Chambers of the Occult - Xanax, Wine, and Whispers: The Death of Tamla Horsford

Episode Date: May 1, 2025

Send us a textThis week on Chambers of the Occult, we’re joined by special guests Brent and Talia from Chillworthy for a crossover unlike any other where they take the wheel and guide us through one of the most chilling and controversial cases in recent true crime history: the death of Tamla Horsford.What was meant to be a casual adult slumber party with wine, football moms, and laughter ended in tragedy, and left a trail of questions no one seems eager to answer. Tamla, the only Black woman at the party, was found dead in the backyard the following morning. It was ruled an accident, but too many details refuse to fall in line. Together we peel back the layers:The eerie 911 call that felt far too calm.The autopsy inconsistencies, including unexplained injuries.The social dynamics of the party—how race, privilege, and silence may have played a role.The Xanax and alcohol mix, and whether that tells the whole story.And the family’s continued fight for answers and justice.Brent and Talia help us dive deep into the murky waters of this case bringing empathy, sharp insight, and their signature Chillworthy tone. This episode isn’t just about true crime it’s about how justice can be delayed, distorted, and denied.It started as a night of fun, but ended in a nightmare. Light a candle, stay curious, and prepare to dive into a case where every answer leads to more questions… and justice remains just out of reach.

Chambers of the Occult may contain content that might not be suitable for all listeners. Listener discretion is advised. Hello. Hello. We'll go back to Chambers of the Occult. I'm Kai. And I'm Jay. And as you can see, if you're watching YouTube. We're joined here by a couple other people, if you guys would like to introduce yourselves.

We're getting the hang of this. We have some guests on. Hi everybody, I'm Brent. I'm Talia. And they're from their own podcast, Chillworthy. Yes. So Chillworthy, from what I've heard of you guys, great most recent episode by the way. I didn't enjoy that.

It was a little in the weeds. No, it was awesome, I loved it, I loved it. Chillworthy is another fellow true crime podcast of a duo of two best friends, just like us. Um, so listeners, we would really say to check them out. Um, today they're going to be giving us a little taste of what they cover on their podcast. So we're excited to have them here. Yeah.

Uh, Brent Talia, tell us a little bit about, you know, your podcast. This is your chance to tell our listeners why they should see you. Like, yeah, tell them about yourself. Why they should listen to us. Well, I think that we are an acquired taste, but I think you will like it once you start. As long as you don't mind disorganized thoughts. Yeah. I think, and Talia chime in whenever you want, but I have always said to her from the beginning that I just want our podcast to feel like

you're sitting down with your friends and talking about things that are serious and whatnot, but also you're doing it in a way that you would talk to friends about it, not like a newscast or something like that. So just kind of like a, I don't know, what would you say, Talia, like a little bit of chaotic. Very, yes, yes, worse in other episodes than others.

Right. Like high energy. Yeah. Yeah, lighthearted to an extent, right. But still realizing that like all this stuff is serious at the end of the day. Oh, absolutely, utmost respect for the victims. Yeah.

Nice. So pretty much it's like, hey, we're gonna take this serious, but we're gonna have fun while talking about it. Right. Yes, and mostly making fun of each other. Well, I think that's pretty accurate. Like friends do.

Our neighbors, right? So pretty much to our listeners, if you guys like our podcast, you're gonna love Chillworthy. Check them out, they're awesome. Yeah, so Brett, Talia, you're our guest. Take it away, let us know what you have. Our listeners are here for you. Give them a treat, give us a treat, because we actually don't know what you have for us either. Yeah, exciting stuff.

Let me get my notes here. Usually it's like Jay or me presenting to each other, so only one of us can be surprised, but now both of us are here waiting for a case. Which is kind of like a nice surprise. Yeah. Yeah, it feels really fun. New experience.

We do the same thing, that we don't know each other's when we, you know, one of us will present the other one, it's a surprise too, so yeah, we do the exact same thing. And it's very exciting. I love that. Yeah. Especially when you were like, I have never heard of this before. Right.

I like those fast. Which is a lot of them. Yes. Well, and you know, something interesting, somebody was just asking me when I told them that I had a true crime podcast and they were asking me about like, oh, what do you think of this and this?

And I was like, I have no idea. And then I had to kind of go back and say like, the the true crime podcast part was for me only because I was chasing Talia for years to do something. And I know she likes true crime. I feel like, I feel like this person, like if she would have been into, you know, collecting teacups, then we would be talking about the latest. Tea cup. Whatever. Collecting teacups.

Yeah. I'm not really, you know, I'm not up to date on all of these current ones that everybody is like talking about. So, so just to your point, it's like, they're all basically new to us because, well at least to me, because I was never looking them up before really.

Fair. Yeah, of course. But, okay, so we're good to start? Yeah, whenever you guys would like. Okay, all right. Okay, so I'm gonna start. Whenever you guys would like. Okay, all right. Okay, so I'm gonna start.

This is a case on Tamla Horsford. I don't know if you guys have ever heard of her. I haven't, no. Okay. Wonderful. This will start then. Right. Speaking of not knowing cases, right?

Yeah. I'm sure I would remember a name like Tamela. Tink, tink, tink. Well, so it's T-A-M-L-A. Oh, okay. Tamela. Okay. Tamela.

Tamela. All right, so we're going to imagine that it is a cool fall night on November 3rd 2018 Right this takes place in Cumming, Georgia 40 year old Tamla Horsford who was a loving mother of five She heads out to an overnight birthday slumber party. So this is like an adult slumber party, basically. Is it a slumber party away from the kids?

Yeah, no kids. Okay. I can get on board with that. I can't. I have no desire to be slumbering with other adults. I don't wanna do any of that. Agreed, Talia, agreed. Yeah, it sounds very unappealing.

I want my own bed, my own room. Right, right. But I guess it depends on who you're with, obviously. See, the only reason I can get behind it is because it's so away from kids. There's lots of other things to do away from kids. So, fair. Also a good point. Yeah, we don't have to be slumbering with people

while we do it, or don't do it. True. Right. So anyway, this is like the setting, it is an adult slumber party. It was supposed to be with fellow football moms from their children's football league. Okay. Okay. Now this is painting a picture. So it's a mom sleepover. Yeah,

football mom sleepover. Yes. So Tamela arrives around 10pm. And I guess she arrived a bit late because she'd been baking a breakfast casserole for her family. So this kind of gives a little glimpse of her caring nature, how she was a very devoted mother, that kind of thing. Something of note was that she was the only

person of color who was invited to this party. Interesting. And that kind of, the only reason I mention it that way is because in the podcasts I've heard talk about this before and some of the research the town That they were in didn't have like the best history with Sort of like LA had a racist past gotcha got it. Okay So it was kind of significant that she was the only one invited a little bit. Okay

So anyway, I just wanted to make that statement out in the front So anyway, so she's at this house. Now she didn't really know many of these people at all. I think she had only really just started talking to the host and only had met this host about two times before this sleepover was happening. So it was kind of a, I don't know, a bold move on her part to accept it.

But because I think I'd be pretty nervous if I was going to sleep over with people I basically didn't know. But yeah, even less reason for me to go. Yeah. But she was, she, you know, she was very personable, so she ended up fitting right in. The party host was John Myers, which is spelled J.E.A. N.N.E. I was going to ask, OK, that I figured she was she pronounced it Jean, but now it's like Jean Bonnet. Jean. Right, yeah. Yeah.

So this party was kind of to help celebrate this woman's 45th birthday. Okay. So that's kind of where we're at. So what I'm gonna do is go through a little bit of the timeline of that night, and then I will hand it over to Talia to continue. Cool. Awesome.

All right. So like I said, this is the night of November 3rd, which eventually turns into November 4th, as it always does. As a sleepover does. Yes. So like I said, 10 p.m., Tamla arrives at the slumber party.

She is joining about a dozen friends at John Myers' home. So the group eats and they drink and they're watching like some sports ball and they're playing different party games. Do you guys know that we use that term? I love the term sports ball. I use it because I'm not into sports. And it's all the same to me.

If you couldn't tell. No way. Whatever they're touching or pulling or know, pulling or tackling, doesn't matter to me. Pulling. So. One way to put it. This was, so this was, like I said, a sports ball kind of night. And although it was supposed to be mostly girls, there were two men who ended up being there.

But they were supposedly watching this sports ball game in the basement. As men? Well, and may I say, well, and they supposedly, one of them was sick and that's why he didn't want to leave because he was supposed to go watch this game somewhere else. And then, sorry, I just interrupted you. he didn't want to leave because he was supposed to go watch this game somewhere else and then sorry just interrupted you but like i think not that it's a huge detail but just then they all of a sudden make their way upstairs it's like these two guys because then he had his friend come over and then they're participating in the party upstairs the rest of the night i just think that was shitty keep going especially if you're sick

I mean nowadays we think of people being sick differently because of the pandemic but like back in the day I don't know. I mean they probably We treat it differently now. Pre-post, it doesn't matter to me. I don't go for sickness in any means. Smart move. And it was his stomach, and then he's also chowing down on gumbo, I read. That was the aunt who lives there, made them all gumbo,

and he had no problem showing down on that. Anyway. Oh man. I'm in the weeds already. Yeah. Love it, that's what we're here for. All right, so now we are at around 11.30, and you know, the party starts winding down.

I mean you guys said you did listen to our last episode so Talia would definitely be winding down by this point. She was winding down two hours earlier than that. That's another reason why I would not want to do this adult slumber party because I would want to go to bed at like eight and not everyone is even there yet at this thing, they're still rolling in at 10, 11, 30. Yeah, fair.

No, no, couldn't. And I just noticed, Talia, are you drinking like caffeinated coffee? I am, so all day I've been stressing over this. Like, how am I gonna do this? I'm so tired already and I haven't been sleeping well this week. So I'm like, all right, I'm gonna start like overdosing on tea, like while I'm still tired already and I haven't been sleeping well this week. So I'm like, all right, I'm going to start like overdosing on tea while I'm still at

work. It's not doing the trick. I don't feel any pep in my step. So then Ashley, I'm like driving home and she's like, you know, you should just stop and get coffee. I was like, no, I'll never sleep again. I can't do that. And then I started thinking about it like it would be delicious.

So I twist my arm, I stop, so I have like two seltzers, my water, and my coffee. So I- Wow. I was expecting you to pull like two cups of something. Yeah. Absolutely. Oh, and I also have this, my big water.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right, so anyway, guests are starting to like wind down now. There were a couple of guests who weren't actually going to be staying the night. So they started to head out. Others, obviously, including like the host and her boyfriend, they are staying there.

That's their house, so they're going to bed. So now like as the clock ticks by, we're at about 1.30 in the morning, and Tamla stays up a bit longer. And from what I heard, she was, you know, she was very social and she didn't seem overly tired, so she really wasn't overly excited to go to bed.

You know, she was in a great mood. She was making herself another bowl of gumbo and just kind of chatting with whoever was still up and around. Okay. So she made friends or was making some friends. It sounds that way. Now we get to 1 147 in the morning. And a woman by the name

of Bridget fuller, she leaves the party and she gets picked up by her husband. So this makes her the last person to actually see Tamela that evening. Oh, So now I guess Tamela was a smoker. So she mentions that she wanted to have one last cigarette before going to sleep. So she gets on her shoes and she steps out onto the back deck alone, like I said, around 1.47 a.m. the back deck alone, like I said, around 1.47 a.m.

Now, this house had a security system that logged whenever a door or a window opened and closed. So that's how we know it was 1.47. Yes. Okay. Gotcha. Such a specific number. Yeah, that's why. Yes.

So 1.49, the home's back door is opened, then it's closed, and then it's opened again within about a 10 minute window. And again, this is according to the security log that was from the security system. So the 1.57 AM entry was the last recorded door activity. And then apparently the door was just left ajar after that. So investigators believe that Tamla went out

on the second floor balcony around this time, and the door remaining open suggests that she never made it back inside. There was actually an unlit cigarette and lighter that were later found out on the deck as if it was just dropped there. She never got her smoke? It appears not. Yeah. So now overnight and I don't have the exact times for this anymore because nobody's opening and closing doors. But overnight, while Tamla is presumably outside, most of the house is now asleep.

And I guess even at this point, a few more people had now departed the house, but this was not the people who didn't sleep over, these were the people who were getting up super early to leave in the morning. Got it. That place is to be. Yeah, so I guess one woman specifically,

she left around like four, 10 in the morning because she said she had an early work shift. So, and then other guests head out around 7 45 a.m. So there was a husband and wife couple, Tom and Stacey, they left around 8 30 in the morning and basically none of them, all these guests that are leaving, none of them notice anything is wrong. Now keep in mind that Tamla did not have a sleeping buddy, if you will, at this sleepover. So I believe she was sleeping downstairs

in the living room area. I think that's where she was supposed to have been. So it's not like she didn't fall asleep with somebody in the same room as her. So these people getting up and leaving weren't really thinking that anything was completely wrong. Yeah, of course. I mean, they thought she was asleep or she had left already. Right. And plus, it was November, so it was a little darker in the morning still. Yeah. You know, and so, and I don't know about you, but I don't really check the backyard all the time when I like I'm leaving

But the thing was that So okay, so they're they're leaving so then 845 now John's aunt whose name is Madeline She lives in this house she wakes up and she goes into the kitchen to make some coffee. And while she is doing this, she happens to look out the window that overlooks the backyard and she sees something pretty alarming. She sees a figure, uh, in a white onesie pajama suit,

which is, spoiler, what Tamela slept in, a white onesie. Okay. Which had like, I wanna say dog or paw prints, it was like a paw print design. Okay. Paw prints, thank you. So she, so this person's laying in this onesie pajama suit, lying face down in the grass.

So she, now I heard a few different things here and as Talia and I always say, the age of the internet, there's always gonna be differing information. 100%. Right. So all of this is alleged, however, one of the things I heard, I think, was a direct interview with Madeline. And I actually told this to tell you yesterday, something that was a little odd to me was that her, when she saw this person, who obviously was Tamla laying out face down in the grass. Her first response to this was actually to, in her words,

get down on her hands and knees and pray. What? So I don't know what that was about, why that was her first reaction. But nonetheless, that's what she said happened. What was her second reaction? Her second reaction was, did she get any more normal? Okay.

I wouldn't even say that though. I feel like if you saw that, you would go dashing out to help another human being. She didn't even do that as her second thing that she does. Well apparently getting down on the floor, She didn't even do that as her second thing that she does. Well, apparently getting down on the floor, I said it was slightly. Not much better. She's knocking on doors next.

I mean, she's still not going out to Tamla, but. No, she's not. That's a bunch of bull shit. Literally. She apparently goes to alert Jean and Jose, who is Jean's boyfriend. And she says, now she says she referred to her in this way that I'm going to tell you

because she could not remember her name. Okay. Can't remember your guess. No, but she was participating in the festivities, but she was participating in the party. Everybody the benefit of the doubt. I don't like her. I have more to say about this. I would love to hear it. Yeah. I have more coming on Madeline. benefit and I'm Madeline Each other out. Yes, so she knocks on this door and Says to Jose your friend from the islands She I guess she was from an island. Yeah, but you don't need to be. Yeah! Because she, it was a reference, it was a reference to Tam with Caribbean heritage.

Uh huh. Yeah. So she basically says, something is wrong with your friend from the islands. You couldn't just say there is someone in the backyard? No, there's a lot of weird, there's a lot of... They needed to specify. What would you say, Talia? Like, non-urgency, almost.

Not urgency, but also, like, major inconsistencies. And I'm not saying that any of these women necessarily did something to her, but it wouldn't fucking surprise me. But Madeline initially told the police in her interview that, excuse me, John. So she claims she heard water running. John and Jose were showering. Well, somebody was showering in this room.

And I guess the bathroom must have been like in their bedroom. So she's knocking on the door and she's like, well, I didn't know if like John was showering and Jose was sleeping or Jose was sleeping. And John, or I think I just said that, you know what I mean? One of them was showering or she's like, were they showering together? And I didn't want to interrupt them.

Meanwhile, John and Jose say in their interviews, we weren't showering, we were sleeping. Like she woke us up out of a sleep. So what water was she hearing? I think Madeline is just full of shit, and I have one more thing Okay, tell me please yeah, I'd love to hear it. I'm looking forward to more about Madeline So alright anyway, so she tells him this so

eventually, and I say that eventually almost like ridiculously, so they do call 911 for help. So on this recorded 911 call, Jose reports that Tamla is not moving one bit and she's not breathing. And he also mentions that Tamla is lying face down and And he even I guess notes that there was a small cut on her risk. Speculating that maybe it was like self inflicted. I don't know why that you go, you know, in that direction. But and I guess there's you can sort of hear in the background a female voice is kind of anxiously like talking out loud and she's, you know, sort of wondering, like wondering out loud, did she get pushed off this balcony where she was supposed to have been having this smoke, basically.

Yeah. Don't you also find, so during that call, Jose also commented, or not commented, the 911 operator was like, is she breathing? And he's like, we didn't go over to her yet. And the 911 operator's like, no. And he's like, the operator's like, well, do you think you could? We should know that much. And also, he never tried to resuscitate her.

Even if you don't think she's breathing right, you aren't an EMT, you're a pretrial officer. Turn her over CPR. I don't know if we got to that part yet. Yes, just try it. How long before they actually approached her? Yeah. Is there a rough time between when they discovered her and when the phone call was made, the

911 call? Is there, like, an estimate? Oh, I don't know what the time was. I know we know it. I just imagine there was, you know, probably a long period since there was the non-urgent of it all. Yeah, I think I mean definite non-urgency Like I can't imagine just going up to my friend and being like hey I think your friend from the islands is like not doing so great outside

But we don't know, we didn't go up to her. I don't know. Not doing so great outside? Are they breathing? We didn't go up to her. Let me go finish. Let's grab some coffee first and then we can go out there. The only thing that is coming to mind, and I didn't really touch on this actually, but She brought a quote unquote hostess gift. Okay. Which was. Oh, good story, good story.

A big, I think, a big bottle of tequila. Okay. That she insisted was imported from Mexico. And when I say that, I just mean like, she was trying to say like, hey, this is really good quality tequila. Yeah, of course. And this story sort of hits home because Talia faced this very thing herself when she brought

a hostess gift to a semi friends party once and it was a bottle of wine that he did not like. Semi friend? And he told her like never my friend drink this There's too much calories in it and now he has something to serve his guests so Okay, this kind of stuff does happen in real life. Not just to tell you as well but anyway Posts basically were like, thanks but no thanks.

I don't like tequila. Okay. I don't want anything to do with this. So I have to say pretty rude. Yeah. It is. You accept the gift, find something else to do with it. Yeah. You put it on display.

And she's, yeah. And she's like unapologetic about it too. It comes up in her interview and she's so bitched up about it. Like unapologetic about it too. It comes up in her interview and she's so bitched up about it. Like unapologetic and it's, she just has no shame, none. Someone died on your property and you act like it's an inconvenience? Yes!

Absolutely. What? You are not the vicar here. It was her birthday party, forgot. Oh my God. Nothing ruins my birthday. She couldn't have died the day after. It had to be on my birthday.

Well, it could have been the day after actually. Yeah, it could have been. We'll get into it. But the reason I bring this up is because from the accounts, Tamla drank a lot of tequila herself because nobody else wanted it. Makes sense. The only reason that jogged my memory about this

was because I'm thinking of the possibility of like, now granted this isn't normally people in their 40s, but let's say people in their 20s who are drinking a hell of a lot throughout the night They might end up falling asleep quote-unquote in some weird places. I'll tell you is gone. We lost her And that is exactly what you can expect if you tune into chill worthy That is exactly what you can expect if you tune into Chillworthy. Absolutely.

But so I just mean like, you know, in my head sometime, and like I said, I know, I feel like I go like over the top giving people the benefit of the doubt, but it's like, pretend like you had a really drunk friend who, you know, ended up on the floor. And I know it's different as a 40 year old out on the lawn, but I'm just saying like, if somebody was really blasted, I could see, oh, she's back.

She's back. We were just talking about you. Sorry. Oh, how nice. God, stop it. No worries. So anyway, that's the only reason I mentioned that is like, she did have, you know, she had a lot going on.

She had a lot to drink. Yeah. Okay. So anyway, to get to the end of this timeline, basically, like Talia had mentioned, the 911 operator is asking if she's breathing and stuff. He says no. He says her body is quote unquote stiff. And so if her body was indeed stiff, it was kind of suggesting that she had been dead

several hours before they discovered her. And then we get to 9, 9 07 in the morning. And that's when the first of the county sheriff's deputy arrives at the scene. Not very long after the initial call was made. Yeah, of course. But sadly, there was nothing to be done at that point because Tamla is pronounced dead in the backyard. And like I said, she's still dressed in her white paw print onesie.

She's got on her slippers. And then her body is soon taken to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, to the medical examiner's office for a full autopsy. So that is the, that's kind of the timeline of the night. And now I will pass it over to Talia to talk a little bit more about what's been going on. Right. All right.

Okay. So the Sheriff's Office is leaning strongly towards this was just an accident. So my internet, real quick, apparently keeps going, like the internet's not going out, but I keep getting this message that I don't have a stable internet connection. Can you hear me?

Okay. Like when that happens, should I just keep talking? I can hear you. We can hear you. Oh, you can. Try it one more time. No issues at all. You can hear me. You did kind of pop out for a second. No issues.

Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. So the sheriff's office was really heavily leaning towards this was an accident and not really entertaining much else. Like they felt that, you know, she was the only person awake, which I kept going back to, well, what if some weirdo was outside, not necessarily like waiting for her and knowing that she was going to be out there if they wanted to attack her, but also she was going out and smoking pretty much all night. So someone could have seen that. And if it was that, like, it just sounds like the town was not, we're not talking like friendly waters. And I don't know, I just, of course, I don't know, it just made me wonder. So they felt that

between like how much she drank, and I think I cut out Brent when you were talking about this. So stop me if you already went into just everything like with her blood alcohol level and that she was probably, they're assuming like wobbly. Did you talk about how there were other things in her system too? I didn't hear any of that. No. Okay.

So she had marijuana in her system and she also had Xanax in her system and she didn't have a prescription for the Xanax. So found two conflicting things with that. So she wasn't expecting to sleep over. She was expecting to party. The Xanax wasn't metabolized yet. Oh, am I breaking up again? Your audio is fine. Yeah. Everyone's frozen for me. You're frozen, but.

Yeah. I think we're frozen. Yeah. I think we're frozen for her, sadly. That. Oh, I just heard you say that, Brent. And all three of you are frozen. But we can still hear you. I can hear you guys, too. But you're all frozen in these very, very serious faces. OK. Oh, my God. All Okay. Okay. Oh my God. All right.

So. Old school podcasting. Oh my God. No more video. I can see a picture of myself and I look like I'm like electrocuted. All right. So it's hysterical. I wish I could take a picture of it and show you guys.

All right. So no signs that she had vomited, but that somehow got floated that, oh, maybe she was like looking over the railing and got, and was like getting sick. And there was no report that she had vomited recently, that she had aspirated, that anything like that had happened. So that seemed to kind of just be born out of nowhere. But back to the Xanax. So she had Xanax in her system and found two conflicting things on that where I thought

it had said that it was already in her system and something based off of the levels that it wasn't clear on when she had actually – that she didn't necessarily take it there. Then the next thing I saw was saying how it hadn't even been metabolized yet. Then that leads to one of the girls at the party, I forget which one it was, but that she had a Xanax prescription, kept it in a necklace that she wore, and was basically distributing it at the party. So not to say like anyone like for Sam, right? Like just she was she was ready to.

She was ready for anything. Not Tamla, the provider she was doing. She was doing business. So obviously there was a lot going on. And they the other thing, too, just her injuries. I mean, I don't know falling. I looked up, is it possible to die from 20 foot drop, which is what John's boyfriend had originally recorded the distance was, but it was actually like 14 feet and like 10 inches. Well, apparently connections can drop and die.

Okay, I'm so sorry about that. It was having connection technological fiascos over here. So I forget where I was exactly just with The different things in her system and the person supplying the Xanax party. So yeah So all of that she's ready to do business So the was. So the sheriff's office concluded that based off of the injury, oh, that's what I was saying. So they were saying that they found it to be accidental that due to the multiple blunt force injuries that she had seemed consistent with a fall. And when I was doing the research, I looked it up because I thought, is that possible? What is the distance where you could potentially die? I guess just falling the wrong way, but it was saying anywhere starting really at like

10 feet, you could die from a fall. So she had trauma. I don't know. I thought it would have been way more than that, but I don't know, obviously. So. Yeah, that's not a lot. Right. That's what I was thinking. So she had trauma to her head, neck and torso. She had a broken neck, the laceration to the right ventricle of her heart, and then obviously a ton of cuts and bruises, and then a severe fracture to her wrist,

which there was a bone protruding, so it was a compound fracture, which they said was consistent with a fall, right? And that was another thing. With a fall, trying to brace herself. Exactly, and there was another thing that was inconsistent with the interviews that they were saying how initially they, Jose and Jean reported that, and I guess some of the other women

too, that when they saw Tamlin's body, initially her arms were totally straight, like at her sides when she was face down. And they all commented on how disturbing that was and how it didn't seem normal, like that you would fall that way and that you would land, I guess I should say land that way in a fall. Yeah, you wouldn't. It was unnatural. Yes.

Right. But, and this is what they're saying at the party. So then that was part of what like kind of began the suspicion with the police, which I'm kind of jumping ahead, but that someone moved her body and didn't report it, because then the way the drawing of the crime, well, not crime scene, but the scene was,

was that her arm was out at an angle. So not a, and then it just, I don't know, things like don't really make sense. It's just not very consistent. The inconsistencies, yeah. Right, right. It just, something doesn't quite add up. So they treated it, the sheriff's office did treat it like it was a potential crime scene but still were kind of right out of the gate really pushing for that this must

have been accidental. They also didn't tag all of the evidence and they also didn't take photos of everything. So again, like it just seemed very sloppy. Yeah. And yeah, like they didn't care. No. And they were letting, there were, they interviewed these people together. I shouldn't say that. They let them together in the house. Like a group interview? Well, not a group interview.

I misspoke, sorry. Oh, so they could corroborate and... Yes, yes. They didn't separate them before. They could smooth out a story, yeah. Exactly. So I don't know if I don't believe these people. I mean, I don't believe these people, but then it's like the police are a whole other

sort of like beast in this. And I mean, everyone is awful. And then there was also, so there was footage of the interviews that were happening in John's house and she can be heard and Madeline can be heard fussing over these officers and how they got them Dunkin Donut gift cards.

They were falling all over them. Madeline is like, like interrupting Jean to say like, oh, well, I made them cookies. Then you hear Jean say, I have to go to the funeral. I have to get ready for the funeral. Like, can I please go start to get ready? And it was just very insensitively put, like doesn't use Tamlin's name, doesn't, or Tam, my God, Tamla's name, doesn't.

Tamla. There's just no like compassion, right? There's just no compassion. Like she was acting like it was a chore and just so, just this like very, I felt like callous attitude so yeah I would say about that. Wow. That's the whole like vibe all around just from everybody involved even the investigators it seems. They're treating it like it's an inconvenience everyone. Yes. Everyone. Yes. Oh well looks like a woman of color died. Yeah, next. And that, like I said at the beginning, that was one of the really the only reason

why I had brought that up about the fact that she was the only person of color there was just because of the place and the history of the place. You know, you don't know how. For lack of a better term, like how diluted that has become, or is it still pretty strong? Is it still prominent, yeah. So, yeah. Also, real quick, and I'm done after this

for a little while, they also, it seemed like there was possibly like this planting of, not evidence, but like, kind of like a diversion, because there was an omelet cigarette and a lighter that so supposedly Tamla was smoking downstairs, but this was upstairs. And Jose had reported that, oh, like I went out, saw them on the ground. So I quick picked them up. And I can't remember what the investigator said to him. I think it was, if I'm not mistaken, he did this before he went out to check on her. The

investigator was like, you thought that seemed important to you? You should do that first? Jose's like, yeah, I have OCD. I like to clean up. I like to clean up things. That was on the ground so I wanted to pick them up. What the hell are you talking about? It just it just I don't think sounds believable at all And I just think like no one can keep up with these lies and they're just I don't know. I don't know anyway I'm done for now Terrible people There's so many consistencies that yeah that I just don't like them. A ton.

So just to revisit the guests for a little bit because of all these inconsistencies and that like, so there were 12 people there and some of them were subject to a little bit more scrutiny than others. So just to go through sort of, I mean, not that I'm making light of this, but it sounds like almost like a murder mystery when you think that all-

It kind of does. That's what I've been thinking, yeah. And I mean, of course it could have been an accident still, but it's just, there were a lot of people there and there was a lot of drinking and other things being passed around. So whatever, but. of people there and there was a lot of drinking and other things being passed around, so whatever. But, so, you know, of course you have Jean who was celebrating her birthday.

So by all accounts, they had gotten along well and there were no conflicts reported. But like Talia had mentioned, I mean, in some of these interviews, she does sound rather annoyed, I guess, for lack of a better term. She sounds like a nasty little thing. But I mean, there was no evidence

that she was involved in any foul play, but it's just, like people aren't convinced that she might not have disclosed everything that happened to that evening, basically. So then we have her boyfriend Jose. And he was one of like I had told you earlier, only two men who were present. And as we also mentioned, it was like, he kind of, when he had called 911, he was kind of making these odd comments, like, oh, she has a cut, it may have been self-inflicted.

I don't know, I just feel like it was a sort of leading, I wouldn't necessarily think if I found somebody laying in the grass that had apparently fallen from a balcony, that I would be like, oh, and there's also a cut here and it looks like she did it. Like, I don't know. No, exactly. A comment on that thing about the cut,

because to see the cut, it was like in the wrist area. That's what they said, right? Yeah. Yeah, and it was only an inch. Don't they have to get close to see that? And they- Good call. And they all said that, like,

no one had gotten close to the body, so how can they see it from their distance? Yeah. So once again, I'm just like there's so many things that just don't add up. Yeah. So and with Jose there was another thing that wasn't great which was... So originally he was cooperative with the investigation, but then two months later, he actually made headlines for a different reason because he accessed the incident report on Tamla's death

from his work computer. I guess, you know, whether that was out of curiosity or something. And in December, 2018, when this came to light, Jose was fired from his county job for improperly looking up the confidential report. Oh. Oh, okay.

So, and it was kind of like this development of a witness sort of snooping into the case file, of course caught the attention of people and fueled online suspicions. Yeah. And it did lead police to explicitly ask Jose if he had anything to do with Tamla's death. How damn time. Right. Including if he had just literally pushed her off the deck and he firmly denied it. Of course. So but, you know, Jose's termination around Jose's termination and the mystery

around Tamla's death just became very like intertwined in the public's mind. Of course. So however, even though when he looked up the case, it was unethical, it, you know, did not, it was never proven that that he did any foul play. Gotcha. Then, of course, we have Madeline, who was John's aunt. And I mean, like I said, that was just strange in the fact of the complete non urgency of what was happening. And in her police statement, she just initially said that she assumed that Tamla was asleep Girl, you know face down in the yard But then when she realized something was wrong she eventually alerted

Okay, and Jose I don't care if like somebody is asleep face down Like I'm gonna go out there wake them up and tell them to get inside. Like, oh my God. So some internet, little investigators of their own, right, on the internet, they questioned why Madeline didn't call 911 immediately. Yeah. But according to the official records,

it looks like she likely spent just a few minutes confirming what she saw and then going up to, you know, going to wake up the couple. So the 911 call came in roughly 15 minutes after her initial discovery. After her getting down on her hands. That's what I was thinking. Yeah. Right. A lot could's what I was thinking. Right.

A lot could have happened. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, back to Jose. And then in terms of like all of the... That's all right. No, go ahead. Talia?

Talia, you want to go ahead? I think she's on a bit of a lag. Yeah, she is. I thought it was better, but it's not. Oh, God. Just go on without me. Go ahead. No, no. You're going. That's fine.

So, yeah, I was just saying that... No. No. That's fine. So, yeah, I was just saying that, that some of the other attendees, you know, Bridget Fuller, I think she was the one who had the Xanax in her necklace. And from what I heard, it was because she suffered from panic disorder and it brought her comfort to literally have it within reach at any time.

No, I'm not saying that doesn't mean she wasn't sharing it with people by any means. Fair. Oh, she had a reason to have it. Okay, also, how much Xanax can you carry in that necklace? I don't know. I was wondering. Right? Because I don't think they ever showed a picture

of the necklace, but I picture it to be one of those ones that you like unscrew and it's like, did she just mouth something or did you actually speak? I don't know. Oh, I was talking, you can't hear me? All we saw was your mouth moving and we didn't hear anything. Oh, I haven't been using my microphone at all, yet. All we saw was your mouth moving and we didn't hear anything.

I haven't been using my microphone at all yet until right now. Should I have been? That might explain it. I don't know if that really made a difference. Oh, all right, that makes me feel better. Oh, all right. That makes me feel better. My suspicion is that you don't even have that microphone set up. That's just my suspicion. Let me try to see how the hell they're doing.

I'm going to be able to... Thank you. There was no way. I'm gonna be able to... Thank you. There was no way I was gonna be able to police her from... Oh my god, don't change anything now, for the love of god. Oh, okay. Okay. Leave it. I guess I don't have to use this then. One last thing. No, you sound fine. It's great. It's all good.

Yes, you do sound okay, which is why I didn't bring it up before. Thank goodness. All right, thank you. I wondered why you were't yelling at me. All right. Keep it where it was. Yeah. All right, okay. Okay.

All right, Talia, do you wanna pick this back up and try to take us home? Sure. Well, I don't know about that. I don't think I'm ready. Okay. So. Well, I don't know about that. I don't think I'm ready. Okay. So, oh, you know what? I skipped around.

I was gonna say, why was I talking about some of this already? Well, I jumped the gun a little bit. So I started, can you hear me? Yeah, I can can you hear me? Yeah, yeah, I can hear you. Okay, so I already talked to you. Like, see, I color coded this for all of us. I know I redid it.

I did it. I know I'm green because she started reading. But I think she picked I think she started a little down further than what she meant. I did and then I went back up again. But you know what, we are nothing if not transparent. Hell yeah. We're professionals. Yeah, if these, if your listeners like this kind of bullshit, then great.

Oh, they love it. They've sticked around. Yeah, if these if your listeners like this kind of bullshit then great They've sticked around they're gonna love you All right, all right where we thrive they're gonna be like this is what we signed up for yeah So they officially ruled Tamla's death as an accident. The family was not convinced of this though. So they just, you know, were very vocal about questioning this like narrative that the sheriff's department put out there of what supposedly occurred, plus the reports from the people at the party. The husband, Tamela's husband kept saying just how she was very coordinated even when

she was under the influence. He kept saying that he knows she could have driven that night even though her blood alcohol level was so high. He's like, you know, that does sound awful, but I know her and she just had a really high tolerance. So to imagine her being clumsy as a result from drinking, she wasn't prone to accidents. Even her sister had said this, it wasn't just the husband. It was hard for them to reconcile with like the severity of her injuries that that was just from the fall, that nothing else had happened or that I don't know if they were thinking like she was assaulted or what, but just that they didn't think that that was consistent, that there was nothing else. They felt that there were so many inconsistencies with the differing witness accounts. You know, like, when, who saw Tamla when, what time, over the course of the night. They felt that there were a lot of time line gaps and

that the investigation was just, it was a little too perfect at the conclusion and also wasn't even open for that long. Like, it was closed pretty quickly. So by late 2018, Tamla's family had inquired and got an independent second autopsy. So her body had to be exhumed for this and then this happened out of state. And this was completed sometime in 2019 and this autopsy found additional abrasions and markings on her body that were not fully documented originally in the initial autopsy which you know I think is pretty disturbing like how did they did a little things or did they just not document what they found I mean and I you know she obviously her body was battered from this

fall or from whatever happened to her. So I don't understand why they wouldn't have had everything document. It just doesn't make sense to me. Um, so they the family just doesn't make sense. No, no, no. And they felt the family felt that something like like that there was some sort of a struggle prior to her passing away. That even, like that something just- It also adds up to the reason that they didn't take that many pictures of the crime scene and all that stuff.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Oh yeah, exactly. Why wouldn't you have, like, you would think that would be a part of any investigation but conveniently not in this one and If you look this case up, I think not obvious thing for me I was just saying I think the biggest thing for me is Just the idea of like her lying face down on the floor with her like her arms down to her sides you take a look at that that is not how somebody falls off a balcony hell like it's that's just not like you don't land face flat on your face you're probably gonna land on your back somehow like

your head is gonna be crooked your neck neck's gonna be broken. You don't just fall face flat. That's not how it works. Yeah. Exactly, exactly. Whether she was conscious when she fell or not. The base thought I have. No, you're totally right. Something is just very screwy about it. And like that somewhat, I don't know,

maybe it's like, did they position her? It just, the whole thing seemed like a setup of some kind, whether it was with what happened to her, the body positioning, other evidence. I just feel like so much was swept under the rug. And with pictures, granted, it's different than like crime scene photos, but if you look this case up,

there are so many pictures that the women took during this party. I don't know, I just feel like it was basically documented until it wasn't. Just, I don't know, I just feel like it was basically documented until it wasn't. Just, I don't know, just very shady. I feel like that's all I have, because then it goes into Jose,

who we've really kind of torn apart, so, and about his firing. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. So you're up, I think. I know that in 2020, there was a petition to reopen this case because people were just not happy about it.

Good. So I guess it got over 700,000 signatures. Wow. Huge. So I guess it got over 700,000. Wow. Huge. And so they did eventually reopen it and it took over a year. And so, you know, everybody was waiting to see what was gonna be found out.

And then finally in July of 2021, it was announced that there was a conclusion to this reinvestigation, but unfortunately it was not what Tamla's family had been hoping for because they still said that they found no evidence of foul play and they didn't pursue any kind of criminal charges. And they made a public statement

and the Forsyth County District Attorney Penny Penn Wow lovely name Original who named You know it, it's like Johnny John. Oh my god, yes! Yes! Oh my god! The delay just makes this funnier. All right, Talia, I'm gonna read something quick, okay? Okay! All right. So Penny Pen said, there was no evidence that anyone else was responsible for, for Tamla's death or that foul play was in any way

involved. The facts overwhelmingly indicated that she died as a result of a tragic accident. So obviously nobody was you know in terms of these like internet sleuths and these people who were trying to like fight for justice I mean that, that wasn't really the best outcome, I guess. But that's that's what they determined. And yeah, I don't know. I mean, all around, as we as we obviously have seen, it was just a really, it was just a really crappy way, I think, of handling not only the investigation, but literally what happened in the beginning, like the death itself. A hundred percent. You know, it was just at the end of the day, like I said, the official line is just that

it was a tragic accident and it was just a perfect storm of alcohol and an elevated deck and just somebody lost balance and all of that stuff. So yeah, it's a really unfortunate case and I don't know. I don't really know what else to say about it besides, I guess it's just, it's not very, it doesn't have a satisfying ending basically.

It does not. It doesn't have a satisfying ending, basically. It does not. I feel like the choice of wanting a satisfying ending to a true crime case is kind of like a weird podcaster, like true crime podcaster thing to say, but I don't know, it's the reality of it. Like there's not the closure that everybody and especially your family like wants and needs well

and I think that's where it's difficult because when you're so when like as her family is so convinced that this like as Talia mentioned her husband kept talking about how you know whether or not this was a good thing or not, but she really did handle her alcohol extremely well. So he was just convinced that like, she, cause I heard an interview where he said that she drank like a bottle of, you know, insert whatever kind of alcohol,

and then she was still able to like, do the salsa. Like to dance in like five inch heels and stuff. So salsa, thank you. Wow. That was a prompt response from Talia. Yeah. It was actually really interesting. You guys didn't react to it though

for about 30 seconds from when I said it. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Damn. seconds from when I said it. Damn. But anyway, I always like to end the stories by asking Talia if she has any final thoughts.

She normally doesn't, but let's see if she does. Just let's wait five seconds. I was gonna say I do not, but I do. I just don't know who I'm more pissed at or distrustful, mistrustful, distrustful of. You know, I think I don't trust these women. I just think something, I'm not saying they necessarily murdered her, but I just feel like if something went on there, even if it was an accident, I feel like they covered

it up and they all rallied around each other and like hung her out to dry and just to like, just like to respect her family and like, just put the truth out there of whatever happened and I just think they're out to protect themselves. And then the police department completely blew the entire thing and just unapologetically and that's it. And I just think it was such like a grave disservice to her family and such a disrespect to them and to Tamla. I think it's a bunch of bullshit.

So. Agreed. respect to them and to Tamla. I think it's a bunch of bullshit. Agreed. I think that's really well summed up. I feel like it mirrors a lot of people's thoughts about this case. So I guess I should say thank you for having us. Yeah, thanks guys. Yeah, thanks for coming on. Yeah, thanks for pushing through the difficulties. I'm upset that there was no closure even after the kids was reopened,

but I'm glad that it got reopened and they pushed people to actually do something even though nothing came out of it. But yeah, thank you for coming. This was fun. It was. Yeah, you know, I would just like to say that if you do happen to tune into Chillworthy,

we don't have this lag normally. So, now you have- Yes, they don't. You know, just as funny except in real time, not in seven second late time. I'm so sorry everybody. Thank you for your patience. So, yeah, and with that, do you want to tell our listeners where they can find you? Would you like to tell or do you want me to I sure can give her a second? Yeah Yeah, all right, so

You could listen anywhere where you get your podcast you guys our Instagram is at chill worthy We're also on. Oh, oh. Cameo. Oh, never. We're also on Blue Sky and Skylight at Chillworthy podcast. And we have our YouTube at at Chillworthy podcast. Oh, my God. Would you look at that? Yeah. So, yeah. But, you know, Chill worthy podcast. Oh my god. Would you look at that? Yeah So yeah, but You know

Normally, I would do a nice little sign off with Talia, but since I can't I'm gonna just do all of it Okay, go ahead. Yes, which is what we always say is and as always everybody stay safe and stay chill Love it. Thank you. Alright, well thanks for being here guys. It was super fun to have you. First collab we've done. Yeah. You know, I think it turned out mostly well, you know.

Yeah. Only our second, but it was nice. It was definitely nice. Awesome, yeah. And with that, goodbye everyone. Alright, see ya. Bye! Thanks for listening to Chambers of the Occult.

For photos, sources, and anything else mentioned during the episode, check out our website at chambersoftheoccult.com. You'll find everything you need there if you do find yourself wanting more. You can also follow us on all of our socials at Chambers of the Occult and on Twitter at C.O.T O T O Podcast. If you have any questions, comments, recommendations, personal anecdotes, or concerns, let us know. Fill out our contact form on our website, email us at chambersoftheoccult.gmail.com or leave us a message on our socials.

We would love to hear from you. And if you enjoyed what you heard, we would greatly appreciate it if you could drop a like, leave a comment, and subscribe. It is absolutely the best way to show your support, and it would mean the world. Until next time. Thanks for watching!