Chambers of the Occult - EP# 39: Trouble in Twin Falls and a Violent Poltergeist: A Wildlife Crime Ring and the San Pedro Poltergeist

Episode Date: January 27, 2026

Send us a textIn this episode of Chambers of the Occult, we travel from the wilderness of Idaho to a quiet bungalow in San Pedro, uncovering two stories where something goes terribly wrong and those asking for help are left unprotected.Milo begins with a recent true crime case out of Twin Falls, Idaho, where a routine traffic stop exposed a sprawling wildlife poaching ring. What started with a few untagged deer unraveled into a years long investigation involving dozens of illegally killed animals, revoked hunting licenses, steep fines, and jail time. It is a case that raises uncomfortable questions about thrill seeking, power, and how easily conservation laws are ignored when no one thinks they are being watched.Then, J takes us into one of California’s most disturbing paranormal cases, the San Pedro Poltergeist. In the late 1980s, a single mother named Jacqueline Hernandez began experiencing escalating activity inside her home. Objects moved, lights appeared, a violent apparition emerged, and a presence followed her even after she fled the house. When she sought help, she was blamed, dismissed, and investigated herself, while the haunting grew increasingly aggressive.Together, these cases explore what happens when rules are broken, warnings are ignored, and the systems meant to protect people and animals fail them entirely.From poaching rings to violent hauntings, this episode asks one simple question.What happens when you are hunted, haunted, and left to face it alone?

Chambers of the Occult may contain content that might not be suitable for all listeners. Listener discretion is advised. Yeah, welcome back everyone to Chambers of the Occult, and I would say we're back with our regularly disembodied boys, but this time, if you're watching on YouTube, they took possession of someone. Who? Who? Who?

Who? You? What? Hi. Yes. This guy. Yeah. Oh, man, if I took possession of this guy, of all the people I could have possessed, I think I would have made myself taller. You mean you would have possessed someone taller?

I could have possessed a baller. I could have possessed a girl who looked good. And I would call her. Call her what? So anyway, what's up? Hi. I'm Jay. This is our guest for today, our lovely corporeal Milo.

M-I-L-O, not M-Y-L-O or M-Y-L-O-H or any other spelling that is an affront to God. Milo's the proper. Proper spelling, M-I-L-O. He does indeed get low. you know good good as the guess yeah

what you're also the last guest for 2025 oh shit you're right yeah

is this is this gonna even come out in 2025 not 2025 you're being released in 2026 so then I am

the first guest of 20 well actually know because it's 2025 right now. So I am the last guess of 2025. Anyway, who gives a shit? Yeah, this is behind us. By the time people are listening to this,

2025 is already over. Happy New Year, everyone. As it should be, as it should be. Yeah, so we're going to get into it. Milo, you have a microphone. You have a story to cover for us. Yes. Yes. Because I also have a microphone.

I'm going to interrupt you whatever I can. and feel free to tell me to shut up. But yeah. Perfect. That's perfect. I'm going to be doing that a lot. Just don't talk, actually. I'm going to just like hop off.

And I'll be back in like an hour or so. Yeah. Perfect. Perfect. I'm not going to talk for that long. I'm going to be taking you to Twin Falls, Idaho. Yeah. They have good potatoes.

I didn't know that. How do you know that? Idaho potatoes? Well, this is Twin Falls, Idaho specifically. Okay, fair. I don't know if Twin Falls has potatoes, but Idaho in general. Twin Falls is in an area of Idaho called Magic Valley, so maybe, I don't know. Ooh.

Yeah. Is that like their county? Or just like the... No, it's just a region. It's a region called Magic Valley. Okay. Nice. Yes.

Why are we going to Idaho? Well... Should I ask when? When are we going to Idaho? It's also a good question because this story takes place in 2023. At least it starts off in 2023. It only just concluded. So, you know, as the guest, I got first pickings

on which category I wanted to explore and I chose true crime and Jay as my audience of one your participation in my antics will be mandatory. I know I told you I was going to tell you to shut the fuck up earlier but

I need you to ask questions. I will go ahead and do that. Also, I didn't know that this is a recent story so I'm excited for it because that means I probably haven't heard of it. Oh, I don't think anyone's heard of it. I mean, maybe you have I could be wrong.

If you're in Idaho Twin Falls, you probably have. Most likely. Actually, if you're listening from like Idaho Twin Falls, send us a message. We'll give you a shout out. Have you heard? There's no, this story doesn't have like an official title or anything. But let me get it. Let me get into it. I chose true crime.

Build up to it. You know, get straight to it or just never get to it. Let me edge you a little bit. right? That's a little bit. That's a little bit. So I've been on a bit of a true crime kick lately, specifically wildlife crime.

When I say wildlife crime, what pops into your head? Because I feel like it's pretty self-explanatory, but, you know. Animal versus animal? No, what? That's just nature, baby. That's the circle of life.

Yeah, but, you know, I'm thinking... You don't get... You, like, you would take a bear, and then someone else would take a bear, and they'd be, like, underground bear fighting. That is illegal, but not the... Not what I'm going to be talking about.

Okay. No, no. So, I'm talking about, like, poaching, smuggling. Okay. Et cetera. See? there's something wrong with my brain because that's not the first thing I thought

Wildlife crime Oh my God Animal on animal crime Well animals don't have ethics or laws I mean I think some of them do have ethics But they don't have laws Fair Yeah

So tell us Milo What's happening with animals Well I think been on a bit of a kick this recent, I've been on a bit of a recent kick about animals. Just because recently I listened to a different podcast called Operation Nightcat, and that gave me a brain worm, the same type of worm that probably ate, I don't know, RFK's brain.

What? You know? No. You know what I'm talking about? His brain was eaten. Are you serious? I didn't know this. This was months ago.

This was a year ago. Yeah, he said he got a brain worm and it ate a hole in his brain. Anyway, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Forget I said that. We're talking about something out. A different animal.

All right. Different animal. But I do want to talk about Operation Nightcat very briefly. Just because it's another podcast. It's a many series following a fishing game warden's investigation into some bobcat poaching that ends up being tied to a series of abuse in a local prison.

And it's an interesting listen, and I highly recommend it. One of the best podcasts I've listened to recently. Obviously, I'm not sponsored. I just genuinely enjoyed listening to that series. No, no, that's totally fair. I find that fascinating because it's not something I would listen to casually, but if it's something that people would recommend, I would give it a listen, and be like, okay, like, now I'm hooked.

I would recommend it. It's by NHPR, New Hampshire Public Radio. It's great. And it also makes sense, I feel like, for someone like me to enjoy it. Because why do you think that makes sense? Why do you agree? I agree because I agree because technically you're out of nature, but like you're not out of nature. I'm just thinking of like you're like you're like, you're like, you're like,

muscle inspector job, but I was like, but that's not really like in, in nature, but it's like in nature. I am in nature. What are you talking about? No, I know, but like, how often do you go like in nature when you're like in your job? My office was literally at a park. Yes. I walk, brough. I'd walk five feet. I'd literally open up my window and there's a bunch of water. Yeah, but do you go in it? No, but that's because I can't swim. That's okay, fair. Never bye. So for some context, I know you're familiar with my background, but for people not familiar with my background,

I worked at a reservoir as a boat inspector, and I was crawling under boats, looking for invasive speed feeds, muscles to be exact. And if I were to find anything, I would have to call fish in wildlife. Thankfully, I never did find anything, but I did have to deal with a lot of entitled people's bullshit and your boy called the Park Rangers a lot

but anywho back to the matter at hand wildlife crime yes bobcats this case Bobcats this isn't going to be a Bob it's about one Bobcat that's going to be

not about that that's Operation Nightcat Operation Nightcat the podcast is purely about Bobcats. My only my investigation only has one Bobcat. Only one. Okay. Only one. And because you're only covering one

does it have a name? The Bobcat? I'm not, no, the bobcat does not have a name. What? Okay. Just asking Are we just going to refer to it as the bobcat? The bobcat is

a very minimal part of this story. There's a different animal. I'm going to be talking to. Because where we need to go, Milo. I'm talking too much. Back to the matter of hand. Wildlife Crime. This case happened pretty recently. I don't think it's particularly famous, in my opinion.

It doesn't have a cool case title or anything. Yet, that is, because I'm pitching a title right now. I'm going to call this one Trouble in Twin Falls. Because that's where our story takes place in Twin Falls, Idaho. Let's get into it. It's October 23rd, 2023. You're a fishing game warden during a routine traffic stop. You know what a fishing game warden is, right?

I imagine I know what they are, but for those of us, you don't know what they are, did you explain? Including me. I think most people know what fishing game wardens are. but I'm going to give you a brief two-word description, nature police. Yeah, cool. You're a fishing game warden. You pull over a group of hunters and you find five mule deer heads in their car. This traffic stop is going to lead to a two-year investigation resulting in 17 convictions

and a fine total of roughly $48,000. Okay. Not where this was going. Not where I thought this was going. I don't know much about wild hunt and things like that and people's permit. And when it's like season to hunt and not season to hunt, but I imagine that was also a lot of deer. Oh, yeah. And I'm about to teach you a lot about hunting. Okay. Please do. It's going to suck. Oh. But anyway.

Thank you for the heads up. These game wardens just uncovered a poaching ring. Now, you may be wondering, Milo, why the fuck doesn't matter that some hunters killed some deer? That's kind of what they do. And to that, I would reply. Actually, they killed 32 meal deer, but the real reason this is so important is that those deer were untagged. Let me explain.

Yeah, go ahead. So if you want to become a hunter, you've got to get a hunting license, right? Yes. Once that's acquired, you can kill anything you want, right? Wrong. No, not how it works. Not only do you need a hunting license. You need a hunting tag.

A tag specifies what types of species you are allowed to kill, the sex of the species, and the season you're allowed to hunt. in. Okay. That's pretty straightforward for now. Yes. Yeah. Now is the tag something that the hunter has?

The tag is something the hunter has to acquire. Okay. Got it. Let's say I get a hunting license and I get a mule deer tag. You know, you've got to specify the species. You can't just hunt whatever deer you want, all right? It's got to be mule deer. or white-tailed deer or whatever,

I can hunt mule deer, but I can only hunt males, no females. And I got to do it during a specific season. So when we're referring to deers that are untagged, that means that these hunters were also killing female deer. Can't be doing that shit. Now, I will admit, this is a lot of bureaucracy, but it's important for maintaining wildlife numbers

and our ecosystem. Yeah, no, I figure that this is in place for a reason. It's mostly to maintain good numbers and not have them, drive them to the brink of extension. Yeah. And especially because, you know, 200 years ago, roughly 200 years ago, there were no hunting regulations. Yeah.

It was just lawless wasteland where people killed animals by the hundreds, whether it be for sport or profit. mostly profit, mostly profit or just plain boredom It's so interesting that you're bringing this up because as you're talking about it I was like, wait strangely enough I have

more knowledge on when it comes to preservation against poachers when it comes to rhinos than when it comes to deers and we have no rhinos in the U.S. What are you talking about? I saw a rhino the other day, the native, California.

What? Yeah. Do you ever think about how a caveman would react to like a Rav4, a Toyota Rav4 or really any car? Okay, I imagine if it's like any sort of like truck, they would be a lot more. I mean, either way they're going to be intimidated by a vehicle. I feel like they would be intimidated Maybe observe it from a distance Throw something at it

And then like when it doesn't react Maybe like go poke it and then like touch it I don't think that would be able to like Open a door Unless it's by like accident Or like they break a window But even then But why are we talking about this?

I don't know It was just a question God No no it's totally fine Yeah, no, I just generally think that like a caveman would be, it would go from being scared, thinking that it's an animal that they've never met, to them observing them from a distance, kind of like tucked away, tossing things at them, and then when it doesn't move, get closer and just investigate. Yeah.

I do not think that they would ever be able to learn how to drive a vehicle, but they would probably just like poke around. No, I don't think they would. Okay, this is also another unrelated question, but me and Jesse, my partner, were talking. And for some reason, we were thinking about whether or not Rocky from Rocky Horror Picture Show could drive a car. Do you think he could drive a car? Badly, I would say. You'd think it a lot?

Badly. I think, like, it would be. Mm-hmm. Like one of those, like, sci-fi movies when, like, someone gets in a vehicle, like a flying ship or something, and they have no idea how it works. And they're just being a complete menace in the road.

Yeah. I feel like that would be Rocky. All righty. All righty. I think, I don't think he could actually start the car. I think the only way Rocky could ever be in a car is if, I don't know, Frankenfurter. taking him somewhere, leaves him in the car for a hot second.

Hot car baby death? I don't know. And then Rocky just, you know, starts the car, or not actually starts the car, it's got to still be running. And then he drives away. He would drive badly, though. Not very good driver. The car has to be running. I don't think that they would. I don't know.

Because I'm just thinking, I was like Rocky doesn't have like. Their knowledge is very limited. Yeah. I don't think car is in their knowledge. It would have to be on. Well, yeah. And they would have to be, like, accidentally mess on the Prendel. The Prendel?

Yes. The Pindle? The gear shift. What do you call it? The gear shift. Fair, but Pindle is what it says. Anyway. we've gotten insanely off topic

Anyway You shouldn't poach You shouldn't hunt just to hunt You know The type of hunting that we did 200 years ago Without all the regulations That led to the extinction

Of multiple Northern American species It almost wiped out tens of others Like bison and beavers and y'old deer I love Bers and Bisons though I just love how big Bisons are I've never seen one in real life

Oh no Have you seen one? No How do you know how big it is then Well because growing up I watch a lot of national geographics Well they're tiny in the screen Well yeah but like there's Okay I guess so

Anyway Let's get back now Let's get back to the hunting. I'm not, okay, I'm not one, the Pat law enforcement on the back, ACAM. But I am glad that the game wardens actually investigated those four hunters. Because it turns out it wasn't just four hunters killing a couple deer. It was 19 hunters. And it wasn't just deer.

Yeah, yeah. They killed a bull moose. They killed a bobb moose. cat and a swan for some reason. I don't know why. I know what are you going to say?

No, I don't know what I was going to say, but it was going to be related to the swan. Sorry, I just keep thinking that like swans have a mate and they like they stick together for life. And now there's a widowed swan out there. Yeah. Yeah.

And I mean, swans are kind of assholes But I don't see what the point of killing a swan would be No Also, I feel like that's also like something you don't hear of a lot Swans getting killed Yeah I know a guy who would just like shoot crows in his backyard This is not that far from here too

It's because a crow had killed his cat It was a weird situation Fair But also crows don't kill cats they're scavengers. Anyway. Anyway. Thanks for the fun time. In total. In total, this group of poachers killed 35 animals.

That's a lot of animals. Yeah, 19 poachers. Wow. And how, yeah, anyway, keep going. I'm sure you'll answer my questions. What were we going to ask? What are we going to ask? Because you said that this investigation took quite a few years. Yeah, this took two years. these people

the game wardens uncovered a whole poaching ring um were what were those the animals that got killed like while the investigation

was happening or just like in total no those animals were killed before the investigation happened oh okay

now this story does have a slightly happy ending I would say slightly happy um almost every hunter had their license revoked for multiple years. Some lost their licenses for life.

Wow. Yeah. Multiple hunters are facing jail time, and practically everyone was fine, with the total resulting in $48,631. That's not enough, though. It could be more. Okay. I'm just going to say, you said $48,000, how much?

48,631. And let's divide that by 19, because there was 19 poachers, right? Yes, technically divided by 17 because two are still at large. They didn't get to. Okay. Oh, by 17. Well, yeah. Shoot, how do I go back?

Okay, give me the grand total again. 48,631. 631 divided by 16. Right? Yeah. Or $17. That would be... Okay, by $16, it's about like $3,000 everyone.

And some change. They could have been fine more. They could have been fine more. Some of them are also facing jail time, though, and getting their licenses revoke. And their licenses were revoke, and then for some of them for life. Yeah, some of them lost their licenses for life. Some of them lost them for 15 years. Wow. Okay, that is not what I was expecting when you said revoked for like years.

Okay. I also imagine that when you're like a hunter, like getting your license revoked, it's a pretty big deal. It is. I feel like that would hurt them more than the fine itself. Wow. I don't know. I'm just trying to like imagine like what is the point of like poaching like, were they really making any money out of what? they were doing or was it just for the fun of it? That's a really good question. Sometimes it is truly just about the game.

Yeah. Sometimes it really isn't about the money. It's just about gamifying. Yeah. And you know, I don't, I'm not against hunting in general. but there is

I think there's a certain point where that thrill of the kill is a little bit too obsessive yeah I feel like that could happen with anything but I get it I get how it can become addictive

either way moral of the stories don't fuck with animals not because they'll kill you or anything. I mean, yeah, they will kill you if you do fuck with animals. I don't know where I was going with this. Just don't illegally kill

animals. How about that? I mean, I feel like there's a pretty I don't know. When it comes to like hunting game and all that stuff, like it just seems that there's a right way to go about it. Yeah. So like, why would you not go the right way about

it? I don't know. I'm not those men. The right way about it is lame. The right way about it is lame. And I don't want to be a loser. How about that? Do things their own way. How would I do whatever the fuck I want?

God. You ever thought about that? That's true. That is actually a good point. Some of them are going to deal. Yeah. Yeah, I wouldn't say that I'm happy with the ending, but I would say I think,

the punishment was severe enough for them. Yeah. Especially knowing that if you did this for the thrill of it, you're not going to have that thrill any time soon. Yeah.

Yeah. That was my rant. Thank you. Is there any names of like the people involved that you have? There are, there are names actually. I could give you names right now. Was there like a master of like getting everything together or like one suggests that the idea and everyone else just more like, yeah, let's do it? I don't believe so.

I don't believe there was a ringleader. But the main group of four are the ones that were primarily named. There were 10 people apart of, you know, the 19 convicted that were, did remain nameless. the police did not release their names, you know, that's fine. But they still, those nameless people did still face consequences, whether it be fines jail time and or licenses revoked. Yeah. And slash or all of those.

Yes. You said that it took two years. Do we know why it took so long? That's a good question. I don't know why it took so long. Totally fair. With investigations like this, I think since it has to do with animals, this is my best guess, you know, this is me pulling shit out of my ass, I think it's finding enough evidence and also tying people to each other. Yeah.

Because there are only so many game warnings. And they also, another thing with Game Mortons is that they are technically law enforcement. They can be called upon to enforce any laws. It's just that their specialty is anything having to do with wildlife, wildlife regulations. And so often when wildlife, when Fish and Game are also working with police departments to convict somebody, They don't want to get them on a double jeopardy. A double jeopardy? They don't want to get them on a double jeopardy.

So that's something they have to also be aware of. Are these people committing other crimes, doing separate investigations to make sure that we're not convicting them of something that is less than what they actually might deserve? Yeah, I'm also realizing that convicting four people might not take two years, but convicting 19, or because they've found. on 16, that might take two years actually. Yeah. Yeah.

Because this started in October of 2023, and it ended about November 4th, 2025. So pretty recently. It's like a recent thing. Yeah. With three of them still at large.

Two of them. Two of them. Two of them. At least as far as November. At large, because I was like, it's not like, I mean, I guess they are running away from the law, but like for poaching. I guess, Yes, it is, it is appropriate to say that. But the main, I guess not necessarily the main guys,

but the four that had been a part of that initial traffic stop. They weren't related. It was Robert Zico and Nicholas Zico, Darren George, and Jeff George. And those were the main

That had been named Because they were a part of that original traffic stop With the five mule deer heads I'm also not surprised because it feels like Hunting it's a very It's like a thing that friends do But also a thing that like family members would do So okay

Well I'm not sorry their license got revoked We got to do that with every old person with their driver license. Not actually, don't do that. What, revoked their driver's license? Yeah.

Not actually. I feel like I am of the thought process that people should retake the test every couple of years. I don't think that there's anything wrong with that, to be honest. Yeah. If anything, it would be like a refresher.

Yeah. When was the last time you took a driving test? Oh shoot, that was probably when I first got my license. Because, yeah, they don't make you retake it when you get like your license renewed. Yeah. I wonder if it's something to do with the fact that they're like always understaffed. I actually never thought about that. That's a good point.

Maybe. Maybe. But this seems like a good transition. Yes. Just like my good transition. So thank you for that, Milo. I had little to know knowledge about poaching. And if anything, you just gave me more knowledge, which I'm always grateful for.

And knowing is half the battle. Is it? Yes. Okay. Is that like a phrase or is that just something you just came up with now? No, that's a phrase. Dude, I've been making references this entire time and they just over the head. It's been a day.

Me too. Dude, I also worked. I saw you. I know. Actually, you were at the end. Were you at the other place or were you at? No, I was at Winchester today. Okay.

Okay. Yeah, I found it so funny how like yesterday when you saw me in the sand's room, I caught like a glimpse of you. but it was very much of like your eyes and eyebrows and hair. And like you were raising your eyebrows. And I was like, that's my little. But also I was like, that's kind of creepy. And then when I saw you the time after that, I was just like, okay, cool. We're here at work and we'll just never see each other.

That's true. Yeah. Because I avoid you. Like the plane. You know what? That makes a lot more sense now. Are you avoiding me? where am I avoiding you?

You could never avoid me. I'm everywhere. That's probably true. Anyway, do you ever think about... Oh, my bad. No, yeah, tell me, tell me. I was going to... I was going to say... No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I was going to say, you ever think about that, the thought process, or not the thought, that, that, that... The question of, like, okay, you have a snail that is trying to kill you. A snail? Yeah, it's an indestructible snail. There's a snail somewhere in the world trying to kill it you. This is a hypothetical.

Yeah. Could you survive? Could you survive? I would say for a certain amount of time, hopefully I would die by natural cause and not snail murder. Well, it's just

the second the snail touches you, you die. Yeah. That's why I'm saying like I think I would be able to. I think I could go for maybe like five years. I'm too oblivious. I'd also, I'd see a snail and I'd pick it up. Okay, that's what I was going to ask. Do you have knowledge that there's a snail out there trying to kill you? Or do you have no knowledge?

I think in order for it to work, you have to have knowledge that the snail is going to kill you. Or trying to kill you. I think I would be able to like survive. Mm-hmm. Although, okay, now I'm going to take this and give it like a twist. Like let's say like that is out there. Uh-huh. And then your friends or like your nemesis finds out or like someone that really hates you or like a stranger finds that out and they grab that snail and they take it to you.

Would they be convicted for murder? because they technically didn't kill you, but they facilitated the murder. Well, this, this, I don't know if in this world other people are aware that, oh yeah,

if you touch the snail, this snail will kill. Because I think the hypothetical implies that you are the only person who has knowledge that the snail is trying to kill you. But if for whatever reason you impart this knowledge to your enemy. Yeah. Or they over here.

And they use, or they over here, I guess. And they use that to kill you. I don't think the law is going to care. Because, dude, what? Okay, no, that's fine. I was just curious about it. that. This is like

how much how much time in jail does the wizard get if he turns you into an animal? Have I told you?

Have I told you that hypothetical? No, wait what? Damn it. Oh, good. Okay, so me and the, a couple a while ago, me and Jesse

were watching a video of, of somebody of somebody giving the villains from Scooby-Doo jail time, you know, depending on their crimes. And I had the thought, like, okay, you get turned into an animal. Okay, someone you know, or actually no, okay,

shout up. Evil wizard turns somebody into an animal. How much time in jail does the evil wizard get? Yes, there is malicious intent. It's an evil wizard. He was doing it to be malicious. I am probably going to be completely different from what you guys have discussed. I've probably just said... Okay. I was probably just going to say probation. Probation? Yeah.

Explain why, please. Because, okay, did the person get turned back into a human afterwards? See, there's different routes we could take this in. Okay. Because from what I've told people and the data that I've gathered, so if evil wizard turns somebody into an animal and they can't turn back, many people equate that to murder. And so life in prison for the wizard.

But if it is reversible via another spell, people have had mixed opinions, where some people think oh it's fine because it was reversible by another spell. Yeah. And others are like,

no, he should still get jail time. Emotional damages. Yada yada. Okay, that's what I'm thinking that it's like if you get to the point

and they're like, okay, Mr. Wizard, we need you to like to reverse that spell and if you do it, you will only be like with like a slap on the wrist

like probation. I see, that's what would happen because they're like, okay, now they turn them back. If they can't turn them back, I wouldn't equate that to murder. Okay, is the person still, like, you know, sentient that they were human and then they got turned into an animal? Yes, they are still sentient. No, I wouldn't equate that to murder because then there's all those questions of, like, people asking their partners, like, would you still love me if I was like a lizard or like a snail?

And they're like, oh, yeah, of course I would love you. or like a warm, and they're like, no, I wouldn't love you. But I'm just like, I feel like that'd be fine. I think that's definitely a more severe sentence, not probation. And I think it all depends on what animal they got turned into. That was also a big one for people. Yes. If you get turned into like a porcupine, like a hedgehog, they don't live like super long lives.

So at that point, I would say it's a more severe punishment. If you get turned into like a tortoise, tortoise, those things live like hundreds of years. At that point, I also think that that would be like unfair and cruel, like what is it called? Unfair and cruel punishment? Punishment, yes. Because you're making them live like hundreds, like 100, 200 years and they would see like their loved ones die, like especially if they have kids. Yeah. You've taken this in a direction

other people have not taken it This is interesting This is fascinating I've gotten a lot of fascinating answers Got it So I feel like you should take this back to your friends That you've talked to and be like The crime shouldn't

Like the sentence should match The lifespan of the animal they got turned into That was also one that people brought up a lot too Mm-hmm And also I feel like there would be a difference if you're like, oh my God, like, I would love to be like reincarnated as a frog, like what Katie says. Yeah. And she gets turned into a frog.

I was like, is that really a bad thing? Oh my gosh. You're just like, O'Mero. He kept going on about wanting to be a bird. See, if he got turned into a bird, would he hate being brought, like, turned back into a person? I don't know, man. No, but, you know, unlike, you know, I don't think that's something that the, system would take into consideration.

Yeah. You wanted to be a frog or a bird. I think it would just be like you hurt a human being. What is the appropriate punishment? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. See? Yeah. Because we also have to take in consideration. I don't know, dependence. Yeah. Okay. Now I'm

curious. I was like, what if you got like this can go anywhere and this needs to be a conversation for its own episode. Like listeners, if you want to have conversations like this, let us know. We'll do like a special episode or something. Because I'm just thinking how it's like, what if he got turned into like one of those like dogs that's missing a leg?

Yeah. What? Like one of those tripod dogs? Yeah. Yeah. Like so. Would that also be cruel and unusual punishment? Well, those dogs are having like the time of their life.

They don't really care of them. I mean, I mean, the dog, dude, we walk on two legs. legs and now you're a dog with just three legs. I feel like, I feel like that'd be fine. Okay. But obviously, if you didn't want to be a dog, then you probably don't want to be a dog, regardless of how many legs you have. Go a lot of different ways.

And I think when it was stir off this topic, because now I'm thinking as like, what if you get turned into a cat? And as a human, you were allergic to cats. I don't think that's, I think certain things would change. Yeah, that's totally. I'm okay with you being turned into. We're talking about magic at this point. Anything's possible.

So, so paranormal. How's a... Yes. The ghost. So we clearly live in California. Have you ever heard of San Pedro? Like San Pedro Square? Okay, yes.

But like the city, like the town of San Pedro. Probably. Okay. I don't even know where it's on the map. I probably should have looked that up. on. Oh, wow. Oh, it's in Alley. We're American. It's the neighborhood in L.A. We don't know geography. We're American. No. Okay. I know some geography enough to maybe get me a D if I took a test now. You know where Yugoslavia was, is?

I do not. I will accept the fact that I do not know where that was. Do you know where it was? No. And I'm pretty sure, I think, Yugoslavia, I'm pretty sure still exists. It's Czechoslovakia. No, no, no. It's, yeah, it's Czechoslovakia that doesn't exist anymore. Czechoslovakia doesn't exist anymore.

It got split into Slovakia and the Czech Republic. That I do know. Yeah. But do you know where they are on a map? Oh, like Yugoslavia? No. Or the Czech Republic or Slovakia. I do know where the Czech Republic is because I've been.

wanted to visit. Oh, right. I don't really into the Czech perfume. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Because you got really into Czech perfume a bit ago. I do remember this. And I took a guitar class

and I was looking at guitars made in the Czech Republic, but that's a whole different side. Yeah. Sorry, Yugoslavia was a Balkan nation existed in various forms from 1918 to the early 2000s. That's where I will leave it because

this is... Motherfucker, what about San Pedro? Motherfucker, San Pedro. You can't have somebody with ADHD on this fucking podcast because this shit's going to just keep happening. It's my podcast. I can have people. No, it's sort of fine. Anyway, we're going to San Pedro. Yes, okay. I'm paying attention. Yes.

We're going to set the scene to get into like what's happening with the story. I want to start with the people who experienced this house before anyone really stepped into it. So we're going to be talking about the babysitters, teenagers, neighbors, friends. Okay. Yep. Because this is about a poltergeist case. Oh.

This is known as the San Pedro Poltergeist. How? Oh, that's a good, I feel like that's a good name. Yes, I also just feel like when people name like a case like this, based on the location I took like the San Pedro Poltergeist, I was like, okay, if like three blocks down the street, another family has another case with a poltergeist, do they have to give it a different name?

Yeah. Okay, fair. I guess that's why some of the hauntings have like the last name of family members when it happened. Yeah. Okay. Not every. There's always going to be a first, okay? There's always got to be a first.

Yeah, I guess. Okay. So let's get on to this. That, I guess so. That's something I should. Okay. I can go down a rabbit hole and I won't. But let's get into this.

this. So to start off, I want you to imagine that you are a 16-year-old babysitter that just got hired. Yeah. I've been hired to babysit a woman down the street. She's a single mom. She's pregnant. She's tired, polite, but you can tell that she's a little bit distracted. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, wait, hold on, hold on. Wait, I'm a babysitter in charge. of taking care of a full-grown adult? No, no, no, no. This is just the person who's hiring you. Oh, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay.

I understand now that I made it sound that you're babysitting the mother, you're not babysitting the mother. Okay. She can take care of herself. Okay, okay, okay, okay. I'm just kind of describing, like, who she is. She's a single mom, she's pregnant,

she's tired, polite, and she seems to be distracted by something. She needs help, so she hires you. Yeah. She hands you a few instructions. She shows you the house. She has one kid, and she tells you that the kid's an easy sleeper, that she won't be back late,

and that every once in a while you should check on the kid. And she also tells you that if something fills off to just not go into the attic. Okay. That's all. So everything feels normal except for like that last comment, but you quickly forget about it. Or maybe you don't knowing you. No, I'd be thinking about that.

going, second that bitch leaves the house, I'm going up into the fucking attic. You for sure got bodies up in there. But yeah, so at first, everything feels normal. You're in the couch, you're watching TV, and then you remember that you have to check on the kid. So, you get up,

you go to the bedroom, and before you can open the door, the bedroom door opens by itself. You don't feel a breeze. It just opens up. You check on the kid. The kid is sleeping. Nothing out of the ordinary. You go back to do your thing.

And then at some point you get hungry, so you go into the kitchen. And that's when you realize that above you, there's some floating lights. They're not reflections. They're not headlights. Just small little balls of light, kind of like splitting into like multiple ones and then like gathering back to like turn into another one. And then that's when you kind of realize that you're definitely not alone at the house. I mean, knowing you, but I would probably just ask just to be safe. Like, what would you do?

Like, do you think it would just be like imagination or something else? I would be, you do know me. I would definitely be like, damn it. I'm hallucinating again or some shit. I've never had hallucinations in my life, but I'd probably be like, we got a gas leak. Somebody called PG&E. Okay.

You try to rational it, like make something rational out of it. Either that or I'm just like, whatever, and I move on with my life. Cool. Well, here's the thing. This wasn't a one-time incident because

multiple babysitters reported very similar things. because the babysitters would just not stick around. Are we sure the babysitters aren't getting high or doing various other drugs? I'm just kidding. From the gas leak. The gas leak, exactly. Gas leak.

Dude, that's why J.K. Rowling is so transphobic now. She's got mold in her apartment. Oh, wait, does she? That's an actual theory. That's a genuine theory as to why J.K. Rowling has been losing her mind. She posted a selfie, and you could see in the back, People are like, oh my God, she has like a shit ton of mold and where she is. But I could be wrong.

She could just be evil. Or both. But sometimes mold does make you do funny. Sometimes mold makes you do crazy things. But yeah, that was kind of like the exposition that I wanted to give you because quite a few babysitters experienced this. So now let's go back to the very beginning. And let's get to know Jacqueline Hernandez. Jacqueline is the mother

So we're going to go back to 1988 And at this point Jacqueline was 23 years old Excuse me, she was... At that point, my... My dad was like six. I was kidding. How old were you?

Like, what? 25? I was not born yet. Oh my... I know I look ancient, but I'm not that old. Anyway, so Jacqueline was 23 years old. She was pregnant at the time, and she had already separated from her husband, Al. I don't know if it stands for something.

I just know that it's Al. She was raising a toddler. She was working multiple jobs, and she was attending night class. So she moved into a small, aging bungalow in San Pedro, California. A working class part of town. And it had a deep marine time history, shipyards, drownings, labor deaths, stretching back decades. And at first, Jacqueline felt something that she never felt before.

Peace. Oh, I thought you were going to say love or something. For the first time. No, she felt peace after she left. her husband Al after she got separated from him. The house didn't feel empty. It also didn't feel hostile. But she later described it as being watched over.

And that kind of like it's strange because some people, I mean, in many hauntings, they don't begin with fear. They begin with comfort. Like they're like, oh, like this is a new house. So a couple weeks passed by and then came the noises. footsteps pasted in the attic scurrying animals

or like noises within the walls pebbles falling inside the walls where there was no gaps and then objects began to move I also don't know what this is because I'm like

I have an imagery but I'm like what was this in 1980 a pencil holder flew off a desk yeah you don't know what a pencil holder is I just think...

It's like those little... But yeah, we're in for all the pencils. Okay. I just picture one for like a single pencil. That's why it's like, what's the pencil? What the fuck? You don't know what a pencil holder is? I have it right here.

I just never knew what to call it. Are you shitting me? It holds my pencils and it has the little drawer in there. But that's, I never knew. When I read that a. pencil holder flew off the desk, I pictured, like, a holder for, like, one of those fancy pants that just holds, like, one item, but for pencils. And I was like, what? Like, are those a thing? Now I feel really stupid. What did you call them before? What did you think they were? Nothing. I generally

didn't give them a name. I knew they held pencils and, like, other things, but that's it. And you never thought, oh man, this thing holds pencil. If only it had a name. I know, just I guess the fucking, it's just this fucking like thing that, yeah, it's, oh, fuck man. No, and now I feel like, now I'm thinking of like what other things in my life do I use and never have thought of what they're called. And now I'm concerned.

I'm also concerned. bro. I didn't buy it so I didn't go to the store see the name pencil holder and be like, oh, that's, you know, take it with me.

But anyway, Jacqueline saw a pencil holder fly off her desk. Yeah. And then that's when things started escalating because a frame painting was found removed from the wall

and it was placed against the sink. And beneath it were a couple nails stood upright. Yes. That's weird. Yeah. So it was like, that was like on purpose. And that's a huge difference.

I feel like there's a huge difference between like a ghost knocking something over and something being arranged purposefully to injure someone. Well, wait. Do we know it was to injure? Or was it just like, oh, hey, these five nails or whatever are bad? are facing, like, pointing up. Oh, pointed up. Okay. Oh, I see, I see, I see. It's not like they were just like playing on the floor. They were all pointing up. I see, I see.

Yeah. So now we're going to skip to February 1989. Because that's when Jeff... Wait, was that in February? I don't know. I don't believe so. Okay. It was during the World Series. It was not in February. Okay, totally fair.

But yeah, Jacqueline entered her into her childhoods bedroom. And that's what she saw across the room. Sitting cross-legged, there was a man. She described him as gray skin, corpse-like. And he was wearing a red flannel shirt tucked into high water pants. He did not speak. He did not move. He just stared.

And then Jacqueline later would say that this was the most terrifying thing that she ever saw, not how he looked, but how he felt. She said that he felt angry. Go ahead. Wait, did she touch him or there was a vibe? It was a vibe. No, no, the vibe. The vibe. Okay, the vibe.

The vibe. Yeah. She said that he felt like angry. And that's what like things. started changing in the house because she would start noticing more things. No matter what time she went to sleep, she would always wake up near midnight.

And that's when, like, things would happen. Window shades snapped upwards, footsteps like thundered overhead in the attic, breathing echoed through the ceiling. And then came the liquid. The liquid? I didn't know what to call it. the icor, and then came the slime?

I don't know. That's true. And what else are you going to call it? The liquid. The liquid, because that's what it was at the time. She didn't know what it was. Oh, that sounds like a liquid. It was just the thing that smelled very foul at the time.

And it began seeping from the kitchen ceiling. And every time that she cleaned it off, it would return. Dude, there's a dead fucking body in the walls. we'll get into it. Oh, God damn it. I was right. Well, eventually, there was investigations that came to the house and things were done. They took some of that liquid and they got sent away to be analyzed.

And it turns out that it was human male blood plasma. And it was mixed with iodine and copper. Yeah. What? I don't know. So at one point, especially when it was coming down into the kitchen, that's when Jacqueline climbed into the attic. Mm-hmm. And that's where she saw the man again.

But this time, it was just his head. It was a floating head of the man, and he lunged towards her. Oh, my God. And then she just fell over. So Jacqueline was terrified at this point, so that's when she saw religious. his help. She got two- please.

Go ahead. Girl, call the police or call a home inspector. You got fucking you got somebody in the walls. Somebody in the walls. I'm going to tell now, no one was found within the

walls. Oh, that's fucking fucked up. Yeah. It's because, dude, he disintegrated. He seeped into the If he waited too long and everything just freaked out into the kitchen. He turned it to the liquid. You literally believed up evidence, man.

No, so she got two priests to help, you know, they arrived. Not one, too. Not one, but two, yeah. Call now and we'll send another one for the same price. Yeah. It's a buy one, get two, you know? Um, this priest did not arrive to comfort her, though, because they started accusing her. They claimed that she had brought death into her house because of a decorative school ornament in the aquarium.

Bruh. So they suggested that her son was possessed, and they ended up blessing her unborn child. Okay. And then they left. Oh, wow. So that's so helpful. They're just about as helpful as the police. Oh, I think what happens next,

you're going to think that they're even less helpful. Yeah. Because the next day, child protected services showed up. Oh, awesome. Because the priest had reported her. They claimed that she was on hallucinogenic drugs while she was pregnant. What?

Yeah. So imagine you're being haunted, and then you're told that you are the danger. So she was investigated, and, you know, like, there were like, no, you're not on drugs. We don't know why the priest made this call, but she did not get any help whatsoever. Yeah. So that's when Jacqueline contacted someone called Barry Taff. Mm-hmm. So on August 8th, 1989, Barry arrived.

with a cameraman named Barry Conrad. So there is Barry Taft and Barry Conrad. Wait, too many berries. No, thank you. Somebody's got to be something else. This investigation team has way too many people with very similar names. Luckily enough, we do have a photographer called Jeff. Oh, awesome.

Jeff Wheatcraft. Weakraft. But Barry Taffin his like, yeah, his like crew of like investigators, they were, they had known, they were known to have done a previous you know

investigations in like paranormal cases. So she was like, okay, maybe I should reach out to this people rather than seek help from the church. Jeff was a photographer and Jeff was a little skeptical at first. So he ended up at some point going up to the attic when they told the crew what was happening.

and then something ripped the camera off from his hands. So he came back down to... Could be. He came back down and then eventually when he went back up there to find his camera, he described it as separate. It was the body of the camera and the lens in separate parts of the attic. And there was about like 15 feet away. and with most professional cameras,

you can't just pull it off. You have to press a button, twist, and pull. So it's not like it fell and they bounced separate ways. But this is also when lights appeared, a black mask moved through the attic, like three, like if it was like three men under like a sheet or something. Yeah.

So Jeff also got to see the lights and the team did as well. Because the lights was something that was like repeated quite often. And a lot of this was like photographed as well. Yeah. So the team would return on September 4th. And this is the time that the haunting turned even more terrifying. Because Jeff was going to go to the attic again. But this time he wasn't going to go alone.

So Jeff was the first one to make his way to the attic, and then people heard him scream. Jesus. So the other people made their way up, Barry and Barry. Okay. Made their way up to the attic. And it was so dark that they had to use a flash on camera to see where Jeff was. And that's when they found Jeff hanging by a clothes. line tied in a sailor's knot and pulled into one of the protruding nails.

Dude, is he dead? No, no. So because Barry was able to go up there, they were able to get him off. And there was red marks circled around his neck. And he also said that he had no memory how it happened. But if it wasn't because there was another investigator up there, like Jeff would have died. Yeah. I do have some of those pictures.

Do you want me to like send you one of those pictures? Absolutely. I would love to take a view. Okay. I'm assuming you're going to send them to me on Discord or phone. Do you want to do it through Discord? Do you want to text it? Either or works for me.

Either or works for me. Okay. So this is the original picture of when they found Jeff because they originally first saw him kind of from like the torso down. so they could see like, okay, why is he like at such a weird angle? And then there is a close-up. Oh, weird. What the fuck?

Yeah. And when he got out of the attic, you can also see the fear that like something happened to him. I'm going to send you that picture right now. God, these old photos are always creep as fuck. was that I said these old photos are always creepy as fuck yeah they are

I also don't like this guy's mustache okay that's unrelated that's unrelated but I just don't like his mustache totally fair but after that incident Jacqueline Fleming

I look like Will okay honestly yeah but if like he was like a brunette Oh, right. Yeah, we'll have black hair. Yeah. Yeah, so Jacqueline's run. She didn't move nearby. She went 300 miles away to Weldon, California.

That's fair. Which, now let me see how far. I mean, what area of Weldon is. I imagine it's like north. Hey, it might be south. Maybe it's closer to San Diego. Oh, no, she did move a bit more north. but still nowhere near us. I don't think that was 300. Anyway.

But the activity followed her. So lights followed, faces and reflections. At some point, a neighbor saw a withered face in a television screen in her house. And at some point, I don't know why they got into this, but I guess maybe she was tired or desperate. They started holding one of two sessions. And during one of the Ouija sessions, Jacqueline was lifted from her chair and thrown against the wall. And when they finally managed to talk to the entity that whatever was following them, the entity claimed that it was murdered in San Pedro Harbor in the 1930s. Yeah. Yeah.

Other people, other records say that the reason that Jeff was the one that was attacked was because the... The entity said that Jeff looked a lot like his killer. But eventually, after a couple more seances, go ahead. Yeah. I was going to say, what the fuck,

why is this entity so mad at Jacqueline, though? She's just a single mom who works two jobs, who loves for kids and never stops. What the fuck does she do? She didn't do shit. She just moved in. I don't know, to be honest. But yeah, after a few more seances, the activity slowed down.

And that's when Jacqueline reported. That's kind of where the story stops. There was like no movie made. There was no money that she gained anything financially from this investigation. Jacqueline now lives a private life. She doesn't report any more activity. Her children grew up away from the case. and then Barry Taft

still stands by the investigation that they did and then Jeff never recanted what happened to him. Yeah. So that's when, like, this story is so strange because it seems like there was nothing happening and then like something really intense happened. She moved, it followed her,

and then it kind of like faded away. So, yeah, this woman was haunted by something unseen. and quite violent, which most hauntings are rarely violent like this. Yeah. So, yeah, this woman asked for help, and instead of being protected, she was questioned, dismissed, and isolated by the first people. Yeah, so, Milo, thank you for sitting with me through this case. A tale is oldest time, white people not be listening to women.

It's fucked up. even though I don't personally even though I don't personally believe in ghosts oh I thought I were going to say personally don't listen to women even though I don't personally listen to women still though

I'm like that sucks it sucks that she had to go through that and there was like no closure whatsoever things just stopped and she was like oh I guess I'm fine now you just go on I guess I mean it is the sad reality

yeah yeah kind of just there's something I feel like yeah there are just some things in life you know they happen and it's like fuck I just got to keep on going mm-hmm let that be a tale of resilience

to all of you folks out there if you get haunted you got that yeah if you get haunted just don't don't don't if they said to yeah yeah if they try to send you to say no thank you no thank you i also don't know why maybe it was like a go ahead wait go on go on and then i'll say my stupid thing okay i was going to say like maybe it was like i don't know why i generally don't know what happened but it just felt like one of those situations where like she reached out for help and then she got blamed.

Yeah. And like, CPS was called on her. And it was like, you know, most of the time they would dismiss it or just, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. It was a, it was a, it was a, it was a double it and give it to the next person. Oh, gosh.

Someone's going to end up with eight priests. Dude, they, they reproduce me a, what is it, meiosis, myosis. Osmosis, something like that. mitosis, the asexual reproduction. They just keep multiplying. They just keep coming.

Where are these priests coming from? Yeah, I found out weird that they also sent two, because most of the time it's just like one. Yeah. Yeah, you just got to send one. Well, he's his backup. It's his posse. Yeah, but like backup.

They're lovers. You're trying to separate the boyfriends? I don't know. It's just a like house call. They're not like sending them away. They're one of those couples that do everything together, okay? They even got matching clothing. They do.

Because they're priests. They're both priests. Now I'm curious of who they sent. Like, what if it was like a really young one and a really old one? Hmm. It was just to like, hey, come shadow the work that, you know, be a shadow and like learn what they would do. Yeah. Which was a horrible thing to.

learn what to do. Yeah. But anyway. Yeah, that's all for you folks tonight. All for me. For you too, Milo. Thank you for coming on. I learned about poaching and that's something I didn't think I was going to learn.

I think it's something more people should think about. Yeah. Not like, not necessarily like be obsessive. Yeah. But have the knowledge. Yeah. Have the knowledge. you'd be surprised by

how many people you know, I met that just didn't know about any type of like boat regulations which is fair. I don't know who owns a boat. I feel like it's one of those things that if you're going to invest money in a boat because they're not a cheap purchase, you learn about the regulations and things. It's also one of those things that you learn as you go, but you should have at least a base level knowledge.

That's fair. Yeah. That's a good point. Well, thank you, folks. Hope you enjoyed listening to us talk about poaching, um, wizards turning. I hope you hated. I hope you hated every second of it. Yeah.

If you did hate it, send it to your enemies. That'll show them. Oh, yeah. And if you didn't hate it. send it to your friends and family maybe not family because not every family member likes the same thing

send it to your friends to your mutuals your coworkers your acquaintances your lovers that wear same matching outfits your local priest

and if you know any hunters maybe send it to them as well yeah they probably know more about environmentalism than you do. Yeah. They probably will be listening and be like, yeah, I heard about that case or something. But that is all.

Have a good one, folks. Good night. Or day. I don't know when you're listening. Thanks for listening to Chambers of the Occult. For photo, sources, or anything else mentioned during the episode, check out our website at chambers of the occult.com. You'll find everything you need there if you need to find yourself wanting more. You can also follow us on all our socials at Chambers of the Occult and Twitter at COT podcast. If you have any questions, comments, recommendations, person anecdotes, or concerns, let us know. Feel out our contact form on our website, email us at Chambers of the Occult at gmail.com, or leave us a message on our socials. We would love to hear from you.

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