Chapo Trap House - 334 - American Mids (7/22/19)

Episode Date: July 23, 2019

We're trying to beat the heat ovah here in New York City, #1 city in temperatures baby! We talk Amber's trip to the Durham Miner's Gala, the Qanon vigilante who assassinated Gambino family crime boss Franky Boy Cali, and Josh Hawley's deranged blueprint for "National Conservatism". Catch our live show at the Traverse City Film Festival: https://secure.traversecityfilmfest.org/websales/pages/info.aspx?evtinfo=460935~4d61cd53-466a-4a38-9b0c-5dd9c77930d9&epguid=8fc1333c-62a3-467a-b51c-ada73714212e& We'll also be covering the 2nd Democratic Debates live from TCFF: https://secure.traversecityfilmfest.org/websales/pages/info.aspx?evtinfo=460934~4d61cd53-466a-4a38-9b0c-5dd9c77930d9&epguid=5d6845f7-fad1-45f4-a148-d6945b2debaa& Finally, come to Providence R.I. to see our live play of Call of Cthulhu there: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/chapo-trap-house-plays-call-of-cthulhu-live-tickets-62234533164

I Cannot live another day without air conditioning says tomorrow's gonna be a hotter hotter like yesterday yesterday Yesterday you said you'd call Sears. I'll call today. You call now. Hello. Hello. It is your chopper. It's me will here joining me Here are Matt Felix and Amber and we are all devising various strategies of coping with an absolutely Sweltering heat wave that is ravaging the east coast of the United States right now guys ever How are you beating the heat? I'm staying in my apartment and sitting in front of the air conditioning and Using blackout curtains on the windows and just trying to hydrate and beating back the hordes of people trying to break in because

Because they're bursting into flames Well, New York City is experiencing rolling blackouts in a killer heat wave Let's just let's try to stay cool people and let's bring some sense of cool vibes cool energies to you know anyone who is without air conditioning or You know just baking Drink lots of water by people water to by the way Um, I would almost people die this time of year more than they do in the winter I'd like to get something on the record just the beginning of this show. Like I said

brutal heat wave going right now and I've been seeing a lot of people say oh New York City is not the hottest summer in the world and I'd just like to say you're wrong There is no city with a hotter summer than New York City. There's also no other city where people are Tougher or classier the New York City in no other city in the world will you find people in this kind of heat? Just going about their day going to work doing stuff having making friends talking to each other No, where else in the world can you find that and a lot of people have been saying oh? Why don't you come to Dallas sometime and I'm like I'll never go to Dallas I never go to Dallas been there done that New York City's hotter. Oh

Come to Atlanta. No. Yeah, it's not as hot as New York I I fuck like New Yorkers are just like some of the lowest people in the world, but uh You know, they're higher than Texans Texas brag Texans brag about how hot it is and they literally they're a tiny little AC units in the big pants that they wear Big hats they're fucking pussies. They're inside like a hundred and seven percent of the year and They're just like y'all can throw an egg down in our driveway and fry it up and it's you know, I'm sick of it I'm sick of it New Yorkers may you know cause fake trend pieces In there, but they're various publications that are headquartered here because they get nervous in conversation and just lie and say things like

Oh, there's actually a really cool post-rock scene in Sarasota, Florida Because they were just so afraid of dead space of the conversation and every moment of their life is just Nerve-wracking anxiety-inducing social climbing and they're the most erotic people in the world But you know, they're better than Texans who just literally live like the people at Wally and And you know somehow fucking find a way to brag about how tough they are I'm also gonna go on record and say there is no place on earth Certainly no city that has a colder winter than New York City as well. No where hot of summer coldest winter Most temperate fall and spring months and I do not want to argue about this. So don't try

I will say this like that thing about like New York extreme weather is that we're not prepared for any of it And that's why it sucks more like I'm from Indiana, which has basically the same very extreme highs and lows But I don't know. We're prepared like we know when weather happens every year Like the infrastructure just crumbles under the weight of every winter and every summer I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you Amber and say that there's no city state or country on the planet That's more prepared for extreme weather in New York City. Okay. It's true. It's yeah It's true like New York when it gets hot like the bodangles They drag out their coldest dust and sprinkle the store in it to keep all the food cool. They put they

They all put their bodega cats in the freezer and then walk around the store to cool the customers You know the garbage that marinates on the sidewalk. It's probiotic It's wafted it's wafting into the air and it's like a vaccine against Ebola or whatever And you know, like I said, you could you could try to argue that there are cities that have hotter and or colder and or more temperate climates in New York City But what I'd say to you is count the rings, baby That's 27 world championships Derek Jeter the captain number two well

Amber you were you were joining us again back from a you know, I would say a slightly more temperate climate than New York City like not in not in the classy or tough sense of it just like in pure numbers you were in Once again The North remembers you're you're you're upstate shall we say? Yeah, I was upstate I went to the Durham Miners Gala actually for the second time which is the largest labor union sort of festival or event in the world Which is very weird because there aren't any minors anymore

It's actually I don't know if I actually formally announced this on the show, but this is for my book I have a book deal. Yeah. Yeah for St. Martin's Press I'm writing a book about the rise of social democratic politics post Reagan Thatcher, so You know, it's it's a lot of drinking stories. It's mostly just alcoholism But you know with politics. So how are things at the miners gala? What was the most gala event you attended? Well, I Started drinking at 10 we got rained on

Because it rains there it do be like that. I would kill for some of that. Oh my god is amazing and chilly and everyone's like Oh, this is oh no too bad. It rained and I'm like I'm so happy to be in this rather But it's really celebratory and you get to see all these sort of trade unionists give like rousing speeches then you you know The absolute boy was there. Yes was our boy there of course of course and then you always have like these Just wonderful northern English people just like the best people in the world just make scallywags Oh my god Just like you know girls with fake town and I fake tan and eyebrows that will just like cut you with car keys Like they're just they're they're just like, you know, Tony Blair never showed up to this like every time you hear about how he never showed up and

Yeah, it's it's all about sort of like Celebration in history, but also looking forward because for a long time the busting of the miners union during the 84-85 strike in the UK is Other than the fall of like the Soviet Union probably the biggest nail in the coffin and you know sort of cold war anti-socialist politics, so you and the miners gal are essentially trying to Sort of Dr. Frankenstein this thing back into yeah me personally. Yeah, no, but the thing is they've had like record numbers again since Since like labor has gone left people are excited about the labor party again. They're still excited about Corbyn

And people are sort of trying to get back to remember like a militant trade union isn't so it's very exciting and also It's like the best kind of English event where people are just really happy and and comradely and joyous and Wasted just wasted So yeah, be on the lookout for Amber's book on just this topic working title. It's gone up the apples and pears mate Can you ready believe it?

but just to kick off things on this show today, I'd like to Return to a bit of local news and by local. I mean here in the hottest Classiest classiest toughest city in the world New York City and this story comes to the West courtesy of Staten Island and I would like to check in now on a certain event and You know individual who I'm again firmly convinced the show has willed into being and that of course is the QAnon obsessed weirdo who ended up killing one of the heads of the New York five families in Staten Island And wouldn't you know it now that it's sort of gone to trial. We are beginning to Peer behind the curtain of just what

Inspired such an event to take place and you know take it with a grain of salt because this does come courtesy of his defense lawyer But it is a pretty amazing story straight out of the chopper mindset nonetheless. So this comes courtesy of the New York Times headline He wasn't seeking to kill a mob boss He was trying to help Trump his lawyer says in new court documents the lawyer for Anthony Camelo says he became obsessed by far Right QAnon conspiracy theories So it says here Court documents filed on Friday offered a glimpse into the deeply troubled mind of mr. Camelo

Who's hit who his defense lawyer says was so deluded by internet conspiracy theories that he was Determined to conduct a citizen's arrest of mr. Callie and turn the mafia leader over to the military That now this is of course Francisco Frankie boy Callie who is the reputed leader of the Gambino crime family and Mr. Camelo described here as an aimless young man who lived with his parents on Staten Island That's everyone who lives in Staten Island going on here says he ardently believed that Francesco Callie a boss in the Gambino crime family was a prominent member of the deep state and Accordingly an appropriate target for a citizen's arrest wrote mr. Camelo's lawyer Robert C Gottlieb, so I

Love the idea of trying to put a member of the Gambino crime family under citizens arrest Not for being in the mafia, but for being in the deep state. Yeah, why not? Yeah, I mean if people forget like one of the biggest story lines in season one of the sparrows was when Christopher Well Maltesante and Brandon Fallone stole juniors truck full of Adrena chrome Going on here it says Mr. Callie's murder was the highest profile mob killing in decades an event so significant that in the days between Mr. Callie's death and mr. Camelo's arrest speculated since he surged that a new war was brewing among the New York's five mafia families Now for those of you who don't remember the five mafia families are

Brooklyn Queens Staten Island the Bronx you put them all five together you got the hottest coldest city in the world That's New York, baby But it says here the reality according to his lawyer appears to be even more bizarre Mr. Camelo had become convinced that mr. Callie was part of the so-called deep state a Cabal of criminals the conspiracy theorists claim control the United States government mr. Camelo also believed that he was a chosen vigilante of President Trump mr. Camelo became certain that he was enjoying the protection of President Trump himself and that he had the president's full Support mr. Gottlieb wrote now, you know, I guess the theme for today's show would be a

Little bit of knowledge and truth is a dangerous thing in the hands and minds of an idiot And I like that the the sort of mafia deep-state connection thing cuz like I guess there's a grain I mean the mafia has collaborated with US intelligence and law enforcement before operation Gladio Not kidding P2 Masonic Lodge The pizza connection the French connection No, these are real Yeah, the mob helped to keep the communists out of power in Italy after World War two Specifically in America though in New York

It was lucky Luciano that the famous deal to like keep the New York ports safe from Nazi U-boats Yep, which was really the cover story to which meant keep them safe from any kind of union agitation or left-wing organize Yeah, the same guys who broke those strikes in Marseille in France after World War two again Were the guys who did the French connection heroin dealing. This is just sort of the theme of our era like All of this stuff is real. Everyone just gets like the details completely wrong like pizza gates. Definitely real It's just not in comic ping-pong, right? This is my favorite part of the story here. It says, um, mr. Camelo took handcuffs with him To Todd Hill on on March 13th, mr. Gottlieb said but his plan was foiled when mr.

Cali refused to submit to a citizen's arrest Just to be frank I thought that you the mob boss would take my authority as a guy wearing sweatpants To come with me to the military police office. Oh this fucking guy's asking for a letter of Mark Yeah, no, yeah, mr. Cali was completely stitched up when He noticed that there was an admiral T flag hanging outside his house But it says here Instead, mr. Gottlieb said the Gambino leader reached toward his waistband fearing for his life

Mr. Camelo shot mr. Cali ten times and fled QAnon a baseless conspiracy theory by the way, that's a needless Your bias reporting That originated on internet message board played a key role in mr. Camelo's descent into mental instability has lawyer said That's more more editorializing. Yeah, it claims among other things that America is controlled by a deep state that prominent democratic politicians are pedophiles I mean And that John F Kennedy Jr. Who died in a 1999 playing crash is secretly alive and will run for president in 2020 Okay, well two out of three. I don't know. I mean Matt someone showed us

They did the face-up of John F Kennedy Jr. And dude, it's real. Yeah, it looks just like just in fuchsia So it goes driven by that obsession. Mr. Gottlieb said mr. Camelo began early this year to attempt Citizens arrests of people he believed to be associated with the deep state In February, mr. Camelo twice tried to conduct his own arrest of mayor Bill de Blasio Including one instance in which he showed up at Gracie mansion the mayoral home in Manhattan Not long after that incident mr. Camelo sought the help of united states marshals at federal district court in Manhattan And asked them to help him arrest two california democrats Representatives maxine waters and adam schiff both of whom he believed were in the vicinity

He was rebuffed. This is the best never made episode of justified that i have yet encountered Just uh, you know, mr. Camelo approaching reyland givans and asking him to arrest maxine waters Yeah, i love that reyland givans, uh, like maxine waters is holding a baby and squeezing it like a free son And reyland is like now down in the holler Some some of the folks make their own adrena chrome They think it makes them faster, but i guarantee you i will put this bullet through your head Before you take one more sip of that baby I'm imagining uh reyland finding out that his uh, shitbag father was involved in the adrena chrome trade. He's like

We're not now reyland. That's just what we did back in the day That goes here, uh, mr. Gottlieb identified once one of mr. Camelo's accounts Real america's voice underscore on instagram and is filing The page has dozens of memes and written screeds It's so more difficult to decipher. I mean, yeah, if you don't take the fucking time to read the proofs and understand it Uh, including uh several posted days before mr. Callie's death One post accuses speaker nancy polosi democrat of california of being a fascist Patriot sleeper cells are awake. He wrote in another yet another refers to bill and hillary clinton as the clinton crime family

But mr. Gottlieb said he believed mr. Camelo had encountered posts online That suggested that mafia figures like mr. Callie were connected to the deep state Mr. Gottlieb said on saturday that he was sifting through thousands and thousands of messages and posts and forums That said mr. Camelo might he said mr. Camelo might have engaged with So this is a um a bold uh posting defense By defense attorney mr. Gottlieb just a bit of an update on you know the head of one of new york city's five families Uh murdered uh by someone who believed he was putting him under citizen's arrest at the personal behest of donald trump So well how he thought he was gonna go

I can guess I the best part is that he thought like imagine looking at donald trump and being like this guy's got my back The thing is like i feel bad for this guy because he's gonna get a really bad sentence because he's gonna get a hate crime modification on his conviction Uh for doing tropes by saying that the mob boss was a reptilian Making an anti-semitic hate crime I like the how his ambitions just sort of shrank at first. He's like i'm gonna personally arrest the mayor And i'm going to I guess get a couple of us marshals to help me go across the country to arrest some california congressman And then when he realizes that that's out of his purview. It's like well, there's a guy down the block

I'll just go arrest him. I don't have to go. I don't have to pay for the toll to go over the bridge It's so it's so statin island guy Just like yeah, it turns out. I actually live next door to one of the international immortal pedophiles Uh statin island is the best burrow in the world because you know, you can uh, you can meet a immortal immortal uh fallen angel uh from the forbidden ninth planet nabiru And uh, he's actually just another fat italian guy who looks just like you you don't have to go anywhere Most convenient burrow in the world and you get to drink on the ferry We got the best pizza. We got the best pedophiles baby number one statin island

Did I ever tell you guys my statin island fairy story? Yeah, what is it? Oh, I just like it's not even really a story It's like me and nick just decided to you know, because it's like a nice like ride You know and it was like a late shift thing so like a bunch of you know guys and like work suits were in there and uh one guy he pulls out like a plastic plastic uh bag and he sets it on his lap and then he pulls out uh one of those like one quart ziplock bags and it's full of pasta and red sauce And he just eaten it out of the bag I mean better better better to do that on a ferry than let's say like on a closed subway car or airplane

I guess but it's not like it's a smooth ride half the time that ferry runs into a wall in the water Matt as our resident cue watcher this one's for you I've never heard of the Gambino's or mafia at all related to cue other than this particular guy. Is it Just something a total invention of this great. I mean, I think that there if you go into it I'm sure I mean there's a million posts and there's only a few of them are actually cue the rest of them are people commenting on them, you know like medieval scribes or something But I think people just sort of riff and people riff on what's close to them So if you're a cue guy in Staten Island, it's like, hey, you know the guy down the block

He's got to be involved I assume it's at this point like a kind of thing where I could just pull any name that more than 10 people would know I like I don't know like nick Jonas and go in there and be like, oh, yeah Nick Jonas is totally involved in cue something more deep in the form post. Oh, yeah I like I'm sure that Nick Jonas is a white hat I'm sure that if you go to any town in this country of a large enough size like some local like like the guy who does the commercials for like discount electronics There's people who've decided that he's involved in cue because I see him on tv all the time

We should protect bob from bob's furniture I mean, he's got to be next I think um I mean like but this just like it just goes to show that like, you know, the sort of like nature of psychotic delusion isn't to be Divined very uh, like literally like basically when you get Sort of that stream of crazy. You just get a very sticky brain and things just stick to it It's like a ball of tape rolling around on the ground just picking up whatever's in the vicinity Uh, once again, I'm gonna have to disagree with you amber and say that the nature of psychotic delusion is to be studied intensely and shared

Hopefully We're gonna read them to you leave podcasting medium. No, I like the idea of uh bob from bob's furniture He's a black hat Absolutely going after him on the case is the general from the auto insurance general And she the beautiful handsome auto insurance general is a white hat Who's taking down bob from bob's furniture and crazy eddy My prices are so low. You'll think I'm a pedophile Oh

And the most uh, you know, internationally connected high power, you know fixer type lawyers for the pedophiles uh, seleno and barns Well, um, I'm going to be brought up uh, mayor mayor debungler You know managed to evade citizens arrest thus far for his connections to the uh, deep state, uh, conspiracy However, I would like to propose him as a candidate for citizens arrest for, um, Canceling this weekend's ozzy fest in central park thus robbing you our dear listeners from yet another report from the front lines of american insanity By your very hot sweaty boy matt christman. Yeah, what the hell? I was I was so excited about just getting sunstroke while listening to Malcolm Gladwell

So that slowly over the course of the conversation It made more and more sense as my pores just clogged up and I stopped sweating and I reached the 105 degree body temperature My brain turned into a fucking oatmeal. Uh, but no, can you can you believe it? This weekend's ozzy fest was literally cancelled due to the quote unquote heat emergency Yeah, not at all because mayor debungler o Fears the care the charisma of john casick in common Well, beta was gonna be there. So that's a guy who's competing with the boss the blaseo for votes So, I mean follow follow the money. Uh, yeah, this is a hatch-act violation if I've ever seen one

I don't know what that is, but it definitely stinks It was funny because it reminds me that last year a year ago. I was uh sweating my ass off listening to steve pinker uh, say in his on his panel of entrepreneurs about how The future is going to be better than now because of science and technology and somebody said hey What about global warming and they're like, well, yes, that's a challenge, but I think we're up to the up to it Year later. Yeah, no, it's 5000 degrees in new york in central park if you stood there for more than five minutes

You would literally die. Yeah, but it probably has more to do with the fact that like half the speakers were on the flight logs I mean, I think you shut it down a to silence beta and b There's nothing that the ruling class and the elites fear more Then both sides coming together for to form bipartisan common sense solutions to our problems that you know sort of turn down the dial on political bickering and turn it up On a political conversation. Yeah, I mean this is sort of like the french revolution meets 1984 all over again

uh Because you know how in v for vendetta, they wouldn't less let them like listen to music because it would like inspire them and like You know to make them rise up same thing with equilibrium another classic by george orwell uh So like imagine if the downtrodden population of new york You know just to give a sample lineup of ozzy fest got to first listen hear the fu fighters And then watch a speech by asa hutchinson They would it would be the most emotion they ever fault in their lives

That's like the highest in both like government and public service and art And it would have been like the end of v for vendetta where everyone puts on the anonymous mask and uh D dos is the government's website. I think And so they have to leave see I was thinking uh like their fear would Be that it would be like the end of do the right thing but with a bunch of like progressive libs And you know what I don't even really have a joke for it. I just like thinking about it I love that. They're just like you have to put a picture of bill mara upon your Yeah, I'm just gonna do the do the setup and led felix just like land the land the uh punch lines on that one

It just it tickles me throwing a garbage can through like the uh the window of the fox and friends studio So since the cancel that I I in order to simulate the experience I just put on a tom friedman audio book I was wanting a bathtub covered myself with fully turned on air dryer Hair dryers and just bake myself like a fucking uh What do you call it? Baked thing It's hot

You know, you don't realize I mean again, uh, another never been hotter anywhere else It's never been hotter anywhere else on the planet than in new york city right here right now. Uh, but um, yeah And you know, here's another topic that came up this week And I'm glad it's finally people are shedding some light on and that's um how damn hard it is to do a podcast Like do you people know that like we can't I can't even have a c on in my apartment when we're recording this? Because you complain about the ambient noise. I walked like three blocks to will's apartment Hell edit that out. I don't I don't want people um, you know reverse engineering our geolocation tags through google maps um, all right. Well, uh, ozzy fest, uh was

cancelled but uh This earlier this week there was another political conference going on that I think uh bears discussion this of course is the um, something called the, uh national conservatism conference that was hosted in uh, dc and basically, you know, uh, tucker carlson spoke there, uh, I'm gonna let a little bit I'm gonna read you from senator josh holly's remarks, but essentially this is um, a kind of uh, it was put on by the edmund berks society

Which is just a brand new, uh, font of um, I don't know demonic thought and enterprise that is You know, it's you know, it's something to sort of like rebrand the conservative movement in the era of trump because like, you know, this is something we've talked about like the fact that he got elected was like a major shock to the, uh, You know institutions that normally govern the conservative old guard. Yeah. Yeah, the fact that he got elected after saying things like Uh, you know, the iraq war was a disaster and we never should have done it He made I would say insincere, but at least um, you know, gestured at the idea that uh, People's health insurance is inadequate and you know, they would would like something better or jobs

I mean again, like these are you know, trump doesn't actually believe in any of these things and he is thus far governed pretty much exactly like Marco rubio or jeb bush would have done save for some of the trade stuff he's done, which I think is really like his only real Signature point of divergence from the rest of the the field but Kind of yeah, but I do think like uh, I mean like he literally got bored with venezuela And it was like i'm bored and it's hard So I do think like in terms of foreign policy. It's trade and foreign policy But like but here's the thing though is like these people are the that what we saw at the national conservatism conference is like These people are incubating the next trumps who will

Take you know pick up the ball that you know, he is you know, uh moving downfield in terms of he can't be recreated though Well, the thing is like but it's going to be someone who uh, like we've talked about tom cotton and now this josh holly guy Who are going to take like the sort of template and and use it in a way? That's even more uh cynical or you know better prepared or at least do have done the homework or whatever so the idea here is that Conservatism is trying to grapple with the fact that the sort of free market bromides about you know, uh, Uh the market business growth entrepreneurship aren't exactly cutting it to the average republican voter anymore They want something else and they're beginning to um sort of grope around this idea that you know

Perhaps free markets aren't going to give us the goods that we really want and the goods that they really want in this case is essentially a you know, a culture and politics dominated by white conservative christians And that you know every time nike, you know gives capronik an endorsement or that there is a you know gay couple in a serial commercial They you know, they are blaming that essentially on Uh that the forces of capitalism have uh conspired against them and it has uh sort of pushed further out of their grasp the the restoration Of an america that they would like to live in and that they in which people like them are respected and you know, uh

Admired once again. There's a split on the right. You know, I don't know how distinct it is but there's definitely a split between Like cultural conservatives like serious actual conservative like freaks and like free market capitalist guys. I mean Like neoliberalism is proving kind of unwieldy for the right and that's really strange because Like in other countries these would be two parties Yeah, like I mean they'd both be monsters, but for different reasons. Well, I mean, this is sort of like, um, you know the stat myelin q guy

Is that like I said, like there's like more dangerous than an idiot who has figured out one thing that's like kind of true And you know, I think we should be you know concerned with the fact that the right wing Is beginning to glom on no matter how? Um, insincerely to this idea the correct idea that is naturally felt by the vast majority of people in this country that the uh, the people at the commanding heights of our economy politics and culture Uh, essentially don't give a fuck about the vast majority of people and that for lack of a better term the washington consensus or neoliberalism Has deeply, you know fractured failed and you know gutted large swaths of this country So they're beginning to uh to to grope at that message

But you know what they're offering in return at least as evidenced by this uh conference is I think a kind of nascent More fully articulated than donald trump's kind of blood and soil nationalism I think what we used to say about tom cotton who I think is sort of proved by now He's not like quite ready for prime time. He's just a little too off-putting for people He's a little too even just a totally uninitiated person. We'll look at him and you know see dead zone but uh, how However, you say his name holly

Uh, holy. Yeah, holy Is he has to be the most terrifying republican senator because he's very young and you know, he's the youngest senator in in office right now right and You know, if you were going to ask this ridiculous hypothetical a few years ago, what would a competent trump look like you would be describing him He's perfect for that. Like he's He's trump with a coherent world view. I mean not right not coherent in the sense that it's you know consistent uh

Sort of consistent in its enemies and the reasons it picks its enemies like he's anti big tech mostly because you know They silenced conservative uncles on there, but uh, he has a camp like he's a trump that wouldn't Give up so but that's why it wouldn't won't work though because trump's whole thing is that he has no camp And like that was his appeal to you know, so many people I don't think that you can I think he's a shooting star a big dumb cruel shooting star I I do worry about the right, uh, you know the populist right picking up on just very basic um, you know capitalist critiques because historically that's a that's a real powder cake there Yeah

Well, yeah, the problem is is that for them as amber says is that he doesn't have trump doesn't have a base He was able to overcome the entire architecture of the party by being richard famous independently and so he could make his own agenda regular Regular republicans don't have that ability So what they're trying to do is rhetorically latch on to the trump critique Which is getting deepened as culture wars get more frenzied as everyone loses their mind because of the reality of trump being president But they can't put anything beyond behind it like look at holly holly's actual

Uh policies are all big business republican shit. He's of in faith against raising the minimum wage He's against any kind of extension of medical medical medical of medical insurance. Uh, he's again. He's a fucking four He's against unions. He was for the right to work thing that got crushed in in missouri Well, how the hell are you going to make any kind of coherent argument where you are the right populist opponent to capitalism? Well, demonizing labor unions And uh and supporting deregulation and tax cuts, which he's also in favor of that all bound rebound to the benefit of these people Why and and and he has to do that because he gets the same checks from the same billionaires as the rest of the republicans He's a fucking coke boy like the rest of these guys. They are they are limited in a way that trump never was

uh by the the the architecture of the republican party and That is why as scary as it is to imagine somebody Becoming the competent trump There are a lot of structural problems. There are a lot of structural things inhibiting that from happening the next Uh, uh trump type figure would have to have an independent base like trump did He would have to be able to split up the coalition meaningfully And to do that he would have to not be holden to the party as it exists Well, and there's nobody like that on the horizon. Thank god, uh, how successful this attempt to sort of retrofit

a new Intellectual conservative agenda onto trumpism will be Remains to be seen, but I think it bears paying close attention to Uh, regardless and I think that what we should do is now go in to senator josh holly's much celebrated Remarks and speech here at the national conservatism conference and matt I think you get you hit the nail directly on the head I read this speech and essentially like what you know, what he does with this is try to

Um, you know build up the you know the forgotten american The you know the middle class family who's experiencing Uh drug addiction or divorce or you know lack of uh stable communities and uh dignified employment And you know potentially blame putting uh laying the blame for that Both rightly and wrongly at the feet of elites But you'll notice what he doesn't mention is anything to do with as you rightly put it out matt Uh labor unions, right? So like I mean like how you could even begin to have a conversation about how to bring back the kind of

stable communities and families of the For the type of people or for any to any person in this country that these people are grasping at without Talking about labor or union power is just insane And of course he never will or because you know, he's a he's a ghoul straight out of you know, Yale law school stanford And some bizarre british public like, you know, and he's still completely beholden to the institutions. So yeah Yeah, but I mean like at the at the same time americans don't instinctually connect, you know, sort of this type of

Uh, this type of populism to being pro union to being a lot of things there isn't Like unions have been so systematically destroyed in the past few decades That no one's no the average person is not going to sort of be able to point out that inconsistency. I mean holly holly is like he's Just sort of like if tucker carlson was a senator and tucker has similarly incoherent views in that respect and that He's so he sort of spent like his entire life in the care of these billionaire right-wing organizations

And uh policy apparatuses. How about in the family of a billionaire right-wing organization, right? Exactly. Well. Yeah, exactly comes from an elite background But like people don't make the connection people aren't even people don't even realize they're poor People don't even realize they're not doing well Well, yeah, but you don't need you'll need people to make the connection You need a political movement to make the connection Which is why this whole thing is only scary if the democratic party is the democratic party and doesn't change I think people know they're not doing well. I would push back a little bit on that

I don't think they necessarily um You know have like a coherent worldview of why that is but like when you Sort of look at I mean, you know take it with a grain of soluble polling but people Generally sort of understand When they're struggling There is definitely a You know kind of like the weird american sense of like well, you know, I got steady work

I do all right and it's like you are living paycheck to paycheck like but at the same time if you were to ask them like How do you think americans are doing where they don't have to sort of like talk about themselves? They would be like people are suffering. Yeah, I think that's a that's a good distinction but like speaking to this this issue of you know, like uh, not being able to link up the inconsistencies in this or with it within your own life and our political vision. I think speaks to how uh ruthlessly efficient, uh, this you know people have been at Um conflating class with culture war or cultural signifiers Yeah, because like you know in in in the view of holly and the people at this conference

if you are like, let's say like a barista who like lives and works in an urban center and has like, you know purple hair and you know is uh Uh pursuing, uh, I don't know a graduate degree in a major american city. You are more of an elite than the, you know ski dude dealership suburban fuckwad in middle america or even Like an oil company executive. Yeah or less of an elite than that person in this rubric But also that there's a there's like a double um kind of problem with that too Is that like, you know, the the the struggling grad student young people and this especially like middle class young people Don't notice when they're downwardly mobile. They tend to think of their situation as being very temporary

uh, the number of people I have been in grad school who think they're going to get tenure is Astounding, I don't know what they're putting in the Kool-Aid in these higher institutions of learning or whatever, but it is actually kind of insane Um, so there's kind of an extra hump Uh to class consciousness with like people with liberal arts degrees who are like under 35 They're Sort of oblivious and and they kind of believe they're going to be an exception Like, you know, it's like the temporarily embarrassed millionaire except that like, you know, I say for millennials

They believe that they're temporarily embarrassed, uh, tenured professors. Well, let's let's go to the tape to uh, Holly's own words here and see if you can um, you know suss out uh any any more meaning about where this is going So I've just have a few highlights here. He says here The great divide of our time is not between trump supporters and trump opponents Or between suburban voters and rural ones or between red america and blue america No, the great divide of our time is between the political agenda and of the leadership elite And the great and broad middle of our society and the answer What to the answer and to answer the discontent of our time. We must end that divide. We must forge a new consensus

Wait the broad middle So there is the there is the agenda of a political elite Which he is laying notice. He said the agenda not not he didn't even go so far as to say the divide is between the elites He said well, they're agenda You see he's laying uh, the blame for this at the agenda of political elites of which he identifies of you know Being sort of both parties kind of washington consensus And then there is the great and broad middle of our society and that that is the real Uh division in contemporary politics. It's sort of like a a remix of barack obama's, you know

There isn't a red america or a blue america. He's saying that there is you know an elite cosmopolitan america and then everyone else And that their agenda is Almost strictly cultural right and their agenda also is independent of them. The agenda has caused the conflict Because of course, obviously he doesn't want to completely burn bridges with like major capitalists and heads of state So he's like well, it's it's an agenda issue. And by the way when he talks about the great and broad middle of our society I just want to point out that basically half of americans live in cities. Yeah Just to point that I just keep that in mind as this goes on plenty of working class people live on the coasts So he goes for years the politics of both left and right have been informed by a political consensus

Wait, do you think he means middle geographically because he completely he also I think he means both I think he's I think I think I think he's being as vague as I think it's a self-conscious conflation and vagueness that he's using to Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'd smuggle in this very like I said hard right blood and soil nationalism Which is which by the way like that that is his antidote to the politics of the elite Right and we'll get to that but he says here for years the politics of both left and right have been informed by a political consensus That reflects the interest not of the american middle But of a powerful upper class and their cosmopolitan priorities This class lives in the united states, but they identify as citizens of the world

They run businesses or oversee universities here, but their primary loyalty is to the global community Again, I like I like Well, I like that conflation of going from they run businesses globally and also oversee universities So it's like the conflation of like, you know, uh the goldman sacks vulture capitalism and like university administrators Yeah, as being like equally powerful or politically influential and pursuing a Right because they're trying to touch both bases culture and the yeah a ruthless Like for instance a ruthless policy of like the industrialization and the creation of a global supply chain to undercut American labor after the hollowing out of unions. I mean sure there's a lot of blame to go around for that

but again, it's like it's the conflation of like the uh, yeah someone who works in a city in a cultural industry And the heights of financial capitalism and politics or like Alan Greenspan for instance What's frustrating about this is Like when you hear people keep trying to develop these like dichotomy like first of all, obviously marks did it best There are workers in their capitalists and those that's the conflict But it's like, you know, it's like that chapter in Moby Dick Where he tries to do, um, like uh, he tries to like write about

What kind of whales are in what family apology? Yeah, he tries to do like But he thinks they're all fishes He's like, okay first things first I know one thing about whales whales are fish And second thing, I don't know anything about whales and neither does anyone else And that's kind of like it's it's really frustrating. I mean, it's Funny in Moby Dick because you're like, they're not fish. I learned that uh on pbs as a child But like it's strange watching someone sort of do, um

Try to sort of create a uh like a A landscape or a or a or a or a or a biome of of politics that like doesn't exist It's like it's like hearing about humors or something So he goes on here. He says on economics this consensus favors globalization Closer and closer economic union more immigration more movement of capital more trade on whatever terms The boundaries between america and the rest of the world should fade and eventually vanish

The goal is to build a global consumer economy one that will provide an endless supply of cheap goods Most of them made with cheap labor overseas and funded by american dollars But it's about more than economics according to the cosmopolitan consensus Globalization is a moral imperative That's because our elites distrust patriotism and dislike the common culture left to us by our forebears so again here he's like a very vague And like intentionally misleading conflation of uh the problems caused by globalization with this kind of

cosmopolitan culture that just doesn't like apple pie and church You know and i'm so like this is the thing the vast majority of american culture nowadays like the mainstream of american culture Has left these people by decades ago and they're not going to get it back So what they want here is sort of cultural dominance on their terms And the thing is we've spoken about this before you can't stoke a nationalism Without an internal enemy to stoke it against and what they've done what he's doing here is very self-consciously conflating like i said the the commanding heights of political and economic power in this country with sort of i don't know uh

The white being vague the white grandchildren who won't reply to your facebook means right right because they you know Listen to rap music and generally think that immigration is okay Or have purple hair or a nose ring or something like that the two poles of of elites in the country Goldman Sachs executives and people who are mad. They won't let you post porn on tumblr anymore So he goes here uh at the same time it has encouraged multinational corporations to move jobs and assets overseas To chase the steepest wages and pay the lowest taxes I mean what sorry i'm going back what it has encouraged what has encouraged this sort of the the cosmopolitan Globalization consensus. Oh, that's a really interesting cart before the horse kind of thing like they had to be encouraged to leave america

Like capital has no directives of its own and like it says oh like and to chase the cheapest wages and pay the lowest taxes You mean the agenda that you are essentially carrying out here in america Yes, you get it. You do you really want to go back on that giant tax cut that they just passed josh He goes uh just about any american worker without a four-year college degree will have a hard time in the cosmopolitan economy Maybe that's one reason why marriage rates among working-class americans are falling why birth rates are falling Why life expectancy is falling all the while an epidemic of suicide and drug addiction ravages every sector every age group Every geography of the working class. He's saying things that are true. This is like actually what is What is dangerous about this stuff is that someone is is acknowledging that people are miserable

There is like suicide and drug addiction and people are having trouble forming relationships and starting families I mean, there's no there's no solution to it because it's not a problem of capitalism It's a problem of the agenda of some special sector of capitalism Which is why he got nailed for being anti-semitic and I think that I don't really think he was trying to be anti-semitic I mean, I but at the end of the day if you're gonna blame The the the problems of capitalism that are endemic to it that are built in like that whole The conflict between traditional values and capitalism. There's found it. That's built into capitalism Mark's talked about that it's the ultimate destroyer of all traditions

It has to it will over time destroy all traditions because nothing can stand in front of it But if you will not point out capitalism as the issue then you have to have some cabal of capitalists who have a specific agenda and then Well, you have to have an explanation for why he can't articulate the the the parameters of that cabal Like he he has no sense of he can't say exactly who they are So what he does is invoke he does tropes right like not even on purpose and you because there's no other explanation You have nowhere else to go if you've got capitalists who are mutating and manipulating the market in order to get the criminal capitalists to get these cultural outcomes

How why are they doing it? What there has to be something different about them? It's and that's why you have to say well, they don't have patriotism But but like well, why not and that's why it always ends up turning to the jews because there's a ready-made explanation That because they are considered to not be part of the nation that of course that they want to destroy it They're jealous of it. They can't be part of it And you know, it's like cosmopolitan capitalism is replacing crony capitalism as like the go-to Boogieman for like why everything sucks right, you know You haven't reaped any of the benefits of the supposedly great free market system that we live under and I'll tell people people are manipulating

Yeah, no, and I'll go I'll go a step further. It's like well, you know I don't think it's like as nearly self-consciously evil as this guy It's also I'm sorry the problem with like Elizabeth Warren's view of capitalism is this idea that there are Ethical and unethical capitalists and you just need to like find the the ethical people and put them in charge Because Matt you're exactly right. It begs the question. Well, like what what is it about the unethical capitalist? Like, you know, what is it? Is there but what is there something endemic to them personally? Yeah It's like it's like a combination with with Warren

It's a little different because she does love to talk about greed, but also she's fundamentally and technocratic nerd So she's like it's like a twofold problem one, you know, we we need a good and virtuous man driving the soul harvester and And to like, you know, we need to you know, maybe replace the brick pads on the soul harvester But uh, you know, here's who he gets into The meat of it here. He says the left champions multiculturalism and degrades our common identity The right celebrates hyper globalization and promises that the market will make everything right in the end Eventually, perhaps in truth neither political party has seen much interested in the American middle

There he goes again with that phrase the American middle for quite a long time This is something Democrats do too where they just won't shut the fuck up about the middle class Which is again a category with no parameters They never say who that is when they when they tried to nail Bernie on, you know, Medicare for all They're like will this raise taxes for the middle class and I think he did a pretty good job But I think the better answer is who's the middle class? Like show me the middle class and when people talk about communities point to the community Like what are you talking about? Like they don't they discuss these categories?

They pick the vaguest categories possible um to get them out of one alienating like actual elites that they're going to need to win any election and two to sort of you know be a It's like a horoscope. You make things as vague as possible so people listen to it. They're like, yeah That kind of sounds like the problems I have that kind that kind of sounds like you know what I what I uh suspect is happening Going on here. He says

Let's start with this America is not going to become the rest of the world And the rest of the world is not going to become America We are a unique nation with a unique history and unique purpose in the world unique new york unique new york But again like so like what what he's offering in lieu of you know, let's say You know the type of economy that would provide stability to that You know middle he keeps talking about is what he's giving them instead is a a a mythic sense of purpose and destiny

What if I yeah, I don't know that that that rhymes with a certain part of history The rhyme gives its gold to the sea and he goes that history began 2000 years ago Oh It's just free land It's a bunch of land you killin natives. Do you have a gun? They have a spear you take it from them and you just give it to everybody and And it gives you this great opportunity to just Align all of these conflicts within the society by just giving out the free land and then guess what the free land's gone

And now we're having a fucking gigantic nervous breakdown because there's no Outlet anymore because if that history began 2000 years ago It's when the proud traditions of the self-governing city states Met the radical claims of a jewish rabbi who taught that the call of god comes to every person And the power of god can work through each so that every human being has dignity and standing and can change the world And so the idea of the individual was born And our first forebearers brought that radical conviction to these shores and reshaped the republican tradition They built a new republic governed not by a select elite in the day as in the days of old

But by the common man and woman grounded on the premise that it is the common man and woman who are the noblest of citizens Okay, I want to go through a couple things here uh one This whole idea like you know that that that the problem that these people have with cosmopolitanism or liberalism or multiculturalism is that it Too much exalts the individual and makes us all sort of these hyper atomized individuals who are all different from one another Without any common culture or grounding

So like but yet here you guys like what's so great about you know, the jerusalem athens connections is that it invented the individual And that are are the our forebearers, you know enshrined You know the the primacy of that individual, you know in our constitution and the bible and fucking, you know Plato and Aristotle or whatever the reason they seem so ambivalent about collectivism though Is that they know that they need? Collectivism to get any kind of a political movement going behind them obviously when they win Collectivism is bad. It's like okay. You all need to break up now But like it's like they understand there is a political utility to thinking about you know us

But then you know when you're in power like fuck that you're all individuals there aren't there is no society There are only families men and women so yeah, and then also You know forget all this jerusalem athens bullshit But he goes uh that are our our nation was founded by people Who knew that the republic should not be governed by a select elite and that the common man and woman were the noblest of citizens That is 100 a historical absolute horses. The founding fathers Loathed and feared the common man and the people are a great beast Alexander Hamilton Just just leaving behind just we'll just pretend that like

Slavery wasn't wasn't a part of such a or that women were fully enfranchised citizens as well forgetting that entirely just like you know Reading the receipts like their opinion on the rabble was like disgust and fear. That's why we have a senate That was that's the tradition that they took from the classic era In the original constitution neither the senate nor the president were directly elected both of those things have been over time May happen at universal suffrage even for men was not a thing There were there were land requirements in basically every state so continuing here. He says Uh, and and that will require change because an economy driven by money changing on wall street

Ultimately benefits those who have the money to start with and that economy will not support a great nation. I mean Fair enough, right josh. What do you okay? But like continue He goes so we need to start thinking and new policies We need to start thinking and new policies to bring the work that makes citizenship to every person in america Willing and able to work that means encouraging capital investment in the great american middle in our workers Not just in financial assets. That means investing in research and innovation in the heartland of this country Not just in san francisco in new york. That's the j.d. Vance thing. Yeah who just put some incubators in

Sprinkle some incubators across the rust belt j.d. Vance also spoke at this conference by the way Oh, of course and he goes that means challenging the economic concentration that stifles small producers and family enterprises Small producers. Well, that is the real fundamental. I mean, this is very humanizing the first big big split in the in In the republican party in the 50s Between like the taft people and the eisenhower's over wall street and over You know shit like the un and the marshal plan Like the the original base for like the reactionary conservative movement that ended up coalescing around gold water

Were these middle american small small capitalists who felt like they were being screwed over by A kind of economy that was rigged around large capitalists But at the end of the day that movement upward that consolidation that annihilation of of of boutique firms and small Concerns that's an inevitable byproduct of capital accumulation that is no reversing it in a capitalist context As you create a global market, which we have the like The he basically wants to create like a fucking like a Epcot center of little subsidized fake Entrepreneurial outfits that are all just directly

propped up by global capital streams and are totally not viable on their own But just exist because they make us feel better. They make us feel like we're on Main Street USA And you know like what he's talking about here is like, you know in our lifetimes We have seen in this country probably the greatest single upward transfer of wealth in human history From the hands of this so-called middle to I don't know five or six people Yeah, you know, I mean, I mean that's an exaggeration, but that's about it. Like I mean like this is a seven or eight pedophiles

I mean, this is a real thing and he's right both the left and the right It's just as the left existed this country have largely presided over that same transfer of wealth It's happened under democratic presidents. It's happened under republican ones. It tends to be, you know hypercharged under republican ones and then slightly papered over under democratic ones, but essentially the you know the format still exists there, right And you know, so what do you what are you saying here? It's like he's he's he's diagnosing a problem But like you will not hear the word profit or wealth

Discussing this in terms of like who gets to reap the benefits of globalization for instance Like, you know, if we're gonna have a globalized economy, how about you tax heavily the people who benefit the most from it And subsidize those who are, you know, left out if we're going to have such a, you know If we're gonna have worship at molex temple, you know, that could be one arrangement But you'll notice that that is of course perfectly elided by holly and the national conservatism conference And the idea that that you're ever going to be able to compete domestically with international Uh labor that is vastly cheaper. That's just impossible The way the only way to do that is to create the carry kind of international institutions that he's so scared of but use them to

Create international standards for labor Really brave of them to come out in favor of a new common turn Such dramatic arbitrages And also that fucking internationalism is literally the only way we're all not going to die I mean period like okay, we're going to be we're going to be fortress america Is that going to stop the fucking oceans from rising? Is that going to stop it from being 150 fucking degrees every day in the summer and the the midwest from turning into a dust bowl? There's no way to prevent the global economy and and its outputs from affecting america

So the only way to to ameliorate the the worst of what's coming is through international frameworks that get everybody to stop Fucking putting this shit in the air There's no fucking solution. That's america only they're it's or any other individual country Because then they're just going to be competing with each other Which means every fucking drop of oil and natural gas is going to get pulled out of the earth and put into the atmosphere until we're Fucking venus, uh, did I read a news article this week the parts of the arctic are on fire at the moment? Yeah, that's fine. Whatever permafrost is melting releasing. Actually, that's good because the fire Will sterilize all of the prehistoric diseases that are going to be belched out of from like, you know some woolly mammoths asshole

I love when they like I love when you like you Like are reading about um like climate change and the things like rising sea levels. I mean like they're obvious, but like You know extreme weather, but for the real heads when you start getting into disease Like that's when you're like, oh no, that's going to be the really cool one Like that's going to be the end of day's shit. It's like when we have new plagues just rolling across major continents well dinosaur gonorrhea You clever girls You win

Matt though, I mean, I think you had the phrase that sums it up best fortress america Yeah, because that is where this is going and that's what these people want to recreate They want to recreate a fortress america not just with them in charge politically But with them in charge culturally because here's where he gets into he says to rebuild our common purpose We must protect our communities of faith because religious faith has fueled our history and shaped our aspirations and bettered our society It is not the role of government to promote christianity or any religion But let us be clear our government should not hinder or diminish religious expression We need strong religious communities active in civic life protecting their vulnerable defending the weak because these communities have helped

Make us who we are as a people. Here's where here's where it gets to the really schizophrenic and evil part of this if he's talking about how What we need of more of america are strong families strong communities with strong religious ties But also we need to kick out Basically all immigrants then you're shooting yourself in the foot because if you look at like The communities in america that are most religious Most tied to family and their individual neighborhoods and communities. You're basically talking about immigrant communities And there were other people speakers. Well that an elite megachurches. Well, that's they would prefer that

They would prefer that one, but like you know, that's that's their bread and butter You can't badmouth this supposed like, you know cosmopolitanism of you know, secular Liberal values or whatever and like here's the thing There was there are other speakers at this conference including a I think upan law professor named amy wax Who by the way, look her up. She looks like a dick tracy fucking villain and you know sounds like one, too So she basically said straight up that America's immigration policy needs to favor a white Anglo or european immigrants over all others and she said this wasn't based on race

but based on culture and the idea that we should Prioritize immigrants who have a quote cultural affinity for america over ones that don't and that will necessarily mean White immigrants over non white immigrants and i'm like, okay, if you're talking about immigration in america Basically, you're basically talking about mexico and central america, which are overwhelmingly christian countries who despite The best interventions of this country have an experience with democratic government and cult society Right, but also if you think about like the people that don't have an affection for Whatever american values like what are we gonna like keep out the french? Yes, well, what do they even mean like they're really big fans of the fucking tgi app sampler

What the fuck is affinity for american culture? That's the thing is when they say american culture They mean a white conservative christian culture and not the american culture of like flat brim marvel hat guys that actually But those american christians don't have culture either. There's no culture in the exerbs. There's no culture in the fucking mega churches I mean, I would say like culture is fills a vacuum It's just bad and incoherent and anti-social culture. I mean like the suburbs have a culture like You know, it's been memified a lot. It's just it's not It's not it's an anti-social culture. It's like an incoherent culture of atomized people. It's not produced actively It's not collaborated upon

It's sort of like whatever people sort of suck up from media and kind of congeals in in that geographic space Amy wax also went on to talk about how when she talks about the cultural differences between You know real americans and immigrants from mexico and central america She said the problem with their culture is that they're too loud and they litter too much So that that's the level we're talking about here everything that was said about every European ethnic group with exactly. I mean like it was a language. I guess that's that's a barrier or whatever but like That was a barrier for fucking, you know, uh, jewish immigrants from fucking poland or germany or or italian

How much cultural affinity with american with american culture? Did irish and italian immigrants who came here in huge numbers in the 18th and 19th centuries have Not a whole fucking lot all of these wasps. Yeah, and and the wasps of ruling class of that era was Acutely aware of that and terrified of it. Yeah mid 19th century. They're loud and they littered exactly children 19th century wasps said that uh That american democratic government was incompatible with catholicism Not like that was a real thing Uh, it was a universe. It was a it was a widely held belief. It's what led to the no-nothings being created because the

Catholics don't their allegiance is to some weirdo in rome. It's not to the american institutions And now half the fucking assholes making these arguments are fucking catholic Uh, I just want to read one last thing here about the national conservatism conference. Uh, this comes courtesy of uh osita And when avu writing in the new yorker Friend of the show I was going to read the last paragraph of his piece, uh, because you know, he covered this and I think he uh He sort of cuts to the heart of what's going on at this conference and I think he says it better than I could so he goes here

The tension between desiring a strong common national identity and respecting the integrity and independence of particular communities and families Is resolved in national conservatism by the belief that the american nation ought to be uniformly composed of the same kinds of people The conservative nation desired by the national conservatives will assist the parts so long as those parts are majority white christian And naturally conservative. This will be a hard country to bring about despite the best efforts of the trump administration It's now commonplace to say that trump's policies and rhetoric do not reflect who we are as a country This is true not just as in a creedal or spiritual sense, but in a sheer demographic sense The united states is irreversibly diverse Non-white american citizens will not be spirited out of the country by tweet or by incantation

The right may lash out at them in rhetoric or policy or violence But nothing will create for conservatives a country of people mostly like themselves The best they can hope for is that they might continue to govern a country filled with people they despise Only time will tell whether national conservatism is a politically viable vehicle for doing so And I think I mean, I think that got sound to it This is something we've spoken about time and time again on the show Is we find ourselves in a very weird place in which a hard right wing dominates all three branches of government due to the but

they're governing a population of people who are 70 percent completely out of their grasp and you could go down issue by issue Just take do you want rovey way to be overturned? Supermajorities of americans do not want to see that happen It's not going to stop them from doing it if should they get a chance to But I mean this is this is the paradox that the national conservatism is attempting to Uh address which is that how do we create some kind of democratic legitimacy for a country for ruling a country that We despise and despises us and I I am skeptical actually of

um sort of their ability to Split I think capitalism is sort of like too entrenched for them to have like a a genuine sort of um, you know conservative movement that Has to at the very least kind of curtail some of most horrible like aspects and inhumane sort of Aspects of capitalism. I like I'm very skeptical of that, but nonetheless. I think it is Definitely worth keeping an eye on because like the last kick of a dying donkey, especially like You know a conservative right wing, uh populist That classic republican donkey. Yeah

Like I mean It's it's very appealing you can see it in other countries too. I mean like whatever the tommy robinson stuff in the uk It was someone who's like or just a fucking nazi like being like look, uh, you know That the markets have been cruel to you and people are getting People are getting invested in it its ability to be effective is going to be Very very closely connected to the ability of the opposing party to articulate an actually incisive critique of capitalism if if if if the democratic party doubles down on the idea that actually capitalism

Is great because it gives you you know, uh pride month Sponsored by bank of america Then that's the only way that this totally incoherent hash of bullshit is going to be remotely credible to anybody Uh, I just want to go back to your last point Well, because it is something that I was thinking about last week and during last week's episode About like donald trump's they hate america thing The thing that makes it particularly vile for me is And it was put into perspective by reading this because it's like you read through that and

Simmering through every line of somebody like holly's speech is We hate america. We hate the way it is currently composed. We hate the people of america. We hate their beliefs Literally everyone who is not in our increasingly shrinking minority voting block is evil and wrong and unamerican and bad And then their current lash out is that no no no it's actually the democrats who hate america and I obviously we Hypocrisy is dead as I like call out force, but it is it put that whole Trump and the squad thing into just such a harsh perspective to read these like seething with a vile venomous Hatred for what america is lines from the current or in the or perhaps the future of the conservative movement I'll say it again and please keep it in mind as you encounter more and more of this bullshit

Be it from josh heli Tucker Carlson jd vance or any of these absolute fucking con artists Half of all americans live in a city and they work in the city And there is fucked over by these obscene concentration of wealth as anybody like you keep talking about these guys Love to talk about silicon valley and how unfair it is that it gets all of this money It hasn't been great for the people who have to live and work in the in those areas They're getting priced out of any kind of housing or any ability to live anywhere near any of their fucking jobs so

Worth keeping an eye on Felix are you still there? Okay, well, we lost Felix at some point during this conversation but He's got to move got to prepare for the episode one show tonight But matt and amber you ably picked up the slack as always so Any any closing any other closing thoughts or plugs or anything? It's too hot. It's too fucking hot out

It's too hot new york city number one number one in the world, baby Um, and yeah, be on the lookout for uh, amber's book. Do you have a pub date on that yet? No Well sometime next year well watch here for further updates. Okay guys till next time. Bye. Bye. All right If you don't love it leave it let this song i'm singing be warning And you running down my country man you walking on the fight inside me I read about some squirrely guy who claims he just don't believe in the fact And I wonder just how long the rest of us can count being free They love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way