Change Your Brain Every Day - It's Your Time to Heal: God's Steps with Pastor Derwin Gray

Episode Date: August 31, 2026

What if the Gospel is the answer to America's deepest divisions and to our deepest wounds? In this episode, we sit down with Pastor Derwin Gray; former NFL player turned church planter, best-selling author, and founder of Transformation Church — for a raw, hope-filled conversation about faith, identity, healing, and what it really means to follow Jesus in a fractured world.   Derwin shares his journey from the football field to the pulpit, why he believes churches aren't optional but essential, and how genuine faith moves beyond Sunday mornings into everyday transformation. We also touch on insights from Dr. Daniel Amen and Tana Amen on the connection between brain health, emotional healing, and spiritual wholeness and exploring how faith and science can work together toward a fully healed life.   If you've ever wondered whether faith can survive contact with real life — and actually heal what's broken — this episode is for you.   Derwin's new book: https://www.amazon.com/Its-Time-Heal-God-Given-Shattered/dp/B0GQPF3GW8

What I thought was going to heal me was success. I remember in middle school and high school, working out in college, even in the NFL going, I'm going to show you I'm successful. Now, here's the problem. When you use vengeance as fuel for success, eventually that vengeance is going to burn you out. Derwin Gray is a former NFL player and the founding pastor of Transformation Church. He is a prominent author, speaker, and theologian holding a doctor of ministry. Renowned for leading biblical racial reconciliation.

Forgiveness doesn't always mean access. Sometimes forgiveness means I love you and I'll love you from a distance depending on if it's safe, but you're letting go of the anger. Forgiveness and reconciliation are not the same thing. Forgiveness keeps me from becoming like the person who hurt me, but unforgiveness can lead to high blood pressure, heart disease, depression, and anxiety. When you forgive, you may be saving your life literally. Every day you are making your brain better,

or you are making it worse. Stay with us to learn how you can change your brain for the better every day. Small changes can create meaningful results over time. One happy saffron plus customer shared, I've been taking it for about four months and feel less stressed, more calm, and better able to shift negative thoughts into positive ones. It's still a practice.

but this supplement has been a great support. That's exactly the kind of progress I love to see because lasting change happens one healthy choice at a time. Visit brainmd.com and use code podcast 20 for 20% off. Today is going to be very important for you because we're going to talk about healing. And my friend, our friend, Pastor Dr. Derwin Gray, he's the co-founding and lead pastor of Transformation Church just outside of Charlotte, North Carolina. Pastor Gray was named the recipient of the John M. Perkins Justice Award.

The award is given to a visionary leader whose life and work exemplifies the principles of biblical justice. He's also an award-winning authors, published several books, including How to Heal Our Racial Divide, What the Bible Says, and his upcoming new book, It's Time to Heal, for God-Given steps to restore what life has shattered out. September 8th, and Tanna and I first met Darwin at Saddleback Church when He spoke as a guest pastor. It just resonated so deeply. And Tanna used me.

I did. She goes, I want to meet him. I'm like, he's not going to stop and talk to me, but he'll stop and talk to you. You need to go up there. And Darwin is a former NFL player, superstar. And I was doing an NFL study at the time. And I'm like, I want your brain. Welcome, my friend.

And hey, thank you so much. You literally said to me, I want your brain. And no one had ever said that before. And I was like, okay, yeah, that sounds really, really good. Hey, before we dive into the book, you know, I just, I think it's really important for me to share my gratitude for you guys. You guys have been not only good friends, but you've been a blessing to my son, my daughter. and myself as well. I take all the vitamins and neurogreaves.

Like my brain, Dr. Aymie, you got my brain firing on all cylinders. I'm talking about the executive up in the front, even the medulla ablandgata back there is working. So great. Well, you know, it's actually one of the messages I'm very passionate about is that, you know, many NFL players are scared of, C-T-E. And they don't know that there's a path to avoid it. That once you look, you go, okay, is my brain

vulnerable to that? But it's not my destiny. That I can do things to heal it. And you have been just a great example of that. Talk to us about your new book. And why? why you wrote it. I mean, one of the reasons, if I recall, right, Tanna wanted to meet you, is you both have similar trauma stories. You know, so what I discovered as a pastor by eight, nine years ago was I was counseling people who were stuck in the cul-de-sac of the same hurt. And so, like, they knew solid theology, they knew Jesus loved them, but what they didn't know was the body keeps score.

What they didn't know was that woundedness, that trauma was in their nervous system. And they didn't know how to integrate. How do you take these truths and make them incarnational into the deepest part of us? And so out of my own healing, people will often say, I heard you say that you were a stutterer. And I go, yes, I was a compulsive stutterer. And I'll say, well, what speech therapist did you go to? And I'll say, well, what happened to me was when I recognized my self-worth, when I realized that God thought so highly of me that he would die for me, make me his own,

declare me his very righteousness, I began to see myself beyond the trauma that happened to me. And so my trauma, I believe, was rooted or my stuttering was rooted in a lot of childhood trauma unresolved issues. And so what happened was as I began to see myself the way God sees me, as I began to love myself the way God loves me, I had no idea, Dr. Amen and Tanna, like what neuroplasticity was. I knew what Paul meant when he said be transformed by the renewing of your mind. And so I've seen firsthand how generational curses have been broken in my own life. and I want other people to experience that freedom as well. So I love that.

I mean, what I'm hearing you say, I'm a big believer in identity, because if you keep saying, I'm the wounded person, I'm the overweight person, and you're trying to go on a diet or you're trying to do something to change your life, but you still see yourself that way.

That's who you're going to be because your brain doesn't have a sense of humor. It just does what you tell it. But what I'm hearing you say is it was an identity shift because you began to see yourself as this child of God, and that's way bigger than, the NFL player before. Yes.

Like the child of God was actually more powerful than anything, any other identity you've ever had. And that's where the healing came from. Absolutely. You know, that's an identity shift. It is. It is. And so the NFL, so NFL stands for not for long. So if your identity is built on what you do, what happens when you can't do it.

To be a beloved child of God is not something you have. achieve. It's a gift that you receive. But here's something that football taught me, though. My coaches taught me neuroplasticity and I don't even know it. They taught me, okay, I want you to vision, how are you going to play the game? I want you to think about the playbook. And so when I became a follower of Christ, I became captivated with how beautiful and forgiving Jesus is, but also he says, my father is your dad. And he's, He's your dad because of me. And because I'm great, you never have to worry about being abandoned, forsaken, left behind.

You are forgiven, unblemish. You are perfect in me because of me. And I began to love dirt. And I began to heal over the abuse that I've experienced. I began to process things differently. I became a better husband. I became a more present dad. And here's a big one.

begin to draw boundaries, unhealthy family. And of course, the healthy one always gets called the bad one because they can no longer benefit off of your brokenness. And so I've learned to love that way. But what's happened is they began to heal too. And so we're all healing. I love that. It's everything you said resonates so deeply.

I mean, other than the NFL, everything resonates so deeply. So let's talk about the four steps. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, as a football player, you think about a framework to help people make actionable steps. And so God gave me the acronym, Heal, which stands for honest about what happened. In order to heal, we have to H, be honest about happen. What you do not reveal, God will not heal.

So God can only heal the true version of us. He doesn't need the Instagram filter of us. He needs the version of us that says, this is what happened, and I'm grieving, and I'm broken. The E stands for expect healing to be hard, but the stay unheeled is harder. So the healing process is a process of growth. And this is the part where I think God has uniquely gifted me in this is the thoughts. we have, the emotions we have versus, well, this is what God has done. This is what the process is. And the more you trust God in this process, your feelings will become aligned with the process.

But I think people begin to go, okay, my feelings are going to take the driver's seat versus, you know what, God, I don't feel this way, but I'm going to stick to this process. I'm going to believe these truths. I'm going to have a supporting community around me. Healing is hard, but staying unheeled is harder. The A is accept what happened to you without accepting that it will determine you. So trauma may explain our origin, but it does not own our destiny. And so something in research, I may have learned this from you guys, but it's called post-traumatic growth that that if you can get through the trauma, you'll have like a superpower. So by God's grace, I have a doctorate.

I grew up as a compulsive stutterer. First wedding I went to was my own. I scored a 16 on my ACT. I experienced things that no child should ever experience, but by God's grace with great friends, with scripture, with good psychology, with good understanding, the Holy Spirit, helped me get through this, and I'm actually stronger.

And so what I'm saying to people in this book is this, you can accept what happened to you without it determining you, that Jesus gets the steering will of our lives, not our past wounds. And then our wounds become a trampoline to take us to greater heights. Years ago,

I was talking to a young lady who had just gotten out of, rehab for cutting. This is in the early stages where that really wasn't talked about. And I was empathizing with her. And I looked at her and she was covering up her scars. And I just said, you don't have to cover up your scars. I know somebody who has scars too.

He's hurt with you. But those scars are not the end of your story. They're actually going to become a testimony to how God has healed you. So it's so powerful. Yeah. And it impacted me. And then last, the L stands for live from love, not for love. At the end of the day, we all want to be loved, but especially at our worst.

I think that we can come to grips that I don't have to bring the resume to God. I don't have to impress a God. I don't have to take a test to go, look how good I am, that when I can come to grips with, God's love for me is not predicated upon my behavior. It's based in the fact that he is good. And because he is good, his love will eventually make me good. Every human being is on a quest for four things. I need to be loved at my worst.

I need an identity to shape me. I need worth to tell me my value. And then I need a mission. Well, all four of those things are found in the person of Jesus. And so what I've tried to do, and it's time to heal, is to combine storytelling, particularly identity shifting in Christ, some neuroscience, thanks to your hubs there, to put together this resource for people to be. be healed. Like my prayer is that generations from now that descendants of people reading this book

will be blessed as a result of how their lives have changed. I love that. I love the testimonials at Amenclin clinics. I want you to go to amenclinics.com, just one that I love. Michelle says right away, I knew my son was different. The doctor said, just keep watching him, but it was scary. He was diagnosed with ADD, dyslexia, depression, and anxiety. I was overwhelmed. Luckily, I knew of Aeman Clinics, and I had hope. Now, from where he was as a kid to where he is today, it's night and day. When we did our live together on Instagram, you talked about the story with your father

and how you finally came to forgive him. Could you tell that? Yeah. So my mom was 17 when I was born. My dad was 19. I have a lot more grace for them now. But both of them struggled with mental health issues and substance abuse issues. You know, the 80s were flooded in ghettos with crack and all types of things.

And my mom had her own issues. But when you're 13, you don't know that. You just want to know. Why isn't my dad here? And I distinctly remember him showing up to a basketball game in eighth grade, sit next to my mom, always protective of my mom. And I'm like, why is he here? I had a terrible game.

And then after the game, he comes into the locker room and he begins to talk to the coach. And he puts his arm up against the wall, crosses his legs, and his shirt sleeve rolls down in heroin tracks are running all up and down his arm. So the coach and I make eye contact and pretend like we. don't see it, but I remember as a 13-year-old saying this to myself in this space of time, I hate this man, I don't need this man, and I'm going to show him I'm going to be successful. So what I thought was going to heal me was success. Like I remember in middle school and high school working out in college, even in the NFL going,

I'm going to show you I'm successful. Now here's the problem. when you use vengeance as fuel for success, eventually that vengeance is going to burn you out. I had anxiety, but we didn't use anxiety in the 90s. You know, I had all these things. So anyway, I become a follower of Christ, and in 1999, I'm writing letters to family and friends about how forgiving Jesus is and how much he loves them. And I'm just having a great time. And I heard a voice.

I'm not saying it's God's voice, but the voice said, this, find your father. And the next thing I knew, Tanna, is I was on my office floor in a puddle of tears and I was cussing F word was flying. I don't, he doesn't blankety blank deserve me finding him. Where was he when I was molested? Where was he when I needed to treat, learn how to be a man and treat women and I'm going on and I'm like, he doesn't deserve me finding him. And in that moment, of that raw honesty, I think God was like, okay, now your heart can be open. Grace can only be poured into a broken heart. So the way I see it is like, God let me cry.

And it was like he picked me up, put me on his lap, put my head against his chest, and said, son, I know the pain. It hurts and I hurt with you. And you're right. He doesn't deserve you going to find and forgive him. but never forget, you didn't deserve my son, Jesus, coming to earth to find and forgive you. Go forgive your dad. And I didn't want to do it, but I knew I had to do it.

So found out he was in prison, wrote a letter that was really short, hey, dad, I love you, I forgive you. You've got some great great kids that you need to know. A few weeks goes by, and I got a letter from him, and it basically said, son, thank you for forgiving me. I do want to know my grandkids. And then he said the words. I had never heard him say.

He said, son, I love you. And I just, the damn just broke again, but it wasn't tears of pain. It was tears of joy. Now, I had settled in my heart that regardless of what my dad said, God to Father's love was enough.

But to have your dad say, I love you. It was like, it was like all those years of rejection were just washed away. And I know beyond a shout of a doubt, if I didn't have that moment, there's no way I could experience the freedom to truly love my wife, to truly love my kids. And then to be a pastor, guys, well, you guys, you work with people. It's hard work loving people. But yeah, God has given me some incredible.

grace, yeah. You know, it's so interesting. I've always resonated with you in your story, and it's so interesting. I mean, big black man, small white woman, but there's so much, you know, and that's the point is we can have such different backgrounds,

but our pain is often the same. And so similar, our stories. And I heard that voice also about my dad, but it was his voice. So it was really irritating for me, and I also was cursing. I'm like, I'm not going to do it. But because my husband kept nagging me, I ended up finding my father and healing that.

And it was, it was one of the most powerful things. And it healed my relationship with God because I had been sort of, in my mind, I had always, my dad was a pastor, so that was really hard for me. I never knew that. Oh, yeah. I couldn't, I couldn't rectify the things he had done with being a pastor and being a man of God. And so that really affected my faith. And so I was like, if God is anything like my dad, I want nothing to do with it.

So I had walked away. So when I healed my relationship with my dad, I realized my dad's not God. He's just a man. That's right. And so I was able to really heal my relationship with him, with God and my dad. So when he passed, I was very free. And again, I was able to love more exactly like you're saying. And I realized something.

Forgiveness doesn't always mean access. In the case of my dad, he lived with me in my arms with me praying for him when he died. But that's not always true. Sometimes forgiveness means I love you and I'll love you from a distance depending on if it's safe. Yes. But if you're letting go of the anger and the hatred and being able to love and still acknowledge that not everyone deserves access because it's not all safe. That's right. That's right.

Yeah. I think that's very important. Forgiveness and reconciliation are not the same things. Right. It's one of the things that I've discovered of the last few years and I write about in its time to heal is forgiveness. Isn't always for the person that you forgive. It's for you. It's for me.

Forgiveness keeps me from becoming like the person who hurt me, but also physically, unforgiveness can lead to high blood pressure to heart disease. Mentally, it can lead to depression and anxiety. And so when Jesus, he's so gracious and he's saying, I know forgiveness is hard. I got the scars to prove it. I know it's hard. But I'm going to give you my spirit so that you can do it for your own good. And so throughout the book, I talk about like when you forgive, you may be saving your life literally.

Yeah, I agree with you. A lot of people who are sick and you don't have to be. It's so true. Well, in the Lord's Prayer, you know, I sent you my book, The Nure Science of the Lord. Lord's prayer. Jesus talks about forgive us as we forgive others. And then after he says and deliver us from the evil one, he goes back to it. Yeah. That if you forgive the sins of others, your father will forgive you. And if you don't, he won't. And I'm like, whoa, that's so harsh. But I think what it means is, This is serious when you're holding on to hurt that it's hard for you to be in relationship with him. Yeah, you know, and it's so beautiful of Jesus to raise the ante up to say, look, is it hard?

Yes. Is it worth it? Yes. But if you don't, you are hurting yourself. And so we're losing access to the benefits of the forgiveness that we've received. And it's hard for us to be human now because there's so much vengeance. There's so much bitterness. And Jesus comes with this beautiful paradoxical reality where he's like,

if you really want to be free, love your enemy. Bless those who persecute you. So the way I like to say it in the Durwin-Gray, San Antonio, Texas, translation is this way. Don't let anybody pull you down beneath the dignity that God has lifted you up to. I refuse to let you pull me down from the heights of God's mercy. Now, that doesn't mean I don't have feelings. That doesn't mean that the ruminations don't come. But I've learned some things called ants from this guy named Dr. Amen about how to walk through some things in your mind.

I want to be free and I want others to be free and that's what Jesus is offering us. And I think in it's time to heal, this is going to set a lot of people free. Love it. So powerful. Your story

is so powerful. Just your story is phenomenal. Thank you. Thank you. It has becoming an author and this is like my 10th or 11th book is a sign of healing because I thought I was dumb for so long. You know, the old saying sticks and stones may break your bones, good words may never

hurt you. That is a lie from the pit of hell. He's a lie. It's often the words that stick to us more than the physical. And when I was eight years old, my mom's boyfriend told me I was dumb because the way I learn I have to get my hands on it. And I just remember that echoing and I felt so abandoned like, why didn't you take up for me? Like, why did you let him do that? And so I took easy classes in high school. I took easy classes in college. I didn't raise my hand and ask questions because

I'm stutterer and I'm dumb. And so God really has healed that. God has healed that and saying, no, you're not dumb. And actually, I've given you an incredible brain. Derwin, you memorize hundreds of football plays in a split second in front of millions watching on TV and in front of 80,000 watching in the stands. You do that with injuries. You're not dumb. You're actually really smart.

But here's how I want you to know that. I'm going to put my spirit inside of you. And I'm going to give you new dreams and new passions and new desires. and he's done that. And so the kid that was told he was dumb as a doctorate, and I'm talking to you guys and change your brain every day.

I love that. Wow. Well, we think you're amazing. Well, I think you guys are amazing. And so it's like, okay, healing's hard, but you have to recall it. And then the is empathize with the other person.

It's like, well, what was going? on with your dad. And anyone who gets involved with drugs, it damages their brain. Yes. And damages their empathy and their ability

to love. And, you know, in the 80s or now for sure, it's rampant. Yes. Right? I mean, people think marijuana is innocuous and alcohol is a health food and now psilocyllia. is the second coming of trauma treatment, which I'm very worried about.

But the E is empathize with the other person, which you were able to do. The A is altruistically just because it's goodness. Give them the gift of forgiveness. C is commit to it. H is hold on to it because like you said, it comes back. Well, and Dr. Aman, guess look. I wrote about that in its time to heal. I use Worthington's acronym Reach.

Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. It's so powerful and it's so important. But when I wrote about forgiveness in the neuroscience of the Lord's Prayer, I'm like, you still have to get your feelings out. That holding in the rage will come out in back pain. talking about John Sarno's work. And that's why I like that your first step is honesty.

Jesus, you know, made a whip of cords. Yes, he did. And went into the temple when he was unhappy about what was going on. And I don't think we'd talk about that, perhaps as much as we should. He was the king of boundaries. So whenever people are like, oh, but if I have boundaries, it's not Christian. And I'm like, what? And let me put on my theologian hat.

When you look at the scriptures, Jesus is quoting, he's quoting from the book of Isaiah where the temple was called a house of prayer for all ethnos, all people groups. And what was happening is the Sadducees who were in league with the Romans had access. And they were putting up temple boobs. and when Jews and Gentiles would come in, they would say, well, your sacrifices are not worthy, so you have to buy some new one. So you had corruption, you had systemic justice. You were barring people from meeting the living God.

And Jesus is like, no, I ain't having none of this today. No, no, no. We're about to deal with this today. And so this was messing some things up for these people. and it shows you how much God actually loves us. You're picking on my daddy's kids and I'm going to put a stop to it. And ultimately, the cross and the resurrection is the invitation that not only can your sins be forgiven, but your trauma that you got from your mama can be healed.

It's time to heal. It's time to heal out. September 8th, we will support it because we love you and love your work. work. How can people learn more about you? How can they learn more about the church and the other work that you are doing? Yeah. So what I would say the main thing is they can look me up on socials. It's at Derwin L. Gray. My Instagram, my Facebook, it's at Durwin L. Gray. Or you can go to Durwin L.gray.com. That'll take you to Transformation Church. years of sermons are there at Derwin L. Gray, you can have access to all the books I've written, but primarily it's time to heal drops September 8th.

So and pre-order it because that will allow it to rank. And if it ranks, then more people will know about it. And Lord knows healing in this society is absolutely essential. Well, thank you, my friend. We love you and we look forward to seeing you soon. As always. We love you guys too. Thank you so much.

You bet. One of my greatest joys is watching faith communities come alive. One community told us this has been a blessing for our church. That's exactly why we built the Amen Hole for. So congregations can heal together in brain, body, relationships, and spirit. and walk closer with God with renewed clarity, energy, and purpose. Bring it to your community at amenhole4.com. All right, you're watching, listening to change your brain every day.

Healing changes your brain in a good way. Leave us a comment, a question, reviews, subscribe. We are grateful to you. Do something today. to have a better brain.