Change Your Brain Every Day - How to Battle Your “Relationship Dragons”, with Dr. Sharon May

Episode Date: December 17, 2019

When we argue with our loved ones, whether it be a spouse, significant other, or child, it’s often something under the surface that’s the real issue. According to Dr. Sharon May, we all have our dragons, and sooner or later they will emerge in all our relationships. In this second episode in a series with Dr. May, she and the Amens discuss what you can do to confront those dragons, regardless of whether they are a loved one’s or your own.

Welcome to the Brain Warriors Way podcast. I'm Dr. Daniel Amen. And I'm Tana Amen. In our podcast, we provide you with the tools you need to become a warrior for the health of your brain and body. The Brain Warriors Way podcast is brought to you by Amen Clinics, where we have been transforming lives for 30 years using tools like brain spec imaging to personalize treatment to your brain. For more information, visit amenclinics.com. The Brain Warriors Way podcast is also brought to you by BrainMD, where we produce the highest quality nutraceuticals to support the health of your brain and body. To learn more, go to brainmd.com. Welcome back. We are still here this week with our friend, Dr. Sharon May. And this is just so interesting. I love this idea of the safe haven marriage and

how to argue and be heard. And one of the techniques you talked about in the last podcast that really struck me that hit home was about your dragons are never about your dragons, right? The argument's never about the dragon. It's the dragon behind it. And so when you said that, it really hit me because that's just such a, that's been a powerful thing. I know, I'll give you an example. I was arguing with my three-year-old at the time, or four-year-old. She was just a, she was a handful when she was little. And there was a point where I got so frustrated because she was so stubborn that I did, thank God I didn't say it out loud. But in my head, I'm just like, you're just like your dad. So the arguing triggered

something from the past and it was such a toxic thought. How can I possibly then relate to this child in a loving way if I'm having this very toxic thought? So fortunately I caught it and I was like, oh, this isn't about her. This is about something that made me very angry in the past. I have to figure out how to communicate with her differently. And so that, but that, what I love that you said is this, she's arguing with me. And that means what she's not listening. And that means what she won't put her toys away. And that means what, rather than just arguing about the situation, actually taking a step back. And it means what? Because immediately I was able to connect it to my past. Yes, that is so powerful. And helping couples and parents understand that. And again, thank you so much for having me on your podcast.

I am so honored to be with the two of you and the work you're doing with individuals and couples and families is so significant. So thank you. But you're right. And that's what makes a healthy marriage and also healthy parenting is when we can understand what gets triggered in us, because it's not about the event, usually, right? It's about what that event triggers in us, and the meaning we put on the event. And sometimes we can say, you know, knock it off it off, just that thought, just forget it. And other times we have to process the thought. We have to usher the thought out of our mind, which means we have to name it, understand it, process it, and then we can tame it, mature it, or move it out. I love that.

Otherwise, we become people that just stuff emotions. Don't feel that. Don't think that it's wrong or bad to think that I'm not ever seen or someone's trying to control me or I'm not valuable. No one wants to hear my voice. I'm not significant. Those dragons, we need to pause and say, where did that come from? And is that true?

When was it true? And is it true today? And to comfort ourselves at that moment, be kind. Say, yeah, you know, my efforts were never seen. And so now I've, you know, done, I've baked the cake and made the dinner. And everyone ate it and then just left. You know, my dragon is I'm not my efforts aren't seen. How can I realize that? Slow it down and comfort myself that was hard growing up and not ever being seen. And now what do I do in this moment?

I don't want to react my old way, yelling and saying to everyone, and that's the last meal I'm going to make. And in a congruent, authentic, real way, being able to say, you know, you guys, I cook means a lot to me because it's my way of loving you. It would be really nice if you just tell me what you thought of the meal. Right.

I get what I want. I can share my hurt and pain and my need in a way that I'm heard, seen, understood, and can stay in relationship with my spouse, my family, or my coworkers. I love that. One of the things, one technique that I learned, and I'm curious what your thoughts are, that helps me is to challenge the thought by asking the opposite or turning it to its opposite.

So like this situation with my daughter. You're just like your father. Well, if I stop and I challenge that thought for a second, she's not just like her father. Not always. She's certainly not. It's not always true, right? And then she's got many great traits that are from both of us.

But then the other turnaround I came up with in this one hurt was she's just like me. But it broke the thought, right? She's stubborn. She's like me. I'm stubborn. And so, yeah, a little bit. But it broke the thought for me.

Yes, and that is powerful. Or separating out. You know, there's two things going on right now. My daughter is stubborn. She has a mind of her own. She wants to reason everything out, which is a sign of a leader. Right. Intelligence and a leader. But there's the other thing that's going on is

my dragon raises its head saying that maybe, and I don't know your story, that maybe your first husband, when he was stubborn, was hurtful. And that you have that dragon wound along with the challenge of raising maybe a strong-willed child, a leader, you know, or a child that doesn't know how to regulate their own affect, which requires a different way of parenting. You can't scold those children because they don't know how to manage their emotions. So it just fuels it. But to separate those thoughts out from that dragon. You know what? Growing up, I wasn't noticed.

I was controlled. You know, growing up, I did have to do everything. And my efforts weren't seen. And you know, that was hard. And I can comfort that. But right now, my family isn't ignoring me or not valuing me. They're just busy and rushed. And maybe the wisdom of my feeling is I need to teach them how to be more grateful verbally. We totally teach people how to treat us. I love what you're saying. Yes.

So important. Have you ever categorized the dragons? Do they tend to cluster around certain issues? The dragons cluster around how I feel about myself, my worthiness, my value, whether or not I belong, whether or not I'm seen, valued, and my worthiness of myself. They also cluster around how I view others. Will someone be there for me or not? Do those others have the love I need that they're just withholding because they're mean? Or do the other people have what I need, but they're not giving it to me because there's something wrong with me. And, um, and usually it's around value, shame,

um, uh, sense of self. Um, I like that, but we all have have dragons if you're a human being and you've been raised you know in this world you're going to have a dragon we're going to have a sense of ourself how do i feel about myself how do i feel about my value my my worth? Do I belong? Do I fit in? I'm going to have a feeling about my feeling. Right. Well, I shouldn't want to be seen and heard and valued because then that means, you know, you're self-centered or you're, you know, using the old term, children should be seen and not heard. Right. So if I want to be seen and heard, you know, know well that's maybe selfish or or you know or um there's so much here yeah i'm just writing down sort of the clusters of dragons uh

and appearance is a dragon yeah for a lot of people yes so when something brushes up against that ten asks me how do i look in this? And I'll often joke, it's like, do you want the truth or do you want me to just say it looks awesome? Yes. And you know, we want both. How do I look in this? We want to say, have our spouse reflect back to us. You are such a beautiful person. And I'm so glad I'm going out with you tonight. And I can't wait just to, you know, enjoy you. But, you know, you're wearing white pants, and we're going to be sitting outside on a bench, you know, consider wearing jeans, be constructive constructive because then I can trust you. But sometimes I'm not asking you, does these colors match? And is this top, you know, do you like the frills? I don't want to know that. What

I want to know is, do you see into me? Do you just take delight in me and cherish me and like, I'm so glad I'm going to be with you and you're the love of my life. You know, my husband, my drop dead gorgeous husband, I call him my salty old pirate. And I'm slippery mermaid. And he's my lovey. And it's like, you're my mermaid and I can't wait to be with you. It doesn't matter if he likes the thrill, you know, little frillies on my blouse or not, or if he thinks I should be wearing white pants. It's about this bond. It's about this connection. No, I love what you're saying. Yes. Because, because no, no, I was just going to use your example. So, because sometimes men

don't say the things we want them to say, right? But you get away with it because of what she just said. The reason you get away with sometimes saying things that I'm just like, roll my eyes, is because I feel seen and heard and appreciated and cherished. And so even when you say something stupid, it doesn't really, it rolls off. There's the difference. It rolls off. Because I know he doesn't mean to hurt me. I know he is being silly or I know that you genuinely care because you show that. And let's talk about that in the next podcast is how do couples establish that bond of trust?

That's what we're really getting at. Because then, I always found for myself, you can say something constructive to me critical even if i trust you right if i don't trust you i generally won't let you do that right um so stay with us we are here with dr sharon may she's a psychologist relationship expert the author of how to Argue So Your Spouse Will Listen, also Safe Haven Marriage. You can find out more about her couple intensive works and her group couples work at safehavenrelationshipscenter.com. I love that. Stay with us. If you're enjoying the Brain Warriors Way podcast, please don't forget to subscribe

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