Change Your Brain Every Day - Odette Annable: On Perfectionism & the Pressure to Hold It All Together

Episode Date: October 6, 2025

Actress and mom Odette Annable sits down with Dr. Daniel Amen for a raw look inside her brain scan—and what it reveals about her struggles with ADHD, perfectionism, criticism, and the pressure to be “the strong one.” Odette shares what it’s like to feel hyper-productive yet scattered, zigzagging through her day only to end up frustrated—like there’s a cap on her potential she can’t break through. From growing up in pageants to navigating marriage and parenting a child with ADHD, Odette shares how her brain wiring fuels reactivity, stress, and self-doubt—and what she’s learning to do differently to create a healthier brain and a stronger family.

We are not speaking the same language. And if we can be patient with each other and learn how to speak each other's language, I don't think you could touch us. I have a lot of masculine energy or like directness. And so they have this guard up when I'm not spoken to in this like a baby chick. You know, our therapist says, you've got to be the baby chick if you want him to treat you like the baby chick. But I'm like, but I am the baby chick. Shouldn't he know that he should just...

He shouldn't know anything. Be the baby chick. You have to teach him, and you have to teach her what works and what doesn't. Odette Annable is an American actress. She is known for various roles in film and television, including Dr. Jessica Adams in the medical drama series, House. I never thought I struggled in school, but now looking back, I really struggled. I would read books, and my brain would just start going, and then I'd finish the book,

and then I'd say, well, hell, I don't even know what I read. But I've always been really scattered. I bounce. I feel like I'm a squirrel. And at the end of it, I'm so frustrated because I feel like I could be doing so much more. And I feel like I have so much potential, but there's a cap to what I'm able to do. And it's so frustrating. Every day you are making your brain better or you are making it worse.

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podcast 20 for 20% off. Well, welcome to an incredible episode, Change Your Brain, Every Day. We're going to do family scans today. And I'm with two really incredible actors and parents, Dave and Odette, Annable, and you're going to like this episode. Stay with us. So tell me your goal. I'm so interested in total brain health. And it started when I noticed some differences in my daughter's brain that I was so desperate to fix, right? And, you know, for me, I've just been going down a path of how to best help her succeed. And of course, I've completely forgotten about myself in the process. And, you know, I'm just so fascinated to learn about. our brains as a couple, as individuals, learn more about Charlie's brain and kind of incorporate

all of the things that we learn here and take it back home and really just, you know, we're, we care so much and we love so hard, but I think we can just do so much better about understanding how we work and how, what's ticking up here. So I'm, I'm just so thrilled that I'm here. And to be like less reactive. I'm sorry? And to be less reactive. And to be less reactive. He's trying to make a joke, but it's about me right now. Thank you. When do you find yourself reacting? Whenever he makes comments like that. Does he poke you? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Do you have my book Healing ADD? No, I need to. There's a chapter in it called the games ADD people play.

And the first game they play is let's have a problem. Oh, wow. I know. know more about this than I want to know. Yeah. I only love women who have ADD. I do not know what it is with me. But my first wife had ADD and I just, and I began to notice those traits in my patients. I'm like, why are you picking on him? And then I think, why is she picking on me? Yeah. And I have a, I have six children, but Caitlin was hyperactive from before birth. And when she was little, she used to run up to her brother, kick him as hard as she could, and then run away laughing. And if he didn't chase her, she'd go kick him again. Right, right, right. It was just this conflict. Yes. And it's just poke, poke, poke.

Yeah, it's almost like that dopamine hit that you get. I get, I mostly get reactive when I'm critiqued, I would say. Do you think that's right? for me but you know also like with the children you know I run a little hot okay let's not it's not all Dave's fault you know yeah tell me when you first thought you might have a BD well I didn't think I that was never even a thought in my brain up until probably five or six years ago I always I never thought I struggled in school, but now looking back, I really struggled. I was a hardworking A, B student, but I had to work really hard. I mean, I would read books, and my brain would just start going, and then I'd finish the book, and then I'd say, well, hell, I don't even know what I read. And so I started seeing

these patterns as I grew up that I couldn't really retain. It was hard for me to retain information. And my memory, I mean, even as I've gotten older, I feel like, has started to go and I used to have great memories. So up until probably five, I would say five or six years ago. But I've always been really scattered. I've never been able. I bounce. I feel like I'm a squirrel, you know, like there's, it's just, I can't, I'll go into a room. I'll get everything done.

I'm, I can be very productive, but I bounce around. I mean, if you could see the zigzags that I do all day. day long. And at the end of it, I'm so frustrated because I feel like I could be doing so much more and I feel like I have so much potential, but there's a cap to what I'm able to do, and it's so frustrating. Okay. I'm like a squirrel. I wrote that down. Right and thug. Tired. Yes. Especially the last two years. Worse with your cycle. Yeah, rage. the week before. Like, you can't say anything to me.

Obviously, not him. Forget about it. But just, like, road rage. I mean, like, if anybody cuts me off, I'm just like, why am I so angry? It's horrible. Have you had your hormones tested? Yes, I'm in the process of doing that. You know, nothing is too, too elevated.

Some things we're kind of trying to manage, but I tried testosterone. my hair was falling out. Was your testosterone low? A little on the lower side. It wasn't alarming, but it was on the lower side, yeah. I make something called Bring T-Max. Yeah, give it to me. That can help naturally.

Yeah, I'll take it. I'll take all of the things, really. Those are for you. What's your goal with Dave? In our marriage? Yeah. I think if we could nail one thing, I think we would be smooth cruising and it's communication. We are not speaking the same language.

And if we can be patient with each other and learn how to speak each other's language, I don't think you could touch us. I mean, we are... So what's the goal? Articulate the goal for me. I'll give you mine. Okay. Connection. I always have this goal.

Okay. 100% of the time. I don't always feel like it, but I always have it. And so then I filter everything I say and everything I do through with Tanna, one of kind, caring, loving, supportive, passionate relationship. I want that 100% of the time. But rude thoughts show up. Hermie is like, you're a bitch. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I've got worse. Yep. And unless I'm drunk and I don't drink. That thought never gets out, right? Because thoughts just show up. Yeah. That aren't helpful. Yeah.

And I'm like, oh, you could criticize her. I'm like, she doesn't do well with criticism. No, I don't. I don't do it. I am not going to get the passionate part of what I want if I'm critical. That's right. Because she grew up in trauma. She's sensitive, right?

That's the thing. I'm actually quite sensitive, but I present myself as this, like, I have a lot of masculine energy or, like, directness. And so, you know, it's like you almost, I have this guard up when I'm not spoken to in this, like a baby chick, you know, our therapist says, You know, like, you've got to drop the dragon. You've got to be the baby chick if you want him to treat you like the baby chick. But I'm like, but I am the baby chick.

Shouldn't he know that he should just... He shouldn't know anything. Be the baby chick. You have to teach him. Yeah. Right? And you have to teach her what works and what doesn't. Because what are the top two things you do that piss him off?

I'll walk away. So maybe like a form of abandonment. Stonewalling. Yeah, sure. Do you know Gottman's work? It's great. If you don't know John Gottman. I've heard his podcast before and he's so great.

He's so great. Yes, I do that. And yeah, I'll shut down. If he, it's just. Okay, so that's one. Tell me the second one. Walk away. And the second one.

And I'll shut down in the middle of the conversation. Right? Is that what it is? Yes, you're the question. Well, I'm asking. No, I'm asking you. I don't know. Because I want it from you. What are the two things you do that bring him close to you? When I'm vulnerable.

And when I'm able to communicate my feelings without being reactive. Okay. So I just want you back to the goal. What's the goal with him? Connection. Gentle, kindness, passion, connection, healthy communication. Okay. And how much control do you have over him?

None. None. And how much control do you have over you? Everything. I mean, I'd like to have more control over things, but I... I have this acronym I like when I teach relationships. It's related. and the RRA's responsibility, and it's not about blame.

And it actually came from a story that Tanna told me. She grew up on crazy. Her uncle was murdered in a drug deal gone wrong. It's one of her first memories. And the guy responsible for that was her other uncle who, and he was tried to kill himself, went to jail. He was a mess. Years later, he's teaching for Jack Camp.

And Tanna has thyroid cancer, and she goes to Hawaii where he's teaching. And Bobby asks, how much responsibility do you want for your situation? She goes, it's cancer. It's not my fault. He goes, I didn't ask you about blame. Responsibility is just your ability to respond to the situation. You want 50%? You want 100%.

She goes, oh, I want 100%. And so when you know what you want, you just got to ask yourself, it's my behavior getting me what I want. Because the only one I'm responsible for. It is myself for sure. Yeah. And both of you, because you've been married, how long? It'll be 15 years, October 10th. So there's all sorts of memories and trauma.

And when your emotional brain is busy. Yeah, I was 22 when we met. Both of you's emotional brands are busy, you can filter things through negativity in the past. And I want you to focus on what you like more than what you go. What's the goal? Is the goal, kindness, compassion, communication, connection, okay, if I say that, and am I getting what I want? Because both of you, what you want, I would bet, is goodness. Yes, for sure.

You want a family that works. You want careers that soar. You want health. And so it's not selfish. A lot of people go, oh, it's selfish. It's like, well, what do you want? And is your behavior getting you what you want? Definitely not.

Probably need to work a little. that that is in my mind it's the most freeing thing yeah the most empowering thing is i know i could go home right now and screw it up i get her to yell at me in under 20 seconds maybe under 10 right if i'm condescending oh yeah if i belittle her yeah if i make her feel small yeah criticized she'll bite me yep i can bite got a good bite man if you're in a vulnerable time of your cycle, right? The ants are in charge. But then that's, it's like, oh no, I'm responsible for what I say. Yeah, I have control. I have control. I need to work on the control part. That's for sure. Cuban blood. That's perfect timing. She drinks it for breakfast, a little bit wound tight, back pain.

Did you know that physical and emotional pain run on the same circuits in the brain? And they fuel each other to keep you in pain. In my new book, Change Your Brain, Change Your Pain, I'll show you how to break free from what I call the doom loop and step into a healing loop that can transform your life. Less pain, more joy. It's absolutely possible. pre-order my new book now and receive special bonus gifts at Change Your Brain, Change Your Pain, Book.com. When you feel back pain, if you feel it for more than a few weeks, it's burning circuits in your brain. Oh my gosh.

And you have to get your brain healthy in order to get rid of the pain. I had dinner with me. My cardiologist six months ago, he's scheduled for surgery because he had back pain for four years. Really? Because he had an abnormal MRI. Your MRI is not that abnormal. Right, but showed, yeah. Do you know how many people your age have abnormal back MRIs?

Right in the middle. Right in the middle. 40%. Yeah. My age, 70%. Damn. People have abnormal MRIs who have no pain. 40%. Really? Yeah. That was the big aha for me. It's like it's not the MRI. Right. It's the

chronic stress you're under a little tiny bit of Adderall and I would probably argue it's a tiny bit because it's not quite right. And you just start on that right. The Xanax, I'd lose the Xanax. It increases your risk. Yeah, that was the kind of a habit that just became, I don't even know if I necessarily need it. It was just something like, oh, you know, when you're like, oh, I don't know if I'll be able to sleep if I don't take it or if I'm working. I'm like, I need to sleep. Okay, let me just take a little bit. And I don't think. I make something called put me to sleep. That's too. The hypnosis, sleep audio is great. Great. I get notes from people all over the world. Love going to bed with you.

Yeah, perfect. You have great blood flow. brand um i don't have any labs on you long breast cancer i did send labs over though you did yes i have to haven't seen okay um you were at motor vehicle accident yes when i was in high school but i don't see it okay um drinking much now not as much as you know i've never been a solo drinker you know not really at home but socially for, you know, the whole time basically that we were in Hollywood. It was just pretty heavy drinking. I mean, events and parties and whatever.

And for the last five years, I would say it's gone down a lot, but certainly in the last four months. I just can't do it. It's just not worth it. The hangovers for me are... Well, and you hurt yourself twice. Well, yeah, there's a... Yeah, physically hurt yourself.

Say that again. I got in a golf cart accident. I was drinking. I wasn't driving, but my best friend was. and then on my 40th birthday I sprained my ankle pretty badly and it's all alcohol related it's just stupid it doesn't make me feel good it feels like the worst poison ever the next morning I'm like I'm miserable and it's a two to three day deal it's not even you know oh my gosh I'm hung over for a few hours and then I get on with my day I'm depressed I'm anxious it's it's not it for me

one or two drinks but the problem is I'm so fun they're describing my life in my clinical life it's just it's not kill it yeah um okay I have a question for both of you one of the things that really irritates me when I watch television why is there always alcohol yeah oh yeah always it's like what what's the deal is it because Anheuser Bush is sponsoring the show well I bet you It's so toxic. Props, it's almost immediate. Like, they have to ask you. They come up to you and they say,

what do you want to drink in the scene? Do you want like some whiskey? Do you want a glass of wine? Do you want a beer? It's almost immediate. But why? Because it pervades. Yeah.

Through society. And so now our children just think that's normal. Yeah. For sure. No, it's got to stop. The problem is I really do enjoy drinking. and I'm a very fun drinker, but it's not worth it. Well, you're fun without drinking.

Does it love you back? Obviously not. No, it kills me. The first one loves you. The second one loves me too. I want you to engage in behaviors you love that love you. Yeah, that's right. That's right.

Because I want you to think about it. You know, if I can get into that sort of, what's the right, We're cognitive dissonance, part of your brain. So when you see alcohol or you see marijuana, you actually see poison. You're like, no, I like myself more than that. Yeah. No, I don't. I mean, you know, there are a lot of things I like that are deadly for me.

Yeah, yeah. Definitely. No, I've started to switch my outlook on alcohol. And when I see it now, I'm like, eh, I don't know about it. you well I think seeing the future is good yeah stress absolutely juggling a lot sandwich generation your parents just moved to your community and they're going to you're going to yeah yeah so you have that and then you have yeah my uncle just passed away my mom's just had a you know it's just been yeah it's been a lot grinding

do you wear a mouthgood uh no I have been told I do grind but I don't when I've been recommended one but have you how often do you see your dentist once a every six months or a year he didn't say anything this last thing no and you don't have any jaw pain no okay oh a lot of red oh a lot of red shit talking out of you oh no I really went in so confident and I started doing the test I was like I'm an idiot so that's negative self-talk I know it's a little ant that was a labeling hand I'm a name yeah all labeling I'm really good recognizing faces but you recognize negative faces faster oh yeah so faster

faster oh god okay what was it like growing up for you where did you grow near Riverside here in California I mean, I have such a loving family. I mean, but I was, I did beauty pageants when I was young. I was thrown into the industry when I was four years old. I, you know, perfectionism had to be perfect, you know, that whole thing. I'm so sorry. Yeah.

Is you saying that to me? No. It's all about Dave. I'm totally, I'm married to it. I'm married to it. No, no, it's great. She is beautiful and small. I'm not feeling bad for you at all.

No, she cares. She wants to do the right thing. No, it's the beauty pageant thing when you're young because it sets you up to have to be perfect to be any good at all. It sets you up. It's like the worst things. Why I hate the Olympics.

I hate the Olympics because you have to win and you have to be the best and beauty pageants. have to be the best and that's the prescription for misery because when you have to be better than other people it separates you from them now when you have to be your best well then you can help other people be their best too and then that's inclusive and so like with Julius Randall it's like every day you win or you learn right you're going to be your best because when you have to be the best well then you're competing against

Michael Jordan and yeah that's hard yeah that's that's misery one right but when they played the Lakers in the first round of the playoffs he guarded LeBron and he did great so your best right but you either win or you learn you could see why that would then lead oh yeah to issues for you and that's probably what explains that if you get your feelings hurt it tends to stick yeah probably more yeah um stress is a big issue not terribly anxious or depressed your long-term memory is good focus not awesome planning is okay processing speed a little bit slower I'm worried about this one flexibility talk to me about that you want

things to go a certain way and if they don't you get upset I'm going to teach you a rule yeah it's called the rule of 12 shit happens I was taking Tanna to Paris for her 50th birthday seven years ago and I just noticed we go on vacation and something bad would happen and we're like ruined two days. And I'm like, shit happens. 12 things are going to go wrong.

Let's promise ourselves we're not going to get upset until the 13 thing. Oh, that's great. And then we can scream, we can yell, we can act badly. Three things went wrong. Nobody was upset the whole time.

I came home and I posted the rule of 12 It's like 10 million views or something. It's based on this concept of psychological health goes with flexibility. Cognitive flexibility. When you were pushed to be perfect and it had to do with your books at such a young age so bad for your brain. But you can change it. There's not one thing about your brain that we can't make it better.

Great. I'm in. Let's do it. It's time. Short-term memory not good, but I think these two things go together. Your conscious negativity bias is 33. It means it could be better. Okay. Flexible negative. Flexibility and being more positive. Yeah. And I see people that are here all the time. So, it's not awful, but it's not awesome.

Yeah. So when you wake up, I want you to go, today's going to be a great day. And then I want you focused on the little miracles that happen every day. I know, I love that. Like, what's the smallest thing I love? And focus on it. Like, for me, it's like I made brain healthy odd chocolate every night for my family.

And I just love the first-faced. Oh, that's great. And Tanna literally had a hummingbird on her hand yesterday. But just seeing them or seeing, because it's butterfly season where I live. And then when you go to bed at night, I want you to do a very specific exercise. I want you to go what went well today. And I want you to start at the beginning of your day, go hour by hour, only looking for what you love. Now, the bad stuff will show up.

And I'm like, not the point. Sweep it away and go back. to what went well and once you put yourself to sleep with that. That's great. Because I want to move this over here. And if we get it in the green and do you know my friend Byron Katie? She has a couple of great books, Loving What Is. It's a great book.

But she always says, argue with reality. Welcome to hell. Wow. And when you have a challenging child, challenging child argue with reality a lot but that's not good for anybody right so it's like okay this is what we have what are we going to do about that's right that's right yeah that's great all right we went over these this is your skin actually have a great looking smooth wow wow that's pretty wow it's pretty

it is pretty wow i'd want to keep it now this little thing here may have been the car Okay. Whacked you in the back right side. If I was you, I would want to keep this brain healthy. Yeah, I want to take a picture and frame it. Yeah. I'm going to give you a copy. Okay.

Your cerebellum is a little sleepy. I actually think this is where the EDD is like, because I think if I scanned you, you on the Adderall, that would pop up. But your anxiety centers probably pop up too with it, which is why you only take 2.5. Because if you take more, do you notice you get... A little racy, yeah. But when I do take it, it is like my world opens up.

Everything looks brighter. I can focus, I can get shit done. And have you tried other things? No, nope. So I think both of you... Think of it like, well, let's just see what's best for me. Yeah. And I like concerta a lot.

So, Adderall and Bivance are amphetamine-based, concertas, methylphenidate-based. It just, you don't know which one's better for either. So I would talk to who's ever prescribing it for you to, like, hey, Dr. Aymond said, concerta might be a better mix for me. So, yes, yes. But do we see ADD or do we see the H in mine? Or do we just see ADD? The naming of this thing is so stupid.

In 1980, it used to be ADD with or without hyperactivity. But the people who make the book that names things need to change things up so people buy the new version of the book. And in 1987 went to ADHD. And they threw out half the people who were hyperactive. Oh, wow. And in 1994, they changed it again to AB slash HD because they realized they threw out how people

who are hyperactive. And it's just stump. Right. I think if I had to do it from sports, probably ADD without the hyperactivity. Okay. PMS, Lodest Restaurant. I'm gonna add chronic stress.

Yeah, definitely. And so I think, what do you do to manage the chronic stress? I could be doing so many other things that I'm not doing, like exercising, I had to take that four month pause, but I do think I'm so, my brain is so much better. Just everything feels better when I exercise. Meditation, I've fallen off of completely. I think I could use a little bit of that. And then, you know, I feel like I could probably do.

I feel like a hyperbaric sounds good. I could probably lay in there for a little bit. An infrared sauna. Things that I'm just not consistent with anything. That's my problem. Every year for New Year's, I write one word down that I wanted to carry with me, and it was consistency. And I just fucking can't do it.

That's crazy. How many days out of 10 do you take the stimulant? Five. You don't need your brain on the other days? I think I don't want to be, there's this stigma like, oh, I don't want to be dependent on something. But it's almost like, well, don't you wear eyeglasses when you need to see? I was just going to say that. So it's like, why am I?

Right. Yeah. I need to turn the batteries on and it helps. So I make something called Focus and Energy. I want you to try that. I want you to try peak energy as opposed to Adderall and just see which one you like better. And then I want you to try consortium. Brain TMAX and PMS relief.

Another one I like for you is everyday stress relief because that's just a big part of what's going on and every day you win or you learn right if you just have that mindset that's right the only thing i can control is my behavior does my behavior fit the goals i have for my life are you excited to optimize your brain and help the brains of those you love do you want to prevent or treat memory problems, anxiety or depression. Do you want to be happier? That's why I created Amen University to take what I've learned over the last 45 years and help you have a better brain, a better mind, and a better body. You can take courses like our 30-day happiness challenge, which was shown in research to increase happiness by 32% in just 30 days,

or memory rescue, or overcoming anxiety, depression, trauma, and grief, or healing ADD at home in 30 days and much more. We also have professional courses and courses for kids, including Brain Thrive by 25, which was found in independent research to decrease depression and improve self-esteem. And as a special offer, just for our listeners, you can save 20% on your next course. Visit amenuniversity.com and use the code, podcast 20. Well, that was amazing. We learned so much.

I learned so much and we had such a good time. I just want to thank you so much for being so brave and so open and I'm so excited to see what your brains are going to look like going forward. You've been watching Change Your Brain every day. Subscribe, leave us a comment, question, a review, share it with your friends. Thank you.