Chapo Trap House - 1017 - Mogging in Agharta feat. Will Sommer (3/9/26)

Episode Date: March 10, 2026

Will Sommer returns to the show to talk more about the Iran War, this time through the lens of a rapidly fragmenting Republican elite. We discuss the war between the Israel skeptics like Tucker Carlson and the hawks like Mark Levine, and how this ties into a hijacked shipment of nicotine pouches and the transvestigation of Laura Loomer. We also talk about Candace Owens’ docuseries on Erika Kirk, another leaked racist groupchat, and the emerging multiracial coalition of White Supremacy. Follow Will Sommer on Twitter/X: https://x.com/willsommer And check out his newsletter False Flag: https://www.thebulwark.com/s/false-flag

Greetings, friends. It's Monday, March 9th, and this is your chopo. Obviously, on the last couple episodes, Felix and I have been talking to people about the war in Iran as that continues to unfold. But on today's episode, we're going to look at how the war might be playing out on the domestic political front. And to that end, we are joined by our friend Will Summer from the bulwark and the online council of wills, of which both of us. us are charter members. Will, welcome back to the show. Hey, thanks for having me back. I want to get into your piece about how the Warren Iran is playing out on the sort of the MAGA online right and like any potential fractures between Trump and his base. But I guess I'd like to just start with like my observations of at least over the weekend. I'm just going to read here like just a couple

examples from this morning. President Trump had this to say on the possibility of the Strait of Hormuz closing as oil prices surge. These ships should go through the strait and show some guts. There's nothing to be afraid of. This was echoed by Brian Kilmead on Fox and Friends this morning where he said, if you want to diminish the Iranian threat, if you want to make sure this ends with complete around capitulation, show some guts and go through that straight. I will...

I love that that's... That's like what March tells Lisa when she gets bullied. Like just show some guts. Don't let it get to you. Show that you're the bigger person. And also I don't think it's... When your giant liquid natural gas tanker runs into a mine, killing thousands.

And also, I don't think it's the captains of these ships that really make the decision whether to go through a mind part of... Yeah, that's a very, like, mercantilist view of the world. Yeah. That there's just a bunch of, like, free-roaming captains that are finding liquid natural gas and oil wherever. And I would pair those comments with Lindsay Graham's demands that I saw the other day, where Lindsay Graham was essentially demanding that Saudi Arabia commit their military as well to this endeavor.

And I guess what I'm saying is it's not exactly an indication that things are going great when the United States is demanding that Saudi Arabia back us up. And like, Will, I'm just wondering from your observations, like, are there reasons to believe that Trump himself is, already bored of this or rather disappointed that Iran has not surrendered so far? Yeah, I mean, I think they were looking for

like the Venezuela deal where you sweep in, you have some kind of pliable second in command who can take over. And, you know, they're not getting that. I mean, you know, Tucker Carlson, for his part, he says Trump really has no idea how the war is being received. It did strike me how

over the weekend Trump said, you know, we have come to a deal with Iran. We're going to pick their new leaders. And then immediately after Iran, Ron clearly picked their own leaders. So I don't think, you know, that's working out for him. I love begging Saudi Arabia to join, which is just like, yeah, that's the fucking powerhouse in the region.

That's the military everyone's afraid of. What is like the Trumpist rationale for Lindsay Graham begging for Saudi Arabia to join? That like, they didn't do it earlier because they wanted everyone to be able to grind XP and otherwise Saudi Arabia would have just ended the war too quickly. Like they got When they and the UAE Invaded Yemen They were getting pushed back into

Saudi Arabia Multiple generals were killed I don't know Like how are they going to do Against a much better larger And more well-funded Fighting Force People have gone back to this joke a lot

But the old thing about the guy Who kept feeding stray cats to coyotes More or less Right This would be feeding Colombian mercenaries to Iranian. Well, yeah, I just want to say one other thing about the idea

of the Saudis joining the fight. There's another story I think I told on the show during our first year of existence, but one of my earliest internet friends was he was an Egyptian guy whose family were in the Egyptian military during the six-day war. And he told me a story that I will never forget.

And I definitely told it in 2016 in regards to Saudi military prowess. And he talked about his uncle's being in a foxhole during that war. And he said that they saw the Saudis roll up with a convoy of trucks to get into the foxhole. And in the in the trucks, in the beds of the trucks were like shay lounges, a couched, canopy beds. And the Egyptians were like, what the fuck are you doing? And the Saudis went, we're joining the fuck. We're getting in the fox. box hole with you.

On the chaise lounge, on the chaise lounge, all day long, on the shays long. To me, I mean, like, in the demands for Saudi Arabia to get involved, perhaps this was what Marco Rubio was referring to when he made his comments about unleashing Shang the other week. I don't know if you guys caught that, but like, you know, as on this show, as very close observers of the history and career of George H.W. Bush. You may remember that saying that I'm going to unleash Chang was a thing that George H.W. Bush did as part of his tennis game. This was sort of a taunt he did about his serve. But really what it was referring to was it was him making fun of the insane birchers in the Republican Party who kept demanding of him that they unleashed Chang Kai Sheck to refite the Chinese Communist Party and his sort of contempt for that.

Marco Rubio seems to have rebranded it into something that, like, is a threat rather than an insult to the people who he's talking about. You know the backstory for why Marco says that? No, why? Jeb. Well, so the provenance of earnestly saying Unleashed Chang, it actually goes back to the 2016 GOP primary. Jeb was saying this before and during the primary during a short-lived campaign as his like, whenever people would ask him about. China and Taiwan, of course. And I remember us talking about it on the show then, as it was very illustrative of the

this sort of the degeneration of that party, how stupid everyone was, that this guy's son couldn't understand that this was an ironic joke, much less the fact that the idea of unleashing a guy who previously lost that civil war to fight it again is manifestly hilarious and idiotic. But Jeb, who was close with Marco during his rise, both being fellow neocons, gave Marko a sword that allegedly belonged to Chang, that I don't, I have to believe he got that at a mall. I don't believe he had a sword from Shanghai Shack. But Marco, I think it's in his autobiography or ghostwritten autobiography, says that he received a sword. stored from Jeb just from a legendary warrior named Chang who could be like a guy from mortal combat

from the way he describes it. It's degenerated so much it's gone from like we're going to, we're going to use our proxy who already lost a civil war to fight it again against a larger and more organized China too. Oh, um, Jeb, Jeb Bush, my mentor knew this immortal anti-communist from the Mortal Kombat franchise and I have a sword. It was the sword from a Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. Yeah.

Unleash Goro. Get over here. Will, you have a piece up called Maga already hates Trump's Iran war. Because you sketch out for us, like, what are the, what are the sort of the battle lines here? Like, who are the big sort of online, right-wing pundits and influencers? Like, who's coming out or sort of turning their back on Trump as it regards his invasion of or his war against Iran. And, like, who is sticking with the president?

Yeah, I mean, I think on one hand, you know, in terms of the people who are in favor of the war, it's sort of who you'd expect. It's a lot of Fox News people. It's a lot of, like, hardcore pro-Israel people, like Mark Levine and Laura Lumer. But I think the side that's opposed is probably more interesting. I mean, you've got Tucker, who is claiming to, you know, have, he flew to the White House several times to sort of beg Trump not to do the war. You've got Candice Owens who claims that, you know, Charlie Kirk was the first victim, you know,

first casualty of the war because they killed him to make the war happen. And then, you know, you've got obviously Nick Fuentes. You've got, but maybe most interesting, Megan Kelly, who sort of goes wherever she thinks things are headed. And so she clearly is like, oh my gosh, I really hate this war. Yeah, she said she had serious doubts on her show last Monday. And then, of course, interviewing Marjorie Taylor Green, who has like, you know, already left the party, already left politics.

But like, among people like Tucker. Candice, you know, like, you also mentioned the Hodge twins. We all love them. Like, how are they articulating their critique of this war or like, or their opposition to it? Well, you know, I think it's on a couple angles. I mean, certainly someone like Candice Owens, Tucker as well, has said basically, you know, this is the war for, you know, for Israel that, you know, Trump has basically been duped into this. On the other hand, I think someone like Megan Kelly is just like, what's happening here? You know, A lot of these people, I think, really want to help Trump, but they just aren't getting any help from the administration. Like, there's been no effort to explain. It's like they want to be the sort of the stooges pushing the war like we saw in Iraq.

But they just are like, I don't even know what the messaging is supposed to be. So they like they want, they realize that they have like not been provided with enough convincing talking points. So they have to sort of freelance it on their own and they realize that they don't really have much to come up with. Yeah. I mean, they're kind of like the, I don't know, the Saudi Arabia or the Kuwait of the. sort of the domestic side where they're like, look, we don't really know what the point is here. We're not going to stick our necks out unless you give us some more. So, I mean, certainly, you know, someone like Matt Walsh at the Daily Wire, who's like a pretty kind of down the middle, regular pro-Trump guy.

He's saying that, you know, we're being asked to trust the plan. You know, it's like Q and on or that. I guess the specific comparison is to like Fauci and saying, you know, obviously for these people, like, you know, we were told to trust the science and now we're saying trust Trump. I mean, one thing that's been striking to me is how the argument, I think, from the pro-war side has been like, look, you know, we all hate the forever wars. We hated Iraq. You know, obviously they didn't at the time. But now they're saying, but the difference is Trump is just

like really, really a lot more competent. And so people like Pete Hague Seth are going to win where Donald Rumsfeld could not. Including comments from Will Chamberlain here, I think is perfectly indicative of that. He says, quote here is, the point of being against regime change wars was not that regime change is inherently bad, but rather that our political and military leadership couldn't pull it off in an efficient and effective manner. When the facts change, you should change your mind. And I talked about this a little bit last week, but like the idea here being that like, okay, like regime change was bad because the Trump, sorry, the George W. Bush administration

was too incompetent to do it correctly. But now they're taking a bite of a much bigger apple that like, you know, a regime change in Iran is considerably exponentially more difficult, you know, within, what they managed to do in Iraq. And as I said, the people in charge of taking this big bite of the apple are already choking on it and don't know, like, we can't even get their stories straight about what they are or aren't doing. Yeah, I mean, it's just crazy.

I mean, that the argument is like, we're going to do it right. Unlike the Bush administration, we got the guy who sent the war plants to Jeffrey Goldberg at the Atlantic. You know, this is the guy who can pull it off. So, I mean, it's really a mess. I mean, I think from a messaging point of view, like we talked about, I mean, I think people, like Megan Kelly are pretty willing to get on board for the part where they say, isn't it amazing, the power of the American troop?

Like, look at that big oil refinery blow up. But they just really don't have any material to do it with. Did you see the, I think the Senate Foreign Relations Committee put it out, but it was a Tom Cotton quote about how not only has there been a 47-year imminent war with Iran, which something being imminent for 47 years is just a hilarious concept, but that Trump is finally ending it. Like that, that seems to be the thing they settled on. Like that it's season nine of a sitcom and he's finally resolving the will they won't

their question. Yeah, the argument is that, you know, oh, we don't want forever wars. Trump is going to be Donald the Dove and we're not going to have forever wars. But he's, in fact, by starting this war, he's ending Iran's Forever War. against us. In a sense, in a sense that like, hopefully no one ever fucking tries it again after this disaster. That's like saying the New York Jets have been an imminent threat to win the Super Bowl for

the last 47 years. Another tack I've been seeing among, I don't know, like, what I would imagine would be like the more hardcore, like dissident right, pseudo-neo-Nazi accounts, is it like they seem most willing to continue to. to back Trump, despite the fact that many of them have explicitly said, like, we're voting for Trump to prevent a war with Iran. And, like, you'll never see boots on the ground.

I think they're saying now is, like, the attack I've been seeing from, like, captive dreamer, that's the account I'm talking about, that, like, he's like, look, you know, let's be mature about this. Like, you don't get everything you want in politics. Like, maybe this isn't something we all like or, like, would have voted for, you know,

had we known this was going to happen. But, like, keep your eye on the prize, which is, like, the mass deportation. of every non-white person in America. So, like, Israel gets what they want. America had an attack on Iran. And, like, you know, if we just keep the faith, we'll get what we want,

which is the deportation of, like, I don't know, between 50 and 100 million people. Well, the problem with that is, like, well, Israel's already gotten what they wanted, but it seems to be, like, the goal of mass deportations would seem to be further out of reach than it ever has been.

And then also, because Trump himself, is like already saying we need to chill out with this and like hey like there's a lot of good people who work in the agricultural food and hospitality industries that like you know really like they're good people we shouldn't you know let's not get too bent out of shape over it in that same post he said um you know it would be one thing if people were saying i really like what trump is doing domestically but i don't like this but people now want to throw out the whole thing because they don't like the iran thing which is just you know you better start believing in brand it

stories because you're fucking in one pal if you torment will stancel for long enough you will become him well you know i mean first captive dreamer i mean this is kind of one of the great fail sons of the second trump administration i mean this guy memorably his dad came out and was like i hate my racist son and you know he he had kind of a sexy david caresh profile pick and then it came out i don't know you have you got see what this guy looks like oh yeah he's got he's only got like a cone head essentially, like just like an enormous forehead. And I mean, even a lot of people on the right are they're saying, you know, you know, some people find having large foreheads to be...

Well, I was going to say, I mean to be picking a fight, you know, on this issue. So, yeah, I mean, you know, it's interesting that the deportations thing has come up. I mean, on the other hand, someone like Matt Walsh is saying, I think, credibly, he's saying, you know, we're told that we can't get mass deportations because it's logistically impossible, which I think, you know, given that they, basically tried this in Minneapolis. It was a huge disaster and they had to pull out. I mean, how are they going to do this across the country?

But he's saying, so we're told that's too complicated by the Trump administration. But toppling the Iranian government is something we can do. Yeah. Yeah, that's a very good point by Mr. Walsh. But I guess I'm interested, like, you mentioned, like, among the most prominent critics of Trump's war in Iran is Tucker Carlson. And like, I'm really wondering, like, how is he, how is he scoring this circle? Because I know he, like, wants to influence the administration.

He thinks of himself as close to the administration. But, like, didn't Trump just come out the other day and say that he's no longer MAGA and, like, he's sort of been kicked out of the movement? And, like, Tucker seems to be trying to say that, like, this is all Israel's fault. And we would have had a perfect Trump second term in office if it wasn't for just Israel making him do this. But, like, as Felix brings up over and over again, it's hard to make that argument. when Trump was already president for 40 years prior to this. Yeah, I mean, Tucker is clearly, all these guys, I think, are really walking a line. With the exception to Marjorie Taylor Green, who just comes out and said on Megan Kelly,

she's like, what the fuck is going on? The president's senile. And so, but everyone else is kind of like, you know, oh my gosh, I sure wish Trump, you know, would stop listening to Benjamin Netanyahu. I mean, in Tucker's case, he tweeted, pray that the spell will pass. You know, I mean, as though Trump's under the sway of like some kind of worm tongue type figure. It's like it's not a spell. Like no spell has been cast, Tucker.

You voted for this guy and he won the election. That's not magic. I love that they're having their very own push Trump from push Trump to I don't know the anti-intervention is right once he's elected, despite years and years of evidence to the contrary. But Brett Cooper,

who I put her in a club with that who's that actor Glenn something. He was in a movie of Sidney Glenn Powell. Glenn Powell. Glenn Powell and Brett Cooper, there are two people who were born in like 1995, but they sound like silent film stars.

Like they sound like their names make them sound like they were in a movie with Al Jolson. But I see them and they're younger than me. But Brett Cooper had a thing where she was like, let's pray that Lindsey Graham gets a boyfriend so we could stop going to war. And it's like, that wouldn't be a problem if the guy, that you went out of your way to elect twice and attempted to elect three times

didn't keep doing this guy's fucking bidding despite apparently declaring himself to be his mortal enemy in fucking 2016. Yeah, you know, I do feel like a lot of people are targeting Lindsey Graham. Megan McCain came out and was just like, they got to stop putting Lindsay out there. He's going crazy.

And it's like, you know, that's your dad's homie. You know, that's your uncle, essentially. Yeah, yeah. By the way, I feel like you've brought up Brett Cooper and I would just like to use you just reminded me I'd like to use this opportunity here to bring out the chopper department of

corrections on our episode about the Penn Dragon cycle I referred to the bull jumping scene depicted in episode one of that show as referencing the Mycenaean culture that was in error it was in fact the Minoan culture of

the classical antiquity so sorry I've docked my pay listener I punish myself for that grave misapprehension. Employee Spencer will be deprived of food for one month for this area. But Will, like, you sketch up there's like a lot of, a lot of high profile megafigures. I've been very critical of Trump on this based on kind of their, I don't know, sticking to, at least their professed values of being like anti-interventionism, anti-regime change, let's fight the war at home on immigrants and liberals, et cetera. But is there any evidence that this is

anything other than a kind of media phenomenon. Because it seems like as far as Republican or MAGA voters as just Republicans go, they seem to be the only group in this country that it seems to be pretty four square supporting the president and this war right now. Yeah, I mean, I don't want to overstate it. I mean, I do think that like, you know, there was that poll last week that said 85% of Trump voters are backing him on this. So, you know, on one hand, yeah, I think that's true.

On the other, I think it's still telling that these people who kind of like rely on staying in their audience as good graces, someone like Megan Kelly, for example, that I think she can see which way it's blowing and saying, oh, geez, you know, what her gas price is going to look like in two weeks. I don't really want to be out here saying, you know, that this war was the greatest thing ever once the warm turns, as it were. I mean, I think that they're, you know, and obviously these guys have an impact on public opinion. So I think if Trump can wrap it up really soon, which seems essentially impossible, I think it'll blow over. But otherwise, I think, you know, he's going to start seeing more and more of kind of like the grassroots people

start sounding more like Tucker Carlson. Well, I mean, to stay with Tucker Carlson, one of my favorite things to observe is like the absolute crusade being waged against, I'm going to use his own nickname for him, Tucker Catarlson, which is, I think that's pretty good.

Mark Levin, Mark Levin and Laura Lumer, being like the most pro-Israel, the most pro-Iran war. They have fixated on Tucker Katarlson is like the the apostate in question that must be excommunicated from MAGA. Obviously, they're handling the evolution of current events with, I would say, typical and expected calm, even-handedness. And, you know, speaking, you know, a fine even keel to their public comments on this.

Yeah, I mean, they're really going crazy over it. I mean, you know, there's also, I should say, Tucker has like an evil twin brother, or not a twin, I guess, evil brother named Buckley. Buckley is like sort of like dissolute Tucker and all he does is fight with Laura Lumer on Twitter all day. And so this is a few days ago, but Laura was like, she's like, after dealing with you Buckley and seeing, you know, Tucker Kutarlson, I can see why your mother abandoned you when you were six years old. Essentially, she's doing the like, you know, people beat up on deadbeat dads, but what if the kid had bad vibes tweet? he's like, you know, I don't blame your mom for leaving you. I mean, it's getting crazy. I will say the thing about Tucker Cotarlson is, I mean, this guy, he loves Qatar.

And it makes you wonder what's going on. I mean, he claimed to have bought an apartment in Qatar. He went to a Qatar conference and came back the next day and said, you know, maybe Qatar Qatar should be our number one ally in the Middle East. So there's a lot of influences here and kind of like agendas at play. An apartment in Qatar? That's such a weird. Like, why not a, he makes a shit?

I mean, I don't know how much he makes now doing. in the Tucker's show on X, but presumably he could get some sort of housing voucher. The apartment just seems like such a weird choice to me. I'm with you. This sort of World Warwick's is also playing out in Tucker's, his sort of sponsored nicotine pouch brand called Alps. And they're going at Laura Luma through Alp promo discount codes.

And it was actually the occluded Carlson, the Phil brother, Buckley Carlson. it's like get 25% off your out pouches with a promo code Larry Lumer and he see he likes to imply that Laura Lumer was in fact a born a man and has transitioned into a woman as Laura Lumer. That's right. And this is their marketing strategy. I mean, so yeah, so Alp pouches are kind of like their Zinn knockoff. And Buckley, I don't know if he runs social media for Alp, but it sounds a lot like him, but Buckley's been pushing this idea that Laura was a transgender man or named Larry. And so sort of a Brigitte McCrone situation, according to Candace Owens.

And so, I mean, that's, and then Alp is saying, you know, get a discount on your, you know, your rustic pine alp by using code Larry Loomer. And now Laura is fighting back. And she's going to the FDA, which is reviewing Al Pouches for, I guess, like sort of a permanent release. and she's saying, you know, they're stealing my, essentially stealing my identity. They're using, they're making people think I endorse this product by saying I'm trans. I like how that's their version of like left-wing people accusing each other being Democrats.

Bridget McCrone getting dragged into this, you know. She's a, well, she's a bassoid and Laura Lumer. What if that was his thing? He was like, he calls her like a medicalist. It's like not passoid, a medicalist. You know, Laura's other beef with them is that they have posted these Photoshop pictures of her to look worse. And I will say, you know, Laura's obviously gotten some plastic surgery done.

What? Repeated. I know. I know. So she's had a couple kind of different faces. But, you know, people love. doing the photoshopped ones and, you know, people then say to me, I'm pretty sure that's really her face. And it's like, no, you know, I've followed this saga for a long time. And so in this case,

they were indeed posting, uh, posting fake ones. And so that's another grievance. I mean, pretty funny of Laura Lumer to be like, they're slandering my reputation by knowingly posting false things that are offensive. Yeah. And anyway, here's a three-year-old who's being sent to America because Israel blew his legs off. He's a terrorist. Yeah, exactly. Just as a, a say that question. Will, have you got a chance to sample any of the Alp pouches being offered by Tucker Cartarleson? Well, I can't because they hijacked that truck. Um, you know, so, no, I, I haven't. I'm not a big pouch guy. Do you guys pack lips? Uh, no, I, I, I, I, I tried to use the Zin once and I found the sensation, uh, rather unpleasant. But, uh, based on its, it's marketing copy, I think, I think,

Al promises even more nicotine than, than Zin, which is saying a lot. I used to dip. which is, you know, it shows how much things have changed. When I was a young man, like pouches, you got made fun of forgetting pouches. Like, pouches were for girls. But at least with dip pouches, you still spit. Like, half the point of this is spitting. To take spitting out of the game is just, I don't get it at all. I tried to Zen once.

I just really don't like it. I don't think I'll go back to dipping, but I definitely don't enjoy that shit. It just feels so medicinal. Well, you know, they're ramping up the amount of nicotine. Alp. You know, this new brand Alp Drifter has, you know, has, I think.

Yeah. Yes, enjoy the smooth nicotine flavor of a man unmoored from family community as he wanders town to town. John Kasich is like their Joe Camel. From freight car to

rail yard. Yeah, like when the local sheriff is hassling you for vagrancy, just simply pack a mouth full of high-intensity nicotine. The Surgeon General's warnings are just like symbols. It's like a lip with a skull over it. Oh, wait. Well, you mentioned the Alp, uh, the Alp truck hijacking. Uh, could, good, good. Did you get into that?

Uh, like, there was a shipment of Alp that was hijacked. Goodfeller style. Yeah. Terrible in the Alp community. Yeah, late last month, a new shipment of the new Alp brand Drifter, which promises tropical flavor and way more nicotine, the previous Alp, was hijacked using fraudulent credentials.

So this wasn't like a gun in the driver's face situation. This was a little more fancy. And so now Alps had to delay the shipment. And Laura Lumer, you know, she could not have been happier. She posted, oh, poor Tucker, what a poor guy. Yeah, Tucker. Charleston is having a bad week. Gee, what a shame.

Maybe look at her. What did she know? And so yes, now the Alp wars have started. I'm going to say like, of the sort of the pro-Iran war, pro-Israel, pro-Trump faction, I really got to

say, Mark Levin is like my favorite character. He's one of my favorite like regime adjacent pundits. Because like just just yesterday, I believe he called Trump, the first Jewish president, and Trump said he's right. But I love, I love Mark Levin's posting style because like, you know, repetition is the key. And like in the weeks leading up to the Iran war kicking off, like he would post over and over again,

kill Khomeini now. Kill Khomeini now. And now that they killed him and they've replaced him with like his grandson, I think. He's out. Yeah, he's out today. And he's going, kill the other one now. Kill the other one now. But like, how would you describe Mark Levin as like a right wing media figure?

Well, I feel like he's the only, you know, he's kind of like maybe like the greatest like just like pure like right wing hawk that we have like left. You know, I think there are obviously a lot of people who wanted this war. I think they've sort of moderated, you know, they don't come out and say just like blow it up. Whereas Mark Levin, I mean, every time I turn into, you know, he calls him, you know, the great one is his nickname. You know, every time I turn into, tune into his show, he's, like, ranting about some reporter who gave him, like, a slightly critical remark. I mean, he's just an angry, angry guy. And I think it seems as though even this war hasn't made him happy. He was demanding.

I guess there's a House GOP convention in Florida this week. And he was like, they need to expel Tucker and Candace from the movement or we're going to lose the midterms. Like, Mark, I got news for you about that. I don't think that's the main issue. that that's okay like that that that's one way to salvage the uh electoral future of the republican party coming up because yeah the polls are not looking good for them right now i'm moving on from iran like will i really i really did want to talk to you recently about the the candace owens erika kirk the ongoing saga there i mean we mentioned this on the show

but like candace like for all the people who have condemned her and like all the people who or like, Candace, no, you've gone too far. Candice, we have to, like, excommunicate her. This is crazy. Like, she stays winning. And she has recently come out with, like, a sort of a new docu series. Because, like, there was a sort of peace summit a while ago between her and Erica Kirk, where Candice came out of it and she seemed to be somewhat chastened and just being like,

hey, like, we're going to work together to salvage Charlie's legacy. That lasted about a second. I don't know. Because you talk about Candice's new series. is exposing the real Erica Kirk. It's so good. I mean, that Peace Summit in early December, I mean, she came out and she's like,

all right, Erica, you know, sort of, you know, satisfied all my conspiracy theories. We talked about it. There's peace. And two days later, she had this, like, totally discredited guy who said he had Erica meeting with, like, military snipers

on a military base the day before. So the piece did not last long. Oh, my God. So the new docu-series is called Bride of Charlie, which is obviously I guess a play That's pretty good. That's pretty good.

That's not bad. That's not bad, I got to say. I guess a play on Bride of Chucky. Yes. So, but you know, and so she's kind of promising like, you know,

we're really going to get to the bottom of this, you know, this infamous grifter and deep state operative, Erica Kirk. But all this stuff, I mean, people say this a lot, but like watching one of these episodes,

it's like you'll feel like you're having a stroke because she'll, she kind of will rattle something off and you're like, okay, and then like 10 months later, She's like, what? And what did that have to, you know, what is that? That doesn't mean she assassinated her husband. For example, she'll say, you know, Erica's parents, when they got

divorced, they listed Erica's birthday as this. But then on her birth certificate, it lists it three days later. Okay. Whoa. We're through the looking glass here, people. Yeah, that's, I mean, like, I, Erica Kirk, I don't, I don't know how it's like still a going concern after there was that tape of her going like, all right, yeah. y'all, we sure had some fun at my husband's funeral. Great work at the merch table. Oh, yeah, that's right. I'm sad.

Our husband's dead. Who's coming to the after party, y'all? But out of anyone who's ever lived, she seems the most likely for her parents to forget her birthday. Like, that's just kind of the person and the type of person she is. It doesn't prove anything. I mean, like, Will, you highlighted some of the stoning revelations here that Candace has uncovered about Erica Kirk.

the divorce paperwork for Erica Kirk's parents slightly misstated the year they were married. One of Eric's ancestors was arrested for working for an illegal numbers racket 85 years ago. Erica Kirk was born, okay, this is my favorite. Erica Kirk was born in a civilian hospital

that was started by the military in the Civil War. This is advanced parapolitic. Yeah. Very good. And Erica Kirk once dressed as a bee in a photo taken of her while she was in daycare. Okay, I understand the implication of like,

I understand the implication of being like Erica Kirk was born in a military hospital. The hospital she was born in was founded by the U.S. military in 1864 before, I don't know, just becoming a regular hospital. But what is the implication of her in a like sort of cute infant bee costume in preschool.

Well, and making Masonic hand signs at the time. Oh, okay. So here's the deal. So obviously, so she's making kind of like a trapezoid with her hands that you know, Candice feels as Masonic. But the bee thing is so in Utah, Mormons are very into bee and honey

comb, you know, beehive iconography because that's kind of how they see their church. It's like everyone's doing their role. So after Charlie Kirk's assassination, Candace kind of casts around and she's like, oh my gosh, there's like a bee in this company's logo or there's a bee in this organization's logo. And so she became convinced that some sort of... The freelancers union? That's a beehive logo. That's a beehive right there.

Where were they on the big day? Yep. Yeah. So she became convinced that there was like some sort of bee cult that might have been involved in the murder. And then when she saw this bee costume, she was like, oh my gosh, there it is. Okay. Now I'm just like my third eye is wide open here, Will. Okay, you remember the film B movie? Mm-hmm. Jerry Seinfeld. Yeah, about Bay B is suing humanity for a cut of the honey they've been taking.

Created by Jerry Seinfeld. Well-known Zionist and Jewish person. But, like, well, it goes on here, like, it does seem to be Candice. It does seem to be implying that Erica Kirk is Jewish. I think, like, a lot of the sort of the thrust of this investigation is to, like, suddenly imply that Erica Kirk is Jewish. So what's the evidence for that?

I mean, okay. Can I just say something? Can we leave anti-Semitism to the professionals? Look, if you've seen Erica Kirk pre-plastic surgery, which I, a lot of people have really gotten bad plastic surgery. Christy Knoem being the head of that. I used to love how Christy Knoem looked. And now she just looks like they ironed her face. she looks really fucked up. I really don't like what they did. But Erica, Erica had such a cute, like,

Bavarian milkmaid nose. I loved her face. And now she has this horrifying, like, family guy thing. But in either event, like, no Jewish person has ever had Erica Kirk's face.

Ever. Ever. She is, like, her, if you want to talk about her ancestors, they were all like, you know,

their family reunions, everyone looks like Ralph, Ralph Fines from fucking Schindler's list. There's no way. It's the classic Scandinavian square head look, but like, but, but, but this is a little hooplehead. Yeah, yeah. But, but this is the touch on here.

Will I'm going to read from your piece here. It says, Owen's material actually often turns out to be quite bland. She spends a chunk of the first episode of Bride of Charlie focusing on whether Erica Kirk, whose father's family is Swedish, has been using the Swedish word, more far mother's father when she should be using the word far far far father's father to describe

her paternal grandfather in Instagram posts you write a normal person might say to this who gives a fuck but do owens this is serious stuff the more far far far scandal troubles me deeply owen said apparently not in jest it's crazy the scandal we all know that this big scandal I mean at one point she's like, this doesn't make any sense because the grandfather would have corrected her. He said, no, no, no, I'm your far far. Well, the post she's citing is about her grandfather dying. So he wouldn't have been around to say, hey, I saw, I saw what you posted on IG. That was her first assassination.

Yeah, she killed the grandfather, so it wouldn't correct her. But also, like, Candace's former collaborators at the Daily Wire, like Ben Shapiro, I mean, like, look, they hired her, then they fired her. But like, you know, Ben Shapiro says now that like, you know, what Candace is doing to Erica Curry is, quote, satanic. And, you know, like, leaving aside my personal distaste for all of these people, I mean, it's like, yeah, like, if your friend got murdered and then, like, one of your ex friends dedicated their entire life to attacking the widow of the person that was

murdered, that would be like, you know, that's a, that's pretty low. But that being said, like, they don't seem to be, they don't seem to have had much success in sort of disciplining their own audience or Candace's audience or like the pool of right-wing media consumers to like stay away from this or that it's all crazy or that you shouldn't be platforming this or you shouldn't be listening to Candace. Because like, it seems like with all these things, like when the sort of the headmaster admonishes you like not to consume certain media or this is dangerous or a kooky conspiracy theory. That's like ringing the, ringing the dinner bell to these people. Like, what do you, what do you make of

their sort of increasingly desperate attempts to try to like, head Candace office at the past before she keeps coming out with more, more damning far far, scandal material? Yeah, I mean, basically, I think like over, ever since Trump really got on the scene, and even before that, the right has really lost the ability to sort of like police what their audience believes, you know, as long as it doesn't like the craziest thing. I mean, you can see there. I mean, Ben Shapiro is someone who profited from having Candace in his company. I mean, this was after she made kind of some pro-Hitler remarks that he brought her in.

And now he's saying, you know, okay, but like this one time, you know, you can't really believe her. You know, for people on the right, that smacks of cancel culture. You know, we saw this at the Turning Point Convention in December where Ben Shapiro gets up and sort of points out what you said, which is, like, this is pretty twisted. This guy was, like, executed in front of the whole world. and now we're dragging his widow around and saying she murdered him and all this stuff. And then Russell Brand gets up and he goes, hey, I don't want to do,

boy, I don't want to do any cancel called Chehia. And, you know, so there are a lot of people who got up and did that same thing where they were, they're saying, you know, I think we can have both Ben Shapiro and Candace in the same party, which is, you know, I don't think it's really tenable. And I think the view counts certainly show who's winning. I mean, Ben Shapiro's are going down. All his commenters are saying, you know,

he sold out to cover up the Charlie Kirk murder. Candice is thriving. Well, it reminds me of how, you know, I think this is part of a broader schism and a broader self-contradiction in a broader coalition, which is, okay, we can issue hateful and effective against everyone, against all types of immigrants,

against black people, against Latinos. We can say that Haitians are eating cats and dogs. But don't ever say anything about Israelis, nothing about Jews, and we can keep those things separated forever. Yeah. Like, how can you do this thing where it's like, oh, yeah, Tim Walts killed those like hapless fucking Minnesota state legislators.

Like, I don't buy that insane guy. But like, how dare you talk about Erica Kirk who, uh, she, like, there aren't even that many sparklers on her funeral suit. Yeah, I mean, that's what we're seeing. It's not that festive of a costume. Yeah, I mean, we're seeing this kind of this sense among, you know, what, and I use this lightly, like sort of like the intellectuals. of the right are getting sort of disgusted with their audience.

And so, you know, we've seen this in some cases with Richard Hannaia, who's like become a totally, like, weird, kind of like lib-coded guy because he's just like, I'm sick of these idiots. But also, you know, I think more importantly, people like James Lindsay, conceptual James, Chris Rufo. Chris Rufo, yeah. And they're just looking around. He would be the most, like, the most sterling example of someone who, you know, like, the right-wing intellectuals, the book readers on the right, like, they betray

the absolute contempt they have for their audience because they're like, oh, I can program these dumb-dums by saying that Haitians are eating people's cats. And then when called on it, I'll say, well, it's an issue. And it's a way to get people to talk about it. But then, like, when you feed an audience of, like, nonstop bigotry and conspiracy theories, then when someone else programs them with things that you find distasteful or are getting out of hand, you're like, hey, it's getting too far now. And, like, you know, they're kind of this anti-intellectualism and conspiracy mongering has become a big issue, only because nobody's fucking listening to Chris Rufo anymore. Well, I mean, you know, I'll give you another example.

Tyler Olavera, who's one of these YouTube, you know, Nick Shirley types, who kind of bangs around towns, he pushed a lot of the Haitian eating dog stuff. Then obviously you have Nick Shirley saying, you know, Somalis are these welfare sponges. Then this Tyler guy goes to New Jersey and looks at the Orthodox Jews, and he says, you know, they're pulling welfare scams too. And suddenly everyone like Chris Rufo saying, whoa, oh, hold up, hold up. people have been promoting these earlier things. I mean, we've talked about this on the show before,

but like it seems like a big debate in the right is like whether you can have a political movement largely based on outright open hostility to every minority group. And the question is whether you can include or not include Jewish people in the, like, you know, like are they in the club or out? And it's just like, how, like,

if your politic is going to be like outright, like ethnic nationalism, and what case in history has that ever been, like, fomented in which Jewish people were not always, always become the target of the, you know, as an outgroup to this kind of like, you know, like I said, like ethno-nationalist politics. Like they, it seems like, you know, people like Chris Rufo, like, and the people met at Tyler Oliva. They're like, oh, wait, wait, wait, hold on a second. We didn't mean Jewish people. We just meant Asians, black people, Muslims, Arabs, like, you know, like, you know, like, uh, Asians, South Asians, East Asians, Latinos, Central Americans, but we did not mean Jewish people. Like, guys, this has gotten crazy. This is out of hand now. No, it's crazy. I mean, they fed into all of it. And now they're saying, you know, like, you know, you guys have crossed over a line here.

To that end, there was a, there was a story that came out over the weekend about yet another one of these sort of group chats getting leaked. And now this one involved, members of the Florida State GOP. And the name of the chat was gooning in Agartha. And that is where the humorous aspects of this story ceases. Because the contents of this chat were just basically nonstop poisonous racism. You know, imagine it in your head that's what they were saying. I mean, like calling black people the N-word, calling for non-stop.

death and torture of black people. But like, well, like, this is like the third or fourth one of these stories. Like, how does the Florida GOP? Like, what has there been response to this? And like, what does this say broader about basically young Republicans in America today? Yeah, I mean, and as I think you hinted at, like all of these people were Hispanic, needless to say. And so they're, I mean, I think what it says is, is, you know, something that's been talked about,

gosh, going back to Charlottesville. Alex Perrine wrote about this at the time, but that's like the energy on the right that's attracting young people to be like professional Republicans is, I think for the vast majority of them, this kind of racist stuff, this Groyperism, this anti-Semitism. And that's why we keep seeing these group chats leak where, you know, privately, they're just insanely racist. You know, Rick Scott, the senator from Florida, the Florida Republican Party came out and said, oh, you know, this is awful. But, you know, obviously these people didn't care when Nick Fuentes was dining with Trump at Mar-a-Lago. I mean, all these other instances we could point to.

So I think there's the sense of like, sorry kids, you blew up your spot, you got to go, you made it too explicit. But I don't think there's really like truly like deep concern about this. It says one of the chats was titled Uber Retards Yapping Incorporated. And like, you know, this is something like, you know, that we've talked about on the show and I know I know you've covered. But like it's the sense of like it's nihilism and like it's like guys in irony or like you can make it seem so absurd.

it sort of inoculates you from like the fact that like you're giving yourself permission to just really let this kind of violent hatred out of you and like express but expressing it in this kind of like meme language like gooning in agartha i guess that's my question like explain to our listeners who maybe aren't familiar with it what agartha is and like how did the sort of conspiracy theory or i don't know whatever mythical concept of agartha become such a thing on the kind of neo-Nazi right wing. I notice we don't need an explanation of what gooning is. Sounds good.

You've heard that before on the show. Yeah, so Agartha is kind of this idea of like a sort of like Nazi heaven, like maybe in the mountains. It's kind of like what the Nazis in like Indiana Jones, like the occult Nazis might have been looking for. And I think there are a lot of TikTok memes about like Agartha, this kind of like mountain redoubt for for all white people. I've seen a lot of ones of like Jeffrey Epstein escorting Charlie Kirk's like ghost to Agartha and like living there with Hitler. But like, no, no, I don't mean to correct you well, but like I mean, I could be wronger. I always thought Agartha was the hollow earth. It was like the kind of like paradise at the center of the earth, which is the hollow earth theory.

Isn't that part of it though? What? It's part of like a cobbled together like SS occult mythology, right? Yeah. It involves a hollow earth. I would defer to you on this. There's some weird N-O-I stuff in there. I mean, people yell, Gakub is a timeless character.

I can't wait till he's in the public domain. You know, Agartha could be a lot of places, but Hollow Earth sounds unbelievable to me. Spencer reminds me Miles Davis had an album named Gartha. Known hyperborean Miles Davis. But this is also like, it's just something very specifically Florida about this. Like, you know, these are all like right-wing Miami Cubans who, you know, as you mentioned are, I don't know, by various criteria of racial categorization. Like white, not white. I mean, this is certainly how they see themselves.

But like there does seem to be like, I saw a poll today. This is done by the Manhattan Institute, which is like, you know, a right-wing thing tank. And according to their polling, 54% of Republicans under the age of 50 believe that the Holocaust was in some way fraudulent,

either exaggerated or did not happen at all or was, you know, like the historians have been lying about it. And among breaking down by demographics among Republicans who most believe it, it is in fact Latino and black Republicans who believe

that the Holocaust is fake, more than young white Republicans. But still, overall, Republicans under 50, according to the Manhattan Institute, if you want to take them seriously, believe that the Holocaust didn't happen. Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, I think there's a lot of, you know,

there's a lot of these figures. I mean, obviously, Nick Fuentes most prominently. I mean, I think even if they aren't coming out and say, you know, the Holocaust is fake, there's a lot of people who are saying, you know, oh, the, you know, the logistics don't make sense. I mean, Nick Fuentes was famously saying, you know, could cookie monster, you know, cook six million cookies at once or whatever. Funny.

So, yeah, right? I mean, so, you know, and in fact, you know, to your point about, you know, black and Latino Republicans, dating podcaster Myron Gaines, whose name is, of course, because you're admiring his gains in the gym. He was, you know, he got a lot of-easter agent. Yes, a former DHS agent, make of that what you will. You know, he was kicked out of the TPSA convention for wearing one of these cookie monster shirts.

So I think, yeah, I mean, you know, as I think this chat would suggest as well, I think this is like pretty widespread thinking. Well, it's a terrible new meaning to the term Latino tweets. Latina tweets, I'm sorry. But it does seem to be that like, there seems to be an emerging sort of multiracial neo-Nazi coalition, like kind of coalescing on the right. Yeah, no, I think that's real. And on the surface, it is, it is obviously very strange and like contradictory, but like,

I think like if you think, if you, I don't know, roll it around in your head, like, it does make a certain sense in terms of like who gets in and out of the club and if you want to be in the club the way to like you know your your sort of I don't know entrance to the VIP section is how willing you are to

I don't know go full Nazi or like how willing you are to attack the other like you know attack and dehumanize the other out groups which include most white people in this country ironically oh yeah I mean actually heritage Americans

yeah If we want to use that term. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, look, I mean, we're talking a few days after Enrique Tario, the head of the proud boys, who I think is black Latino, was, you know, hugging Marco Rubio at the meeting of the shield of the Americas, which, you know, the fact that Enrique Tario was involved is kind of giving like, like Operation Condor vibes. You know, these kind of like, these sort of like would-be fascist figures. So I do think that, you know, this is kind of like Latino, you know, black like far-right groups are,

I mean, you know, I was just talking about Myron Gaines as well. Yeah. Yeah, I saw this Manhattan Institute poll too, and I was like, I guess slightly skeptical in how you reconcile it with like this overwhelming support for Israel and intervention in Iran among the GOP. But then I saw, and again, you know, this is extremely anecdotal. But I saw a great screenshot of like a Republican guy arguing with like, you know, just some random guy on Twitter. And they're arguing about Iran. and this guy said you know the guy

he was arguing with said he tried to make a point using the Holocaust as an example and the guy's refutation was one the Holocaust literally didn't happen two well what about October 7th

oh my God I guess there is like there is like some room to be like yeah a guy who a guy who thinks the Holocaust didn't happen, but also like we need to make these Ivy Leagues like less anti-Semitic and go to war with Iraq. I, you know, if there is one thing that is true about America and especially right-wing movements in America, it takes all kinds. It really does. I guess I mean, I guess it shouldn't be too

surprising because like whether it's, you know, Jewish state or not, like, if you are a fascist and like your, you know, your dream for the world is more or less unrestrained war all the time against everyone. I mean, like, you know, there's a lot to admire in the conduct of the Israeli state. I mean, you know, not for nothing. It's not like Israel is, or Israeli society, for that matter, is really that well known for its great conduct

and treatment of Holocaust victims. This is a pretty fucking nasty slang term for them over there. Well, moving on to another bit of domestic political news, the ouster of Christy Noem from the Department of Homeland Security. Christy Noem is out and Mark Wayne Mullen is in. And I wish I got to say, that's two first names. Like, well, what are you doing? Mark Wayne, pick one.

But Will, what was the, like, have you been following this? Like, what led to Christy Noam's ouster? Because, like, obviously, like, Minneapolis could not have gone worse for them. But, like, it was sort of a combination of, that and this like ludicrous corruption that's just been uh been come to come to the four hours of late yeah i mean i think the real issue for her was not like the corruption but that she sort of said trump had given her permission to be corrupt where she said you know trump approved in her senate hearing they they were asking her about this 200 million dollar ad campaign about her riding on

horseback and they said well like why did this happen and she said well look trump approved it and you know whether that's true or not it sort of seems like trump is like like look you can kind of do your griff, but don't put me on the hook for it. I have my own grifts going on. And also, like, I feel like the talk about her affair with Corey Lewandowski, this alleged affair was just becoming, like, so crazy, like, with her husband in the room when she's getting asked about it. And, you know, I think she got the boot for that reason.

I wouldn't say I felt bad for her, but I did, like, I put myself in her boots for a second, where that hearing where the guy was, like, pointed out that Cory Lewandowski was drunk and got into a fist fight on the plane. over like her blanket or something and her husband is in the row behind her looking like Michael Douglas in falling down

like there's no one has ever clenched his jaw harder he needs an entire new set of molars imagine like that happens and then it's like you immediately have to go home you can't even be like oh I'm like did they need me at like the border

you can't go oh oh I'll just give this a few days to cool down this horrible public humiliation of my family and my husband you just you immediately have to go home and like sit in silence while you both watch Landman but uh

well I want to go back to the the ad that a lot of this a lot of the controversy suppose so Chrissy Knoam cut an ad like for herself and the Department of Homeland Security that involved her riding on horseback this was like a political ad

I don't even know how long it was but the budget was $200 million. What is she making avatar? Like what? How did she spend $200 million on that? Well, that's what's so crazy about it. I mean, like, ProPublica has done some reporting on this. I mean, it's sort of inexplicable.

I mean, I think it was this whole ad campaign. Part of it was her riding on the horse. Her, her, one of her cronies husband. What was the horse? Pegasus? I mean, it's really, it's crazy. I mean, you know, the amount of waste there, I mean, the Washington Examiner just had this story about how they bought all of these like cool DHS and ICE branded SUVs. But the issue is, as we've learned in Minneapolis, these guys can't drive around and branded SUVs. Like, they have to be unmarked.

And so basically they ordered like millions of dollars worth of these cars. And now they're saying, well, these are totally useless. We've been drawing a lot of equivalences to like, you know, the sick man of Europe and of the Ottoman Empire era of Woke 1. and Trump 2 Isn't it so appropriate that the version of the Eternals for Trump 2 and anti-woke 1

is the Christie DHS commercial Like that's her Kermel Nanjani like Shortening his life by 50% And spending like They probably like went over a budget By the same ratio It's Kingo

It's Sprite, Atso All my favorite guys Well they both kind of went through like a dramatic, you know, image transformation, body transformation expecting this big franchise. You know, I'm going to be in the public eye for a long time now. Yeah, it says, Ms. Noam said

Mr. Trump had tasked her with getting the message out to the country. Asked if Mr. Trump had signed off on the campaign before the ads aired, Ms. Noam responded, we had that conversation. Yes. Before I was put in a position and sworn in and confirmed. and since then as well. And it's the idea like getting the message out. Like I mean like what did you think that meant? Your head of DHS getting it.

The message of like Christy Dome's existence. Yeah. Yeah. The message of you that you can ride a horse and like through some like sort of splendid vista in South Dakota. But like you would think getting the message out as head of DHS would be like, I don't know, hosting a press conference. Like why the need for this ad? Like it's just advertising that DHS exists and she's in charge of it. Yeah.

I mean, I think one of the ad. some of the ads were supposed to be sort of saying like, hey, you better self-deport, like, we're coming for you, you know, on my horse. You know, I mean, the spending, I mean, you know, she, we didn't talk about the, they bought the jet for her and Corey Lewandowski to travel on. Yeah, they had the private bedroom.

They had a bedroom, private bedroom and the private jet. Yeah, I mean, it's really subtle. Why didn't they just use the jet that, uh, Qatar gave Donald Trump? I mean, I thought, well, what happened to Doge? What happened to the Department of Doge? Where are they at? Imagine what she told the husband. Like, why is there a fucking bedroom on the jet that's for you and Corey Lewandowski?

He has narcolepsy. Oh, my God. Look, Cory Lewandowski, Christy Noem's husband. Christy Noem, for that matter. Check out the Interpol song, Mind Over Time. It's about this exact situation. I think it will get you all through this. And it wasn't just the jet or the $200 million campaign ad either because like when she was testifying recently right before her ouster, there was this other like another $143 million government contract that was given to a company that did not exist eight days before the contract was granted to them and does not have an address associated with the company.

and the only person on the legal documents is someone who worked for Christyneome and she was governor of South Dakota. Yeah, I mean, it's crazy. And, you know, it's crazy too with this. You have to remember when Christenome took over DHS, she made a rule that every expenditure over $100,000 had to be personally approved by her

for Doge-related reasons. So you have like the Texas flood and they couldn't get people out there for repair operations. Yeah, because they were pinching pennies about like how many sandbags they could fucking buy. Exactly. And then they're just like blowing all this money on all these crazy ad campaigns. I mean, like, clearly though, Christyneome thought, I think this was like a campaign ad for her in 28, right? Like I think this is very clearly like her spending $200 million to establish a national

brand for herself, you know, in anticipation of a presidential run. Because, you know, I mean, like, why else would any politician be filmed on horseback if not to run for president? Yeah, totally. I mean, look, I mean, I feel like a lot of the cabinet, you know, members are getting ready. I mean, RFK Jr. certainly. You know, and so,

you know, and he's, he wants, he's going to run for president again. RFK. Jr.? I think so. Oh my God.

Oh my God. More of that. The Daily Mail just had a story about his sexual magnetism. So, you know, it's sort of like, I mean, you know,

you can scoff at that, but like, I mean, the proof is in the pudding. I mean, he's like, he's ruined a lot of lives. because of that magnetism.

Listen, Axis of resistance. We love your work. We hope you love arts. The head of America, our most important guy. His name is Robert F. Kennedy Jr. But like, you know,

R.N.K. Jr., like, I mean, I always say it's like, Rubio and J.D. Vance have got to be like, those two have got to be the front runners at this point, right? Yeah, I would say so. I mean, but you know what? the same time. I feel like there's, you know, there's a lot of talk, you know, advanced does he have

what it takes? Famously, Clivocular said Newsom would mug him. So, you know, there's all kinds of real concerns he's facing. I guess finally, since you brought him up, like, how are, how are things going in the Mog Wars? You know, you know, it's interesting. I feel like we haven't heard from old clavicular in a little bit. I mean, he's definitely kind of bobbing around out there. He had his big, you know, trip to New York a few weeks ago where he hung out with the dime square people and, like, the Peter Thielites. And, you know, I watched a bit of that live stream. It was pretty grim.

You know, it was like a lot of kind of like rich guys coming up and being like, hey, clavicular, like, come hang out with us. And he was just like, he was just like, we got to get away from these foids. Who is the guy who had his wig taken off on the live stream? Androgenic. Androgenic, yes. But actually, like, that androgenic guy, like, I mean, some of these mob guys, they'll like flip out on people.

It's crazy. I mean, clavicular is definitely the most level-headed of that. And I mean, he ran a guy over in a cyber truck. But like, you know, like, there have been points where like some girl will just like kind of look at him at the club and be like, you suck to like androgenic. And he'll be like, yo, like just screaming. That, that endogenic, the thing with his hack and extent, that seemed like a bit to me. I don't know. I mean, to me, a lot of that stuff, it just seems like it's like even goofier pro wrestling.

It seems like they're in on it. Yeah. If you know, I mean, Will, you would know better than I would. but that seems to be my read of it as a... I think at this point, I mean... As an internet veteran. We're getting away from the real honest mauging. And I think it's getting into this.

But you're totally right. I mean, definitely like the second wig snatch was fake. You know, the, like back, we got to go back to when clavicular was a bouncer. And I, in Cape Cod, taking like huge amounts of muscle relaxants just to talk to a girl. I mean, that's like the real looks maxing culture. Oh my. Wait, he was about, oh my God, he's like my warrior or I'm his. I don't know.

It's just a similar trajectory. He and I. I don't know. Like, whenever I see this, it's like, it's updates from like one of the, one of the streaming platforms. Like, I think it's kick. And whenever I just see like, it's these constant updates that come across my Twitter stream. And they're like, they're like dispatches from like some sort of Looney Tunes version of the Wild West where it's just like the mob power ranking. So they're like, hey, as you.

leader has just been demogged by like, you know, a gorilla Chad. I mean, compared to the other, do you know what the other stuff on kick is? The other stuff on kick is like, there's this like 62 year old former pimp named Mr. Baste who just exploits an autistic guy and like attempts to assault girls on camera.

Like there are guys who are just like committing statutory like on stream. Like kick is one of, Kick is like a live streaming service that would be on SVU in 2011. Like, it is something that Don Craken would contend with. It is one of the darkest fucking places on the internet. It would really test my free speech absolutism if I were president. I would immediately strike it down. But like, what those guys are doing is so much more innocent and okay compared to what everyone else is fucking doing.

which like if it is not just like rampant sex crimes it's trying to encourage 11 year olds to steal their parents credit cards and gamble yeah when you said sitting your face with a hammer I was like this is cool he was a pretty well-known guy in the early 2010s he claims to have invented the girlfriend experience wait a second wait a second

I thought girlfriends invented that I did too but yeah no his name is God I hate saying this Mr. Baste I don't know like whenever I see it it just seems to be like sort of

a live sort of participatory nationwide harmony Korean film of which we're all involved in and that at any moment you can find yourself a part of like Spring Breakers part two featuring ASU frat leader

Andrew Jepard and like just a cast of a cast of wonderful wonderful freaks and grotesques. Maybe it's because when I was their age, when I was, you know, when I was like a 22 year old bouncer, I would do things like, I hope he's listening. My friend Dirty Mike, Dirty Mike, I hope you're doing well. When we were helping him train for his first amateur boxing match, we found this weird Chinese peptide from a research chemical. website, you could, that was still on the surface web, because this is like 2012, 2013,

and you would take it via oral syringe, and it would help you cut weight while retaining muscle. The side effect was that it made you nearly blind during the night, which was, in retrospect, my job of working at a bar until 3 a.m. was not good for that, but it really, my com gutters were Rees are sharp So I think I just like instinctively Defend these guys Because I know where they're coming from Yeah

And at least compared to like the other guys on kick I just I think like hitting yourself A hammer fucking shooting yourself up with all these chemicals Listen I don't recommend people do it But when you're 22 That like you are very resilient I don't suggest that you make yourself infertile

I didn't do that But like hey shit it's been a lot of other stuff I see on that website I don't know I I wouldn't say I support all these guys decisions but I am a it could be worse is my point of view all the kids from gumbo have grown up and are on research chemicals and they look fantastic they're mugging everyone they've gotten out of the bathtub and they're on the streets

mog framing each other I was an early mauger I was mogging in the age of maroon pants in American apparel. I remember, I didn't know if the research chemical was working until one time at work, these two girls got into an argument and they were explaining what was going on to another bouncer. And they said, yeah, and then this, and they looked at me and went, this skinny white boy came over and I went, me? Are you talking about me? Totally forgot what was going on.

But, yeah, no, I mean, it's young men will always do it. Young men will always get chemicals that should not be ingested for their cum gutters. Are you referring to me, man? Me, madam, are you referring to me? Let's leave it there for today. Will Somer, I want to thank you for joining us today. Please check out Will's work over at the bulwark. And we will include links in the episode description.

Thanks again, Will. Thanks for having me on. Well, I'll catch you up at the next Council of the Will's meeting. Of course. All right, everybody. Until next time. Bye-bye. Bye.