Change Your Brain Every Day - Attachment Theory: How it Manifests in Relationships, with Dr. Sharon May

Episode Date: December 16, 2019

We spend a great deal of our time searching for someone with whom we can share our lives without threat of abandonment. But even after we find that person, we may still have feelings of insecurity. In the first episode of a series with couples therapist and author Dr. Sharon May, Dr. Daniel Amen and Tana Amen discuss how to find safe haven in your relationship.

Welcome to the Brain Warriors Way podcast. I'm Dr. Daniel Amen. And I'm Tana Amen. In our podcast, we provide you with the tools you need to become a warrior for the health of your brain and body. The Brain Warriors Way podcast is brought to you by Amen Clinics, where we have been transforming lives for 30 years using tools like brain spec imaging to personalize treatment to your brain. For more information, visit amenclinics.com. The Brain Warriors Way podcast is also brought to you by BrainMD, where we produce the highest quality nutraceuticals to support the health of your brain and body. To learn more, go to brainmd.com. We are so excited this week. We have a very special guest, actually one of my friends. He's been a friend for a long time. But one of the most important

things in life is how we are connected to other people. And Dr. Sharon May is with us all week. She is the founder and president of Safe Haven Relationship Counseling Center. She received a PhD in marriage and family therapy and a master's degree in theology from Fuller Graduate School of Theology. She is the daughter of Archibald Hart. That's, I think, where I met her. I love her father. He is the author of a number of really great books. And she actually is the author of How to Argue So Your Spouse Will Listen from Thomas Nelson. We need that for our children too. And Safe Haven Marriage, which she wrote with her dad.

She speaks all over the world to couples, executive pastors, counselors. She and I share a number of patients together. And I just don't think we can get enough of how we can get along better with each other. Thank you so much, Sharon, for being with us. Yes, thank you. Oh, thank you for having me. It is such a delight. So what are the problems you see that people typically run into when it comes to involve their intimate relationships? You know, we have been created and we're wired to be in relationships, to love and be loved, to be seen and heard and feel we're cared for and we were cherished or at least really liked.

And when we marry, we have the hopes of finding this one relationship where we will have what I call a safe haven that I can turn to you and feel loved and cared for. And I can trust you with my heart. And I know you're going to be there for me. And at the end of the day, no matter how much we are so different and we argue all the time that we can curl up in our safe haven knowing that you're there for me. And couples will fight for that and will even divorce to find that. And the way we go about getting the love we long for, keeping connected in marriage, working out our differences, being refined, because marriage is not just about happiness, it is about where we become our best version of ourselves. And that is through, you know, arguments and having to get along and intertwine our lives. And couples, we really spend a lot of energy trying to say, just hear me out, just care for me, love me. And why did you do that? Do you still care for me, love me, value me? And we spend a lot of energy

trying to find and keep that safe haven. I love that. So tell us a bit of your story and how you came to really be interested in relationships and helping them heal. You know, I was always, ever since I was a young kid, I would read my dad's psychology books. He was an engineer training to be a psychologist and would grab his books. I can remember being 10, 11, 12,

trying to understand. So I've always been interested in why do we connect and love? And then went, went of course to UCLA and would watch fellow students why did they date that person why did they stay dating that person you know they just shouldn't and and being very curious of it I then went back to graduate school in my 30s. And I wanted to do couples therapy. I wanted to help couples connect and love relationship is just hard and marriage is hard. And, you know, when you get married, you think, oh, this is going to be so easy. And it's not.

And then you're like, did I marry the wrong person? Because it's not easy. No, that is marriage. Marriage is difficult. Once you know that, you can then say, okay, now I can work on it. So I remember being in graduate school, so excited to do marriage counseling. And my first couple came. And at that time, the model that was taught in graduate school was more cognitive behavioral. Stop doing what you're doing. Do more of the positive things. Do less of the bad things. And I remember sitting down with my couple and they were arguing about chores.

Who was going to do what chore? And who was going to do the dishes and take out the trash? I said, this is great. I'll take out my whiteboard and I'll do a chore chart. And then who knows who does what? Then you eliminate the arguments. And then teach them communication skills. You know, you hold the mic and this is how I feel.

Now you hold the mic and we change the mic. Well, after three sessions, they called me and said, you're the worst marriage therapist we've ever been to. You're fired. I remember being devastated. What? I want to do marriage counseling. I try to do then, you know, kids therapy. No. So I remember talking with a fellow colleague, Brent Bradley, husband and wife, friend to friend,

even coworker to coworker, this bond that connects us, if it's safe and secure, we get along. And when we feel this bond is threatened, then the alarm sound, you're not there for me. You didn't take the trash out. The trash is not about the trash. Sometimes it is. You know, take the trash out. It helps me out. But a lot of times it's the meaning the trash takes on. If you didn't take the trash out, then I'm alone like I was growing up.

I then have no one watches over me and cares for me, just like when I was growing up. And the meaning that we put on, you didn't take the trash, is a meaning. I call it the dragon that puts a meaning that threatens the bond. Because you didn't take the trash out, it means you don't love me carefully. You're not there for me. And that then is what creates the biggest dragons. That makes so much sense. Wow. Because that's how- I just went back through my first marriage. I'm working on a new book called Your Brain is Listening. And it's basically listening to all of the stories that you created through your life it's listening

to the ants the automatic negative thoughts and it's listening to your brain whether it's working well or or not working and i was working on some of my own childhood stories i'm one of seven and so one of my stories is you're insignificant. And that's your dragon. And so that would be one of my dragons. And then so when my first wife, both of us have been married before, was not affectionate, then it just, the dragon came and ate me up. And it became probably more important. Well, no.

But it really became a bone of contention for us. So maybe it was less about the bone and more about the story. I love that. Behind the bone. Yes. So true. Yes. And so I always say that couples marry each other's dragons and the way we react.

Well, except when you were saying marriages are hard. I know, I'm thinking, but this time around, I got lucky. This time around, it's my safe haven. It's my safe haven. I feel safe even when we argue. You know, there's been maybe twice in our marriage where I felt like, okay, this feels scary. Yes. Which is pretty good after 15 years. And you're right, Tana. You know, we're all going to feel unsafe. That's wired in us. When our amygdala hijacks saying danger, danger, our amygdala

does not know the difference between a rattlesnake and our spouse's look on their face, tone of voice. Our spouse, you didn't take the trash out. You didn't do what I had hoped you would do. That makes me feel loved loved and we marry each other's dragons and it is as a husband and wife we learn how to tame our dragons change our stories is that dragon what it's saying to me true now or was it true when I was growing up or or a certain season of my life and how do I react when that dragon raises its head? So when I see the box of chocolates that there's not those, you know, peanut butter cups that I love, and my dragon says danger, danger, you know, you have to take care of yourself.

You know, the way I react is I just go quiet, I go self-sufficient and I pull back. Some people will say, you didn't take the trash out. Zero to 60. How come you don't? I'm the only one that takes care of this home and no one's there for me. And as soon as you hear the story you put on an event, you have to slow down and say, is this true in this moment? Or was that true growing up or in another season? Is this my dragon, my fear, my vulnerability? It's so true.

So when we come back, we're going to talk about the kinds of dragons that may be in your relationships. So interesting. So be interesting. I'm curious about your dragons. Well, I just can relate to so much of what you're saying, and I'll bring it up in the next podcast. But there's just especially one part of your technique that I love. So if you want to learn more about Dr. Sharon May, she's the author of How to Argue So Your Spouse Will Listen, also Safe Haven Marriage. She does intensives for

couples. How can they learn more about your work, Sharon? Yes, they can go to our website, safehavenrelationshipcenter.com, and they can find out information about the marriage intensives for individual couples and the group intensives we have called Grow Together. Love that. Stay with us. If you're enjoying the Brain Warriors Way podcast, please don't forget to subscribe so you'll always know when there's a new episode. And while you're at it, feel free to give us a review or five-star rating as that helps others find the podcast. If you're considering coming to Amen Clinics or trying some of the brain healthy supplements from BrainMD, you can use the code PODCAST10 to get a 10% discount on a full evaluation at amonclinics.com or a 10% discount on all supplements at brainmdhealth.com.

For more information, give us a call at 855-978-1363.