Chambers of the Occult - Episode #5 Apocalyptic Cult and Poltergeist Household: The Ant Hill Kids' Nightmare and The Enfield Poltergeist's Legacy

Episode Date: March 7, 2024

In this episode we delve into the dark depths of human manipulation and the inexplicable forces of the paranormal.First, we uncover the harrowing tale of the Ant Hill Kids, where charismatic cult leader Roch Thériault's twisted interpretation of spirituality led to one of the most shocking chapters in Canadian history. Witness how manipulation turned a quest for utopia into a living nightmare for its members.Then, we shift to the unsettling disturbances of the Enfield Poltergeist in North London, where in 1977, a family was thrust into the spotlight by an unseen force. Through eyewitness accounts and expert analyses, explore the legacy of one of the most documented paranormal phenomena of the 20th century. Join us as we navigate the thin veil between belief and fear, shedding light on human vulnerability and the potent allure of the unexplained.And for our listeners who crave the extraordinary, be sure to stick around for the bonus story at the end of the episode. We're diving into some of the most unusual and frankly bewildering interactions humans have had with whales through the years.  These stories stretch the bounds of belief and showcase the strange, sometimes grotesque, yet fascinating ways in which human curiosity and nature's giants have collided. It's a glimpse into the oddities of history you won't want to miss.

Chambers of the Occult may contain content that might not be suitable for all listeners. Listener discretion is advised. I'm scared. Welcome back. I'm nervous. Welcome back. Welcome back. Episode five. There we go. Yeah, we're almost half a dozen. Yeah.

Almost. Yeah, yeah. How are you guys doing? The listeners and you, Jay, and you, Alexis. How are you guys doing? Oh, that's right. I'm Jay. Oh, yeah.

I'm Alexis. I'm Kai. I am Greenwell. Good. I had water and I am ready. How are y'all? I'm doing good. I've been sick for the past week, but I'm good.

Just in time for the podcast. Nice. I've also been sick for the past week. Yeah, I wonder who got me sick. I wonder, too too it's crazy wait are y'all coming at me because i was sick last episode no i got him sick no i hung out with alexis like once like a week and a half ago and then i got sick because of it i guess i was like i haven't even seen y'all. No, I have seen y'all. An hour or two.

No fair. Cool. Okay. So, who's getting started this time? I think it's Kai, right? Yeah, I'll get it started. He's telling us his true crime. True crime story. Alexis, you don't want to start us off this time?

No, I'm okay. I'll pass. Cool. Well, Kai, what would you be sharing with us? Today is a bit of a special case.

Yeah. Actually, happy Super Tuesday. Super, oh, it's what? What? This comes out of like a Thursday, but right as of now, it's a Tuesday. What is Super Tuesday? It's just, so many states are voting.

Oh my God, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was going to say everyone. I know it's called Super Tuesday. That's what I heard on the news today. It's like a Super Tuesday. That's cool. I hope y'all know.

I still believe you voted because I don't have the camera on. Okay. Sorry, Kai. You're fine. Happy Super Tuesday. Yeah. Today's case, surprise, surprise, brings us back to Canada.

Oh, my God. But this time, this time it's a good reason. This time it's a good reason. I guess it wasn't a good reason before. No, no, no. It's like a really good reason now. Is that Canada? That's because this is

a suggested story by one of our listeners. Oh. It was Amor the Anonymous. They are. They're anonymous. So thank you to whoever you are. You can look at whoever you want. Thank you very much.

Three suggestions from that person, but I don't remember any of them. Good, good. Okay. In the description, they literally wrote, whoever this person is, they wrote, like, these are not for the faint of heart or whatever. And they weren't lying, actually. This case is really bad. So,

trigger warning for everyone. Yes, trigger major warning. Please, please know what you're listening to right now. Yeah, prepare yourselves mentally. Yeah. I mean, mean the usual it's like an hour so if they want to hear something not so whatever i mean you give the warning kai you know what you're talking about yeah um trigger warning lots of you know

sexual physical abuse um that happened in this so if that's something you do want to skip over, definitely feel free to move on to our next cases. Yeah, or check back in in like an hour. Not like check back in, like forward an hour because that's usually when you're either going to be in the next case or we're wrapping this up.

Mm-hmm. All right. So it goes off to Canada. The case I'm covering today is the anthill kids and so i'm assuming like have have you have either of you like heard anything about it or looked into those cases that were suggested oh no i kind of just put them on. I did, but not this case. Okay. No, not this one. So, like, honestly, the Ant Hill Kid as a name, it seems innocent enough, I guess. And I definitely kind of thought it did sound relatively fine. I was like, what could this case possibly be about?

But definitely quickly found out that of course it's something much more sinister um so the anthill kids what are they what jay i'm assuming with children's involved um part of it yeah only part of it and that's surprisingly uh it gets a lot worse than than you might even think so um off to canada we go off to canada we go uh the anthill kids what were they they are a canadian doomsday cult that was formed in 1977 in quebec by a man named rock um i'm not french so um trying it's okay you know sorry if i messed this this up yeah i'm not french or french canadian but like it's Quebec.

Yeah, French-Canadian. French-Canadian. But Hero was very fanatical, and he did lots of very unspeakable things to the members of his cult over the years. And I really do mean unspeakable things to the members of his cult over the years. And I, I really do mean unspeakable, like reading through this. Um, it just kept getting worse and worse as I was going through and reading through the things that he did.

Well, you won't be speaking about them. I, I'll be talking a little bit. And I mean, if you guys do want to hear more, more detail about things he's done i can definitely give that to you but uh i don't go so far into it into the case yeah um but where

where did this start you know this this was a man before the cult So how did he get to this point? It, of course, all started with his childhood. So Perrault was born on May 16th, 1947, into a French-Canadian family of seven children. He was raised in Thetford Mines, a smaller city in Quebec, Canada. And his father was regularly very abusive towards him as a kid and his siblings as well. So he was a very smart child. You know, he did great in school, very intelligent. He gained lots of favor from the people around him. But in seventh grade, actually,

he decided to drop out of school and start religiously teaching himself the Old Testament of the Bible. Wow. This kid was seven. Household? Sorry? He grew up in a religious household? Yes. household sorry he grew up in a religious household yes so his family was catholic okay so it's not like out of the blue no so his family was catholic but he hated catholicism like he hated the religion oh and and it's probably because you know of the abuse he got from his family yeah but it's like he hated the religion so much yet he still chose to drop out of school and then study the bible yeah that's crazy i don't know at such a young age too exactly seventh grade he was like 13 i believe yeah um it's around that age yeah and so you know he apparently was um he did have like aggressive violent outbursts as a kid um he like on his

his friends and family members um and then you know he started in his teenage years he started to develop like a pretty bad drinking habit um and of course that turned into addiction and it just got much much worse throughout his lifetime fueling a lot of his behavior i would imagine yeah i can't only assume it would go down and right and this actually yeah so he started teaching himself the old testament of the bible and i don't know if you guys know anything about the bible or like specifically the old testament i grew up catholic i grew up with the bible did i read yeah i wouldn't know i i've read enough of the bible and like enough of the old testament to like know that like the old testament specifically is terrible like it is gruesome it it yeah it's chosen in violent parts of like jesus and god

and everything like that it's actually kind of insane if you do choose to read it um yeah like it literally it talks about like all of these bad things about like you know the the men like um like you know rape and raping their families and and everything like that like it is the old testament is actually kind of insane to read um yeah was he like specifically learning about the old testament yes he was specifically learning the Old Testament. That's crazy. Yeah. Correct.

And if I'm not correct, don't come at me. I grew up Catholic, but I'm not like super religious. The Old Testament is the half before Jesus is born, isn't it? Yes. Yeah. It's a lot darker. Like when people tell you to read the bible nowadays they just like skip over the fact that there's an old testament people are like yeah read the new testament

because the old testament is so bad there is lots of like lessons there and like i mean lots of lessons there for sure but it's like kind of hard to get through oh yeah it's like really yeah i haven't read it i tried the audiobook i just couldn't do it the bible audiobook the audiobook i was like bros listening to the book of the pipe. Of the Old Testament. I wonder who they hired to narrate it. I'm sure there's multiple. 100%.

I imagine reading it is as thick as trying to read Game of Thrones. It takes... Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I've heard so yeah um whatever his name is

um it's t-h-e-r-I-A-U-L-T. Oh, what? Yeah, I can understand why you have a little bit of a hard time saying it. Mr. T. Mr. T. Mr. T. You know what? I'm American, not French-Canadian, so I i'm gonna call him therald you know okay that's

how it's pronounced valid yeah all right so he um yeah he hated catholicism he eventually converted to seventh day adventist um in january of 1977 so um like 30 he was about 30 or so when he converted over um and so seventh day adventist is more of like a like a christian catholic kind of branch um and like most branches of christianity or catholicism they recognize like sunday as like the the day of rest type of thing um but seventh day adventist uh goes off of like so sunday i guess is the starting so saturday is their day of rest um and so like they you know really put an emphasis on doing no work on Saturdays, completely relaxing. They're very, I guess, have lots of holistic practices, like no tobacco, no alcohol, no unhealthy foods going into your body, things like that.

So one of the more, I guess, strict branches of religion. one of the more, I guess, strict branches of religion. So, yeah, he converted himself at this point. He was obsessed. He was fanatical. Like, in a good way. I mean, to him. Like, he obsessed like he was obsessed because he liked it.

Yeah, no, and of course, like he found he saw this as good behavior. You know, this is what he loved. He devoted his life to this church, to this God. And he's doing a good thing. But, you know, he got obsessed with the Old Testament red flag. He also got obsessed with the apocalypse. And he stood firm in his belief that the world would end in February of 1979. So two years. Sir.

Yeah. Sir. No, no. Wow. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. This belief consumed him. He was so fearful and he needed to prepare. So Theral, he starts this cult, right? He starts it and it's honestly relatively fine at first. Though we know that that never lasts long for cults.

Yeah. Though we know that that never lasts long for cults. And this time it's no different. So when he formed the cult in 1977, he convinced a small group of people from Quebec and his surrounding area that he convinced them to leave their jobs, their homes, their lives, leave it all behind and join him in his religious freedom movement. And he also made himself known as Moses to his followers. No. Yeah. He was no longer Theralt. He was Moses. Don't rename yourself.

No. Okay. Right? Like, how are you so yeah he named himself under moses what i've also never met of moses oh yeah me neither all right that's just yeah i guess that would be the equivalent. Well, so he did go by Moise, which is Moses in French, I guess. I'm going to say Moses. But yeah, he named himself after a prophet from the Old Testament. And of course, he declared himself a prophet as well. I'm assuming he's got something, not an ark he's what he's gonna

build something you're right yeah not an ark but um he he did eventually build i guess just his his commune for his cult wow but yeah so he formed it in 1977, convinced them to leave everything behind. They made their way out into the nearby Canadian wilderness, and that's actually where they set up and lived in their commune. So they lived out in the forest, pretty much secluded from most of the other world, of course. the other world, of course. So setting up this commune and this cult, his goal was really just to create a simple place where he and his people could live

freely and listen to Theralt's motivational speeches, be free of sin, and everything that came along with it. And is that a quote from him? Not necessarily a quote, but... That's what he told people yeah that that's what he wanted he he wanted them to be able to live simple lives away from you know the distractions

of the world and start to prepare for for doomsday or whatever it was but yeah his behavior got weird of course um oh it got weird really weird and so the the seventh day adventist church they actually kicked him out yeah they kicked him out of the following because they're like you're taking it too far yeah yeah they saw the red flags yeah they saw the red flags i'm like holy shit actually that's how you know things got weird and things got bad that's when things really took a turn for the worst um he didn't take this well right he was part of this church for for so long this was his life and he got kicked out of it. So it got bad.

I'm sure his drinking got even worse as well afterwards. And so at this point, he started to forbid the people of his cult from contacting their families. He made them sever all ties with their former lives, including with the Seventh-day Adventist church. So there was no contacting the outside world sir what no no and they just like go along with this i i that's great i understand cults but i'll never understand cults you know what i mean yeah no i'm picking up at your bidding like it's it's insane that like people follow along with these types of things but also like i know that cult leaders they target the most vulnerable you know yeah yeah

at that point i'd be like you want me to cut them off sure i'm gonna go say goodbye to them in person and then they just never see yeah but that's like you know we've got the we've got the ability to just sit here and think about that they just uh also how many cults were known back in that time honestly yeah probably not many yeah anyway he so yeah he made them cut contact with anything and everyone outside of himself um but there he became increasingly fearful of of the war between good and evil that would come and would be the cause of the apocalypse the world ending in 1979 so that got worse and worse oh do you know how many people followed him so it started off with um around 10 to 15 but it eventually became like over 40 people, 40 members over the years.

So he had, it was decently small for a while, but it got to a pretty big size eventually. Yeah. So a year later, 1978 is when his preparation for the apocalypse really was set in motion. So he, he moved his commune and he had them hike a long ways, all the way through the wilderness in order to make their way to the eternal mountain, as it was called.

So a mountain still in like the Quebec wilderness, but they just hadn't managed to make their way even deeper. in the Quebec wilderness, but they just hadn't managed to make their way even deeper. No! Yeah. He moved them, but made them hike through the woods to get there.

So, the commune was in the mountains? Sorry? The commune was in the mountains? No, so it was like... It was... Yeah, no, it was in the mountains, but he was just, like,

tucked, like, yeah, tucked in, like, the little nestles of the mountains, I guess. So, very isolated. Damn. Yeah, very isolated. So, they got to the Eternal Mountain. And of course, they're all Tegus relaxed. He didn't do anything. And he forced his commune to work. He started to make them build up their their little community, build up where they were going to live and so he actually noted while they were working that they looked like ants working in and out anthill and that's why they're the anthill kids yeah

the name comes from yeah like he was just sitting back watching them slave away for him um and and that's not even anywhere close to the worst of what he did no i'm sure i mean we're just getting started yeah so of course his drinking problem got worse it worsened and worsened even though drinking was prohibited by adventist rules so that's what i was gonna ask i was like did it rejoin and realize that it was like prohibited uh-huh yeah it was prohibited but he didn't care you know he was a prophet he could do whatever he wanted yeah so things got worse and worse and worse um of course his cult you know followed after him but there was little seedlings of doubt that would happen every now and then um but to really secure the people into his cult and keep them

devoted he there else he would marry and impregnate all of the women in the cult so at that point there were about nine female members um and he eventually became the father to over 20 children i believe 23 children why is how many that he had from the nine women that were a part of his cult at the time um no oh my god so he yeah so he basically forced them you know into his care um more so than they already were he he made all of his members you know wear like identical tunics and clothes and stuff so that they would all be equal and by equal that meant they would all be under him type of thing yeah so starting from the the very beginning of this cult um at this point now a year later he was totalitarian like he he exercised all control all authority over his cult members um they weren't allowed to speak to each other when he wasn't present um so they couldn't even communicate wait no yeah they could not speak to each other if he was not there.

And he still stayed? Yeah. Yeah. They couldn't speak. They couldn't have sex with each other without his explicit permission. So he had to decide for them. he was abusive, but nobody questioned his judgment. Nobody did. They let it happen. And I, and it just gets so much worse. So grown as adults, just following what this one man says.

Yeah. And, and it's like this happens so much more often than we think too oh yeah that we're aware and not even in just cults as well like just smaller instances of of domestic you know abuse and things like that and um it's terrible that things like this and and men like this are allowed to to roam to repopulate the earth yeah no literally it's doing with 20 children like how do you even take care of that many children he doesn't he has the people I've got two dogs and I can

barely manage them if you had a commune they could take care of your dogs true I'm going to become a cult leader thanks guys stay here first but yeah you guys haven't forgotten though right that he

thought the apocalypse was going to happen in February of 1979 at this point it's late 1978 so it's really close and his people are believing that the doomsday is going to come. Of course, February 1979 comes around, Judgment Day. And surprisingly, surprise, surprise, nothing happens, right? The world does not end in 1979.

Are you telling me we're part of the reborn world? Yes, we are, actually. No, we're actually a part of the second reborn world, because remember how the world was going to end in 2012? Yeah, I was going to say. I remember I was like, like, like I, um, I was like, so, so honestly scared of the world ending in 2012 when I was little, especially because like, I grew up Christian and like my family's Christian and like, they kind of believed it that like, um, you know know god would come down in like 2012 to um you know like whatever it's called the the reckoning day or whatever where he takes all his followers up to heaven and i was like oh my gosh 2012 i'm gonna go to heaven you're like nine

it's wild i mean people that still believe that the you know days close yeah and everyone else that's like if it's gonna happen it's gonna happen i'm not gonna know when it happens mm-hmm that's so funny like 12 you thought the purge was good yes i told you this okay so let me get this straight so we have kai who thought that the bible reckoning was going to happen and then we have the lecture who thought someone someone told me in the seventh grade that the purge was going to happen in 2020 and i was like oh my god it's crazy and i was like thinking of ways I could survive. Anyways.

Join, do not join a cult. You will not survive there. Join my cult. Okay, I'll join your cult. He convinced me. He's a cult master. I'm just like, they're out for real. Okay, no. Cut that out.

I need to know more about him, but I already don't like him. Okay, okay, okay. So 1979 comes around, the world does not end, and his people are like, what? They're like, what the hell? And they start questioning him right because they had believed for years now that the world was going to end and it didn't yeah but they left everything behind because exactly now guess what this man told them he said he said that time on earth is different from time in god's world so there must have been a miscalculation.

No. And they believed it. Oh, gosh. Or they accepted it at the very least. I'm sorry. There's no miscommunication. If Moses was able to build a boat just in time for the flood, there was no miscommunication there. You're so right. You're so right.

Anyway, keep going. Yeah. They accepted that answer and they carried on. they they accepted that answer and they carried on um people though did start to doubt him a little bit more because of this um he wasn't as believed and also at this point you know his drinking got even worse he got even worse um quick question yeah do you know where he's getting the alcohol from because they're they have or is someone know where he's getting the alcohol from? Because they're... Is someone going to town to buy the alcohol? Probably. I imagine he also probably learned to, like, make his own living out there.

But they weren't fully, fully isolated. They still needed, like, money and ways to sort of make a living um so how they did that is they would sell baked goods to like the local cities i guess so you know they probably took in some money from those goods and then spent it on alcohol for him that probably no one else yeah exactly fair okay no go ahead but yeah um punishments started to begin and really they got they got worse and worse um you know what's a maniacal cult leader without some some punishment as well punishment for anything literally anything you know some of these punishments that he did honestly Punishment for? For anything. Literally anything, yeah. Literally anything.

Some of these punishments that he did, honestly, like too horrible for me to fully go into detail on. But he would, you know, he claimed divine authority over his people, which meant that he could punish them for anything that he disapproved of, the smallest things. So like I mentioned, the cult made their money by selling baked goods. If they didn't manage to sell enough that day, they would get beaten, they'd get punished. If someone tried to leave the cult, he would hit them with belts, hammers, suspend them from the ceiling, pluck out each of their body hairs individually. Okay, so at this point there was no getting out anymore.

No. No. You were as good as dead if you wanted to leave this cult. And sometimes he'd even defecate on them too. So he did lots of horrible

things. It's honestly a lot to think about. But it got even worse. He'd make them break their own legs with sledgehammers, sit on lit stoves, shoot each other in the shoulders. each other in the shoulders um he'd make them eat dead mice eat their own feces or other people's feces he'd do anything nothing was off limits nothing was too much of a punishment for his people no i'm just nodding my head now yeah like there's so much that's that's not where it ends he'd um he'd he'd cut off people's arms and legs with no warning whatsoever and sometimes he'd he'd use a saw sometimes he'd use a small hunting knife um he'd hold them over fires or nail them to trees while the other members threw rocks at them and and so so much more that i have not even gotten into and i probably won't get into okay question you probably

know the answer or maybe not um what was his relationship like with his kids um non-existent i guess so like the kids were not excluded from whatever he was doing to everyone oh definitely not um he he did manage to actually kill two of his children um through some of this punishment um so to his children and other children in the community as well, of course, um, you know, sexual assault, um, uh, you know, birding and, and sometimes a lot of the kids got the things where they were like, you know, nailed to the tree and like the other kids would have to throw the rocks at them for um for doing these small little things from the old testament i know right like it's that's okay i guess um but yeah so he um he did, yeah, kill two of his children. One of them, he almost saw himself as, like, a surgeon as well, which is, yeah, no. Oh, he keeps that open. Wow. But, yeah, so he managed to kill one of his children by trying to circumcise him.

So he tried to circumcise one of his children and ended up killing him, which I don't like thinking about. Oh, my God. Another one of his children, he left out in the cold as a punishment. And so he ended up passing away as well. You leave someone out in Canada. Overnight, overnight out in the cold in the Canadian wilderness. That's so sad. Like I said, nothing was too much.

Nothing was off limits. um that's so like like i said nothing was too much nothing was off limits and this is where i like i i i was like i like you know scooted my chair in a little bit further and was like holy shit like this is worse than i thought it was and you know the person who suggested this really wasn't kidding when they said it wasn't for the faint of heart. We're just getting started, though. And we're just getting started. I'm not done. Yeah. So. Okay. Over time. Yeah. Over time, of course, you know, his punishments kept getting worse and worse and worse. So, after this, Therolt, he started to try to, like, reel himself back into, like, his original mission with the commune.

I'm sorry, what was the original mission? To him, it was that he needed to, you know, like purify his followers and make sure that they were gone of all of their sin and live very pure lives. And he thought that the best way of doing this, ridding them of their sims were sins of course was through abusive purification um that's not a thing to him it was apparently yeah i can see why you threw your chair in yeah i know i was like holy shit um so he would he would whip and beat his members while they were completely nude um probably out in the cold as well um he you know he claimed himself as like the the holy being with his divine authority um and so that's when he started to

really consider himself like a surgeon and he started performing um surgical operations on on sick members of his cult um so there was one time um in so yeah he um some of these like surgeries that he did would be to uh like i mentioned earlier like you try to perform circumcisions on children and even adults in would inject like like ethanol into people's stomachs why just to if if they complained of a stomach ache or if they were hurting you know that was how he would solved it which oh with ethanol yeah yeah smart man no i hate myself With ethanol. Yeah. Yeah. Smart man. No. I hate myself. Oh, my gosh. You're revealing your true colors here.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I laugh in the face of everything dark. I mean, so do I. Alexis just grows quiet. That's how I stay sane. Oh, that's probably how they, you know, I was going to be like, that's probably what they did as well. No, they couldn't even talk amongst each other. Yeah, no, they couldn't. No, they could not. community they did grow a bit suspicious because they knew that there was this like isolated group of of of people out in the wilderness but since the cult was registered as a church

um the police really had no authority to investigate or ways to look or anything like that freaking church yep yeah it was a church um the the the closest thing they could do was send out like social workers to check up on the children and make sure the children were being properly taken care of um in 1987 there were social workers that were sent there and they actually removed 17 of the children from the commune. God. But Theralt faced no charges or repercussions or anything. Because nobody talked of the abuse, nobody talked of the damage or anything but like of course

they could just see that these kids weren't being properly taken care of so they haven't it's right 17 right but there was no further investigations really and that's completely sick you think when 17 kids have to remove from anywhere you have to look into the situation. Do an investigation. Like a full investigation. What is going on there? Yeah. So

one of the like notable things I guess going back to the surgeries specifically like complaints of like an upset stomach, there's this case of him performing another surgery on one of his followers. Her name is Selenge Boillard.

And literally right now I'm looking at what I had wrote down and i almost don't want to say it like in my head i'm considering whether to actually say it or not because it's so bad um so at the beginning of the episode kyan gave a give a warning um this is a second warning yeah so again sorry if you've been listening to this um i hope you're okay um yeah but yeah another trigger warning i guess so he he performed a surgery on solange in 1989 of course no anesthesia or anything like that. She was nude. He had her lay down on a table because she complained of an upset stomach. Simply just an upset stomach. Tum-tums.

Sorry? I was like, he could have given her tum-tums. Right? Instead, he punched her in the stomach multiple times. He forced a plastic tube into her rectum. He then filled it up, filled the tube up with molasses and olive oil. This man is not a doctor nope not at all he was he never will be ah no no not at all um he then proceeded to cut open her abdomen so he cut into her stomach ripped out part of his or part of her intestines with his bare hands and then he made another one of his members uh stitch her up using just a needle and thread um uh-uh i'm assuming at some point during this she died she did um so this other lady uh gabrielle lavalier um

gabrielle was the the girl that he made stitch her up with a needle and thread um he then had gabrielle shove a tube down her throat and blow through it I don't know what he thought that would accomplish how I guess it doesn't need to accomplish anything. He's just a sick fuck. Yeah. Yeah. So, of course, Selene, she did die the next day from all the damage from the procedure. But, of course, you know, Theralt had divine authority, which meant he also had the power of resurrection. What?

I'm sorry. After everything he did for this so-called surgery, what is he going to do to bring her back? Oh, it's pretty bad, too. Oh, it's pretty bad, too. He started off with sawing off the cap of her skull, exposing her brain, and then he ejaculated onto her brain. And it's actually said that he got all of the men in the commune to do so as well because that's what resurrection entails this people at this point if they're not scared for their life i don't know what's going through their heads how do you go along with that i'm sorry i i'm i'm not it not even in like a victim blaming type of way it's just like i feel like i would i would have gone insane and ran away and yeah in this situation

a lot of them have fear like i would have rather ran out into the wilderness and died from the cold than be a part of this. I don't know. And I guess that's easy for me to say, sitting here behind a computer, right? But they had to hike to get there, didn't they? Which means they would have to hide. They did, yeah. Yeah. Of course, Solange, the girl who who was killed did not come back to life

and so they just buried her um not far away from the the commune and i'm assuming he didn't give a reason why it didn't work nope no you know probably just you, I didn't want her alive or something like that. At this point, he's just trying to see how much shit he can get away with. No, exactly. Exactly. And it's it's terrible because he got away with so much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So.

So Gabrielle, the the girl that was tasked with stitching her back up and blowing down that tube in her throat. Gabrielle was eventually responsible for the arrest of Daryl. Okay. I was going to be like, is she the next victim? She, she was going to be essentially, she managed to escape and let the authorities know. So Gabrielle,

Gabrielle got it bad as well. In, you know, that year 1989 um or really the 80s as a whole she um she suffered like you know torch burns to her you know her genitals she had needles broken off into her back. She had her teeth forcibly taken out. Lots of things like that. Oh my God. Sorry. Yeah. So she had so much done to her. And because of all of this, she attempted to escape. She ran away from the commune because she couldn't.

She couldn't. She eventually came running back because she couldn't survive outside of the commune. What? Of course, yeah. She came back. She couldn't survive. She didn't know what to do. And of course, she was punished for this.

So he cut off parts of her breasts he smashed her head in um he uh he like cut off one of her fingers um when she came back um after she tried to escape he cut off one of her fingers. He hammered her hand into a wooden table. Or sorry, no, she pinned her hand or he pinned her hand to the wooden table with a knife. So like he drove the knife into her hand. And then he managed to amputate her arm after that. All while she was stuck to this table this moral woman is never going to have a normal life yeah so it it took all of that it took getting her arm amputated in in one of the most painful manners I've ever heard. All of this stuff, it finally took that

for her in 1989 to attempt to escape again. So she fled the commune again, but this time she committed. She managed to contact the authorities who then raided the commune. They dissolved the Ant Hill kids. The cops, of course, they had their suspicions, like I said. They just never had anything to go on with it. Yeah, exactly. So they... But even after Gabrielle contacted the authorities, they still couldn't really do much. They didn't have much evidence, surprisingly. Um, they didn't have much evidence. You know, there was this girl with her arm who was cut off, but other than that, there

was not much else. And a lot of the other cult members, they didn't talk, right? Because they were still so in fear of Theralt, or they were still loyal to him in some ways. What do the cops think happened to this woman? So what Theralt was charged for, he was found guilty of assault for the amputation of her arm. And he got a 12-year sentence in prison, which is... Nothing! Like, what? Like, he only was found guilty of assault and only got 12 years. years.

Yeah. Most of the cults after that, they did abandon the cults. They abandoned Theralt. But I'm sure they were you know, they still didn't want to talk. They were still too scared or in fear or whatever it may have been

where they didn't really come forward with much more information. So yeah, Thorelt was arrested. He eventually went to a couple different prisons, In his time in prison, he actually managed to have another four children with the remaining female members of his cult. Yeah. So he had the conjugal visits which were allowed, which are like a spouse visit, essentially, where you have private time with your partner. And so he had like a few wives still so of course like they legally had to remain faithful and went to visit yeah yeah um but the the report from gabrielle who managed to, you know, escape, they eventually did get more from her.

They allowed, they went further into the investigation, and they exposed, you know, a lot more of the abuse. They exposed the murder of Solange, the girl that he cut open. 1993 is when Therrell pleaded guilty to second degree murder he was sentenced to life imprisonment and then um in 2000 he was transferred to dorchester penitentiary um it's uh in new brunswick canada he was uh rejected for parole because you know he was too high of a risk to re-offend because makes sense i'm glad they didn't let him out yeah um on february 6th or february 26th uh 2011 and he was 63 uh therald was actually killed near his cell at Dorchester Penitentiary. Yeah, so he had a cellmate. His name was Matthew Gerard MacDonald.

He was a 60-year-old convicted murderer from Canada as well. MacDonald pleaded guilty to that murder because whatever, he was already serving a life sentence for his previous murder. MacDonald had stabbed Therault in the neck with a shiv. So the story goes is that MacDonaldald he walked up to the guard station handed the guards his shiv and he said quote that piece of shit is down on the range here's the knife i've sliced him up end quote you know what oh yeah uh mcdonald i admire what you do. I support it. I support it. I don't know.

Even a convicted murderer was like, no, this guy's a piece of shit. Literally, that's how you know. That's how you know. That's insane. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Props to him, I i guess i'm glad that this motherfucker that made the cult never got out again yeah i'm glad that the kids don't have to deal with this person as a

father i i wonder how those kids are now because like they're definitely still alive. Yeah. All of them, except for them, of course, ones that did die. But I feel like I want to know more about the kids, but also there is nothing out there. And that's completely valid. Because if I was one of these kids i would not want anything to do with any of this like i would not want my information to be out there i wouldn't want people looking for me and trying to learn my story yeah no and that's very logical that that's

totally fair yeah um in an actual little thing, like in. So there's this there's this website. I don't know if it still exists, but I guess in 2009 it did. It's called Murder Auction dot com. And no, I think I have heard of it in the past. So it's like it calls itself a true crime auction house. And they're all tried to sell some of his artwork on there in 2009. So it's like a, it calls itself a true crime auction house. And, um, they're all tried to sell some of his artwork on there in 2009.

So his artwork, his poetry, um, and the website like let him, like they were willing to let him sell his work on there, but the old, no, thankfully the like Canadian correctional service, they, they stopped it from ever happening. They stopped his work from leaving the penitentiary. The actual minister for the Canadian Federal Public Safety Service, Public Safety Service. He actually wrote to express concern that Thoreau was benefiting from work in prison and from trying to sell his drawings and stuff. And they're like, yeah, he is. We're not going to let this guy have anything. We're not going to let him

put his name out anywhere. So yeah. Like, like, I could go more in detail about some of the things, but I don't feel I really need to. I think it was like an overall glance at this man. Yeah. yeah like if anyone would like to do more of their own research of course you're more than welcome to but i i do think i covered it pretty well for you to you know lock this away and never think about it ever again yes you did a very good job thank you and i was also surprised to learn how recent this was yeah no literally i was say, I think that's kind of recent. I don't know, 1977, when this all started, it kind of feels like a long time ago, but it really wasn't. Yeah.

It really wasn't. I agree. Considering the fact that he only died in 2011. What, 13 years ago? That's not a long time. And those kids that were born during that time, they're around 47 years old. Yeah, they are... They have lived their lives, but they're not even towards the end of them yet. They still have a lot more life left to live, hopefully. Yeah.

towards the end of them yet they still have a lot more life left to live hopefully yeah wow could you imagine being that kid and then just getting married and then having to be like hey honey um i've got something to tell you and it's like have you ever heard of this man that's hard. I always like, I always think about that. Like I know in, in true crime cases or even in like, um, you know, TV shows like criminal minds or whatever,

where, um, where there's like children of, of murderers or serial killers or families that have to, you know, be taken away and put into protection like i always wonder like what happens and to them like physically like mentally emotionally like how do you survive from this how do you move on and recover yeah it's hard that's something that like i don't think i'll ever really know because

i don't know if ever brought it up when i was covering the case of um um the case in spain the boy painter yeah the boy painter there was an interview with the mom and she said you know like his brothers were also very affected by it but because it was like so long ago like not like super far away but she said now i know that what the kids needed is what we now call like counseling and therapy she said like it really helped the kids a lot but in times like this it's like it's it wasn't that common to go into therapy because trauma and situations like this. I mean, I hope those kids are I mean, grown men now are OK. That they're having a full life and don't have to ever look back at this.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. It's. Yeah. Something I guess I'm glad I don't have to think about anymore you don't have to yeah

there all right well thank you guys for thank you for doing the research on that and sharing it with us listeners thank you for having us not. Yeah.

Thank you, listener, for the suggestion. Well, I mean, maybe I shouldn't be thanking you for what you put me through. Thanks for the story. Thank you for the story. Thank you for the story. You deserve a round of applause. Thank you. Snaps.

I don't know if you can hear that. I heard one. Okay. It's a thought that counts. Yeah. It is. Thank you. So who's next?

Alexis? That would be me. Are you Alexis? I'm next. No. No way. But for now I am. Oh.

Cool. So my breath tastes we we are not going to romania i'm sorry guys i'm so sorry we're not going to romania no but we are going to London. We're going to England. We're going to Enfield, London, baby. Wait, I know. Yeah.

Now, before I say this story for you guys and for the listeners, like I said in the beginning of this, I was sick for like a week and a half. I'm still recovering. I am probably going to mute myself so that I can cough and not cough in your guys's ears every now and then. I was doing that. Yeah. Yeah. Last time. Go ahead.

So my case is pretty well known all over the world there has been many different films made about this case um but the one that is very popular as of lately at least um the conjuring 2 now the conjuring 2 i Now, the Conjuring 2, I do want to say what? Is it because I did? I know. I know. I know.

I know. For a couple years, I had an obsession with all the cases that Ed and Lorraine did. So, like, Iraine did. I know quite a bit. This girl had an obsession with the Columbine shooters.

Yeah, I did. Sorry, guys. I probably do that case too, if you guys want. If you want to cover it, I know that I honestly don't know very much about the shooters. OK, I'll cover that case another episode, another episode, next episode, if I'm doing. But for now, we're covering the Enfield Poltergeist. field poltergeist so yeah the conjuring to um the conjuring to it is based off of this kind of phenomena but it's it is and isn't accurate like there are certain things that

are pretty accurate to the history of it but of course there are some things that are pretty accurate to the history of it. But of course, there are some things that are dramatized and things like that. So this takes place on August 1977. Peggy Hodgson and her four children. She had four children. Margaret, who was the eldest. She was 13 at the time. Janet being the next sister, she was 11, as well as Johnny and Billy. I don't know what their ages are. I tried to find them, but it doesn't really say anything on here. Okay. But who's really important is Margaret and Janet, as they were the ones being targeted by said entity. So the family had rented a home on 284 Green Street.

Yeah, I'm getting specific with this. Actually, I have a picture of the house. Yeah, I have a photo of the house as well, which I can actually send to you guys. Can you repeat the address? I want to look it up. 284 Green Street. Okay, thank you.

Yeah, of course. But pretty cute little small house, and of course the family was living it for a while. Peggy was a single mother of these four children. And on the night of August 30th, she had actually made a call to the Metropolitan Police to report knocking sounds on the wall and furniture moving not only did she claim this but she also claimed that an invisible force had been trying to trap them in a room so janet

yeah janet had said quote it started in a back bedroom the chest of drawers moved and you could hear shuffling and quote now this was actually said in a channel 4 and field poltergeist documentary so if you guys want to check that out feel free to do so but okay um at the time you know when the kids told their mom this, the mom, Peggy, she thought it was a prank. She thought it was just her kids trying to pull a little joke on them. Valid. But then Janet had said in this interview, she had said,

quote, we told her what was going on and she came to see for herself. She saw the dress of drawers moving when she tried to push it back. She couldn't end quote so like it was jeff the mongoose messing with them you're not supposed to spoil the surprise no honestly when you said like i was trying to keep them in the room and there was like shuffling. I was like, Jeff? Literally. I was like, maybe it was Jeff. No.

Jeff is the end of Poltergeist? Oh my God. Oh my God. We just love this mystery. I'm going to be honest. Yes. When I think of Poltergeistist i don't think of scary ghosts i don't think of scary guests either i think of just like a like a silly little ghost who's like going around just throwing things because like he's bored i don't know i think of luigi's

mansion i love luigi's mansion like poltergeist is just such an unserious word for a ghost. Literally. They're just so silly. They're just trying to play around with you guys. I think of Casper as a poltergeist, you know? Yeah. Well, you've never

even watched Casper before. I have watched Casper. Well, that's because a beautiful person showed you. Get on with your story. Yes, Jeff showed him

Casper. Jeff walked into the house and turned the TV on and then said, vanish. He did. So, what had happened uh when peggy had made the call to the police one police officer had actually witnessed a chair in the hodgson's family home quote wobble and slide yet could not determine the cause of the movement, end quote. There are many different other claims that people had made, like

disembodied voices, overturned chairs, thrown toys, loud noises, but the strangest of them all, children levitating. Children? Ones that live in there? or like apparition of children. No,

no, no, no. Like Margaret and Janet levitating. I actually have a photo of them. I actually have a photo of Janet to not Margaret, but yeah, I am.

I took a bite of food as you said, levitating. So like, I didn't hear it fully. And I thought you said lactvitating, so I didn't hear it fully. And I thought you said lactating. And that changed things a lot for me. That's exactly what I said. Yeah, that changed things a lot for me.

And levitating surprisingly makes more sense in this context. Oh, yes. sense in this oh yes yes pardon me wants to say lactating but okay we'll go with levitating i guess okay okay so like i said children levitating that was like the main thing that stuck out to not only me but i'm sure everyone um so another question some people may ask is how long did this go on for how many people saw this what did they see things like that um so over 30 yes question yeah how long did this go for how many people saw this what did they see there we go that's it okay so um thank you for asking those questions over 30 people have witnessed paranormal events at this home um including paranormal investigators ed and lorraine warren being one of them uh journalists and the hodgson family neighbors

so they claim to have witnessed like heavy furniture moving on its own objects being thrown across the room and Margaret, as well as Janet, uh, we're seeing levitating several feet off of the ground. Um, witnesses had recorded a lot of these events happen as well and would pick up loud knocks and like low gruff voices.

Are there are there like recordings out there? Yes. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. You could easily find them. There's a lot on YouTube as well. Huh? It's a well-documented case.

Yeah, it is a very well-documented case. Yeah, it is a very well-documented case. It was actually a case that was so well-documented and covered regularly, it was on the Daily Mirror newspaper up until 1979. So this had went on for essentially two years, from 1977 to 1979. Damn. Yeah. from 1977 to 1979. Damn. Yeah. Did they try to stop it, or was it just something that they tried to live with?

It was a mixture of both. It was them trying to stop it, more so them trying to figure out what exactly it was in the beginning. You know, and then noticing that nothing was changing, nothing was stopping. They of course had to find ways to

essentially live with it. Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. So So everything was documented up until 1979. That's the last that was known. There are many different types of people that came into the home. Oh, that's so true. That's apocalypse here. That's apocalypse here. The Enfield poldgeist caused the apocalypse no no no no

the apocalypse wasn't coming the poltergeist was coming both of them were who came first the poltergeist or the crazy cultist anyway okay so um like i said this was documented on literally everything like you could you see it

on the news there was the newspaper there was like it was on tv a lot of the time. So there are many different audience viewers, I guess, if you should say. A lot of people like paranormal believers, and of course, the skeptics. This entire story was seen by literally everyone. Everyone was spectating this. For some, it was really hard to believe. It had caught the attention of Maurice Gross, an inventor, and Guy Leon Playfair, a writer. They're both members of the Society for Psychical Research. But it also caught the attention of anita gregory and john baloff they're both parapsychologists so for those who may not know what parapsychology is um as i'm raising their yeah i had to look it up too because i was like this is a big word but um i've always thought it's weird parapsychology i it's weird. Parapsychology.

Yeah, parapsychology is weird. They just essentially study psychic phenomena. I just think it can't really be studied. Because we don't understand the paranormal, I guess. Exactly. What about your studying? You also don't need to be a

psychologist to call yourself a parapsychologist like you know yeah so it's something you just like name yourself wait what literally assume that there's no degree attached with this exactly yeah yeah so it's literally just like people people studying things like telekinesis and things like that, just to clarify it a little bit more. Clairvoyancy. But while Gross and Playfair believed the hunting to be genuine, Gregory and Beloff had not been convinced and actually found evidence of the girls faking certain incidents for the journalists. Now, the girls did admit that they had hooked some of the incidents to prank some of the journalists at the time. But they didn't fake at all is what they claimed. They never specified what was real or what was fake.

That would just invalidate everything for me. Literally. How are you just going to admit that you fake some of it? I don't know. I may interject real quick, Your Honor. It could be the chance that the whole thing was real. And when the reporters and news stations and like those people showed up nothing was happening

so in order for the girls to not look crazy they could have done something to be like just to keep up I don't know. That's definitely what was portrayed in The Conjuring 2 in the movie they like make it so that it's like

nothing happens when they're around so because they, like, make it so that it's, like, nothing happens when they're around. So because they're, like, the entity is, like, threatening the girls to, like, lie. And if they don't lie and say that they, you know, faked it, that they'll kill their parents, like, things like that. So, like, there's, like, different reasons as to why they may have lied at the time. But nonetheless, they admitted to faking some of it yeah you know um so again they never really specified what was real what was fake but despite everything play fair had actually written a book called this house is haunted which she published in 1980 talking about how all these events were caused by an entity entity and um gross and play fair knew that there were certain things that had been exaggerated by the kids um they had actually recorded janet bending spoons and attempting to bend an iron bar

as well she she was caught like yeah she was caught like banging a broom on the ceiling so that would create like noises within the house spook everyone. I can just imagine, like, someone whispering to the child, like, okay, go to the broom! And, like, they start hitting it. No, literally. Like, I

can see, like, the side where, like, the, but I can also see the side where, like, it happened, and it's kind of funny as they do it. Yeah. What's the... That movie we watched, Alexis, the Pecule Poirot movie of...

Yeah. I don't know how at the beginning there's the lady who is the spiritualist and does the... Wait, you're talking about, are you talking to, hold on. Are you talking about? Yes,

yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. I know what you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. And like how like it's lady,

but then really it's just like the kids who are doing the, the like ghost stuff in the background, like once hiding in the chimney or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. It just reminds me of that. No, literally. i'll just fake really good movie by the way yeah no insanely good movie

what have you seen the other two yeah i i love those movies oh i i honestly i love agatha agatha christie stories like even if she is a terrible person, I still, I do like what she wrote. We can appreciate the artwork of someone that was terrible. True. Yeah. Haunting in Venice. A cult leader. She's not a cult leader, think.

No, no, no, no, no, not her. The one you just covered. You know how he tried to sell his poems? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, we can appreciate art from some people, just not the cult leaders. Just, yeah, just one you just covered. You know how he tried to sell his poems? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We can appreciate art from some people, just not the cult leaders. Yeah, just not the cult leaders. Yeah. Not a cult leader.

Okay. Okay. So, so another thing during a lot of these interviews, so like they admitted to get some paranormal activity like even while they were right in front of them sitting down doing nothing they would still um see the furniture moving around and hear the knocks the banging on the ceilings and along the walls as well. So lots of knocks and noises. It wasn't...

Yeah, like... Cool. See, but that's what I imagine a poltergeist doing. I don't imagine poltergeists actually doing anything. They're just going around knocking on stuff. I don't know. Yeah, because they're just... I don't know.tergeists actually doing anything. They're just going around knocking on stuff. Yeah, because they're just... I don't know. They're chilling. But...

Poltergeist starts off as a poltergeist unless they're categorized as something else. Okay. Because everything could just start off as a poltergeist and they can be like, oh no, we're wrong. It's something else that's also true i don't i don't i don't know how like ghosts get categorized really

the closest thing i know is uh is phasmophobia um i love phasm yeah good game anyway lots of knocking around the house thuds uh yeah um uh one thing that the conjuring 2 had involved is like they would be in the room and there was like crosses on the wall and they would you would just see them slowly turning upside down that did not happen um that did not happen within this situation. There were no crosses in their home. It was just a normal house, you know, like nothing really, anything too crazy like that. But the levitating did happen. A lot of people had witnessed this sad levitation going on um some sometimes there was like the photo that i sent to you guys actually um it's actually a photo of her being hurled from her bed but that could easily just be her she's just she's just jumping yeah he's

thinking and if you zoom in you can see the people like or the kids in the other bed kind of like screaming of fear like if you zoom into his face no this 100 looks like kids just like playing a prank what yeah um but i mean i'd love to see the video that'd be a different story yeah yeah there there was still support with the family especially from gross and um play fair they had fully supported them throughout this and like had been their right hand man essentially throughout this whole situation they believed so much they believed so much that they

tried convincing the girls to retract their confessions to what? to retract their confessions yeah what? they were like but it happened you know why would they want that

because they just wanted this to be real they wanted it so badly i know playfair was a writer and he wrote a book off of this so he profited off of this you know like i'm i'm sure that's why he wanted it to be real i don't know why gross wanted it to be real he was an inventor like he he wasn't really gonna make anything out of this like right it was all for his own sake essentially i don't know i don't know i don't know. I don't know why they believed him. He didn't. Hmm? What? He, like, truly believed in it. Yeah.

I mean, I guess if he did... No, they did. They both did. When you first introduced him as an inventor, I was like, what? I was like, what does that have why is he here why is he in this literally actually fair like put like on the newspaper like an ad for like poltergeist at home seeking help and a man shows up and he's like i'm an inventor here to help you

vent are here to help you. There's pictures of Ghostbusters in my head. He built a ghost gun. He invented a ghost gun. A ghost capture device. Literally. So they wanted the kids to retract their statements. Yeah, but there's no going back.

They literally just, they put that out there for everyone to know. The two men had received a lot of criticism for being so gullible or, you know, I don't know what they were. Meanwhile, parapsychologists Gregory and Beloff had come to their own conclusions of it all being a trick played on the investigators by the girls um this entire story is very controversial like i said not only do believers watch this entire thing unravel but so did skeptics so there's a lot of like was it real was it not but demonologists ed and lorraine warren had gone to the house themselves and they believed it was supernatural as well but there was like nothing to determine whether it really was real or not it was all literally

things that they had seen, but they had also seen some of the girls faking some of the things, you know, there was many different that could explain it. So there was that state of doubt. Yeah. Yeah. There was a lot of debate on this.

A lot of people actually accused the warrant of being frauds as well. Because of the fact that they thought this was fake, you know? Yeah. Which, valid, honestly. So the girls had appeared on a televised interview on BBC Scotland and during the interview, Margaret and Janet were asked, quote, how does it feel to be haunted by a poltergeist? To which Janet replied,

it's not haunted. Oh, what? Then what is it? Margaret immediately interrupted her, saying, shut up. It's on television, dude. immediately interrupted her saying shut up is is the tv clip still out there like i imagine it is right i've been trying to find it but i haven't had any success you might love to see that that would be actually i do find it i will

give you guys a link, but yeah, I've been actively trying to find it, but I can't. We might've been posting on Instagram. Just the clip. Literally. Would be really fun.

That was like one thing that I actually really liked reading about was the whole shut up. I don't know. That was like the cherry on top for me. It's funny literally um a lot of different like documentaries and movies were made about the enfield poltergeist um a lot of other ones that are actually much more popular than the conjuring 2 there's a show that came out actually last year.

Um, it's called the end failed haunting. Uh, you can watch it on. Okay. There was, there's another one that was made in 2015 and then another one made last year.

The one made last year can only watch it on Apple TV. So if you guys want to watch it on Apple TV, you can, I do not have Apple TV. You know what? Yeah. Why? But we'll just have a movie night. A movie night? I support it. But...

See that movie about Jeff, the talking mongoose? Oh my god. That would be amazing. The Bat Boy play? Honestly, I would love to watch it. I'd love to listen to it again. Yo, there's a song called

There's a Dead Cow, and it's amazing. It's like there's a dead cow, and they're like, again. Anyway, keep going, Alex's. we'll talk about that another time um so gross had actually made tape recordings of janet and he didn't believe that there was any trickery involved but there were a lot of people like magicians and ventriloquists that had spectated this whole thing and they had noticed some key things that they do with their career that janet may have done in order to kind of commit um uh-huh like the voice that she uses so janet was believed to be possessed every now and then by a man named bill wilkins so whenever there was an interview with the family and janet would

be possessed um bill had a habit of changing the subject when being interviewed a habit that janet had as well the voice that she would use was very low like i said gruff um rough around the edges and a lot of the vocabulary and phraseology that bill would use was the same as a child okay yeah and janet was actually as she was on the bbc scotland interview she was seen waving her hand but when she opened her mouth a disembodied voice was heard, and she covered it immediately. Oh. What? What did the voice sound like?

Like Bill. Bill Wilkins. Bill Wilkins. Yeah. So, Bill Wilkins. Yeah. So, evidence saying otherwise,

but the family, especially Gross and Playfair, still stick to their word in saying that they were haunted by an entity. It wasn't just the girls playing a prank. But unfortunately, whether or not that's true we'll never know i've tried finding more on what happened after 1979 nothing i've tried finding more as to like, if they've investigated more into it, nothing. Um,

all they've done is make documentaries about it or like mockumentaries as well. Um, they made, they made a mockumentary titled Ghostwatch in 1992. BBC aired it. It was very controversial. In March 2007, Channel 4 aired a documentary called Interview with a Poltergeist.

There was another... Mockumentary names are like some of the most dumb things I've ever heard so funny the things people like come up with because they think they sound cool yeah the only one I've heard of is an interview with the poltergeist have I watched it?

oh you've heard of that? I literally had never heard of that um there was like the sky living television series the infield haunting which i told you about in 2018 as broadcasted and then the conjuring 2 in 2016 2018 bbc radio 4 programmed the reunion um in 2023 last year another show called the Enfield haunting. Um, but nothing more in terms of investigation.

They tried to figure out what it was, but realize that it quite possibly could have just been a 13 and 11 year old girl and they gave up i honestly think that's that's what it is yeah so that is a story of the enfield poltergeist well thank you very much thank you guys listening. I was honestly like so disappointed because the conjuring too, it was really entertaining for me. I didn't, I didn't know if it was true or not, but like I saw the conjuring too, and it came,

it came out. And then I did like a little, like a little bit of research on that one, but I did more research on like Ed and lorraine more than anything yeah um and so when i realized i was doing paranormal case i was like oh i should do the enfield poltergeist blah blah and then and then i read everything and i was like oh it's funny but it sucks i think i also watched conjuring 2 like when it came out um yeah i haven't seen it like it came out what 2016 right you said yeah 2016 like eight years ago now so like i haven't seen it i didn't i didn't remember

it but like as you were telling the story i was like remembering the plot of the conjuring too uh it was kind of funny yeah yeah because like i i know in the movie they ended it off with like the movie's so exaggerated it's so funny they always are you know they always are yeah yeah they always are but like they're they're all based on some true things and honestly the conjuring 2 was based off of true things too because i they did they did say that or they did show that the girls were faking it in the movie yeah i i do remember that um but towards the end was when they drove into, like, the nun, you know? And so, like...

Yeah. But it's true. Because that's when... What's her name? The big nun lady reveals herself, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Never know her name and you have power over her. Yeah, that girl. Yeah. I can't remember the name. But yeah. I figured like... I don't know.

It would have something to do with paranormal. They would find some sort of history at the house. I tried doing research on Bill Wilkins. Bill Wilkins! And there was... It literally just talks about how he was possessing a little girl you know yeah fair wow but well thank you for sharing my story thank you for listening

that was very you guys enjoyed it i'm so sorry to anybody who loves the conjuring too i mean hopefully you still love it worse we can always redo episodes in the future like when we get to like 100 or something if people request them again that's true maybe a more in-depth about things but until then we got plenty more cases to cover. Yes, we do. Unfortunately. Well, yes, yeah. Is this what people call job security?

Oh, God. Oh, gosh. Oh, gosh. Just saying. Well. All right. Well, where are you taking us Jay get away Jay well well well I'm not actually

sure where I'm gonna take you I mean I know where I'm gonna take you I just don't know where um so I genuinely don't remember how i ended up researching this um not i was and as i was going through story after story after story after case i came up with this and then there's not a lot of information so i i have four small little cases

that are all have one thing in common okay um but this is where i get to ask you would you like me to walk you into it or would you like me to just blow you away you always blow me away jane oh this guy's gay don't make me blush um what do you feel alexis me you're gonna get you know i'm bad at making decisions that's why you're making the decision uh i will okay walk me into it okay cool you want me to walk you into it yeah walk me into it nice and slow australia oh my second favorite place no actually it's not it's canada no it's hawaii, it's actually New Zealand and then Canada.

I knew it was New Zealand. Got it. Cool. I'm taking you to Australia. There's not an exact date because it's kind of like it happened through a couple years. So imagine this, you're an older man or an older woman and you're walking with your friend, something just on the sand, large, larger than like you've ever seen before.

It's a whale. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. You said whale, whale, whale. And I was like, whale? I also texted you a whale emoji earlier today. No, did you?

You've been like setting it up in my mind. I have. So you're walking with your friend, you see a whale, and then you realize that the whale is dead. So it's a big whale. And you're like, oh, shoot. It's, you know, the 19, the 80, the 1890s. What the heck? Hey, I dare you to crawl into the whale.

What? I, I. What did you hear? Yeah. So it's like hey hey I dare you to walk into the whale and the friend walks into the whale

and then you dare your friend to stay in there for a set amount of time you walk away inside the whale yeah inside the whale that poor whale so basically that's what happened Yeah, inside the whale. Oh, hell no, bro. That poor whale.

So basically, that's what happened. Two men were walking on the beach. They found a dead whale. One of them told the other one to, I dare you to step inside and stay inside for like a set amount of time. They stayed inside. The friends left the person there. But when the other person came out, they were like, hey, my pain is gone. My rheumatism is gone.

So this is how the rumor... This is the rumor of the origin for the whale cure for rheumatism. Huh? The whale cure? Yeah. I know, like, Alexis is still, like, trying to compute.

She is. My brain isn't brainin'. So, from Australia... Yeah, so from Australia came the cure, the whale cure. And it was said that if you stand inside of the dead animal, or, like, at first it was said that if you stand inside of a dead animal for like at first it was standing we'll talk about what happens later um the aroma and you know the warmth of it would like cure your autism um it was kind of like therapeutic so word got got around in Australia and people started to go to dead whales.

I wish I was joking. You know what they say. I don't know what they say. You know what they say what? you know what they say? whale, whale, whale where do we so many desperate people climbed into the whale like it's a dead carcass it's like

a huge whale and there would be someone there to help you like they would cut a hole in the whale and you would have to dig yourself into the hole as deep as you could. And the patients were told to remain inside the carcass for 20 to 30 hours. God damn! That's so long! This is insane.

So for 20 to 30 hours, you were told to stay inside of the whale. You would have occasional breaks. But after those 20 to 30 hours, you would have 12 months of relief only 12 months yes for standing inside of a whale for a whole day no that's a scam

i mean people believe that it could help you for up to like a year. Of course, it's the dead whale on the beach. I found a really, really fun old like newspaper clipping talking about this thing. They interviewed a man. And he says that he was suffering from rheumatism. And then his friend was like, hey, what about the whale cure? He's like, no, like, that's bonkers. And then a while after, another whale washed ashore, also dead.

And he's like, hey, there's a fresh whale dead. What about now? And he's like, no, that's bonkers. Want to climb in it? Yeah. And the third whale, you want to climb in it? And the friend was like, there's a fresh whale, freshly dead. Would you want to?

And he's like, my rheumatism is getting worse. Why not? So they walk there. Fresh whale. Literally, I was going to say. Like, ooh. Like, do the little section here. Hold on.

Ta-ta-ta-ta. Okay, so some time ago, a whale was caught near Bega and I was advised to try the whale cure for rheumatism. Take a bath in the whale. Of course, Johnson and I, Johnson

ached more than I did, laughed at the idea. This is when they first rejected it. Another day, another whale the idea. This was when they first rejected it. That another day, another whale was killed, and I was worse. Again, the whale cure was suggested. At this time, I was beginning to think of it,

but didn't face it. That's the second reject. Again, a week later, a third whale came in, and I was getting worse still. So we decided to go over the next morning and get in. It's just

wild. The morning came, Captain Young was there in charge, and he kindly consented to... Where am I now? Oh.

Where am I reading? Oh. Where am I reading? I don't know. It's like weirdly translated. Not really translated, but it's like because it's an old newspaper, there's like not all the letters are in full. Okay.

We get ashore and I was carried to a hut near the trying down works. See, some of this doesn't make sense, but now it makes sense. They're on top of the biggest whale trying to cut a rib out was my fellow sufferer. Like the friend that he Johnson fellow sufferer.

Yeah. And to make the awful smell as horrible as if it was possible, he was singing at the top of his voice. When the rib was removed, they removed the whale rib. When the rib was removed,

after being disvested of all the clothes, they allowed me to borrow a pair of trousers. I was carried up and I was placed in the hole cut in the flesh. My instructions were to work myself down into the flesh as far as I could. And there stand until I felt too weak to put up with any more pressure then i would be dragged out dressed and warm dressed warmly and sent home so it's so weird yeah yeah well i did work my way down until i imagine every moment uh i did work my way down until I imagine every moment

I did work my way down until I imagine I was until I imagined every moment I was going right under you see there was room for two more men to stand beneath me because the well was just so big the well was about

seven the well being about 17 to 18 feet deep God damn What? What? I know whales are big But just like hearing 17 to 18 feet

And then picturing like three people Being inside of it Yeah I stood there for an hour and 20 minutes and just near me was my friend johnson who really seemed to enjoy the situation and kept shouting smart remarks across the rib that separated us like the 18 wild you don't wonder how big a whale rib is same though it's huge

go to like a museum of natural history or something also what's killing these whales man true lots of dead whales turning up literally whales lived for like 90 years you know what whales usually don't like wash on the shore Lots of dead whales turning up. Literally, whales live for like 90 years.

You know what? Whales usually don't like wash on the shore. Yeah. It's just wild. I'm telling you. Anyway, he ends up getting pulled out of the whale. He gets sent home. And then it says,

after four days, I walked up to town and everyone I met... Oh my gosh, I can't even read this. Anyway, long story short, he says the remedy did not last a year. Whoa, no way. Yep. He said it did not last 12 year. Whoa, no way. Yep. He said it did not last 12 months. So, you know, he was not satisfied with it.

I told you it was a scam. It was. It really was a scam. No way. Whales can't cure? Of the newspaper clipping and it's actually like because everything's drawn but it's actually really fun because it says that somebody's wife wanted to go down there and the husband the husband excuse me the husband said no and because the husband

said no um he forgot that the wife had a pair of, like, binoculars. So she used the binoculars to take a look in there. And it says that when she looked in there, she basically saw, like, people, like, dug into the whale. Oh. Like, it was, like, messy. Like, they actually dug into it yeah like they were like kind of like if you think of like flowers sprouting kind of like that's what they were they were like like an ostrich hibernating what hibernating sorry i know a lot about hostages. Anyways, continue. No, because

when they hibernate, they dig their heads into the ground. Oh. Oh, yeah, but kind of not like that. It's like the only thing you would see would be the head.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's crazy. would be the head. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. That's crazy. I have the newspaper. I have a couple newspaper clippings to show you. And if I cannot put them there for some reason because I have them in a Word document, I will send them to you after this. Oh, I can actually send them on the group chat.

That should be easier. Yeah. Oh, I guess I could have done the same with mike i mean we were able to see the picture that you sent us yeah yeah i'm gonna do it anyways but no that's fine okay i'm sending it right now just because it's a very it's a fun newspaper clip and you know how people used to draw them? Yeah. Yeah. So take a look at it. Well, I'm not over it. And there's also a picture of a man in the whale that I'm sending as well.

Which is just wild. Cause you only see the man's head stick out. Like they, they just dug little like burrow holes for the people. that's the way to explain like describe it they're like burrow holes yeah like that's terrible oh yeah yeah they're just carving out holes into this whale. Oh my gosh. 1800s. Like, this is not a crime.

It's a crime. It should be a crime. It's a crime against... These poor whales. Like, I get that they're dead, but leave the whale alone. But also, it's like the 1800s, right? Yeah 20 to 30 right so yeah yeah they did anything yeah um but this is what the other cases are going to be about dead whales oh

okay that's it there's no more information on johnson or the other people like that's the whale cure but that's not the only time of course that a dead whale has washed ashore um this is also this was the original thing that i was going to blow you away with um so now we're coming back to a more reasonable time that we can relate to. Not really because we're born. The 1970s. So we're going to Oregon. Yeah, 1970s. November 12th 1970

in Florence, Oregon. Now what ended up happening was that a 45 foot 8 ton sperm whale had beached itself on the beach and died. Okay. Now, due to the decomposition gases building up inside the whale, the authorities decided to dispose of the carcass. Okay.

How do you dispose of a whale carcass? Great question, Kai. carcass okay how do you how do you dispose of a whale carcass great question kai explosives oh my god yeah you gotta blow this whale up gotta blow up all that methane gas in the inside the whale yes remember how i said i could either walk you into the case or blow you away? Oh my god. Oh god. I was being literal about it. Oh my god. So the Oregon Highway Division was in charge

and they were responsible for the beaches at the time. So they decided to use 20 cases of dynamite. So they decided to use 20 cases of dynamite. Why do you get 20 cases of dynamite?

I don't know why the African Division had 20 cases of dynamite. They don't need it. They probably confiscated it from somebody and they wanted to use it and they're like yo you guys want to blow up the whale literally they blew up my time because normally what would happen when a dead whale washes ashore you can do two things you can either barrel like bury it or you can

send it back to the sea right i imagine you just push it back in the water. Yeah. That's normally what happens. What? It was normal. It had been so long since Florence, Oregon had a dead whale on their beach that no one actually knew how to deal with it. And because it was so big, it was 45 feet. Oh my god.

Yeah. They couldn't bury it and they also couldn't send it back to the ocean, so they thought let's blow it up. Now the logic behind it That's the logical solution. Well, the logic that didn't work out so well.

They said that the logic was that when they blew up the whale, there would be little chunks of meat everywhere and the seagulls could collect them. And any bigger chunks, they would be able to push back into the sea i guess that makes sense but then now you just have a bunch of exploded whale all over your beach yeah yeah so they ended, the news stations ended up showing up. People were like sightseeing and like spectators were there. And they told them, hey, we're going to blow up the whale.

You have to stand a quarter of a mile away from the whale for safety. Valid. So there was people, you know, bystanders just watching as they filled up this well with dynamite and lit this well up. So they went to bed. I'm sorry. This guy is dying.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Oh, okay. oh okay great case jay you always choose the funny ones for your like i wasn't sure what to cover and this came up and i'm like i'm exploding well i'm gonna cover that yeah you are smart so they filled up the whale with 20 cases of dynamite they exploded the whale and it sent a whale blubber and pieces flying through the air yeah some what happens they they tried to get the explosion to blow as much of it like they put all on one side, not on all on one side,

but they spread it around. So most of the whale would blow into the sea. Not enough. I guess it's good to plan out, but yeah. Could you imagine being like, like, no,

literally being like, okay guys, how can we make it so that this goes into the ocean and not on the land with us? Yeah, so they kind of tried. They were not very successful. A lot of them landed away from the beach. And a half-ton piece of blubber landed on a parked car. That's funny.

Parked over a quarter of a mile. And it crushed the car. Holy shit. That's pure gold. They told people stay a quarter mile away for safety. And the explosion sent the blubber, the meat, everything. More than a quarter mile away. Yeah.

Now, when this happened, something else happened. First of all, the chunks were not small enough for the seagulls. Second of all, the explosion scared away the seagulls. Yeah. Before the explosion, there was seagulls all over because there were

a dead whale. After the explosion, it the explosion, like, there was, like, seagulls all over, because they were, like, a dead whale. After the explosion, it was clear skies. No seagulls. Probably killed some of those seagulls. No, really? You can think of that. Too bad. You had a seagull just waiting for your meal,

and then getting hit. You're getting hit by a giant piece of blubber. Oh. getting hit by a giant piece of blubber oh this taste is comical bro this is like straight out of a cartoon i don't have like a newspaper clipping for this but there is a video on youtube because they caught it on film at the local like the local reporter caught office. Really? Whale explosion. Dude, that's insane. This was the 1970s,

so it got caught on film. People got, I don't know how many people got hit with whale blubber, but bystanders definitely it landed next to them at least. I just found a video. Yeah, me too.

The exploding whale incident. Oh, you can see just the blood mist coming down. All the blubber falling everywhere. Instead of like it's raining meatballs, it's raining blubber. Oh my god. It's raining, man.

That's crazy. Okay. Now, just to let you know, this was not the only well that exploded. What? Did they not learn their lesson?

So this was 1970s. Yeah. We're getting closer to a more time that we're aware of. 2004. My year. So in 2004 there was another exploding whale case solid i was like after i found one whale that exploded i found a second whale and i'm like

now i'm just gonna tell you about this they over 30 years later yep no that was like me last week when i hiccup having my cases in West Virginia. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This group was like, yo, remember when they blew up that whale like 30 years ago? They're like, you guys want to do that too? And they blew up another whale. So this time it takes place in Taiwan.

Okay. And it's actually not blown up with TNT. It's actually not even blown up on purpose. Oh. Yeah. Okay. Very similar. It's another sperm whale carcass that just got to the beach.

Uh-huh. Now this whale was bigger. This one was 56 feet long God damn It was a 15 whale It had been found dead on the beach And it was actually going to be transported Back into the city Where scientists

Intended to perform a Necrospe Necrospe Necrospe they wanted to like like yeah yeah yeah we like preserve it because it was such a big whale yeah um so i think it took three or four like big like construction like things to lift up the whale and put it on the truck to take it. And as the whale was being transported, gases from the whale were building up inside of the carcass.

And as they're going through the city, the whale just explodes. Because of magical gases building up. Yeah, it's what whales do. Now, this intros and blood hit everything. Yeah, it's what whales do. Now, this Intrust and Blood

hit everything. Shopfronts, cars, bystanders. Everything was a splash zone. You just go in about your day and bam, you get hit by a piece of whale blubber. Yeah.

A gut. Something hit you. Yeah. You know know there was basically no well to study afterwards um and the it was a big cleanup effort but everyone got covered by blood guts shot it went in stores they hit people i like to imagine just because i think it would be funny that someone's walking with a stroller like the kid oh no but at least covered with something um but people to you know leave alone yeah yeah what is this little laugh you've got going on i'm trying not to laugh hard i'm trying to contain it it's a funny case no one got hurt other than like slap by blubber that's good now now we're going to 2014 Okay

Not a well explosion Okay We're going back to Australia Got it Okay In November 2014 An Australian man He made headlines

For Something very risky and unusual. Oh. Risqué, okay. He climbed onto a dead whale and decided to surf on it. Oh, that's actually not really his fault.

That's not really, bro. That is radical. Yep. the man is Harrison Williams he was 26 years old at the time and he climbed on top of it and surf on the carcass it was initially

initially like a dare from his friends to swim out to the well but I think once he got there either it was another dare or like he decided to do it on his own so far out nothing happened to the man like the authorities just like condemned him for the act because it was like risk risky and there was like the risk for like injuries or like death or also whale also like sharks like sharks will swarm and feed on dead whales that are just sitting

in the water so like really dangerous for him to swim out there to a dead whale carcass yeah i haven't especially in australia so i have it that williams acknowledge the foolishness of his actions admitting that it was a stupid thing to do especially considering the danger was by sharks so he was aware yeah yeah yeah yeah so whales are just getting a short straw and we need to leave them alone yes we do yeah i do want to end up with notes um just a happy little thing that i i didn't not look for. I kind of just showed up on my Instagram because my phone heard that I was looking at whales.

They have finally photographed the first whales having sex and there were gay whales. Oh yeah. The two male. Yeah. I saw that. Yeah. Oh my God.

So proud. So that is whales. Wait, no, not homophobic. Homosexuality in nature. Bromosexuals. Not homophobia. What did you say? I said bromosexuals.

Oh, I thought you said promote sexuals. And I'm like, what? No, no, no, no. Bromosexuals. Yeah. That's whales. Yeah. I support it. I love it. We love whales.

Yes, we do. I speak whale. No, you don't. You're like Dory from Finding Nemo. Exactly. I am Dory. No, you're not. But that's whale whales Thank you for sharing I'm glad you enjoyed it Yeah it was good

I think floating whales Is one of the like Silliest things of this world I don't know I didn't realize how much I liked them Until I started researching this But then I much i liked them until i started researching this but then i realized i liked them because question mark whales are sick yeah whales are sick in a good way yeah yeah yes yes in the best way possible no but yeah so i'm actually glad that

you cover kind of a dark story so we could end with something light. Literally. We always do that, like, unintentionally. But it was like a relief. You're like, I have a dark story. And I'm like, I have a light story. I have a story. You have the, like, the segue middle ground story. Yeah. You get to calm us down and then, like, whoever's last either, like, makes the worst. Yeah. You get to calm us down and then whoever's last either makes the worst.

Oh, thanks. I didn't know I was chill like that. We're all part of the team here, you know? There's no I in team. Except for me. I don't like that we said that at the same time. You're good

well thank you for listening thank you we love you what? I was like episode 5 is of the books episode 5 is done and that's a wrap folks

that's a wrap if you like what you heard feel free to follow us on our social media done. It's done. And that's a wrap, folks. That's a wrap. If you like what you heard, feel free to follow us on our social media at Chambers of the Occult everywhere. Yeah. Check out our website. Yep. And if you have stories... Chambersoftheoccult.com

Yep. Check it out because, like you heard today, Kai covered one.is and i might cover another one soon yeah also i hope i did justice to your case um whoever suggested it i like i said i could have gone more in detail but i think i i i've left it at a good spot. Yeah, you went into enough detail. Send us an email. Let us know how Kai did. Feel free to roast the shit out of me.

Tell us how bad. Yeah, feel free to rate us. Specifically me. Leave Jay and Alexis alone. They do great. No, you can tell me how i did too but yeah any conjuring fans out there yeah yeah any conjuring fans tell me how i did i'm sorry if i ruined it i'm also a conjuring fan so i kind of ruined it for myself too

nah just a little bit it's still good they're still good movies yeah they're still good movies yes definitely entertaining yeah have you seen the the like the new nun that came out yeah the nun 2 yeah the nun 2 right that movie was so cringe was it a good watch like the new the nun that came out last year didn't we see it yeah we saw it um yeah but it's just so dumb like the plot the goat the demon goat the demon goat was my favorite fairy movie i ever watched in the theaters was paranormal activity oh my god i love paranormal activity like be there watching it on the big screen but it was like looking back i'm like why did i go but then again it was the first one and we didn't really know

what it would be so entertaining i love paranormal activity they're i just think they're funny movies they are yeah they are well thanks for listening wait wait i have one more thing to say before we end all right if she says something about joss hutcherson can you add in like a beep over it jay oh i will before we okay cool sounds good say it like a huh goodnight goodnight goodnight guys bye Thank you.