created, which is the sister company to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Just as its mission was here in the States, the International Center is a network with 29 different countries and it has supplied training to law enforcement and other persons all around the world. So yeah, they do a lot of branch of it. Nice. Yeah, they do a lot of working with like, authorities and like

local law enforcement, which I think is great, you know, the more resources, the better. Now just to wrap up this little section of the National Center, because of John and Reeve Walsh, missing children cases are now treated as emergencies. They are national databases and resources for missing kids. Thousands of criminals have been caught through public awareness, and millions of parents are better informed about child safety. Now, I could very well say that this is where it all ends. It doesn't. Because the cold case of Adam Walsh was solved.

Awesome. Tell us about that. Unfortunately, it was a crime that took decades, but it was solved. So between 1981 and 1983, the case grew colder, and it grew colder and colder. Yeah. Now, it's interesting on the way that this went down because in 1982, the Hollywood Police Department was no closer to solving Adam's Walsh murder. There was no witness that had seen him been taken, no security cameras, no physical evidence. The case went cold until October 1983. So at this point, they didn't catch anyone because they already had him behind bars.

Oh. Yeah. He was already in prison? In 1983, a convicted serial killer named Otis To tool changed everything. So Otis was already in prison for unrelated crimes when unexpectedly, unexpectedly, he confessed to the kidnapping and murder of Adam Walsh. Okay, dude. Well, thanks, I guess, for confessing. Yeah, so as soon as he just did the confession, investigators immediately took notice.

They questioned him and he claimed, what he told police is that he lured Adam into his car outside of Sears, offering him a ride. As he drove north along the Flora Turnpike, Adam became scared and he started to cry. This is when Tool panicked and then killed him before disposing of the body. He decapitated Adam and threw his head into the canal near the Vera Beach, exactly where it was found. Now Tool's story matched key details from the crime, and the police were eager to believe that they had finally found their killer. But almost as squeakily as he confessed, Tool recanted.

Because his story changed every time he told it. He contradicted himself, sometimes claiming that he did it alone, other times that he had an accomplice. Also, he provided no hard evidence, and without Adam's body, the police couldn't prove the rest of his claims. The most frustrating part of this confession of this section of the case is that the police had actually found a major piece of physical evidence, but they lost it. How did they lose this evidence? So, during the investigation, detectives learned that Tool had been driving a blue 1971 Cadillac around the time of Adam's abduction.

This car was seized by the police and tested for evidence. Carpet samples were taken from the vehicle and some officers believe that they found blood stains. They also found a machete after his arrest. But before any DNA testing could be done, the car was lost or destroyed by law enforcement. No fucking way. And in my head, I'm like, how do you lose a car? This isn't like a airplane. They're like, oh, this one can go to the, to the, like the crushing lot.

Yeah, that's fine. Gets crushed. Couple days later, they're like, hey, where's the car? Oh, boss. Yeah, you said that one was good to go, right? It could get crushed. No! It's like, no, I was talking about the one next to it or something.

I don't know. Yeah. Once again, how do you lose an entire vehicle? Yeah. So without the car, they had no DNA proof that Adam had ever been inside Tool's vehicle. And so despite his confession, there was no way to charge this man.

Nothing to go off of. No. Over the years, Toll confessed and he recanted multiple times. In 1984, he confessed again, claiming that he decapitated Adam in a panic after realizing he had kidnapped the wrong kid. Oh my god. he had kidnapped the wrong kid. And... Oh my god. Yeah.

In 1991, he wrote a letter to the Walsh family, again admitting to the crime. Serial killers, they just want the attention, right? Oh yeah, because then in 1996, on his deathbed, he allegedly made one final confession. And what was that? Well, it was the same thing, that he was the culprit. Yeah, every time the details were inconsistent, and without hard evidence, they couldn't close the case. So John Reeve, John and Reeve Walsh never stopped pushing for justice. But with

Tool, when he passed away, there was no other suspects. Adam's case remained open, but unsolved until 2008. In 2008, Advances and Forensic had solved countless cold cases, but Adams still remained open. That year, the Hollywood Police Department conducted a final review of the case, and after going over decades of evidence, confessions, and investigative missteps, they reached a decision. Otis Toole was Adam Walsh's murder. On December 16, 2008, the Hollywood Department officially closed the case, declaring, quote, we are convinced that Otis Toole abducted and murdered Adam Walsh.

This case is now closed, end quote. Listeners. Sorry, go ahead. No, go ahead. I was going to say, listeners, you know this wouldn't be a Chambers of the Occult case if we didn't ask you what you think. Do you think Tool actually did these murders? Do you think he was just lying for attention? Do you think maybe the cops, they just said that he did

it because they wanted to be done with this case because they didn't know who it really was? Who knows? What do you guys think? Let us know. Yeah. Let us know. Send us an email. Send us a text. Comment on our Instagram or anything. Let us know you're out there listening. Like if we're talking to aliens, let us know you're out there. Yeah. We would love to hear from you. Now I believe it's my fault, but I think I'm having trouble with the internet connection. Just a little bit. You see you.

And I think we're good now. Cool. Oh, cool. You mentioned aliens and you kind of sound like an alien right now. So Oh, no. I think you alien right now. So. Oh no.

I think you're good now. All right. Now you're you're fine now I believe. Anyway. Looks like we might be having a little technical difficulties here. Who knows, maybe this stays in the episode, maybe it gets edited out and we continue. Either way, yeah, what do you guys think? What do you guys think about either of these cases, their outcomes and the path that it took to get there? And also, I guess just, what are your thoughts on how this system was before something like the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children

happened before the Missing Children Acts was passed in 1984? We'd love to hear. And Jay's back. Thank you for filling in the dead space. Of course. Yeah. I was updating our listeners on well just asking them what they think and you know what they think about how these cases were handled before the NCMEC was created, things that could have been done differently. Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of things. Oh, a lot, yeah. I'm glad they have been.

Yeah. Now, just to kind of wrap it up. Yeah. The question is, why was it closed without a trial? And pretty simple, because Tool was already dead in 1996. Yeah, there was no closed without a trial? And pretty simple, because Tool was already dead in 1996. Yeah, there was no need for a trial because he... Yeah. So he could never be prosecuted.

And his confessions... But it didn't matter. It didn't. Even though his confessions, despite being inconsistent, they contained details only the killer would know. And there was also no other viable suspects that had ever been found during this time. John and Reeve Walsh accepted the decision,

knowing that even if justice was never served in court, they at least had an answer. Yeah. So for 27 years, Adam's case had haunted law enforcements and the nation until 2008. It was no longer a cold case, but it would always be an open wound. And with that, that is the case of the abduction of Adam Walsh. Awesome. Thank you for sharing. I think, and I think for closing on my part, and before

we officially end this episode, I'd like to share a quote. This was taken, this quote is from John F. Clark, actually the CEO and president of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. This was in an interview he gave in 2017 after the Itan Pat's case was officially closed. He said, quote, the abduction awakened the nation to child abduction and helped change the way law enforcement investigates these crimes. NCMEC is here today, and America's children are safer because of Itaen and other children whose abductions and killings launched a national movement. And I think that's what this episode's about. Yep, as unfortunate as that is, it led to the National Center for Men's and Exploited Children.

It provided resources to people that need them, and it can give people hope. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that concludes this special episode of Chambers of the Occult. For Podcast THON 2025, the stories of Eaton Pats and Adam Walsh just remind us of how crucial it is to support organizations like the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Listeners, if you want to learn more, if you need to report a missing child or you want to donate,

visit missingkids.org. Every effort helps. Bring a child home. But don't stop there. Podcasthon, thank you for this first of all, but Podcasthon is also showing an incredible lineup of podcasts this year, each shining a light on a cause that truly does matter. So head over to www.podcasthon.org to discover more. Thank you for listening. And as always, stay safe, stay aware and stay curious. And with that further, goodbye. Smurf. Ah, a soft off. Yeah. Also, um. Bye, I'm Kai. Oh, shoot, I didn't do that either. Hi and goodbye, I'm Kai.

Oh shoot, I didn't do that either. Hi, and goodbye, I'm Jay. I was Jay, yeah. Yeah, well you still are. Yeah. But, like, anyway. Okay, see you guys, thanks for being here. Peace out.

Thanks for listening to Chambers of the Occult. For photos, sources, and anything else mentioned during the episode, check out our website at chambersoftheoccult.com. You'll find everything you need there if you do find yourself wanting more. You can also follow us on all of our socials at Chambers of the Occult and on Twitter at COTO Podcast. If you have any questions, comments, recommendations, personal anecdotes, or concerns, let us know. Fill out our contact form on our website, email us at chambersoftheoccult.gmail.com, or leave us a message on our socials. We would

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