Change Your Brain Every Day - Grief: What Do You Say to Someone? With Sandra Maddox

Episode Date: March 13, 2019

When someone close to us is going through the grieving process, we often want to do what we can to make that person’s experience a little more bearable. Sometimes we succeed, but sometimes we end up making it worse. In the third episode of a series on grief, Dr. Daniel Amen and Tana Amen are joined by Sandra Maddox, who gives examples from her own tragic experience to help teach the right and wrong things to say to someone in pain.

Welcome to the Brain Warriors Way podcast. I'm Dr. Daniel Amen. And I'm Tana Amen. In our podcast, we provide you with the tools you need to become a warrior for the health of your brain and body. The Brain Warriors Way podcast is brought to you by Amen Clinics, where we have been transforming lives for 30 years using tools like brain spec imaging to personalize treatment to your brain. For more information, visit amenclinics.com. The Brain Warriors Way podcast is also brought to you by BrainMD, where we produce the highest quality nutraceuticals to support the health of your brain and body. To learn more, go to brainmd.com. Welcome back to day three of grief week. This has been such an emotional week and I'm just so grateful to how candid our friend Sandra has been. And I just want

to say one thing. You can have a mentor. I think I've said this before, but you can have a mentor that doesn't know they're your mentor. You can follow people and model your lives after people that don't even know that you're following them. And that's sort of what I did with you because your story has always been one of my greatest fears. And so I never wanted to say anything to you about that because I always thought, what do you say to someone, which is what we're going to talk about today, what to say and what not to say to someone grieving. I never really wanted to say anything, but I always looked up to you. I thought, wow, she's got so much grace and so much strength. And she's just got such an amazing character. And if that happened to me, I don't think I would be that way.

And so you find people that have the strengths you want. So I love that. So I have a fun mentoring story. So Tana and I got into a fight about something. We were not doing well. And she told me, she sort of went to you and complained about me. And rather than what many friends do, which is, oh, yeah, he's really an awful human being and you should be mad. Yeah, never have friends that do that.

You reflected back how she could respond in a helpful way that completely diffused what went on between. And by the way, that is why I go to friends like Sandra. And I don't go to friends that I know are going to say, he's a jerk. Let's go have a drink. Like, I don't do that. I don't believe in having friends like that when you're married because it's not helpful. So the friends you have, think about the friends you have.

It's important to have friends who elevate you and respect your marriage. So I just, that's a huge thing. So I'm eternally grateful. And I think your fear about losing Chloe, because when we first met. I had to go to therapy over it. Yeah, no, I went to two we first met, that was huge. But it's common. It's what I've heard as being a psychiatrist last 40 years. It's a very common fear because when you love someone so much, the fear of losing them can really drive you a little bonkers. And I had a childhood that was full of trauma like you did.

So you wanted to be this mother. See, I related to your story on so many levels. I wanted to be a mother that, like my mom was a great mom, but she wasn't there and she was young and she didn't have education. She's a great mom for what she had experienced. Right. But she's not a great mom for what she had experienced. But she's not a great mom. But she was young. I'm finishing.

I want to honor my mother, though. And I love your mother. She is a great mother. Right. But we didn't have an education. We didn't have finances. She was gone all the time. So I wanted to be something different if I could.

And so that's why. And that fear. And I wanted to be something different if I could. And so that's why, and that fear, and I wanted to create that. And I just, I ended up with this fear that I didn't even want her out of my sight and it was hard. And when I saw you and I saw something different, I'm like, Oh, there's someone I can model myself after. And that's, what's so important. So actually I have a podcast review. I want to read, Overcoming ADD. I love Tana Amon's no-sense, no-nonsense approach to nutrition. And listening to the podcast has taught me many valuable lessons to help my brain, my life, especially when it comes to dealing with my ADD. This is from Alicia from the U.S.

Thank you for listening. Please leave more podcasts. Now in my new book, Feel Better Fast and Make It Last, please get it. There's a whole section on post-traumatic stress disorder and grief because there's so many people suffer with those issues that I thought, well, what are the ways you can feel better quickly? And part of it is a process, but there are clearly things you can do to hurt yourself and clearly things you can do to help yourself. And in it, while I was thinking about it, I thought, well, what are the things you can do to help yourself. And in it, while I was thinking about it, I thought, well, what are the things you really shouldn't say to someone who's grieving?

Well, one of the things somebody said to me was, you know, I just lost my dog. I know how you're feeling. Oh my God, no. So don't say that to somebody. Don't say that. Don't say that. Or your pet or something. And you're kind of like, oh, you know, and I understand. And loss of pet is really important. It's really important, but it's not the same thing. No, it's not. So, you know, the comparing to, to different, you know, their losses. And you can't compare losses. No, you can't.

Ever. No. So what do you think about the list? How are you doing? It's one thing not to say because they're doing terrible. How are you doing? You'll be okay after a while. Right.

I understand how you feel. You shouldn't feel that way. Stop crying. At least she's in a better place. At least she lived a long life. Many people die young. Well, I've had so many mothers who've lost babies. She brought this on herself. Aren't you over it yet? He's been dead for a while. People don't really say these things. They do.

They do. There is a reason for everything. They really do. God's in charge. Yeah. She was such a good person. God wanted her to be with him. Just give it time.

Time heals. Time does not heal unless you take the right steps. You're young. You can still have other children. Yes. children yes you'll do it better next time it was just a dog or a cat you can have another one stay busy don't think about it which is actually how Lincoln handled so Lincoln lost one of his children while he was in the White House and his wife actually became psychotic after that happened. He dug his son up several times because he couldn't let go.

It was so sad. And he worked to get over his grief. And he never really got over his grief. You have to be strong for your spouse, your children, and just move on. So did anyone say anything else to you? I want to see if they said anything else to her. No, those are pretty basic. Those are pretty things that, and actually they're hurtful. And I remember one time I was at the grocery store, I was at Bristol Farms and it was really early on. And a woman that I knew very well, you know, saw me and she

turned around and went the other way. She actually saw me. I saw her and she turned around the other way. She probably didn't know what to say. So it made her uncomfortable. Which grief does with people. Well, cause it's our fear. Yes, it is. And like, you don't want to look at that in the face kind of thing. So, you know, that in itself was hurtful. She may not have, you know, she probably just could have come up and just hugged me, you know, or just, I mean, really, there are no words that anybody is going to say to you to make you feel any better than what you're, you know, the ache in your heart. So, but when you don't say anything. But when you get disconnected from people you know, it's worse. Yes.

Yes. And that happens a lot in grief. I've been able to counsel a few people from, you know, Saddleback has said, you know, they just lost a child in a car accident. Can you go and talk to the parents? And so I wait for a while and call them. And a lot of times, you know, they're dealing with relatives and family that aren't, you know, cooperating or, you know, think it's all about them as well. And so a lot of times you have to put boundaries, you know, with certain people too, because the grief is, you know, you're, if you're wanting to be in that place of grief and experience everything, which is healing, you know, crying. I mean, it's closure, right?

So one of my very first, I never told you this story. One of my very first patients was a Lieutenant Colonel. I was in the army when I trained. It was a Walter Reed and he just had this rash all over his body and they couldn't figure it out. So they go, it's psychosomatic. And he'd lost his wife two years before and had never cried. And so it comes out in other ways, that stress. And your skin is actually one of the organs that plays stress.

And neck and back problems are a problem too. Yes. So one thing, Sandra, that I find interesting, because I watch you and how you handle things. I know that that's probably a pain. I don't know if it's a pain that doesn't go away. I would assume it is. But you're always going to think about her and love her and be a little sore, right? You're going to have that scar. But what I've noticed that you still do is you honor her. You still acknowledge her birthdays.

And I know you came up to me in January and you asked me to pray for you. And you said it's going to be a hard day because I just want my friends to pray for me and be around me. Because it was January, the date you said it was the anniversary of when the accident had happened. And I just thought that was amazing. I'm like, you got your family together and you celebrated her birthday. So you still do these things, but they don't seem, from my perspective, seem to impact you negatively. In fact, you seem to gather your tribe around you and you honor her and it strengthens you.

Yeah, I learned it was easier for me to embrace my grief on holidays and just let everybody know, hey, you know what? Yes, it's a happy time and my family's here, but someone's missing. It's like a limb. Someone's missing from our family. And so we acknowledge the fact, but we don't stay in it. We acknowledge her birthday, My siblings, we do things like, you know, she liked going to P.F. Chang's and listening to, you know, County Crows.

And so we kind of have our little things that we kind of do, you know, on that day of her birthday on April 5th. And so, and I do ask my family and my friends to pray for me because it is a struggle. Grief will never go away from my life. I mean, thinking about her, you just get, you get, it's not that you move on from it or anything. It's still there, but you are able to function in life with the reality that someday I'm going to see her again because I have a big picture of her in my hallway. The last picture that we had all taken, that was really a gift from the Lord.

She had come home for my birthday, and we took that picture, and it went out for everybody in January because I give out New Year cards. Everybody had that picture of Ron, Tiffany, and I in January as our New Year card. So that picture hangs in my hallway, and I walk by it all the time and i always say to her i'll see you in a blink of an eye because that's kind of what the lord says you know so because of what happened she her life has touched millions of other people what is the name of your book so it's it's it's that little shift um i want us to talk before we stop and then we'll stop and come back, is what are some things to say?

And I'm sorry for your loss because you are. And it's just honest. I wish I had the right words. Right, right. Please know I care and I'm here for you. You and your loved ones are in my prayers. I have someone who I'm very close to

whose husband's dying of cancer. And just the fact that I reach out and say, I'm thinking about you today. Is there anything I can do to help? They started a GoFundMe campaign to help deal with some of the expenses and I donated. Just to like, I'm connecting. Connecting. I can't imagine how you feel, which is honest. I can't imagine how you feel. It's honest, being honest. Unless I've gone through something similar.

I'm here for you. Can I go to the funeral, which is an often important sign of support. Want to talk about what happened. Just be present like your friend was. Share a memory. Be empathic. It's okay for you to share your feelings. Continue connecting even after months.

This is so important because people like they'll say one or two things and then they'll let you go because they don't know what to do. Listen for guilt. People who are grieving often feel guilty and wish they'd done something different. I've seen that so often. So an example from one of my favorite books called The Grief Recovery Handbook. Griever, my son committed suicide. I feel so guilty. Grief recovery specialist. Specialist, did you ever do anything with intent to harm your son? Griever, no. The dictionary defined definition of guilt implies intent to harm.

Since you had no intent to harm, can you put the G word back in the dictionary? You're probably devastated enough by the death of yourself. I never thought of it that way. All right. When we come back, more practical tips on dealing with something we're all going to do. We're half dealt with grief.

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