Chambers of the Occult - EP# 38 Vanished at Sea and Shadows of the Ward: The Disappearance of Amy Lynn Bradley and The Camarillo State Hospital Encounters

Episode Date: January 19, 2026

Send us a textIn this episode of Chambers of the Occult, J is joined by guest Sam to explore the haunting disappearance of Amy Lynn Bradley, a 23-year-old woman who vanished from a cruise ship in 1998 without her shoes, passport, or ID just as the ship docked in Curaçao.The conversation breaks down the final known timeline, the ship’s delayed response, and the many theories surrounding Amy’s disappearance, including accident, foul play, human trafficking, and the possibility of an inside job. J and Sam also examine how maritime law, eyewitness sightings, and cruise industry accountability complicate missing-person cases at sea and how families are often retraumatized by scammers offering false hope.The episode then shifts into the paranormal as Sam shares personal experiences tied to her time attending college on a campus that once served as the Camarillo State Mental Hospital. Built over the grounds of the former psychiatric institution, the school still carries traces of its past, leading to unsettling encounters, shadowy figures, and moments that blur the line between memory, place, and presence.Together, these stories reflect two kinds of disappearance, one unresolved and physical, the other lingering and spectral. This episode asks difficult questions about safety, accountability, grief, and how the past, whether through unsolved cases or abandoned institutions, continues to shape the present.

Chambers of the Occult may contain content that might not be suitable for all listeners. Listener discretion is advised. Welcome back to Chambers of the Occult. And as you just heard, I'm here with a very special guest, or if you're seeing this on YouTube. I am Jay, and this is... I am Sam. Hi, Sam. Hi.

Great energy from the start. people know you love talking and we put a microphone in front of you. I love to chat. That's why I'm a therapist. And that's why I'm a tour guide. So, yeah, the end of the year is coming up and I was like, hey, Sam, hop on. Yes. I'm so excited.

Thank you, first of all, so much. I'm so excited. Yes, I love to chat, but specifically I love to chat all things. spooky and I if you just need to tell me to shut up just say hey too much oh this is the magic of having a microphone in front of you um you have freedom to interrupt me whenever you want but this goes to a place yes I'm super excited to be here I have stories to share and I just am super excited to hear what you have to share with me so I'm just this is going to be a blast I have a true crime story for you.

Yeah. That's the goal. So yeah, should we just get into it? Sure. Yeah. I've been waiting with baited breath all day. With what? Bated breath.

It's an old lady saying. Oh, you're not an old lady. Yeah, you're that displaced before? I don't think I have. I don't know what it means. I just hear people say it when they're anxious, so I just thought this was the appropriate time. Totally fine. So today I have a story.

It's a little, I don't know if I would call it unsettling, but you can be the judge for that. I love judging. Good. And this is not taking place like in a city. or like in a forest or like in a highway, it's taking place out in the middle of the ocean. The spookiest place, in my opinion. Okay.

Oh, is it? I'm not scared of the ocean because I like to cruise and I think the ocean, if I was born an animal, I would definitely be some kind of like marine life. But my biggest fear in life, is being stranded by myself in the middle of the ocean. I have no idea how I would end up in that situation, but like the ocean, I mean, no one can hear you.

So I'm sure this is going to be a great example of that. And I'm sure I have a cruise six weeks, so now I'm going to be all freaked out. Well, Sam, I think we should have discussed this before because this does take place in a cruise ship. Of course it does. Of course it does. The universe is always on my side.

Well, I've known you've gone on cruises and you've, like, posted them on your story. And I was like, what I want to cover with salmon? I was like, cruise. So, yeah. This was intentional. Well, at least I'm cruising on a coast. I'm not going between continents. So.

Okay, cool. Yeah. So this also is not like anything recent within like the next last 20 years, 25 year. This happened in 1998. Okay, I was four. Okay. I was three, I think. But yeah.

So cruises worked quite differently back then as well. Yeah, yeah. So I also specifically pick this because if I say something that it's like, that's not how it works anymore, feel free to interrupt me and tell me. Okay. Or like, that would never fly to. day. I'll take notes and then I'll circle back with you at the end. You're like, remember when you said this?

Yeah. That's not how we do things anymore. No, this is a question for you, Sam. Okay. So when people talk about cruise ships, what do you think they assume about safety, like rules and accountability? Well, I can tell you what I'm. I assume because here's the thing.

I know I come from a very privileged perspective of cruising because I've really only been on a Disney cruise and those are insanely safe. I think every time there's a man overboard, more than half the time Disney's able to find them and rest of them. But other cruise lines, which are not quite up to date and things like that, might not be able to. I don't work on a cruise line. I don't speak for a cruise line, but this is. Yeah, yeah. Your experience, that's totally fine.

Yeah, yeah. But with Disney, and because I worked for Disney, too, I know that they take safety to a very, very, very, very, very, like, serious effort. I have been on Carnival. It wasn't great. The safety drill is not mandatory. So I was like,

oh, all right, I'm still going. So I think it depends on if you've never been on a cruise. They're pretty scary. I can understand. Because my first couple, I still get nervous on the first day. I still have visions like, you know, toppling over. Oh. Yeah.

Stop watching the Titanic. I know. I don't do that for the Poseidon. But I think in general, some people are like, oh, heck yeah. That's the way I'm going to go. I'm going to die happy. That's my mom. But a lot of my friends are like, no, thank you.

We don't want to cruise because it's true. Like I said earlier, if you get stranded, like, I don't know what the protocol is. No one can hear you scream. No one can hear you. No one's going to find you. You're just a little dot in the middle of the ocean. I'm really selling cruises here, aren't I? Everyone should go on.

If anything, I feel like you're selling Disney cruise. as ever any other cruise. That's so true. I don't work for them anymore. And so I'm not, this is not a paid partnership by any means. Oh my God. I'm going on my like fifth one in February.

So you can tell that even though I'm a little bit nervous, I'm it over the whole experience just overrides nerves. Totally fair. Yeah. Yeah. And I think like cruises are what, what people call like a close system. Yeah.

Because you, you board at the poor, you disembark at a port and like in between you're like in a massive structure with like staff, passengers, security, schedule activities and like literal physical boundaries in this case the ocean. Right, right. And then also too, when you talk about safety, now my mind is going into like work mode. But then one of the reasons my dad is kind of like iffy about cruising, he'll still go. But like they make you wash your hands constantly. I mean constantly like my in is like raw because. because it's so easy to spread germs and things like that.

So I've never cruised for more than like four days. I don't think my immune system could handle anything longer than that. So it's really, really common for people to get sick on cruises. Like obviously seasick, but like colds and things like that. So if you're immune to that, I would actually stay away from it. Wow, that's actually something I did not know. Yeah, yeah. And most cruises, if not all, have,

a doctor on board and things like that, but they're kind of limited in what they can do for you. So I'm always, like, pumping that vitamin C like a week before I'm staying hydrated. I'm taking my zinc every night because, yeah, you're pretty, like, close to everybody. And, yeah, so that's the other thing that comes to mind. But I've never gotten sick. I've never, like, gotten a cold or anything like that. As long as you're, like, on top of it, it's just do a little bit more than you normally do. It's fine.

Nice. Well, cruises have changed a lot, and, you know, people have assumptions like someone can't just vanish on a cruise, or if they're missing, there's a procedure. Or if something happens, authorities step in fast. But in the late 1990s, this was a major gap. Okay. Because not every corridor had cameras. not every deck had constant oversight. And not every secure response was built prioritizing missing passengers over keeping the vacation vibe intact.

So also jurisdiction can be messy because the ship might be owned by a company in one place, registered in another country, and then staffed by crew all over the world. So yeah, so if something happens, you're not just asking, where is this person? You're asking who is responsible for this now? Maritime law. Yeah, that's a really good point. Mm-hmm. So let's get into it. Okay.

So this is the disappearance of Amy Lynn Bradley. I just got the chills. I just watched this like two or three weeks ago. This is a day. Uh-huh. I have so many theories. Okay, perfect. Because I have a couple, but you can definitely jump in because now you know what this is.

And clearly it's fresh in your mind. Mm-hmm. I literally got the goosies. Okay, go for it. I also loved how you're like, I'm going on a cruise soon. I'm going to watch this and not cruises. Like I said, it's not 1990s anymore. But yeah, as you can imagine, this revolves around Amy Lynn Bradley.

At the time in 1998, she was 23 years old, just shy of turning 24. She was very athletic. She had been a strong swimmer, and she studied sports science and had plans for more school and more of a future. She wasn't traveling alone. This wasn't an isolated thing. She was on the cruise with her parents, Ron and Eva, and her younger brother, Brad. And if at some point I say something that's like different, or like similar to what you heard and you're like,

but I heard it this way. Feel free to let me know. Oh, yeah. I'm just happy to hear another perspective. Okay, cool. And I'm mentioning that she was here with people because sometimes when someone disappears, people think that they're like,

they're drifting or they're running away or trying to stir over. But this isn't that kind of story. There was no signs indicating this. No. If anything, she had purchased and postcards for some friends, letting people know, like, hey, I'm having a good time.

But Amy was close with her family, and she was excited to be there. And according to her family, she was not someone who would just vanish without telling them. The reason that they were going on a cruise is because the dad, if I'm correct, he was a life insurance salesman. And at his company, there was a raffle, and he ended up winning two tickets for the cruise. so it's going to be him and his wife, and they purchase additional tickets for their daughter and their son. So basically 50% off. Right. And that's pretty good. Yeah. And Amy wasn't super excited about it, but she came around to the idea of the cruise.

And like I said, she wasn't excited, not because she couldn't swim, but because it was the idea of being surrounded by open water that made her nervous. which will be important later because that's one of the biggest theories of maybe she jumped overboard. So keep that in your back pocket. Now, the cruise was Rhapsody of the Seas, a Royal Caribbean ship. Okay. The trip takes place in March of 1998, and it was sailing through the Caribbean with a schedule to stop in Kurokau. Now, everything changed the morning that the ship reaches the port.

Because the night before the ship docks in Kurokau, the family is having dinner. They're taking their pictures, those formal cruise photos, and later they're out and join the nightlife on board. Amy and her brother were up late. There was music. They were dancing. It's the kind of like cruise energy where it feels like. you're in vacation because there's like no real world anchor.

And I think that's what appeals to a lot of people on cruises. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's a really good, like, you're literally separated from land. So there's an actual barrier between real life and vacation life. Mm-hmm. And it was around 1 a.m. that the parents got tired, so then went back to their cabin. And I know my parents would never be up until that late.

No. Now, Amy and Brad were clearly willing to stay out longer. So they were socializing with some members of the ship band. And in some accounts, one particular band member gets mentioned more than anyone else, the bass player. His name was Alistair Douglas. Okay. Often referred to online with a nickname, but we'll keep it simple. will just say Alistair. Okay. And around 340, Amy and her brother returned to the cabin. She and her brother are sitting at the balcony together, talking and listening to music. And eventually, Brad gets tired. He goes inside to sleep. Amy stays outside of the balcony lying on the lounge chair. And that was the last that the family saw of her.

And this was like at early early morning, like one or two? Like 3.40 in the morning. Okay, so a little bit. Oh, yeah, after the parents went to bed. Okay. Yeah, the parents went to bed at 1 o'clock. I was going to call them the kids. Yeah, I mean, the daughter and son.

Yeah. We're out until like 3.40 in the morning. Okay, okay. Now, some people believe that she fell asleep on the balcony. and I don't think that would be unusual for a cruise. Yeah, I mean, it can rock you to sleep. Mm-hmm. And that's part of what makes this eerie

because it's not like she stormed off after a fight. It was a good night. They were partying that her brother and her were talking out in the balcony and then, like, he went to sleep. She stayed there. Mm-hmm. Now, a few hours later, her dad wakes up, and he notices that she's gone from the balcony.

The balcony door is open and she's gone. Now, what was left behind is one of the loudest parts of the case because her shoes were still in the cabin. Her cigarettes and her lighter were the only things that were missing. Her ID and her passport were still in the room. Now, if you've ever traveled, you know like the rule that even if you forget everything else, you don't forget like your shoes or your IDs when you're planning to leave. Right, right. So this is where we're into the theory that this doesn't look planned.

Mm-hmm. Her father initially did what a lot of people did, like the first hour of panic. He tries to convince himself that it's just something simple, that there should be an explanation. Maybe he wondered to like a common area. Maybe he fell asleep somewhere. Maybe she fell asleep somewhere. Maybe there was a misunderstanding. So he searches the ship, the common areas, places that they've been through the night,

and there's no sign of Amy. That's when the family decides to alert the ship staff. And this is when it doesn't just become about the disappearance, but about the response. Because the next destination mattered. Even if today, like someone was missing and their shoes and IDs were still in the room, that would kind of ring an alarm that this isn't normal. Right. And because someone oversleps somewhere, it's one thing.

But if someone disappeared without their essentials, it's a completely different thing. Right. So the family reports that Amy is missing in the early morning. And according to multiple retellings, the ship staff initially responds in a way that feels like they're minimizing the severity of her missing. There's not an origin ship wide lockdown. There's not a full emergency protocol that treats the ship like a crime scene. There's reports that the ship did not immediately broadcast broadcast a clear misinperson alert, distribute her photo to passengers, or stop disembarkment at the port.

So instead, the ship docked in Curacao and the people began to get off. So this is the moment where that close system stops being. a close system. Because once the ship docks, thousands of people step off into the port. Anyone can blend into the crowd. Passengers, crews, a stranger. And if Amy did leave the ship by choice or by force, that docking window could have been that exit.

Oh, true. And if she didn't leave the ship, In that same window, that's where evidence disappears. Doors open, movement increases, noise rises, people leave. So the idea that the response lag during the most crucial window is what a lot of people have pointed out. Crew staff probably have dealt with all kinds of situations, people in the wrong cabin, people passed out, people missing because they're hung over. somewhere, but the question here becomes of how long do you treat this as probably nothing before you think it's the worst case scenario.

And in this case, the family believed that this was when that line was crossed and it was too late. Okay. Now, there was a lot of dispute here about how the early searches went because there was nothing found. There was no confirmed evidence that she fell overboard, no confirmed witness for a fall, and there was no body recovered. So that's a huge detail because people can go overboard and never be recovered. Yes, it's almost near impossible to find them. And I think the absence of that confirmation is what kept this case alive for so long because we're stuck with multiple possibilities. Was it an accident that she fell? Was it an

intentional, was it foul play, or did she leave the ship willingly or not willingly? Right. Yeah. And each one has its problems because if she fell overboard, why is there no evidence or why? Why was she so close when she feared the ocean so much, even though she was a good swimmer? If it was voluntarily that she left, why did she leave her essentials? ID, passport, shoes. And if it's foul play on board, there was no trace of it.

So this is why it's turning to the point where this was the illusion of a closed system. Because once the system fails at a moment like this, it doesn't matter how quote-unquote controlled it looked on paper. Right. Now, when she disappeared, there was a, and the parents talked to the staff, there was like a quick announcement of like, hey, Amy Lynn Bradley, please show up to like this desk. But that's, I think, the only thing that they did. And she didn't show up. So after the disappearance, the case becomes a lot of what became what a lot of missing people cases become.

it's a trail of sightings, mistaken identities, or was it something expletive? Explodative. What am I trying to say? Exploitative. Thank you. I think that was the word. Yeah. Because there's plenty of reports through the next couple years that people claim that

they saw a woman who looked just like Amy in the Caribbean in Kurokow. So there was a report from a taxi. driver. There was also a report from a tourist, a later military report, a department store bathroom encounter, and one of the most infamous photos from an escort website years later, where a woman called Jazz resembled Amy Strongly. I just got the goosebumps. Mm-hmm. I didn't know about that part.

Yeah. So when they first reached Curacao, the crew told the family that they had two choices. They could either disembark in Curacao or they could stay on the ship. Okay. So the family decided to disembark, maybe try to search for Amy, ask around. And that's when the FBI got involved. Oh. Yeah.

Because they had no idea once again in whose jurisdiction. this fell. Yes, that's so true. And that's when the FBI told them that they don't believe that the crew did a proper thorough search and that they should try to get back onto the ship. The family should try to get back on the ship. Yes, the family should try to get back on the ship. Okay.

Now, about those sightings, a lot of the eyewitness, eyewitness, felt that this was definitely her that they saw. But unfortunately, eyewitnesses is like the less reliable type of evidence. Yeah. Because the brain is just so, what's the word? I wouldn't call it gullible, but there's a better word for it. Like overwhelmed with information. Yeah, but I think it's very susceptible.

Yeah, yeah. Like your brain kind of sees what it wants to see sometimes. Mm-hmm. So people can't be like 100% sure whether this was right or wrong when they were seeing her. But yeah, did you end up hearing? I don't know what the last thing I said, but I said that when families are desperate, that's when scammers show up. Yes, yes. That's the last thing I heard.

Cool. Because in this case, there was a man named Frank Jones that posted as a capable rescue. He promised an operation that took massive massive amounts of money from the family and it just turned out to be a con. I was just about to say that. Also, I just want to clarify when I said earlier, I heard this, I heard this story like two or three weeks ago. I had very minimal bits and pieces of information. So kind of everything you're telling me is new information. I'm not acting. I'm not acting like I'm not an actress. Yes, but I'm not. A liar. Sorry. But yeah.

No, it's totally fine. A couple of the details that I forgot to mention was that Amy Lynn also had a couple of tattoos on her. Oh, interesting. So when people were having sightings of her, a lot of the people also confirmed that she had those tattoos in certain spots. And that kind of like goes against one of my theories. Okay.

Oh. Okay. I'll share. Sounds good. Sounds good. But yeah, that's when he decided to see a grieving family and looked at them as a way to make a profit. Because he did say at some point that there was some sightings of their daughter in, I keep forgetting where the island that the ship docked was called Corakow. Coral, yeah.

And she was with a blonde man. and like you could see the tattoos on her. Hmm. So you got to the point where... What was that? Where, do you know where the tattoos were on her? I think there was one like in her back shoulder and I think there was one by her like ankle. Okay, so like invisible areas.

That makes sense. Yes. And then eventually the family got a picture of this blonde man at the beach with a female, a woman that had a very similar physique to their daughters. And on there, you could see that tattoo, I think, on her ankle. I don't think you could see the one on her shoulder, but you could see the ankle one. And this was before, like, and... And then they unfortunately find out that that was a stage photo.

Ah, after I just said that was before. Oh, man. they found out that that was a man wearing a wig and it was kind of like a photo shoot thing for the con artist. That is so screwed up. This is just terrible. Exploitative is the perfect word of what he's doing to this poor family. Yeah. And it would be years and years until she would finally be considered, I think, dead.

And that was just because it had been about, I think, 10 plus years ever since she, like, disappeared. and there was just like no new evidence to go on. That's awful. Mm-hmm. Now, let's talk about where you can chime in some of the conspiracy theories out there. Okay. Some of them are more grounded than others.

Mm-hmm. The most simple theory is that it was an accident. People fall, people slip. Balconies become dangerous, especially at night. But there was no confirmed evidence. the family insisted that Amy was cautious around the railings and her leaving her shoes and ID behind but her cigarettes and her like lighter gone

so it doesn't explain how that was a she fell over the balcony. There was also the theory that there was some foul play on board because this includes the idea that something happened after she left the balcony area, either an encounter gone wrong or someone took advantage of her during a vulnerable moment, but there's just a ton of lack of physical evidence, and there's no confirmed timeline

after she was last seen by her family. I will say that on this cruise ship, there was a videographer, and at some point there was, it was just him taking videos of the cruise. I don't know if it was for an advertisement or something, but he did see a woman resembling Amy Lynn back on the dance floor hours on the hours after she was supposedly disappeared from the balcony

Okay He ended up turning that cassette that recording to the crew members But it took the crew members Like a year plus to hand it over to the FBI Do we know why? No

I think it's just one of those situations where they assume that the FBI I was going to ask for it, and then they never asked for it. So they never gave it until like a year later. But at the same time, I feel like in those situations, you're like, better be safe than started like, hey, we have this if you want it. Because my question is like, what does role, does the company play in this and what's their policy? And if safety is of the utmost importance, like, I don't, I don't know.

That's so weird. This was also 1998. So things and people's minds, like, minds, like, everything worked differently. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was a very, very different time. Like, nowadays, for sure, it would have been turned in right away, I think. Yeah.

Yeah. Another theory is that she left when the ship got to the port. But this theory depends heavily on that document. window, that if she left the ship during the early chaos of the disembarkment, but the complications with this theory is that how would that have happened and notice if people were supposed to be on the lookout for her? Why would she leave without her essentials, passport and ID shoes? And if the early port sightings of Amy are reliable. Yeah, that one for me, I think, is either 50-50. Like, they really could have seen her or they really could not have. That one's hard for me

to back up because I leave it, but I also don't. Yeah, other theories were that maybe she fell asleep somewhere else in the cruise and she didn't hear when they called for her to show up to the desk. But it's still like leaving, I don't know, like. The rest of cruise, yeah. I doubt that it's common to see people walking around without their shoes on. I feel like there's a policy for that, I would imagine. It's actually not as uncommon as you'd think, at least in this day and age, because you have the pool, you have so many things.

So that to me actually doesn't really raise any red flags, especially if she, if her brother was out there until like 3.30 in the morning, maybe she was just really tired and she wanted to go have a cigarette in the pool. I mean, it's closed at that. that point, but maybe she went up there and just wanted to put her feet in, you know? And then, so it's not totally uncommon. It is weird because that's a really good way to get athletes foot. But, and also, too, I will say the ID and the passport, I actually do leave that in my room because I don't want any chance of it getting stolen. But again, this, I live in a very different time.

So. No, I feel like it's very common for people to leave the passport and idea in the room unless they're planning to finally disembark or something. Yes, because if you want to get back on the ship, you have to have that. So to me, that lets me know she wasn't planning on leaving the ship. Yeah. If she listed in the room. And then there's also the theory of maybe this was a volunteer disappearance.

Yeah, could have been. You said she was 23. Mm-hmm. had she graduated college? She did, but she had plans to go back to it for a master's. Hmm. So she had future plans. Yeah.

Once again, she was buying postcards for her friends. Right, right. Maybe, yeah. I mean, it could have been. Sometimes we kind of entered to that, like, phase of, I don't know, when I went to grad school, I did have a little bit of a crisis of, like, what if I just, drop everything and move to a different country. So, and then maybe she was having that crisis and she was in the opportune place.

Mm-hmm. But then why would you go barefoot? So. Yeah. Yeah, totally fair. But it's just one of those things that, like, she left her essentials behind. She was close to her family and no confirmed contact ever. Like, there's no, no, no, like, like,

confirm siding stuff in areas that's like oh like she just chose to settle down here or something my biggest theory and i don't want to say it unless you have more theories go ahead i think it's that one the other one i was going to mention the reason that she might have not shown up when they called her name was that one of the theories is that she was asleep somewhere else on the boat or that she was like shack up with someone else could have been I tend to go, what do we call this? Catastrophize.

And I don't want to make it seem like I am trying to make this more interesting to entertain people. But when I first heard this story, I actually heard this story like maybe two or three years ago. My mom is obsessed with this. this story. And her and I both think that this was an inside job with the cruise line. And a crew member might have had some kind of involvement in like the trafficking ring and like lured her out somehow. And that's why she's on the escort page and things like that. So that's that's kind of where my mind goes, which is awful and terrible, and I really hope that that's not the case. But I, with all of this evidence, it just, and the, the, the company's like lack of response and things like that, like, that could be, and that could just be the way that their policy is.

I don't know, but it's a little, like, eyebrow raising. No, definitely, definitely. It's definitely one of those theories of, like, was this an inside job? Was someone involved? because there really was not like this is like a high priority like it definitely like was dumbed down to be like let's not mess with it on the audience

let's keep things as they are. Right and like don't everyone paid for a happy experience so we're going to keep it happy. And of course you know having been on the customer service side of things you don't want to jump to that right away you know because that is using a lot of resources that could be used better. But on the flip,

side of that, I would rather be safe than sorry. So it's just a little tricky. But then when you mentioned the tattoos, that was the thing that kind of went against the trafficking theory, because typically traffickers don't look for anybody with tattoos or any kind of like noticeable marks on their body because that means that they are an individual. You know what I mean? So especially if they're invisible places, that's what kind of like went against the trafficking theory for me. However, you know, it could have, they, I'm not a trafficker, so I don't know, but I, they, they might have just, I know that they look for people who are kind of, I don't know who they look for it, to be honest, but I know that that tattoos is usually, that's why I have

three, because I don't want to be trafficked. Because I am an individual. I am a person. I'm a person with rights. So, you know, like I said, I hope that that's not the case. Like that's, no matter what, it's just an awful, terrible, so sad story of like this family hoping to have a fun vacation. Yeah. But it really does make you wonder. And it makes you realize how easy it is to just disappear. Yeah.

So easy. Now, there was another sight of her. from a man called David Carmichael. He was a Canadian tourist who was visiting Curacao in August of 1998. This was a couple months after she originally disappeared, five months after. And Carmichael said that he was in the beach area with some freshwater rent stations and that he noticed a woman walking with two men kind of like following her from behind. And he said that because he was a Canadian tourist,

and in Kirkcal the primary language is spoken or like Portuguese and Spanish, Amy didn't speak Portuguese or Spanish. But the tourist Carmichael said that when Amy realized that he spoke English, her behavior changed and she started walking faster towards him, almost as if trying to get help from an English-speaking person. Right. but that the two men were getting closer to her and eventually she just didn't end up talking to him. And because if that was the case, then she could put him in danger too.

Yeah. Which isn't going to cover in the long run. And in that situation, he also reported seen tattoos that matched Amy's. She had a, the one on her shoulder, I think it was the Tasmanian devil. Okay. And then. Yeah. And then.

Yeah. And then. specific tattoo. Yeah. And then like a gecko, like, near her, uh, navel and like other, like, tattoos on her. And those aren't like your generic, the mill, like, flowers. Like, those are really specific. Exactly.

The unfortunate thing was that the resemblance to her was never confirmed. And law enforcement did not substate this, like, link. There was like, no arrest, no corroboration, no physical evidence. It was just a sighting. Yeah, yeah. Wow. But that's kind of like all the theories I have for you. Yeah. Well, and like all the sightings of her on the island so long after the cruise. I mean, that just kind of confirms the whole like maybe kidnapping or abduction or something.

But you said they eventually just rolled it off as like she was dead. I mean, there was no body found. So at some point, you just got to declare them dead. Yeah, yeah. Cold case. That's one of those stories that really sticks with you. Like, if I were given the opportunity to learn the outcome of something, this is one of the stories I'd want to know. The other one is the Diet Love Pass.

but like and that's what makes it hard being a young woman traveling too is like how easy it is like I said to just disappear whether it's of your own will or someone else's and if someone else did do this look how easy it was for them to make it look like she wanted to do it yeah you know I mean that's also when you talked about when it comes to like human trafficking You don't want people that have, like, markings on them, like tattoos. I would imagine you also don't want to take someone that is traveling actively with their family. Right. Because then that means they know that someone's going to go looking for them.

Exactly. You would kind of just want to. Go ahead. You want somebody who blends in and, like, you know, wouldn't. Yeah, just somebody who blends in. But this case is now so high profile and international at this point. Like, I wouldn't be surprised if she's just hiding away somewhere. I don't know.

You know, it's just like. I mean, to get the FBI, to get involved in everything. And I always wonder about when things like this happen, especially on international waters. Like, I am always thinking about that when I'm cruising is if something. were to happen. I mean, Disney is registered in the U.S. so they have to follow U.S. law. But, like, if something were to happen, at what point, is there a collaboration? Is there, I don't know. It's just sometimes I have to stop myself from thinking because I get really but, yeah, after my mom and I, after my mom learned about this story, we went on a cruise.

and she was like practically holding my hand the whole time because she was just like it was so fresh in the back of her mind and she's like well and she's also a little bit paranoid so um i give her that i'm not a parent so i don't know what that's like and i'm also 31 so um a little bit older than amy was but um uh yeah she was like constantly because it's it's so true, how easy it is for you to just turn your back for one second and turn around and they're gone. Like, it happened at the airport when we were flying back where I had told her and I thought she heard me that I was going to the bathroom. And so I walked away and I came back out and she was just, she wasn't flipping out or anything. She wasn't causing a scene. But she was like,

oh my God, I didn't hear you say you're going to the bathroom. That was so easy for you to disappear, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, I know, but I text you. So check your phone. Uh-huh. But, yeah. Yeah. It's, thank you for sharing this story. One, so that way people can learn about it. And hopefully we get some kind of resolve.

But two, it's such. They did do, um, you know, like when they take like the original picture and then like they age them on that picture. Yeah. So they've done that with her in case like someone does come across her. Mm-hmm. But she was declared dead in 2010, so like about 12 years after her missing.

And it was like a legal necessity, not because she was dead for sure. Typically, seven or more years in the U.S. law families are allowed to petition the court to have them declared dead for legal administrative rights. Interesting. Okay, I didn't know that. Yeah. Some people do it for practical and financial reasons, like to settle like estate matters, revenue property, things like that. But in this situation, I think it's just because it had been just like 12 years of her missing. And they're like, let's just because we declare her dead does not mean that she's actually dead. Yeah. Right, right. They have to tend to other cases eventually. And if you don't have any leads at a certain point. I get it. It's such a, I do not envy people in law enforcement because, or whoever is in charge of declaring somebody dead if they don't really know, like, at what point

do you do that? And that's just got to be so hard, especially if the family wants to keep looking, you know? Yeah. Well, yeah, that was the case of Amy Lynn Bradley. She had disappeared in March 24th of 1998. She was last confirmed alive in the balcony with her family. There was apparently

about a 30-minute window that she was gone. There was no fall, no eyewitnesses and her living in the ship. Like, that's what's weird to me.

I mean, I would understand the brother not hearing her leave because he was up to like 3.40 in the morning. But the parents

at that point had had a bit more of sleep. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, the doors on cruise ships are heavy. So it's not like you can, like. Yeah, I doubt there were any lighter in 1998.

Yeah, they're probably even heavier, to be honest. But, like, unless she worked really hard to, like, you know, make sure it closed quietly. I mean, here's what the timeline that makes most sense to me is she was sitting, because she was sitting on. the balcony of her parents room of their room right not just like a random balcony okay so if she's sitting out there she has her cigarettes and maybe she's like you know what it would be nicer to go on the top floor and like look at the ocean or something so she goes out there it doesn't take her shoes and then from there maybe she's abducted or because it's the middle of the night and the crew is the one are the people who know where the cameras are and where they're

not. So they have the most information and someone from the crew could have taken her there and then like taken her off the ship from a crew only thing. Like yeah, you know, there's, that's the thing that just makes the most sense to me is, um, somebody took her. Especially with so many signs and curacao afterwards. Well, and I'm pretty sure do you did, was there anything that said at what time the ship docked? Because they usually get there pretty early. Sure, I can look it up. Because from what my knowledge is, because I've cruised the Bahamas before, that makes me sound so latest.

But we usually get there at like four or five o'clock in the morning. Okay. This was at six in the morning. So they docked at six? Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. And then she could have been in the ocean still.

So I guess she could have fallen off the balcony. Maybe she fell asleep and fell off. But I don't know. But then that doesn't explain the missing cigarette and lighters. This is why I can never be in the best. Most likely she did go out to take a break. And then at that point something happened. Yeah.

Because if you're just stepping out to just take a cigarette break, you can come back. There's no need for like your shoes or your ID. Yeah, there's no urgency around. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my gosh. It's just such a heartbreaking story because there's no closure. Yeah. Especially family.

I just feel terrible for the family. I know. When it comes to things like this with the family, like the families are just, there's no closure for them. No, there isn't. And then imagine if she's alive and like how much of her life she's lost and if she is found one day to recover from that. Like, oh my gosh, it just, it just, it makes me spiral. Not that it's about me, but, you know, it's just like. It just makes your brain keep going of like what they miss, like what they could have done.

Like a lot of things, yeah. Yeah, because our brain wants to fill in the gaps. So it's just going to make up whatever it makes the most sense. And this is one of those stories that's just filled with gaps. It's so many gaps. It's just one long gap, to be honest. Yeah. Oh, my gosh.

And I would hate to be the investigator working on this case because there's no way, there's no, there's nowhere to go with it. Yeah. Yeah. But if there is anyone in Keroukow or just anywhere that happens to see her, I'll put pictures on the Instagram and like on the YouTube video. Yeah. Reach out to the FBI. Yeah. Just they have a tip line.

Check their website. And fingers crossed, she's still out there. I hope she is. I hope she's okay. I hope she's safe. And at the end of the day, I do hope that this was at will and she got what she wanted. And I don't know if that. Yeah, maybe that's what she needed.

Maybe she was struggling and she just didn't tell anybody. But, you know. Because it's one of those things where, like, people say that like, oh, like she was never suicidal or like she was very content with her life. And it's like, yeah, but like that's the facade that a lot of people put up. Yeah. Like, it's always the people who do follow through with it are always the ones that you don't think will. And so that's why I never really followed that lead of, you know, she seemed okay. Everything seems okay, you know.

And that's why I was asked. Go ahead. That's why I was asking if she had graduated already. Because if a lot of times we see it in like college age students when they're at, that age of like if they haven't graduated yet and they're maybe not doing so well in school or they have graduated and then they're like now what you know so there's that kind that's why I was kind of thinking that existential crisis route um because a lot can go on mentally there yeah also having like your own thoughts at like three in the morning right right we've all been

there we've all had those thoughts at three in the morning and then at like 10 a.m. you're like, that didn't make any sense. You know, I always think that my, my often 3 a.m. thought is that I'm going to die alone, you know, and then I like, wake up the next thing. I'm like, everything's fine. I don't know what I was worried about. But in that moment, it gets really real, you know, so that's a really good. Oh, I've been there. Like, I need sleep. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, this is the time I should stop scrolling. as close the laptop. Yeah.

But like in my head, I do believe like she had plans to go back, you know, continue her life. She was going to go like back to school. She got postcards for her friends telling them how much it. Like it's not like she was not like making attempts to reach out. Yeah. Yeah. And that makes sense.

That's why it doesn't kind of like fall totally in line is because she she was thinking about the people that care about her and that she cared about. and things like that. And yeah. Where was the family from? The Bradley family was from Virginia. Okay. So not too far from.

They probably cruised out of somewhere close to there. It's terrible. Yeah. I hope the family finds some kind of closure too. Yeah. I mean, at this point, it's been... 30 years. 20

24 27 going on 28 years Wow wow well thank you again for sure yeah you're welcome I'm glad that like this was something like I know some of it and you're like

and now there's a lot more details that I was missing but sorry I cut you off what were you going to say no that's totally fun. I was also thinking of like, I wonder like if the brother has like any like guilt, you know, like survivor's guilt type of thing because he was the last person to see her and talk to her. Yeah. Yeah. Like he maybe like he's like, oh, I should have waited for her. Like we should have like, I should have checked on her or something. But right, right. But then again, I mean, it's totally rational to not because you're like, we're just in a room. You were tired. You were in your room, which is technically supposed to be safe. Yeah. Right.

Right, right. So I mean, I wouldn't, I probably would do the same thing, to be totally honest. Honestly, yeah. Like, it's just one of those things where you just don't have control. Mm-hmm. Like, so. Oh, my gosh. Wow. Sorry to do this to you, Sam, but I hope you have a good cruise.

Well, the thing with that is, at least, even though these stories have awful endings, they do teach me to be. a lot more aware of my surroundings and what could potentially go wrong. So, you know, I just stick to my, stick to my routine. I make myself known. I make friends with the crew. And, you know, stick to Disney. If you took anything from this, folks, so stick to Disney. Although there is a very similar case like this where a girl disappeared on a Disney cruise,

so you're not safe anywhere. Yeah. But I would imagine safer than 1998. Yeah, that's, yes, exactly. That's the one thing I have going for me is, but I do recommend cruises. Says the not human trafficker. I swear I'm not. Oh, my God, that is such an awful.

But yeah, Sam, what do you have for us now? Yes. Okay. So switching gears a little bit. So Jay had asked me to think of like any kind of spiritual experiences I've had or spooky experiences I've had. And I'm always happy to chat about that stuff. And I have a long list. And most of the things I've experienced are pretty short-lived.

And when I was thinking about it, whenever I've had what I think is an encounter with the other side or a ghost, if you will, or a spirit, I've never been scared when it happens. It always, there was only one where I was really scared. But every time something unexplained happens, because sometimes maybe it is just physics and something just falls. But anytime something unexplained happens, it feels just like I have company and I need to like remind them, hey, this is my space too. So like a couple weeks ago, I noticed like things were just. Yeah, yeah. Things were just falling a lot. Like when I get home from work, I have a backpack in my purse.

and I always put my purse on one dining room chair, and I always put my backpack on another dining room chair. And I get home from work around 7.30 or 8, and I put it down. And then I'm in bed, and I have sleep issues. So it takes me a long time to fall asleep sometimes. So I was in bed. And then at like two or three in the morning, I heard my backpack just fall off the chair. And I was like, okay, that couldn't be just gravity because my backpack has been sitting there since like 8 p.m. Again, I don't feel scared. I don't feel threatened. I'm just like, if you're here, just be nice. And so, but I just chalked it up to like maybe it was just like leaning on something the whole time. And then so I fell asleep and I woke up. And right when I woke up, my book I had laying on the pillow next to me just slid off

the pillow onto the floor. And I was like, all right, I stood up. I got out of bed and I acted like I was talking to a five-year-old. And I was like, I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. You're welcome to be here if you're nice, if you're kind and respectful. But you cannot, can I swear? Okay. I don't know if you had like, you're muted. Yes. Yes, you can. Sorry, I didn't realize I meet it myself. self. But yeah, go for it. It's okay. Because I, because I swore at the ghost and I was like, you cannot suck with my shit. Like, this is a shared space. I live here and you're welcome to stay here, but you cannot mess with my stuff. Not because it scares me, but because it's really

inconvenient. I don't want to bend over. I don't want to bend over and pick something up. I'm too old for that. And after that, haven't had any issues. Everything has stayed in a spot. My Christmas ornaments were also falling in the middle of the night and things like that. So it could have just been gravity. It could have just been physics or whatever, but I just after that. I'm just going to say, Sam, if it's gravity, you have a lot of it. I have a lot of gravity in my burden. Or I'm just really bad at putting things away. But when I first moved into this apartment, two-ish years ago, I was losing stuff all the time. And it was not in the place where I put it. blast. And again, I've never been scared of that kind of stuff. It's mostly just like,

can you stop? Can you not? Like, geez. But then it kind of escalated to like being touched. And I don't mind that. Surprisingly, I don't know why I don't mind it. Like it would just feel like somebody tapping my shoulder or my arm or like I'd be sitting on the couch and like I'd feel a cold spot next to me and all that stuff. I don't care. I think the reason why I don't care is because, you know, we're sharing this plane with other spirits. And I hope one day, if I were a spirit that was still earthbound, whoever I was haunting was okay with it. Like, you know, trying to have empathy for whoever used to live here. But when they started touching me while I was sleeping, that's when I was like, you gotta stop.

Like, that's when I started the like, we're going to salt the door. We're going to like, you know, put crystals everywhere. And I did stop after that. And after a while, I kind of missed it. So I took the salt away and I put the crystals away. I'm just so touch deprived. I think it's so funny that you actually mentioned that. Because in my head, I was like, a little noose for the listeners.

I'm going back to Podfest in January, to Florida. And last year, they gave us the chance to do stand-up, and we chose to do some improv. But this year, I was like, wait, I kind of want to give stand-up a chance. So I started working on this thing. And I was like, yeah, like, I work at the Winchester Mystery House. And I was like, which is great, you know. But then I was all, at some point, I was talking about like, yeah, like, and one day I asked, management what would happen if someone got polter groped?

There was no... Where's the FBI for that? And I was just like, you know, like, sometimes I like wouldn't mind that. Like, not because it's a ghost, but because I've been single too long. I know. That's how hard it is to date in 2025, going into 2026, is we're resorting to dating the afterlife. Like, it has to be going.

standards have really They haven't They haven't like gone down But like we're more open to like The damn pool That's hilarious Oh my God that'd be a great bit Please do

But yeah so when you mentioned that I was like I'm like like I can't believe like we're on the same wavelength of like I don't mind to touch here and there because I've been single so long I know I was like I'm going to sweep that salt away Here's the safe zone Keep going. But yeah, I mean, as far as like being spooked in my apartment, everything has been fine. I don't feel like I'm in danger or anything.

No one has ever been scared to be here. And I like living here. But I do think I do have an inkling that the dropping things was my grandpa trying to get my attention because he was a little bit of a jokester. grandfather. And when I was 12, he passed away. And so in October, I went to go visit his grave for the first time since I was 12 years old. So it had been like almost 20 years. And it was a really emotional thing for me because, you know, I hadn't, I miss him. And, you know, I hadn't been to the grave before and before his funeral and all that stuff. And so when I was there, this was in Seattle. So it was pouring rain and super gray and gloomy. And when I was there, you know, I was standing at the grave. And I told him, I missed him. And I was like, if you're there, if you're with me, please give me a sign.

Please give me a sign that you're with me. And I kid you not, the rain immediately stopped. The clouds broke apart and the sun came through. I mean, that was not in the forecast at all. And it was sunny the rest of the day. And I just, I'm getting. I'm getting crazy about it. Like, I don't know if it was just a weather pattern or coincidence or what have you.

But like it just really made me feel like it was really there and really listening. And then, so that was at the end of October. No, that was early November. And then the things started falling like during Thanksgiving when the holidays are. And we would normally go visit him on Thanksgiving. that's what I was going to ask if there was like a significance around that time frame. Right, right. And so at first I was like, oh, this has to be like some weird spirit that's just attached to me.

And then I realized, oh, wait, it's probably grandpa nocker. And then I felt bad for treating him like a five-year-old. See, I was going to, when you were telling me that you started like that you stood up and you started talking to the ghost in my head, like as you were explaining, I was like, oh, like gentle parenting. And then you're like, can I swear? Not gentle parenting. It's all about how you say it.

Not necessarily what you say. Yeah. You're here, you little poop. Yeah. So that has mostly been like my physical experience. Although I did see one ghost. I've never seen a ghost. But the one time I did, that's the one that really scared me, which I don't know if we have, do I have time?

Yeah. You have a whole hour for yourself if you want to use it. Okay. Just kidding. So this one, it did spook me. I was telling my brother this story right before this. Because when I tell the story, it doesn't seem scary. But when I was in it, it was like freaky.

So like I told you before, my college undergrad was, it's a refurbished mental institution. So it used to be, I think it used to be the Camero State Hospital or something like that. And it got shut down during Reagan's era, President Reagan's era. And it actually was a very well-functioning institution for folks who were mentally disabled or had mental health issues. And they were really well cared for. And then once the institution shut down, they're basically homeless and just sent on the street. No care whatsoever. So in 20, when did I go to college?

2012. So in 2002, I had to think about it. The school got refurbished from an institution to a college. And when I went there in 2012, there were still parts of the college that were unrefeweled. that were unrefurbished and, like, abandoned, quote unquote. And so, you know, you would, as an 18-year-old, you would, like, sneak into the abandoned parts of the building and stuff like that. But the dorms. How did you do that?

I did it a lot my first year. And then I moved off campus. And once I moved off campus, I didn't really do it. Because it was actually pretty dangerous. Like, you could get tetanus. and there was asbestos everywhere and things like that. So, and I was a pretty, I was pretty straight edge in college. So people would go to like drink and do drugs and stuff like that.

But I wasn't really into that. So I got over it pretty quickly. The NSYNC music video, crazy, was filmed there, which I think is a lot. Yes. And Girl Harbor was filmed there. So just some food for thought. But the dorm that I lived in actually did used to be where the patient slept. So when I moved in, I knew that I was in for something.

So I don't remember at what point in the year this was, but it must have been before Christmas because I was living in this specific dorm. But the way it was set up is you open the door and there's like this like vertical hallway and you have like it goes side to side instead of like in front. And you have one room in front of you on the left and one room in front of you on the right. And, you know, there were three of us in each room, two of us in each room. And so I was laying down in my bed. My light was off. My roommate was in her bed.

and we didn't talk very much to each other. So when this happened, I knew that she was freaked out because she was talking to me. And the hallway light was on. So I'm sitting on my bed and the door is like right next to me on my right. And I'm watching Supernatural of all things. So I guess I summoned it in some way. But I'm watching Supernatural. And then I just, I hear something happening.

at the door and my other roommate was expected to, I was expecting her to come home. So I thought it was her. So I turned over and I didn't see her come in, but I saw from the like back corner walk across my doorway was a tall, uh, shadowy silhouette of a man. He was wearing like a bowler hat slash fedora. He had on a long trench coat, the collar was popped and he had these big heavy, boots and I could hear the like stomping of his boots and I looked over and it was just like three steps it was one two three he walked right across the doorway into my other my roommate's other room and I was just like frozen in fear now that I thought he was going to hurt me but more like did I really just see that like did I just that really happened and so I thought okay I didn't so I

looked over at my roommate and I was like, did you see that? And she goes, yes. And I was like, shit, damn it. That means it's real. And so we gathered ourselves. And the only way out of the dorm is to walk where this ghost walked. So we put on, like, we put our heads down and we put our hands out like this and we stormed out. And we went to the residence office. And one of the police officers was there, the campus police was there. And I was telling him. like what happened. And I'm like, I don't know what he can do. You can't arrest a ghost. But I was just like, so like wrapped up in it. And he goes, relax. This place isn't haunted. And I'm like, you just have to say that to keep your job. And whatever. And so then. Is that what you told him? Oh, yeah. I was a mouth of 10 year olds. And I was so scared that I just didn't care. I was like something. Someone has to do something. Like, what am I? supposed to do. I'm going to get possessed in the middle of night, you know, before I was

litched, so I didn't know how to protect myself. And so, um, then I saw my roommates walking towards the dorm and I was like, chasing them down. And I was like, oh my God, we just saw a ghost and it walked into your room. And she goes, this like makes me tear up because it's so freaky. She goes, oh, was he wearing a bowler hat and a trench coat? And I was like, what? Like, yeah. And she goes, oh, I see him walk in your room all the time. Okay. Oh, my God. Have I told this whole story and you've been frozen?

That's hysterical. Sorry, I froze. I just realized and I had told the rest of the story and I was like, that's not the reaction I wanted, Jay. Sorry. You want you to share again? Because the last thing you told me is like, that's before I knew how to protect myself and yeah. Okay. Okay.

So I saw my roommates walking towards the dorm and I chased them down and I was like, oh my God, oh my God, my God. Before you go in there, just so you know, I saw a ghost. We saw a ghost. And this part like makes me tear up because it's so freaky. She goes, I'm not even kidding. She's like, oh, was the ghost wearing a bowler hat and a trench coat? And I was like, yes.

And she's like, oh, I've seen him walk into your room a million times. times. No. Oh, thank you for that. And that was like the first time that you saw him walking. I saw him. Yeah. I mean, they didn't bother telling you before like, hey, by the way, like this tall man with a bowler hat has been walking to your room for the past nights.

I don't talk to those people anymore because after that, I moved. I was like, get me out. I want to go somewhere else. And then once I moved, I was fine. I went to a different form and then the next year I moved off campus. I think it's wild that you brought this up because I got chills, like goosebumps as you were saying this. Thank you. Have you heard of the Hatman?

Yes. That is not like in depth, but I know that he. he's kind of like a legend, right? Or like some, like some, like that was what was walking into your room. That's who it was. Because as soon as you said that, I was like, is this going where I think it's going? And it went there. Tall, solid black silhouette.

Broad, brimmed hat or fedora or top hat. Yeah. Bowler hat. Sometimes people see him with like glowing eyes. But also like the trench coat. And like also like. like standing in like a doorway or like hallway. Oh my god, Jay.

I'm going to start crying. I'm going to froze. Of course, if at some point, you want to look it up, you're welcome to. No, I experienced.

Or we can do that. Okay. I don't want to get my sister on the podcast as well because she also had of experience with the hat man. So this is, you don't, oh, fuck. Okay.

So this isn't like, oh, an old resident at the, like, this is like a thing. This is a thing. Yeah. I am like, where do I? I know you're going to salt your door after this. Just my stage. Um, and like the thing is like my sister woke up in the middle of the night because my dad gets up to work super early. So she thought I was him.

And like her door was open and she saw like a tall man like just waving at her. like the shadow and like she just turned around and went back to sleep thinking it was my dad. But then later she was like, no, like it was wearing a hat. It was way too tall to me my dad. But yeah. What does he want? No one knows. It's like there's sightings of this hat man.

Okay. Does he just want to be loved? Like I can do that. I can, you know, just I just don't want him to possess me and control my mind. Honestly, I don't think he would do that. I just don't think that anyone's had like a negative experience with him. It's just been sighties. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. That makes me a lot better. I want to tell you something else that like the common sightings have been, but I don't want to freak you out. So I think I'll keep it to myself for now. Okay. Tell me in the daylight.

And then, and then on the next episode, you can update everybody on what my reaction was. We'll do. And then imagine I start convulsing and spitting. liar. That's wild. Well, it's funny that you mentioned that too because now I remember my cousin. So technically my dad's cousin. So my second cousin, first cousin once I moved, something like that.

She lived in Ventura, which is like 20 minutes from where the college was. And she's psychic. She's a medium. And so I went to her right after. and I stayed with her for like a couple nights because I was like, I've never had this. I don't know what to do. And she told me I was fine and everything like that because her late husband at the time, he passed away a while ago.

But he was full-blooded Navajo Indian. And so they gave me like, I think she gave me sage, but I couldn't burn it. So she gave me something to at least hold on to, like, keep the area cleansed and things like that. But that was, I think that was like my entry into like, I should be a witch to protect myself. So, yeah, that was the only thing that like, I did, again, I was only scared because I didn't know what I was seeing.

I didn't feel threatened. I didn't feel like I was in danger or anything like that. But then I was like, that was like my like snap to reality of like, this is where you're living. This is what used to be here. The past still exists, and sometimes the past and the present kind of converge and you get to see it. So it was pretty wild. Wow.

And what was this school called again? California State Channel Islands. Okay. So, yeah, it was, and it was only like five years old at the time when I went there. It was a pretty new university. No, it was 10 years old. Okay. The school was 5 years old.

not you. No, I was 18. Because it sounded like you said, I was only five years old and I was like in the school, right? Yeah. We got a child prodigy here. But like, other than that, I've had like, you know, flashes of spirits, I would imagine our spirits. one time a friend of a friend, I never met her, but she had passed away. And I didn't know she was passed away.

And so I was out at a winery and this girl was standing next to me and she was leaning over and looking at me like this. And I like looked at her and I waved. And then I turned around and I turned back and she was gone. And I was like, oh, girlfriend had to pee or something. I don't know. And then I find out later that day that a girl that looked at, looked like the girl I saw had died. And I imagine it was, it was her.

Which was pretty like, again, I wasn't scared. I was actually very sad because she was so young, you know? And, you know, there was just a lot of like emotion around it. And so I got flowers for her just to like commemorate and like honor the fact that I think I saw her. And I was like, you know, I don't know if I really saw you, but if it was you, just know this is a safe space and all that stuff. And again, it was pouring rain when I did this and I looked out the window and there was a full rainbow. I could see the end of either side. Normally when I see a rainbow, you can't really see. You only see half of you. I mean, it was like, oof. And I was like, all right. It was her. She saw it. She acknowledges me. There you go. Like, yeah, yeah. So. Most of my spirit interactions have been like that have been really sweet. Like positive and small and sweet. Yeah, really positive.

And I think that's what makes me drawn to the other side is these are actual people that have died. Like, they're not scary. That's why I'm not against ghost hunting in any means. I do think it's important to have the knowledge and to like better understand the other side and how we can communicate with them. but shows like that try to like yeah that trying to like egg them on and get a reaction out of them just to me it feels like almost disrespectful because it's like somebody is trying to rest and you're trying to wake them up and usually those people that they're looking for died dramatically and why would you want to make them live that and oftentimes spirits are stuck in the moment that

they died. So it's like, I don't know. But I still watch them. So I'm like, do I really like, so. Fair. You know. A couple times I've done it. It's been very much of like gentle parenting. I was like, hey, this is how this machine works. I was like, if you go on this side, it does this really cool thing. If you go on this side, this is really all the cool thing. I, it's just gentle parenting on my side. And I'm sure that at some point I could just be talking to like a middle age man. And he's like, I know how it works. But I was like, I'm not trying to patronize me. I was like, I'd rather just not mock you type of thing. Absolutely. And it's just like, you know, and I hope that we get to a point where if that is something you want to do, it's all like what you do,

where it's like, I just want to hear your story. I don't want to poke the bear. I don't want to like intentionally get scared. I don't want to make you mad. Like just hearing the story. And and getting to know who they were. So that's always why I've never been scared of ghosts. I've never, at least when they present themselves to me in a nice way, if you present yourself to me in a spooky way where you're like hovering over my bed, like I'm going to be a little freaked out. Yeah, yeah.

I don't know what you are. That's why when like the touching me at night happened, I was like, we got to stop with that. That's just. Let's set some boundaries. Yeah, we're going to have to set some boundaries here. Now that I've talked about it, they're probably going to do it again tonight, which is awesome.

If I fall asleep, right? But yeah, so I'm glad that it kind of led me down the witchy path because it has the witchy stuff, whether it is like spicy psychology, as they say, or actual magic. Like, it has brought me a lot of comfort and it just gives me a lot of like a new way to explore my sense of self and who I am and what I can do. And, you know, if I can't, if I really am talking to a spirit, like, that's pretty freaking cool. You know, like, there's no quantitative physical way that we have yet that we can do that. Yeah, it's a lot of, like, science would like to prove it, but there's, like, no hard evidence. And, yeah. Right.

And I do think, I'm not a big conspiracy theorist, but there are some things where I will, like, die on the hill for. I do think the government has figured out a way to talk to dead people and they don't want to tell us. There has to be. We have another episode where we talk about that because there's so many like experiments that they've done like years ago that they've disclosed as time goes by. Yeah. Right, right. Or just like even going back to the witch trials. I mean, I know that that was mostly rooted in misogyny and sexism and all that stuff.

But like, there has to be, like, there has always been this, like, fear of what, of that, that there is more that we can do that we're just not willing to. And we've always wanted to, like, suppress it. And I'm not about that. If you can use it safely, not to hurt yourself or anyone else, why not? You know, so I don't know. It just, it's made me feel way more empowered in who I am, the more I get to know that side of myself. whether or not I'm insane. Yeah.

I don't know. But I feel like if I'm questioning, if I'm insane. If you are, so is like a quarter of the world. Yeah, exactly. Because someone's worse off with me. So that's awful. Well, Sam, thank you for coming. Thank you so much for having me.

This was super fun. I really, really had a good time. Honestly, it really was. I'm so glad you did. Because that's what I was hoping you would have. have like a good time. Oh, absolutely. Like I said, love to talk. You gave me a microphone and a camera. Game over. Your reactions were great, especially when I was like, this is a story. You're like, other than that, if the listeners would like to give you a follow, where they can, where can they

stock you? Where can they find you? Like in social media? Yeah. So you can find me on Instagram at S. Gene. J-E-N-N-E underscore A. I am pretty private. I have a pretty basic profile, but if I know that you follow Jay or Chambers would be a cult, then I'll probably let you in. If not, then I'm going to keep you guessing. Love that. And with that, I guess we'll wrap up for tonight, Sam.

Sounds good. Thank you so much. Yeah. Well, folks, thank you for listening. You know where to find us and have a great rest of your night or day or whatever you're doing. Bye. Thanks for listening to Chambers of the Occult. For photo, sources, or anything else mentioned during the episode,

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