Chambers of the Occult - Episode #8 Cannibal Abroad and the Most Haunted House in England: Issei Sagawa's Crime and the Haunting of Borley Rectory

Episode Date: April 17, 2024

In this episode we explore two haunting tales that have captured global attention. First, we delve into the chilling story of Issei Sagawa, a Japanese student whose act of cannibalism in Paris shocked the world. We'll discuss the gruesome details of his crime, the aftermath, and his unnerving "celebrity" status in Japan.We then venture to the Borley Rectory in Essex, often regarded as the most haunted house in England. Discover the eerie tales of ghostly apparitions, spectral monks, and unexplained phenomena that have made the rectory a legendary site for paranormal enthusiasts.This weeks bonus, we'll touch on the mysterious green children of Woolpit, a medieval mystery of two children with green-tinged skin who appeared in an English village, their origins unknown.

Chambers of the occult may contain content that might not be suitable for all listeners. Hello. Hello. Hi. We tried to get our laughs out before we started recording, but they always seem to carry over. So yeah. That's fine with me. Welcome back to episode eight of Ambers of the Occult. Oh my gosh. Episode I can only count to four. Okay. Hey guys, I'm Kai. If you don't know me by now, that sucks for you. So I am Jay. I'm Alexis. Sorry, I'm in a sassy mood today. I know. Perfect. Perfect. They can only add more seasoning to the episode. Oh yeah. Yeah, I feel like this episode's gonna have a lot of seasoning, I don't know. Oh yeah. I feel like I'm gonna feel it.

I can't just have a good... I can feel it. Yeah. All right. I'm excited to show you guys this series. Anything you want to fill us in with, Alexis? I cleaned my desk this morning. Let's go!

Yeah. Yeah. Sick. That's about it. That's all the progress I've made. Now, before we get started, I just looked to the side and realized that I put this on the side to show y'all because I didn't show you before we started and I don't want to show you after. I got something. I'm going to turn my camera on so you can see. I got something I'm gonna turn my camera on so you can see And then just just cuz I felt It was a impulse by not gonna lie, okay

It's okay. I can understand that No, my god What is that? It's a one Alexis. Oh my god I love it. It's a fucking emu. Oh my god. Viewers can't see this so what it is, it's like an emu with like a black like body and neck but then it has like blue and green and like neon green, like puffy fur all around it. And it's a giant hand puppet. Like it goes all the way down to Jay's like,

like bicep. Like it's huge. Oh my God. Oh my God. That thing is sick. It has knees. Where are they? God damn. I'll post a picture on the Instagram so people can see it. That thing is sick. They have knees. Where are they?

God damn. I'll post a picture on the Instagram so people can see it. I've had this for a week, like a week and a half. What? Today is the first day that I realized, because I couldn't show you guys before. Oh, fair. Today is the first day that I realized that it squeaks. No.

Stop it right now. How much do you want for it? I feel like sharing this with me though. It's just that it's amazing. Alexis is our new puppet performer. Along with Jay. That's so good. Now that Alexis got her laughter out of the way, Kai and I, I feel like now we can start,

so we'll say goodbye to Mr. Emu for now. Goodbye Mr. Emu! Damn, that was so, like, not enthusiastic with that goodbye. What? What are you talking about? Bye Emu. Get the hell out of here, Emu. And now, Alexis... No, Kai is turning his on.

Starting this off. We should throw in Alexis at the start one of these days, and then she's gonna, like, yeah. And then it'll like, rhythm this her up. No, I don't think her up yeah personally I wouldn't know I think you have to it's two against one so yeah so I mean that's a majority to me yeah anyway What are you doing? Today I'm doing a true crime case. This one was suggested to me by another friend of mine. So it's a cool little case that I took an interest to. too. Before this, as always, trigger warning for those who are listening. Mentions of like

rape and sexual deviancy and stuff like that. So, viewer discretion always advised. So, for today's case, it might not be the longest true crime case we've had on the podcast so far, but there's definitely a lot to unpack with this one. Definitely a lot going on. So Issei Sagawa, do either of you recognize that name? I've heard of it. I think so. I don't know much. Yeah. Okay, cool, because I did not know much either before this case. So before I give you guys any

details about what this case actually is, I do just want to dive into a bit of Sagawa's early life. So he was born on April 26, 1949 in Kobe, Japan. He was born into a wealthy family, but did have lots of health complications immediately after birth. He was very small and frail because of his fragile health, lots of conditions that he had as a child, and he would honestly continue to be small and frail throughout his lifetime. I think as an adult he only was like four foot nine or something like that. Yeah, he was only four foot nine as an adult. And so he never really fully got to grow in a way. Yeah. But four foot nine, I don't know, pretty similar to someone else we know, I guess. But sorry, Sarah.

Sorry, Sarah. I'm gonna be reading this guy. Yeah, you're good. Because of his, I guess, fragility and general introversion, Sagawa grew up very reserved, even with his parents being public figures in the public view, which is how they got a lot of their wealth. So as Sagawa was growing up though, he kept to himself. So he also really dove a lot into literature and English literature specifically. He took on a very keen interest in all of that. So later on in his life when he was older, he would attend Wako University in Machida, Tokyo, Japan. So he went to university in Japan. He then moved on to the Kwansei Gakuin University to get his master's degree in English literature. So that's how much he actually, I guess, found

an interest in that subject. So to further his education, in 1977, he would move to France at the age of 28 years old. So he moved over to France, left Japan, and he was excited about being in this new place. And so he did move to France. Oh no. What? I think I know who this is. Okay. I mean, no, no, no. Like, genuinely, I think I have an idea. And even if I'm right, I know like, like, point B and that's it. Like, I don't know

the details. I don't know anything else. Okay. Well, you guys will learn some of the details pretty soon and they're, they're pretty gruesome. I feel like I always choose gruesome cases. I don't know. You do. You really do. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. I was going to say, I don't think there's much of a choice when it comes to true crime.

Well, actually there is. There's missing and unsolved and other stuff, but go ahead. That's true. But there's always some bit of like, like, brutality a lot of the time. We add, we have variety. That's what we have. We do. We do. So that's a way to put it. Yeah, so 28 years old, 1977, he moved to France. He moved there to pursue his PhD

in literature at Paris Sorbonne University. So he moved out there, but Sagawa did have an alarming childhood, not only because of his fragile health and things like that that I described, but it was also alarming because of the sexual deviancy and cannibalistic desires he experienced at such a young age. Aww. Yeah. The taste for human flesh. Exactly. I was gonna make a joke out of that, but I'm good. Yeah. So in a in a vice interview with Issei Sagawa done in 2011, Sagawa actually said that he first experienced his cannibalistic desires in the first grade after seeing the thigh of a young male.

Oh, that's really concerning. Yep, he just saw the thigh and he said, oh, I, you know, I- I want a piece of that. I felt these, okay, I mean, I wasn't gonna say that. I mean, yeah. I mean, like, that's basically, yeah. Um, that's really early. It is really early. First grade. Yeah. Like, imagine that. Five? Yeah. So first grade was only first experience like his desires. He also said that he committed bestiality with his dog.

He also said that he committed bestiality with his dog around that age as well. Not going to go into details with that, but Sagawa does talk a little bit more about it in that interview with Vice. But I'll leave it at that for now. Self-explanatory. Yeah. So his cannibalistic desires though would progress. They got worse. So Sagawa expressed that after seeing the thighs and ass, his words not mine, of a pale

skinned woman, he just wanted, he just needed to get a taste of her. Oh, great. So exactly what you said, Alexis. You wanted a bite. Did you know anything of his parents? What do you mean? Like, did they catch on or was it too late when they found out or how was their relationship with them? So it was pretty early on.

Like he kept it pretty, I guess, hidden from his parents as a kid. They didn't really like think much of it. But also his parents were like, you know, the type that was like, eh, probably too busy to care for their kid, right? Got it, okay. His father was like a businessman

who actually served as president of like a big like water industry company in Japan. Grandfather was like an editor for one of the largest newspapers in Japan. So they were like minimally involved. Probably. Yeah, that that's what it seems like. So they probably didn't really catch on to anything like that. But yeah, so at an early age, he realized he wanted a taste. And he said he didn't know why but he had an affinity for foreign women. Just their pale skin wasive to him. Something like that. No! Yeah. But like I said, these desires did not go away. They just got worse. When he was 24, while he was in Waco University, one time he said that he followed a tall German woman home, broken to her apartment.

Um, and his, like, his plan was to cannibalize her by slicing off part of her ass and, and then like, um, like sneaking away with her flesh. But as he, but as he woke or as he got in, um woke up and managed to like fight him off because he was a pretty small fragile man. Yeah, four or nine, right? Yeah, he was four foot nine. And this is when he was already in Paris, right? No, he was in Tokyo. He was 24. So that was before his move?

Before his move, yeah. So he was captured by the police and charged with attempted rape only. Because he probably didn't tell them. Nope, he did not. Of course, he's not going to tell them about him wanting to cannibalize this girl. That's insane. But the kicker about this is that the charges against him were dropped because his father paid out the victim because he was rich. Yeah. So I guess that's probably when his parents probably caught on a little bit. Maybe not necessarily to like the cannibalism part of it, but they knew that he was kind of a questionable child. Yeah. Do you know if, I don't know, it could just be a theory, if the dad maybe paid it off because

the dad had a reputation to uphold? Oh, well, almost 100% likely. Yeah. Like, he probably didn't even care about his kid and he was just like, oh, I need to pay this off so it doesn't get out there and ruin my reputation. Okay, because if they weren't really that involved until now, that kind of makes sense. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't really go into from the research I've done nothing really goes into much detail about their relationship with each other But just from putting together the pieces of it all it yeah, it just seems like his parents were never really involved too much Got it Yeah, so that was really the first

Case the the first time he tried to act on his cannibalistic urges, but unfortunately even after being arrested for it, it did not stop. So this would be the first of many? Yeah, first of many, or at least first of many thoughts. A bit of time would go by until he did, I guess, strike again. It was maybe a decent bit of time later. He was already moved to Paris at this time. So he was living in Paris when I guess the worst part of this case does happen. It was the day of June 11th, 1981. So he was in Paris at this time. He was 32. One sec, sorry. You're good. So he didn't really commit any cannibalism until he moved to Paris?

No. He did not, but I know in some reports, I believe in the interview, he did say that his cannibalistic urges did not go away once he moved to Paris. They were still as strong as ever. I mean, it kind of sounds like he'd try to act upon them before he moved. And then he. And then he got like scared off for a bit and then he moved away. Didn't try again for a while. But yeah, he did try again.

I guess the one that I'm going to mainly focus on was June 11th, 1981. He was 32 at that time. He was still in school at Paris-Sorbonne University, trying to go for his PhD at that time. It was nighttime. It was nights on the night of June 11th. And Sagawa invited one of his classmates over to his apartment. She was a Dutch woman, so a foreign student, a foreign lady. Her name was Renee Hardewelt. So Tagawa would invite Hardewelt over to his apartment.

He told her that they would be translating poetry together for a school assignment, and that was the guys that he invited her over under to have dinner with him as well at the apartment. Little did she know, Sagawa's plan was to kill her, eat her, um, and... and do some other things to her as well. Not translate poetry. No. Um, apparently he selected her because of, like, her beauty, because of her health, because he idolized these white women, essentially.

And, um, he sort of targeted people that he, that had characteristics that he felt he lacked. You know, he was, he was small, he was weak, he was ugly. And so he chose the opposites in order to, to feel a little bit better about himself. Yeah, who's his nico? Yeah. So there was a reason he selected those people.

Yeah, and these people, but Renee especially, there was a reason why he selected her for this. So, yeah, like I said, he was four foot nine. And the reason he said he chose her based off of these characteristics that he lacked was because when he was to eat her, he wanted to absorb her energy. Okay, we got one of those crazy people. Yeah, she was 25. So she was young and healthy. She was 5 foot 10 So yeah, but taller than him. Yeah Overnight by eating a fucking woman. Yeah, no

Yeah, and so in the interview that Sagawa did with vice he actually Completely details the entire process of murdering Renee. It's a very interesting watch. It is pretty dark. It's about a 30 minute long interview or so. It kind of details a bit of Sagawa's early life, a bit of, you know, his his first cannibalistic thoughts and things that he committed. It goes over his death or his his murder, his killing of Renee and the things that happened after that. It's actually pretty crazy because go ahead, Jay. I was going to say and he wasn't married or like in a relationship with anyone, was he?

No, he never was. Yeah, it's crazy because the way he talks about this, he doesn't... It's not necessarily him talking about it with pride, but like, he talks about it with eagerness. He's not like ashamed or scared of completely detailing what he did and why he did it. And there is a good reason for that. I'll bring that up a little bit later on. But yeah, he detailed that, like after she arrived, she began like reading poetry on his desk, but her back was turned to him.

And that's really how he started to, you know, muster up the confidence, I guess, for this process. With her back turned to him, he pointed a rifle at the back of her neck. She was blissfully unaware. He apparently had, you know, during his time in Paris at Sorbonne, he said that for a time, almost every night, he would bring a prostitute home and try to shoot them. But quote, for some reason, my fingers froze up and I couldn't pull the trigger. So what? This wasn't the first time he tried to do it. But this was the first time that actually

succeeded. With with Renee's back turned towards him, he would pull the trigger and shoot her in the neck in the back of the neck with a rifle. So yeah. So Sagawa said that he actually like fainted after the shock of shooting her. But you know, he like woke up and he realized that like he had to continue on. You don't have to continue. You don't have to do anything, sir. He doesn't have to but I mean, at this point, he had already killed someone and now he wanted to go through, you know, with all of his terrible ideas. But in the interview, he details that after he shot her, she actually like, hawked for a little bit longer, like just a few more

words until eventually she just slumped down into a silence. So it wasn't an immediate death. She was probably still alive for a few seconds before she like bled out or whatever it may have been. Yeah. Oh, the apparent confusion she must have had for that second. So Sagawa detailed that initially she just slumped down with her head onto the desk and then as her body began to fall even more, it slammed onto the ground, bringing the chair down she was sitting in with her. So now her head was, you know, on the floor, her body was sprawled out. And there was the blood starting to come from her head.

He said that he quickly put a towel underneath her head to try and, you know, clean up some of that blood. So. He managed to he managed to finally kill her. Yeah, he managed to he managed to finally kill her. And after this was when he would undress her, he would sprawl her body out more and eventually would rape her as well. He committed this terrible, terrible act. And his cannibalistic desires only got worse from there. So at this point, he was now on a mission, essentially.

He had the idea that he needed to taste her, to eat her, cannibalize her. To take those qualities from her. Exactly. First off, you said... And I assume that... What? It was... I mean, I was going to say, I assume that she was also a foreign student, so he's like, he's not going to go home to someone. Yeah.

That's like, he's not going to go home to someone. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, she was a Dutch woman. So I guess not necessarily like too far, but yeah, she was still a foreign student as well. So Sagawa, like in the interview, he said that first he wanted to eat some of the most, I guess, appetizing or attractive parts of her. The first thing was her ass. Again, his words, not mine. Yeah, I'm sure. At first, he just tried to bite right into her. But he actually said that he could not bite into her skin because his teeth weren't sharp

enough and his jaw started to hurt and got sore because he just couldn't manage to bite through her. So he said that he gave up, he left his apartment, went to the local market and purchased a long like curved meat knife. So a big butcher's knife. He would go back to her body and would start to slice open her her butt, her thigh, because those were the most appetizing parts first. In the interview he's actually, he said that he was surprised because he cut into her and he just expected to immediately see the red meat, but he was surprised and slightly grossed out when he

saw the gelatinous yellow substance, which he later found out was her fat. What else do you expect, sir? I mean, he you expected me obviously. Yeah and so he said he had to stab down a lot farther than he really wanted to just to get to that red meat. And when I learned that I was just like dude, I was like what is your thinking here? Like I guess you're not thinking, but how do you just not realize that? He described it as a yellow corn-like substance, I believe, in that interview. And I'm just like, that is such a weird comparison.

And the fact that he kept going after that. One thing I forgot to mention is that he specifically started with her her right butt cheek I guess for lack of a better word he wanted to have her left one he wanted to avoid the left one at all cost the right one was the perfect one because his her left one was closer to her heart and he was very scared of blood. What? Yep. He was disgusted by blood. And I don't. Yeah, he used a gun. Yeah.

I don't understand that. Bro really thought that like, there would be no blood involved, there would be no fat, he would just get right to meat. I don't know. That's... Oh my god, this bro. no fat, he would just get right to meat. I don't know. That's... Oh my god, this bro. Yeah. So Sagawa said that he would cut out like the best parts of her meat, like her

thighs, things like that, and he would put them in the fridge and save them for later to eat. No. He wanted to kind of like save the best for last type of thing. This is not a deer. This is a... It's... You saying it's not a deer like brings up imagery into my head because in the interview they showed some pictures of the meat that he cut out

from her body like on plates. Honestly being gathered sort of like how you would gather like deer meat or something. And as throughout the process of him consuming her body, he would take pictures. And so there are some pictures out there of Renee, no of Renee, of her body. So there are pictures out there of her like cannibalized body and I have seen one of them and it was, I don't know, something I thought I'd never have to see. It was, yeah, there was like whole chunks out of her. I won't say more, but... No fair. I'm not gonna ask for more. He would eat parts of her either raw or cooked. It didn't really matter to him, I guess. And yeah, he would just eat whole parts of her and it was terrible. So in the interview,

he actually has a book of pictures of like his old college apartment when he was in France. And he literally points out the pictures and says, Oh, this is the bathtub, the shower where I cut up her body. This part on the wall is where I hid the rifle after I killed her. And again, he just talks about it so openly and eagerly that it almost doesn't feel real when watching this interview. I'm sure there's... Yeah. So he, I guess, feasted on her for a few days.

I guess feasted on her for a few days. But once her body started to decompose, that's when he attempted to actually get rid of the remains. So he stuffed her like dismembered body parts into two different suitcases that he carried. And he was going to dump the remains in the lake at Bois de Boulanger Park in France. So he got a taxi to literally drive him to the park, holding these two giant suitcases. I think he said that the taxi driver was sort of suspicious

but didn't really ask anything. Sagawa said he went to the park at around 8 p.m. But that was an oversight by him because it was still the summer in France and the sun was still up at 8 p.m. It was still bright and he didn't realize how bright it would be at 8 p.m. with people still like sunbathing, people still being out and about in the park. So he was actually pretty quickly caught by the police and arrested by the French police during trying to dump these body parts.

Do you know who told the police? What? Sorry. Do you know who called the police? Um, I don't know. It doesn't say I also don't know if the police were exactly called. I think it might have been that just like they were at the park. Yeah. And they were in the scene. Yeah, they were in the they were in the vicinity and either they saw him or people nearby saw him and they just like ran over and alerted the police. So he was caught very quickly.

Yeah. Okay, the whole say something. Yeah, thankfully people did. Yeah, so this was the start of a long legal process for Sagawa. Of course, his father being the rich, wealthy man that he was, provided a lawyer for two years in France. Those two years he was awaiting trial. But at the end of this trial, Sagawa was actually deemed legally insane

and unfit to stand trial. In actuality, it really wasn't a good thing because instead of being tried for his crimes, he was just ruled legally insane and therefore was not guilty of the crimes that he committed, essentially. So what happened to him? So he was unfit to stand trial. It was ruled by the judge at the time. He was ordered to be held indefinitely in a

mental institution in France. So he was held there eventually. I think during that time he was actually visited by an author who took like Sagawa's account of the murder and then published a book on it. Sagawa does actually have a few books published about these murders, which I'll get into again a little bit later on. And that's why there's so much detail about it. Exactly. So, eventually the French authorities didn't really want to deal with him anymore. They couldn't deal with him, you know, just being held in this mental mental mental institution, because ultimately they did want him punished. So they deported him back to Japan.

Was there another trial in Japan? He got deported back to Japan and then was just immediately committed into another mental hospital there. Okay. A psychiatric hospital in Tokyo. So the most, I guess, I don't want to say the most interesting part of this case though, but the most incredible part of this case, that's not the best word, but the psychologist and the psychiatrist in Japan all declared him sane when he was there. And they deemed that like sexual perversion was just the motivations for the murders. So eventually he was like, let go from the mental hospitals.

And I guess would be charged instead for his crimes. The thing was is that since Sagawa was deported from France, France dropped the charges on him and they closed the court documents. They were sealed. These court documents were not released to the Japanese authorities, who then had no legal basis to arrest this man, because there was no record of the crimes that he committed. Bro, what? I don't like that. No. No, it's not.

I mean, I can't find the words for it, but that's the only thing I can say right now. No, like, I can't find the words for it. But that's the only thing like I can say right now. No, right. And that was me literally, as 10 seconds ago, when I was like, trying to find that word. It's just, yeah, it's insane. It's insane. Um, thank you. I don't know, loophole. A literal loophole. Yes. Like the The documents were sealed from France. They couldn't give them over to the Japanese authorities. So the Japanese authorities had no record of this crime, which meant they could not try him for it. So Sagawa got checked out. He remained a free man until his death in November of 19 or sorry November of 2022. So pretty recently. Oh, recent. Yeah. Wow. November 24 2022 is when he did pass away. So that is so recent. Yeah. Was anyone like keeping track of him?

Or I mean, I assume not because there was no trial or anything, but. Actually, I not not, I guess, privately keeping track of him, but he became a public sensation. Yeah, I he made his living by being recognized as The the grandfather of cannibalism essentially he profited it off of this. He profited off of it. Yep Oh, that is so achy He he was released. Yeah, he was you know checked out of hospital in 1986 and for really the next 10 years Yeah, he was, you know, checked out of hospital in 1986. And for really the next 10 years or so, he was invited to be guest speakers, commentators. He he was invited to be a part of like sexual voyeurism films.

Oh, like, so, yeah he did, oh Alexis is gone. Hopefully she comes back. Yeah, no, he wrote books about the murders, like going in detail. Hello? Are you back? Yeah, I'm back. Okay. Do you know how many books he wrote?

I think he has four books out about the murders. I am not reading a single one of them, even though he's dead. I'm not sure what the actual titles of all of them are, but there's definitely a few books that he wrote about the murder. At one point, he was also invited to do restaurant reviews for a Japanese magazine. Oh, which is like, which is insane. Much as I hate the sound of this, I know people would show up if they heard that he came to review food.

Yeah. Because, yeah, oh. Yeah, so he made a living for his infamy as this cannibal. He became known as the Kobe cannibal. That's one of his names. So he made a living out of this. And in the interview, like he says that, or in different places, he says that like it was like the most cruel punishment being known as a Cannibalist or a cannibal and a murderer while also trying to build his life again

And I'm like you like you do not have the rights to call that a cruel punishment and feel sorry for yourself You murdered a woman. Yeah, and those are the results for your actions the consequences for your actions No, exactly It blows my mind it blows my mind about how he got away with this but also what he made out of it after I Don't know There's this one There's this one quote from him Um... I don't know. There's this one quote from him, from an interview of him talking about after he killed Renee. And he says,

This must sound rich coming from me, but the moment the girl became a corpse, I realized that I had lost an important friend and even regretted killing her for a moment Well, I Said he said what I truly wished was to eat her living flesh Nobody believes me, but my ultimate intention was to eat her not necessarily kill her I Don't understand that I don't understand Doesn't make sense. No, yeah, it's actually it's actually insane.

Like he said that it was simply just a fetish, you know, like he just wanted to have a little taste. It was never anything about like actually consuming the meat or actually killing. He just wanted a taste of a beautiful woman's body. Um. Sir, I don't believe you. I mean, I do, because he obviously wanted a taste, but at the same time, I'm like, mm. Mm hmm. No, yeah. In the interview, he was asked, do you still have these cannibalistic urges? And so this was the 2011 interview with Vice. And he said, oh yes, definitely. The desire to eat people becomes so intense around June when women start wearing less and showing more skin. Yeah, and so he just goes about more into detail like that. It's like he never stopped.

He never stopped and this man- He talked so freely about it. Yes, like this man was just allowed to live. it's insane like live out in our society um do you think he was i don't know i'm trying to like make sense of him talking so publicly about it and if he has profiting off of it i guess it would make sense for him to talk about it uh But I still don't like it. Yeah, of course not. Yeah. He would also be like, like back when there were, I guess, other murderers or other cases involving like young girls and things like that, people would like flock to his house or wherever

he was to like ask for his opinion on cases. And so he was almost seen as a mini celebrity by people throughout this time. I don't know, there's this one, there's a newspaper clipping the Los Angeles Times and figure out when exactly it's from. Not sure, but yeah, it's like a Los Angeles Times newspaper. And it talks about Issei Sagawa. It's like the headline is, soft-spoken cannibal is a minor celebrity walking free in Japan. The headline is soft-spoken cannibal is a minor celebrity walking free in Japan. Though it goes into about how he's written books, how he's widely known on television and in the media. He says, quote, he has shown up in compromising poses in pornographic magazines.

Yo, what? Yo! What? Like he did everything. He took full advantage of his celebrity status for murdering a girl. And so many people didn't even blink an eye at it. Insane. And it's so wild because it's one of those cases where like, if he never left France, he would have been in an institute till he died. But he kind of got away with it when he got back to Japan. Yeah, no, he 100% did. He 100% did get away with it. He does say that really, like, the people of Japan did have a disdain for him. You know,

they didn't, most of them did not like that he was allowed to walk free, but nobody could ever do anything about it, of course, because there was no crime. Like, on record, there was no crime that he could had committed. So the only way they would be able to ever jail him or investigate him was if he had committed another crime, which he never did. So people in Japan, you know, were embarrassed about him or bitter about the fact that he was left to walk free. But of course they could never do anything about it.

It's frightening because you know that this man has a craving for human flesh and he's walking, he was walking amongst people. Yep. And they were aware of it, which kind of, I don't know, I feel like the fact that they're aware of it, that he's walking amongst them makes it worse. that they're aware of it, that he's walking amongst them, makes it worse. In this article, this newspaper clipping, like it says that Sagawa insists that he will never kill again, and a quote from him says, it is impossible. I have the fantasies, but to kill is horrible. It is different from a fantasy."

And I'm like, bro, but you killed already. What do you mean, but to kill is horrible? I don't know. I guess how I'll end this is that with a little bit more from this newspaper clipping, it says, is, the public has made me the godfather of cannibalism, and I am happy about that. I will always look at the world through the eyes of a cannibal. I don't give him any title other than horrible person. Good. Yeah. I don't either. But there's the story of Issei Sagawa. Thank you for sharing. Thank you. I knew very

little of this story and the amount of information that you provided was just shocking. Yeah, I was watching that Vice interview and he started talking about like he was detailing how he was like, you know, cutting her body and stuff like that. And then like, bam, picture of her like, cannibalized was just put onto the screen. I was like, Whoa, I was like, I was like, okay, like this is insane. I know I did click on this interview to watch it, but still. Yeah, no, I'm sure. Not what you expected. No Yeah

I don't know if you guys feel like watching it. It is it's a vice interview is called interview with a cannibal Okay, it's pretty good I was told about it. I hadn't watched it. Yeah, I've seen that. Well, I've seen like the cover of it, but I've never watched it. Yeah, and now, you know, thanks for you telling us about it because now I know what you're prepared for going into that. Yeah. Oh, sorry. And I guess I'd end them, if I use that word properly. He has lots of books published. In 2011, he did say he recently published his 20th book. And I'm sure he's published more. He said that he likes to try to publish one or two books a year. So about like murder, different fantasy.

He uses his real name, like he did not hide that way. I don't accidentally buy one that has like a fake name, like a pen name or something, you know? Yeah. No, this guy, like, like I said, he he took advantage of what he did and he made a living off of it. So yeah, he did. The surprising thing though, like while doing this research, I never, I guess I never really got anything from like the

parents of Renee, the victim. Like there's, there's never really any coverage that ever happened. So everything is surrounding him rather than everything surrounding him. Yeah, that's sad. Oh, it is. It really is. Yeah. Well, anyway, that's my story.

All right. Thank you for starting us off with that. I tried. Oh, and you succeeded. Yeah. And now it's my turn to follow up. What do you have for us? So, I don't know. I don't know necessarily how to feel about this case.

Like, I don't, I don't, I don't know. I don't know. We'll just, we'll see. So we're going to England, baby. England. Whoa! What are you covering? Yeah. So I don't know what you're covering. I don't know what you're talking about. I want to know what you're covering. I am covering the Borley Rectory Haunting. So interesting name. What is that word?

Borley Rectory? Yeah, the second one. Yeah. So Borley is a village in Essex, England, and then Rectory is basically like a church. Oh, okay. Yeah. That's like the best way that I can... It's a British church, I'm assuming. That's what I found out when I looked it up, because I had to. But this takes place in Essex, England, the village Borley. I'm not sure how it's pronounced, but the house was built in 1862 for a rector. A rector basically is like a pastor in a way.

And his family. And it was also declared as the most haunted house in Essex. So yeah, this house was actually investigated. Yeah. I'm just a little tangent because I know people call places like the most haunted house here and like the most haunted like thing here and there is their least haunted house. My house. It's curious. I was like, because there's usually the most haunted.

But like, does anyone advertise themselves as the least haunted blank? It's the most normal house in America. Yeah. In the world. Yeah. Love that, dude. OK, keep going. OK.

So this house was actually investigated by a psychic researcher. His name was Harry Price. Yes. You know his name? I've heard the name. I don't know. Yeah. Anything. I have mentioned Harry Price in one of the previous episodes I've covered. Okay. I really. Yes. Okay. Okay. I sounded familiar to me, but I didn't know where I knew. I'm so glad you're covering like a case that was one of the first cases

we did. Right. It was very early on. Yeah, it was one of the first cases we did, right? It was very early on. Yeah, it was one of the very first early cases. And the only reason I'm happy is like he can be his own story, but I don't want to just for him. I'd rather just focus on the case and then bring him in. This guy is interesting. Yeah, no, I know I recognize the name. I just didn't know what I recognized it from.

But I guess I know. That's cool. Okay. Well, this house was pretty famous. Unfortunately, it was damaged in a fire in 1939. And eventually it was demolished in 1944. So it's no longer able to see at all. But it was a pretty cool house. It was kind of like a Gothic style house. And it was believed to be haunted for as long as the house had been built. So again, from 1862, there had been a lot of reports, but they doubled in 1929. after the Daily Mirror had published an article talking about Harry Price coming to visit the house and he even wrote two books supporting the claims. Yeah. Real quick about him.

Yeah. Harry Price investigated Jeff the talking mongoose. Yes. That's what it was. That's why the name is familiar, because it's Harry and Jeff. Okay, yeah, okay, there we go. Let's go! Oh my god.

Let's see, Harry, what are you doing here now? Well... Now we really need that puppet. Yes. Yeah, we Yes. Okay. So, I guess he had written two books about the house, just talking about the paranormal activity that he found within it. But there are a lot of reports that Price had made.

And these reports had prompted the Society for Psychical Research, I'm going to call them the SPR, because that's a big company name. And- Okay, okay. I know of them too. Sorry to- Yeah, I've mentioned them in one of my past cases too.

But they performed a formal study on the house, and the study revealed that these sightings that people had were simply either imaginary or fabricated. So before I get into that, I do want to go a little bit over the history of the house. So again, the Borley Rectory was built in 1862. It was built by a Reverend named Henry Dawson Ellis Bull. And what are British people's names, man? The house is built on Hall Road. And it was actually built nearby to the Borley Church at the time. Bull, he had made he had moved into the house. And he actually moved in after being named rector of the parish for a year. Again, rectors like a pastor, but

it's an interesting way to call them. The house where the house was built. There was actually another house before it that was also a rectory, but it was destroyed in a fire in 1841. And as Bull was constructing the home, he actually made it a lot bigger by adding a wing. Forget this, his family of 14 children. This guy had 14 kids. 14 kids? Shit. Bro, that is insane. From one wife?

That, that didn't tell me. So, but I'm, I'm assuming not. I feel sorry for that wife. Same. I see most, most. Oh my God. Those, all of the wives, I don't know, man. Yeah, however many there were. Old timey, like a Nick Cannon, I don't know.

It's such a fix. Just like him for real. Okay, so the church nearby was actually rumored to have been built around 1362 and it was rumored to be known as the Benedictine Monastery. Yeah, Benedictine. Benedict G. Yeah. And well, the story of this is not so sick. It's actually a story of a monk who formed a relationship with a nun from a nearby convent.

And after being discovered, the monk was executed and the nun was bricked up alive in the convent walls. Isn't this some American horror story shit? Isn't the entire point of being a monk and being a nun that you don't get married? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and celibacy and all that stuff. Okay, yeah. I mean, you do you but like all that stuff. Okay. Yeah.

I mean, you do you but like, I mean, that's what you sign up for. So there's some things I could say right now, but I'm not going to say that. Okay. Um, well, this whole story had became really well known. Eventually was debunked in 1938, as there was actually no no history of what it was before. So it was believed to be made up by one of the rector's children, or the rector's children to kind of romanticize their house a little bit, I guess. I don't know.

How is that? Okay. I wouldn't want to have my house like that. No, I don't think anybody would. Um, but as I mentioned, it was known to be haunted for as long as I was a bit built. So I'm going to get a little bit into the hauntings. So it goes back to 1863. There was reports from like a few locals of unexplained footsteps in the house spooky. Oh my god. Oh my god. And then four of the bulls, four of the daughters of

bull had actually reported seeing a ghost of a nun at twilight about 40 yards away. 40 yards away converted into feet is 120 feet by the way, in case you're curious. Thank you. Because only America uses feet. Yeah, yeah. But- That's why we're superior.

Anyway. Because we do math. Oh wait, bro, just do math. Oh, wait, bro. Just said that. But 120 feet. Yeah, 120 feet away from the house. And as they attempted to communicate with this spirit, it would gradually just disappear.

Then, yeah, that happened July 28 1900. And then several people would report having witnessed these events for the next four decades. People would actually report seeing a phantom coach driven by two headless horsemen. That's sick. Yeah, that is really sick, right? I don't know. I thought that was cool. And then in 1892, Bull had passed away and he left the parish to his son, the Reverend Henry Harry Foister Bull. Jesus Christ. Oh my God. Yeah. So Harry Bull, he was now the rector of the parish, but then he passed away on June 8, 1927, which led the Borley Rectory to be vacant. So after a year of the house being completely empty, on October 2, 1928, Reverend Guy Eric Smith and his wife moved into the home.

And Smith's wife was actually cleaning out the cupboards. And this was shortly after they had already moved in and she came across this brown package. And inside of it was a skull of a young woman. No. No. Yeah. No. I'm out.

Maybe not. She. Maybe not. Thank you. She also claimed to have seen a horse drawn carriage at night. And then the Smiths, both of them would report hearing the sound of a worker bell ringing,

even after it being disconnected and then unexplained footsteps as well as lights appearing in windows. They had actually eventually contacted the Daily Mirror newspaper asking to be put in contact with the SPR, the Society for Psychical Research. And the newspaper had sent a reporter. And this reporter wrote the first of several series of the articles that would go into detail of the house, the mysteries of it on June 10, 1929. And they eventually arranged for a paranormal researcher, Harry Price, to visit the home. He made his arrival on June 12th, and as soon as he stepped into the house, immediately, there was stones being thrown, vases being thrown, as well as other objects.

There had been a message tapped out from the mirror frame, which was believed to be left behind by his spirit. And yet as soon as price left the house, everything completely stopped. And so welcome. Smith's wife actually thought that it was price that was causing all those things to happen, not a a spirit as price was as an expert magician at the time Like he would bring his own spirits to cause him like You know, he had some tricks up his sleeve, you know what I'm saying come July Dude I've always wanted to do that. But I don't have a rabbit.

Where do I get a rabbit? Where do you not get a rabbit? In the rabbit store. True. There's a rabbit store around the corner. I'll just go. Literally. They're usually called pet shops nowadays, Alexis.

I know them as the rabbit store. You're okay. That's where I go. They got what you need. So July 14, 1929, the Smiths completely left Borley overall, which actually led the parish to struggle trying to find a replacement. And then on October 16th, 1930, a first cousin of the bull, Reverend Lionel Algernon Feuster, his wife Mary Ann, Jesus Christ, and their adopted daughter Adelaide. Adelaide is such a cute name. I love that name. Anyways, it is. Yeah, so Lionel, Mary Ann, Adelaide, they moved into the home. And from the time that the family moved in, again 1930, until October 1935, Lionel Feuster would write basically everything that would happen, all the strange events

and he would send them to Price. All these events that Feuster would write down were things that people had even witnessed in the past. Some things like the sound of a bell ringing and stones and vases being thrown. But there was one thing, a couple things actually. The family had also witnessed windows shattering, wall writing and their daughter Adelaide being locked in a room with no key. Did you say wall writing? being locked in a room with no key. Did you say wall writing? Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of sounds like asmophobia.

Do you know what was being written on the walls? I do, actually, and I'm going to save that for later. But thank you for asking. Guys, I have something to admit. Yeah, what do you have to admit? I thought you said wall writing, like, like, like, like, like, like, yeah, like writing on the wall, not like writing on the wall. Okay, I'm sorry. No, no, this is this is on me. This is my fault. Like, No, no, this is on me. This is my fault.

Like, I want a clarification. It's paranormal. It could be. No, that's the thing. Like, was there a spirit, like writing on the wall or some shit? Like, I don't know. Yeah. Cause when you're like, when you're covering a paranormal case, it very well

could be wall writing. Like, like, like, like walking on the walls and shit. I don't know. I have my fault, my fault. All right, continue. I hate you. Okay. Well, writing and their daughter Adelaide being locked in a room with no key.

And then Mary Ann actually told her husband about certain events that would happen, even her being thrown from her bed by what she believed to be a poltergeist. attacked by something horrible and an attempt to get rid of it Boister tried to perform it an exorcism twice and in the middle of the first exorcism he got struck in the shoulder by a stone that was the size of a fist and Both it Yeah, so didn't really work out for him But good try, I guess. Oh, okay, sure. Yeah, I'll give it, I'll give him that I guess, you know, like you tried homie.

You just didn't quite succeed. And I feel like- Honestly, she didn't just throw it on the walls. I don't know. Yeah, maybe right back to them. True. Ask them why. Okay, so the Daily Mirror, they were covering this case pretty often and it attracted the

attention of a lot of paranormal researchers. And after these researchers had investigated, they all unanimously came to the conclusion that these incidents were caused by Mary Ann consciously or subconsciously. So Mary Ann later was stating that she believed her husband was actually the cause of some of these incidents. And she even believed that one of the paranormal researchers was with her husband

kind of doing these things. And later it had been revealed that there was a sexual relationship between Mary Ann and a lodger named Frank Perlis. And Mary Ann admitted- Yeah. The only reason I'm saying that is because I kind of expected it to go that way. Yeah. Um, she admitted it and she, she said that she would actually use the phenomena that would happen in the house to, the way to cover up

her affair. It's an M. Yeah. And then eventually, Lionel Forster, he grew ill, which led the family to leave Borley in October 1935. Now, I am going to get into the investigations that were done by Harry. Yeah. So after the foyers had left Borley, the rectory remained vacant for some time and price actually agreed to a year long rental with the owners of the property, Queen Anne's Bounty. And The Times, a newspaper in England, had actually printed ads on May 25th, 1937. And in response, Prince actually recruited 48, quote, official observers, end quote, most of them being students.

And these students would spend- 48? Yeah, 48 students. Well, some of them being students, some of them were just regular people, but the students would spend their weekends and their free periods to go into the house and report any phenomena that would occur.

That's crazy. That is crazy that you have 48 people do all of this. It also sounds like it'd be that location where you would get Dare to go into if you wanted to be part of the Cool Kids. True, yeah. So I can see why so many kids went in there. Yeah. One of the, so Price had a lot of helpers,

of course, like you said, 48. One of them, S.J. Glanville, had a daughter named Helen Glanville, and Helen performed a planchette seance. Do you guys want me to explain what a planchette seance is? Isn't that- What did it hurt to? Yeah. Set? Yeah.

Go ahead. There might be listeners. Any listeners who don't know? Yeah. Yeah. So there's two things that it could mean. There's one, the basic that we know of, Ouija board, a planchette. It's like the clear circle in the middle so you can see the letters on the Ouija board and communicate with the spirits

And then there's the other plan chat sounds where it's just a plain um kind of blank planchette Mm-hmm, and they would use it For the spirits to draw or write something down It's like oh my god. I'm giving her it. Yeah, I was gonna say I'm giving my North Turk feel right now. Honestly, go for it. No, that's copyright information. Not like you're gonna give it again. Like, it's not like you're gonna give it again, so might as well do it one last time. True, true. Oh my god. I can't, it's so surreal that it's gone.

For me at least, I don't know. Anyways. People who don't know, like what the fuck are they talking about right now? We can leave it a mystery. Planchet seance. Yeah. Bill Brighton. Yeah, they'll write in. Helen Glanville, she performed a planchette seance in Streatham, London in March 1938. And it was reported by Price that Helen had actually came into contact with two spirits.

One of them being a young nun who identified herself as Marie Lair. And according to the story, Marie was a French nun that left her religious order to travel to England and marry a member of the walled grave family. And legend says that she was murdered in an older building on the site of the Borley rectory and her body was believed to be either buried in a cellar or thrown into a well. And the wall writing writing that I was mentioning earlier, actually read it read Maryam, please help me get out. And it was believed to be written by the nun. And then there's the other spirit that Howard is in contact with.

He identified himself as Sunix Amures. Yeah. And he claimed that there was bones of a murdered person that would reveal themselves as well as he would set the Boile Richter on fire on the night on that same night at nine o'clock, March 27th, 1938. And now there was a fire, but it happened less than a year later on February 27th, 1939 with the new owner, Captain W. H. Gregson. He was unpacking like normal. And this is shortly after he moved in. And he accidentally bumped into an oil lamp

that was in the hallway. And immediately it just caught fire. Holy shit. But the weird thing about it was that the house had never been connected to gas, electricity or even water. And so the fire spread so fast that it caused so much damage. And when they had done an investigation on the fire, they came to a conclusion that the fire was started deliberately. And it was never. Yeah, it was never told who started the fire.

They never investigated it or anything like that any further. They just left it as that. That like he just bumped into a gas lamp and it? Yep. It just caught fire. All right then. And as the house is burning, a local from the Borley Lodge, Miss Williams, said she saw a ghostly nun in the upstairs window. And as a reward for sharing her story, she demanded

I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing this right, Guinea, which is like British gold coin. OK. Guinea, which is like British gold coin. Okay. And then price, he went into the house after it had gone through the fire and he actually performed like a, like a brief dig in the cellar in August, 19 three. And they found bones of what they believed to be a young girl. And so they took the bones and they gave them like a Christian burial, uh, and the listed churchyard after they were told by the parish that they would refuse to allow them to perform a ceremony as they thought the bones belonged to a pig

Whoa what this is the weirdest case I've ever read in my Delay on J and I's reactions for that I was like what yeah They're really like I was trying to like process what I heard. I'm like, did she say pig? Yeah, I was like pigs. And I was like, huh? I don't think you guys understand. I literally tried researching this case this morning, bro.

I had to read these sentences like a million times for me to be able to process them. Because I was like, this is freaking weird. Yeah, what the hell? I know that, you know, them to deny that burial because they thought that there are like another religion or like another race or something, but like a pig. I don't know what's going on with this. That's why I was like, I don't know how I feel about this case.

I don't know. But Harry Price, he died in 1948. And after his death, a reporter from the Daily Mail, Charles Shudden, accused Price of faking the phenomena. Now while Shudden was visiting the Borely factory with Price in 1929, he was actually hit in the head with a large pebble and Chutton claims that he had stopped Price later that same day, I'm assuming, and found several stones in his pocket.

But he was like, oh, it was this guy. And then three members of the SPR, Eric Dingwall. I'm sorry, I don't mean I don't mean to make fun of names. I am making fun of British people. Sorry I Don't know. How are you British? Like beans and cheese on a potato and like that's like a delicacy. Anyway, so Eric Dingwall, KM Goldney and Trevor H. Hall in 1948 investigated these claims on the boardly rectory and they published what they found in

1956 and they also said in their book that Price was a fraud and they named this book the haunting of boardly rectory So if you guys want to read it you can Okay, I'm a they then there was a study that was done by the SPR. And they called it like the Borley report. Basically, they just said that all these events were natural causes like rats, acoustics of the house, the cow is built. Yeah. And concluded with quote, when analyze the evidence for haunting and poltergeist activity for each and every period appears to diminish

and force and finally to vanish away, end quote. And then one of the authors, Terrence Hines wrote, quote, Mrs. Marianne Feuster, wife of the rev Lionel Feuster, who lived at the rectory from 1930 to 1935, was actively engaged in fraudulently creating phenomena. Price himself said, salted with mine and faked several phenomena while he was at the rectory and quote Basically just calling him out. I guess Eventually Maryann Fos foister Admitted to saying she hadn't actually seen anything no apparitions or anything like that and all the noises that she would hear that somewhat sounded ghostly was simply just the wind.

And sometimes she would prank her husband with her friends, sometimes she would do it just on her own. And so that's what the events were really caused by. And then there were many legends of the Boyle victory after this. Basically all of the previous owners before Lionel Feuster claimed that they had never seen anything. And they were even surprised to note that the house that they once lived in had now gained its title of being the most haunted house in England. I am so confused right now. Is this place haunted or not? I don't understand it. Like, the most hauntedunking paranormal activity and shit like that. Come on. I don't know. Give this place a little bit of slack. Maybe they're investigating.

Also, I feel like I am consulting though, because let's say that you're living in a plain old regular house And you have all those issues winds rats and like things like that and then they said well you live in the most haunted house It's like no, it's not haunted. It's no it's just like the wind Yeah No, that's kind of fucked I don't know this case is it just threw me if it flew me through a rollercoaster, but there were a lot of people that doubted price there, you know, saying that he was a fraud

saying that he faked this fake to that but there was also some that came to his defense, like SPR researcher Robert Hastings, as well as Price's literary executor Paul Tabary and Peter Underwood, another researcher. They all came to his defense. And later in 1997, pretty recent if you ask for me, Michael Coleman, he made an SPR report saying that although all of these people would come to Price's defense, whenever they were given criticism, they hadn't had anything for a rebut.

So basically, they kind of just make themselves look like idiots by supporting this guy. And eventually, this haunting would be so well known that in 2017, there was like a partly animated film called Borley Rectory, the most haunted house in England that came out. Yeah. And then there was a film, a feature film, the Ghosts of Borley Rectory that was released in 2021, which was super recent. Okay, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like, this whole haunting, this whole house, the history of everything

that you can name of, it's so famous now that there's being films made out of it. There's books that are written about it. And yet, there's nothing to confirm. Like, no, it's not haunted. Yeah, whether it's haunted or not. That's so stupid. I'm sorry. What?

That's my case. That's the Borley Rectory haunting. Wow. Dude, reading this, I wanted to gouge my eyes out because I was like, dude, what is going on? Do you know if it's still standing? No, no, no, no. It was torn down in 19 or 18, no, 1944.

It was demolished after the fire. So it's not still standing. So the fire really did just people just said after the fire, let's just get rid of it. Yeah. Oh, well, I'm not gonna lie. Like I'm kind of disappointed not with you or your storytelling, but just like, what happened? I don't know. It's all over the place and like nowhere at the same time. Yeah, what caught my eye about this case was that it was, you know, declared as the most haunted house in England. And then I

read about it. And I was like, is this even really a haunted house? and then I read about it and I was like is this even really a haunted house? Fair. Not anymore. No. Sorry if it was disappointing. No, it's interesting for sure. No, no, no. It wasn't like disappointing actually, but it's just like... The house is disappointing, not the story. Yes, the house is disappointing. There we go. Yeah. Not the story. Yes, the house is this plane. There we go. Yeah

Weird weird weird story. I don't know but Hey Shit now the world love is a little bit more about it. So if you ever watch those movies guys Now you know the lore Well, thank you guys for listening thanks for sharing thank you um and now i'm gonna direct this attention to j is it my turn you're kidding no oh my god it's j time well the only thing um i hope my story kind of gives you a little bit more of It's a little more intriguing than Alexis's not like he was at but like

this one No, no, because this one's not like a like a building that was I'm just gonna shut up because you had a good case You had a good case. I'm kidding, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Now there's only like one word that I have to describe my case. Like if I had to use one word to describe my case. Okay, first of all, Kai, one word to describe your case. What would you?

One word to describe mine? Yeah. Um, uh, uh, uh, gruesome. Yeah, that is a very good word. What word would you use to describe your case? Stupid. Okay. Yeah.

You know what? Not gonna lie, it kind of fits. Yeah. So, one word to describe my case, green. What? That's a color, Jay. It's still it's a word as well. I guess so. All right, so I guess let's hear it.

So I'm going to give you a title a little bit into the sentence, because I just want you to picture this. So we're going to England. Oh my God. You were like, I have a story to England and I'm like, wait, what are you telling? What are you sharing? Um, we're going to England during the 12th century. Now this would be cause it's 12th century. I'm not going to go find records of that. I'm going to rely on other people getting records. Probably like 1830s or something like that. So this was during the reign of either King Stephen or King Henry II. Yeah, the second.

That's when you know how like back we're going. Holy shit, okay. We're going to suffix Woolpit. Now I just wanted to give you a little bit of knowledge of where the name wolf pit comes from. It's from the old English wolf pit, meaning little wolf pit. Yeah, you'll find me in there. Will we? Because these were pits designed for trapping wolves.

Alright, so the wolf pit. these were pits designed for trapping wolves. All right, so the wolf pit. Yeah, so it was just a village. It's how the village had like protection from the livestock from like wolves. It was very common in a common medieval practice for protecting the communities and the livestock from wolfs attacks. There were like deep trenches or holes that were dug into the ground. And then they were going to, there were a common camouflage on top to appear like it's natural surroundings. Okay. So kind of what you would picture. Now this pits were designed to trap wolves that fell into them while they were roaming or chasing their prey.

pits were designed to trap wolves that fell into them while they were roaming or chasing their prey. And the sides of the pits were steep and they often were lined with sharp stakes at the bottom to ensure that once the wolf came, it couldn't escape. Oh, God. Wow, that's so sad. So it was designed to make it easier for the villagers to capture it or kill it safely. Yeah. But enough about wolves, let's talk about why we're in wolf pit. Yeah.

Okay. One of the nights, the field workers were just doing their work and they found something in the wolf pit. Not something that was not a wolf. They found two children. Oh no. Now for visuals, it was said that the hole was at least twice as tall as the kids were

and a couple of hundred feet wide. Oh my God. Yeah. couple of hundred feet wide. Oh my god. Yeah. A couple hundred feet wide. So it was a boy and a girl. They were speaking a foreign language that the field workers have never heard. And they also had strange color clothes that was made from unfamiliar material. And here's what makes this case a little interesting.

They had green skin. Huh? The fuck? Yeah. So they this is the story of the green children of Woolpit. Bro, what? Aliens, bro. In the 1200, in the 12th century. So they found two kids that were talking differently, like a different language,

strange clothes, and they had green skin. So they took the children out of the Woolpit and they brought them to a night. And his name was Sir Richard DeKane. And Sir Richard just gave them a home to stay and gave them food. What a stand-up guy. I mean, he was a knight. That's true. It was like his whole duty was to, I guess, do that. So, yeah. So, you know, he tried taking care of them. The kids were offered food,

but the kids refused all the food that was given to them. Ungrateful brat. So, no matter what they brought the kids, they would just refuse to eat all the food. And you really couldn't like know why because you didn't speak the same language. Oh yeah, true, true, true. Yeah. You didn't. And they were green. There was however one thing. You're still not over the fact that they're green. Sorry, no, it's so funny. Oh yeah. Now, there was one food in particular that they did eat.

Kara, take any guesses? Banana. Okay, and then Kya, any guesses? Chocolate pudding. No. Yeah. Okay, and then kind of chocolate pudding No, so the only thing that they were willing to eat was beans. Oh my god, free what is yes. British give them the business already. I forgot about that. Yeah, so they were only willing to eat beans. And Sir Richard's servants brought them like raw beanstalks because it's the only thing

that this two kids would eat. That's insane, dude. They already passed the British citizenship test. Like holy shit. Oh my god. Now, something very interesting about this is that the kids didn't know how to get the beans out of the beanstalk. They knew that the beans were in there, but they didn't know how to get them out. So, the kids ended up eating the whole beanstalk. What happened? No, I mean, they were just eating the bean socket.

Eventually they the servants showed them how to get the beans out and the kids were really, really excited. Yeah. Now, according to like the few like records I found, this was the only things that the kids would eat for months. Damn. They just lived off beans? They literally lived on beans.

They refused to eat anything else. And eventually, the boy... They became bean children believed to have um died of malnutrition oh oh yeah that's not what i expected i mean that all happens when you're british and you only eat beans yeah and you only eat beans. Yeah. Oh, it comes to show you that you can't live off of beans. No, you need like seasoning. So eventually the girl did.

The girl did start to eat other foods. Oh my God. And eventually she learned the English like the English language. And over time, it was said that she lost her green skin. Oh what? Yeah. No no more green skin. What the hell? And that's like sorry over no more green kids. No so she lost her skin. And the girl started to speak English and she gave her name or like someone gave her the name of Agnes Barr. Agnes Barr?

Agnes Barr. Agnes Barr, okay. Barr? Yeah, the most normal British name. Agnes Barr. Yeah. So she was also baptized once she learned to speak English.

And getting baptized during this time simply meant that you were committing yourself to have a good moral standing in society. However, Agnes was known to be reckless.

And quite promiscuous as well. Oh, Agnes. I know. The hell, Agnes? You've fris- you've frisky- Agnes. Agnes free, you bruh? For real, she a freak.

She went from green to promiscuous. That's gonna be me. You are green. That's racist bro. How could you say that? Yeah I'm racist. Okay. I'm racist. Alright let's move on before you get canceled get you know what Alexis have some beans. So it was said the girl reported when she started to speak English, they obviously asked her. Where did you come from? And she reported that she came from an under from a strange underground land. The Underdark? The Underdark.

I didn't know she was. I am so glad you guys caught it. That's where I'm from. I mean, it's just me. Well, she didn't call it the Underdark. She called it the land of St. Martin. Of who? The land of St. Martin. St. Martin, okay.

The underdark. Yeah, and she said that there was no sun, but a perpetual twilight. Oh. Yeah. And she said that like her and the brother or the boy everyone that lived in St. Martin that also had like greenish skin. What? Yeah. Oh, okay. So she also described that there was like a a very long river like that just ran across the land. Mm-hmm. She explained that her and her brother were looking after their father's flock when they came upon a cave

and on entering the cave, they wandered through the darkness for a long time until they followed the sound of bells. What? Why did you do that? Yeah. bells. Oh yeah. Then they came out of the other side and turned into the bright sunlight which they found startling and then they they were found by the field workers. Oh my god the one time following something actually worked out. Actually kind of worked out. Yeah. I think people Well, I mean, if you think about it, they were taking from what they said they were taking care of their father's flock. That just means that they left the flock

alone. So true. I would do. To go into a cave. Yeah, I would love to go spelunking. to go into a cave. Yeah, I would love to go spelunking. Now, there's multiple theories about who the kids were and where they came from. One theory is said that the children's had arsenic poisoning. Oh. Yeah, so that story goes that their caretaker, an Earl from North Folk,

left them to die in a forest near the border and then they found themselves in that wolf pit. Oh, that's dark. That's so sad. Yeah. Now there's another theory that's a little less dark. Okay. Still dark enough. Um, just just a little bit lighter. Okay. Which, Alexis, okay, I told for this already, but I am surprised that at your age as an unwedded woman, you have not caught the green sickness.

as an unwedded woman, you have not caught the green sickness. The, the, the what? The green sickness. Oh my God. I feel like I'm going to get it soon. So during the Victorian times, it was believed that a single women that were like at a certain age that were unwedded, um, would catch the green sickness and would turn their skin green. You guys, I'm seeing green spots on my arm. No way. No way. I think, I think I'm changing. You know what, you might because it turns out that it's a very very severe type of anemia. Oh my god, wait, what? No way. Yes, so the green sickness or what they

call it during the medieval times, it's known today as hypochromatic anemia, which is, yeah, which has caused a diet that's very, very deficient in iron and protein, A diet that's very, very deficient in iron and protein. And it causes the skin to have like a green tinge to it. Whoa. So it's an actual medical condition. Yeah, they just called it the green sickness back in the day, and they thought that only on would a woman got it.

They weren't alien children. They were just sick. That's another theory, because if that's what it was the boy also caught the green illness true true true I don't know. I like thinking that they were aliens. So oh so you're not the only one that has that theory Because there is a theory that people believe that they were aliens from a different planet And that they got teleported to Woolpit

What? Yeah There are theories out there that believe that the kids That it was not a portal. It was teleportation Oh, okay. Well you can And that's how they explain like the green skin They said that the green skin was caused by like genetically modified food from their planet and when they stopped

consuming it the green skin faded oh yeah and that would also explain the diff like the other language that they were speaking that sounded just gibberish to them. Because they're like if they're aliens they're not gonna speak our language. Yeah. Now on our theory, go ahead. No, it's like who- it's so funny who comes up with these theories, dude. Oh, there was no shortage of theories. There's one word that's a little more like common sense, and then we're going to go wild in the theories again.

Okay, I love that. So insane. I mean, that's all they are. They're just theories. There's no hard evidence. There's another one that people say it's the most likely theory that tells that there were Flemish immigrants who were, and this children were, you know, be like their parents were prosecuted and killed possibly in the battle at Forhman, Foreman in 1173.

Damn. 73. Damn. Yeah and that's because uh Fornham uh St. Martin was a nearby village and the name kind of lined up with what she said. Um and they were separated um that that village was separated from Will Pitt by a river just like the kids described that there's a river. And just a few miles from St. Edmunds was where the loud bells often chimed. So they're like, it kind of adds up the river, there's the Flemish immigrants, so there's that language barrier.

Of course they have different clothing and the bells chime in as well. So it's possible that the children had been orphaned. They suffered a poor diet, which would lead to the great illness or anemia. And eventually they found their way to Woolpit following the sound of the bells. Yeah, so that's an area theory. So, okay, there's a lot of theories on that. Yeah, there's a lot. Some of them better than others. Yeah, yeah. We're gonna go to the last theory and also a little bit more of a wild theory.

It's not aliens because we've covered that one already. But this theory says that the kids, I can't even take myself serious saying this, that the kids were fairies. Oh I think that one's for sure true. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think so too? Guy is dying on that side. That's the only logical answer for this one. And the reason for that was because fairies, if you ever go back to like how people describe them, they would always describe them green. So fairies always have that like green skin to them and that's why they thought that the

kids were fairies. They're fairies. Nice. Yeah, I like that one. Could be one, could be the other. I think we found the one. Yeah, maybe. But those are the theories as to what ended up happening to the little girl that took the name Agnes.

She eventually got married and nothing else was known of her at that point. And that just has to do with the fact that once she lost her green tint, they don't really care. Yeah. But that's part of the fun. Not knowing. Now something really cool that and like that Wool Pit did, I don't know if it was like recently or not.

Or if it was like almost right off the bat when it happened was that uh Woolpit their their name let me send you the picture um and their name they ended up having two little kids that are the color green in in it So they kind of like embraced it. Yeah. So they definitely embraced it, which was nice. Yeah. I'll send it to the group chat real quick. Okay. But yeah, that's the the green children of Woolpit. I love that. Thank you for sharing. Yeah, thank you. It was a fun story. Yeah, it was fun. It was fun to research it. It was fun to cover it. And the theories were never ending. I honestly think they were furry. I mean, very. Listen us, let us know which one of your theories,

which of the theories is your favorite? Yeah. Yeah. Which one is your favorite? And then let us know which one you think is the most realistic. Yeah. And then we'll like, we'll try to tally them all up to see what we all agree on. And the next episode will, we'll say, reveal, reveal who thought the, the, which theory was the correct one or which one was your favorite? We can make like a what is it like a poll on Instagram? Yeah oh yeah we can do that too yeah um but I just sent you the pictures and you see two pictures one of like the tiny pit and the other one of the kids

and it's not like they were like shred green it was like they were slightly green yeah okay slightly green that makes sense then it's sort of like a so much like a jaundice or something yeah it literally is just a medical condition causing it like that makes sense and then when the girls start eating other foods the the green faded away, which would make sense. Yeah, I'll test it out. No, we don't need you to be green. That's not. Anyways.

Yeah, so that is episode eight. Yeah. In the books. Once again, feel free to write in, let us know what you want to hear. Yeah. Because if you don't write in, guess what? We're going to talk about what we want to talk. Yeah.

Yeah. And I know you guys can only bear us for so long. So yeah, you might not like our stories because you didn't pick it like the green children. No one asked for them. I just thought you love them, but I love them. Yeah, children. The grandchildren are sick. We don't discriminate. They were literally sick. They were literally sick, Kai. I don't know. But yeah.

Green children. Green children. What was my case again? Oh yeah, like weird haunted house and then really messed up murderous cannibal author guy. Yeah. Nice. Well, good way to film up that episode. Check out our socials and please write in because we're starting to hope you're not out there. Apparently there's like an EP, like a music EP named Issei Sagawa that a band made. What?

2007? What? 2007? There's two songs on it. I'll have to... The first song is called White Skin and the second song is called Theto Sagawa. Okay. Oh, okay. I guess I'll listen to them. And the second song is called Thedosagoa. Okay.

Oh, okay. I guess I'll listen to them. I thought that the second one was going to be called like, Bright Cheek or something like that. That would have been more creative. Yeah. Yeah. Well, anyway.

Have a good night's day, rest of. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for listening. Thank you guys as always. Yeah. See you next episode. Goodbye. Bye. Bye. I see you