Change Your Brain Every Day - Daniel Gokey on Past Trauma & His Battle with Scrupulous OCD (EXCLUSIVE)

Episode Date: March 31, 2025

In this powerful episode, singer and former American Idol finalist Daniel Gokey reveals what he calls his “deep, dark secret”—scrupulous OCD. For the first time publicly, he shares how obsessive religious thoughts convinced him he was beyond forgiveness. Dr. Amen explains this misunderstood OCD subtype and how Gokey’s brain scans uncovered the root of his terrifying thoughts—and helped chart a path to overcoming scrupulosity. 00:00 Intro 01:17 Sponsor 02:26 Daniel/Scrupulous OCD 05:22 OCD and Sin 08:36 Fear of Damnation 12:41 Compulsive Behaviors 16:14 Thought Discipline 20:40 The Concept of “Normal” 22:10 Medication & Supplements 23:55 Trauma 26:59 First Wife’s Death 30:16 ADD 31:21 The 4 Circles 37:56 Daniel’s SPECT Scan (Surface) 39:55 Daniel’s SPECT Scan (Active Interior) 44:47 Improving Daniel’s Brain 48:23 Sponsor 49:49 Wrap Up

I remember them making fun of me because I'm eating a ball of cereal and I'm crying because I don't want to use the bathroom because I've somehow contrived in my mind I'm sinning against God if I go to the bathroom without my dad's permission. So I've got a full bladder, tears in my eyes, family making fun of me, a frustrated dad. Just go to the bathroom. Just go to the bathroom. You don't have to ask. But you don't understand the way my mind worked is that I did not want to go to hell. Maybe that's the underlying fear. Every day you are making your brain better or you are making it worse.

Stay with us to learn how you can change your brain for the better every day. In this week's episode of the Change Your Brain Everyday podcast, I am joined by musician Danny Goukey. Daniel was the third place finalist on the eighth season of American Idol. Daniel and I discuss his battle with scrupulosity. Scrupulosity is a subtype of obsessive-compulsive disorder involving religious or moral obsessions. This part of Daniel's life has never been shared before publicly. I hope you enjoy this conversation.

Are you struggling with anxiety, depression, obsessive thinking, past emotional trauma, ADHD, or brain fog and don't know where to turn? Are your relationships a mess and you don't know why? Have you had a brain injury, concussion, or just don't feel the same after COVID? Is your memory worse than it was 10 years ago, or do you have a parent or grandparent with dementia and want to work on prevention? Yes, prevention is possible, but the sooner

you start, the better. For 35 years, we've been changing people's brains and their lives using brain-spec imaging and and a personalized natural approach to brain and mental health care. And we have some of the best published outcomes anywhere. Go to amenclinics.com to learn more. And when you call us, mention Podcast 10 for a 10% discount. The big idea is with a better brain, everything in your life is better. Okay.

And you have tried to get help. Yeah. But no one's looked at your brain. Nobody. And if you don't look at the brain, you're flying blind. Yeah. And I'm sort of not okay with that. And as much as you suffered, you've actually not gotten great help.

No. So, um, I read your history. Thank you for doing that. Um, I looked at your checklist. Thank you for doing that. I looked at your testing. I've looked at your scans. I have a good idea. What's going on?

Do you because I got confused through all of it. And we've actually never done a show on scrupulous OCD. Yep. And I didn't know that. But yours fits that. Yeah. But it's like, well, why do you have this? And I want to hear from you your goal. So it's always the first thing I'm really interested in. Okay, so my goals are to just have a healthier me personally. I don't think I realized till I was in my forties that a lot of this is unhealthy because my coping mechanisms went so far deep that I didn't realize they were coping mechanisms.

I just, these things I went to to get out of my, you know, my falls when I felt like I was falling and I couldn't get out of the darkness. But so now it's to get me to a healthier place course, but also to recognize it in my children. Because this is something that wasn't talked about at all. And this could have, I think it could have been talked about my family because I think there's other people suffering with it and kind of made their way through it. I just suffered with it for a very long time. Okay. So hope, healing. Yeah. And then helping your family. Yeah, my kids especially. Because I feel like I've noticed

some of the things already in them that I went through as a kid that I didn't tell anybody. Like what? So scrupulosity is a religious type of OCD. I had, so being raised in a really fundamental, like very, my grandfather got saved at 40, became a Christian at 40. I mean, you know, he started a church, we started going to church, but it was a very strict church. And maybe if I were to say this probably to my family, I think I've talked to my dad about this. My dad's like, no, we weren't, we weren't that way.

So there's one way that I've walked away from that. Maybe it's just how I receive things, right? I think I've come to learn in my 40s that maybe they weren't strict. Maybe just my receptors in my perspective of what they were teaching just hit me in a certain way where I was like, oh my God, I'm gonna go to hell. If I sin, I better get this act together, right? So part of the OCD that started is I couldn't control my thoughts. So I'd have very horrible, terrible thoughts against God, against Jesus. And that freaked me out.

Because instead of just letting a thought pass through me, all of a sudden the thought was there and something's wrong with me, even though I didn't want this thought. And so that's where the downward spiral started in my life, but I wouldn't tell a single soul. I remember having a dream as a kid where I, um, I remember in the dream I told my dad, like, dad, these thoughts are in my brain. I don't want them. Um, like thoughts are like F God, F Jesus. I mean, as it gets, I don't even like saying that,

you know, cause this has affected me so much, but, and I remember my dream, my dad was like, F God, F Jesus. I mean, I don't even like saying that, because this has affected me so much. But, and I remember my dream, my dad was like, you cannot think that way, that you're going to hell. And of course that wasn't, wouldn't have been my dad's response had I told him. But anyways, so- But it was your brain's response. It was my brain response. And so now the question was, how am I recognizing my kids?

A couple of years ago, I noticed my son, my oldest son, he must have been around seven years old. I heard him say, shut up something. I just heard him say shut up, and he was sharing a room with his brother, Gabriel, at the time. And his brother Gabriel would have been about three years old.

I go, Danny, what'd you say? And he got real timid. Danny, what'd you say? I walked back to his room while he was in bed. He said, I said, shut up, devil. I go, oh, what? I recognized right away. He goes, daddy, I get, shut up devil. I go, oh, what? I recognized right away. He goes, daddy, I get these thoughts in my head.

Stupid God, stupid God, stupid God, it won't stop. And immediately at like, he was six or seven, I was able to tell him, Danny, those are not your thoughts. Number one, there's nothing wrong with you. I used to struggle with that one. But I didn't get too much into my story. I was like, you need to know that

there's nothing wrong with you. And when those thoughts come, you don't have to fight it. Just let them pass right through. But for me as a kid, it meant so much because something was wrong with me. I needed to fix that. And that's where the OCD and the coping and the ritual started with like over washing my hands,

sitting up straight. I remember if a teacher, like I would follow law city. If a teacher said, you gotta shut up straight because your back, you know, it's good for your back. That was a law. And if I didn't do that, that was a sin against God. And so I had back pain as a kid, scabs all over my hands. I couldn't even use the bathroom.

I remember my dad got frustrated with me. I'm laughing now, but you know, it wasn't funny at the time cause I couldn't even use the bathroom without my dad's permission. I remember my dad said, wash your hands before you eat. If I touch my lip while putting the chip in my mouth, that means my lip wasn't washed. I need to go back, wash my hands.

And that's how I got scabs. There is a thought process that I'm spit balling right here, but there's a thought process that goes along with why this could be a sin and how I better avoid it. I remember my father, my sisters and my brother, I have four sisters and a brother. I remember them making fun of me because I'm eating a bowl of cereal and I'm crying

because I don't want to use the bathroom because I've somehow contrived in my mind, I'm sinning against God if I go to the bathroom without my dad's permission. So I've got a full bladder, tears in my eyes, family making fun of me, a frustrated dad, just go to the bathroom. Remember this?

Just go to the bathroom. You don't have to ask, but you don't understand the way my mind work is that I did not want to go to hell. Maybe that's the underlying fear. I don't know. So when did that start? Do you remember? I think as low as six years old, I think I remember as a young kid, this is so weird. I would, I don't know why this was a thing, but maybe five or four years old,

I would start betting God on things. I bet God that I can kick that soccer ball to that. I don't know, as weird as that sounds, there's a connection right there. And then I remember playing soccer around seven or eight years old and starting to think like, Lord, if you don't hold the universe together, if you mess up, I remember having this conversation

with God, playing soccer. If you sin, we're all, we're all screwed. We're all screwed. Don't sin. Don't mess this world up. As I process talking with you, it was just fear after fear after fear after fear. And you're saying if you sin. Yeah. Cause we're all going to hell already. But if you sin, you can't even save us. Oh, if God saves us. Yeah, God, if you sin. That's so interesting. My brain went to just weird-

Now you're thinking about that at such a young age. I don't know why I can't- In my head, I'm going, I wonder what his temporal lobes look like. Because that's where a lot of religiosity comes from. I don't even know what that is. So, temporal lobes are underneath your temples behind your eyes, they're on each side. And there's a researcher in Canada,

Michael Persinger, and when he stimulates the outside of your right temporal lobe, people have a sensed presence, they feel the presence of God in the room. So if God's gonna communicate with us, there's gonna be a neuroscience pathway for that to happen. But sometimes if that's busy that I've seen this a lot in little kids. It's like you're six and you're worried about going to hell. Now, if you had my mother, she told me, I think I told a lie or not. Anyways, when I was six, she'd start crying and said, I never thought I was going to have a son who was going to hell. So if I had your brain, that would have messed me up.

Probably already messed me up. So this started early. It started early. I stayed home from school, sick about a week. I must have been maybe 10 or 11 years old because I was so scared I was going to hell. I got physically sick. I didn't tell anyone, I just buried myself in my sheets. And I would, this is like a pervading thought throughout my whole life was that fear. And I thought I overcame it, but it would trickle up in other different areas. And so for most scrupulosity and OCD years blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the fear.

And that was the fear when I was a kid. I've committed the unpardonable sin. I can't go ahead and blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Just don't have an understanding of it, but. Because you had those. Blasphemous thoughts. Almost like Tourette thoughts. Yeah, definitely like Tourette thoughts on a wheel.

When my six year old son said, stupid guy was on a wheel, well, I can relate to that. It just won't stop, won't stop, won't stop. Just F God. So it's like a little mouse on an exercise wheel. Yeah. Can't get off. Yeah. And so I think it might- And nobody noticed this or it sounds like they did like- I think people noticed, but I don't think they did. I mean, I'm sitting up straight to the point of back pain. I can't go use the bathroom.

I remember these are seasons in my life. Hyperventilating. I remember one time in my mouth, I would have anxiety attacks and the doctor said, breathe into a paper bag. I don't know what that does, but I remember being pulled out of classroom. If I have an anxiety attack in class and breathing into a bag, it's really hard to explain. I just maybe, I didn't tell anyone. You just kind of seal it up, shut it away because you're ashamed. You're full of shame and you're embarrassed. That's a huge thing. I don't want people seeing

my flaws because will they accept me? Okay. So intrusive thoughts. What kind of compulsive behaviors did you have? You talked about washing your hands to the point where you had scams. Yeah. This is going to get, see, there's probably a whole plethora of people that listen to this podcast. So some are going to understand this some won't. In the faith, I always had this fear for years of God leaving me. So some of the coping mechanisms were like, open up the Bible to a verse and just God speak to me in this moment. You know what I'm saying?

If that didn't happen, he's left me. It's always a fear of God leaving me. I need a prophetic word. I need a visitation from God. I need, you know, it's some hyper spiritual thing to happen to bring assurance. So people who struggle with OCD and religious OCDs, they need assurance nonstop.

God, are you with me? God, are you here? I feel like I'm abandoned by you. And if I felt like I was abandoned by God, you want to talk about a spiral out and go into a deep place of depression? I mean, it's happened more times than I can count. You know, because you just don't have a grasp on it.

You don't have a solid foundation to stand on. So therefore you're doing some really weird things to get that assurance. As I looked at your history, these seem to be the important things to me. The first time you tried to get help, you were in your 30s? I didn't tell, I told someone, a youth pastor at 20 years old,

what I was going through because it got me to a point at 20, at 20 years old. So I was able to conquer it by the grace of God. Like something happened in my life, this thing that happened with God that just really kind of cleared it all up and And I got into a really good place and then around 20 years old, it kind of just, the door opened back up through, I think, some painful traumatic events that happened. It opened back up. And then there, so I, like I left my hometown at eight, at 20 years old, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and I went to Minneapolis to live with a youth pastor and his wife that were really influential on me.

And I remember telling him, finally just letting it out like, this is what I've gone through my whole life. I've never told a soul at 20 years old. I told him, you know, he didn't know what to do about it. He had never heard of it. You know, at that point I made a, I'm not telling a single person

after this. I just literally laid out the depths of who I was to who you are. You didn't have an answer. I thought maybe if I got this out that I'd get an answer and I'd feel better. Didn't get better. So I sealed up like a vault again. And I remember I got married at 24. I moved back to Wisconsin, got married at 24. And I remember on my wedding day, one of the thoughts that sticks out is I remember just sitting at the wedding table and just telling myself, my wife has no idea who I am. I'm a horrible person. I'm a blasphemer. I'm a, I've committed the unpardonable sin. She doesn't know this. Now, mind you, everything else, though, is I loved the Lord. I was at church. I was a worship

leader. I was serving. I had no desire to want to blaspheme God, but you had these thoughts, right? And so I just, you hide these thoughts that are on these cycles at times, thoughts that would make me go and I'd drop her off at home and I'd go vomit in a parking lot because I'm so stressed out. I'm so stressed out. These thoughts are on wheels again. You know what I'm saying? Anyways, then she passes away. That's another traumatic event that happens in my life.

So like. I wanna hear about that. You know, I call these thoughts ants, automatic negative thoughts. The thoughts that come into your mind automatically and ruin your day. And it becomes an infestation. So you need an anteater in your head to just like hunt them

down and move them out or turn them into protein. And there's nowhere in school that teaches you to manage the nonsense in your head. No. Isn't that crazy? It is. And I even think in my case, I don't know if because I made agreements with it, every time I thought it would happen and I would try to fight back that they just got like more, they got stronger.

Yeah, but no, that's an undisciplined, fearful mind. If you write them down and then correct them, I'll show you how. Over time they go away. Or they become like the weather. And there's a storm, but you let it pass. They have developed grooves in your brain or ruts in your brain and the more you're afraid of them, the stronger they become. Now that makes sense to me. We'll work on, we'll work on this. This is really important and a good OCD therapist should have helped you become masterful at

killing the ants. It's interesting though, like these things aren't much of a thing anymore. I feel like it's shifted now that I'm 44 years old. It shifted over to like, it's a, I don't even know how to explain it. There's just maybe other obsessions now. You know what I'm saying? It's turned into, because I was able to like

make some really big strides in my 20s and 30s and getting them out. At 33, I finally told, so my wife passes away. That's a whole story in itself, but I get remarried. And finally at 33, I finally told my wife, so my wife passes away. That's a whole story itself, but I get remarried. And finally at 33, I share with my wife and my manager, what was going on. They just like, I told him I had this deep dark secret that I've never really told anybody. And when I told them, I think they just thought it was, I was like,

I say this, I don't say this flippantly, but they literally thought it was like maybe being a child molester. And I told them I have these nuts. No, I think they just thought it was, I was like, I don't say this flippantly, but they literally thought it was like maybe being a child molester. And I told them I have these, and they're like, no, I have these thoughts. So they kind of laughed it off, like, oh my gosh, you're okay. But in my head, I'm like, I'm not okay.

It's interesting, the dichotomy, when I went and shared that with them, like they were really, they thought it was something else, but they don't understand my whole life, this was so important to me, how I thought about God, how I view God, am I accepted by God, you know? So telling people has not been the strongest answer. I did go see some therapies and some therapists.

I feel like nobody ever had an answer. I don't wanna blame them. Could it have been me? Like I said before in the beginning of this podcast? Did anybody look at your brain? No, and that's the difference. But maybe it's my perspective. So we have part of the answer. We have part of the answer. And you did some intense therapy and you said that was helpful.

Yeah, I've done some, I did intensive not too long ago, just because I noticed that I think all through the years of all that emotion is caught up with me and it's in my you know, what that book, the body keeps a score. I think now I am reaping what has been so all those years. Right now, I think one of my most difficult dispositions is my emotions. Because I've gone through so much hurt, because I've gone through so much pain, so much anxiety. It takes to live in anxiety, unhealthy anxiety.

And on top of that, I'm a Christian singer. So you're supposed to be this hopeful person, giving a message of hope and a message of Christ. But then on the inside, you're falling apart. hopeful person given message of hope and a message of Christ. But then on the inside, you're falling apart, you know, and that's almost like what do they call it? A dissonance? That's not, that's not good. Yeah, except everybody suffers.

Yeah. Right. I tried to do a study on normal people. Was so hard to find. We screened 3,000 people to find 128 normal people. And this was our definition of normal. You never had a psychiatric illness, not a substance abuser, didn't have a head injury. You're not in any medicine.

You don't have a first degree relative, mother, father, sibling, or child with a psychiatric illness. Normal is the city in Illinois or the setting on a dryer. You're normal, right? More than 50% of the population will have a psychiatric illness at some point in their

life. So welcome to normal. Now it's not helpful or optimal for you because it's created a lot of suffering. But I used to get this thought in my head when I was a young psychiatrist, that if I like, I think you're really awesome and you're normal and I want to get to know you. If I had that thought within three weeks, they would be in my office telling me about their disastrous marriage, telling me about the nightmares, telling me about their molestation. I'm like, it's just the human condition. It's part of why Jesus died for us because we have all fallen short of the glory of God.

So all right. Sometimes you take lorazepam if you're really feeling anxious. How often does that happen? Dr. Justin Marchegiani I mean, it's like the last ditch effort. I think have a bottle from a year and a half ago with only 30 pills in it that still has probably about 15 in it. Okay. So not off.

But, but let me tell you, I probably should have. Here's the thing. I'm a doer, religious, got to fix myself, white knuckle my way through. Well, why don't we fix you without that? That's addictive and can mess with your memory. I like that. Yeah. Would not be on top of my list. That's addictive and can mess with your memory. I like that. Yeah, would not be on top of my list. I mean, maybe 12. But not in the top 10.

Melatonin, magnesium help you sleep. Yeah. DHT blocker. Why? Try not to lose my hair. Okay. So what we thought of multiple vitamin fish oil, turmeric. Yes. Fiannay. Does fiannay help? I don't know. I got desperate. When I'm in a painful situation, if I'm, if things are hurting inside, I'll just go like to a whole foods or something like that and just what's good for the brain.

That's exactly what I go to for the aisle. What's good for the brain? Cause it's just little temporary things. We'll be a little more targeted for you. Whole foods. Okay. You filled out the checklist. Thank you. Um, these are the ones I sort of look at and think are important.

Some depression, um, sleep's not awesome. Feeling worthless, helpless, hopeless, guilty, easily distracted, panic attacks, get stuck, worry, some compulsive behaviors, experiencing recurring and upsetting thoughts about a past traumatic event. What would that be? I think going back to this and people might not understand this, when you think that you've committed the unpardonable sin, there are people who are in mental hospitals because of that. Because they feel like that God is excommunicated.

We're going to work, we're going to target that specific thought. But that's the, that was the thought has driven me through many depressions, many sleepless nights, many worrisome days, many, I mean, as much as I can tell you is, am I okay with God? Now, on this side, I will tell you I am. I believe I am because of what Jesus did on the cross. But all those years of that has left a residue, a residue of, I mean, I thought there's times I just wasn't going to make it. I mean, I went through something

a year and a half ago that, that made me once again triggered something on the inside of me that made me feel like maybe God's not with me. And it set me down a rabbit hole so deep. This is 2023, 2025 now, but 2023 this happened and I thought I was good. I thought I was out. I thought I was clean. I'd make it some good strides and to the point where I mean it was like I was having breakdowns. I could barely make I'm on tour and I can barely make it sometimes. Anyways, Yeah, you have episodes of depression with that are really clear, but I feel like it's deep in my but you never taken an antidepressant, which I find frustrating. Well, because I actually did go see a psychologist

and I cried the whole time. This 2018 I cried my wife. Usually you need to do this. Like kind of made me like making a deal with me. Like I can't, you need to be here for the kids. We need you. Like I can't carry all this weight. But I just, in that situation, I'm broken and unfixable. That's the only thing I could think about in that, in that psychologist. And then the psychologist, I was gonna say this.

It was just, I felt like a number did and could be my perspective. Don't want to cast, I'm just learning my perspective, it was just, I felt like a number. And could be my perspective, don't wanna cast, I'm just learning my perspective at time might be skewed. That's why I'm in the emotional state that I've been in and am. I can't sit there and just point the finger at people because maybe people were well-intended,

maybe that she was. I didn't do a little care at that time and I didn't get the care that I wanted from her. But I totally, and maybe you can correct me for wronging this, I totally believe a lot of my issues have been self-inflicted, have been self-caused. This can correct me for among this. I totally believe a lot of my issues have been self inflicted, have been self caused. Not this is not me shaming myself, has been just didn't know how to deal with things.

And so I went to a very fear mode instead of just a love mode being. I'm accepted. I'm OK. You know what I mean? Well, there's another choice in there, which is your brain was over firing. Yeah. And that wasn't a is your brain was over firing. Yeah. And that wasn't a choice. That wasn't a choice. It's like you have a heart arrhythmia and you're like, stop it.

It's like you can't. Yeah. And then my wife passing away, that also wasn't. What happened with that? Tell me. So got married, met her at church, 17 years old. She was 16 and she had a heart condition born with it. We prayed and believed that God was going to heal her.

She had a surgery when she was born, tricuspid atresia, surgery when she was born. When I met her- So for people who don't know that, that means one of her heart valves didn't develop. Didn't develop. Right. So they had a surgery right away to make sure they can get oxygen to her heart. And so when I met her, she had, they had that little zipper scar they call a zipper. I don't know what the technical term, but it's known as a zipper.

I met her at church. You know, you see a scar, oh, the doctors fix you. You're okay. Well, first year of marriage, we dated for six years. I was 24. Yeah, I was 24. No, 25 at the time. And she's 24.

Her heart's beaten out of the time, she's 24. Her heart's beaten out of her chest, just walking upstairs and we take her to the hospital, we have to have another surgery. Very long story short, we're believing God that you're gonna heal, you're gonna do a miracle. God, we need you. She ends up, the first surgery goes wrong,

has to get on an artificial heart, on a transplant list. In two week period, we're praying, believing God she passes away. And once again, it triggered me into a place God has abandoned. It's so traumatic. God didn't hear my prayer. I'm so sorry. Yeah, I appreciate it. I mean, I mean, thank you, I should say.

Because you see God heal some people and not others. And that's confusing. At that time it was. I mean, it was. I mean, I went to Oral Roberts University. And that's confusing. At that time it was, I mean, it was, I went to oral Roberts university. So always faith healer. She was the faith healer. I mean, I've got, these are, these are people of the faith who went on and did great. Not everybody was healed and God uses doctors to heal people.

And still people go to the next place. Yeah. Right. So, and if you have faith, you believe this is an it, right? We're sort of all condemned to die. There's a great piece, you're filming this during the LA fires and there's a great piece, you're filming this during the LA fires. And there's a great piece C.S. Lewis wrote in 1948 about the atomic bomb. And he's like, why are you so upset that the scientists have found yet another way to kill you when you're all condemned to death? And if you're in the 16th century, the plague visited London almost every year.

And the Scandinavian Vikings could come in any moment and slitch or threat. Like he's like, still we're in the age of cancer, heart disease, car accidents. It's like, you know, the bomb comes or the fire comes, let it find us doing thoughtful things like talking to our kids or Did he have I kind of heard that he might have had some depression issues. He had actually lost his wife. Yeah. In fact, he wrote one of my favorite books of his called A Severe Mercy, which is the grief he went through and losing his wife.

It's a beautiful sad book. Wow. Yeah. So I think you'll like it. Anyways, back to you. Do you ever think you had ADD? Oh yeah. Tell me.

Even in this conversation, I notice how calm and and still and I could probably run circles around you Just all my things I gotta say and I'm observing that I'm like, hey Danny follow the lead right here But in my mind is that's ADD Right attention deficit disorder because I mean my brain is like I'm all these places and I want to get all this information out to you, but I'm noticing the calmness I'm like, well, he doesn't have ADD. I think I have ADD. Well, I just noticed some, so in a checklist,

trouble sustaining intention, easily distracted problems, completing projects. I gave you a whole bunch to do ahead of time and you did it at the last minute. And I'm like, oh, because I was like so prepared. And I'm like, where are my checklists? And they're like, oh, last minute. Drives my team crazy.

People who work for me. Better brain, better life. Better brain, less stress on our loved ones. Yes. Okay. I always see people in four big circles. So it's not you have scrupulous OCD take Lexapro. Although I might, we might talk about that. I always see people in four big circles. It's like what's going on in your brain and most psychiatrists never look. So last year there were 340 million prescriptions written

for antidepressants and nobody looked at their brain. And that's insane. Yeah. That was the one thing that I thought was unique about your approach is that I've told a few people what I'm doing and they go, wow, that makes a lot of sense. I get eye opening, but yet it's not like standard for... Right. And people call me crazy and I'm not crazy. So the first big circle and the first week of medical school at ORU, the dean came in our classroom and drew these four big circles on the board.

Never think of your patient as their diagnosis. Think of them in these four circles. So, the first one is biology. What's going on in your brain and your body? The psychology. How are your thoughts? What's your development like? The social circle. It's like what's going on in your life now, it would not surprise anybody, well-trained, that things got worse when your wife died because clearly traumatic. And it's the brain you bring into the trauma that often determines how you handle the trauma. And so, you know, as we think about the LA fires, who's going to develop PTSD, a lot of people, but often people who brought trauma into that traumatic. Yeah.

That's, that's a whole bar you just dropped right there because I've noticed my ability to cope with since it's been like one trauma after another. I love how you put that, because you put the words exactly what I would feel at times. Like, I can't handle anything else. Like that's, that anything else is gonna break me in this moment, because I'm, so yes, I digress, but that's a great way to put it.

You're bringing a traumatic brain to a traumatic situation. That's not a good, which is why people go, which is why when I take lorazepam is because dude, I was like, it's time to check out, pop a pill and just fall asleep. And then there's a spiritual of all these things. That you had a vulnerable biology, as we'll see, because I think you wrote your grandfather had a CD. Dr. Justin Marchegiani... My dad. Dr. John B. Reilly... Your dad. Dr. Justin Marchegiani... Possibly grandfather don't know because I didn't ever get to ask.

Dr. John B. Reilly... So somebody in your family and a child might have tendencies. So there's some genetic vulnerability. And then if you were not raised in a religious family, might have come out in other ways. It just came out in that way because God became really important. Dr. Justin Marchegiani Yes. And just to clarify, my dad had the same thing scrupulosity, but they even more so had no words for it. Right. He just had these thoughts, these blasphemies that go through his mind, freaked him out. He'd have to leave. My mom had six kids and they had my dad and mom had six kids. He had to go to my grandparents, ask my grandfather,

pastor, and they'd have to just try to work through it because it would just take everything away. But I didn't get to find this out for years there, which is interesting poses a question. And I love my dad and maybe hope he doesn't hear this. But I think about like, I wonder why, how did you not recognize that in me as a kid? Maybe he did and he just did his best he could, you know. And maybe it triggered him that He felt shame about it or was anxious. Because as a kid, when I would have those thoughts, I'd go to my parents' room, I'd wake up my dad and I would never, I tell dad, wake up. So he'd come to my room, wake him out of a dead sleep. And I'm like, dad, I have these really bad thoughts. I don't want to think about it.

What are they? No, I don't want to tell you. So I would never tell him. And so what he would do is just give me like, Flippians four, eight. These are the things to think on. So I would never tell him. And so what he would do is just give me like Flippians four, eight. These are the things to think on. So I think he tried, but I was a vault. So I found out, we've not had discussions in my 30s and 40s about how he had the same thing and how he worked through it. And you know. Well, and maybe the reason you had it is

you would share the pain and help thousands of people. That's the hope. All things work together for good. That's a life verse too. Yeah, that's a life verse. But all things work together for the good. For those who love the Lord. Yeah. So not for everybody, but I was talking to somebody recently.

It's like, I would have changed this and I would have changed that and I would have changed this decision. And then I wouldn't be me. And I'm sort of okay with me. Okay, maybe I need a little bit. I probably, here's my truth. The truth about that I feel about myself is that I would probably change some things. Because part of what I think about myself. But then you might not be you. I would probably change some things because part of what I think about myself, maybe that's a good thing. No, I'm just joking. Sorry. I do like myself. If anyone thinks I don't like myself, I do. I just would have made some better decisions. So ever heard of the book, uh, uh, feelings buried alive, never die. Basically I read part of this book cause I did a lot of reading buried alive,

never die. I like that. And she talks about in this book how you're basically born with two sets. People are, everyone's born with either like a fear kind of disposition or love disposition. And basically there's only two really ways of how basically, you know, how like you talk about, you know, the, they talk about generational curses, right? How you're more predisposed in your bloodline. If there's fear, you're more, or alcoholism or whatever. I think fear has been an hour.

So even as a young kid, whether you really, there's not, you're making choices, even if you don't know, you're making choices. So when you're making choices towards fear, it just kind of builds that fear thing. I'm not saying she said that, but that's kind of what I pulled away from that book. Does that make sense?

I think my disposition is set up just be like, oh, I'm loved and okay. It was something. Sort of what Einstein said. You have to decide, you know, is the world for you or against you? And let's look at your brain. Okay. So we do a study called brain SPECT imaging. SPECT is a nuclear medicine study that looks at

blood flow and activity, looks at how your brain works and it basically shows us three things. Good activity, too little or too much and then our job is to balance it. If it works too hard we want to calm it down. If it doesn't work hard enough, we want to stimulate it. This is what a healthy brain looks like. The images on the left are looking at the outside surface. The top left, we're looking underneath the brain. The top is the front. The bottom is the back. And it should just be full, even and symmetrical. Temporal lobes that I wanna look at, they're right here. When you think of religiosity, I think of that.

Here we're looking from one side, down from the top, all even, symmetrical, color doesn't matter, it's just the shape side. Now here the color't matter. It's just the shade side. Now here the color does matter. Blue is average activity. Red is the top 15%. White is the top 8%. So white's like a super active,

which should be here in the cerebellum. We're going to see for you that's not the case. You have a beautiful brain. Okay. Yeah, it's a little bumpy. Um. It's not like my wife. But everybody's got,

it's sort of like you're 40 and you have some wrinkles. When I see your brain compared to so many other brains we've seen, basically I think your brain's really healthy. You might've had a concussion or so in the past. You can see your temporal lobe here. It's a little smaller than this side. But I'd take that, right? I'm like not worried at all about it.

Okay. Busy here, calm here. And the calm, you said the calm, what part of that brain? So this is a part of your brain called your anterior, or the front singular gyrus, part of the suffering circuit in the brain. And it's sort of the brain's gear shifter, lets you go from thought to thought,

move from idea to idea, be flexible, go with the flow. It's like you have a little mouse in your head that's on an exercise wheel, and it can't get off. Many people get it stumped to just shut it up or drink or use lorazepam to calm that thing down. And then here, area called basal ganglia, insular cortex, these are all part of the suffering circuit in the brain. Yours is just too busy.

So we want to calm it down and we'll do about temporal lobe, especially the right temporal lobe, which is right here. It's busy. So the fact that you're deeply spiritual, that's a good thing. But you've been obsessed with it for way too long, and the hardware has pushed you to suffer. And if we calm the hardware, balance the hardware, you are gonna feel so much better. And if I teach you how to kill the hardware, you are going to feel so much better. And if I teach you how to kill the ants,

how to direct your mind to help you rather than hurt you, you have to have the hardware that will learn that. That makes sense? Oh yeah. So think of it hardware like software, my hardware is too busy. It doesn't let me shift properly. Balance that. You're going to be so much happier. And when you get in a state, this is probably worse.

So that's already not good, but it probably gets you. Oh no, this is great news because it helps us explain why you suffer. So we can balance this. Right, because you're saying there's too much activity, right? I'm saying, yeah. So we're going to calm it down. So if you would have saw me last year, it would probably lit up even more. Right.

Wow. And the team knows, I always talk about the diamond pattern, connect these dots, it looks like a diamond, and that's past trauma. And thinking you're going to hell, that's traumatic. If you care, right? If you believe and you care, you start to hate yourself. That's traumatic, especially if it happens year after year after year. After year.

And then you believe God's going to heal your wife and she dies. You then attack yourself. Yeah. Like if I didn't do that, maybe this wouldn't have happened. Yeah. Absolutely. That is a correct reading. I think the the years of me trying to balance this in a hidden place and then I don't know, I could tell you this,

the strength I had in my teens and in my 20s, started losing in my late thirties and forties to balance all this. You know what I mean? You just, you kind of lose the fight a little bit, which is why I feel like, you know, that year and a half ago, I would start waking up and just like, and this is shameful to say, because I just would wait for a lot of mornings last year in 2024. I woke up with such a heaviness and didn't know how to approach the day. And I loved when that all stopped. And I was like, I'm waking up hopeful again. But it's really difficult to manage that part.

When you wake up, you want to be well, you don't know how to get well. You want to live happily, but you don't know how to be happy again. It's almost like, like you said, the mind had programmed the physical brain or whatever it is to your physical brain was busy. It manifested with the OCD. And then you're attacking yourself because you can't fix it. But it's like attacking yourself because you couldn't fix type one diabetes. Right, right. It's ridiculous. Right from a rational standpoint, you can't control it.

But you're just so mad at yourself because you want to be better. You know, it's a vicious cycle. There was a missing piece. Your brain. Balance your brain balance your life. Amazing. I love that. I think from a diagnostic standpoint, I agree. From a brain perspective, your brain works too hard. And so our job, my job is to calm it down. So I'm want to get some labs on you and especially looking at the panda thing. I have a supplement I love called Happy Saffron. It's our number one. I did a post recently on Saffron versus Lexapro. So So Lexapro is an SSRI. And I think most psychiatrists, after

they talk to you for an hour or two, they put you on Lexapro. And it's not a bad idea. It's not the first thing I think of. I think let's see if we can do it naturally with saffron. It's got saffron, zinc, and curcumin. So you're already taking turmeric. You don't need to do that anymore. It's in it. 400 milligrams, highly potent. Take three of them a day. I also, I want to give you our multiple vitamin fish oil and a brain boost to help your memory be even better. And then and Neuralink because it'll help calm your brain even more. What is that? It's it's great. And it could be great for your son. I have thousands of children who take it because it just helps balance. It's a supplement. Five HTP, which is the serotonin precursor, GABA

calms down the noise and tyrosine to help you focus. Okay. And your son who you're concerned about is how old? He's seven. And I'm also concerned about the five year old, my set my 11 year old who noticed him first, like he's way better. I'll do checkups on how's your thoughts? Any recurring thoughts? Any? But it's my I'm noticing my, my two

sons, my seven and my five year old. Yeah. So for you, I'd actually take four twice a day for them. I'd do two twice a day. But I also, you can go online and I have a brain health assessment, brain health assessment.com take it and then just send me their results. And let's be friends. Right. You did this for us. I think of me as somebody on your team. And you might even do EMDR. EMDR is a specific psychological treatment for trauma. I'm interested in that one. I was, I was closed off to that one years ago, but I'm like really interested in that one.

It's so interesting. I did it with Paula and I have Paula's before and after brain. It's like calm to everything. It was really cool. So I would like to do some EMDR for sure. Questions? No, I think this is great. So we will actually give you the supplements for like six months. And so when you need more, just email Kim.

You met Kim, right? My assistant. Yeah. And me, I want to hear from you like every couple of weeks. We'll check in as we need to do. I love that. Thank you so much. we need to do. I love that. Thank you so much. Are you excited to optimize your brain and help the brains of those you love? Do you want to prevent or treat memory problems, anxiety or depression?

Do you want to be happier? That's why I created Amon University, to take what I've learned over the last 45 years and help you have a better brain, a better mind, and a better body. You can take courses like our 30-day happiness challenge which was shown in research to increase happiness by 32% in just 30 days, or memory rescue, or overcoming anxiety, depression, trauma, and grief, or healing ADD at home

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