Change Your Brain Every Day - Why Our Brains Aren't Programmed To Face Rejection With Chloe Amen

Episode Date: October 9, 2018

Throughout our lives, there will inevitably be times we face rejection. Whether it’s the outcome of a job interview or asking out a crush, rejection can radically affect our self-esteem. In this episode of The Brain Warrior’s Way Podcast, Tana Amen is joined by her daughter Chloe, an aspiring actress, for a conversation on why it’s so important to reframe the way we think about rejection.

Welcome to the Brain Warriors Way podcast. I'm Dr. Daniel Amen. And I'm Tana Amen. Here we teach you how to win the fight for your brain to defeat anxiety, depression, memory loss, ADHD, and addictions. The Brain Warriors Way podcast is brought to you by Amen Clinics, where we've transformed lives for three decades using brain spec imaging to better target treatment and natural ways to heal the brain. For more information, visit amenclinics.com.

The Brain Warriors Way podcast is also brought to you by BrainMD, where we produce the highest quality nutraceutical products to support the health of your brain and body. For more information, visit brainmdhealth.com. Welcome to the Brain Warriors Way podcast. And stay tuned for a special code for a discount to Amen Clinics for a full evaluation, as well as any of our supplements at brainmdhealth.com. Hi, everyone. So I am back with my favorite person. We went and got facials last night, all of us as a family. And it was really fun because the girl that was doing my facial said, so you're here with

your family? That must be fun. I'm like, yeah, it's really cool because like my family is my best friend. Like, that's all we do is hang out together. So here we are again. And we were talking about rejection because you're going into a field where there's a lot of rejection. Yeah. Only I've seen your brain. We were talking about rejection because you're going into a field where there's a lot of rejection.

Yeah. Only I've seen your brain. And so she has got a really anxious brain and likes to do things really well. So let's talk about rejection and being part of a world where you get a lot of it. So I'm going into the entertainment industry and that's one of the hardest as far as rejection goes because half of it is rejection. Or more. And it's not just rejection of like a job, like we're not going to give this job to you. It's rejection of sort of disapproval. And I think that's one thing that people get like confused, as I did for a really long time, that rejection doesn't – or that disapproval doesn't necessarily mean, like, isn't the same thing as rejection all the time.

Right. Disapproval is somebody's opinion. And rejection a lot of the time is somebody's opinion too. So people get them confused, I think. Because I certainly did. It's one thing to say, well, you didn't get this job because we had another person that was, like, better for the job. And it's another to go, you're not going to make it in general because I don't like what you do. Right. That's disapproval.

So it's really interesting to me as her mom, because I knew she's going into this world where I know that the competition is fierce. There's a ton of rejection and there's a ton of ambiguity. So there's a ton of like question marks. You don't even know why they're rejecting you sometimes. And sometimes they're just flat out brutal about it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So there's so much.

Especially in this industry, they're like really honest. Like the body image issues for young girls, it's insane. So if you're not grounded, I had so many people ask me why I didn't start you when you were really little. Because it's harder to start at her age. And so why we didn't start her when you were really little, because it's harder to start at her age. And so why we didn't start her when she was really young. And quite frankly, I didn't want to, because we deal with a lot of that in our clinics with child stars. And the truth is, I wanted her to be very grounded as her own person, know who she is, have a really

strong sense of her, like her moral compass be really set to be able to withstand some of that. And I knew she was really anxious anyways. She's anxious in the sense of always wanting to do a really good job. Well, in that world, even if you do a good job. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's kind of people get confused. It's subjective. The disapproval and rejection.

Right. Because disapproval, you could still have done a really good job in somebody else's eyes. And then another person, it's like, well, I wouldn't have done it that way. So you didn't do a good job. Right. So those two get really confused. Right. So I've kind of had to learn or am learning how to sort of step back and go, did I do my best? Did I do what I would have done? Do I think that I did it right? Or do I think that I did the best that I could have done? And is that, is that an opinion or is that a statement? Is that a true statement, what that person's saying, or is that just their opinion? So it's kind of differentiating the two. Exactly. So, and, and with the, the, with the

disapproval regarding like how people look and the big focus on how people look even, it's like, seriously, that even, that's an opinion because you had one breath, like in one day, you can have someone tell you, you know, you're not pretty enough. You're not skinny enough. And then no joke, you will right away have someone say, you know what? Too stereotypical. You're too skinny. You're too pretty. We need someone who's more real life. Like if you're not grounded and you don't know who you are going in, so that's tip number one. Make sure you know who you are. Make sure you're solid in who you are and comfortable in your skin. Because you always got to know.

There's always going to be someone skinnier or that looks a different way. Prettier is not even the right word. And there's always going to be people who are like not as skinny and don't look the same way. But there's always like, there's room for everybody. You just have to know who you are and what you're looking for. You have to know what your look is. You have to know who you are, what you feel like, whatever your field is, you've got to know, you've got to be strong in that and who you are. Right. Because then if, you know, what goes on around you as far as disapproval goes,

it's like, well, that's not what I'm set out to be. That's not what I know that that's not what I want. I know that's not. So when somebody tells you, well, you're not this, it's like, well, I'm, that's not my focus. That's not my goal. That's not, you know what I'm saying? So having your eyes set on what you want, it's like everything else that goes on around you and the disapproval that goes on around you, it doesn't phase you as much because it's like you know, I know what I want and I know I'm solid and kind of that. I really like that. And then, I mean, there's also this sort of false, that sort of goes with what you were

saying though. I was thinking there's sort of, as you were talking, I was thinking there's also this false sense of approval or disapproval, but that's because that's really more based on people's opinions also. Right. So, and then the one thing that popped in my head while you were talking is you don't always know what people are thinking. No. So you go on auditions, right?

And they're sitting there like. Right. They're like looking at you like, and it's so intimidating. You walk in and the look on their face, you walk in and the first thought in your head is, I'm already doing terrible. And you haven't, no word hasn't even come out of your mouth yet and you're already going, uh oh, this is not going well.

And in fact, you got no clue. In fact, I have a funny story about this in my world. So I speak on public stages, right? So I have a funny story about this that I told you about it because you came out of an audition one time and you're like, I don't know, I thought I did a good job but I wasn't sure, you know, cause. So I was on stage and no joke joke there was a woman in the front row

and she had her arms crossed and I I swear she was glaring at me and I was doing everything that I could that like I was focused on getting a smile out of this woman I was trying to be funny I was trying to like I was staring right at her I was focused on getting her to smile never got a smile out of her and she just was glaring at me and And so I, it was throwing me off. It was throwing my energy off. And so this was early in my speaking career and afterwards I was like so sort of off like my game because I was like what did I do that offended this woman? And so I was like so kind of freaked out by it. No joke she called the office the next day to book me.

And so I talked to her. I called her. I'm like, I'm so confused. Like I'm so confused. And I actually asked her because I was so confused. I'm like, I thought maybe you were not happy when I was talking. She goes, what are you talking about? I was so focused on you.

And I'm like, oh my gosh. So he told me right there, don't try to read people's minds right you can't read people's minds right right and one thing that I've sort of noticed too is that when I go in and I think oh I'm already doing really bad and they haven't even said anything or I don't know that they haven't said that to me but I'm just assuming I've kind of figured out that assumptions are like yourself talking back at you going, going, going, no, you think you're doing a bad job. It's like a mirror. Yeah. So it's, it's not them that's thinking they're doing a bad, it's you that thinks you're doing a bad job. And so you automatically, it, it's that thought is,

um, allowed to get into your head. It's kind of is able to stay because it's your thoughts that are doing it. Cause if you, if you went in going, I'm doing great, and you walked in, you stood there, and you were, like, confident, what they were thinking or even their look on their face wouldn't be able to get to you because your head is too filled with, like, I know I'm doing good and I'm confident. So it's, like, it's that kind of assumption. Well, you know, the same thing goes on in high school, right?

So oftentimes kids will give other kids a dirty look because of their own insecurities or what's going on in their head. They'll give someone else a dirty look. It's not because they don't think they look good or they don't. It's because they think, oh, I don't like that girl. She's too pretty or whatever. You don't know what's in someone's head, right? So it's not because they think you're not cool. Sometimes it's because they think you're too cool. Right. So it's not because they think you're not cool. Sometimes it's because they think you're too cool. Right. So you have to be very careful about thinking you know what people are thinking. Right. So I like that. So if you're set and confident and grounded in what you know, just don't read their mind. That's my, that would be

my thought there. I don't know. So one thing when we take you to all of these, like you've actually done a couple of things that I really like. So we take you to all of these um like you've actually done a couple things that i really like so we take you to all of these auditions and there's a lot and the first thing they told us going in make sure she knows that just be she's not going to get all of them we don't want her like she can't possibly she's got to go to a ton of them it's a numbers game. Right. Right. So you knew that going in. And so one thing I really liked that you actually said to me was, it's okay. I don't think of it like rejection. I want to go to all of them because for me, it's also about practice and becoming comfortable with it. Yeah, it's experience.

Right. It's experience. And you never thought of it as rejection. Yeah. So you reframed it. So for me, whether or not, I've kind of put myself in the mindset of whether I, whether or not I get a callback or like book the job or whatever, I've kind of put myself in the mindset that each one of them going in every time I walk in the office, I've already accomplished something. So instead of, instead of when I walk out getting

the callback, it's when I walk in, oh, I'm already in the doors. Like I've already got one down. Like I've already accomplished this. So not that I don't give my best when I actually do the audition because that's just another accomplishment to book it. But to just walk in the door for me is an accomplishment. That's awesome. That's how I've kind of seen it. So we actually teach that in a different way to some of – as a coaching tip, which I don't think I've told you,

so that's actually really cool. So basically if you reframe it and you don't try to make the goal so big that it's hard to accomplish, if you make your success, your win, something small, like you said, rather than my win is going to be getting the job, you made your win once I get in the door for the audition, a win. I can't go, I'm going to be happy when I have an Academy Award. It's like, no, it's, you have to keep those small little steps because otherwise it's like you give up halfway through. Cause you're like, I don't win at anything. You're like, I can't accomplish anything. And it's not, that's not true. It's how you, it's what you, it's how you see, you know what I'm saying? Like what you accomplish. And so that way you're enjoying the journey. Right. So the same thing goes in martial arts,

by the way. Um, so it's really hard for people who are perfectionists cause you get knocked over a lot and you look silly. Um, so you have to get over that and you have to learn that falling is just part of the process. You got to to learn that it's just part of it. So you went with me to martial arts yesterday. It was really fun. Yeah. But you learn that you've got to be willing to not look perfect all the time. Right.

In order to get really good at it, you have to be willing to not look great. Right. And so it's just part of it, and you know that. And so you just get back up and you do it again, and so it's really good. Yeah, and on that note, one of the other things I was going to say is when you're rejected or somebody else disapproves, it's about getting back up, like you said, and doing it again and again and moving on. Because some people will sit there and they go, I used to do it too because I'm a perfectionist. So I'd sit there and I'd go

over it, over it, over it in my head, the same thing. And I'd start talking about it. I'm like, but what if I did this? And what if I could have done this? But that doesn't help because I can't go back and I can't do it again. So if I just move on, it's like, put that in the back of your head. How I kind of think of it is once I leave somewhere, I've, first of all, as soon as I get in the door, I've already accomplished something. But once I leave somewhere, it kind of goes away. Like I just kind of like throw it in the back. I'm just like, all right, that one's down.

Keep moving on. Whether I think it went well or not, because you miss opportunities in front of you if you're focused on what's behind you. So you have to like focus on what's in front of you. There's a really cool quote. Hold on. I have it in my phone. While you're, do you have it like focus on what's in front of you. There's a really cool quote. Hold on. I have it in my phone. While you're… Do you have it?

Yeah. Okay. Go ahead. It's, every time I thought I was being rejected from something good, I was actually being redirected to something better. Oh, I like that. Yeah. That's great. I don't know. I have to get the name.

It's really good. That's actually really good. I like that. So yeah, I really like that a lot. And one thing that I was trying to help you with because one day one day we just had it was a weird day it's one of those days where when you wake up she woke up her eye was swollen shut it was crazy and I had a audition that morning and I had an eye infection my eye was like out here and so I still went to the audition I walked in and I was like hey and I had like this big thing on my eye and they just, I mean, I gave her credit because she showed up, but we walked out and she was, she did, she did, she gave her best while she was there, but we walked out. She had no idea what they were thinking, but we walked out and she was,

she felt off her game. So she wasn't that happy with herself. And so she was not very happy. And I was like, you know, honey, I go, I know today, not today, not today, but one of these days, I promise you it's going to be these experiences that you're going to find the most valuable. Right. Because I know from experience that the days that I have done the best on stage, when I know that I gave like a really great talk and performance, those are not the days that I ever look back to and go, oh, what can I learn from that? Right. Not at are not the days that I ever look back to and go, oh, what can I learn from that? Not at all. The days that I tripped on stage or I said something stupid or I just, whatever, I was having an off day. Those are the days that I cherish,

that I value the most now because those days were so painful in the moment that I wanted to make sure it never happened again. So rather than, I didn't obsess over like the failure. What I did was I made sure that I learned from it. Right. Right. So that's like the falling. When you fall in karate, you get up and then you go over it with your master and you're like, all right, what did I do? So I don't do it again. Like, what do I, can I learn? I need a new strategy. You take something away from each one. So I told her, I'm like, look, I go, just go ahead and like, sort of like have whatever feelings you have about it today. But I promise you one of these days, you're going to be grateful for this chance.

Cause this wasn't a big audition and you'll be grateful for this chance you had to be able to have one of these days that are not great. So you can learn something from it. Yeah. About having bad days. And another thing is when you have a bad day and then you go, you move on, you think of the, you know, the next days or the next day you think, well, I didn't have a swollen eye today, so I did better. Right. So I accomplished something better today because I didn't do as bad as I did yesterday. So it's kind of, even on the bad days, the bad days make your good days even better. Because it's like, well, you know, I did better than I did before. And I think for me, and then I would love to just hear your thought on this and whatever else you have to say. I think the thing that you always want to remember that I always think about is try to make it about relationships more than just your performance. Right. So I think it's really important that at the end of the day, all business, all, even your, especially what you're going into every audition, you're not going into audition for that job. You're

going in to build relationships. First impressions are like key, especially in this industry. Cause if you meet a casting director, they're not just a casting director for that project. So if you walk in and you don't think you're right for the project, it's like, you can't go in with that mindset going, well, I'm not right for this. So I don't have to try. Right. That casting director is going to be there for other stuff. And I think that goes with not just this industry, but with a lot of stuff. You might run into another person one day and then they might look at you and go, oh, that was the girl that gave no effort.

That was the girl that had no enthusiasm. Right. And it might come back to like, you know what I'm saying? So keep the end game in. It's the end game. Yeah, it's the end game. Don't just focus on that one thing. Just like that woman who was in the front row.

I didn't know she was there with another company and was looking for a speaker. I would have no way of knowing that. So it's always giving your best and trying to think about people and relationships. And in the end, it's about the people. It's about the relationships. Yeah, making the connections and yeah. So yeah So just, there's always going to be rejection. People are always going to have opinions. You just, you have to know who you are and give your best and, you know, not let other people's opinions of you dictate who you're going to be. So I think we are so

obsessed in our culture with letting people's opinions dictate the direction of our lives. We're so busy watching reality shows and the Kardashians or whoever else is it, whoever, okay? It's like everybody's opinions of people's lives are, it's how we sort of like see ourselves. And it instills this fear too. It instills this fear of everybody else's opinions. But it's like, what makes that person's opinion more valid than yours? Like what makes them more... At the end of the day, it's not going to matter. They're just a person. Yeah. Right. So that is not, that doesn't have eternal value. Right. I always go back to that. That

doesn't have eternal value. Right. So you have to look at the end game look at the bigger picture stay grounded in who you are if you to me and we've done a lot of work on this since you were little you've got to know your values going in you've got to know your values going in because if you don't then that if you don't have that wall then anything can just come through right anything can just come through and attack you if you don't have that like solid wall in front of you knowing like what you're And if it doesn't fall into those three, I mean, I've got lower values than that, but those are the big three. And if it doesn't sort of meet that, okay, it's probably not going to get through. So those are going to be my big three. Even work comes after that, but work is important to me. My job is important to me, but my work falls into that bigger purpose. I make it fit into that bigger purpose. But anything else, really nobody can sort of get to me because I know I'm clear. So, and you've got yours, you're clear. So, you know, as a family, we focus on our values together,

you know, and you do your journaling and you're very clear on who you are before you go out there. Yeah. And it's not just in the back of my head all the time. It's not just like, oh, I've already got it. It's just there. It doesn't work necessarily like that for me. I'm that person that when things come my way, I'm not always, I'm not always like, nope. Like I don't always have a protective barrier. I'm not always ready for everything is what I'm trying to say. None of us are. Nobody is. So I have to constantly be reminding myself. Every single time I go into an audition, I journal before I go in and I remind myself of what my focus is. My focus is not to go in and get this job. That's not my main goal. My main goal is not to go in and impress somebody. It's to go in and show them who I am and then let them, you know, let them decide for themselves.

You know what I'm saying? Yep. So you just have to have your, you have to keep reminding yourself it's not just there. Excellent. Yeah. So mostly work on yourself. Stay grounded in your values, true to yourself, and don't let other people throw you off. All right. Have a great day. Take care.

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