Chapo Trap House - 1077 - doormat mother! feat. Alex Nichols (10/5/26)

Episode Date: October 6, 2026

Chapo All-Star Alex Nichols is back for a quick news roundup. We eulogize Dennis Hastert, speculate on another Epstein associate’s suicide, and explore Kyrsten Sinema’s ex-boyfriend’s recent house-destroying rampage. We then take a deep dive into a new conservative moral panic: parents being cut off by their adult children. What’s behind the widespread media coverage of this, from The Free Press to the Wall Street Journal? And who is “Doormat Mom,” one of the movement’s viral stars? All shall be revealed. Follow Alex on Twitter: x.com/@Lowenaffchen Check out his show Fortune Kit: https://www.patreon.com/fortunekit And watch ChapoFYM: https://www.twitch.tv/chapotraphouse Join us on Fri, Oct 16 at the ErF Gallery for a live screening of Chunks followed by a live talkback featuring Will, Hesse & Podcast About List, tickets here: https://www.erf.nyc/events/chapo-trap-house-screening

Hello, everybody. It's Monday, October 5th. This is your job, but for today. Joining Felix and I, once again, been too long. Alex, back in the show. Alex, how's it going? What's up? Great to have you back. Just a few things to start us off here today.

I woke up today. Dennis Hasterd, dead. No. Fuck. Did he Haster? Dude, fuck 2026. I, Felix, I remember I made a joke on the last episode we recorded about Dennis Hastert, but I got to admit, I fully thought he was already dead.

So, nice to have confirmation that he finally is. If that was the case, why was he scheduled for a Thursday episode? I, well, you know, you drop this on me now. I didn't approve that guest, Felix. Yeah, no. I mean, yeah, you didn't react to it yet. I didn't give the thumbs up. in the chat.

But no, I just want to highlight the way CBS News, the headline that they were... Oh, yeah, I saw this. This is great. CBS News, former Speaker of the House, Dennis Hastert, who represented Illinois for two decades in Congress, and was later jailed for violating banking laws, has died. And I think that's a great piece of headline writing because it's just like... It's not technically wrong. Yeah, no, it's like, it's technically true.

Yeah, it's like, yeah, if like Jimmy, like after, you know, Jimmy Seville's death, if Utrey had happened before that, they were like, guy who was rude to Louis Thoreau passes away. Cigara and running enthusiast, Jimmy Saville, passes away. Yeah. But yeah, like, jailed for violating banking laws. And yes, of course, the banking laws he violated were to cover up payoffs to all of the wrestlers that he molested as a. prolific pedophile in Illinois. But, like, what's so odd about this?

Like, just thinking back of the life and career of Dennis Astorite, is it an odd that Democrats don't talk more about this? And, like, I know it's always, like, an easy argument to make, but, like, if one of the longest-serving Democratic speakers of the House were, like, a serial child molester, like, do you think that would come up more often? Like, I don't know, like, certainly in light of the Epstein stuff or, you know, there's just so many. Midterm elections.

What? He's kind of mid, isn't he? As like a Republican pedophile, there are way more interesting ones. There are richer ones, more prolific ones. He's just, I don't know,

he's been out-competed. That's sort of one of the more most interesting things about Hastert's scandal to me, besides the obvious, is, so you mentioned that he broke the mortgage laws. And that's how people found out about the pedophilia case.

He was Speaker of the House like during, Tom Delay's run, but he was like when Uncle Jr. is like nominally the boss of the family. Like Tom Delay and Mitch McDonnell were making millions. And he was making, like he was probably getting something, but not enough to where he, you know, could avoid committing this incredibly obvious federal crime

that uncovered his sexual abuse that he committed from like 40 or 50 years before. Like if Mike Johnson had to do this, Johnson had to like pay his son to be like, tell people that we don't, like, just erase those last five jackoff reports that I gave you that we did with each other. He would like, he would probably already have the money. But Dennis Haster, um, no, yeah, he just, um, he was like one of those street bosses in the mafia who goes to prison. But like,

isn't having someone like that be like, like, uh, someone who is a child molester? Like, it does, Doesn't it, wouldn't it suit the purposes of, like, Tom DeLay and Mitch McConnell to have that guy be, like, the figurehead? I mean, like, the fact that, like, it doesn't suit the purpose of what people respect you. But the fact that they probably know, uh, means that he'll just be like, I don't know, like, like, the perfect figurehead, right? I mean, if I was starting a business, I would not pick, like, a morbidly obese pedophile who committed crimes with an ice cream baron to cover up his molestation. Well, I wouldn't make him, like, the mask. got. I mean, are you saying, like, that they, like, had something on him?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I mean. I mean, I don't think, like, at least for Dennis Hastert's, at least just for, like, regular house GOP corruption, I don't think you need to have, like, that on someone. You just need to, like, commit a crime with someone. Right. And, like, Dennis Hastert seems like he, I mean, he committed white collar crimes and did pedophilia. So they probably could have gotten him in on, like, that, uh, what was that island that delay did all that business with, uh, Saipan? They could have gotten him in on that. Yeah. Who is the, who is the ice cream baron he committed crimes with? I mean, this is, he didn't really commit crimes with Jim Oberweiss, but Jim

Oberweiss was a big donor to him. It's just, it's fun to say that he was, uh, financially beholden to an ice cream baron because he's, he's so fat, but, uh, that sounds kind of fun. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's sort of, it's like the least evil part of has to his whole thing. And Jim Overwit says a lot of things, but he's like, he does not touch on children. And it would be easy to. Yeah, I was going to say, kids love ice cream. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. He should get an award for not doing that for being a Republican who owns an ice cream factory. He hasn't done that. Yeah, and he didn't succumb to peer pressure from his friend Denny Haskell. He was probably, yeah, people were probably bullying him. He never did it.

Dude, you're selling this to adults. You have all this ice cream. You have all the ice cream in the world. What are you a fucking loser? Well, this is a, like, you know, a very easy digression to the next thing I wanted to bring you up. Speaking of, you know, Republican pedophiles. This is just, I'm just going to read from this article here. The man who alerted Congress to Commerce Secretary Howard Lucknick's size to child sex predator Jeffrey Epstein has died.

Simon Andres, a British former Wall Street banker who once, worked under Lutnik, died by suicide at 57, the banker reports. Andres, who was living in Cornwall, England as of July, exposed the extent of Lutnik's relationship with Epstein earlier this year when he shared a 2018 email chain with House Oversight Committee lawmakers in which Lutnik and Epstein discussed AdFIN, a digital advertising company they had both invested in. Andres had found the email chain by searching the Justice Department's release of millions of Epstein files for HWL, Lutnik's initials, knowing him from U.S.

years at BGC Partners, a financial brokerage firm where Lutnik was CEO that executives preferred to use initials in emails, he told the BBC in July. The email chain and other material in the Epstein files contradicted Lutnik's assertions about his relationship with Epstein. The Commerce Secretary told a New York post podcast last year that he first met Epstein in 2005 after he and his wife moved next door to him, but he soon cut off contact after being creeped out by Epstein's massage room during a tour of his Manhattan townhome. But the email chain shows letnik and epsine remain friendly and friendly contact until at least 2018 a decade after epsine pleaded guilty to soliciting prostitution from a minor in 2008 and a

year before he died in jail while awaiting trial on federal sex trafficking charges so yet another epstein whistleblower kills themselves uh uh Howard ludnick um what a guy i mean i you know like uh i not much more to say about this like i mean like if this were just one Epstein whistleblower killing themselves, you'd be like, I don't know, maybe he was depressed or whatever, but like, it does seem to be a bit of a pattern here. Yeah, yeah, like the butler,

the entire thing with the butler is fucking insane. The butler, who is the source of the black book, the reason that people have all those scans of the black book. He originally got sentenced to significantly more time than Epstein did with the original sweetheart deal.

And I think he died shortly after he served his prison term. Mental health, so important. Don't be afraid to reach out and talk to someone. Just one more thing here. It says, Letnik told the Senate Appropriations Committee in February that he and his family even traveled to Epstein's Notorious Island in 2012 saying, I don't recall why we did it.

I don't know, probably they wanted to go scuba diving or jet skiing, fun activities to do on an island. But like, Letnik is such an interesting character. Remember earlier this year when Trump told that story about how on the morning of 9-11 was the only day Lutnik didn't get to the office early because he chose to drop his kids off at school? Yeah. And Lutnik seemed very comfortable with him telling that story. Oh, man, I love what you tell this one in a room full of people on national TV. Like the way Trump was telling the story was extraordinary because he kept talking about like how like this was the only day. Like what are the odds?

How lucky he never takes his kid to school. And then for some reason, on this day, it was the one he decided to drop his kids off at school before going into Cantra Fitzgerald. It's like Fetterman behavior. When he has something to do, suddenly he really, really wants to take care of his kids. He's got to meet up with a friend.

But then every other time, he's just gone. He's drunk driving. We know the next terrorist attack will be on whatever Federman son's birthday is. Yeah, if he picks his kid up from soccer practice, you got to watch the news. Yeah, like 20 years in the future, people are going to be like,

did you know that like no birthday boys died on November 3rd? Don't go to school tomorrow. John Federman is picking up and dropping off his son. Yeah, so look up when John Federman's children's birthdays are circle the circle your calendar future dates never to forget and always to remember but like these guys they're they're really uh these guys are in hog heaven right now i mean like just seems like uh everything is permitted uh nothing is true everything is permitted Howard Ludnik had a post this year um I've never seen him talk about it before but to be fair I wasn't like I didn't I wasn't part

of like the noty gang for Howard Lucknick until recently. Like he might he may do this every year. I don't know. But he, this is the first time I've seen him like talk about his brother who died on 9-11. And it just, I don't want to extrapolate a lot from like a picture, but it just seemed like these are,

this is a case of like two brothers who never talk to each other. And like maybe Lutnik, uh, this wasn't his primary reason for being involved in 9-11. But he's like, I could get rid of him too. Two birds with one stone. Yeah, it's plausible deniability.

Well, because, yeah, like, if you, if you miss out, if you spend that morning picking up your kids, like, which you've previously never done before, but your brother also dies in the Twin Towers. You're like, well, shit. I was lucky to survive. Like, shit, I lost my brother.

And that's, like, this sounds like I'm being callous, but it, you really have to understand, like, the baby boomer generation. they love having brothers that are like two years apart from them in age and they don't talk to each other for 17 years. Nothing happened. They're just like, you know, they just have corals over like contesting their mom's property tax for the day of here in the row. Well, we'll be talking about this phenomenon a little later in the show. But just a few other quick items here.

I just want to say congratulations to cash and Alexis. an engagement, wedding bells on the horizon for Cash and his girlfriend from Canada, or sorry, Switzerland. Yeah, I was really like, I don't know. I just seen this really depressed me because you should have to seek out this kind of information, right? Like, you shouldn't, you shouldn't like open whatever app and you immediately know that Cash Patel and his girlfriend got married.

It just, it reminds you that these people won the presidency so they could be celebrities. Yeah. Like every day it feels like you're being forced to attend a bar mitzvah where the kid wraps as part of his speech. And you can't like you get arrested if you leave. That's what every day is like. You know, I mean like, yeah, like I've, I've never thought about a previous FBI

director's engagements before because, you know, usually, I mean, I don't know, I feel like FBI director is like, it's a, it's not a job for single people, you know. Right. Right. It's a family company. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And this is something the Trump guys love. They love being like 52 and they're like, I'm finally settling down. It's time to finally marry my 29-year-old girlfriend and create a bunch of mutant kids with my 79-year-old cum. So finally making an honest woman out of her. But like, you know, like, and like this is all part and personal of like every time I do hear and say. see Cash Patel. It's like not because, I don't know, like they've, you know, broke up an interstate, you know,

interstate wire fraud or some sort of, you know, real estate scams or whatever the FBI usually does. It's like, it's, yeah, it is his dating life. It's like, Gash Patel takes girlfriend to concert. Casmetel ends girlfriend's concert. Gaspatel goes water skiing while, you know, on some junket in Europe with girlfriend. Yeah, and it's so boring, too. I wish it was an actual.

celebrity. Yeah, right. Would that be nice? It was an actual celebrity. If it was like Sidney Sweeney or something. Stella left you. It's trashy. It's already unprofessional and stupid.

But then it's just, it's like, oh, this country singer, and then you've never heard of her. No one's ever heard of her. You would hope it's an actual country singer. Right. It's like a woman who's been, like, he's probably paid like $900,000 to unsuccessfully become a country singer over the past like 10 years. Like failed industry plant.

It just wouldn't take. We watered it and watered it. And that's really easy to do right now is the thing. Yeah, exactly. Country industry plants. That's so easy. And she can't do it. That's probably what Howard Ludnik's daughter is going to be.

Is he a musician? Dude, I don't know. I don't even know if he has a daughter. But like if he has a daughter and she just got into med school. Yeah. She's going to drop out. Her name is like Esther Rachel Lutnik.

And she's like, She's going to sing about, like, putting a kiddie pool in the back of a pickup truck. Like, she's ever done that. And Howard Lucknick's going to spend, like, enough of his 9-11 bucks. And, like, we're going to have to hear it. Like, you're going to be at Blink Fitness and you're going to have to listen to Astor-Lutnik sing about, like, being a shit-kicker. But somehow this, this, Alex Wilkins, like, her dad was like a some type of rich diplomat or something. That's why she went to school in Switzerland.

Yeah, boarding school. And she still couldn't do it. Yeah. I bring it up, like, were you guys aware of that thing the other week about like, how can you not know about the Stella? No, is it not Stella Lefty? What's the song, Choosing Texas? Ella Langley, yeah.

Ella Langley's Choosing Texas. Yeah. Are you, Felix, Alex, are you familiar with that song? Yeah, I've heard it. I had to hear it on purpose at first, but I've heard it on the radio a couple times since then. And it's okay. It is funny to see those articles trying to make it into a culture war issue. Because it really is that the monoculture doesn't really exist anymore.

streaming numbers have kind of changed the charts because people can it's easier to game it now it's like payola you can have people with like an array of cell phones and they're just refreshing them all day repeating those songs and also people don't really listen to the radio i don't know it's just a different culture and they're trying to turn it into a thing like oh oh you listen to everything but rap and country aren't you cool you don't listen to pop country on the radio aren't you so cool Well, yeah. Yeah, it sucks. I don't listen to it. I don't have to. What are you going to make me? You're going to make me listen to it? No, I'm going to change it to a different station because it sucks. And I don't care if you think I'm a hipster. Suck my dick. Yeah. Is this the thing that people are trying, I know the rapid country thing. But like, are people really trying to like make fun of people for not listening to Dirk's Bentley?

Yeah. Well, people have to get every takeout. Yeah. Yeah. The algorithm kind of it incentivizes that for people to find out. find every annoying possible opinion you could have. Like, are you racist against working class whites for not listening to country? Even if it's like a billionaire's daughter. And it's made in Nashville and everyone owns like a Ferrari who produced

it. This is like a Tyler Austin Michael article. Yeah. He's probably written this article. Well, one last thing I want I see that could very well be its own top 40 country song. This is a story I didn't get to you last week, but the saga of Kristen

Sinema and her boyfriend, pretty good. This could be a sort of gender reversed, you know, Carrie Underwood song here. It says here, Kristen Sinema's ex-boyfriend and former bodyguard said he threw her paintings into her swimming pool in part because he felt disillusioned

by her relationship with a major U.S. artificial intelligence software developer as the war in Gaza drags on. Matthew Amel had a mental breakdown the night that he trashed the former lawmakers, Cave Creek home, he told the Arizona Republic in an exclusive interview. I was pissed at the system and I took it out on her art, Amel said.

The American people have no idea how expletive up our government is. And like, what are politicians spend their time doing? In telephone conversations of the Republic Amel, 39, spoke at length about his romantic relationship with cinema, 50, a former U.S. senator from Arizona and described the August 30th incident in which he is accused of causing more than $200,000 in property damage. image to her cave creek house. The rampage included the destruction of paintings, which he tossed in her swimming pool, pricey bottles of alcohol, which are broken, and an expensive mirror, which was smashed.

Oh, Beau, buddy. That's bad luck right there. Have we seen these paintings? That is the question I need to know. Because I'm looking it up, and I don't see a single picture of one of these paintings. It's just, it's different stock photos of her in articles about the paintings. the same article we're reading now, the same news story. And it says it's $200,000 in damage,

22 pieces of art and then some bottles of alcohol. So either that's completely made up and she's valuing these paintings no one's ever seen. Sounds like insurance fraud. There's no market for it as like $20,000 a piece or she somehow has a bottle of wine that's like $150,000. Alex, that was the exact question I had reading this article I was trying to envision what $200,000 worth of Kristen Cinema's personal art collection looks like

and then thrown into a swimming pool. Also, what if it's AI? Because apparently she's dating an AI guy. So what if she's just printing out pictures from Grock or chat GPT? That would be great. That's incredibly likely. That is a strong possible. And she's trying to do insurance fraud.

I think that's pretty likely. Also, talking about art, if you took a nicely. set photograph of those paintings in that swimming pool, maybe at sunset, that would be amazing. Why can't we see that? Well, I, when I was trying to visualize or sort of, I don't know, interpret like what could Kristen Cinema's art collection be like. The one thing that sort of gelled in my mind here is like, okay, Cave Creek, Arizona, Southwest.

I'm envisioning a lot of like sort of like the Coco Pelly figures. Yeah, it's like a Coco Pelly with purple hair. Yeah, I've seen a lot of that. The rampage, including the destruction of paintings in which he tossed in her swimming pool, I see Bottas, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Emil is also the man at the center of a home wrecker lawsuit brought against cinema by his ex-wife, and he said he feels the media has wrongly painted him as an adulterer and a bad person. A former Green Beret, Amel struggles with brain injuries from his time in the military. His traumatic war experiences are still raw in his mind. I'm not a bad guy, Amel said. I'm not crazy.

I'm just really effing smart and I've seen behind the curtains. Oh, yeah, clearly. What I'll say here is like, recruit this guy to run for a primary Democratic candidate right now. Get him, get him. We did. Oh, yeah. This guy, this guy, he fits the bill. Okay, brain injured, green beret vet.

currently being sued for home wrecking by sleeping with a senator, 10 years his senior, and then freaks out, you know, because her current boyfriend is using AI to kill people in Gaza, and then he goes on a Coco Pelly rampage in her house. I just, we really, there is like a tyranny that these people have imposed. You know, like this, people's first instinct with this type of guy is like, oh, well, you know, his heart is in the right place. He said, he's like, I'm really fucking smart. Are you sure?

Because he works for Kristen Cinema for God knows how long. He fucks her. And then he's like, wait, she likes Israel? What? I'm so smart that I figured this out. There are so many of these people. It's like I wish PTSD was as fatal, as people said. It just seems like it makes you stick around forever and tell people as smart you are.

Like I said, recruit this guy right now. There's got to be a Democratic primary. He can hop in there. I wonder if this guy has a dog he needs to have or else he fucking scares his kids. I'm really smart, except I need a dog to like lick me or else I kill my entire family

and Kristen Sinema. He keeps throwing the dog in the pool, but it gets back out. I thinks we're playing. I'm having a fucking meltdown. I'm pissed. We're not playing. Throwing my girlfriend's shit out the window and the dog keeps going and fetching it and bringing it back.

He's like he has a war dog. He has a dog that was like a veteran with him, like a combat dog. Like the Brad Pitt movie that's out now. And he's going and then they're both going to war against his corrupt senator and ex-girlfriend. Yeah, that I worked for for like

five years. You didn't know any of her positions. Oh my God. Just the moment this guy said, I'm not crazy, I'm really smart. It's, okay, can we put you in a candle, perhaps, for the rest of your life? Fucking idiot. Oh, man. Yeah, like he entered the Cave Creek home and proceeded to ransack her box of enrichment toys and Kong peanut butterfilled Kongs. I'm really smart.

You can see, by the way that I solved this Chris's cinema problem. She's no longer, you know, making money off the genocide. Her boyfriend's been taken care of because I got her, I got her, you know, her pictures of, God knows. I would love to see this art. Alex is right. This is why the news media is dying. We haven't seen a single one of these alleged, allegedly valuable pieces of art. But, okay, I got her printed out AI art wet.

Problem solved. This is how she gets an insurance payout. I go to jail. Everybody thinks I'm crazy. Yeah. Yeah. But I get to tell, I get to tell, like, the guardian

that I'm not crazy. Okay, another possibility I'm thinking in terms of, like, the art collection. I'm envisioning a lot of that, like, I don't, okay, how should I describe it? It's like, I would say, Miami-based art

where, like, guys, like, sealed, like, a golden desert eagle and, like, a lucite cube. And, like, it's like, I don't know, like, maybe it's, like, a holographic image, of like a gorilla smoking weed or something like that and like Scarface printed on a $100 bill

but blown up to be like 10 by 30 or something like Joker based art. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. This is kind of what Adrian Brody's art looks like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Adrian Brody inspired art. I like this stuff. I think it's pretty good.

This is what mostly they show at Art Bissell, by the way. Like I didn't know what is going to be on art. Yeah. But I thought, I thought Art Bissell was like a real thing. Not, you know, then it had like some real art, but it's all shit like this. Well, if you know, I think the good thing about that is if you throw most of it in the swimming pool, it'll just sink. And if it's sealed in Lusite, if it's sealed in Lusite, you know, your protection, your collection will be protected from angry exes.

Yeah, I just, I like all the videos of the guys making the art. It's very, it's really satisfying to me. I think those are the videos. this is a really popular like AI genre now. It'll be like a middle-aged veteran or like a sort of hapless woman who's making a cutting board

that features Aerosmith on it or like an American flag cutting board. I think they're all bait. They're trained, they train the AI with like these Cuban guys who are making, you know, a $1,000 million dollar bill with a pit bull at the center of it.

Yeah. All right. Well, moving on to the the main thing I wanted to talk about today. This is sort of something I got interested in last week. And it regards the, like, the sort of, a sort of a burgeoning political issue that I've seen get picked up a lot recently.

It's a burgeoning political trend. And that trend is the trend of family estrangement. And, like, just over the last couple weeks, there have been, like, a less month or so. There's been, like, a number of headlines here. Like, Fox News. cut off by your adult child, psychology researcher reveals what parents should do next.

Going no contact, how we can counter the trend of family estrangement. That's from the epic times, the free press. I went no contact with my parents. I regret it. And then also finally in the Wall Street Journal, why are so many adults cutting off their parents?

And like I think here, this is fascinating to me because I think this is sort of a skeleton key for understanding, I don't know, like the modern, conservative American, certainly like people who watch Fox News, boomer grandparents who

are sort of blaming the culture for estranging their kids from them, but like really nothing I can say to describe this will do it as much justice as the following clip that we're going to play now. Like I saw this and I thought to myself, get ready

because this is going to be a prominent political issue in the coming years. So this is from, this is a woman's asking a question at Byron Donald's Florida, I think, governor's race. She's at a rally and then like it's sort of like Q&A from the crowd and this woman

speaks up to ask a question of Brian Donald. Spencer, can we play that clip? Hi, Mr. Donald's, it's a pleasure to talk to you. I am totally in love with your family. Thank you. Thank you so much for your values. Weird thing to say. My question is about grandparents' rights.

Yes. Do you know that Florida does not protect grandparents' rights. If a regular parent, we're not talking about divorce, we're not talk about drug abuse, we're not talking about substance abuse, we're not talking about a parent missing,

we're not talking about them never been married, we're talking about regular parents and a regular grandparent or grandparents that they argue, they don't agree, the parents can cut the grandchild out of the grandparents life. And that

has happened to me. I have not seen my grandson since August 7th of this year. And I want to know what can happen to get the fix because it's because of pettiness. Because I refuse to babysit because I had plants. And that's why I'm not seeing my goodness. What was she talking about? No substance abuse involved in this? The lease direct me to the right people.

I have doing in my district. Can I smell your breath? It's helping me to see if we could do a federal on this. So it would be nationwide. Because grandparents should be able to see their grandchildren. How could you enforce that? I love, yeah. A, how would you enforce that? I am, let me, I, you have my, you're going to look into that.

We will work with you and we'll work with the members of the legislature on this. He's so confused. Sorry that that is happening to you. I really, really am. Man, I'm sorry, man. Oh, my God, oh, my God, Byron. And have some self-respect. That was an insane question.

She didn't even really get into it for like two minutes. For four years, I was there every week except for illness. I was in love of his life. And because I was not available, and I said, please make other arrangements. She cut me out of the life, my grandson. I'm sure that's all that happened. Because I'm not the only one that's going through this. Yeah, I'm sure this is all the.

I am so sorry. Let's make sure that we get her name and number, and let's try to work with this and see what we can do. Let's try to work with this. Let's try to work with this and see what we can do. And now, okay, like, Felix, you picked up on the thing. She says, okay, like, for four years, I'm doing everything. And then, like, one time I said I couldn't babysit,

and then she caught me out of my grandpa, my grandchild's life. I don't think it's just that. But like, let's say for the sake of argument that, like, your granddaughter or child cut you out of your grandchild's life because you simply had other plans on a date that they wanted you to babysit. That sucks, but like, what can the, like, how can the state, like, I don't know, like, what's, like, how can this be enforced? Like, Alex, you ask that question because it's just like, what she's asking, I don't know if you caught this, but she said, I've been working with Randy Fine. I'm so glad that she's bothering Randy fine with this. I'm so, like, if anything is going to cut that fucking parade floats life short, it is dealing with this woman.

God bless you, fucking annoying grandma. But this is, I mean, the Republican platform, part of it now, besides just, like, you know, openly, like, we love rape and pedophilia and Israel. The other part of it is making laws about, like, two people. Yeah. That's what all, like, that's all the, like, you know, there's a trans volleyball player laws. That, that's part of it.

They, this is a slippery slope to, you know, making a federal law that says that you have to invite every kid in your class dear birthday party. Yeah. Like, this is the kind of government they want. Well, okay. How, what would this law even look like? Well, I mean, like, when you get your kids taken from you if you're like, oh, I don't know if you can, if we can, you know, bring our kid to a fucking big and rich concert to Mara Lago.

Then they kick down your door. No, no, like, this would be, like, this should be the logical implication here. She says, I, Randy Fine,

I've been talking to Randy Fine. If you listen to the clips, he says, working on a federal law to enforce grandparents' rights. So a federal law that would enforce parents, parental rights,

over your adult children. that supersede the right of your children over their children. And the thing is, like, as far as, like, the grandparent, grandchild relationship goes, that is a family bond, and I think it's an important one. But, like, as far as, like, legal rights go, like, it's the children that you're actually, like, you directly had that are the ones that, like, you have authority over and the ones that are you responsible for. And, like, when your children become adults, like, then they become,

like they are sort of, they exit the gravity of your legal responsibility and authority as parents. So like if they make a decision that like, oh, I don't want you around my grandkid, that's really an issue you have to bring up with them, not the police department. Not the, not Cash Patel's FBI. Well, yeah, if this is a federal law, like presumably like the FBI comes in. Like they say, like the army gets involved if they're not available. I, I want to like go back to what she says happened. Which any time you hear from a person like this, people like this are gifted at lying by omission. You have to really pay attention closely to what they say.

She said, I was there every time except for when I was sick. And then one time. Okay, except for when I was sick, that could mean anything. That could be like I was hung over. Yeah. You haven't been inverted. Yeah. The last time, was it like five minutes before?

She was like, oh, I have to go play canasta with my friend. Sorry. and then they had to get a last minute babysitter. And then, like, just dealing with her in general, they were like, you know what? I'm blocking your number. Fuck you. Yeah, like the daughter was probably getting surgery.

And they're like, can you watch our kids? Like, we're really worried. And she's like, oh, I could do it. And then five minutes before she sends a Facebook message. The real angry birds are going to be at the mall. And this is like a once in a lifetime opportunity to meet them. So, like, good luck. I'll bring the grandkids to that.

That would be a memorable experience. Oh, you're going to let these little fucking crotch spawn ruin your only opportunity to meet the angry birds? This is an old woman. She might not get another shot. It's true. She paid taxes for like 60 years. She deserves to meet the angry birds without the kids ruining it. I know, like, I feel like I think you get to like the heart of this.

And like the more I read about this, like the kind of like, the more perplexed, the more sort of confused but sort of angry I got because like I was going into like the Wall Street Journal article. about this, which is, you know, the headline, why are so many adults cutting off their parents? And, like, they speak to these, like, mostly women who have, like, now started social media accounts that have gotten, like, hundreds of thousands of followers, because, like, they just get on every day, and they talk about the epidemic of parental estrangement. And then, like, they talk about their kids, like, they are, like, greedy, narcissists who, like, you know, refuse to see the truth and won't take accountability and have chosen to blame everything on them. They think their problems are what the world revolves around.

Everybody on Earth cares about their specific grievances. Where did they learn that? Alex, it is a hundred percent projection here. We'll get into it. But the main account that I went down to a rabbit hole, I sort of got as an account called The Dormat Mom. Oh, yeah. No, I love, dude, one of the best bios on there.

The Dormat Bomb. And she just has like, her Instagram is just like, you go to the grid and it's just like her crone face, like, just like staring at you and being like, question for, question for kids. Like, you ever consider that maybe it's your fault? And then like, you know, like, it's just, she's talking to her followers every day. But the thing that drove me crazy about all of this is like there's never any explanation given for the, like, the inciting incident of this estrangement. And like, they only talk about it in these vague terms about like how their children have. They blame it on therapy and therapist culture and victimhood. And Alex, you're right.

It is like, it is pure projection because there's one video on the Dormat mom that I really like. It's just a very short clip. She said, there is nothing on earth more angry than a narcissist who's accused of something they know they did. Yeah. Interesting. Anybody who's making those kind of videos about their personal life, there's got to be something really wrong with them. Same thing with a breakup or anything. Like if someone breaks up with you, you have a mutual breakup and you want to make it public and get the internet mad at that person, you're a fucking psycho.

And like even if you don't know what you did, like it's there's a 100% chance that you are really difficult to be around. Well, the same thing with a family. Like if you, you can't just be chill for a few seconds. Like you can't just say like, you know what? I'm not going to start a huge argument. I'm not going to like throw food at someone at the family reunion over some petty shit. Because who cares? we're all just specks of dust on this earth.

My petty grievances that I'm going to forget about in 10 seconds when I get a notification on my phone. I don't need to make them everybody's problem. I don't need to call the news. I wonder if this is symptomatic of something. You have an argument with your daughter and you're like, so I went to Randy Vine to make a federal law about it. Yeah. And it's like it's exactly like relationship influencers.

or guys who like, all they do is talk about, like, cheaters and, like, being cheated on. And it's just sort of like, you know, one time... Yeah, how often is this happening to you? But, like, you know, if every, like, 10 times, it's like, maybe it's you. Maybe it's fucking you. You're trying to help you with your posts. They're trying to give you material. Yeah, exactly.

And, uh, no, and it's, and like, I think in every case, when they're just like, I have no idea why this happened. I think like you need to read into that. They know exactly what is the issue here because I'm sure their child has told them. They just, they just reject that like what their child is telling them is real or true. And then like a lot of Dormat mom's videos are her just being like just because you said, it's just because you feel something is true doesn't mean it's true. Memory is not a record of things that happen. It's a record of how you feel. And those feelings aren't real or like they aren't true. And it's just like, well, feelings are subjective.

Like, I mean, they're true to the person who you feel, like, who feels wronged by you. Yeah, that's how humans work. Like you're asking for a firmware update on humans. Humans shouldn't perceive things subjectively. They should just stop doing them because it makes it really difficult for me. Like these ambiguities and stuff, I think we just, we should just get rid of them. It would be so much easier. These things that have been part of every human relationship since humans were invented.

I just want to go into this Wall Street Journal article by Elizabeth Bernstein here. It says here, when Robin Brill walked into a conference for estranged parents this summer in Chicago, she was stunned by the crowd. More than 200 moms and dads filled the chairs, some of whom had traveled from as far away as Australia. Another 250 watched a live stream. Like Brill, whose 28-year-old son cut off contact three years ago, these parents were seeking one thing. Answers. We want to know what makes all these kids want to do this.

says Brill, a 60-year-old retired event planner from Atlanta. Because whatever the individual case may be, they're all saying the same thing. My mom is a narcissist. My dad is self-absorbed. It's your fault. Something is wrong. Many experts believe that estrangement

between adult children and their parents are becoming epidemic in the U.S. just like divorce in the 1970s. There's no way that's happening because more people live with their parents than ever. Why would that be happening right now? It doesn't make sense. Well, it says we're at a,

Cultural tipping points is William Doherty, a therapist and professor emeritus of family social science at the University of Minnesota. A confluence of forces is leading to certain actions and choices that were considered taboo before now become acceptable and even celebrated as they spread via social contagion. And I think this attitude here is that it's all just like sort of like therapy culture and like, you know, millennials and zoomers who like care too much about their individuality and blame everything on their parents. Which boomers invented. Yeah. That was the defining thing about boomers where they were the first generation to have that conflict with their parents in those cultural differences and go fuck around and go to Woodstock and everything and then come back and some of them became conservative. Some of them didn't. But they kind of, they kicked that off.

And then they see their kids and their grandkids just doing the same shit. And it's mediated through different technology. But it's ultimately something that they originated. Yeah, sister, the parents of adult children grew up in a culture of compulsory. kinship, families were supposed to be forever, even when there were problems. Adult children were expected to stay. This idea is now increasingly challenged by a notion RASIC calls democratized kinship, the idea that maintaining family ties depends on their quality.

Rezik's research found that people rely on accountability and growth, intentional connection, mutual respect, and emotional safety to remain in a relationship. I mean, that sounds like pretty solid advice to me, but young people live in an identity-driven culture defining themselves by their gender, race, sexuality, politics, and mental health, Coleman says. This shift over the past several decades has been driven by both social media and a larger cultural movement that emphasizes personal expression and psychological well-being. Parents have long challenged their children's identities, of course. When they do it now, however, they are often no longer viewed as people with a shared history who disagree, experts

say. They are seen as coming from an opposing tribe. That's what boomers did. Yeah, yeah. That's what the hippie thing was. That was. That was a On, like, every show that was on the Wonder Years, that was on all in the family, those kind of generational conflicts. They were writing about it back then. Like, Bob Dylan was writing about that stuff. She's Leaving Home by the Beatles. Like, they were fully aware of that stuff even 70 years ago.

So, yeah, like, Alex, like, we're describing as, like, a generation that, you know, really was the original me generation that, like, invented therapy culture and individuality and identities, as long as it was theirs. Now, you know, like, now that, like, their retirement age and they have adult children, I think what's going on here is, like, the steadfast belief underlying all of this is that your children are your property forever. And that, like, even as adults, your adult children should not be able to flout your authority or turn their back on you.

And, like, I don't think it's a necessarily a good thing. I'm very glad I have, you know, a good relationship with my, mother and like and my dad when he was alive and like family relationships cause stress for everyone like there's there's no way out of some level of anxiety or trauma about family life and relationships and most of it is worth putting up with because at the end of the day the idea is that family ultimately is who you have you know like if all else goes away like family is what we got here but the thing i can't conceive of is if like i've gotten to a place in my life where i'm like financially independent and like one or both or like some a family member just is unfucking bearable.

It just treats you like shit and just like insults you at every given. Like what is the fucking point of sending a Christmas card every year? Just be like, okay, enough of this. Like right. It's just not worth it. It's not fucking worth it. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. It's the same thing about social media and TV, I guess, that you can just change the

channel on so many things. And that's just what the technology. allows now is that if you don't like somebody, you can kind of just cut them off. Because we're not as dependent on each other directly as we used to be, where you were just in a room with people, there was no entertainment, there was nothing around. Your options were like reading the Bible, which is the one book that you have, or just shooting the shit with whoever happens to be there, or whoever's at the bar or whatever. And now people don't have to do that.

And you can say that's corrosive to human relations and it's taken the soul out of stuff, but people just have that ability. And it's not like, it's not baked into human nature or just the way things should be automatically, that we should be that dependent, that like, you just have to shoot the shit with whoever's in the room

because you got nothing else to do. Like, that was dependent on a certain period of time and a certain set of material conditions and technology. And now we don't have that. And we have to figure out something else because people just don't have those incentives. Well, it's like when you're, when you're a kid, like for better or worse, you are totally dependent on your parents.

And like, that's why parents have like a legal responsibility and authority over their kids. But like the goal of raising kids is to raise, is to get them so that they can eventually become an independent, like, autonomous adult. Like, they are, they have their own lives that you are preparing for. And that like when you get. That's what a lot of people want. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think these people want that, though.

I mean, they don't want to give their kids money of any kind. and then they're like, you know, won't sell their five-bedroom house so that their kid can, like, have a family of their own. Like, they feel they owe their kids nothing. They're holding on all to all the money. But they also think that, like, their adult kid who has achieved, like, you know, independence, like financial stability and a family of their own, that, like, that there's still the relationship of parent and child, like, in the legal sense.

Like, I mean, they'll always be your kid. But the idea is you want to get them to the point where they're, you're equal and that the relationship is one not based on total dependence, but one of like voluntary association because like it's a good relationship that enriches both people's lives. But like they still think that like they'll always be the parent and as such they can demand anything of their kid. And if their kid, their adult kid defies them by being like, I don't want you around my grandkids.

Randy Fine and the federal government needs to get involved. Also, I think it might be the grandkids a lot of the time. I think they're, they don't want to. throw the grandkids under the bus, like the parents don't want to say, yeah, he doesn't like you. He says your house is messy and it smells weird and he doesn't like you and you're weird. And he comes home really unhappy. They don't want to say that. Or rather like as like the child of a, you know, narcissistic parent that you have a bad relationship with, that you can stomach it and like you can put it up with it as long as it's you.

Because you're like, whatever. Like, you know, like they'll be dead one day. But like once you have a kid, you may not want to like, you. have them exposed that kind of ambient, I don't know, stress and negative emotion. Yeah, that can really fuck people up when they're around somebody who has some sort of untreated mental problem, but then they're not told about it. It's not explained to them. They just see it as an authority figure. This is the authority figure that you're supposed to listen to. And then they see them doing and saying insane shit and it just fucks with your brain.

Because you don't understand that there are so many people who have jobs, and positions within families and social structures who are just fucking psycho and people just tiptoe around it and they talk behind their back but when you're a kid it's like is that correct? Is that how you're supposed to act? You're supposed to just scream at the dog all day?

I think that, I think, well, I think this is like, this is at the root of like most generational warfare. We've made jokes or I've made jokes on the show about the idea of mothers and daughters being natural enemies. Obviously, that's an exaggeration. met like a mother and daughter who like just fucking cannot stand each other but like spend all their time together it's like an animal attacking a mirror yeah yeah exactly and obviously it's a case-by-case

thing and there are things that are specific to individual families and people but at the root of it in a lot of instances there is it is a generational bit of resentment that the mother often thinks that the daughter has had an easier time because of things that like the mother's generation went through. And, you know, maybe there, there is some truth to that. But that's not, that's not something you can, like, hold against somebody or should, really. With this stuff, there seems to do this unspoken thing of, like, oh, well, I, like, ate shit from my parents who were fucking crazy and, you know, made me fill barrels with molasses

every time we would come over. I, you know, exposed you to my crazy parents. Now it's my turn to be the crazy grandparent. And now, now I can't do it. Let's get Randy Fine involved. No, it's that thing is like, when your child is a minor, you're an authority figure. You have to be.

But when they're an adult, like, once again, like the goal should be that you no longer have to be an authority figure. If you no longer have to be an authority figure to your child, Like, you've been successful. You've succeeded as a parent. Because, like, as an adult, you get to be your own authority. You get to be your own authority.

But these people, like, they don't get that. They don't get that. And they're demanding state intervention to, like, backstop their, like, you know, narcissistic ownership in their adult children. Well, there's this, all the contemporary, like, maggot stuff, it's all rooted in contradictory desires. They want, like, all, they want to, like, see the libs get mad at them. all the time. They want to, like, just trigger them all the time,

but they also want to be universally acclaimed cultural figures. You kind of can't have both those things, right? Yeah, and like, those are, those two, those two are in opposition. You want, like, you, you, you think, like, young people today are annoying and, like, not,

not self-reliant. Okay, these, your children, you may not like how they're doing it, but they are asserting themselves and standing on their own two feet as adults and making a decision that, like, you know, they don't want to risk their mom, like, you know, losing their kids at a Jimmy Buffett concert. Or Jimmy Buffett's dead. I guess a L.A.

Jimmy Buffett cover band. Yeah, Jimmy Buffett cover band. You don't want to, when you see Farmville live and you told, you told your adult daughter that you were going to be staying home and watching the kids and you lost them at a live production of Farmville at the Acer Arena or something. You know, you don't, like, they don't want to risk that. Well, you can't have both. Like you can't, like you said, the fact that the parents are able to stand on their own two feet is, you know, it's an indication that something was done right, at least even indirectly or maybe not on purpose. But in this instance, it just feels like they need something to complain about. I mean, if it was the opposite, if, like, the, the children were just always dropping the kids off, they would work with.

grant, you fine to get a law made about that too? Yeah, yeah. Even though, even though, like, you know, the obvious answer would be like, can't you just tell them no, that you're not a babysitter? No, I need to cry at a fucking Byra Donald's event. Yeah, I think there's a lot of both. And probably the majority of people are in the happy medium place where... Yeah, the normal zone.

You have your own life and you're not just, like, at your kid's house all day long, bothering them or, like, texting them every five minutes, but you also do have some obligations to them, you're not just away on a cruise. Because there are people like that who just disappear. They turn 65 and they're just on vacation. Yeah. And they don't think they have obligations to anybody else. Spending the entire inheritance before they die so that their kids gets nothing. Which is a very boomer thing. Yeah, yeah. I want to read a little bit more from the, this is from an earlier Wall Street Journal article by the same author, Elizabeth Brunstein, that is about the Dormat mom, who's like a fascinating character to me. So I'm

It says here, one evening last year, Laura Wellington opened her phone, created a TikTok account called Dormat Mom, and filmed her first post from her porch in Connecticut. Were you a really good parent who did the best they could, and yet your child has decided to be an ungrateful little bastard as an adult, she says in the video?

Yeah, you sound like a great parent, lady. I'm sure you didn't scare your kids at all. We need to connect here. We need to support each other, and we need to talk about it. Welcome to the pissed off parent pushback. After years of therapists, psychology influencers, and internet chat groups, encouraging adult children to cut ties with families they deemed harmful or toxic,

estranged parents are now speaking out. But rather than beg for forgiveness and reconciliation, many deliver a defiant message. We weren't bad parents. This is the kid's fault. Now my needs come first. So if that's the case, if your needs come first right now and your kid has cut you off, just be like, fuck it. My needs come first.

So I don't have to be in your life. don't want me in your life, fine. Fuck it. I'm playing, you know, driving my golf cart around the villages or I'm just going to be in my portion, Connecticut with my fucking dog and like, you know, whatever. Yeah, why do you want to do babysitting for them for free if you hate them? You're calling them a bastard. I mean, they don't.

They don't want to do it. They want to be asked to do it and say no. Yeah, this is, I mean, you know, not to go back like a week or two in the news cycle, but this is, you can be the people who are trying to believe. up the lesbian bar over masking and be a Republican. Like, this is a personality type that a lot of Americans have. This is just this version for someone who's 65 and a Republican. They don't actually want to do the thing.

They want to be seen performing their agreement. And like, and even- I see a lot of, a lot of conservative accounts like this. I found one the other day. It was great. The entire account, the avie is just a picture of this boomer's, like, fucking ancient mummy mom. like her 175 year old mom

and the account is called like full-time caretaker and the entire bio is like taking care of my worthless almost dead mom. Every day isn't a gift but I'm grateful. And it's like I, okay, she's abusing the shit out of this mom first of all. But it's they love performing this this whole like put upon parent or child thing. Yeah, I get no credit for.

for this other than on the internet. Yeah, yeah. I just, I ask for credit and I do get it and I'm very vocal about it, but I get no credit other than that. Well, I mean, I think interesting here is, is the, like, the moniker she's given herself, Dormat mom. Because, like, being a dormat is, like, you let people walk all over you. And, like, a Dormat mom would be someone who, like, their greedy, bastard, ungrateful

adult child is, like, demanding that they do all this, like, child care labor. Or go shopping for them or just be at their beck and call. because, like, they need, like, you're on call to raise their kid now all the time. And, like, you don't feel comfortable saying, like, you know, establishing some boundaries or you feel that you're unjustly put upon. Whereas, like, this is a woman who's, like, his daughter is just like, I don't want have anything to do with you anymore. Like, you're not invited to the wedding, like, just going no contact.

Like, that's not someone who's, like, turning you into a doormat. Like, that's someone who's just, like, like, that's not someone turning you into a dormat. That's someone just turning their back on you who doesn't want you to be involved in your life one way or another. They're not asking anything of you other than just like to leave them alone. What would the non-dormat response of that situation be, like killing the daughter? Like, you kind of have to be a do-I mean, calling a doormat is ridiculous in the first place,

but you kind of have to just take that or else you're, what, like kicking in the door and being like, no, I am seeing them. So it says here, Wellington, 59, goes by Dormat Mom on TikTok and Instagram, where she has almost 140,000 followers combined. She says she broke off ties with one of her adult daughters in the summer of 2024 after learning that she wouldn't be invited to her wedding. Wellington maintains that she is a good mom and doesn't understand what went wrong, but realize that her daughter didn't want to have a relationship with her.

I got the message loud and clear, says Wellington, a retired tech entrepreneur and children's programming creator who has four other children, ages 15 to 32, aren't estranged. It shouldn't be on me to wait and see if she comes around. Once again, like, okay, she says, okay, she learned that she wouldn't be invited to the wedding. And then she says, I'm a good mother and I just don't understand what went wrong. If your daughter disinvites you to her own wedding,

I'm going to go out of limb here and say that an explanation was given. You know what I mean? Right. You're not just like, oh, like, forgot to invite you to the wedding. Oh, well, slip my mind. Or like, yeah, I just didn't feel like it. And she's like, I don't understand what, right and wrong. And I think like over and over again, it's not that they don't understand it.

They know what the issue is here, but they just reject it. And so they don't even bring it up. They're just like, I was a good mother. And another one of the Dormat Mom's videos I watched on Instagram is he says here, good parent, like of respect is the baseline for good parents. If you're a good parent, like, you know, as long as you're not on drugs or abusive or neglectful and you just did your best and you like you did your best to raise your kid, Respect is owed you. Like, that's the baseline. And, like, thanks to therapy culture now,

we think that we don't owe parents' respect. And similar to the Byron Donald's Randy Finewoman who kept talking about, I'm not talking about drug addiction or substance abuse or abuse, like, you know, abusing your kids or neglecting them. This is just, we're just normal parents here. And it's just like, yeah, I don't think in every case, like they were, like, you know, drug addicts

or abusing their kids or whatever. But there's something at play here. Like, there's some issue at play here. Right. And for someone who reads Dear Prudy as much as I do, I know what all these issues are. Like, go to any random Dear Prudy column. And, like, you will get to the issues at heart here.

That, like, you ask your, you ask your parent to look after your dog while you went on vacation and then, like, they didn't feed it and the dog died or something like that. Yeah. You know, like, they're concerned that your son was finger painting in a gay way and then tried to take him to, like, some wacky evangelical church to give them an exercise. Yeah. You know, it's all shit like that. I would love to know what the mom did to get this invited from the wedding.

I instantly started thinking about, like, do you think she tried to, like, seduce the, like, future son-in-law to test him? It was probably some really petty thing. Like, thinking about it sincerely, it was probably just some petty, dear prudy type thing, like something that normal people would have just looked past. And because these are all neurotic people and because they were all raised by her, it just blew up into something. Because they all just have the same type of personality where they're just looking for some sort of slight where they can just turn it into this whole thing and then say, oh, my God, I'm so put upon. Oh, why does this always happen to me? And then the mom's like, oh, I'm so put upon. Why does this always happen to me?

Like a bunch of different people being like, oh, no one ever puts me first. No one ever thinks about me. I mean, maybe, maybe, but I don't know. Sight on scene, I think there's a huge possibility, you're right? But sight on scene, I am just, I think if you start a thing called Dormat Mom, like, I think it's probably like more her fault. I am like more. Well, she raised them, so.

No, but I don't, I, I think it's more likely that she just did like so much over the line stuff and there was probably a straw that broke the camel's back. I think that's more likely than the kids like, equally enjoying this. Yeah, I don't think... I mean, it's... I don't know. They're both quite likely, but I just...

I just think people like that disproportionately have kids who are neurodivergent in the same type of ways. Because they spend 18 years in a house with them listening to them yell. That's true. That's true. Well, like, the closest thing I found to like an actual explanation being offered here was in the reply

to when someone posted the Wall Street Journal article and said, like, well, this is sad and terrible. Like, adults are cutting off their parents. And in the replies to this was a reply from someone named Audrey Murphy. And now, like, I don't know if my bit radar, like, it's pinging, but like, let's just, let's just see how you react to this. Audra Murphy replied to, like, the sad and terrible news about parents being estranged from their kids.

And she writes, this is terrible. My daughter and I no longer speak after I took her ex-husband's side when he left her. She claims I betrayed her, but frankly, she drove that man away. Jason and I are still close. Families used to survive disagreements. And it's like, well, you know, that's kind of awesome. Yeah. I, yeah. Because why would you like her? Why would you want a relationship with her? Wouldn't that be disloyal to him if he's your friend? Um, well, she probably wants to like rub it in and she probably has some like hairbrained plan for getting the back together. I don't know. Like, it's probably, like, things are fake that are posted.

But just going back to this, what me and Alex were just talking about previously for a second, I do think, I just want to say that there is sometimes an outside case. There's like a horseshoe theory of bad parenting where you can be, like if you were so beyond the pale, bad parent, it can actually turn back the other way in your kids. become pretty responsible just out of virtue of not wanting to be like you. Not saying this is the case with this one, but it is a possibility. We've all seen it. Yeah, people who have to be the parent of their own parents.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like the oldest daughter syndrome or whatever it is. Right. But I don't know. I think like a lot of the real, the instances where it would be totally acceptable to cut your parents off, like we're not really hearing from those because those are just alcoholics who are in like a hoarder house somewhere and they're barely even like like you can't

even understand what they're saying they're like ah yeah sorry about give me another cigarette or a fucking bitch like they're not calling senators they're not writing news articles they're not doing well-produced tic-tok like like most of the obvious cases they're just no one's gonna really argue about them it's like oh yeah like my mom stole a bunch of money from my bank account so i don't talk to her because she's she smokes crack every day and she won't stop and the ones you really have to argue about and get vague about. It's like the weird, the nuanced cases. Yeah.

I think you can be like a bad enough parent to where your kids choose not to have their grandkids around and not be, you know, quite at the smoking crack level. I mean, I've been, I've been very lucky. I had great parents. I think all these articles are sad when whether it is like for good cause or, Or, like, you just fall out with people. I think it's sad when families, like, don't get along. But I just, I am more on the side that, like, maybe not in all cases of this

estrangement with not letting your parents see your kids, their grandkids. But, like, certainly in the case of someone who's, like, starting a page that's, like, well, we're starting a movement against these fucking ungrateful piece of shit kids of ours. That speaks to large. problems for me. That speaks to maybe like, okay, maybe they're not smoking crack and like putting up cigarettes on the kid's arm. But they are inculcating them with like a set of shitty values and behaviors that they've probably been, they've probably been asked nicely about or maybe not so nicely. But there was, there was probably a warning, you know?

You know, no. And they're old people on TikTok. They're old people who want to be influencers. There has to be something wrong with you. Yeah. And like for anyone who wants to like test this theory, visit dormant mom's Instagram or TikTok and watch like any like three of her videos and like I think it will become very clear

who's in the wrong here I don't need to hear from her adult daughter okay I just need to watch her videos even if it was nothing she's kind of justified it retroactively it says here a resident of old

Saybrook Connecticut Wellington opened TikTok Instagram and Facebook and YouTube accounts launched a podcast and wrote a memoir self-published on the weekend of her daughter's wedding called Dormat Mom No More when good parents finally say enough

to their ungrateful adult kids. Like, being motivated enough to self-publish a book, time to the weekend of your daughter's wedding. Like, come on, who's the narcissist here? Dude, that's crazy. Yeah. Her message is defiant. It's not always the parent's fault.

Yes, there are abusive parents with children who are correct in cutting them off, she says, but there are also well-meaning and loving parents who are unjustly hurt. Rather than wait around for crumbs from their children, the parents should just get on with their lives. But, like, you're not getting on with your life. You're making this the focus of your life.

Yeah, I mean, what is the answer to this? You're not going to convince those people with this. This is just making it worse. Sometimes people just don't talk to each other anymore. And I don't know, like, there isn't a societal way to really fix it, other than just fixing stuff in general, like mental health care and, cost of living and everything, like the things that stress people out and make them attack each other.

Like, you can't have the state make people be friends again. You can't make, you can't make people have a relationship with someone they don't want to be around. And also, there's stuff makes people dig in their heels. That's the thing, too. When these arguments start, it makes people just, they want to not talk to their parents to spite boomers in general. It's like, it's just stoking generational warfare.

the more you talk about this stuff. So I don't think it's helping. Like there should just be more TV shows about good parent-child relationships or something. Positive examples. Your TV shows where they fight and make up. It shouldn't just be this stuff about how, like, ungrateful millennials don't care about how hard we work

and how cool we are, these stupid kids with their bullshit. Because who's going to hear that and be like, you know, I got to call my dad. Here in this boomer rant about ungrateful millennials, these little snot-nosed shitheads with their participation trophies, I really want to hang out with boomers. I like your idea of just having shows where people have arguments and make up with each other.

Like, we're at the point where these people need like Sesame Street. Yeah, yes. Just to show that that can happen? her popularity inspired other moms to speak out. Like Wellington, some say they were cut off for no reason and blame their children. Others fault their children's therapists for encouraging them to go no contact with their parents. Many offer a strong religious view.

The devil has stolen these godless kids. Nearly all offer advice. And like, you know, the religious explanation, like, that's the only one that gets close to like the unspoken. I think what is left unspoken in all of these articles in a way that really kind of frustrated me is politics. and that's why I think this is an obsession of Fox News and I think what's driving a lot of this is Maga Boomer parents who make every conversation about Donald Trump

or like just can't let an issue get put to bed and also like when it comes to like questions of identity like if your parents think gay people are evil and you're gay or your kid is like is it really necessary to keep them around you you know what I mean? Is that really an argument that can be resolved or like you just be like I accept that about you?

Yeah that's probably a bunch of it and also it's probably going in the other direction sometimes where there's a liberal parent and then their kid just converts to Christianity or something like they marry a Catholic girl and get really devout and then start supporting Trump and are they going to ask Randy Fine to fix that too? Is the federal government going to step in and say your chud kid that converted to Christianity or he became a groiper he has to talk to you he has to talk to his lesbian moms again? I don't think they would like that. Going on here it says hey, bring it in, turn the volume up, says Kendall Williams

in a November video that garnered nearly 6,000 likes. I know exactly who needs to hear this, and that would be anyone who is daft enough to think that parents are not caused trauma by their kids. Williams fit, and it's like, look, as I said, like, there's no way out of the family dynamic that doesn't leave you with some kind of trauma. Like, that's just, that's just, you have to be vulnerable.

That's the human story here. But because of, but because, I'm sorry, like, but because of the huge power imbalance that exists between parent and child, when your child, like, from infancy to, you know, like 18 or whatever, like most of the trauma is going to be done to you by your parents. And if you inflict some trauma on them later in life, it's like, that's putting a few more pebbles on your side of the scale, you know? Like, like, the parents are always going to have more responsibility.

And it's like, a lot of the ways, look, you can't help it. That's just what being a parent is. You've got to kind of accept that. But, like, the idea to just be like, Hey, a children can cause, toxic children can cause trauma to their parents too. It's like, you know. Who's responsible for that?

Who's supposed to stop that? You're the parent. You're the person who has authority over them who tells them what values to have and how to act as a human. Like who's supposed, is it their teacher's fault? Well, yeah.

Is it more than yours? Well, they blame it on therapists or college or, yeah. Like one hour a week at therapy? Yeah. In the rest of the time they're with you? Yeah. I just get this idea of it like because like the experience of trauma is automatically like you're in the right. Like any trauma is automatically just like some malicious act that was done to you and only you so that you would specifically to make your life worse.

And not just that like trauma is a consequence of life. Yeah. And everybody sort of agrees on the thing about exaggerating trauma and like. centering yourself and everything and just keeping every grievance forever in making yourself out to be a victim in every situation. Everybody's doing it.

They just have different words for. They just have fucking gruny millennials of doing. You know? Like centering their own trauma and identity. It's all the way down. Exactly. There's only one generation and that's the boomer generation.

Just to run it out here it says, people think that when a mother speaks out against her children, she couldn't possibly be telling the truth she says. Oh my God. I'm raising the alarm about my children.

It says, it doesn't matter if it's true or not, it still sucks. You shouldn't be doing it. You shouldn't be airing that shit in public. It doesn't matter if you're in the right. That's the whole, like, that's what those people don't understand

that personality type. It doesn't matter if you're right. You're like, you're pissing everybody off, bitching about it endlessly. Exactly. And like the issue, like, you know, like what's being contested here? Like the issue of like who's traumatizing who?

That is an issue that is only relevant and like can only be solved by the people within the family unit. So fucking by making a public spectacle of all of this, you're not really trying to confront or solve any of this. You just want attention and to be told, of course you're a good mother. It's your child who's evil. Yeah. Yeah. which is ultimately hollow. Yeah.

Because that doesn't really feel good to sit there and say, yep, I have no friends and no family because I'm too smart. You're still alone. I just, I love that. The thing about like, I'm,

dude, I'm raising the alarm about my shitty kids. I would love to see the boomer, boomer version of the insider. Michael Man movie. Just about, yeah. Blowing the whistle on big childhood.

Yeah. like a career long grandparent who's like, I have to tell people about how shitty my ungrateful ass kid is. I don't care how much how many threats I get from them. And my equally awful grandkids, and I'm also for some reason begging to see. She couldn't possibly be telling the truth. But I refuse to accept toxic behavior from someone I gave birth to

that I've shown nothing but love to and that I have supported through good and bad and that I have given the tools to be a good person. Williams, who lives in suburban Atlanta, has drawn more than 200,000 followers on social media, self-published two books, and launched a coaching business for estranged parents. In videos, she criticizes therapists who encourage parents to capitulate to their children, addresses the pain of moms who are cut off from their grandchildren, critiques estranged offspring for holding their parents to an unimaginable standard of perfection,

and preaches caution to parents looking to reconcile. Heal yourself first, she says. So, like, they're just creating an industry of therapy for, like, justifying cutting off your kids. You know what I mean? Right, right. This is like, oh, like all these horrible therapists turn my kids against me. So like I'm going into like a, I'm self-publishing self-help books and fucking

Zoom counseling sessions for another army of, uh, you know, like angry parents. Isn't it weird how 100% of these people's kids are in therapy? They all have a therapist. And once again, it's like, look, like, like I said, everyone's all, like family is always going to, be a source of stress, even in good families, even with good relationships. And I think like, and your right, Felix, like, it's not encouraging that, like, when, like, generations can't talk to each other or, like, that, that kind of family generational link breaks down.

But I have a hard time believing that, like, if you truly were a good parent who, like, did their best, love their kids, and, like, you know, dealt with all of the messy emotional turmoil and conflict that comes from, you know, being in a family, raising kids, being a parent, and that you got through it, you know, with the scars that everyone accumulates as a result of, you know, this process, I really have a hard time believing that, like, most normal people would estrange themselves from their parents

because they didn't meet some imperfect, you know, some impossible standard of perfect parenthood, right? Like, it has to be something, right? Like, if you truly did love your kids and did your best, conflicts can be managed, you know? Like, you can have, even if you had a difficult relationship with your parents growing up

it is like more than possible to have a normal, healthy, rewarding relationship with them in adulthood. It's easier because you can leave. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You can say, oh, my stomach hurts. Bye.

Like, and I just think like this has to be evidence of the fact that like they are genuinely cruel and stupid people who like, who in fact don't who like, who do not. Who do not.

love their kids and have never loved their kids. And in fact, are incapable of loving anyone who isn't like a perfect reflection of their virtue and rightness as a human being. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure there are examples where the parents are in the right, but we're not going to hear about them. Well, I'm saying, I would like to hear one example.

They're not, they're not putting that on the news. They're not putting that on the kids. I would like any of these parents to just like break down the argument that led to this estrangement. break down the incident, like just sort of like put like, you know, like lay it out there, even from their perspective, from like from their side of the story. But none of them ever do that. And like I said, like you're absolutely right. I think there could be definitely be like conceivably cases where the kid is totally in the wrong. But like you need to have, you know, like a case needs to be made. And these people are just saying they're like, they just, they're like, oh, something happened and now my kid won't talk to me and I'm totally in the right. I mean, yeah, like, I have seen instances like that where, like, the kids are just awful. I mean, I think we all kind of have to varying degrees, right?

Yeah. Everyone's gone to that kid's house where they're just, like, bullying their parents. Yeah, they call their mom a bitch in front of you. This is, I'm sorry, this is a white kid thing. Yeah, it's a really specific. Yeah, it's only a white kid thing. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I, all, dude, it's not that, like, it's normal to get into argument to. parents. I would see stuff like that. I would just feel like, Jesus Christ. It's, it is, it is a normal cultural practice for white children to beat their parents. Yeah,

white children, white children love, like, fucking hitting their moms with folding chairs and shit. That's white sons. White daughters love poisoning their moms and being poisoned by their mom. Like, they just,

it's like Kings Landing being the pants of the dragons over there. And spare the rob spoiled a parent. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They need the bell. Mom, go out and get me a switch. White kids don't have cousins and they're always pushing their mother down flights of stairs.

Yeah. That was crazy that white people don't have cousins thing? That's not. Like, I really don't agree with that. It's a different subject. I have cousins, but they didn't live around me. Yeah, same with me. Yeah.

Yeah. I do kind of wish I had that. I wish I had like cousins at my school. because there was sort of like a nepotism that would happen. And it wasn't, it wasn't anybody's fault. It wasn't like a choice anybody had. But some people had like 18 cousins who went to the same school. And they would always be seeing each other in the hallways and like talking about what they were doing.

Yeah. It's like, man, like, you need some delineation between your worlds. Yeah, I'm sure there's a downside to it too. But it's like, man, like, I just, I don't have like all these automatic friends in school. Then it's not my fault. I don't want, I don't want, like, my cousin to be in school with me, and I want him to know that I, like, wore a Sean John hat one day when I was 15 and, like, my uncle knows about it now. That's like, I want that, like, cut off from the rest of the world. That's just, like, my own shame at school and the people who went there.

But, I mean, like, if you've ever seen those, you know, children who actually are awful to their parents, adult children, especially, the, a lot of times the people, the people, a lot of times the people. parents are like actual dormats and they like cannot fucking speak up for themselves to save their lives and often do inherently feel guilty and have this feeling like they did fail as parents and they at least like owe it to their grandkids or something to to like just endure this punishment uh they don't like do this uh no they just put up yeah yeah if you're actually a door mat because the dormant doesn't fight back. That's not what a dormant is. A dormant, the first thing, the last thing a dormant will do is admit they're a dormant. Yeah. Well, I mean, best of luck to everyone going through the process of being born, having parents growing up. Yeah. This doesn't

happen to most people. Yeah. Yeah. It's not that big of a phenomenon. Like, I don't really know that many people who cut off their parents, or at least they talk about it. I'm wishing good. luck to this crazy woman just spiking Randy finds blood pressure. You know she's FaceTiming him like five times a day. You know the fucking cholesterol working his way through his arteries. Looks like the fucking Holland Tunnel. And then she's got this broad on the fucking phone wailing and crying about how she didn't want to babysit one time and now the government needs to get involved.

His arteries, like the sizes of arteries are probably like diamonds right now. he is he he he's like um like stacks and goodfellas he's just slumped over a pile of funnel cake fries this wonderful woman is gonna end his life soon i don't know i mean like i guess like if like just be i suppose it should make you great like it makes me grateful that like i i have a good relationship with my mother that i love my mother but like oh yeah yeah it just like it just but it does make me like a matter but it does make me like a matter imagine like what if my mother was like uh giving away all the family money to like some evangelical church or like Donald Trump some the Donald Trump family coffers and would not shut up

about it I would sell her to a fucking zoo. Dude, dude fucking imagine imagine imagine your mom like gives away all her money like she's in debt. You have to pay off her debt because she keeps buying Trump coin and Malaga coin and shit and she needs to get like a Trump like gold card or whatever. Yeah. And then she's like, oh, your fucking son has like a blue hair. I think we need to like, we need to like suntan his ball. So he's straight now.

I'd fucking get rid of that person too. No. I mean, again, like just, just like you. I feel. I would put her in a fucking home story. I would become the middleman. I would say I love Trump too. He's so great.

And we're going to buy these Trump coins. I'm going to help you do it. Oh, good with the computers. Oh, Alex. Oh, my God. That's a great idea. Oh, my God. That's a solution.

That is a fucking solution. Then when they die, you just settle. Yeah. It's too bad my parents are libtards. I can't do this. Yeah. And like, does this ever work the other way? Like, conservative kids who cut off their lib parents for, like, voting for Biden or?

Like, if you look at the Trump 20204 coalition, absolutely. Yeah? That's how. Oh, my God. I, yeah, no, that's. I guess I shouldn't use this show. No one's ever seen the show Sleep or Sell, but there's this character on it

whose his parents are libtards, and he becomes like a fucking ISIS guy. That's like, that's an extreme example. And it's a fictional TV show. I do remember that TV show, by the way. Yeah.

As far as like Global War and Terror Propaganda TV shows, that one was pretty good, actually. But, yeah, no, it absolutely happens. that there are parents where like their 21-year-old kid who is just like a normal, annoying fuck-up kid, like gets into Opus Day, you know? Yeah, I feel like there are probably people who want to cut off their parents in those situations, like a groiper who has a pussy hat mom, but there's probably not the economic

ability to do it. Exactly. They're still probably fine. They're reliant on them for housing and food. Because those, like the right-wing kids of ultra-liberal people. parents. I don't think they're going to get out and like do HVAC and get a truck and go mudden or like drive a concrete mixer or something. Like I don't feel like that's going to happen. I feel like they're just, they're just in the house. They're just posting on 4chan thinking about

like, man, when I'm like a general in the army, when I do all my cool stuff, when I'm like the next Himmler, when I'm like, you know, doing my son and rad stuff, I'm going to tell my mom to go fuck herself. I would love like if this was me, if I was like the Libtar parent and my kid became a Groyper. What I would do is I'd be like okay, I've been listening to your arguments. I really like I've actually become a Groyper.

I'm on their Groyper like X. I'm on Gryper X now. I made a Gryper. Follow them on Twitter with like Grapher dad and reply to all their posts. Yeah, yeah, father of whatever you have father of whatever Groyper my son. Yeah, yeah, Mom updated Republican. I made you a Malfoy. Yeah

I'm so glad that I'm so glad that I'm so glad that I'm so glad that I'm pregated a Freud and made you I'm just doing stuff like this just make it like super uncool for them I got I gotta ask because I've seen this recently What is Malfoyd? I don't know Me too. I'm not sure I don't understand it's like it's like it's like

It's like Harry Potter fan fiction yeah Okay but it's like but it's like based the nationalist I guess so guess, man. I'm not sure. I'm whatever, but they seem to think so. Once again,

if my kid was into that, I would sell them. I would keep them viciously. I'd be like, you know, liberal parent telling your griper son, like, don't you know Trump is a raped

goy slave? No, it's like, no, you've got to go with the reverse psychology. You've got to be like, I'm a griper now too,

son. Son, do you want to look at, do you want to look at base W. FAP lollies together? Do you want to have W. FAPS? Father and Fubb? You want to help me raise the Kekistan flag?

No, son. Now, son, I know your mom's a foyd, but please, try to try to try to her. No, and then follow them on social media. Oh, son. You don't do the normoids at work today, dude. No, that'll cure them of that instantly. Yeah. I would have so much fun doing that. You have no idea. I'd be making like

boutique grapers like grapers that are telling him to come down for dinner Oh my God Because I kind of like Gryper as like a frog You know

I don't like what he believes But I like as a I think he's kind of cute Gryper Yeah we got to reclaim it Yeah Like you know Driving your kid to school

And like putting on Be like let's put on the Nick Flintes When your Floyd mother isn't around Isn't this funny? Don't we love this? Oh my God Oh my God Dude, sending super chats and be like, hey, I'm, and you say his full name.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's Axe Groyper, I'm his, I'm his dad. Nick, uh, W for fathers and sons watching your show together, huh? And you just see, this is just one of the super chats that makes Plentis want to kill himself, like in all those clips. That would, I would have so much fun doing this. Like, I would, I would get a VW Beetle and spend $50,000 on a custom job to make it look like a griper. So I'm like dropping him off at school In a like actual Graper mobile

Yeah Yes Oh my God Oh this would be so fun You honk the horn And it's like ride of the Valkyries Like Darn ta da da da da da

I know it doesn't look cool But look it up Hitler invented it Yeah Yeah I would I would mix it I would do I would mix it with like Kekistan stuff

So it's super dated Like I would make it So the horn goes Re Reh It's the liberal woman saying, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my God.

You're like getting your son like a meet and greet with Sargonne of a cod. I got you clavicular's autograph. Yeah, like, we're going to the streamer convention, or you can hang out with like, I got you, we got us VIP pastors to hang out with the Tates. Look, I got us matching Cedar costumes for Halloween this year, son. Yes, you have to constantly like fuck it up by like involving people from 10 years ago that the Groy

hate. Yeah. But you get just enough right to where it's really annoying. Oh, my, oh, man. Son, I'm dating Dasha. Dude.

Oh, my God. Son, I got you a Dasha coin. Let her know. Showing your son, showing your son that you, like, made him,

uh, get married to, like, Brittany Venty in Crusader Kings 3. I made, I made a mod about our family. Oh, God. That sucks.

Oh, I'm really hope it's happening. This is awesome. Pretty great. You know, it's like, yeah, like, a parent or a relative, they're like vaguely aware that you're into like, oh, like, you're into politics or whatever, and they get you a book of like New Yorkers, best political cartoons or like a biography of Eisenhower.

And they're like, you know, you're like, all the presidents. Son, I got you the Charlie Kirk Freedom shirt. Don't we hate that those evil trunes killed them? And then you're like, fuck you, dad. The Jews killed him. And it's his fucking wife. And he's a fag anyway.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, man. You just, you overcorrect so hard that you do Halloween decorations sort of just like a, like, graphic, graphic, uh, recreations of charlie Kirk's murder, like on your front lawn. You're like, what? I thought you hated him. Oh, man. Please follow our instructions. If you are planning

on having kids, please follow our instructions and how to absolutely ruin their lives. Yeah. But pass along the generational trauma. Keep that chain unbroken throughout the years. I may not have very much good parenting advice, but I have like, I know what to do

if your kid is broken out at you. Like this is follow this and they are going to be done with that shit in no time. They're going to be at the No Kings protest like next month. Next month. Yeah. Yeah. They're going to pay, they're going to be paying to see Dean Withers do shit live after you do this.

Yeah. All right. Let's wrap it up there for today. Just a reminder. Just a plug at the end of the show that if you're in New York City or Brooklyn on the October 16th. Uh, myself, Hessa, and the Potabout List gang will be hosting a screening of chunks with a live talkback. So if you'd like to come see chunks with, uh, its creators in Brooklyn on October 16th,

please check the episode description. Tickets still available. Uh, Alex, you have anything, uh, you'd like to plug? Uh, listen to Fortune Kit. All right. Listen to WFIM. Check it out. Fortune Kit, WFIM. You know the drill. Links in the show description. Uh, once again, Alex, always a joy to, uh, have you. you on. And until next time, everybody,

bye-bye. Bye-bye. I've unwalked at my own man because he's making me stay in my room. Darned my dad. I came in his mind. He cut off my hair last night in my sleep. I could see a... Gautious dark.