Chapo Trap House - 404 - Mother Mother Please! (3/23/20)

Episode Date: March 24, 2020

Alright so we're now all officially remote, so we're back to Chapo season 1 style recording. We try to game out how the various stakeholders in our government will try to balance human lives against keeping the economy humming along, as well as discuss the various challenges and potential opportunities that come from social distancing and, like, just not going to work can present. Also, some movie recommendations.

And in addition to that, in addition to that, we have to make sure that we are in a position that we are, well, let me go in a second, that's for sure, for nothing. Okay, hello everybody, it's Choppo, greeting from, I don't know, what is it, day seven or eight of quarantine here. This is an episode we are bringing to you, observing full protocol, this is all done by remote. But you know, the thing is, we were born in social distance, and we will continue now on in the same format. This is a little different. This is old school Choppo recording over a group chat, each recording our own audio, but we are happy to be here with you. It's me, Matt and Amber with you today. And boy, oh boy, is there a lot to talk about. Where would you guys like to begin? How about Joe Biden is dead. Joe Biden's. Okay, he's probably not dead.

But if that video is actually current, and he just really likes that shirt, he looks like shit. So there's a couple, yeah, a couple, a couple different theories about this. I'm referring to after, what is it, like, almost a week of being completely MIA, Joe Biden's campaign was assuring everyone that, you know, he'd been taking calls for, you know, seven, eight hours a day, and that they were working on basically building a podcast studio for him in his apartment, or house rather. Loser. So yeah. The question is, Joe Biden came out with a, I don't know, a web stream today that may or may not be actually today. Competing theories about that out there. But I think we can safely say, Chris, queue up that, queue up that Bauhaus. Joe Biden is dead. Joe Biden is dead. Joe Biden is dead. You know, if he's not, he might as well be. You know, I mean, did you guys watch the video today of him, like, losing the teleprompter and just sort of, I mean, he's clipping. Yeah. He's clipping badly. He looked really sharp, I thought. It looked like something they recorded. First of all, he is wearing the same, I hate even like, delving into this, but like, it looks like something they recorded a while ago because of an outfit overlap. I mean, I wear the same thing every day too, so I understand. But also, like, it looks like something they left on the cutting room floor a few days ago because they're like, this looks like shit.

And now they're like panicking and being like, okay, well, we have to put something out. There's also some speculation that he's in front of a green screen. And I just say that. I mean, ultimately, it doesn't really matter because he looks and sounds like shit on the video that they've spent a week prepping to create. I mean, like, they're cramming for a week to figure out how to go on Instagram live, basically. And then when he finally did it, it was just even worse than the last one. I mean, he's glitching all over the fucking, he's clipping through the goddamn floor of his den. Well, I mean, they won. So who's really owned out of this whole thing? They won what?

They got this decrepit old fuck out there and it worked. I don't know, man. Give him a minute. I do not have a totally sure faith in Joe Biden's. Oh, sure. But that doesn't mean that doesn't mean Bernie is going to be the nominee. That's why they're fluffing up Cuomo for him to step in. I don't know how they'll do it, but they'll do it somehow. I don't know. I literally don't know what's going on. Like, I don't, I don't think actually at this point anyone can say what's going on,

which is also why I don't want to go too far down the Biden is dead, you know, conspiracy theories, even though he most certainly is dead, just because like, I have no idea what's going on. I literally have no idea what's going on. Also, I'm delirious from social isolation. I just want to read a little bit from the ABC News article titled, as the coronavirus upends the 2020 race, Biden seeks to offer a positive, a possible presidency preview. And this gets into sort of gingerly dealing with where the hell he's been over the last couple of days. But I just want to read this here. It says, quote, we're almost even reframing how we think about email to focus on engagements, right?

How many people are, you know, signing a petition or taking an action versus like how we're getting concrete dollars. And so it's a bit of reframing of the program to just think about that level of engagement in depth with our supporters, as well as a wide reach that we're trying to get. Flaherty, that's a guy who works on the campaign said. Then it says, whatever the method, the campaign's digital infrastructure and strategy has now become paramount to his success. This is going on the bottom line is that is that everything from providing better access to where I physically live and be able to broadcast from there, as well as our headquarters is underway. We've hired a professional team to do that now, Biden told reporters.

It's a little above my pregrade as to how we do that. But that's desperately what we're trying to do because I want to be in daily or at least, you know, significant contact with the American people and communicate what I would be doing, what I think we should be doing and how we should be doing it. But I promise you that's on the way, hopefully God willing, by Monday. A source with knowledge of the campaign said Biden's team is working on scaling up that infrastructure and dealing with the realities of Biden's Wilmington home. Like the fact that there aren't particularly high ceilings, which can make lighting a challenge.

So, yeah, there we go. It's the low ceilings in his house. I mean, again, when Bernie did his thing, he just put the lamps on the floor. I mean, that was that was excellent lighting. Yeah, that's why he's not going to be the nominee because he doesn't think of things like making sure that your house has proper lighting to do live streams. There we go. So, yeah, and also, like I said, Biden says he's been talking to experts and taking calls seven hours a day. And I go like, again, like if this is what they've spent all this time preparing for, yeah,

it doesn't give you a great deal of confidence that, you know, he will be the candidate after the convention. Let's put it that way. And speaking of which, the guy who everyone's, you know, sort of whispering about now, Andrew Cuomo, our fucking shithead governor of New York State, gave a press conference where he did demonstrate what, you know, actual competent, lucid leadership in the face of a, you know, global pandemic looks like. He gave a press conference yesterday about what New York's doing that included a slide that had saving life and saving the economy balance perfectly on a scale. So it's about 50-50. So I think that's basically where we're going with this.

And, you know, like I know, like for the last week or so, we've all been, you know, thinking and trying to deal with the reality of what it's going to mean for all of us to be, you know, basically in quarantine for a month, two, three months, maybe even half a year. But I think you can basically all throw that out the window now because they are already ramping up. And the Trump administration, I mean the heights of Wall Street and the business sector, Thomas Friedman, the Wall Street Journal editorial page of like Cuomo himself said this today. So it's like, it's not the right wing. It's everyone, everyone on the same side. And the plan that they're settling on is everyone goes back to work in about 15 days. Yeah. It does look like that.

Yeah, a cost-benefit analysis done with human life and, you know, whether or not, I don't know, nooklin does well. I do think it's worth mentioning that we kind of already do that cost-benefit analysis. This is just an escalation of scale. I know that's like a, you know, like, you know, a Bernie hit or whatever. Yeah, I mean, this is something we also do every flu season, every flu season, old people, homeless people, babies die. Like, this is just an escalation of scale. The real kind of, I don't know, the real kind of like test for it is will it give enough people for like boomers to notice, like middle-class boomers to notice? Well, I'm just going to read here.

This is from Lloyd Blankfein tweeted this. Champ. Lloyd. Yesterday, Lloyd Blankfein, you know, former CEO of Goldman Sachs, says extreme measures to flatten the virus curve is sensible for a time. To stretch out the strain on health infrastructure, but crushing the economy, jobs, and morale is also a health issue and beyond. Within a very, within a very few weeks, let those with a lower risk to the disease return to work. And I've seen other people on the sort of, sort of, I guess Silicon Valley Techno-Glibertarian sphere basically just state outright, if 2.5% of America's population dies, is that really too much to bear if, on the other hand, we could consider, you know, hurting the stock market?

Well, which 2% do I personally get to pick them? Well, I mean, they basically are going to pick it through, you know, like it's a de facto selection of like who, you know, needs to go to work and who doesn't. Spain looks like they're doing, Spain is doing death panels right now in terms of if you're over 65, you don't get a ventilator. So we've already, we've already broken the seal on that. So, I mean, it's just the problem with that idea that they have is that the people who are most at risk are the most redoubtable voters and landowners and homeowners. Those are the people who are actually at most risk of dying here. And right now they're benefiting from the fact that those people are still in denial, most of them, about the scale of this thing.

And maybe they're hoping that by the time they start dropping, it'll be too late for them to care. Have you guys noticed, I'm sorry, this is a little off topic and going a little more into the whole kind of, how are you dealing with coronavirus? But have you guys noticed that these people don't seem to like fear death and like, I don't fear death, but like, who cares? But like, the boomers don't... They can't imagine dying. They don't believe they're mortal. Like, I can't, I've talked to multiple people who have like, I can't explain to my parents and grandparents that like, no, actually, you're the risk area. You're the risk category for this.

It's like they don't believe you. They are the protagonists of reality. I mean, how could they ever die? I mean, they've been, they've held on to like center stage and culture and politics for 50 fucking years now. They're not going to let it go. They can't imagine themselves dying. They really can. But it's weird, right?

You've noticed, you've noticed this too. Oh yeah, no. They can't imagine themselves dying. Absolutely. I had a friend talk to his mother who is, you know, approaching 70s and he's like a healthy guy and he like, recently went to London and he's like, I think I have it and you know, he's like, but I just, I'm just staying inside. I didn't know it was going to be that bad. And he was like trying to tell his mom, like you should go out. He's like, and I can't really come see you in case I'm carrying it. I don't feel that sick, but it would be much worse for you.

She's like, oh, no, no, no, I'm, I live a much healthier lifestyle than you. I would be fine. And he's like, do you not understand that you're mortal? And they literally don't get it. If you really asked them, but they think that, well, there's going to be a pill for that someday. Well, yeah, when they're dead. No, they think they're going to get the pill. They think they're never going to die because everything has told them that their entire lives.

They never got the message that they're actually mortal. They got to keep being the summer of love for the past 40 years in their heads anyway. I just think the terrifying thing is the ease with which we have now, like this narrative has shifted. And again, I really need to stress that Cuomo, who's being held up as the same competent vision of leadership in the face of crisis, has said for New York State is basically going to try to go ahead with like a sort of managed risk approach to making people return to work. Like I said, just keeping the stock market going. And that's exactly what Trump, the Federalist, the Wall Street Journal editorial page, blah, blah, blah. Lloyd Blank find what they're all doing now is just to say, as Trump himself said, the cure can't be worse than the sickness.

But what they're actually saying, and like any serious epidemiologist who I've read on this issue says, just send people back to work now if that's what you're going to do because the result is going to be exactly the same thing. Even if it's like after two weeks and like, oh, like I don't have symptoms or whatever. And like everyone just goes back out again. That curve is going to spike up again dramatically. It's just like it's pointless to do this unless you really commit to it. And if we really commit to it, it is going to hurt the economy. And in the absence of like massive government spending to just give people money to backstop stopping the economy, like it's...

Yeah, like they're going to send maybe a couple hundred thousand, maybe a million, maybe more people to their death. And it's just like, you know... I feel like a whole generation of people dying might also be bad for the economy. Well, yeah, exactly. I mean, at the end of the day, they don't have an alternative. In their minds and in the structures they've created, there's no alternative to the market to carry out these things, to carry out essential services. We privatize the whole thing. And the thought of changing that is more abhorrent than the thought of people dying, especially since the people dying are theoretical.

And hey, you know what, maybe this thing's overblown anyway and it won't be that many. I mean, it's the same reasoning that keeps people resisting doing what needs to be done about climate mitigation. It's like, is it really going to be that bad? That would really fuck up the economy. I don't know, I feel like an idiot if we did that and it didn't end up mattering anyway. Right now, it's still theoretical, the hundreds of thousands of deaths. So it's like, eh, maybe that won't happen. I mean, it's certainly more terrifying to imagine breaking open the economy and like destroying this, this, this fragile house of cards they've built between private and private.

And actually having the government assert any authority, which they've basically abdicated and all of those fucking mechanisms of atrophied enemy anyway. Well, it's weird too, because I like, I don't know about you guys, but like people seem pretty willing to adjust their lives to observe these health recommendations, even in New York, where New Yorkers aren't willing to do anything for anyone. But like, you know, it's pretty easy to go on a walk in my neighborhood and like Will's neighborhood adjacent because there's like eight foot sidewalks, really wide streets. You can basically observe, God, I hate the phrase social distancing, I'm already fucking sick of it. But you can basically observe that and still kind of go on walks and not touch people. And you can go to like the park near us and it's very, it's since, you know, there's been warm weather. It's been very full, but it's very strange because it's full of people observing the six foot rule.

And some of them are wearing masks and people are trying not to touch the equipment. I've seen people like wiping down like sweetensets with, you know, like precautions that look weird, but are probably wise, but like with disinfectant and stuff. And it's like, I saw people like do like elbow taps instead of shaking hands or whatever, which God just just killed me. But the point is people are observing the recommendations, like people are willing to do this, like they're doing it. And it's pretty heartening. So I don't know, like the argument I'm hearing is like, well, people will never, Americans will never observe a change in lifestyle for the social good. And it's like, I look around and people are doing it. It's like, it's just literally a lack of infrastructure that I don't think there's even a particular social or cultural hump for this.

Another thing that's interesting to me about like, let's just use Lloyd Blankfine's statement as the sort of the template for what they're telling everyone to do about this, which is that, you know, stopping the spread of this disease is ultimately less important than continuing the economy. What they're really talking about is that the economy, i.e. them, that's who it is, that's who it serves, cannot continue if enough people withdraw their labor from it. That's interesting. It's just sort of like an object lesson. And like, yeah, exactly. And that like, so, I mean, if this goes forward, and basically every authority figure in America tells you to go back to work after two weeks. And again, like, ton of ton of people can't really not go to work.

They need the fucking money. But like, I think the message should be don't go back to fucking work. I mean, certainly for like, you know, the safety of the rest of the fucking society you live in, but also to teach these fucking these fucking monsters a lesson about what we know what really matters here, what moves the needle is us getting up every day and fucking going to the going to the goddamn job. I have a friend already who's like having to report her employer to the local Department of Health. And she just works in like retail. And she's like, like, no, like we're all fucking touching the same stuff. It's a dense little room.

And she's like, you have to shut shit down. It's, it's like, but she's scared of losing her job, which she really needs. She's a mom. And like, it's been saying, and then I have other friends that are like laid off, but the ones that got laid off earlier. Actually, like, oh, thank God, because there's not going to be huge lines for unemployment, which is about to happen. I don't know. It's really, it's really insane. Whatever.

I'm reading a book about the siege of Leningrad to make myself feel better because, you know, we're probably not going to eat people at least. The big, the reason that they're scared more than anything is that if we were going to really take this seriously, do the social distancing, do the quarantining to try to flatten the curve, as everyone says, we will have to end the market at least temporarily. And the thing is we could do that, but the implications of that are far too destabilizing to even consider. I mean, my God, if we were able to realize that we don't need these fucking price mechanisms that much and that we can actually, you know, allocate resources based on planning, holy fuck, that's scarier than any fucking virus, especially since these people are all fully confident they're not going to get it, or that they'll have, you know, enough money for the gold-plated ventilator to make sure that they don't die. Matt, just remember, the most important thing is that he not call it the Chinese virus. That is very important.

Yeah. Actually, I want to talk about this, actually, speaking of the Chinese virus. I'm just going to, yes, this is Donald J. Trump last night. My friend in parentheses, always there when I've needed him. Senator Rand Paul was just tested, quote, positive from the Chinese virus. That is not good. He is strong and will get better. Just spoke to him and he was in good spirits.

So Senator Rand Paul is now paused up. It's not good, but he's fine. But that's why it's not good. Yeah. So apparently, Senator Rand Paul got tested for the coronavirus six days ago and continued to go to work every single day he was waiting for the test results. And then when asked about this, after it was confirmed that he was paused with China flu, just said, like, well, wow, the Constitution doesn't say anything about not going to work.

No, he just said something about how, like, well, I thought it was highly unlikely that I had it, so I kept going to work. And then even funnier, today, apparently, another senator, they don't then say which one has tested positive and apparently it's because they were using the communal bowl of jelly beans that's in the Senate. So all these guys are just sticking their fucking fat, sweaty hands into a big bowl of jelly beans for days at a time, giving each other the fucking, spreading this fucking virus.

They'll be all right. They'll be fine. We call that the Typhoid Reagan. Typhoid Reagan, yeah. And also, Rand Paul's dad, Ron, just the other week published in his weekly newsletter for the Ron and Paul Institute, quote, the coronavirus hoax. Owned. Cool.

Very cool. Oh, my God. But it just could be like, how's everyone doing? I'm doing pretty good. Catherine and I are, we're maintaining. We're just here with our cats. We're watching a lot of movies. I'm cooking again.

I'm not doing bad. I have no idea. But I'm very, I'm just, I'm feeling better knowing that the cruise industry is going to be okay. A thing that should literally shouldn't exist. Exactly. It's like some things I can get like air, air, air, airlines are a crucial infrastructure. You should nationalize it and like cut it down to the, what it needs and not make it just,

you know, a luxury experience, but you still need airplanes. Cruise ships should not exist. No, bomb them. It's like, oh no, we're out of, we're, our industry's over. Oh well. How about we just take the ships, convert them into uses like mobile hospitals and then that's no more cruises. Would anybody's life be any worse if there were no more cruises?

My idea, use those cruise ships as a prison ships for the bourgeoisie and just never let them dock, let them sort of drift around. Go, go see Mad. Terry Southern's the magic Christian, but on a, on a massive scale. I believe it was Frederick Jameson who said it's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of carnival cruise lines because that's really what it boils down to. There's no economic necessity to keep cruise ships going. They're not even that important.

A lobby. It's just the thought of, of them going away is too unalienating and disturbing. Oh no. That, that things, that means things are different now and we can't have that. That means the world has moved on like in the fucking power series. I'm imagining a cruise ship, a lobbyist right now and like the little shorts and pastels and little boat shoes. A little.

Senator, what can we do to make this work? To get to the cruise ship lobby office on K street in DC, you have to go down a giant water slide. Matt, let me ask you this though. As far as like the cruise ship veil out, do you think any Republican president would have done this or is this just like a weird eccentricity of Trump knowing somebody? I love the cruise ships. I love the cruises.

They're going to fill the big boats. The big, the thing about the cruise ships folks is the big, like a big, look at that big boy. Honestly, that might be it. They're very large ships. Yeah. Like super rich people don't even go on fucking cruises. That's for fucking, that's for middle, that's for middle class fucking striving dipshits.

Real rich people have their own boats and their own islands famously. Yeah. I have my own island as well because I did download Animal Crossing. That's just an update from my, from my quarantine lifestyle. No, this entire. What do you know it? The game is for babies. I love a baby game.

We're all reverting now. I imagine it's apparently someone sick in my building and I don't think it's actually a big deal, but like everyone, multiple families left my building. So now I can be really loud in my apartment and yeah, I am going slowly mad. I impulse purchased a banjo. So you might be getting some banjo content soon. We're going to get a, we're going to get a, maybe a little ditty for the podcast. Oh, absolutely.

I will, I will write the balance. Are you going to do a little, a little picking? I'm going to do a little picking for us. I don't know. It's just very weird because it's like this isn't sustainable because people are also like, they are panicking. I mean, understandably and somewhat not so understandably. Like, you know, we laugh at the toilet paper thing, but I don't know.

Like, I will go, I will go isolation mad though. And I did think I, well, I'm like, why, why didn't I get like, you know, like a quarantine boo before this? But then I, when I was thinking that I got, by the way, a text almost simultaneously from two different friends that were, that are quarantined with a, you know, they're, they're beloved and they were both just like, I'm going to kill him. So we'll like, I'm placing bets on whether it's you or me. I'm not saying which one of you is Willem Dafoe and which one of you is Robert Pattinson,

but I'm just saying you shouldn't have killed that seabird and my money's on Catherine. Okay. Well, as soon as you brought up which one of you is Willem Dafoe, if you're talking about being isolated in a relationship, I thought you were going to say which one of you is Willem Dafoe and which one of you is Charlotte Gainsburg. If you've seen that movie, yikes. No, I think we're doing great. I think it's easier to have.

Yeah, just wait. Just wait. Yeah. Well, look, we, we, yeah, we don't want to totally kill each other yet. So that's good. But you know, I said it on the stream the other day and I honestly feel like I spent most of my 20s or a good chunk of them preparing to sit in an apartment doing nothing all day, not talking to anyone or doing or seeing anyone and just sort of keeping myself entertained

in a kind of, yeah, isolated nirvana. So I feel pretty, pretty well prepared for. I don't know. I thought I would be okay because I'm like, whatever, I love, I love being alone and I, I work alone and I arranged my life around being alone. But I never realized how much I actually rely on crowds to like, like, I want to go to the movie theater and get my nails done and do all this shit. I want to just get back to what some Matt said earlier about how like, you know, like

the only way to actually stop the spread of this virus is basically to stop the market for like, you know, maybe even half a year or something like that. But like, so let's talk a little bit about like some of the things that they are proposing as like a relief measure to this, but also let's dreamcast about like what would be like again, all other like political realities or considerations aside. What kind of like legislation or like measures do you think we would like to see being taken that would like make a difference and like, not just save lives, but actually, you know, backstop, you know, people's individual household income, but in a larger scale or entire economy

from completely eating itself alive. Well, I mean, like obviously we all want Medicare for all and, you know, tests to be produced. But one of the things that a lot of people were talking about is that this would be a really great opportunity. Like the people on, you know, the read list is this would be a really great opportunity to upscale domestic manufacturing because we don't have the pharmaceutical and medical infrastructure and those used to be very good jobs. My husband had a really good job in Indiana, a really good union job producing medical

supplies on an assembly line. And when that went away, like the remainder of the town just dried up and it was miserable and horrible and that's the kind of post industrial wasteland that exists. And it's like everyone's like, well, the, you know, manufacturers are coming back. It's like, well, clearly certain things actually should be produced domestically for a large population. What about a like, you know, I think Bernie has proposed this using like, you know, basically wartime powers to having the government take over like manufacturing of things like ventilators sort of like putting factories to work doing it.

Yeah. But what about like, you know, like, I know we've talked, we were making fun of bailouts of the cruise ship industry, but like, isn't this sort of like a perfect example that like, if everyone has to stay inside and not work and like everyone needs a bailout in terms of not just like cash injection every month, but like mortgage loan deferments and like, I think most importantly rent. Yeah. I think rent should just be like.

That will be the last thing too. Yeah. Like it's like the landlord's economy, man. Like two thirds of all New York City residents rent and in none of Cuomo's like supposed relief measures, like he put a deferment on mortgages for the property owning people. But, but in terms of rent, there's no, there's no relief for that. And like, here's the other thing. What does it mean to do like a rent freeze?

Does that mean at the end of three, four, six months, you've got to cough up back rent? Like, no, like to me, like everyone should like, there should be like officially like no rent during the time that everyone has to be quarantined. All this shit only works because somebody owes somebody and somebody's paying somebody. If you don't have that, it does destroy the entire underpinnings of the economy. Now we could replace it with a command thing where it's like, yeah, everybody stay where you are. We're not collecting rent.

We're going to give out money. We're going to, we're going to make the printers go, which we totally could do, but that would require a degree of federal control of economic activity and distribution that we have not, we have intentionally made impossible over the past 40 years. Yeah. What do you guys think about it? Yeah. By the way, in the UK right now, it looks like they're going to like nationalize the rails

under a Tory government. So it's like you've got like a right-wing instituting left-wing economic policies because you know, labor was got so neoliberal that the right lapped them on it. And I kind of have this fear that the Republicans are going to offer more social democracy than the Democrats. They're already sort of doing it with, you know, I mean, this, this bill is shit, man. The thing they're doing in the Senate is not doing any of that. So maybe they'll like make that decision, but it looks like they're more likely to just

send everybody back to work than to do that. I mean, the Democrats are still getting in the midst of getting lapped on here. Like you had Jared Paulus, the governor of fucking Colorado condemning Trump as a socialist for even suggesting that a bailout of any of these industries should include the government getting equity in them. I mean, they could, they could get lapped by standing still, but the Republicans are not, they're not in a hurry to get social democratic. I mean, this bill is dog shit.

But even making overtures to it, again, like this is what we keep saying is that like obviously like Trump is lying, but the Democrats are outright saying we're not going to give you that. Matt, could you talk about what's in this bill or like what's actually being proposed here versus like, you know, what needs to happen? Well, one of the big thing, one of the big things is $500 billion sort of like a bailout fund, which what I understand is basically no strings attached would not have any requirement that businesses not lay off or fire employees or pay them or anything to a bunch more liquidity

into the system, you know, which, which is what they've been doing so far and one time checks for people and not, not a recurring payment, one time checks and nothing on rent at all on the national level. Yeah. No, like in terms of, yeah. So it's just, it's just, it's just a blank check bailout to like, you know, big businesses and no strings attached at all. Like, you know, like I know I was seeing last week, like Boeing is about to run out of cash

and unless they get a bailout from the government, they're going to go under. Yeah. And it's just like, well, you know, Boeing's a major airplane manufacturing, maybe we shouldn't allow them to go under, but like if we save them, it should become America's airplane company. Yeah. Of course. Like they want to bail out. Taxpayers should become the tax shareholders of that company.

They want to bail out. That's worth like nine tenths of the value of Boeing like that's just, they're just asking to get bought out and it's like, sure, but then you should own them at that point. Yeah. But that's not part of it. Well, it'd be fair. There's no way we could possibly do a worse job running Boeing as a country than Boeing is doing right now.

I don't know. The thing where they, they, they thing where they built, they went to Fiverr to get to do a program that crashed the plane on purpose and then you had to pay extra to have it not do that. I thought that was pretty cool. That was pretty cool. I mean, that sure as shit didn't hurt their fucking bottom line. They were doing great right before this.

That's like, you know, sort of, you know, ideas that are being bandied about right now. Matt Namber, I'm curious your thoughts about a rent strike, about the utility of such a thing or like, or how, how to even approach doing something like that or even if it's advisable. Rent strikes are like notoriously like not like it sounds cool, but they notoriously don't work. They tend to work best when you organize an actual building because you have to look at the, you have to look at the landlord and how many properties they have and whether

or not they have the time and the money to hassle you personally. I mean, I think public housing and stuff like that should go on rent strikes because they've already suspended. I think they're suspending rents and public housing as part of the response. I think so. Yeah. I mean, they could still evict you. It's like, I think people go into sort of like organizing everything from forming a union

to like stuff like rent strikes without thinking like their moral righteousness will carry them through. But if you don't do that right and you're the one person and you're built in a building of like 16 units and everyone in it is paying their rent, your landlord will just throw you out. Yeah, but the thing is, people aren't going to be able to pay rent on a mass scale. Like it's not going to be one person in a building, it's going to be an entire building for the people.

They're not going to have to organize. They're just not going to have the money. So what happens then is a question and I don't know. I mean, yeah, but that's not being able to pay is not the same thing as an organized strike. Let's not like retroactively like paint desperation as a conscious, you know, as a conscious activist or organizing strategy. Well, it's still, I mean, it's just going to be a reality.

It's going to be a reality of people not being able to pay the rent. The question is what happens then? Do they just throw everyone out of their apartments? Everybody gets thrown out of their apartment to get replaced by who? I mean, I don't even know what they would do. I don't know. But if they're not getting the money anyway, you know, and also landlords are ruthless. They like to, they like to tamp down to scent or like their bosses for your home.

Like I said, it depends on how many people genuinely can't afford to pay the rent. Yeah. It depends on the building. Everything. They really end up having a rent stripe just happen accidentally by virtue of the fact that people have no capability to fucking do it. And then maybe they throw everybody out. But I mean, what would that require?

I mean, the National Guard, like everybody, every NYPD officer is tasked to evict people. I don't even know how they would. The NYPD, I bet would be tireless in fulfilling their duty. I mean, they could do it, but I mean, what else are they going to be able to have time to do? I mean, we're talking about like a huge chunk of the rental population, not just in this city, but in cities all over the country, are just not going to have the money to pay. So if that's the case, and we're looking at like, you know, a de facto rent strike because

everyone's running out of money or, you know, if you're, if you're a renter, chances are you're more likely to be like, you know, living paycheck to paycheck, which is for a lot of people not happening anymore, then, you know, would it be advisable to just put the name rent strike on it or get everyone else, but you need like a national figure, right? You need like a Bernie Sanders or someone to like advocate this, like, because Amber, as you pointed out, the hard part about this strike or this kind of strike or really all of them is that you need everyone to do it.

Well, you need everyone to do it and also it's deeply, it's dishonest also to conflate people's inability to pay with people's refusal to pay. And I had this argument during Occupy, when people were talking about like, we're going to do a student debt strike and we're not going to pay back our student loans. And I'm like, yeah, I already don't do that because I don't have any money and I am in default and it's really cute that this is a political decision for you. You and I are not in the same situation. I mean, I don't, I don't know how it would be organized.

My theory is that, like, if, if it actually gets to the point where it's affecting, you know, the landlord's bottom line, there will be some kind of intervention, but it will be, you know, some means tested supplementary check bullshit that will just barely keep people in their homes so that there aren't like massive fictions to put stress on the system. I just, I mean, I don't really see a way out of, I also, I don't see rent as the kind of easiest footholds to work towards a more democratic economy just because like one, I mean, like it's a landlord's economy. There are a lot of different landlords.

It's a very hard industry to target because you're talking about individual people. You're talking about localized businesses. It's not, it's not the same thing as a workplace. I'm very skeptical of the whole thing. Sorry. Sorry if that's a bummer. But yeah. I mean, like I said, I don't know what the, I don't, I guess I just, I don't know what

the, I mean, not a strike. I agree. There's no organizing capability for a strike, but I mean, people, they're not going to be able to afford it. They're not going to be able to pay the rent. And I don't know. I mean, that's one of those things that's a real change or real difference or real obstacle to things as normal that these people in power have a very hard time processing right now.

And that's why they're so terrified. And that's why they're mooting publicly, so many of them, the idea of just like, well, let's just pretend this isn't happening because we literally don't know how to function in the absence of these market forces, which we have surrendered all autonomy to. Sorry. Actually, I just found the quote from Cuomo. Again, this is, this is everyone's big democratic savior. He says, we have to, we have to plan to pit the pivot back to economic functionality.

Because we may not have to isolate everyone, could allow healthy, less vulnerable to work. A COVID-19 survival rate is 98% NY forward plan to look into restarting economic engine. He says, at some point, you have to open the valve because this is not sustainable. Says he has no second thoughts about keeping all non-essential workers home despite damage to the economy. Says there will be political consequences, but claims he doesn't care. Quote, the first order of business is to deal with the health crisis. We are still in the relative calm before the storm.

Once we get through the health crisis, we will plan for economy. Sounds like they're already planning for the economy though. Yeah. This is really, this is really. Also, I want to know about that 2% because that's the thing is that the recovery rate for this is entirely dependent on the kind of intervention that is taken on behalf of public health. It's like when people are like, look, no one's, I'm not vaccinating my kid because no one's

died from polio in years. It's like, yeah, because they were vaccinating. You can't use that. That's fucking circular logic. Yeah. I mean, the reality of this is if they allow it to get that herd immunity thing that the Brits were operating off of for a while before they did the math, is that, sure, in situations where you have seen the entire population get medical treatment, the death rate is 2%.

What's the death rate system-wide when everyone gets it, or basically everyone gets it because you've given up on trying to limit the spread, and then what? What is it? Something like 15% of people need medical intervention if they get sick with it, which is 15% of the United States population in a country with a million hospital beds. It's going to kill way more than 2% of the population. Well, I'm not even sure because I don't think we have good numbers on it. I think there's a very good possibility that, again, some people's symptoms are so...

There's no antibody test, so we have no way of telling, but I and quite a few people I know think that maybe we got it at some point, but I don't know if that means I could be care again, like if I could be the typhoid Mary of Corona, so we don't even... We have no idea... We don't know anything about this fucking disease. Well, any vaccine, theoretical vaccine, is still a long ways off, and to put it this way, 2% of the American population is like 7 million people. That's like a New York City full of fucking dead people from a plague.

That's what we're talking about here. Yeah, but if we have these numbers... If we have a social...if we create new social norms where that's not something that we freak out about, then it's fine. Well, that's... I think that's the terrifying thing. If you see somebody on the street, just put up your shirt and walk faster. I mean, I think that's the really terrifying thing is like with all this that I started

talking about, I think they are just sort of massaging everyone into being okay with that. Yes, that is the whole point of this. Well, it doesn't take much of a massage for New Yorkers either. I mean, once again, we have a conflict between human life and profit. I wonder which one's going to win. I wonder which one's going to take the title there in that particular contest. I got my money on human life.

Did they do, after all these years, they're due for a win? I just have to say, I really feel like...and I mentioned this to Will at some point where these parts said not that we're at war or anything, although that's apparently how Joe Biden thinks of the pandemic. But there's that part of the war movies where everything is really boring and the guys are just kind of sitting around talking about what they're going to do when it's over. I feel like no one emphasizes how fucking boring a crisis can be, and I feel like we're just at this point, we're just sitting around being like, I don't know.

I don't know what's going to happen, and I literally don't. It's just sort of extremely boring, and I miss going to bars and restaurants and movie theaters, and yeah, I don't know. I'm not very productive either. I'm not writing a lot. I'm just reading about the Siege of Leningrad and learning the fucking Bejo. All right. Let me ask you guys this.

What do we make of our boy Bernard Sanders' leadership or presence during all of this? Have you clocked any of his live streams or any of the things that he is... Yeah. Wow. What a reassuring, dare I say, presidential presence. It's actually kind of like...I mean, I try to stay away from shit like that. I think Gabriella Paella had a thing where she's like, the word presidential is disgusting, but actually, stuff like leadership in moments like this is pretty useful, and I hope people

are following them because he's done a really fucking good job of managing this. He's a cool head. I think when people say presidential, they mean in this regard like an FDR, fireside chat in a crisis kind of thing. I think being responsive to people's genuine concerns, which is like, let's be honest, the presidency is like a very stupid position that shouldn't exist because we have a really dumb federal government system, but the idea, the role that a president can play in reassuring people is very high.

I have to say, I don't think my grandparents believed in corona until Trump acknowledged that it wasn't a hoax. You can say that's stupid all you want, but someone in a presidential position does have, especially in times of crisis, a decent amount of influence over people's state of mind and their attitudes and behaviors. Is there anything that you wish Bernie would say or do that he's not doing? I do wish he would go a little bigger. Right now, it seems like he's just kind of bidding up what's already being talked about

in Washington, like going higher on the idea of monthly subsidy and stuff. I wish he would go a little bigger, a little big picture stuff, command economy, like what we actually need to do to get the market out of the way of getting through this, which is what it is. The reason these guys are freaking out is because there's no way that you can keep things going on a paying basis, essentially, because there's just not enough demand, there's not enough input to pay for all this stuff. It has to be the government, and that requires a wholesale retrofitting of the state to

do the things that it spent 40 years saying, actually, that's the market's job, and I would like him to get more explicit on that. One of the things I think that would be useful in that respect is to really talk about the NHS, because the weird thing about the NHS is that it wasn't something like, say, in the Scandinavian social democracies where they're like, okay, we are building a state, and part of that state is cradle-to-grave welfare. They had just had a huge disaster, and they created a national health system. World War II, you mean?

Yes. Like, they created the national health system out of a crisis, out of the ashes of destruction. So I think a lot of times people have this sort of tentative attitude towards big projects, because I think it's risky to do a big project when, you know, the score is down, so to speak, but actually, it is the perfect time to do a big project. God knows, like, neoliberals don't let a crisis go to waste. Socialists shouldn't either. So yeah, we need a socialist shock doctrine right now, basically.

I mean, the problem is no one's going to implement it, but as long as we're wish-casting here. Matt said this on the stream the other day, but I think World War II is actually a very instructive model here, because I don't think it is, you may balk at it, but this is probably the biggest crisis America as a nation has faced since World War II. Yeah. Yeah. And we pulled out all the fucking stops to win that fucking thing, and did basically create a command economy to do so.

So, you know, I think the model is instructive in terms of what the state can do if it took this as seriously as, I don't know, defeating Hitler in Japan. Yeah. Well, once again, we really had the help of the Soviets on that one. Tell you what, I've said this before, but we say what you will about the Soviet Union. They kept us honest. I got to say, the NHS is honestly the model people should be talking about, I mean, single payer paying for what?

I mean, come on, get out of here. But man, they're not going to look great in a few weeks, though. Not their fault. They've been hollowed out on purpose, and then the British had that insanely hair-brained, herd immunity idea that they were going with during the most crucial time period for actually containing it. So they're going to get absolutely slammed. It's not the national part that's going to be the problem there when they get absolutely

overwhelmed. Also, like, you know, if you look at Italy is like, you know, being used as the stand-in for like the worst hard-hit country, like outside of China. And I remember back during that debate where Joe Biden made a point of saying about Bernie, like, oh, look, they have a single payer system and it's not helping. I mean, like in retrospect, like, that just looks even more monstrous because it's like, yeah, like they're fucking hurting real bad in Italy, but like, think how much fucking worse they would be off if they didn't even have, you know, what the system that they

do have. And like, you know, those Italian doctors are fucking working like 24-hour shifts and stuff. It's pretty incredible. But I mean, again, like that as compared to what we have, like, I would so much rather be in Italy right now. Also, Italy is like a fucking extremely poor southern European country that's been hollowed out by the European Union and subjected to massive austerity.

Like there's like a one-third male unemployment rate under 30 in Italy. Like they have a huge youth drain. Like there are a lot of economic problems with Italy that don't have anything to do with their fucking health care system. Did you see the Cuban doctors coming to help though? Yes, they always do, kings, fucking kings. Actually I think you'll find that they overinvest in their medical sector and it's not productive. I mean, to be fair, that is true.

It's not productive. All they do is help people that try to destroy Cuba. And also, thinking back to that debate, remember, you know, like Joe Biden trying to ding Bernie on saying, hey, like maybe Cuba actually doesn't do all evil all the time? Like, well, there's one fucking good example of it. They're sending like phalanxes of doctors into the heart of a fucking pandemic to save lives. Yeah.

They always have and including to fucking ungrateful pieces of shit countries that talk shit on them. And there was a period when I think it was Bush one. It might have been Bush two, but I think it was Bush one. And he basically encouraged Cuban doctors to defect when they were on assignment. Like it's just like, oh, you can escape if you're, you know, doing humanitarian. You could escape the, you know, the terror of Cuba and such a tiny number of them defected and a few of them defected, I think, but then came back like this, like, man, Cuba's fucking

cool. Sorry. I would love some fucking Cuban doctors in New York City right now. Oh my God. Yes. Yes. We're going to fucking need it. We're going to need anyone who can help.

And, you know, I mean, nothing gets sentimental for a second, but like, you know, if you have friends, relatives, or you yourself are working in as a nurse or doctor or EMS worker right now, just, you know, pause to take, you know, the respect that you deserve for what you're doing right now. And I would, you know, especially those, but I would also extend this to grocery store workers, people working to check out at grocery stores and pharmacies or driving trucks or taxis or rideshare right now. Like, that is the thread that is like keeping our civilization together and why you can

go out of your house. And like, despite the severity of this crisis, things basically still look as they would on, you know, an otherwise, you know, Monday or Sunday or whatever. It's those people who are doing these jobs that are actually necessary for the same mostly shitty wages that they were making before now at significant personal risk to themselves. God bless the fucking sanitation workers, by the way. Yeah. Garbage men.

Absolutely. Jesus Christ. And I, you know, because I don't want to whatever would be around too many people just in case there's like a, you know, a senior citizens housing project across the street. So I'll go out like at night when there's no one on the street and like I see these garbage men and they'll be like two to a truck. A lot of times they don't have gloves. Like I mean, and without them, like we'd have like 30 other diseases killing us.

Like giving the rat problem in New York City alone. Like Jesus Christ, they are like the men and women keeping us from descending into filth and anarchy. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, again, think about like a grocery store checkout workers, like how many people they have to actually physically interact with like day in, day out. And you know, if they weren't there, like, you know, the supermarkets couldn't be open and if they weren't open, then like people would be in really fucking dire straits.

And yeah, like they're still making the same wages they were before, which is I'm sure insufficient. So yeah, maybe this is corny, but how about a bailout for them and a raise and free health care? Yeah. I know it universally, but if in this crisis, like how about just give it to just them? Like I said, the people who are the thread that like all normalcy of our civilization is hanging from at this, at this moment.

Yeah, the people with the Richard scary jobs. Yeah, exactly. If you're not in this picture, you don't have an essential job. If you're not riding an apple with a worm, it's not a real job. You know his name? Loli. Get it? He's Loli worm.

Yeah. Yeah. There we go. Yeah. I have a question that I was thinking about during the, when we were talking about rents and also a little bit from the World War II thing. Is there any even halfway decent example, like historical example of what happens when an exogenous force completely disrupts a market enough to make something like a de facto rent

strike happen at any time in the past that's not in the industrial past, like the past where we consider like capitalism in effect, that there's any kind of precedent for this force that you, that one, yeah, I was going to say Mount Vesuvius, you, you save me from that with a little post-industrial caveat and not at this level, I don't think. And certainly not under like, you know, you know, liberal capitalism. I think we're in, we're a new territory. Yeah. I'm just saying, uh, look forward in the next week for, uh, for Trump to give a capitalist

version of Jim Jones's white night speech on the Oval Office, telling you to lay down your life and die for capitalism. Mother, mother, mother, mother, please go back to work, go back to work, go to work with dignity, please, please, please, please. This is no way for a good capitalist to die. Oh man. No. No.

Yeah. That's as usual with Matt, um, like barely even a joke at this point. Yeah. Uh, it's really, uh, and I guess, yeah, I think our answer to that is don't go back to work. Yeah. Honestly, like, I mean, I know that's like, everyone has to make that decision based on like a calculus of their, their own life, but like, God damn, there needs to be somebody out there.

If they're really going to tell people to go back to work in like another 10, 15 days, you know, as long as you're low risk or don't have symptoms, like go back to work, like we'll just quarantine the nursing homes. There's got to be someone out there and hopefully Bernie Sanders or someone at a fucking national level with some prominence who can just say, no, don't do this. Do not put your lives at risk for this fucking dumb bullshit. Anyway, that's my closing thought, but, um, let's leave people, uh, with a little, a little fun stuff.

We always like doing this. Uh, can we give people some, uh, some more movie wrecks to keep them, uh, their, their minds occupied during, uh, this cabin fever, uh, period. Okay. So me and Cal are doing a regular kind of sync up and watch movie thing. Um, that sounds good. And, uh, and then we just sort of like, uh, you know, what's up, chat our commentary to each other and everything is, um, uh, corona themed in subway.

Um, so, uh, the third man, uh, was my, yeah, um, about profiteering off a pandemic. Very good. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Um, no spoilers. Also just a beautiful movie. It's one of my favorite movies all time.

It is a wonderful classic all time, uh, film. Yeah. Um, and I, uh, uh, last night we did, um, Solaris, which is tangentially, um, about it because it's about a sentient brain planet, the manifest of man's dead wife, but, uh, uh, I, I say it's connected because the, um, the Russian alphabet word for, uh, uh, Solaris looks like Corona. So, you know, it's a stretch, but it works, um, it's also very long. So it will keep you occupied for four, four hours.

It's very long and, um, and it's, it's bleak in Russian. Um, I'm trying to think of the other ones, but, uh, yeah, we're, we're doing a theme, uh, a pandemic theme, sort of a regular movie series and I'll, I'll keep everyone posted on what we keep putting together, um, definitely do the third band though. Um, it's amazing, it's beautiful, it's, uh, romantic, and, uh, everyone should know that at one point, uh, Orison Wells was kind of hot. Okay. When, when, when's that Zither music hits?

Yeah. Oh, homie. Oh my God. When that beat drops. Uh, I am now back to logging on Letterbox, so, uh, if you're looking for movie wrecks, uh, find me on there, I'll just give you two that we watched this weekend that are, these are easy picks for me, but they, they're both slot very easily into the Menaker movie mindset. Uh, 10 out of 10 God tier all time popcorn classics.

I'm going to go with the Cohen brothers, Miller's crossing and Michael man's thief. Nice. Nice. Both of them, both of those movies, I've seen them so many times. I watched them again. They both still go incredibly hard. They fucking annihilate. And I know we was putting our feelings into words that memorize the songs of Solomon.

I forgot. Uh, we're also, uh, watching, um, uh, Al Pacino's Simone in, uh, dedication to Joe Biden. Yes, he, Joe Biden has been Simone, uh, by, you know, some sort of CGI apparatus. Uh, I don't say also for like TV shows, if you're just looking for something to uplift your spirit, that is, you know, goes down easy, always satisfied and is a wholesome uplifting view of humanity in the world. I will give you trailer park boys. Oh hell yeah.

Still brilliant. One of the great working class comedies. A genuinely wholesome, kind and uplifting program that I would encourage everyone to watch or rewatch if you, uh, have seen it already, Matt, you got any wrecks? Uh, I watched the hunt, uh, which is, uh, apparently people are very mad at it because they say that it does both sides ism, but the two sides are like, uh, maga people and rich lips. So it's pretty funny.

I think it's fine, but they use blood, let them fight, which is no back, no good. So you see GI blood, which I know Matt, when we get out of this, I'm going to buy you your own pack of squibs. Tell you what, when this war is over, when this war is over, we're getting a bunch of breakaway glass or getting a bunch of squibs, some fake knives, we're going to have a fake fight. It's going to be amazing. We already had some good, we already had some good fun with the breakaway glass in Las

Vegas. Um, but holy shit, Matt, think how fun it, dude, think how fun it would be to just load up your whole body with squibs and then just do a take where you get like just shredded by a machine gun. I'll, uh, I'll rent like seven of the same cameras so we can get it from like seven different angles and intercut it a million times in slow motion, so give him like a real classic Michael Bay death. Love it.

Uh, I'll do, I'll do mine. Uh, I've been rewatching the, uh, Star Wars prequel trilogy, uh, just, it bangs just to totally melt my mind, uh, which are, you know, I would call those movies baffling more than anything, but I do think that they're interesting just because they are such a wonderful look at the, at a completely unfettered creative process by a genuine weirdo. Like they are all exactly portraits of the inside of George Lucas's mind with nobody else really interfering or tampering with them. So they are in that way valuable artifacts.

I did the prequel trilogy rewatch, um, before, uh, this latest madness happens and they are, it is very brain smoothing to watch those movies and baffling is exactly the right word for them, but they remain entertaining to watch because of just how profoundly weird they are. And here's my contrarian hot take, having rewatched all three of them recently, Phantom Menace is actually better than the other two. I swear to God, Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sists are even more unbearably stupid than the first one, which does suffer from that annoying kid and the, um, monumentally

awful Jar Jar Banks. Jar Jar Banks, I said this on Twitter the other day, but it might be one of the single most disastrous choices in film history. But everyone remembers all the embarrassing shit. He's a funnier, he's a funnier character than we've ever had before. Jar Jar is a funnier character than we've ever had on screen in the Star Wars universe. That's pretty good. Thank you.

The Jar Jar stuff is brutally embarrassing and, you know, basically offensive. But people forget how many unbelievable cringe moments are in the, in the, in the second one, the second one, the second one is assaults. The entire thing is brutal. The 25 minute sequence in just this giant factory CGI factory, where it's just so bad lava. And of course the best character in Star Wars history, Dexter Jettster, owner of the fifties diner on course.

Oh my God, boys, boys, Star Wars prequels trilogy, choppo episodes. Let's go. Well, Virgil would have to be involved because he now has decided to go all the way around the bend and claim that they're not only better than the prequels, but actually are better than the new ones, but are actually good in their own right. No, we're going to do it. We're going to do it. We need Virgil's unique perspective on this choppo Star Wars prequels episodes.

We're going to do our own trilogy. Movie episodes are always fun and I think will help keep us all sane. Yeah, that might be good. Because there's just honestly, I think that's good content and honestly there is so much to talk about in each one of them. I would, I will do plug one more thing. Molly and I just started doing, as associated with our other show, a kind of twitch watch with us where we just queue up a whole playlist of music videos and hang out and watch them

and talk about music and music videos. Which one is Beavis and which one is Butthead? I think that I would have. I think you're Beavis. I think you're Beavis. Hey, Amber, could you like shut up? But I think we'll probably be doing that, I don't know, Tuesday nights maybe? Is that when we did it last year, Molly, or last week?

We've been in quarantine a thousand years. Yeah, so Tuesday night, I think on my personal twitch channel until they take us down for copyright reasons, twitch.tv slash thechriswade, and I'll post about it on Twitter if you want to watch that. Just hang out and watch music videos with us. Okay. Oh, I got another plug then. Vanderpod, after going on a month-long hiatus or month-plus long hiatus is coming back.

Katherine and I are recording it tonight. You will have a new episode of Vanderpod probably sometime on Tuesday afternoon. And also, I started doing this on our Twitch stream on Saturday, but I think I'm going to do a little side project on Instagram Live. I'm hoping to do it this evening. I'm going to read a chapter of Moby Dick, hopefully every night, or every other night, on Instagram Live. No, no, no.

Let's do this. Let's do this together, because I'm realistic to it. And also, you'll get tired, I'll be honest. Okay, well, we can trade off. I'm going to do chapter two tonight, I think, on Instagram. I mean, there's a lot of the book, Amber, so we can trade off or do it together. Yeah. And you will get super tired.

We'll figure out how to do it. But I'm going to try to maybe... No, because I'm literally, sorry, I literally was talking about doing this with someone where I was like, why don't we make videos and just have a bunch of people trade chapters or whatever? And it could be like, you know... I mean, yeah, it'd be very hard to do it myself, but maybe as part of a collaborative effort, we can get through this whole quarantine having done a full live-streamed reading of the entirety

of Moby Dick. I think we can do it. It's the greatest... We can do it. It's the greatest American novel, possibly greatest novel ever written. All right. Well, I think we can sign off for today. Till next time, this is your chapeau, please stay safe.

Cheers, everybody. Wash your hands. Bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.