Chambers of the Occult - Episode #1 Shadowy Spirits and Sinister Chefs: Unraveling the Mysteries of the Perron Haunting and Voodoo Chef Killings

Episode Date: January 26, 2024

This week we’re dishing out a double dose of dread! First up, “The Voodoo Killer Chef”: a tantalizing tale where culinary arts meet dark magic. We’ll slice into the story of a charming chef whose delicious dishes held a sinister secret. Was it a pinch of black magic that made her meals to die for?Then, we tiptoe into the terrifying Perron Family Haunting the real-life inspiration behind the hit movie “The Conjuring.” Join us as we explore the creaky corridors of their Rhode Island farmhouse and the paranormal phenomena that left both skeptics and believers in shock.And as a special treat, our bonus segment takes you down under to unravel the tale of an infamous Australian killer. ” This story is not for the faint-hearted!

Chambers of the Occult may contain content that might not be suitable for all listeners. Listener discretion is advised. Welcome to Chambers of the Occult. I'm one of your co-hosts, Jay. Hi, I'm Kai. Hi, I'm Alexis. And we have some stories for you today because we want to share crime and spooky stuff. We're really excited to get started and we hope you enjoy as well.

Yeah, so the way we have it set up, it's that we'll start off with some two stories, paranormal and true crime. And then we have a third bonus story that will be either one. I'll be telling the first story which is true crime.

And then Alexis I'm going to be telling the paranormal yep and then Kai will wrap us up with the mystery story which could be even I think I'm kind of feeling some true crime here for our third story boom hey it's going to be a nice little true crime

paranormal true crime. Okay, so my story, it's of the voodoo killer chef. I don't know if you've ever heard of her. I never have, actually.

Okay, so her name, I don't know. I've never met someone with this name, and I think it's kind of nice, sweet, or just different. Her name is Anjette Lyles. And Anjette was born on August 23, 1925, in Macon, Georgia. Now, Annette was the only daughter growing up with two brothers so family of five parents two brothers and then Annette and her

parents were Jetta Walkins and William Donovan now they owned a produce produce there it goes and she was known for her Produce? Produce? Produce. Produce. There we go. You got it.

And she was known for her pretty appearance and charismatic personality that allowed her to influence others easily. Once again, 1920s, people are going to be all about the physical aspects of people. She was described as pretty and

possessed a magnetic personality that allowed her to easily influence and attract people. Now, before her marriage, Anjette's life was the quiet, typical life for a young woman in the mid-20th century America. in the mid-20th century America. And it all starts on October of 1947 when she married Ben F. Lyles Jr. He was a pilot during World War II. And in the early 1940s, she would quickly discover that he was an alcoholic. So after they got married, she would discover that.

It's like, oh, I guess my husband likes to drink. That's a nice surprise. Because it's the 1940s, and I can't do anything about that. They had a daughter. So they had two daughters, actually. So their first daughter was named Marsha. And I couldn't find an exact date for her birth, but it's an estimate that she was

born in 1949. Now, after they got married, Anjit had become involved with the family business, which was a restaurant that her husband's mom, her mother-in-law, ran.

The restaurant was known as Lyle's Restaurant. And it was well established, and it was a popular spot in the Macon community. Now, the restaurant... What am I saying now?

No. The restaurant was run by Ben, but it belonged to his mom, Julia. Julia is her mother-in-law. Okay. And well, there was a time that Julia needed like surgery. So she had to take some house, some bed rest, and Ben started to run the business. And then Jet was still involved. But during that time, they discovered that Ben wasn't really good at running business you know you put an alcoholic

to run a business and I don't think you're going to get anything good yeah that makes a lot of sense and then what was it oh in May 1951. So a couple of years after two, three years after they had their first daughter, Marsha, they had a second daughter and her name is Carla. OK. And soon after that, Ben, the husband, crashed the family car.

And to make things worse, he sold the family restaurant for $2,500. Wait, sorry, how much? $2,500. Wow. I don't know how much that was in the 1950s. But it feels like not a lot yeah and it also feels kind of like a stab on the back because it's like oh here's the daughter oh crash the car yeah the restaurant okay so they got married 1947 right yeah and then they had their first child 49 yes so she so she marries

him finds out he's an alcoholic and then continues to have a child with him yeah then again think of it like the 1940s i guess you're right like she discovered he was an alcoholic and she's like I guess this is who I married just make do with it I guess yeah I mean she wasn't like she didn't keep quiet or anything like that because like she made it very like obvious that she was in rage

once he sold the restaurant because she got involved in it she actually like helping people as a server and like running the place yeah i mean like something you care about it just like sold off suddenly without your knowledge and then like on top of that for not even that much money either no no i'm sure that if you were like i sold it so we can get a bigger building or something like that. Okay, that might not make his wife super mad. But he's like, I sold our, I crashed our car and I sold our business.

I don't think it was like on the same day or week, but it's still kind of like a back to back. No, yeah. Although maybe he sold it to like buy a new car. I don't know how total the car was. He just shouldn't have crashed the car in the first place really but also an alcoholic crashing a car i don't know if he was driving drunk or not but i should have looked into that he probably was you know knowing him yeah um now i told you she was enraged, but her weapon of choice was actually poison. Whoa. Okay.

It was ant poison. And the ant poison during the 1940s, which is just fun to research little things like this, contained arsenic. Okay. Which is terrible for everything. Yeah. And humans, it should just be called poison rather than poison.

And it's odorless and tasteless. So she could put it in whatever and her husband wouldn't know. She wouldn't know if she had some. But then Ben's health took a turn and then he started to have nosebleeds. Oh. Started with nosebleeds i don't know start with those please i think it all started with those blades and then on time yeah go ahead so yeah so she she did poison him and then he started to get the nosebleeds and

then just continue on further uh yeah i mean that's why i'm telling you the story for it but yeah yeah so uh poisoning people and nosebleeds so it was in 19 january 23rd 1952 which was a year after they had carla uh ben's condition started to worsen and then he was admitted to the hospital okay so they said that his lymphatic and renal system started to shut down and then i'm just thinking why would you poison your husband when you have like a newborn daughter it's valid i'm just saying you have two kids i was like yeah you might want to go with him some other way i don't know if it was like a method to like tame him or control him but it was just like i guess the nosebleeds were not enough i mean i i what is going to say that maybe she just you know wasn't thinking it was a blind rage but like she thought enough to go and get ant poison and then poison him with it.

So, yeah, because it wasn't like a like a crime, like a crime of passion. Yeah, there was no like knife that just like dab, stab, you crash the car and you sold the business. No, it's kind of like I'm gonna get you like this was planned. the car and you sold the business no it's kind of like i'm gonna get you like this was planned um and it was two days after he was admitted uh that ben f lyles jr died and the cost of death was i don't know how to say this i did when i researched it. I think it's called encephalitis. What it is, it's inflammation of the brain that can cause symptoms,

including reduction or alteration in consciousness, headaches, fevers, concussions, oh, confusions, not concussions, confusions, a stiff neck and vomiting.

So he, I don't know if he started to develop all of those symptoms or just some of those symptoms, but eventually he passed away in the hospital. Wow. Yeah. Oh, and then also complications may include seizures,

hallucinations, trouble speaking, memory problems problems and problems with hearing okay yeah so i just looked it up yeah and encephalitis encephalitis there we go that's what you heard yeah yeah i got it oh it's fine um so her husband's out of the way and she has two kids what is she gonna do now um it was actually do yeah so in 1952 it's like the year that her husband died in the hospital um she was 26 year old 26 years old um and she had chosen to be a widow to save money and she moved back to her parents house so uh julia uh and jet's mother-in-law would often visit them to take care of her grandchildren's while and jet was

at work which was nice you know they kept in contact like oh no you know my son died let me go take care of my grandchildren she was just a normal good grandmother and mother in law now it was here that marcia it was 1953 i don't know exactly the exact time but marcia was four years old and carla their newborn was just a couple months old so carla never got to meet her father. Or at least remember him. And it was three years later in

1955 that with the help of a $12,000 bank loan and Jet was able to buy back the restaurant that her ex-husband Ben sold. So it kind of just at least shows

you that she actually did like working at the restaurant. And that she kind of liked having a business or at least running it. Because it was on April 4th, 1955 that she opened the restaurant and it was renamed

Anjet's. Okay. Which I don't know how I feel about people naming restaurants after them because I'm like, maybe they may have your last name so it could be like a generational thing if you want it to be a generational thing. But you

yourself, like just your first name. Yeah, I was like, your daughters are not named either it's not like you can pass it on to her at some point it's gonna get ready or they're gonna be like why is it named in jets it's like oh my mother was named jet that would make sense too but that would be a family thing um now here's where things get interesting because among the customers was her future husband. Oh, husband.

Uh, he was a 26 year old, uh, Texan and his name was Joseph Neal, but, um, they also called him buddy. So to make it easier,

I'm just going to call him buddy. Kind of him buddy. He was a lieutenant in the United States Air Force. And they was like playful talking between Buddy and Anjet. Buddy often said that she was going to marry him. And what do you know? After a few months of dating, they became husband and wife on June 24th, 1955.

And they surprised everyone, friends and family, with hey, we're married. So I don't know how much of a secret thing it was, but they did it in secret okay her past husband dies she just randomly shows up with another husband i mean it was three years after true it wasn't like i've had my eyes on this man. No, it was... Unless she did, but there was no records of that.

Fair, fair. So then it was on November 3rd, 1955, the same year that they got married. Oh, because he was in the United States Air Force. He stayed overnight that time. And it was then that I visited him and spiked his

fluids with ant poison oh more poisoning they got married in june and now it's november of the first year and now there's ant poison involved what the hell yeah and jet what are you doing if you thought the marriage was quick that i think the poison was even quicker oh my god um so she gave him the the poison on November 3rd. Well, around that time. And then the next morning, Buddy, he didn't actually have a nosebleed. He had an aggressive

rash. Oh. And the rash was bleeding blood that could be seen on the sheets. That's gross. That's gross. That's not. Yeah.

Yeah. Happy wife. I guess this is what you need to do. Give her bloody sheets. And then during one of his times, he was being treated, Buddy was being treated. And he told one of the nurses to tie his hands to the head post so he wouldn't be able to scratch himself. Wow. Because the rashes were just so, like, itchy.

Oh, God. And when he was hospitalized, he's like, hey, I need you to tie my hands to the bed post. Otherwise, I'm going to scratch myself. Oh, I don't want to imagine that no that would make things worse i mean i i think it's great that he knew that like hey i don't have that much like willpower to not scratch bedpost no but like having to sit through that like unbearable itchiness. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's a rash that somehow. Yeah. And then you want to scratch all the time.

So it was. The November 13th, same year, 1955. So 10 years after 10 years, 10 days after Annette poisoned him, or gave him the ant poison, that the doctor sent him home to continue with his recovery. And of course, within a few days, he became ill again, because this time, Anjet was leasing his juice and cola with arsenic. My god. So your cola doesn't only have coke it contains arsenic I guess

they're gonna have a good time I don't know and then less than a month later Buddy died wow and just like that another husband hits the grave

or whatever you want to call it yeah what's her problem honestly I don't know about this one I kind of understood the first husband I mean there's other ways to get out of it like divorce but I get car crash the first husband i mean there's other ways to get out of it like divorce but yeah it's like

i get car crash okay alcoholic car crash sell the business yeah i can see someone being mad and wanting to get revenge yeah and you're like miserable in that marriage but like what five months after she got married to her second husband? Yeah. Less than a month after he got released in November. So it was probably still November or early December when he unfortunately passed away.

It doesn't seem from what I figured out researching that this buddy had a problem with alcohol or anything else. Maybe he did, but I just couldn't find it. So I'm just like, and chat.

Why? It was just a guy. It's three months into a marriage. Maybe date them three months before. I don't know. I don't know how long they did it either. Maybe she's just like, I need to get out.

But once again, just like her first husband, Buddy was, his death was attributed to encephalitis. Encephalitis, yeah. Yeah, encephalitis. So first husband and second husband were both told, yep, encephalitis took them so at this point both Marcia and Carla had gotten used to growing up without their dad and very frequently they would also be

helping out to run the restaurant so these are two kids that are like under the age of 10 running like helping run a restaurant i know it's like the 60s chill i don't know when labor laws went in place for children but still i mean also i don't know what they were doing i doubt that they were like cleaning grease or stuff like that yeah but still oh i know yeah i mean i also get like maybe she didn't have enough like a babysitter but i'm just like just let them chill at the restaurant yeah you don't need to really put them to work i mean

i don't know it's the family business and whatnot, but... I mean, at this point, so it was 18 months after they lost their stepfather, which was Buddy. It was May 6, 1957, and Marsha was eight years old and Carla was six. So, I mean, they're kids. Let them be kids. Yeah, yeah. they're kids let them be kids yeah yeah um but also unfortunately it was that day that i told you may 6 that they would end up taking care of their grandmother no no remember the grandmother that came to take care of them when... After the first husband died? Yeah. So she had been admitted to the hospital

and then Jet was apparently tending to her. And she gets poisoned too. Oh, I came in a way. I have no clue. It was actually one day after work

that the kitchen staff saw Anjet prepare buttermilk that she was taking to her mother-in-law in the hospital but what's very interesting I'll bring this up later in the story what's very interesting is that sometimes when she would prepare the buttermilk for her mother-in-law

she would step into the bathroom with buttermilk and then walk out of the back door. Totally nothing suspicious there. Yeah, I mean... Yeah, so... It was on

September 29th, 1957, that Julia, their grandmother, would pass away. What did the, what did they rule as the cause of death? Actually, this one was attributed to natural causes.

Oh, so I don't know if it has anything with the fact that she was an, an older lady or not i mean maybe they probably were just like oh you know she was like i don't know her organs were failing or something maybe because of the poison but they're like oh she's just old yeah i mean i don't know how old she was, which I probably should have looked up. But also, it was a different time. That's true.

1957. And this is where we're getting to Marcia. She was nine years old and she became sick. What? Yep. Nine-year-old Marsha, who helped run the restaurant, got sick. And theories started to circulate that it was because,

um, Marsha, well, uh, theories start to circulate that it was because Marsha resembled, um, her first husband, Ben too much.

Um, and then jet was much more abusive compared to Carla. Poor kid. Yeah. So, Marsha's symptoms were fever and cough. And eventually she was transferred

to Parkview Hospital. And then Anjet Anjet She started to speculate to her restaurant staff about her granddaughter's about her daughter's

demise so she kind of like she was just being like very negative around her staff kind of like her daughter was going to die oh okay rather than being positive or anything she was just like speculating that she was going to die i see yeah um and then jet often brought like her relatives food

from the restaurant to the hospital like she brought like her husband her mother-in-law and like even little marha like food from the restaurant to the hospital so like they could eat not hospital food but then the staff started to grow suspicious rightfully so

and then unfortunately Marsha she started to hallucinate little 90 year, Marsha, she started to hallucinate. Little nine-year-old Marsha started to hallucinate. And she claims that she saw bugs crawl all over her. Oh, God. So if this is a child that's already scared of bugs.

Yeah. Hallucinating seeing them. It doesn't make it better. No, not at all. Yeah. Now, there, um, Anjet did have a housekeeper, or a maid, whatever people

want to call her. Her name was Carmen. And one of the days while she was just doing her, you doing her duties, she came across a bottle for ant poison. Oh, okay. And then the staff at work in the restaurant

were the first to realize what Anjet had done to her family and was now doing to Marcia. Yeah, so. I mean, the staff, like the restaurant staff caught on, but this was also the 1950s.

And unfortunately, the racial segregation law in the date of Georgia, it just made it very difficult for jets cooks and housekeeper to speak up because yeah that's what was yeah like they could have caught her like sooner but like if they were to go to the sheriff like bad things happened to them exactly they wouldn't be believed at all and yeah or like they would

blame it on them yeah yep so like i can only imagine like you realize that your employee is like doing this to like their child and it's not like a child that you've never met that child helped like run the restaurant you know her yeah yeah like you're probably close with her yeah no i mean i assume that like the cooks and like the housekeeper were like close with the kids especially because they didn't have a father right like she's just a sweet little girl yeah um but this is what i do like about about them because despite the risk um the staff send anonymous messages to the coroner and to the family members nearby.

So rather than going to the sheriff, they were like, let's send anonymous messages to the coroner and then to family members nearby. Hopefully one of them would respond or look into a letter.

So actually, the family responded and they alerted the sheriff. However, by the time that authorities got involved, the doctors already started to suspect that Marcia had been poisoned. So,

the doctors kind of caught on as well did they end up doing anything about it well unfortunately it was too late for Marsha she was struggling to breathe and on April 5th 1958

three months before her birthday Marscia passed away imagine being that kid what a terrible way to go nine years old she started to have hallucinations started to have trouble breathing and then passed away and she had no like reason to suspect her mother at all like yeah why would she yeah mom's bringing me food to the hospital you know she cares for me i like my mom you know maybe like and jet was a little bit more abusive to marcia but i i would imagine

that at least when she's in the hospital like you see your mom bringing you food she's like you know like you don't think your mom's gonna kill you no no i feel like it's i mean especially when it comes to children it's never it's not even in their radar no not at all. But like I mentioned, because the doctors had an idea or were imagining that maybe she got poisoned, they took tissue samples from Marcia

and they were sent for testing. Smart. So this is where they were able to confirm the arsenic poisoning. And the police was able to confirm the arsenic poisoning. And the police was able to obtain a search warrant for Anjet for her house.

And they found Poison Ant and from Roll, they found voodoo stuff, like paraphernalia. What? Yep. found voodoo stuff like paraphernalia yep that was like a voodoo person so they found voodoo stuff like paraphernalia like a collection of items candles like potions um yeah yeah so this lady like i said like

people were no knew that like she had candles and stuff but they didn't i don't know if they knew about all the other stuff like yeah dolls and like potions and all that stuff um but search warrant comes up here's some rat poison and a lot of voodoo um so the sheriff said packages found in the home were labeled with good luck powder lucky witchcraft egyptian love powder incense and adam and eve's root and oil Lucky Witchcraft Egyptian Love Powder, Incense, and Adam and Eve's Root and Oil. What? So it wasn't like

she didn't know, just little things here and there, like she had enough to get them confused if they were not labeled. It's not like she had one little bottle and she's like, this is for good luck and that's it. She had a lot that she had to label to not confuse them dude what yeah so it was tuesday may 6 of 1958 that and jet was arrested with four counts of murder. Wow.

Yeah. And Jet's husband, both of them, they were exhumed. And they found that they too had been poisoned. Hmm. Okay. Yeah. So she was charged for all of her murders then. Yeah.

Yeah. And then this is where people start to talk and kind of like gossip starts to spread around because what did she run a restaurant yeah she could be poisoning everybody who ate there oh bingo yes all the customers that ate at the restaurant were wondering if she had like ever tried to poison them too oh my god because i mean it seems like she was just so comfortable with it yeah yeah so like no second thought it was just like a part of her for like the past yeah and it's not like 10 years i feel

like it's a lot different if you were to find out that the person that ran the restaurant you like to eat poisoned their husband but then like you figure out that they poisoned like their first husband their second husband their mother-in-law and their child they're like okay so like who's not off limits. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, they arrested her and her prosecutors were Charles Adams and Hank O'Neill. And it was on Monday, October 6th of 1958

that 32-year-old Anjet was called to trial. And Anjet got close to $50,000 from the death of her family members. And that's $530,000 nowadays. So she got some money. She got close to half a million, yeah. I mean, a bit more than half a million, yeah. Yeah.

Although I do think for, like, four people, I don't think that's... Not that there's an amount for people, but, like, three people, four people getting murdered, that's not worth it. No, definitely not and then the investigation presented examples of Unjet's she forged signatures on documents and the cooks testified that they saw Unjet preparing

the lemonade and buttermilk to take to the hospital but there was times where she was actually kind of careless because they could see what she was doing like putting stuff in it or hiding in the bathroom and then going out the back door also something that just was not thought out and Jet also ordered a coffin

for her daughter before she died oh well that's yeah that's huge yeah it's kind of like you might be able to explain everything else but like how do you explain ordering a coffin for your daughter before she died yeah no she yeah she knew she had this planned out yeah and i don't know i mean i guess i understand that like she resembled her first husband too much but i'm just like you're not getting but still that's your daughter yeah exactly yeah um and then during the trial one of the witnesses said that angette faithfully took food and drink to her loved ones in their final illness at the Macon Hospital,

sometimes over the protest of nurses. But on three occasions, she surely took the items of food into the restroom bathroom before she delivered them. Whoa. So it was multiple times that she was just doing stuff in the bathrooms. This girl's weird. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. And then during the whole trial, like, and Jet said that she wanted to, she said she wanted to do two things if she got the electric chair, she said. She said, I'm going to go see my child Carla before I die. And I'm going to talk plenty about some people I've been protecting in this thing. Protecting? That's what I was like protecting.

There's never clarification on that. Like she never talks about who she's protecting or things like that um but also you don't have a right to go see carla like that's your only surviving child i do not trust you around that child right like remove her from everyone close to her at this point another of the witnesses was a nurse, Miss Jacqueline. And she testified that two weeks after Marsha died and Jet told her over the phone that she was upset because a neighbor's child had told the maid, Carmen, that and Jet's younger daughter, Carla, was going to take ant poison too, so she could go to heaven to be with Marsha. What the fuck?

Yeah. Which makes me think it's like, how did Carla know it was ant poison? Did Carla know the entire time? I don't know. I mean, kids are very observant as well. That's true. Maybe she saw the ant poison was just like oh it's the ant poison whatever yeah but then she realized later on i i don't know or maybe just because it was poison she's like i'm gonna take some too so i can go

see my sister marcia in heaven which is actually like super sad though i mean it kind of just shows you how close the girls were to each other because like with no like father figure like they just had each other to rely on and they had to um and then this is a quote. Rosemary Reynolds, Negro cook in Anjet's restaurant, told the jury that she saw Anjet fix buttermilk on two occasions. For her mother-in-law, Julia, and on one occasion, lemonade for her nine-year-old daughter Marsha. And both of them had, you know, both of who and Jet had been

charged with poisoning. Yeah. So the fact that they were able to actually kind of like take into account the word of like a black person during that time was, I found I was like, good. Take their word. Because they saw it. Yeah.

And this is in Georgia, right? Yeah. Especially for Georgia back during that time. Yeah. I don't know why they didn't take their word, but I'm just glad they did. People have seen this.

So on all three times, the witness testified that Anjet took the glasses containing beverages into the restroom before she left through the back door and then she went to the hospital so it wasn't just like one or two cooks that saw her doing that like she was careless when she did it and i don't know if it was careless because she didn't care or careless because she's like, Oh, you know,

segregation laws. Like they can't say anything. Like no matter what they see me do. Yeah. Or like they, you know, there's no possible way they could, you know,

they wouldn't ever be believed over me or anything like that. Yeah, exactly. They're like something bad's going to happen to them if they like talk to the sheriff or something um but it was on a monday october 13th that the jury took just under two hours to deliberate and and jet was found guilty and she was sentenced to the to the death penalty by electric chair. Now, this was a big deal, though, since Georgia had never executed a white woman. Oh.

Yeah. And do you want to know her reply? Like, her response to the electric chair? What? I didn't kill those four people. Somebody else did. I didn't say anything about people. Somebody else did. I didn't say anything about it at the time of the trial because I was protecting somebody.

But Sheriff Jim Wood knows about it. And I hope he will find out the truth. I wouldn't walk into that room and die with my lie on my lips for anything in this world. What? Who is she protecting? There's no, like, response whatsoever. It's kind of like she was looking for an escape code,

and she's like, maybe this will buy me time? Yeah, but, like, at at that point she already was sentenced to death yeah and then she was like i didn't anything you want to say it's like i didn't kill those four people and it's like well you should have said that during the trial and she's like i couldn't because i'm protecting the sheriff not protecting the sheriff yeah you need to protect yourself. Yeah, you got one girl left. If you really want to go see her, like, prove your innocence. But that's hard in this case

because it all points to her poisoning people. And because she was, you know, going to be electrocuted, like, be put in the electric chair, the defense lawyers asked the government to appoint a sanity commission. And they ended up examining NJET and the records and determined that she was insane. Yeah, I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised. So the government put her death sentence on hold.

And for as long as she would be considered insane, she wouldn't be executed under court law. See, now this is where she could have, you know, revealed that information. Yeah, so like, even though that, yes, yes. Because even though that she was sentenced, like, like no she's just insane so you know she was still she was sent to the central state hospital and they had a women's facility but also a facility for the criminally insane so that's where she would spend her time okay yeah and on a newspaper article she said i'm real happy and pleased that god saw fit to spare my life

yep i'm starting to believe the insane thing more yeah and then she also said it might be my opportunity to do some religious work in milchville state hospital i hate for people to say i'm crazy but at least my child can live this down and she wouldn't live it down if i went to the electric chair. Yeah, I don't know what the child would prefer. A dead mother or a mother in the crazy loony bin. I mean, I don't know if it would really even matter i'm sure her kids i'm sure like

carla like hated her for killing everyone close to her yeah i mean growing up without like a father and then like her father-in-law like a father figure finally her life also dying and then the mother-in-law like her grandmother that she's like grandma takes care of us and then learning that your mom killed all of them sister yeah I mean I think it would make her question whether she was next

oh yeah because honestly like it's just a checklist at this point um but she was she served her sentence um It's just a checklist at this point. But she served her sentence, and she died in 1970s, and she was never found sane. Wow. So she just spent her time there and leaving her only daughter, her only surviving daughter, Carla. and leaving her only daughter, her only surviving daughter, Carla.

Now, there's something very interesting that I actually found out today. Oh. What is it? It was in 1958, the same year that she was convicted, the case was that they arrested her, that they took her to court all that year. It was in 1958 that Carla was convicted, the case was that they arrested her, that they took her to court, all that year. It was in 1958

that Carla Lyles disappeared. Her daughter disappeared? Yep, Carla. Yeah. So, and Jed claimed that Carla had been sent to live with her grandparents in Florida, but no one, like, ever saw or heard from Carla again.

Dude, what? Yep. Anjet told the police that she had taken Carla to Florida herself. But how would she have found the time to take her to Florida? This was probably like before they like, like arrested her. Like she probably knew that the thing was collapsing. Like her. Oh,

okay. Um, and then later change her story. Oh yeah. so after that he said that she left carla with a name with a man named joe woodward who had promised to take her to florida i mean i it's like how can i believe her because she just killed everyone else, but also in a way like I kind of want to believe her because like, why would she lie about that if she's already essentially convicted? Yeah, well, I mean, she would have won like another like charge against her. That's true.

Yeah, so it was, yeah, so that was in 1958. And, like, there was nowhere, like, no, like, information of, like, her actual whereabouts. Like, it all remained a mystery. So, like, the trial was over, and she was convicted. She was declared insane. And, like, no one knew, one knew where her daughter Carla was. Did authorities ever try to track down her grandparents or anything like that? They had no luck about that.

Like, nothing. So she died in 1970. She died in 1970, and she was never found sane. She died in 1970. Like, she died in 1970. And she was never found sane. It wasn't until 40 years later, in 2011, that a woman named Jennifer Emil came forward claiming to be Carla Lyles. What? So it was like she disappeared in 1958 and in 2011, like she reappeared as a

full-on girl. That's insane. Yeah. In 1958, she would have been like... That was 53 years. Yeah. She was like a dead end, like a missing child, honestly, because she disappeared as a child unsolved for 58 years before...

And you never hear this stuff. It's like they disappear like they're never found. But in like. 2011. She reappeared. And it's like hey. I'm Carla Lyles. Yeah.

So she had been adopted. She had been adopted in Florida. So somehow she made it to Florida. She had been adopted by a couple in Florida. And she had recently discovered her true identity in 2011. So it's not like she was in hiding or anything.

Her adoptive parents didn't tell her anything. But she did she not know about all of the murders and everything then i understand i don't know if it was like a suppressed memory and she just kind of like didn't know about it and then so she's like started this new life and just moved on from her past type of thing yes she. She somehow ended in Florida. We don't know if the man,

Joe Woodward took her to Florida or if a jet to Florida, but she somehow ended up in Florida. Okay. And she was adopted by a couple. Um, and her name was originally like the couple named her, Melanie Suzanne Ridger. But she was born in Macon, Georgia in 1954. And her adoption was finalized in 1958, the same year that like, everything went down.

Yeah, that she disappeared and everything. Yeah, so that same year, everything was done. So not much is known after, like, about Carla or, like, Jennifer. Yeah. Not much is known, but what is known kind of lines up. Yeah. So that's her. And she declined to speak to the public about to the public about her past but we don't know if she just blacked it out or she just decided to forget about that chapter in

her life but be one or the other yeah wow also i feel like if you're like an eight-year-old and they tell you her name is carla but you're getting adopted and your name is going to be Jennifer for the next 53 years. No, exactly. It's Jennifer. I feel like at that point you're like, well, maybe I was. Especially if you're already like a kind of traumatized kid, like from growing up in that family where like your dad died and your, you know, your stepdad and everything like that. Yeah. So, yeah. your dad died and your you know your stepdad and everything like that yeah um so yeah that's the story of the voodoo killer chef that's such a first of all that name is just i honestly like i was like who does, who do I tell the story of?

And I was like, voodoo killer chef. I was like, that has like a ring to it. But also it's like, what are you talking about? I hate that it has a ring to it because it's like a serial killer. But yeah. Honestly, like it was just like a checklist. I'm glad Carla survived or Jennifer. But is she still alive? I imagine she's she's passed yeah i mean she came out in 2011 she was 53 on 2011 okay so she could easily still be

alive today i mean she still has the chance to speak up if she wanted to like talk to the public about her past but so far she's chosen to stay quiet. I don't blame her. I did not try to find her. I did not try to reach out. You live your life, your life. Yeah.

You don't have to be reminded of all of this. No. Plus also, I'm sure that at this point she, it's a blur to her. I mean, my eight year old self, I feel like everything's a blur to her mm-hmm I mean my eight-year-old self I feel like everything's a blur oh yeah like I don't think I remember anything from being a kid so yeah so that's your true crime for today any any final questions, final thoughts? Alexis, anything you want to add?

Looks like she fell asleep. Honestly, I would not be surprised. Did you fall asleep? Let's figure it out. If not, it's fine. Thank you for listening to Chambers of the Occult. Thank you. Thanks for joining us for our very first episode.

We can't hear you. No, we cannot hear you, Alexis. Were you muted? No way. Have you been speaking the entire time? Oh, she's gone. Oh, okay. I really hope she

hasn't been speaking the entire, like, almost hour we've been here. I was curious about her. I'm like, I hear you, but I don't hear you. Hello? Hello? Can you hear me? Yes, we can hear you. I said good story.

Oh, okay, cool. But, like, were you trying to comment like during the story no oh before then yeah i thought i thought you guys heard me no no we didn't hear you this entire time oh i didn't really say much so okay yeah we'll work on everything for our next episode. Yeah. I'll make sure you're not muted. Yeah. But I enjoyed that. Thanks, Jay. Yeah. I did too.

And now we're sponsored. No one. We have no sponsors. Please listen. Sponsors, please. Yes. Now we have... Can Josh Hutcherson sponsor us? What did he...

Just Josh Hutcherson? Just Josh Hutcherson. Can you stop being obsessed with Josh Hutcherson? I'm not. I can't imagine. It would be so silly and funny and also stupid but would want it

just like a word from our sponsor and then you just hear Hi, I'm Josh Hutcherson That's what I'm saying That's it Alright, our new goal next episode we're getting Josh Hutcherson

Let's say that I'll text him We're getting Josh out your suit. I'll text him. We're cool. Okay, okay. Do you want to start with your story now? Mine? I don't have that much. It's okay.

I have something. I don't know. Okay, so I was wrong in the placement of it. Not really in Connecticut. It's in Rhode Island. Rhode Island, Harrisville is where it's at. Okay, you're telling us that, but what are you telling to the listeners?

What are you telling them? Oh, yeah. My fault. Wait, what am I saying? The title of the story. What do you want to call that that story or what is it known as the the conjuring story we'll go with that okay um this is the conjuring story okay okay i haven't watched it recently, so I'm in. It's basically The First Conjuring is where it's based off of. The First Conjuring movie, we'll say.

We'll reference that. The Perrin family. So the Perrin family, Carolyn, the mother, Roger, the father, their five daughters, Andrea, Nancy, Christine, Cindy, and April. April being the youngest. Yeah. As well as their dog, Sadie. They moved to the Harrisville Farmhouse, we'll call it, in 1971 in Rhode Island. Harrisville, if you need to be specific.

Actually, a little fun fact I found out today. Oh. Andrea Perrin, one of the daughters, actually wrote two books about their experience. Do you have the names of the books, actually wrote two books about their experience. Do you have the names of the books? Yes, I do. House of Darkness and House of Light. Book club suggestion? Yeah.

Yeah, honestly, yeah, I'd read that. Depending on how many pages. But they were believed to be haunted by a spirit whom ed and lorraine warren declared as bath shiva sherman so i'm gonna get ed and lorraine are paranormal investigators and demonologists. Thank you. Very, very popular in the spiritual community. So maybe get your game up. But Bathsheba.

Well, I'm not a medium. I'm going to talk a little bit about her. You got to meet them. I want to go to the Conjuring House, the real one. Sounds cool. I thought the museum closed down during the pandemic the museum the museum ed and lorraine warren's museum where they have all their artifacts that closed down permanently um but i do believe the conjuring house itself in rhode island is still open for

yeah yeah yeah they actually do what are they called like overnight stays and stuff like that oh that's really cool that's we gotta do that wait yeah because i recently not recently like last year that's not so far away hi by the way guys happy new year um i recently my sister had me watch or at least part of it or most of it um some youtuber going to like The Conjuring House. Yeah, but that's all. Did you watch Sam and Crosby? I think that's the one it was. Sam and Colby.

Yeah, that's what I said. Yeah, totally. Anyways, I'm going to tell you guys a little bit about Bathsheba. Okay. So she was originally born as Bathsheba Thayer, but became Sherman when she married Judson. Yeah, Judson Sherman. But Bathsheba was originally born in 1812 in Rhode Island. And she married Judson Mario Day in Connecticut, March 10th in 1844. Did you say Mario Day?

Yeah, Mario Day. Like Super Mario Woohoo? March 10th. Like Super Mario, like woohoo. Yeah, like, it's a mean day. March 10th Like Super Mario Yeah What? You guys not know? No Like M-A-R

And then 10 it looks like Mario Oh Okay yeah Okay Okay March 10th of 1844 in Connecticut, actually, they got married. I can even tell you who married them. Yes.

Cool. Vernon Stiles. Not like Harry Stiles, but like Julia Stiles. Unfortunate. There's no relation? No relation. I'm actually an ordained minister minister so if anyone needs uh someone to marry them are you actually um yeah i um got my certificate by like a five minute online quiz

eight years ago so you were like a teenager just wanted to get people married well you can't actually do it until you're 18 so like i you know had to wait like five years or something but you're like i just want to be ready for it besides the point yeah yeah okay you guys are weird anyways i'm not the one that got ordained ordained at like 11 hey facts you you you take back that attitude when you want to get married one day no i'm sure i'm knowing that i'm probably gonna come to you now anyways Bathsheba yeah Bathsheba and Judson they had a son his name uh was Herbert L Sherman

uh in 1849 when Bathsheba like turned around 37 and at the time or there's a possibility that batsheba and judson had other children as well the suspicion is like three but like with each other or with other people with each other yeah with each other um but like they never survived past the age of seven there's no record that can confirm though it's just all speculation suspicions i guess yes um there's only one photo that surfaced of bath shiva and it was actually taken in 1885 it must have been either like at least a month or maybe two months before she died um and it's taken in front of what was called the Arnold estate but the Perron family's house is what it's known as and so that's the name it had before yes arnold estate is what it's called before and there was a lot of like legends and folklore going on around

batshia but during that time that she was a witch there's been a lot of instances where she has known to have children in her care and they've mysteriously died there's been one that surfaced the most it was of an infant who um got the their examination and they found at the base of the child's skull was seemed to be a wound from uh and someone impaling them with a large stone oh yeah it was like um it wasn't an accident no no couldn't have been like somebody like a healthy child no exactly the last person who like took care of that child was basheba and so there's a lot of people saying that she would use children as a sacrifice or offering to the devil. But whether or not that's true, it still remains a mystery. You know, there's never been anything to confirm nor deny that.

Bathsheba died May 25th, 1885. And there's a lot of people saying that when she died, her body, and I quote, literally turned into stone. But again, that's all legends. Because there was no statue found. Exactly. You're picking up what I'm putting down. Anyways.

So she died uh apparently the parent family did a lot of more research on the house as well and found out that there had been at least a dozen other people that had killed themselves on their on that property or have had a tragic death of some sort. The first instance that the parent family really had was just hearing voices and noticing things that were open and closing on their own. Their dog, Sadie, would be barking at what would seem to be nothing for a period of time, a long period of time. But, of course, they can't see what she's barking at, so they don't know. But there was one instance where Carolyn had had an incident where she felt a sharp pain on her calf,

and it looked to be like a wound that you would get if you would be impaled by a large sewing needle so there was that connection um between that and the child that had passed away and so because of that yes so because of that um edmund moraine war, the paranormal investigators, suggested that it was Bathsheba in their house haunting them. Oh. Yeah. So the Conjuring movie itself, I believe, released in 2013, maybe, which is crazy to think about. Crazy to think about.

Yeah, 2013. And Andrea Perrin, who wrote the books House of Darkness and House of Light, she described the movie as informative. It's beautifully put together, but there's a lot more to the story so what we saw from the conjuring movie itself was just a little snippet of it it wasn't even like the whole shebang which honestly is a little bit crazy to think about how long did they live in the house do you know that's? That's a good question. I do not know the answer to that question.

Because I was going to be like, they could have lived there for like, you know, like three, four or five years. But the movie is like two hours long. That's true. You can't convey two years. They lived in there for 10 years. Ah. Yes. So they describe it as ten long years, actually.

I think ten is already long. Yeah, you can't put ten years into a two-hour movie. No. So it's valid. Yeah. So Andrea actually touched on the exorcism that they had in the movie. Do you guys remember that? Have you guys seen the Conjuring movie? Yeah. It's been a while

since I've seen it, but yeah. Well, there's an exorcism I believe towards the end of the movie. They do it, they perform it on Carolyn, the mother. Yeah. But Andrea actually said that there was no exorcism involved she said that night yeah she

said that night the um warrens had brought over a medium as well as themselves and the medium was trying to conjure this spirit to kind of they were performing a seance. Essentially, they were performing a seance and it went awry. And Carolyn was then attacked by the spirit that this medium was trying to reach out to. So, yeah, yeah, Not too exciting. I don't really want to be attacked in my house, but that's it. Yeah, no, definitely not.

But I thought that was kind of interesting how they decided to switch it around. Yeah, like they replaced a seance with an exorcism. Yeah. Which is completely different. Yeah.

Very, very different. But Andrea did say in the book, from what I know of, that her and her family did respect spirits. Like, they had a respect for spirits of any kind.

Okay. So, I guess they had living in the house before where they had spirits in as well um she kind of just said it was their house first which is yeah true right if i'm moving into a house with a bunch of spirits i'll be like that's all you that's not i'm sorry's not, I'm sorry. I don't mean to invade your space. I mean, it depends on the spirits, but. Yeah. I mean, well, from what I know of, there's been a lot of tragic deaths in this, like, house, in this property.

Yeah, it seems like there were quite a few before even they moved in. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, there were a lot of issues, for sure, before they even moved in. It's just, I'm assuming it all amplified when they were in. Yes. There were a lot of issues for sure. Before they even moved in. I'm assuming it all amplified. When they were living on there. Which is insane to think about. They would hear doors slam.

Beds shaking. Apparitions wandered by. From time to time. And. It was a new home. So they didn't actually think much of it for a while it was really normal for them see this is the stuff i want to say until you say out loud and then i'm like maybe not i don't know okay that is like one of my that was one of my biggest fears when i was younger sorry to get off topic but it's still on topic um when i was younger i would watch all those like shows talking about like people moving

into new houses and having paranormal experiences and shit it's so bad i forgot the name though yeah no no no yeah and and i was like i don't i don't want to i don't want to move into a new house and experience that I thought that was like just like a guarantee again I was like younger so I was like so scared of the thought of moving out of my apartment for that I was just like you know I'm super the one I have here fair enough though

I mean that kind of makes sense right I don't know. It does. Anyways. So, I didn't rain more in Paranormal Investigators. So, this took place

in the 1970s. They did a little paranormal investigation on their home. It got the attention of Hollywood, of course. And Ed and Lorraine actually worked with the producers and the directors for The Conjuring movie as well. So they have some influence on it. Yeah, they had a lot of influence from what I've heard as well as the Perrin family.

So... Good. Yeah. That's really good. Yeah. At least they didn't make anything up. You know what I'm saying? Well, not for the exorcism part, but like, you know... We don't talk about that. That's okay.

We had a seance. An exorcism? A seance. Same thing. I feel like that's how um we had a stance an exorcism a seance same thing i feel like that's how the conversation went honestly i wonder okay i wonder what the seance would have like looked like right like what what they would have done you know yeah like did they even know what they were doing i don't know yeah that's that's that's because I don't know. I, I guess I would have. Yeah, I was going to say, I would assume that they would have. Filed the lead of the medium they hired or the medium they brought. Yeah. Yeah. It seems like the medium really took charge when they were over at their house, especially considering that they suggested to perform that seance, from what I could see. the medium that did everything. But it's kind of crazy. And Andrea, which is, again, the author of

the books that I was telling you about, she's the one that's most open to talking about the experiences. Christine, however, one of the sisters, she is probably the one that is most reluctant on giving any of that information out. Seems like she might have gotten a lot of... Yeah. The brunt of it. Don't blame them.

Yeah. Yeah. The mother, after their seance had been... Or during the seance, actually, when she got attacked, she was actually picked up and thrown into another room. Oh. Yeah, her body slammed to the ground. And at that point, the Warrens had already believed that Carolyn was possessed. And so.

I can see why they would jump to that conclusion. Yeah, for sure. It's not just an average Tuesday where, you know, she flings herself into another room. Oh, my God, I can't imagine that. Just like being in my house and then like trying to figure out what's going on and then just being picked up and thrown across the room the physical impact that they would have had yo they are dancing on the wall for sure i mean it just happened in the movie as well.

You could see it. I believe it might have been with Carolina. I think it may have been with one of the daughters in the movie. And if you look to your right, an original tent. We got to go to the conjuring house. We really do. But the family, the parent family uh figured that the medium that they had brought kind of just opened up this door that they couldn't close and so So Carolyn, I believe, was unconscious for a while. And when she woke up, she was drained.

Like you could see it in her face that she was drained of all the energy, anything that she had at that time and in immense pain. So kind of like what they actually look in the movies, like just like pale, like sweaty maybe? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's That's heavy.

I don't know. That's scary. In your own household too. No, yeah, that's what I think about household too no yeah that's what that's what like i i think about it like this family this just family that moved into this new house wanted to start somewhat of a new life and they can't even live peacefully in their home because of the things that are happening to them. Yeah. Yeah. Just not the one they wanted. Yeah.

True. It's kind of like careful what you wish for. I guess you got to be more specific when you say you want a new life. A new happy life, I should have said. There we go. And then stuffed animals would be the ones getting thrown around. Speaking of, like, animals, sort of, how are those haunted dolls you have?

Um, nothing. Animals? They're still there. Like, they haven't moved. I haven't really taken, like, an EMF next to them. them i kind of wanted to do like a the spirit box but then like i was like no i'm by myself i was like maybe not yeah maybe save that for uh some other time but then like i also have like the urge to like take them in my car and drive them around. But then I'm like, no.

Because what if I get in a car accident because of them? Yeah, probably should leave them in the room. So it's kind of like, I feel like if I do want to take them somewhere, I got to ship them. Ship them? But then they're going make like the delivery driver crash not my problem oh damn I mean

they didn't crash the vehicle on their way here either so that's true well like they're attached to you now you know I mean the only like the only thing that is said in the description is that they like to dance at night what have you taken them dancing yet no i had one time where actually i was watching like a movie like on disney and i was like oh they might like this so then i like repositioned them to look at the movie and then like i fell asleep and then i had a horrible nightmare and i was like

i don't know if they like the movie texted me yeah i think so yeah i think if you just give him a good jamming at night honestly i think i have like white noises playing in my room 24-7, like the ocean. I'm sure they enjoy that. Really? It keeps them calm. Yeah. It's very low volume.

You play some K-pop for them. You play some Twice for them. They're like some Victorian children that died and are haunting these dolls. And they're like, what the hell is this? What are we listening to? No, exactly. You gotta get them up to speed. You know what?

Eventually they'll be up to speed. They have all eternity. True. I mean, also, how up to speed can they be that they have all eternity? That's true. What if they just, like, are lazy and don't want to learn anything?

Yeah, what if it's, like, an old person that's, like, you can't teach them new tricks, and they're like, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh. But didn't it say what kind of, or did it, in the description, what did it describe as the doll? That they like to dance? When you got it. What did it describe as the doll? That they like to dance. When you got it. That's it? There wasn't much. I liked the little girl. No, there was no names.

It's two of them. Okay. That's it. Oh, that's it? Yeah. Okay. So keep going with your story. I'll see if I can find the description.

Oh, yeah. I've had them for months, and nothing has happened so far. Major. Major. But some minor. Like The Conjuring House. That's major. The Conjuring House is very major.

No dolls required. Okay, Bathsheba is honestly kind of a scary name. it kind of is as far as names go like i don't know it literally sounds like the name of like a demon yeah so yeah but she was an actual living person that's crazy imagine being named bath she didn't have no seriously sorry please don't kill no you're fine no no i'm apologizing to bath sheba oh oh yeah i'm sorry all right please please don't hurt me okay okay i'm gonna cut you off off. Before you dig a deeper hole. Actually, Bathsheba

was charged with manslaughter of a baby. Yeah, after that infant had been discovered to have an impale thing at the base of their skull. Yeah.

Yeah. But the Warrens thing the fact the base of their skull yeah yeah but the the warrens knew a little bit about about bathsheba and kind of just declared it was her i'm sure there's more to this story when it comes to that on maybe Lorraine's end, but as to how they knew. But anyways, the seance didn't go too well. But after the seance, nothing major really happened in the home. No really major supernatural experiences. Or like just the big stuff? Well, everything stopped or just the big stuff?

Well, the parents described it as lived pretty happily most of the time. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So from what it seems like, some minor things may have happened sporadically throughout their stay there, but it didn't seem like it was as intense as it was before. So the seance, if anything, may have actually altered their life for the better. Sounds like it. Which is really good.

It worked out. It's a win-win for everyone. The medium doesn't look bad. Probably gets more customer service reviews. It's a win-win for the living. I don't think none of the dead win anything. I was talking about the medium

the medium was living yeah yeah yeah but i'm like i don't think the spirits get a win there no maybe not actually well maybe i don't know they were described to be like benevolent spirits. So maybe not. Yeah. There were like loud noises that there would be during that time. But again, nothing really. Small or I mean, too big is all really small. Which was nice before then

apparently sorry this is all over the place April the youngest April the youngest daughter she made a friend oh I do remember this part from the movie

I don't know how accurate it was but go ahead oliver richardson so kind of accurate in my eyes um oliver richardson was her friend and he was another spirit that had passed away in the home. But apparently that went on after the seance as well. So that was kind of like a big thing, but not really. The parent family kind of, for the most part, got used to it. Which is weird to say. Like, hey, my daughter's talking to this kid in her closet we get used to it though although

the parents think it was something paranormal or did they think it was just an imaginary friend well assuming that this oliver richardson is an actual person that died it probably just a spirit. Yeah, but did the parents think it was a spirit or did the parents think, oh, she just has an imaginary friend? At first, they thought it was an imaginary friend. Oh, at first. Oh, again. Yes.

But then they were like, oh, this is an actual kid that she's talking to. Yeah. Yeah. I tried doing research on this Oliver Richardson, but I can't dig up anything on this kid. Was it dead end? It was a dead end. No pun intended? Oh, my god.

I can't believe you just did that. Oh gosh. You set it up for me. I did. You put it down, I picked it up. Oh wow. That's true. I put it down, you picked it up.

There was like little sightings that they would have too, which is kind of big to me, but I guess small to them. Considering what they've been through, I guess it is small. Not fair, yeah. Yeah, but they would like see Women dressed in like 17th century attire Yeah They would see like

Men in the house Seated in the dining room Things like that Which is also really weird They said they considered The house to be a portal But Yeah they said And I quote I always consider the house to be a portal. I've heard that before.

Yeah, they said, and I quote, I always consider the house a portal, but not only a portal to the past, but to the future. I don't like that. Yeah, which is really interesting. I've never heard of portals like that, I guess. I don't know. But the book, the book writing process for Andrea was very long. It took the family, really, as well as herself, 30 years to be able to share their story. Yeah. You know what? I believe it believe it though because there's so many different perspectives

i kind of want you read the book literally what we're talking about right now yes no would you read the book he just said you can you are literally in the book club yeah no i'd read the book like we can we can create our own little book club the three of us our podcast yeah we yeah we read the books for the podcast yes exactly but not all three of us read them just one of us and then we share what we read so technically it's kind of like cheating because we're getting two free books that we don't have

to read but if i'm the one that's reading the, I'm probably going to give you guys notes on it. I'm going to be real. Because I'm horrible at explaining things. Well, no, you take the notes yourself and then you can explain it. That's the point. I could, yeah. That is the point.

Yeah, I'll do that. If we decide to do that okay anyway we'll discuss it yeah yeah yeah yeah um anyways um she andrea kind of described as writing the book as like the more she talks about it, the more clarity it brings to her, which is good. So although it was a very hard thing for her to do, she. It got easier with time, I guess. Or every time she did. But. 1980 is when they moved out of the house.

And when did they move in? 1971. Oh, they were there for nine years. Nine years, yeah. Grinding on ten. Oh, that's a lot for a haunting. Yeah. Yeah. I would not let it go on

that long april the youngest was five when she was dead yeah so i don't know she grew up just like being terrorized i don't know exactly yeah but it's like a huge part of their lives now like yeah yeah i don't think they can ever like deny that it happened no for sure yeah um actually there was one thing that i read saying um the mother once said we left the farm but it will never leave us so i i think that just also goes to show like how they feel yeah how like i don't know it's it's it's never gonna leave them yeah how she said. And that's really crazy to think about. You can take the farmer out of the farm, but you can't take the farm out of the farmer. Words to live by.

Yeah. I know there's like a different saying when it comes to like cities and things like that, but you said farm and that's the only thing that popped in my head. No, yeah. They lived in a farmhouse. Nine years. You got it there. and that's the only thing that popped in my head you know yeah they lived in a farmhouse so nine years

um but it brought them clarity i guess in a way living in there and having those experiences it taught them a lot about life death and the afterlife as well is what I've heard so overall it wasn't a well it was a horrible experience of course but

getting thrown across a room it wasn't a horrible experience I wasn't going to say it wasn't a horrible experience but it wasn't something that affected them in the long run if that makes sense they don't they still live their life that's interesting they're still good like great for them but also it's like how do you just move on from that exactly yeah i would assume it's because they have each other to rely on that's true i mean because if it was just like a single or a smaller like family that went through it yeah like i could see them being scarred for life

but it was how many in the family seven Seven? Plus the dog? Yeah. Well, yeah, seven and the dog, yeah. Yeah, I mean, so they had each other to rely on. And, like, I don't know, they were made out to be, like, insane or crazy or, like, gaslight themselves out of it. Yeah. Yeah, and they had the validation from each other.

Yeah. Yeah. I got to read the books. I can get to know a little bit more about it. I know the director for Conjuring read the books as well. So he kind of. That's good though. Yeah.

As he should have. Mm hmm. But that's really all I have for The Conjuring well thanks thank you honestly it was a really nice refresher and it's nice to know that

the movie was mostly accurate yeah actually yeah I think that's a really good thing like i i i know movies can't capture everything because of you know if it did it probably would have been like a five six hour long movie i don't know but like part two yeah yeah yeah that's true yeah but like the the fact that they managed to put all that in there and still be able to tell their story in a way that it did impact

people, that's pretty good. You know? Like, she... Like, Andrea had said it was beautifully done. So I do like that. Good. Yeah. I wonder, like, how much input they had with the movie, though.

Same. It seems like a decent amount if they got it that accurate, I guess. True. Let's see. Hollywood still cared. I mean, it wasn't that long

ago either way. Maybe they still care, I just don't know. Yeah. I don't know. Hollywood's running out of ideas. Yeah, they're like, you know what, let's try it your way. There's so many, like,

random movies that are coming out now. It's kind of funny. Yeah. Yeah. There's kind of funny. There's the Beekeeper with Jason Statham. I knew you were going to bring it up. I knew you were going to bring it up. It's Josh Hutcherson.

I love Josh. I mean, he's a good actor. Do you follow him on social media? No. Why was there a pause? 1997. You definitely follow him. I do.

Oh my god. I found out he's into so many different music styles that I like too. If you guys want to follow him, jhutch1992, putting it out there. Oh my god. Anyways, I just think he's a cool guy. I thought he was supposed to sponsor us

and now you're sponsoring him. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, how is he going to return the favor? You know what I'm saying? Everyone tag him him get his attention i don't know he's okay he's an all right okay anyways is that a wrap is that a wrap for you for your wrap? For you. For your story. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm done.

Okay. Did you wrap it up? Um, thanks for listening. Okay. We still have one more story. Yeah, I know. Thanks for listening to my story. It sounded like you were saying goodbye. No.

I was trying to transition into the next story. It sounded like you were saying goodbye. No. I was trying to transition into the next story. Oh. Hello? Hello? We'll transition eventually. What do you have to tell us, Cain? You guys went way more into detail than i thought we were gonna go

i put everything in a word document and i like it's seven pages uh it's double spaced i think that's what it's called is it double spaced yeah yeah that's pretty solid I love double spaced so probably I don't know anyway I don't know where I'm going I just wrote it down see the thing is in my case there's actually not that much documentation

of it it is In my case, there's actually not that much documentation of it. It is about an Australian... It's about an Australian... Wait, do that again? No, stop. That was really good. Was it? Was it really?

It was actually kind of good, yeah. I was just saying it for you. I was telling the story for you with my Australian accent. Whoa! You know what? We could be falling in love with your Australian accent

and someone from Australia is going to be like, that's so off. You should have, you should have started this podcast, like introduce yourself with that accent. No, I got to do Romanian accent.

What even is a Romanian accent? Oh my God. You disgust me. You have to do more research on accents because the Romanian accent is beautiful and I can't do it. I can't do it yet. can't do it. Yet. Yet. Exactly. Thank you, Jay.

That's amazing. Anyways, Australian serial killer. Australian. So his name is Paul Stephen Hay. He is perhaps Australia's most known, most brutal serial killer that they've ever had.

But there's not lots of documentation? Yeah, but without lots of documentation of his early life, at least. Oh, okay. Yes. So he doesn't really have too much backstory. So he's a serial killer. He, within a span of about, I don't know, a little under 15 years or so, he murdered seven victims. So he was born September 5th, 1957. And so he was around like 20, 21 when sort of like his first kind of crimes did start.

So yeah, he was actually raised only by his mother until he was three months old. And then after that, he got adopted where he lived in a home for about 14 years. Now, while he was growing up, his dad tried to contact him, but very barely. It did not lead to any relationships. His mom also tried to contact him, but yeah, nothing happened again. Yeah. So, yeah, he was raised as an only child, no siblings. And so basically, while he was being raised, he was not really a social kid, which is not surprising.

Yeah. Yeah. So he was raised in like a youth training center. And this didn't really serve him very much. He had lots of academic, social problems in his time, got disciplined a lot when he was younger. So yeah, did 14 years of schooling, and then in 1978 is when he first sort of started his killings. How old was he during that time? During what time? When he started.

Yeah, so he was about 20, 21 when he sort of started his killings. Okay. Now. Let's see. Where do I start? So, for all of his killings, he actually was sentenced to life imprisonment without parole, and he

still is in prison to this day there in Australia. Why was he sentenced? why was he sentenced so he he eventually was convicted of his murders of those people and so i'll kind of start to get into those murders okay now in just a little bit i thought you said that i don't know i thought i misheard i was like he got sentenced before his killings and And I'm like, wait, what? Actually, he did, though, which is kind of funny you bring that up. So before he actually got sentenced for his killings, he had been in and out of prison for like robberies and armed holdups and things like that. So he was never really a good person. It wasn't like one day he sort of just snapped. Well, I guess he did, and of course armed robberies as well.

And then, so yeah, he got on parole after some of his first armed robberies in 1978, but that parole didn't stop him from joining in another armed robbery um it was like that for you man exactly you know he really just couldn't keep himself out of trouble so yes he uh in this armed robbery he um murdered murdered two of the workers there. It was actually at a pizza shop. He murdered the... I have no clue. It's because he didn't get the pepperonis he wanted.

Exactly. No, I think it's because he heard that they had the dough. Oh, God. That was such a no groaner foul right okay carry on So, yeah, he did murder in the pizza shop operator. His name was Bruno Singalani. He was 45 years old, father of two. And he also murdered another woman named Evelyn Adams. And so it sort of just... Sorry.

Not that Evelyn. Not that Evelyn. Not that Evelyn. Sorry. Continue. So in these robberies, you know, it never really, he didn't plan for it to end with murder. And actually later on, he did sort of write an essay and he gave some recounts of the reasons why he made these murders. of the reasons why he made these murders. And when he murdered Evelyn and Bruno,

he said that he had murdered them because the two of them simply just didn't follow his instructions. That's what I was. Robbery gone wrong. Well, not wrong, but like not how he wanted it. Exactly. They weren't acting how he wanted them to.

And ultimately he said that it was their fault that they died because you know he he gave them the the chance to but they didn't live up to his expectations while being threatened with a gun um was yeah he looked like intimidating or not honestly no He just kind of looks like a guy from the 70s. That's what most serial killers look like. Okay. No, but, like, if you didn't look intimidating, I think that contributes to it and kind of explains it. Yeah, it does.

That's true. I don't know. And so I think that sort of just sets the tone of like the type of person that he was he seemed very very egotistical very cold um and a lot of the times he described his um his murders as simply him just like defending himself you, he didn't want to go back to prison or they knew too much or anything like that. So yeah, he with a man named Keith Smith. He was an associate where he was working at. And then also Keith Smith's former girlfriend, her name was Cheryl Gardner. So he thought that the two of them knew too much about his past crimes.

I don't know why, you know, I don't know really why he believed that, but he definitely believed that, you know, they knew all about what he had done in his past robberies with the killings. And so one day he just shot them. He shot Cheryl right in front, right outside her home. So yeah, when he did shoot Cheryl, she was actually also there, I believe, with her 10-year-old son. And so he did end up murdering Danny Mitchell. He was 10 years old, and he he'd end up murdering danny mitchell he was 10 years old and he was cheryl gardner's son yeah but the i think the craziest part about that is that he made danny watch him kill his mom um he didn't want to kill danny the little boy uh he actually consoled him right after killing his mom no and said that he was gonna be okay um but he realized that you know danny could identify him

um so he went and shot him right in the back of the head. So it just goes to show again that it's like, I don't know, he didn't want to kill, but he felt he had to. Yeah. Yeah. It's a joke. He didn't see another way out. Exactly. So another murder he had, did a 1979 actually he um probably like his most brutal attack because this time it wasn't with a gun it was with a knife he killed his

own girlfriend lisa really was 19. so how old was he? 1979, so he was still 21 at the time. Yeah. He stabbed her... No, she was 19. He stabbed her a whole lot more than 19 times. He stabbed her

157 times. Oh my god yeah so he did a lot of damage and that's why it's probably his most brutal attack that he has yeah and it's actually yeah

that just means that there was a coroner who had to count every single stab wound Yeah, that just means that there was a coroner who had to count every single single dad wound wondering when he would stop counting them or they yes counting them Wow Yeah And so he he did stab her after he allowed another man to actually rape her at knife point as well. Oh, God. So she went out in a very bad way.

So after this, though, he was convicted. He was sent to jail for multiple life sentences without parole. and it wasn't until 1991, so yeah, 12 years later, that he actually did murder another inmate in jail as well. Oh, like he wasn't done. Exactly. No, he wasn't. The interesting thing about this, though, is that he actually claimed that, so the inmate that he murdered, his name was Donald Hatherley. Um, and so he actually claimed that he, it was an assisted suicide while in jail. Um, yeah. So he said that, uh, Donald Hatherley, the other inmate, asked him to put a noose around his neck and then kick out a cupboard from under him to basically hang him.

And so that's what Hay kind of details about it. But Hay was still found guilty and convicted of that extra murder of Donald Hathaway as well. Yeah, I mean, it's murder. And also I feel like anyone could use that excuse. Right? It's like,

I don't know, I guess it could have been, but why would they ever believe him, you know? He did ultimately murder another person in jail yeah was that his last murder that was yeah um okay so it's actually interesting though or oh because you said he was still in prison right yeah he was still in prison

i hate to say it but to be determined i i mean he definitely could like i know the what you meant was like he could kill someone else but the first thought that came to my mind was that he somehow like breaks out of jail and then goes on and then goes on like another murder spree but it's definitely just he would kill another inmate yeah i really i really hope he doesn't let's hope that was his last one yeah so um later on while hay was in jail he did write and speak about his killings in some video recordings on paper as well. So when he was talking about his kind of the victim from the pizza shop, Evelyn Abraham

and Bruno Singalani, he said his victims, quote, actions resulted in dependents losing them and quotes and they should have sufficient control of themselves for the span of the offense to enable the crime to go its ugly way so basically he said that they should have just let everything happen and because they didn't that's why he had to kill them. I'm pretty sure the girlfriend let... I mean, she wasn't really fighting that. There was two men in front of her, one with a knife, the other one

on top of her. Well, yeah, no, yes, but this was for the two workers in the pizza shop when he killed them, so when he was just robbing that pizza shop. They had families. And that is sort of how it goes when he recounts lots of his killings like he doesn't he says that he um so one of his quotes that he said was uh quotes owning fully the terrible and regrettable things i have done

to mangle my victims' lives and happiness, it is nevertheless up to them to move on. No. It's like he's saying he's taking... But it didn't get to that. Yes. It's like he's saying that he takes responsibility, but in the exact same sentence,

he just blames them for what he does um yeah it's like it's your fault not moving on exactly uh um man yeah so he has another quote um about it's just it's so interesting reading these quotes he has, because some of them are just so cold and calloused, and I guess that's exactly what makes a serial killer a serial killer. But he did stab his girlfriend Lisa 157 times,

and he said, quote, Amazingly, it seems I stabbed her 157 times end quotes and it's like even even he's surprised by that even he's like oh wow yeah but like it's not like he's a shit yeah like he's like that's kind of like surprisingly cool well yeah no no yeah i'm glad he's behind bars. Yeah, and he said he killed her because she became a loose end because she knew too much about his earlier killings. Yo, don't

get her involved. I just don't care. No, seriously. Let's go with that one. I like your option better thank you i do too wait can you guys still hear me yeah okay okay okay you're not me. And, I don't know, I... Lisa, his girlfriend's murder, is definitely different from the other ones,

because it's the only one that he used a knife with. So it was definitely... It was definitely... What? Go on. What? No, what did you say? Go on, go on, go on, go on, go on. Okay, alright.

But yeah, he used a gun for all of his other murders. Or when he was in prison, he helped hang his fellow inmate with a noose. But in this one, he used a knife. And I think that just points to him sort of having a little less control in this killing and I wonder if that's because it was his girlfriend and maybe he still had some like extra passions against her or anything like that um I mean she got murdered like at their own place like it wasn't out on the streets or anything

right yeah so I feel like it was somewhat planned because he would have to bring a guy over yeah true but so he does um he does have a quote he says um quote i hadn't stabbed anyone to death before she fought surprisingly hard and this ph fazed me. Because of this, when she was finally still, I decided to stab her more in order to make sure she was dead.

Oh my god. Kind of like, I don't know if I'm doing this right, let me just keep going. Exactly. So like, even if it was planned, he just didn't know what he was doing. And that's why he's behind bars.

Yeah. Also, it sounds like he didn't know what he was doing for any of the robberies or any of the other stuff. Mm-hmm. Wow. So, sort of now, in his past years in prison, though, he's sort of tried to move on and make peace in a way. He's tried for parole to lessen his sentence multiple times throughout the years, but most of the time it was denied. I'm not surprised. Yeah. Let's see. Anything else I need to share?

I don't know. It's your story. Any other thoughts you guys have no that was it for that one at least from my point of view or my thoughts yeah me too yeah you too me too you too you sure me too you sure yeah we can save You too? You sure? Me too. You sure? Yeah, what do you say?

Nice. Why is everyone laughing? Because I want to. Yeah, so in 2012, he actually did appeal to the court to sort of seek an early release. And while he was doing that, he told the court, quote, I don't claim to be more than a struggling student of life and that he was a far cry from the monster of yesteryear. So it really seemed like he really thought he was working on himself while he was in prison, but it's like, you know,

how much are we going to believe him? No. I'm glad he's going to get paroled. I mean, fun fact, though, he actually said

that he did a lot of mushrooms in jail. Really? Yeah. That makes him even less.

Yeah. I don't know. Maybe that's why he feels so enlightened now. Oh, that's true. true yeah now he's just drunk yeah he's just drunk no

no I'm sorry that makes it oh never mind I shouldn't say that go ahead nope okay this is gonna be out there for everyone to hear so it is okay

keep it to yourself until next episode nice transition yeah well the three stories three stories for the chamber the equal podcast The three stories. Three stories. For the Chamber of the Equal Podcast. Thanks to everyone

for listening. Thank you guys so much. Definitely a little bit of a rocky start, I would say. But I had a lot of fun. I hope you all did as well. Yeah. It was actually really cool to learn more info from you guys. I kind of as well. Yeah. It was actually really cool to like learn more info from you guys.

I kind of like it. Yeah. Cause it's not like reading it off a book. It's like, you're telling me a story. Yeah. What they said. Is it past your bedtime?

No, I think it is. I already woke up. Okay. Got it. It's wake-up time. It's breakfast time. Wake up.

It's the first of the month. It's not the first of the month. Well, thanks for listening, everyone. Sorry I sprained your heel. No, you're fine. No worries. Yeah, thanks for listening everyone and hopefully you join us for the next episode yeah we'll see you next time feel free to follow us

in our social medias uh instagram at chambers of the occult we have facebook page at chambers of the occult check out the website if you have paranormal or true crime stories to submit to us. Eventually we'll do a listener episode. Or if you have recommendations for us to do as well, check out the website. Or just email us at chambersofyacult at gmail.com

Thanks for listening. Bye. Thank you guys. Bye. Thank you guys. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

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