Chapo Trap House - 386 - Brother Magic feat. Josh and Benny Safdie (1/20/20)

Episode Date: January 21, 2020

We discuss various colorful local New York personalities with the Safdie Brothers (as well as their new film, Uncut Gems) COME SEE US ON OUR TOUR OF PRIMARY STATES!  ALL TICKETS AVAILABLE AT: www.chapotraphouse.com/tour Iowa City, IA Feb 1, @ Englert Civic Theater Derry, NH Feb 9, @ Tupelo Music Hall Las Vegas, NV Feb 18, @ House of Blues San Diego, CA, Feb 23, @ The Observatory North Park Los Angeles, CA Feb 25 @ Lodge Room (2 shows!) Sacramento, CA Feb 28 @ Ace of Spades San Francisco, CA Feb 29 @ Palace of Fine Arts

I When we when we first were thinking of or fantasizing about doing this interview you guys Felix had the brilliant idea that as soon as we started the interview we would talk to Benny Assuming that his character from good time was it just him? Yeah, you like dude. You made a movie. That's so cool Yeah, that's amazing made a movie. That's incredible. Yes Like you I could do it There is a you guys know Tom Sharpling yeah Oh, we used to listen to the bus show a lot in and Benny that character

Was developed with Ronald Bronson, so there was and then every once in a while Ronnie would be like oh well No, people aren't gonna it's not real. It's not gonna people aren't gonna do it's not gonna work No one's gonna buy that nobody's gonna buy the voice. I'm like no the I'm telling you I could do the voice people will Accept it as real and it was just a whole thing. And so I would call in who's the greatest Judge of yes, is Tom Starling always gets these calls to get off my get off my you know get off my phone and I would call trying to convince him that I was a real person and so I would call as as Nick and I would get on to the phone and then there was a whole thing with the grandmother listening to you

I had this whole theory of like this whole scene that was working and he Didn't hang up. It was it got really like silent on the air And then I think actually our friend Jake was also listening and he texted me right when it happened He goes man It's like you got it like you you he totally thinks that that's real and it was just like got silent So you test these things in real life. Yeah, I so it's it is it in that sense It was just like but I've had full-on interviews with people who either a don't know or look at me like I'm a ghost like

What's going on? Well, you said like you guys were talking about like the patronizing like hey, man Like you said like congrats. You made a movie. That's it. Good job. That's like that's sadly I hate that shit. You know what? I mean like someone was talking to their playing basketball and Someone was like special needs, you know, they were they were development is disabled in some way and then like, you know They they were getting special treatment. Everyone was like walking on eggshells. Just treat everyone the same way How about that? You know what? I mean and and and I know that when we were doing research with with Pattinson up in Yonkers Benny at when he stayed in character when we were doing this research people just ignored him

They pretended like he was like a not a real human being they squeezed him out No one wanted to talk to him It was there was and he just naturally ended up being you know pushed to a corner There was like a full conversation and the circle just slowly closed and I was literally just on the outside not in and I was like People are ugly and it's it's it's strange and it's like in that and for that It's like we look to cast somebody who was disabled, you know, we really wanted to do that But there was the speed of the schedule the speed of everything, you know It we would have had to do so many things that were unfair. It was the action sequences

We would have been manipulating and it would have had somebody out of out of what we thought was nice You know, it wasn't comfortable. So speaking by the way of prank calling I am a degenerate Knicks fan and there is one Knicks show that is talking like the listenership is probably two to three hundred People it's still around and it is still around. I'm not gonna bring it up But but they this is my JD in the straight shot fan podcast I mean the people on that on that the listeners of that show can name songs by JD and and I would I had a character who was known as the the dog guy and I had this like

Soundboard of dog barking and I it was hard to do that when I would get that my dogs knew about my Eternal Knicks frustration and that when I would start getting hyped up the dogs would start barking So I would have to be talk giving a rant and then start hitting all of my buttons with the barking And then the host would be like they're barking. They're barking It became like a thing and the whole character was it's funny because I don't really know where I ended and this character began well, I mean like to your earlier point about, you know, just a I'm treating everyone the same and everyone being equal I think we should like in the spirit of that

Let's just all go around the room and do our version of that voice Just try it out and see how it goes. I think I think people Really well People really like us for it. This is generally how I start my day. Yeah, you know Getting the instrument ready. Yeah, I was saying we should actually open by asking if you'd like to Apologize for the anti-semitism of your Of your movies of good time. Yeah Some things can be superpowers

You say that I say it's a superpower. Well, I guess I should Formally introduce this episode in our interview in case you haven't already figured it out. We're talking to the softy brothers And of course, we've all seen Uncut gems now. It's it's been I think the most meme-able movie of the year Is that true? I can't you can't tell when you're in the middle of it. I can't know. No, just a screenshot of Sandler This is how I win. I've seen so many times now online, but So like I look at gems is a very like singly New York movie that features many again

Unreplicatable genuine New York weirdos in it before we get into that movie I got to talk about what I think is maybe One of my favorite films ever and I know you guys have a connection to it I'm speaking of course about sensational internet video Short man screams at Douglas Levison. Yes. I actually did a podcast. I know you did a podcast And I am I am fascinated just to hear a little bit more for those of you who don't know the video is imagine Paul Simon with Anton Chagur's haircut

Going on a like unbroken five-minute rant Verbally abusing a like busker in the village Anybody know who you are? Maybe anybody else wants to enjoy the peace and quiet This is one of the most important places in all of North America. Who are you? Who are you? Oh, you miserable presumptuous. No talent You know artist and artist respects the silence it serves the foundation of creativity Obviously don't have the talent. You don't have enough respect to yourself or other people or what it is to express yourself in music really of the form of creativity and

I'm an NYU film school graduate Sucker and the school of visual arts and the Academy of Art University in San Francisco You suck. You are no talent If you really act out go practice and they get yourself a gig Instead of ruining the end of the day for everybody down here My favorite my favorite in the financial area My favorite moment in that is when the guy gives in and says, you know what all right fine And he wants to move on and he's like no and he doesn't want to move on and he

Walk Bob yeah, no he Douglas Levison we actually we put him in heaven knows what we shot a scene with him opposite Ariel pink and And we cut the scene we recreated the fight and We didn't use it. It wasn't right, but it's online. It's online. It's it's but Douglas Levison first of all he's super into TM. He's and I find a lot of new age I I a lot of my heroes are big TM people. So I I've never done TM. I did some meditation But I never did TM, but he the idea of somebody who practices regularly meditation Exploding like But like it's as particular in like the financial district where that video takes place

He I asked I talked to them about it and he says that he has one of his skillset is verbal judo Yeah, that's exactly what I saw in that video. It's poetic too. It's like an incredible soliloquy really is That whole setup like you know who the fuck are you and he gives like five other ones and it's all the same No, when he says that great thing the silence is the that is my favorite line in it He goes who the fuck are you a true artist respects the silence the service of the foundation of creativity? Exactly, although by the way, is that true? I don't know. I I find I listen to music a lot Music is it's one of those things where you just deliver something. It's such a good rhythm

You don't have time to think about whether what they said makes any sense or not. It's like a nuts the Biden speaking You know, he's a musician And I think he genuinely was just kind of like offended by the lack of talent on display and that he was Forced in this moment to listen to it when he just was on his way. Who knows what he's dealing with in that moment Yeah, I mean like it seemed like he was just like one of those just like roving yelling guys every city has them Yes, but like it is but he's not that's not common for him. I think that was an explosion I think he like I think he nor he's not like a normal screaming guy is like Kind of that that that whatever it is in your brain that keeps your internal thoughts internal

That normal screaming people just that that switches Wondering how many screaming guys I've encountered like I just that aren't regularly screaming That's a type of person We did we did something a long time ago There's nothing to do. We made a short film where it was like, okay We wanted to create one of these screaming guy things on a public bus and so we created this whole like Scenario where all these people got on the bus at all the actors and all the actors would get on at different points and start

Filming just because they're in New York. They're on a bus. How cool and then I would get on Right before the bus went into the park and once it went into the park We knew we had like four minutes before there was the way on the other side and the bus driver could stop and kick me off So there was a four minute time to start the scene and I the whole thing was I was upset that there was a baby crying on the Bus and I would yell to the woman in the back, too, but we have to note that the baby was actually a fake Crying so all the everyone on the bus heard was some guy screaming about a crying baby They thought something was off and so that he's wearing a suit Yes, but the idea was we wanted to see what would get everybody in the bus to kind of come together

No, there's the thing that I the thing that I detest is that like public shaming, right? The cricket lady. Yeah. Well. What was the cricket lady? Oh my god. Remember the fucking cricket lady She released a bunch of like crickets. Whoa. Oh, yeah Over the bridge Just a box of crickets and then people were like actually there was a video of it and people were actually like weirdly nice in that way The New Yorkers are like, okay. Yeah, okay. Calm down. We're all we're gonna get and she's like screaming and it was No, she was like acting like an insane woman and you know running around and and then later She was like actually I'm an art student and people were like

Everyone she's like I wanted to see how people treat the mentally ill and everyone in the video was really nice They're like, all right. All right. We're gonna be fine. We're all on your side Like it was so everyone was so nice to her and it's like She just did like fucking NYU. I'm shuriko This was an actual we had wanted to make a short film Yeah, we wanted to use all these people who are on the bus as extras. Yeah without them knowing Yeah, but it was also like to see what happens if a handful of plate planted people if they started If they started

Ganging up on somebody if people would intuitively just join in and and they did yeah And then yeah halfway through the park the bus driver stops the bus like pull it over and then he literally physically got thrown off the bus It was just like all for yelling about a woman a woman's baby But then Ronnie's that's Ronnie who we wrote gems with is he's he's on the bus Ronald Bronson And he and we he was like actually had a he had a camera in his pocket recording the audio and so but at the end He's like, he's like, I don't know about you guys. It goes I wouldn't assault the guy And then everybody's oh, but the moment he yells is like when you know the thing that I know the thing that Ronnie

Ronnie is great. We do a lot of things with Ronnie. I love you Ronnie. He He He in in particular doesn't like the collective joy that everyone felt yes after they threw him off like we did our part And then he was like no no no He's like, I don't think someone tried to like egg him on be like wasn't that guy an ass He's like listen you say what you want. Well, like you don't assault a guy Douglas Levison yeah, mr. Levison and the angry man yelling the trumpet player what I find so phenomenal about that It's like, you know three five minutes three to five minute video

And it really is a complete journey and the and then what's amazing about it is the angrier he gets and the more And like full-froth he gets He remains totally articulate throughout all of it and he actually gets more articulate not easy So like as it cascades further and further it takes on a real sense of pathos. Yeah with this guy It's incredible what he reminds me of like I'm not gonna get too far into this guy because it's a saga but there is a YouTube man, I've been obsessed with for 12 years named Dan Quinn. Who's that Dan Quinn is a former there goes to resty up Dan Quinn is a noted former Notre Dame football player who is expelled for

What he says was a trumped-up charge by who he calls Lucifer Lou holds the coach of Notre Dame and Anyway, he smoked math for 20 years and went insane and believe that if you took the sugar replacement stevia You could make something that could replace cocaine and also cure cancer and is there any validity to that? Madness but like I've been obsessed with him for 12 years I knew him through like MMA forums He was a big deal on MMA forums because he would call it fighters and he's so fucking crazy And he gets so fucking mad but in all the videos where he gets mad he has these like amazing turns of phrases and like sort of Weird economy of speech and I think there's like a point you go past of just being like a bizarre fucking person and

Maybe some degree of insanity Where you are kind of better at language than a normal person and I think Levenson's kind of like that Well, because you're so used to hearing yourself speak is you think that's a little bit of that maybe Yeah, maybe you're presumably he had that thing about the silence being the foundation of creativity in his head Oh, yeah, that's something that is probably What He has the same inverse relationship to articulation and rage the the thing you have to remember about Douglas is

he's ultimately an amateur musician and he's seeing another amateur musician and He does have that he did walk Bob Dylan out onto stage out on stage in 1967 whatever he's whatever it was He wants to flex that's him. He's he sees another guy. Why are you film school? No, he's I know it's like what who uses that is the transcendental meditation thing doesn't surprise me either though because like like I think of Lynch is like the I've seen you've ever seen the video where David Lynch where they ask him Are you do you think people will start watching movies on their phones and he just slow boils to a screaming rage? It's such a sadness that you think you've seen a film on your

fucking telephone Get real. I just think that Tien doesn't help with that kind of anger. I think it's I mean I think it's about the organizing thoughts, but it's not a anger suppressor That that the TM is what keeps people from doing that all the time It's like a serum that keeps the werewolf at bay. I mean, it's it's really worked for Modi But just though when when you have him when you talk to him on a podcast I seem to remember like asking him like, you know, what like what were you thinking? Or what was the genesis of this outburst that I think he said 9 11? I don't remember that

Oh, I was thinking of 9 11 at the time I think they're down near ground zero. Well, like that's I believe that I believe that I think that he's um I think he's a deep guy Douglas Levison. I you know, he He wanted to continue working together. Uh, I know someone in LA who ended up shooting something with with him, too I wonder what he's up to. I haven't spoken to him in a little bit But Mitchell Wenig who appears in our movie? Uh in gems who's the guy who sandler gives the watch to and he ends up coming back saying this is a fucking fake role It's Mitch is a guy who Benny and I met in a diner in 2011

And we put him in a short in 2012 and we stayed in touch with him. He's the best stories He's one of the we weird If you see the movie, this is the guy that is like at certain points of the movie kind of like He's showing up and trailing how he hassling him. He's a weak bookie. Yeah, and he shows up and he looks like he's with his twin brother You bring her heavy with you. I I knew that he had a brother But I didn't know what his brother looked like because his brother and him once jammed out with Johnny Ramon And uh, he was very good friends with Johnny Ramon, which or at least they lived in the same building in Chelsea or something He told us a story and it was like because he can't be anything, but sincere Mitchell

You know, this thing it's unbelievable, but he we were talking about Johnny Ramon. He's like, yeah when he died it was really Powerful to him and then I think you asked him if he went to the funeral and he goes no, I didn't I'm like, well, why not? And he's like Because I loved him And it was like it was the most cadence to his voice where everything has a question mark on the end of it Yeah, like where you don't know if you're look if he's look and that's unsure of himself He is so we weirdly enough now like In the past few months or whatever people you show up. We show up show up to like whatever a screen or something sandlers

There are there's people who collect autographs, right? They want us to sign these things. I don't know why but they One of the guys I'm signing this thing and he says to me I love that you put Mitch in this and I was like What oh, yeah, and he goes Mitch would probably be here if he wasn't in the film right now I asked for an autograph I said we all know Mitch wouldn't be at this event Well, because Mitch is a is one of the leading autograph collectors in New York in the tri-state area to me. Yeah, no no

Yes, but like he has the best stories of all time about some legendary rockers Rod Stewart. Yeah, nightmare's about No, there's okay. Let me wait. No, I'm not joking. Paul McCartney broke his eardrum. Well, so basically The best I'm not joking. So why does why does Rod Stewart have nightmare? I'll explain but so first off so I'm signing and then so he said Mitchell says hi and to me that was the most incredible thing Was that here? We are at this this fancy event and I like we have this direct connection with this Whole other subculture, you know, it was unbelievable And but Mitchell told me once I ran into him as he was leaving a Rod Stewart thing and I guess he had Rod Stewart had asked him he he brought like a bunch of things to get signed because he loves Rod Stewart

Rod Stewart's the bet. I actually think he's the best. He looks like Rod Stewart's one of the greatest king. So So anyway, so then he so he asked him to sign by the way Dylan made the most money ever off of That was a courtesy for every young they like said, oh, I guess we should probably run it by Dylan even though it's not the same song just has the same name and then Dylan's like, all right, give me 50 percent. It's nothing like my song and it was like the biggest hit ever for So anyway, so he asked Rod to sign one thing and he did it and he's like and then I asked him to sign another and he did and so he's like and then

He signed like seven more things for me. I'm like, oh, that's great. He goes, but he then he said, okay That's enough to me to Mitchell and he's I said, oh, that's that's nice. He goes Is it? I said it is he goes Well, I think it's kind of mean that he didn't want to sign more And I was just like, what do you mean by that? And he was so but he really did want him to sign Everything and it's like, okay. This he really does care about this stuff But a lot of a lot of our collectors sell a lot of their work. Mitch. No, he collects it. He actually collects

That's that's respectful. And he's coming and reselling it. That's very people do that I mean, I I saw at the this national border view event. This guy had uh Full good fellas like print out really nicely print out. I was really admired He had so many signatures on there. He basically the entire casting crew The only person he was missing was Pesci and Pesci was there that night So he was like, I got to get Pesci. So I saw it. I was like, that's amazing And he goes, yeah, I said, who you waiting for? He goes Pesci. I was like, he's not in there

He's like, oh damn and and I took a picture of it. I have the picture because I want it I was like, are you selling that? He goes not going to sell this one. This one's for me because it is it is an industry for sure but um, Paul McCartney Paul McCartney's story is I told Mitch. I was like, you pushed it on that one. He He got wanted these autographs. It was very soon after uh, Paul McCartney, Linda McCartney died and he wanted this He wanted Paul to sign something that she had. It was it was a picture of her He pushed it. You know, this guy's dealing. He's dealing with death in his own way. He's still a beetle. You know what I mean? And he pushed it. He pushed it

screamed and he said go away and screamed in his ear and I and I If you've ever spent time with Mitch Hit the idea of him being confronted in that way. I can't help but but chuckle because He's not like a he's not a scared person So I could just imagine him taking it and then asking for the autograph You know what I mean? Like he's not fazed by these things He has his George Harrison story is great. He's got a lot of really really really great stories and and his brother

He showed up. We really wanted him to play that part. We wrote that part for him for Mitchell for Mitchell And and our casting director who we work with a lot. Her name is Jennifer Vendetti and she's amazing She does documentaries. She wasn't sold on him. She was like, I don't know I don't know if he could do is and on this movie is a bigger movie for us So we had to like all those casting decisions We had to vet and like come up with this come we had a we have a tape we had a super document We had to literally have a tape with then there not it wasn't an audition. It was like an acting Portrayal on some sort of tape to show to be like this guy can do it

And it was a it was a super document too. It was like Scott Rudin You gotta this guy his biggest credit might be that Paul McCartney broke his ear drum But he's the only guy who can play this part and this is why and and and so in the process in the rehearsal in the audition process a lot of actors went for that role too and he showed up with his brother and Jen was like who's that guy and he's like, oh my brother stewart wanted to know if he could maybe Audition for something as well. There's a job, you know, like so they uh, they they they're like, okay

Yes, they sent me a picture like do you want I was like put him in this put him in the audition Let's just see what he does and you can do anything. He just stood there behind him and was a presence That's was his whole and they put they had like a weird and we go back and change the script because of it Now stewart when I met him for the first time. I didn't know what stewart looked at I didn't realize they looked so similar And he says to me he's like, oh, I make music so like, okay cool He's like, I actually gonna record some music for the movie if you don't Uh, if you don't mind I was like, I don't mind at all

And he showed up on set stewart and he went up to ronnie ronnie's the co-writer co-editor and he goes He goes, uh, what's your title on this and ronnie's like that. He's like drink coffee and he goes Oh, I wrote the movie with josh and benny and I'm editing the movie. So you're an editor, huh? And he's like, yeah, he's like you got any uh, you got any say with the music and uh, ronnie's like Well, josh and benny they usually pick that music sometimes that he's like, why what's it? He's like made some music for the movie and he's like, oh cool He's like, he's like, uh, what do I gotta do to get you to put in a word for me? And ronnie's like, I don't know just give me the disc and I'll take a listen to it He recorded well, I do it on and it I then ran into stewart that day also

And he's like, oh, so you're gonna put my music in the movie. I talked to ronnie. He said you're gonna do it And then I was like, well, we don't know and he goes It has the same name And I was like, what do you mean? And it because it was called the track titles. He never had the script But the song name was uncut gems. So you can't not use it, you know It's called the same And I was like, he didn't even know that there was a character He didn't know there was a character named julia in the movie, but there was a track named julia j-e-w-e-l-i-a

That's a genius. First of all, wait, we're laughing. No the music's amazing. Yes So he's like rcv more. It's amazing. Oh my god. How did rcv more? Do you know who that is? He's like a Okay, he's like a low-fi. It's got this weird 60s vibes. We're like, oh my god. There's all this instrumentation You're like, when and where did he record this? It's unreal and it's just like again He's just like the track hiding what you wouldn't expect it to be like this But then you're just like, oh my god, this is insane. All right, you guys want to hear it? Yeah. Yeah, I want that It's the uncut gems It's like so like there's a guy with a lot of problems

That's great, but I'm just like Johnny and Joe Emerson. That would have been giving the movie a very different feel very different You have to have said it in california. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. We have a company I want to actually release. I want to do a video on or release the album I think there's all the songs. They're all kind of the same, but they're all they all have a great vibe. So That's Mitch and his brother, but I want to talk about like, you know, to me one of the One of my many favorite things about the movie is that basically Like half the cast are like non-professional actors They're like the first time in a movie or like playing themselves whether it's garnet

but the first one I want to talk about is the guy who when I first saw the trailer for the movie I stood up and saluted my laptop when it happened and I'm talking, of course, about the god Mike Francesa So how how did it come about that you were like, I got to have Mike Francesa in this movie? So originally we wanted for that role A real bookie that we know Who we put we put bets in with particular Sebastian Bermaclard was the producer. He that's his bookie His name I was almost at his name There's a similarity. He um, he's amazing very personable

We met with him a bunch about, you know, certain crazy degenerate gamblers take issue with some of the bets in the movie They're like that you would never but I know a handful of bookies who would take that action Because it's the dumbest fucking bet I've ever heard in the in the interquote Francesa. So when This bookie said I have a business to run. I'm not gonna appear in your movie for A SAG major rate like are you kidding me? I'm give up my entire identity in mind the The anonymity that I have in the business. No, get out of here. Go kick rocks. So I was just like, all right

So we can't get him Who who the first thing that popped in my mind was Francesa just He's just it. He was the first person I I just thought he they resembled one another and you're making a movie about uh, uh, Uh, new york sports and new york sports degenerate I I can't tell you how many times I've listened to the mic show. Oh, yeah, and just he's not even sometimes Sometimes he's on it. Sometimes he's not on it. Sometimes he's just like the famous scooper. He totally falls asleep Yeah, I mean you have to remember like I mean you guys it's different like you don't have every single day

You don't have to oh, I don't it's yeah, imagine that's a grind hours a day It's a grind and also he's not used to people filming these things like You know, he's used to going into the fan and sitting there and rolling through an hour That diet coke put those exactly Yeah And um, we met with him We like sent out like the olive we sent out the the kite and we're like, do you want to be part of He immediately came back to us and was like, yes, we're like, whoa, he's like, I want to have lunch first

We had lunch with him at an Italian restaurant. I was classic and he was like a mob boss immediately He certain people they can't help But be themselves and those are the people you want to work with He in particular All of a sudden he might I thought he was going to go to the kitchen and critique the food at one point he he is such a uh Big personality

Uh, and sometimes you're talking to him. He's doing his right right right. You're like, are you paying attention? And he is oh, and then he gets bad intent perfect. Yeah, bad loot telling him direction You're like, I don't know if this is Entering or anything and then he would just nail he was a very easy to work with took direction very well We basically said to him treat treat Howard like you would treat a caller Yeah, we said treat Howard like you want to like one of the callers you hate the most easy. I got it He he a big inspiration I think a big reasoning from doing the movie is that

Bad lieutenant the voice on the radio and bad lieutenant is Chris Russo as mad dog Yeah, and I think he was a little bit upset about Yes He goes it's gonna be my face It's a total standoff, you know, and then like he I love he loves the movie I really I enjoy talking in my text with him still and it's a yeah bad bad lieutenant It's chris russo is sort of like the the greek chorus like the voice of god as as far as he kind tells life Just deteriorates more and more able for actually just saw gems for the first time

and uh, we put him in one of our first films as a mugger uh as a cd huxter And I had heard that he saw the movie, but I didn't hear from him. I thought it was weird and abel's doing great right now Uh, I don't know if you guys are fans of able for ours, but he's uh his reaction I gotta read one. I gotta read it. It's I gotta read to you. It was I'll read just a portion because Because he said He was one he wanted to be a jew his whole life. I didn't know that Um grass is always greener from tally into jew Yeah, well everyone. I mean there should just be like one day a year where we all switch

Trust me. I've used that a lot. I'm like, oh, I'm italian, you know like When I was living in harlem. I remember um, I was I was muslim. That's just what I was Um, and it's all good. Ah salamu alaykum. Um, it's shalom the same shit. Uh Here he goes. He told me he goes here goes. I was reminded He goes having garnet in the film was off the hook the way he speaks. Cool incredible Uh, ghost show whole project was worth waiting and things are meant to be are meant to be having garnet in the film Was also off the hook reminded me that I wanted to do a shoot at shea stadium. I've know this story This is a true story about bad lieutenant. I wanted to do a shoot at shea stadium of harvey

Standing behind the dugout watching strawberry walk away from the batter's box after striking out Obviously, I couldn't pull it off right but I can go on and on just keep the full president Then he just goes he that would have been that would have been amazing Uh, he actually said something about the ending that I really think is so funny to hear from able I don't want to spoil it. If anyone we can spoil we're gonna we'll put a spoiler alert I even the spoiler because I hated what happened to him. No, don't spoil don't spoil I don't need to spoil we'll beep it. Okay. Yeah No, no, that's not true. Yeah, but I will bleep it just you beep it live

There's two different things I trust him. I trust him. I trust it's just I don't want it Benny just beep it live because what he's got he's gonna like uh I know the trick. No, we're gonna have we're gonna You're come on. I want to tell them. Okay, because I think it's yeah No, we're gonna have chris say that you just said something really racist Fine. All right. Fine. The only thing I hated was Was that he that was the It was like killing santa claus or mickey mouse

I Love Killed so many of his characters Santa claus and mickey mouse are the two Things you think of right? I love it. But I love that and but but I know that there was a thing that he wanted to do in in bad lieutenant also is that he wanted to do He wanted kytel's character to use his badge to get on to the field and try to Juice the game. Oh fuck up the games the mess. Yeah, which is amazing and that movie

You know worked with the m. I didn't them. They didn't have sanctioned from the ml But obviously we did fair use so we just made the movie But uh anyway mad dog chris. Yeah, my friend says it So like it bed lieutenant like uses a a fictional Mets Dodgers Playoff series as like the backdrop to the Disintegration of harby kytel's life and then he and then it's also a gambling narrative And that he keeps betting against the Mets over and over again as they pull off a miraculous fork

You come from behind for game, you know winning streak to take the series Um In this film don't don't forget to mention zoe london that film. Yeah, I think she wrote the movie with him And that's crazy scene where he's They're listening. They like basically literally shoot Yeah Um, but so so for yeah for your for your guys like uh, you you you used like a real nba playoff seasons Like the you use the fair use like the the the clips of basketball that you're watching in the film

Was a real series and it like follows a narrative where like garnet It's got a good game an off game and then a great game, right? Like well, how did you choose like that series more importantly like, you know, garnet How did you like come upon like when you're writing this movie making garnet like really wasn't a long time It was a marsatomire We started in 2010 took 10 years to make this movie started in 2010 and it was a it was centering around a nicks run Where in a marsatomire who's jewish? Uh had a legendary run keeping it in the family

Exactly, but like but think about it that way he the black jewish thing Was a much bigger part of the movie The ethiopian jewish tribe was bigger part of the movie when it was a marsatomire By the way, I saw I saw the movie with cow my friend who's ethiopian And he was just like from the beginning. No one talks about the israelites We had no literally no idea that that was going to be in there So he's like, oh, I'm so into this and he's like, I don't this he didn't know about the beta israelites. Yes. Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah No, there's a there's a big jewish population in ethiopia. Yeah, uh, he gets the facebook ads all the time

Amazing amare so we wrote it around amare Time this movie took so long to make Uh, we had a shabbat dinner at amare's house at one point with 2010 amare 2011 amare 2012 amare It was just moving along and then at one point we tried we did a table read in la and he came and was a part of it And then some way we tried updating it. We did we made it more contemporary And it was going to be joel mb who's a player in the 76ers who is from cameroon So the african element was about like reclaiming this thing that was taken from african and be empowered via that Then when the schedule got pushed into the season, we couldn't use an active player

Joel's manager jenny sacks actually appears as kevin's manager in the movie. So good did come of it We also got to go to some sixers games, which was sick and joel's amazing and his humor also helped steer the movie that script So when we had no active we couldn't use an active player. We had to go back to drawing board amare wouldn't shave his dreads Uh to match the games we needed to use So and and the weekend is now a big part of the movie too. So we are limited. We can't go earlier than 2012 So now we're like, okay, it's a lot of it's a very small All that bullseye literally it would have been any game sequence that was good bad good at any moment during garnet's career from 2000

Well, we didn't know it was going yet. Yeah, but for sure. Yes, then one with a couple of players and originally garnet I'm a nix fan. I hate him so much. I didn't even want him near the movie Honestly, I was just like I saw his name on the list and I was like as a nix fan I was like, I hate him. I don't want him in the movie and like you got to talk to him I was like fine. I'll talk to him and the first thing I said to him was I hate your fucking guts And he really appreciated that and then you realize he's a big wrestling fan. Well, yeah, that's his that's his performance That's what I was so taken with by the choice to go with garnet like even like as a nix fan or someone like follow the NBA How could you not hate garnet unless you're a Celtics fan?

But at the same time I always kind of liked him because he was such he's always such a good heel He's such a good bad guy. He knows and he loves being there And and when you talk to him you realize that's it like he's doing that on purpose You know, okay, this guy is an actor, you know in some way shape or form But then it was like, okay, when it's also the best storyteller ever. I'm I'm just happy in a weird way It's like, yes, I don't like that. It's a Celtics thing. I'm just happy. It's not a Brooklyn Nets thing It could have been you know, if he had a great game bad game great game on the Nets that we would be sitting here We would have been using it with the Nets game and I'd be like

Well, New Jersey Nets game would be would be kind of awesome Yeah, but it would even though I still hated them when they were in New Jersey, so it would have been a Yes, we're not we're not doing a Brooklyn Nets movie. And so that's why it's like, okay at least even though it's Celtics, you're not going to censor your film around the the dynamic exciting Barclays The rust did not No, thank you The the Prokhorov the Russian the Putin's fucking He somehow infiltrated the NBA

Um, no the he just sold the team. Yeah. No Prokhorov did Don't shoot me Prokhorov But the they I have a crazy story to tell you guys about Russian spying That uh, I can't go into well that was It's but it's next level it was next level and it was like someone was so Paranoid about it. They made the phones leave the room and it was like such as for anyway I'll get into it another time, but but uh, uh garnet We looked at the games we locked out into falling into a playoff series

That was just it happened over Passover. It was like it was it had to be a northeast series had to be northeast games We talked we actually at one point We had these agents and they were like you got to write up the movie write up that character give it to kobi kobi wants to act I was like who wants to act, right? I was like la laker movie kobi. I don't buy him ever in a jewelry store I just don't buy it You know, so like he we ended up I ended up doing it I like watched so many kobi interviews trying to understand who he was as a person It was a stretch and then like we're gonna do it around his 61 point game at the garden

And uh, I wrote it took me two weeks to do it and then they're like, oh There were bothers and I was like it takes me time to do this and eventually I was like, all right I finished here. Let's send it to kobi tomorrow. They're like kobi doesn't want to act We heard he only wants to direct so we're not gonna send it to him People don't understand people the concept of work to some people Is so foreign like they don't understand that like things people have to do it You know what I mean? It's like you push a button and it gets done that that mentality is dangerous so, you know, uh, we work for like the like the the sports aspect of it and and garnet like you know, even playing himself is

Phenomenal in the movie is amazing really really good and people are like you can say oh, he's playing himself But like no, it's not just so easy to do. It's also like he those are those are not real situations He's all right. He has to fiction a lot He has to put his real self in a fake situation and make it feel real That is the hardest thing you could ever do our one of the producers got rude and said, you know, he knows We're all no one's saying the obvious thing which is If this guy can't do the scene where he's the whole movie doesn't work the movie doesn't work No one wants to say that out loud. It's so scott will be like

Can he act and you will have to talk about what does that mean to act and But then there's also there has to be we're not going to screen test this guy's not going to do an audition It's not there has to be a confidence on our part to be like it will work That's a game know it will work and then of course it's like When you are on set and he's just killing it and everybody's like what is going on This guy is like knocking it out of the park But when you think about that really what that is Where the entire production is resting on hit that on a five second moment in the movie. Yeah, it's kind of scary

That's like I don't even think about that opening tip is going to go By the way, I like that scene was I felt more stress and anxiety at that tip off and I've had watching a movie You know, you know, it's years What's actually amazing is that that sequence actually is much longer Like we actually have him going over every point the entire game on film The whole game sandler did the whole game every point every rebound He looked over at the guys and counted it off and so much so that it's like I wish that there was like a function You know, you'd like the the you could do the translation on your on your tv

Just hit like the howard function on a game and just go over every replay and like through his brain But yeah, that sequence is just like sandler's unbelievable That's why we wanted to work on this because we knew that he's a fan He's going to be able to add things that you wouldn't even know and just yeah that and also that yeah It's a playoff game game seven, you know, like literally it was like it was a gift There's so much tension and I knew how those games ended you're a Celtic fan No, I'm you're gonna. You're gonna hate me. I'm a Pacers fan. Yeah. Oh my god. Hey smiths Reggie Miller. Oh

Reggie Smiller, you just my childhood Reggie Miller. Listen, you guys crushed us, but I know and you're still somehow good right now I don't understand like you can't you never go away. This is really and larry bird and donnie. Well, I love donnie wash when he's in the name The Pacers Indiana, I know the Pacers Is rick smiths for some reason bothered me more than reggie miller rick smiths was just kind of like There's something about a rick with a k with that skull shape. Yes smiths. Yes. It seems like there's bad stuff going on Yeah, yeah, he is. Yeah. I don't mean to judge, but you know what I mean smiths I also just hated him. Well, that was amazing. Most good jimmy smiths is good though. Most nicks fans hate reggie miller

I do. I mean he taunted us, but you have to you have to admire the skill. He was very good Yeah, well charo was good too, sister. Oh, yeah. No, she she was better than I ever had. That's what they say people say that No, she was yeah So there's like a movie for like the like the Have it is said in like the word. Yeah, the world of sports and gambling we've covered that but like You know a huge part of the movie is about the new york city diamond district Yes And like you know the access to you guys there and again the non professional actors

The user people like who are just part of that world who are in the movie one of my favorites I told you like my my favorite character in the whole movie or is the guy that he pawns garnets ronnie danger field Look and do it. Yeah. He's like like the haggling god marshal. Yeah. Yeah Because you like marshal greenberg found those guys who are like how you got involved in the movie So marshal and ronnie greenberg who appear in that together like fraternal twins or fraternal twins? Yeah, they're twins older marshal is older by But it's so funny they had even though he's like a couple he has that feeling of the older brother Uh, so Todd vopio who's this guy who's a jeweler in the diamond district who's very much a

Howard guy from Howard beach. Actually, so he's like a Howard guy. He um, Sandler he trailed sandler trailed him Uh, almost exclusively He trailed a couple other people but he spent a lot of time with Todd because we all we all were very inspired by Todd Todd was supposed to originally be that part Uh, and it was a one character thing that we wrote and we just loved Todd We wanted to be in the movie and and he's a great haggler too He's the guy who shows up in the beginning comes out the door in the hallway and he looked the fuck is going on out here

And during the fight. Yeah. Yeah, just like back here He he was supposed to be in it and we had already cast ronnie though greenberg. You know, we had already cast his brother Oh, and something else. We already cast his brother in the movie. So that was like we had he was we were excited He's amazing and that was just something that was in the books We went up to Todd's office with sand. No, no without sandler and we just and ronnie was there like greenberg And we opened the norm like marshall was sitting there. Who's the one who you love is this? You know, and I'm a huge ronnie danger field fan like Harvey fight like that voice Like yeah, but I saw marshall sitting there and I fell in love like immediately like I really fell in love with him

He looked at me like what is this guy want for me? And I was like, I think I even called him Rodney by accident and and uh, and he was just I was like He needs to be in our movie immediately and I was just talking to him and his brother is a Ronnie went to film school actually with Darius Contra or cinematographer, which is a weird-ass coincidence And so Ronnie anyone who's interested in film we have a good in with someone who's not there like I don't want to be a part of that nonsense, so Rodney marshall was tough to convince and

when Todd this epic very Howard in the Howard dinian Event happened in Todd's real life the night before we were shooting or two nights before we were shooting that scene in the diamond district That you were talking about Something happened. He ended up in the hospital and he broke both his elbows and and It was he's a miracle. He's alive Todd and it's a miracle how he I really don't know how he is alive Uh, but I'm thank god he is and he said to me He we couldn't get him and he had Garnett's championship ring

He was embellishing it a little bit making it a little bit more fancy Using a couple real emeralds a couple real diamonds That was his job. He was also working with the props department. He disappeared. We couldn't find him And uh, he had the ring. He had a couple of other pieces too So we were all freaking out like we have no Todd. We have no actor and we have no Pete we have no championship ring We end up getting in touch with the right person. He's in the hospital. We get the ring back obviously can't shoot with him

And and I had to write this thing like hey, I didn't want anyone to think that We were casting people who are ending up in the hospital in any way So I had to like cover it up. There was a family thing and something happened car accident And um, you know, it was an accident. It's not like it wasn't but then it was it's not like it was But then we had to get we asked Ronnie where I got it. We need you to we needed him to convince Marshall to do it Ronnie and Marshall were good friends with Todd. So that's how I ended up finding out about this accident that Todd had So I was like, oh, no, and he felt really bad. So I was like, you know what? I I want you to play the part

But I want it to be you and your brother and he's like, I don't know if Marshall's gonna want to do it I was like, you gotta convince him. You gotta convince him And he's like, oh, I was like, I was like, this is how much it pays. He's like it's paid well So he's like, you know, and it's only going to be six hours of your day or end of being a full 12 hours But Just please please please you could do it together. You could do it together We shot the first scene with Ronnie and Marshall Then the second scene, you know later in the movie when he goes back to get the ring

We were under a time constraint and we actually couldn't cover three characters So we had to cut it. We had to cut one person. We had to get Marshall So naturally I go up to Marshall and like listen This next scene we're actually gonna ask you to do it alone. It's not without Ronnie and he's very tied to his brother And he's like he pulled me aside. He goes he's like, you know this and we're like basically like I'm not doing this if Ronnie isn't okay with it It's just like because it was like his part was getting cut down. He also knew Ronnie cared about movies Yes, he's like, I don't want to take this is not my thing. This is his thing

I'm not gonna do this if he's not okay with it. I'm just letting you know that and I was like I totally respect that and I understand it because I would be the same way So we instinctively wrote a new scene for Ronnie. Yes, which ended up cutting not on purpose It wasn't his fault. It was like literally we tried to shoot in the district before we were ready So literally there were hundreds of people in front of the camera. They couldn't use any of the footage. It was disaster Anyway, so we shot that scene and and Marshall Improvised the greatest line in the movie booby

Yeah, because I was just gonna bring that because we said to he's like do I care about this guy? Yes, you do care. You've known him forever. He's like, okay, and this isn't the first time you've seen him with scars on his face Yeah, and and yeah, so the scene sort of like the end of the movie where they they trade rings and and Marshall says to howie. He goes booby. Are you okay? Yeah, it's going on. He says booby. What's going on? What's going on and just that moment of concern and and warmth Yeah outside of the haggling or all the bullshit and stuff like that It was almost like I interpreted that as like Marshall was like a vision of like what how he could be or turn into without all of the

For sure and insanity. It's like and it's like it's one of the warmest exchange. You know what else is great about it Is he haggled the shit out of him? Oh, he got he got the ring. He's like you're not gonna have a third ring I'm getting the extra percent. I don't know how much that next ring means to me Well, something's going on in his life. There's you know, what's crazy about this Marshall's Yeah The thing that's amazing about that moment is like that was like the second day we were shooting and sandler is like So prepared for this part

but now he's going in and he's acting opposite real jewelers and this whole time he's like pretending You know in his mind. I'm pretending to be Howard. I'm pretending to be a jeweler But when he was going up against those two You could see sandler was really like psyching himself up like he was gonna bring it because now I have to go in and prove myself To these real jewelers and I got to be real also and then on the other side you have these two guys They have to bring it and act opposite Adam sandler So you have this cool kind of incredible alchemy that happens Just because you're using first-time actors in that moment

But I remember there's just like a one of the things that can only really happen with Somebody who's like acting for the first time is like when we said to to Marshall like, okay This is we want you to make it. We want you to be really fast You want to like really like a motor almost like a borscht belt routine back and forth back and forth when you're going through this Haggling so you got to really make it quick and so he's like, okay. Okay. I got it So when he does the scene he gets to the moment where he has to do the haggling goes Okay, make it quick and then he just like that's like he took what we told him He literally took the direction make it quick and then it became one of the best

As part of his dialogue, which is incredible um So yeah, I got like another really fun part about like seeing this movie and then discovering all of these Uh non-professional actors and like discovering their lives as they like as they exist now through instagram And one of the funniest ones is that is uh, the other guy who's like sort of starts out as uh, uh Sandler sort of protege and his julio shot avi. Oh, yeah avi the jeweler. Yes. Yes. Yes. Oh, sorry. Yeah Yep, that's why you say avi because there was an avi in the script at one point But yes, you're talking about maxude tracks tracks nyc. Yes. So he's he's the best

I just I just found his instagram, which is amazing. I don't know if you guys saw this But it's like he's doing like his his jewelry like almost like a qvc jewelry presentation on instagram And he just starts talking about the kaseem sulemani assassination And he goes he's going here. He's like he's in front of like he's like gold ropes on like a mannequin He's like, yeah, I'm gonna tell you about this shit. I don't know what you heard about like this stuff This sulemani guy like I don't know what the fuck the news is telling you about this bullshit But as far as I gotta know sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do. Anyway, what's really important is gold ropes I got for you here. It's like this guy blew up. But you know what?

This blew up too, the gold. You know what's educational, you know what's educational about it Is the way he wraps it in he's basically saying because his the cool thing that maxude does with all of his videos Is he's educating people and people that are in the diamonds don't really like it that much He's educating people. So he's basically giving that preamble about the assassination to let you know Yeah, to let you know that that the price of gold went up. Yeah, and he's like the chains went up connected Yeah, he's all about like to him. It's it's all about yeah by jewelry He did what you need to do for your own when things calm down He's like I just lost $400 on this piece of gold and he like he's literally showing the connection between it all

But yeah, he's he's maxude is great. He did we Auditioned almost Half of the diamond district for that role and that was a very coveted role amongst jewelers And when we went with maxude, there was a lot of people were upset about it, you know, because there were people who are much Can say quote unquote bigger jewelers than him Uh, and they thought they deserved that part just because of the pedigree that they have in the diamond district maxude In his audition

Just he he would write these monologues to come in and do and like we knew there's that monologue seen when he's looking through the fish He just is that guy, you know, you just believe and he is the yasty and when he gets angry he like There's a level there's like a tone to his voice and he holds his breath There's like a so there's so many things that he's doing that are just you can't make that up, you know, and he's he's he's awesome so Finally of the of these these heroes talk about i'm talking about the finally Another absolute king and the best in this movie wane diamond. Yeah The birdies you find this and again, and then you i've discovered i follow him on instagram now

Smash that follow button This guy is living his best life. Yes He is incredible how and like he's a guy who really did make all his money in the garment district just a little bit Across town. Yes. He wane diamond Sebastian was at dinner He the way wane also embellishes the stories are unbelievable once he told one person knew us since we were 10 That's what you gotta love about wane everything is a hundred times a hundred, you know what i mean He he uh, he was at a restaurant

He's the loudest guy at the restaurant and uh sebo was just like that's fucking guys amazing So he immediately struck up the conversation with him starts at how'd you make your money? He's like oh myer landski immediately gangster Quick to say that too, you know And and then i did a the same short-lived podcast that i had with sebo We did one with wane and uh, it was it was it was awesome

It was a lot it was awesome And at one point we were trying to get him to pay for the movie and we were we were gonna be like Maybe we'll make it you'll be howard, you know, like We were like we couldn't get sand there. We were trying that was it was an attempt Uh, and it was just someone we just kept in the back pocket and we would start writing for him and uh he in the helicopter sequence was

Had i was me the camera we couldn't fit many was it was me and the camera person and he was petrified of flying wane petrified So the whole time i thought he was gonna piss himself and and uh, i don't like being one either So we're in there and he it was basically we wrote some dialogue And i was like, let's just go off on it I was like just basically be the most ostentatious Garish person you can imagine I was like, well, I could be the best at that

I was like So we got up in there and there's a whole cut thing and you can't hear any of the dialogue because it was Our sound person kind of fucked up that day. Uh, it wasn't benny, uh, and um But it was all about he was like she was she's looking out the window He goes look at that traffic down there. Look at this is the best You know what? I actually have my own helicopter He goes But I like to do this because I get to meet people so I get I let the guy stay in the hangar

He goes, uh, this is better. You get to meet the interesting people like yourself. You're like an artist What are you an artist and she's like, no, i'm not an artist. He's like, what are you doing? He's like, you got a boyfriend. She keeps looking at him. He goes, what are you looking at? He goes, look at those houses They're so small. How can you live in a house that small? Totally normal houses And then he goes he goes he goes me me immediately. He's like me I don't know what I got all this money. I don't know what to do with it I got I got I just bought a 25 million dollar apartment in Tribeca. He goes

That's so many rooms. I haven't even seen the rooms yet. He goes my wife. She's just she's got a 200-room house in the in Greenwich, Connecticut. I don't even want to step foot in it anymore You know, it's just like and then like when he has like he's like, oh, I got to get showered He goes on this whole other tangent. That's none of the movies. I'm the best at shower Hey, you gotta see the way I shower. Oh my god. The way I wash. It's the cleanest you'll ever get He goes when I take a shot him when I take a shower. No part of me is dirty I'm the best of it. No one washes better than me And then in the actually we wrote in the script. It says that he was nude

And when he's blow dry, I got nothing against that and then he goes I was like, I was like, dude, you're being the classic creepy me too, dude Like you have this is it your door's open. You're showing her your naked like you're trying to break the boundary And he goes, I'm okay with doing the nudity. I don't care about that. I look great nude He goes, but I look the best in a towel He goes, no one looks better than me in a towel. He's right. Yeah He really does this is making me This is making me realize something for the first time that there is

I mean this may be part of the social fabric of america But there is some sort of ancient liars link between like older jewish men and like contemporary like Ohio pill head guy Exact same type of fucking lies Exact same type. It's the exact same type of shit. I don't even know the best at showering Like that's really, you know, like fucking pick one. Is that, you know, 75 year old jewish man from the kermit district Or a guy from fucking columbus who licks opana residue off of t-shirts But you know what? I believe that he's the best at showering. Yeah, he probably is

This is perfect midwestern jewish synthesis here. Now you get your entire identity. It's having a galaxy brain moment Exactly Well, uh, we got to wrap it up here. So I guess I'll just finally conclude by uh last but not least, um Julia fox you think she would like hang out with us sometime Julia is an amazing. I did one of those podcasts with her too. Julia is a great. You should have her on the show She's amazing. I think we could do that. She's Yeah, you should she's she's vagosian and then On

Is amazing? I talk greatest one of my favorite movies. He's the fucking I Agree with you. I agree with you. He's got that same fucking energy. He's still cool. He still looks amazing He's so menacing We saw LA Gould at like the the premiere He came to see the movie and like california split is one of like oh my god. Yeah, and I was like, oh my god And I was like, I was like, did you see it all out? Like I would say, did you see it all out there?

Like the, he goes, I saw it all. He's like, and I felt it all. I was like, this is the best. So I was like. And Elliot Gould, by the way, has a great collection of blown glass that he's blown. Of course. But they're like, what is that?

He's that guy. Everything's an asteroid. It's awesome. Yeah. No, like the one profile. But you should have Eric and Julia. Yeah. The one profile that we had on that didn't run on us

because we were in LA and they were asking us what our favorite LA movie was. And I was so happy. It didn't run. Cause we were all on edibles. And I went into like a three minute monologue about Elliot Gould and Juan Caballi or whatever. But no, we're going to see him has the same energy.

He's the Armenian Elliot Gould. He was so good. I would have said Waste Deep during the game. Interesting. I've never seen Waste Deep. So, I don't think I have either. I was just thinking that is like out there, LA movie. So yeah.

I'll close by saving myself from embarrassing myself further. With Julia Fox by just saying, shout out to Catherine who did, I think, coin that this is the year of Bogosian. Oh yeah. Yes. Absolutely. Oh yeah.

Between succession and then. Bogosian is back baby. King. He gave us. He trusted us. And it was like, it was amazing. So cool. Thank you guys.

I just got to say. Thank you for coming on. Josh and Benny Softy. Thank you so much. Thanks for having us. Thank you so much. Genuinely for uncut gems. Absolutely.

Amazing. Thank you guys. Appreciate that. And if you listen to this and haven't seen it yet, what the fuck is wrong with you? You're going to lower than a pig. Really thick. Thanks so much.

Fucking idiot. Exactly. Fucking idiot. Cheers. Thanks so much. I still believe in your lies. I just don't care what you say in your life. Baby, I'll always be by your side

Don't lose me, waiting for you to come back