Chapo Trap House - 580 - The Prisoner (11/29/21)

Episode Date: November 30, 2021

Felix explains Twitter Spaces and his theory of the Swag Samsara. Then Will leads us through two pieces covering the Epstein case, one detailing the jury selection of Ghislaine Maxwell’s trial and one attempting to re-examine Jeffrey Epstein’s death and declare it definitively a suicide. Both are...interesting, in what they chose to say about their subjects and how.\ Tickets still available for our show NEXT WEEK, 12/8 at Asbury Hall in Buffalo: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/chapo-trap-house-tickets-201713088277

Guys, we did it. We got Jack to ban the Nazis and leave. He banned himself. It's the end of an era. Yeah, he banned himself. Oh, what's Jack's retiring? Oh, is he going to spend more time with the Nazis? He didn't ban? Oh, Jack's moving on to other ventures. Oh, another venture where he's not going to ban the Nazis. He's moving on to other ventures. What, the annexation of Czechoslovakia?

Let's go. I'm going to. I'm sad he's going, honestly. Could someone explain Twitter Spaces to me? It's where you go out, go to find the truth about things like Pan-Slavism and Pan-Turkism and race realism. It seems like a vast majority of these topics people talking about are like highly advanced race science. It's not. Twitter Spaces is good. It's like, fuck, clubhouse sucks.

Like people, people just like they got so like, I mean, I'm on record is saying it, you know, I support COVID. I support lockdowns just because like I don't care about the disease. I don't know if it's real. I just like what it did to everyone. I think it's cool how everyone acts now, how everyone behaves, everyone thinks. And I think like COVID was just so bad for people, even in places that weren't locked down, just made everyone so crazy that like they convinced them

that clubhouse was cool. Like I looked at clubhouse once when it was like popping and all the rooms were like, you know, how to get into real estate investing? No, well, yeah, boring shit. Who fucking cares? But Spaces is, you know, it's why we're going to miss Jack because he recognized that his completely mentally ill user base would take this boring concept of a room where everyone can talk and make it awesome.

Or some of the spaces, topics, I mean, because I haven't participated in one yet because I don't really know how it works. Is everyone talking at the same time or is it there's like a host and then from what I understand, yeah, there's a host who then can allow people who are listening to comment. It seems like it's the closest thing we've been able to get to like call in talk radio on the internet so far, which I guess is what clubhouse was to. Although I never fucking even paid that a second's attention.

So yeah, clubhouse sucked. But like this was I mean, the fun's going to be over soon, unfortunately. But like there was an awesome like Israel versus Palestine room. There was a there was one where it was like ask a Nazi anything. And it was this guy being like, it was Jack. Yeah, because he didn't ban them. It was this guy saying like, well, like I think like the U.S. should just be divided racially, but there should be we should put motes everywhere to divide.

But it's like, I love it. It feels so much like how things used to be because like when someone there was like a really like transphobic space, people just fucked it up. People just ruined it for like the guy that started it. And it's like that is kind of how things used to be. You know, you got a little bit of the new. The new internet and a little bit of the old and I really like it. Like whatever someone like, you know, does make a really terrible room.

Like people just really, really fuck it up and like ruin it. But I do unfortunately think like the fun's going to be over. Like the Daily Beast is probably going to write an article about all the spaces. I personally have been attending and enjoying people ruining. Yeah, they're going to talk about how it's like radicalization is happening in Twitter spaces. I think it's like it's causing the opposite of radicalization because it's like if you went to like the Nazi water, any of these, like when you over, you actually hear some like someone like the transphobic one, like you heard

like the transphobic guy talk, you'd be like, this guy's a fucking idiot. Like I'm probably, I'm pretty sure it like swayed more people against him. Is that the guy who was like is that the guy who was like, they're calling their buttholes pussies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that was him. And that guy actually is Tariq Nishid's enemy. Okay, well, so I'm like doubly against him. She had a space. It was something like our black women too publicly visible or something like that.

It's look, it's just like, I hope these stick around in their current form because it's just it's good old fashioned fun. But like the fun never lasts. They're going to they're going to moderate it and then like all spaces will be like you know, what's what's the what's the best way to get into like how it's flipping, you know, Airbnb for beginners. Just shit. They're going to turn it. They're going to get rid of it and replace it with Twitter bodies. We should, we should do one.

Did you see, did you see D-Ray today when like Jack announced he was retiring D-Ray just tweeted the black power fist. Man. I will. That's, but I feel the same way. I miss him so much. We get in before it gets before it gets some sort of censored and moderated. She got in with a Twitter space of women. Are there too many of them?

Yeah. Yeah. No, I just, I think that's the way to go. You just have to go like inflammatory title. Like, should it be illegal to celebrate Hanukkah? Let's find out. Let's debate the issue. It's, it's, it's cool.

I think that, um, you know, unlike clubhouse people on Twitter, uh, they just have the impulse that someone they didn't know three minutes ago. They're like, I need to destroy this person's life. Like I hate them. It just makes spaces cool. I'm going to do a pit bull holocaust when space. Yeah. Should, should pit bull owners be on the no fly list or should we just kill them? Like, yeah, shit like that.

Um, just my advice to everyone is like, enjoy these while you can. Nothing fun lasts. It's just how it goes. You know, you can't complain that much. It's just that's life. We all know it. You just got to enjoy the good times. Okay.

How about this one? Hey, uh, a Twitter space titled, uh, which nation in the Balkans is best? And then it's just me discussing the films of James Glickenhouse while people scream at me. That's the best bait and switch to do like super inflammatory title, but the content is like as boring as clubhouse. Like, like, like doing, doing a room that's titled like, um, uh, okay, for real, which race smells the worst. But when you get there, I'm, I'm the only speaker and I'm like, do we really think usbc made computing better? I can do my old troll of, uh, just reading Finnegan's wake from start to finish. That's a good one.

Me and you did that one together. That's a good one. That's dude. Yeah. There's so much fun to be had while you can still have it. Like, I will say, uh, Felix, um, you, uh, you shared something the other day that has, you know, sort of riveted me to my core. I've been, uh, I've just been pondering this deep dark truth about sort of the cycle of history. Uh, you wrote swag men create dope times, dope times create dripless men, dripless men create fuck times, fuck times create dope men.

And I know that you need fuck times to get dope men, but I worry that we're in the fuck times cycle of history right now. Yeah. I mean, we definitely, we are, but like, okay. The time like, I would say like, uh, first year of Trump to the three years before that, let's say that's the swag. Do we agree? That's the swag time kind of general swag out. Yeah. This is swag time.

Okay. But we only got there because we were in a fuck time, which was the 2008 recession that led to modern street wear and Adam 22 and phase banks and all, all the, all the dope men that created dope times. It's like, it sucks, but that's, that's really how it goes. That is the, the Chinese first came up with this when they, they called it the dynastic cycle when they invented it. Is there when they, they had the, they had the world's first recorded dope times 9,000 years ago. I just, I, but of course they had like dripless men, the Mongols attacked them. That's why they did the invasion so that they could get some drip.

Yeah. But then the Mongols were dripless, but then they created a dope time. Then they were, then they looked cool. Then after they became cool that led to fuck times, which was the creation of Turkey. No, I'm just kidding. I am buying, I'm just kidding. I'm buying the dip on the lira. I stand with Turkey trust the plan. Turkish exports will account for 100% of the economy by the lira now.

I just, I worry though, is there any way that we, is there any exit from this like relentless cycle of history? Like, I mean, I'm just saying like through prudent policy, can we sort of lock in the dope times and prevent the fuck times? Can we prevent dripless men from creating fuck times? Well, what you're trying to do is immunitize the swag eschaton and that's just not, it's not possible. I'm sorry. I am a little bit more of an optimistic person than Matt. I think Matt is convinced that we just have to do this cycle forever, but you know, due to human improvement, due to the sum of our knowledge, the drip's always going to get cooler, the times will, the dope times will always be doper and hopefully the fuck times will be less fucked. What I think is we're probably going to keep doing that, but potentially because of technology, we could reach the dope singularity.

Okay, so, okay, like a Roman Empire for a century AD. Fuck time, but then birth of Jesus Christ, swag king. One of the dopest men ever, and the son of God, if you believe that. Which, I mean, even if he wasn't, okay, and you know, there's a 50-50 shot, okay, and that's pretty good odds. It's good enough to become a Christian. But then the Roman Empire, the Roman Empire becomes too swag, then it falls fuck times. I mean, but it was because they got, because they become too Christian. Yeah, but that led to who were the dopest men, the Muslims.

Okay, and then a new cycle, a new cycle begins again. Yeah, because they're like, they had like a whole dope area known as Iberia, but then like they were too, it became too easy for them to be dope. And so they like lost. They lost to like a bunch of guys that didn't even speak Christian. They lost to a bunch of guys that like grew up in a river. And, but then the Spanish became cool. The siglo de oro in Spanish that translates to the age of dopeness. But that's perfect because they had so much dope shit, so much gold from their conquest.

So much drip. It created, so much drip, it caused hyperinflation. Yep. Under Philip II, who was, I'm sorry, a swagless man. Absolutely swagless. Okay, dude, this theory applies to everywhere. It's crazy. Let's apply, let's apply the cycle of dopeness to Napoleon and the French Revolution.

Got it. Where are we going? Okay, Napoleon. Okay, French Revolution, sort of fuck times. That's definitely fucked, yeah. That's pretty fucked. Yeah. It's very fucked.

And then Napoleon obviously, the man on the swag on horseback basically. Coming into history and creating a golden age of swag for the French, first French Empire. But then. Then the restoration. Yeah. Dripless, fucked. Absolutely drip. Oh my God.

The returning Bourbons. Charles the Tenth. Absolutely swagless. So yeah, I just, it's crazy if you just like study history, how you can see cycles repeat themselves. I just, like I said, I worry the last embers of swag are fading and we maybe headed into fuck times because we got too swag. But that means our grandkids will be dope.

Pretty cool. That's all you can hope for. I mean, yeah, look, look, it just, that's just how it goes, but just how it goes. And sometimes you are, it's like Lenin said, sometimes there are decades where nothing dope drops. There are no brailed belts and sometimes there are weeks where everything is dope. Everything dope happens. I think that's what he said.

That's true. You did say that. Yeah. It's like in, in, in the state and dopeness by Vladimir Lenin. It's sort of like a swag saura, sort of this concept of rebirth and death and just the endless cycle of things coming out of a dopeness and going into fuckness. Well, all right, um, evidence of our fuck times right now, uh, the Jolene Maxwell trial is starting today.

Boys, let's go. Um, our girl is, um, she's seen the inside of a courtroom for the first time jury jury has been selected and we'll see where this trial goes. I don't, I don't really know what to expect here. My suspicion is a nothing interesting or of note will come out of it because the fact that she's still alive means that probably she's been replaced by a robot. Obviously. Yeah.

But I would just like to go into some, uh, news coverage of the trial today. We're not news coverage. This is sort of like, uh, this is a piece, um, in, uh, Bloomberg. This is under the Bloomberg equality vertical titled Jolene Maxwell jury confronts rare case alleging female sexual predator, uh, says your, uh, Jolene Maxwell sex trafficking trial is set to kick off as one of the biggest of the hashtag me too era. But the jury selected Monday may have to grapple with a unique question. Is Maxwell herself a victim?

It's a good question. It is very good. Uh, most criminal defendants are men in these sorts of sexual predator cases, said Moira Penza, a former federal prosecutor in Brooklyn, New York. This case is unusual because we have a female defendant. Whether some people might be more or less sympathetic to Maxwell 59, a woman has hung over the jury selection process. The 12 jurors and six alternates were picked Monday in Manhattan federal court with opening

statements to begin soon after in a trial expected to last into January. They've convicted the British socialite faces as many as 40 years in prison. The jury selection got off to a bumpy start on Monday with two potential jurors not showing up at all and another who forgot getting into the courthouse late. A few also raised their hands when us district judge, Alison Nathan, asked if they had read or heard anything since last week and could still be impartial in the case among those dismissed was a private equity worker who had previously expressed concern about serving on the jury due to his quote proximity to high profile individuals who have been linked

to Maxwell's ex-boyfriend, Jeffrey Epstein. Yeah. No. High profile individuals, not like, oh, I'm sorry, I like bought my wife from her. My bad. I did. So the lawyer asked if they had heard or read anything that would like sway them. Got to say another huge L for article heads.

I'm just, if you read an article, fuck you. I'm just imagining getting like paneled in jury duty for the Jolene Maxwell trial. And I'm, I'm, I'm sitting there and they're like, I'm, I'm sitting in the jury box wearing the true and non-bushed 9-11 t-shirt. They're like, now have you read anything about this case or can count on anything that may bias you? And I'm just like, nope, definitely not. Not if I got, if I got asked to be on the Gizlaine jury, I would absolutely lie my balls

off. Oh, God. Like, have you ever, have you ever have recorded yourself talking about this case and released it publicly in any manner? No, no, no, definitely not. Yeah. You just have to be like, I've never read an article. My TV has never, I have never actually seen anything except for NBC's Wednesday night

lineup. That's the only, I've never seen a piece of media that wasn't run through Ken Olin. That's why I feel so bad for these jurors because they are just pristine minds. They're, they're, they're just wholly innocents who are now just going to have to be water boarded with this shit. The today, when they were talking in, they were doing like the jury in paneling today, they asked one of the jurors if they had any knowledge about the case and they said, quote, I believe I was watching football and I just switched over and the news was on.

And I just, you know, heard that he committed suicide and Miss Maxwell's name was mentioned briefly and I just kept it and went back to watching football. That's all I could really remember. Oh my God. That guy was so pure and now how he's going to have to fucking know about this stuff. That is, I didn't think about it from that angle. That is really sad. Like Holy foot.

Like so many like just perfect like cattle Americans who are like, um, oh, I just, I never, I, I never miss an Oakland Raiders game. Yeah. Yeah. I was, I did a, I did a semester at sea that docked out of Oakland when I, in 1981. And so I love the Oakland Raiders and I only watch, I only watch that the United States of L, um, and he's going to like that guy is going to hear the most sorted shit in the world.

It's going to be him. It's going to be like three old women who are all named gay, uh, it's just perfect innocent Americans. Very sad. Do I know who, do I know who Joe Biden is? No, I don't. I've been watching NBC's La Brea. Yeah, they're going to, they're going to seek out people who think that Joe Biden is Donald

Trump's dad. That's going to be who's on this fucking jury. I mean, like that is really the way jury selection works in any case in America. Like they're trying to find, they're trying to find like the smoothest brains in America, like the people who don't have any frame of reference for anything that's going on. You say smooth brains. I say, uh, transcended and enlightened brains. Yeah.

What the hell does all of this information do for anybody? What is knowing this stuff? How does it get you out of jury? They are right. Yes. That's the one thing it does. But it gets you out of jury duties for what? So you could read more fucking articles like I, oh, okay.

So you know, we've seen a lot of this shit where people are like, um, oh, like go to trade school. Uh, you'll make a lot of money. Um, well, I mean, they're just, look, if everyone you're telling goes to trade school, I got bad news for you about how much money all those jobs are going to make. But one job that is going to make a lot in the future, no matter how many, because most people can't do it. Most people won't do it is you can be someone who you are a professional juror.

You don't, you've never read an article. You don't know fucking anything. You don't know how to open Twitter. You have to call your building superintendent to turn on the oven every day. You're not allowed to just operate it on your own. And your job is that you serve in different juries because too many Americans in major cities spend 18 hours a day looking at their phone and getting mad reading articles. They can't be on juries.

No, no, we need, we need a class of people who are just essentially kept in veal crates watching reruns of the office. Yes. Oh, that Michael Scott, he's like my dad. That Oh my God. That will be, and that will be like the only job with social mobility. That's the only way that you can become PMC is be by being a professional juror if you're not already, but then unfortunately your kids will be article readers.

I know. Yeah. I mean, it's, we're, now we're back to the, the, the fucked drip cycle. But no, no, it's like, yeah, like the people who want to be history's actors the most, the people who, you know, who want to be a one of the 12 angry men, they don't get the opportunity to because they know too much. They know too much. So they've, they, by, by being, by being moderately aware or having opinions about current events,

they prejudice themselves before a lawyer even gets a chance to do so for them, which is dangerous. So, I mean, like, I, I just worry though, because I mean, obviously it's, it's hard if you want to see justice done in this case. And obviously that would mean Jelaine being totally exonerated to, to get on the jury didn't do that, you know, but you know what, let's read the article more because I think it's painting a picture. So it says here, Cheryl Bader, a former federal prosecutor who now teaches at Fordham Law

School, said such a defense could work with some jurors, referring to just the idea that she was a sort of enthrall and a scapegoat to a rich and powerful man. People hold complex worldviews, said Bader. A Me Too juror seems more likely to want to hold Maxwell accountable for her enabling role. But they might also be open to seeing Maxwell as herself a victim of a controlling abusive male. I think it will come down to how well the defense can cast Maxwell as just another victim

of Jeffrey Epstein. Um, I'm going to be watching the trial to see how well the defense can make that case. I like, I honestly don't know what the fuck to expect from this, from this trial. I have no idea. I would, I would move to think that whatever fix could be in is probably already in. I do think it's interesting. Did you guys see that list of like fake Maxwell co-defendants with a criminal trial go around? Oh yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it was like, it was just like Jay-Z and Kanye West were on it or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So like, yeah, there was someone, I feel like that's because now this is like out of, even though this is a federal trial going on that should be pretty high profile, I don't feel like it's going to be covered with the same breathlessness that Epstein was covered, you know, three years ago and two years ago. But I do think that like the move, now that it isn't in the public eye as much, the move will be to like, we'll be like, yeah, people like that will just like, yeah, you, you'll have like a fake list of co-defendants where you're like, Oh, actually, like she's on trial with like Jay-Z and like Chrissy Teigen and like all the people you, all the people, like

if you're like an online, like, like if you, if you're sort of a Q and on adjacent person, it'll be perfect for you. Because there'll be just such a wealth of, um, uh, spurious, made-up, tantalizing details to keep you sort of, uh, uh, spinning at all times. I do like this idea. And it's the perfect, it's the perfect zone flooding too. Because it's like the, I'm sure, yeah, no, like as we know, there are like actual celebrities in the flight logs and in the books, but like it, it keeps you from looking at people like

Glenn Dubin or like Leon Black, like huge finance titans and people like Bill Barr's dad. It will keep you from looking at someone like that. If you're like, Oh, when are they going to call Jay-Z to the stand? Well, I mean, just like, if there aren't that many people posting about it or talking about it, but half the people think that Jay-Z or like Meek Mill or co-defendants, that's perfect for them. I mean, I think you can see it starting a little bit already in the way this article

is framed, which is in the context of like, uh, this is now like, this is a Me Too trial. And how, and how will, how will, you know, like in the post Me Too era, how will jurors react to like, you know, a female sex criminal or a female sex victim? And it's just like, I don't think that's a really, despite the fact that this case does involve sex abuse and rape, um, I mean, yeah, like, is that really the way, is that really what's being, being adjudicated at this trial here? Um, because it's like, I'd be interested to see how her defense is going to swing this idea that she was enthralled to Jeffrey Epstein or a victim, um, just like many of the people,

uh, you know, the people she's being prosecuted on behalf of, because it was like, you know, she's just like, uh, I just want to make it clear here, um, enslaving teenagers for the purposes of blackmail scheme is not totally not my bag, baby. Uh, I would turn to jurors attention to exhibit a enslaving teenagers for the purposes of blackmail totally is my bag, baby, written by Jelaine Maxwell. No, yeah, they're going to try something called the Smithers defense. How does the Smithers defense work? It'll be like the lawyers who are getting paid like $7 million in slush funds from this

trial are just going to be like, this bitch likes Smithers, Jeffrey Epstein was Mr. Burns. I rest my case and then they'll be like, Oh, there's a gas leak in the courtroom. Ms. Dial is going to Jay-Z. Jay-Z was indicted. It says here, uh, there has been a societal shift now, and I think often men may view certain witnesses as people who could have been their sisters, their daughters, their friends, she said. And so I don't, so I haven't seen such a sharp division between how men react to victims of sexual violence versus women, but central jurors were also quizzed about possible biases

against wealthy people leading lives of luxury. Maxwell, an Oxford-educated daughter of British publishing tycoon Robert Maxwell, has an estimated net worth of about $22.5 million, and testimony will likely include accounts of how she managed Epstein's five homes, including a private island in the Caribbean. Before she was arrested in July 2020, she had been hiding out for a year in a $1 million rural New Hampshire country house that was paid for in cash. A major issue in all high-profile trials is how much media jurors may have consumed about the case. Since his death, Epstein has been the subject of a flood of news articles, podcasts, and the four-part Netflix documentary Filthy Rich, which included interviews with victims who said

Maxwell recruited young girls for him. Her defense team has long questioned whether she can get a fair trial given the cloud of massive negative publicity that surrounds the case, and potential jurors were questioned about their knowledge of Epstein and Maxwell. One man who said he had once briefly met Epstein was excused after he said the meeting led him to follow the case more than he would have. That man's name, Chris Tucker. That is like, are we ever gonna get to the bottom of that? No. That is like, that's the weirdest thing about the entire Epstein thing. Like everything else is like awful and sordid and insane. But it is like, it's like, you know what it is, right? It's like a Craig Spence type thing. Oh, this guy was running like an international blackmail thing

at the behest of intelligence agencies. But like, you know, in an ideal society, there would be like a church committee where you figure out how Chris Tucker was there. Like, what's going on here? I mean, I think you're right. I mean, that's not so much about Chris Tucker, but like the church committee like model is that like in addition to this trial, which is like, look, her legal defense is entitled to make any argument that they think will work. But like, you know, like I said earlier, but like framing this as an issue of like, oh, like a post me to case, when it's like the ramifications of this case are not about, I mean, they are about in terms of like the people who have been victimized by these two people. But like, there are there are much larger implications

about, like he said, like his connections to the heights of finance, tech, media, and most importantly, until the intelligence community, that you know, that like a trial, a trial of this nature like won't get to the bottom of but like, you know, like, is there has there has there been any hearings in Congress on like on this matter whatsoever? One of the epic senators, John Kennedy from Louisiana, who's like, he's like a Benny Johnson type senator. He like said something about Jeffrey Epstein not killing himself in like an unrelated hearing or something. And then of course, like nothing, no one, no one held any hearings or anything, nor will they. I mean, if during the R. Kelly case, it had come out that during the original, the original trial

in Chicago all those years ago for the, the tape with that girl, if it had turned out like the prosecutor or the judge in that case had been like, Oh, I had orders like not to pursue it that much because like a guy higher up at DOJ was a fan. You would have heard about that. But a cost of being like intelligence told me he's off limits that just nothing, nothing, even in this coverage, we don't hear about that. That was just an aside. That was an aside that we've like, we've never gone back to and there will not be hearings about it because again, like this isn't people aren't talking or thinking about this in the same way that they were three years ago, which is pretty favorable for them. And they're able to flood the zone with like just complete fucking

bullshit with the remaining people who are talking about it. And just like the way, like I said, the way that this article is presented about like, oh, like, you know, well, could it, could it possibly be that jurors will think she's the victim too? Like left unsaid being like, you know, the implication that like, oh, like maybe she is a victim. And the fact that this is in Bloomberg opinion, Bloomberg, the media outlet named for Michael Bloomberg, who has featured at least 30 photos with Jelaine Maxwell at various parties and social functions. Yeah. But I mean, that has been, that's been like all over the coverage. Like, do you remember like Vicki, Vicki Ward, who wrote like, like the Daily Beast article that

people like attribute with like kicking, like kicking a lot of the shit off? Like, did she like fucking hang out with Gil? They were like, they're like, oh, everyone knows her. But yeah, like, I just get as curious on the way this Bloomberg article seems to be framing the case as the trial actually begins. But to move on from that, I would like to take some time now to look into like in terms of the way this case is being framed. So the trial started today. And last week, The New York Times wrote a big article based on newly released records, a headline Epstein's Final Days, Celebrity Reminiscing and a Running Toilet. The point of the article is to be that like they looked at the case again, and based on new documents, they can say again, that he

definitely did kill himself. And, you know, obviously, the timing of this is quite obvious. But nonetheless, this is a very interesting article, both for what it does say and what it doesn't say. And I think it's, I know I alluded to it on last week's episode, but there's a lot here that I think is worth going into. So this is a big splashy piece in The New York Times. Newly released records show the disgraced financier living a mundane existence in jail before his suicide, while also spinning deceptions until the very end. The deception here that he is spinning seems to be that he was murdered. Like that he killed himself, but in doing so, he was like, it continued to perpetrate this world of deception and illusions that he catered to and was a part

of. He was doing like an epic prank, basically. Yeah. It says here, the article begins, the disgraced financier jailed in Manhattan on federal sex trafficking charges involving teenage girls was found unconscious on the floor of a cell one morning in July, 2019, a strip of bedsheet tied around his bruised neck. In the hours and days that followed the suicide attempt, Jeffrey Epstein would claim to be living a wonderful life, denying any thoughts of ending it, even as he sat on suicide watch and faced daunting legal troubles. I have no interest in killing myself, Mr. Epstein told a jailhouse psychologist, according to Bureau of Prison's documents that have not been previously made public. He was, quote, a coward and did not like pain, he explained. I would not do that to

myself. But two weeks later, he did just that. He died in his cell on August 10th in the Metropolitan Correction Center, having hanged himself with a bedsheet the medical examiner ruled. After a life of manipulation, Mr. Epstein created illusions until the very end, deceiving correctional officers, counselors, and specifically trained inmates assigned to monitor him around the clock, according to the documents, among more than 2000 pages of Federal Bureau of Prison's records obtained by the New York Times after filing a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit. The detailed notes and reports compiled by those who interacted with Mr. Epstein during his 36 days of detention show how he repeatedly assured them he had much to live for while also hinting that he was increasingly

despondent. The clues prompted too little action by jail and bureau officials who made mistake after mistake leading up to Mr. Epstein's death, the records reveal. He says he passed many days closed in a conference room with his lawyers, avoiding the confines of his dank and dirty cell. In conversations with psychologists and other inmates, he spoke of his interest in physics and mathematics and offered tidbits of investment advice. He reminisced about socializing with celebrities even as he complained about the running toilet in his cell, the orange prison guard, Garb, his difficulty sleeping, his dehydration, and a numbness in his right arm. I feel like even in prison he's still trying to recruit people for the various scams and it's like money shenanigans

that he was up to and doing it by being like oh you should definitely consider um uh investing with me. I know Kevin Spacey. I hung out with him. Prison has to be like I mean no one wants to go to prison but for like a middle-aged Jewish guy it's kind of like you know it's said that like Biden actually loves it when bad things happen to him because he's Catholic like that's the Catholic thing. I think for a Jewish guy like a jail like there's a lot to complain about. You can complain non-stop. You can natter at people and they can't go anywhere. My bed's small. The food is terrible in such small portions. There's a breeze and you'd be right. There would be. That's why I really don't believe that when I'm elected as senator from New York and do finally hold these hearings

I'll be like he wouldn't have killed himself because the Jewish guy that age would love jail. There's so much he could have whined about. I mean it's okay. I'm that age now. I'm 60 when I get elected. Going on here it says the newly obtained records offer no support to the explosion of conspiracy theories that Mr. Epstein's death was not a suicide. They also shed no light on questions raised by his brother and one of his lawyers that he might have been assisted in killing himself but they do paint a picture of incompetence and sloppiness by some within the Bureau of Prisons which runs the Federal Detention Center. An intake screening form erroneously described Mr. Epstein as a black male and then in parentheses he was white and indicated that he had

and indicated that he had no prior sex offense convictions even though he was a registered sex offender with two 2008 convictions in Florida for solicitation of prosecution prostitution and procurement of minors to engage in prostitution. A few social phone calls were made he made were not recorded, logged or monitored record show an apparent violation of jail policy. Just that paragraph alone right there is very telling and I understand the people that are writing this like they set it up to be like you know there's been no evidence that he killed himself but what there is evidence of is a ton of bungles on behalf of the Bureau of Prisons and I just gotta say I mean one of these things would be pretty ridiculous. I mean

entering him into the system as a black man is pretty fucking funny. It's almost like they were sort of trying to lose track of him and then logging him into prison as someone without any prior sex offenses also a bit strange and then the fact that his phone calls were not being recorded or monitored on a number of occasions I gotta say one of these mungles okay understandable two okay that's something smells funny but like all three of those like I said the details in this story I think are telling in a way it's like that with someone who wrote this article like trying to make the opposite case because like I think there's a number of these telling details in here like the fact that he kept telling his psychologist quote I have no interest in killing myself over

and over again. Yeah the phone calls one is the one that sticks out the most to me because it's like you know I don't know yeah whether the individuals that wrote this article whether they had to write it that way or whether you know they're they're along for the ride but like oh yeah just that just another oversight that they didn't record this specific guy's phone calls amidst everything else I mean it does it does make me think of uh people kind of discarded this one people aren't as into this one anymore but it was pretty big a couple years ago the theory that he didn't act like he's not dead yeah it does make you think of that one that one's pretty interesting it says here the night he killed himself Mr. Epstein lied to jail officials and said he wanted

to phone his mother who was long dead he instead called his girlfriend jail personnel left him alone in his cell that night despite an explicit directive that he didn't be assigned a cellmate I mean I mean like I read this whole article now and they just they just set up bungle after bungle on behalf of the Bureau of Prisons but like there is no effort in this article to like I don't know drill down on any of the people who made these fucking errors like the fact that the most high profile inmate in federal custody could just tell his jailers I'd like to call my mom and have them not be aware that his mom is dead like I said I mean I could see that happening for someone who was just booked for like drunk driving or something like that but not a case

like this I mean the only way it works is if you're basically saying you don't understand that nobody's calls are getting recorded nobody's information is being recorded correctly this is literally a bunch of submental dipshits just banging into each other and getting paid to do so and but the thing is if that's the case then why the hell should any argument be credited that says that somebody couldn't have gone in there and fucking killed the guy yeah yeah yeah and and also I mean the recorded calls thing we know for a fact that's not true because people in New York like they've had things from their jail phone calls rolled into their recos yeah in a lot of gang cases so we know that's not fucking true like in the past few years in the

same time frame but yeah as Matt said yeah it sounds like wow I mean yeah it sounds like you're running a lose ship where fucking Les Wexner could kill anyone in there for what like 50 000 dollars yeah yeah you're making an argument that that is such a a poorly supervised and underfunded thing which I believe that I can't believe anything you say about uh who was allowed near the fucking cell uh how closely it was supervised I can't have any faith that that that anybody with a little bit of money and motivation couldn't just do whatever they wanted in there yeah exactly like exactly this entire article is like oh yeah and for like um two for like three weeks he was in a blanket fort um and we like we couldn't find him and then

another week he told us all to close our eyes and just walked around and like left and came back but like if someone came in here we'd know no I mean like like okay like so the sorry just read this once again he said um uh the night he killed himself uh mr. Epstein lied to jail officials and said he wanted to phone his mother so he's in his cell and then he's just like guard guard I'd like to call my mom I'd like to talk to my mommy right now like does anything you know about how you're treated in prison or even just a waiting trial in this country jibe with the idea that he was like like all the fucking that he was just allowed to like just be like hey can I call my mom I'd like I'd like my own cell please and they're just like yeah okay sure I mean they might

also be saying in addition to these bungles um and you know on several nights uh during this day in the mcc uh during night all the all the doors became unlocked it's for several several hours um it says here uh two days after the suicide william p bar then the u.s attorney general said that there were serious irregularities at the correctional center but did not elaborate he later blamed a perfect storm of screw ups I hate those perfect storms of screw ups a 15 page psychological reconstruction of mr. Epstein's death compiled by bureau officials five weeks later and never before made public concluded that his identity quote appeared to be based on his wealth power and association with other high-profile individuals the lack of significant interpersonal

connections a complete loss of his status in both the community and among associates and the idea of potentially spending life his life in prison the postmortem continued were likely factors contributing to mr. Epstein's suicide well I mean for that bulletproof fucking bit of uh mind-hunting right there is a profile that one could write of virtually anyone incarcerated yeah it's like hey their self-worth was defined by not being in jail all the other things that made life worth living for them involved uh not being in a small cell with other guys being able to leave your room when they wanted to the inspector general's report recommends that all inmates read ad busters you are not your fucking table uh yeah no he he seemed he seemed happy and in

good spirits until he was facing 20 years to life in federal prison um yeah I think one of the factors that contributed to this uh the state of despondence was going from a a very very high level of comfort and luxury to a comparatively very very low level of comfort and luxury and in fact when I say none at all in like in the most squalid conditions imaginable going on here it says the times obtained the materials after suing the bureau of prisons which had repeatedly rejected its public records requests as part of a settlement the agency agreed to turn over internal memos and emails visitor logs handwritten notes from inmates and the psychological reconstruction of mr. Epstein's death many of the documents were heavily redacted some were withheld entirely

including a number of records associated with the earlier suicide attempt all right so we have a very full picture here of his mental health in the in the days and hours leading up to his suicide uh are you going on here it says talking about celebs this this is a sub-head mr. Epstein stayed at the detention center began on saturday july 6 2019 after his arrest at teterboro airport in new jersey where he'd arrived from paris on a private jet um going on it says um he initially was placed in the general inmate population the jail's least restrictive area in an internal email okay keep in mind here it says okay so he was arrested one of the most high-profile cases in u.s history he's arrested at teterboro airport after coming

back from on his plane after coming back from paris so significant flight risk they okay he's arrested we know from earlier in the article he's then logged into prison as a black man with no sex offenses on his record and then is immediately put in general population quote the least restrictive part of the prison do the earlier uh do the earlier fuck ups in this perfect storm of bungles begin to like i don't know take on a different light here i don't know just just asking questions it says here uh in an internal email hugh here hugh herwitz then the bureau of prisons acting director later attributed this to an oversight by the u.s marshall service reyland what did i tell you reyland well you know oh god it's just you know he he saw a sexy lady before

you logged him in and then he doth did he took like tip this cat and said hat and said ma'am i hate to admit it but yeah reyland gibbons would completely fuck this case up oh my god he would fuck gillain like before the case like completely honey trap not even realizing it he would lose epstein like 40 times he would make it so he would make it so like oh oh it's really weird i have to have an old west shootout at an abandoned public school in upstate new york against les wexner's goons the last thing i wanted to do says apparently the u.s marshall service did not indicate that he was a high profile inmate and staff were unaware that he was coming so no plans had been established he wrote the look i i will i will accept a lot you can get you can this is

the brilliance of this because you can get a really long way with the argument that like every single institution that like governs american life is run by absolute fucking numskulls who have no idea what they're doing yeah i buy it yeah the plausible i get it i get it but like like the fucking the fbi or the us marshall service if they were booking someone into jail on like a minor drug trafficking charge they would have this shit sewn the fuck up i mean it's just like the incompetence things only goes so far when you see so many other people getting fucking nailed to the wall with every milk possible millimeter covered of just squashing out their life and throwing them into the carceral system that like i just don't buy this idea that the us marshalls are just like

yeah sorry we've got to tell anyone he was coming and then logged him in as a black guy it says uh that evening according to the postmortem reconstruction a facilities assistant found mr epstein in his giselle looking distraught sad and a little confused she sent an email to three jail officials when the assistant asked if he was okay he said he was but she was not convinced she wrote he seemed dazed and withdrawn she added just to be on the safe side and prevent any suicidal thoughts can someone from psychology come and talk with him no one did it first according to records okay so let's just go back here so um that us marshalls forgot to forgot to tell anyone he was a high profile inmate uh he was booked into prison as a basically as a completely

different individual in general population and then from the minute he was in jail we have a paper trail being created of people writing and official emails he looks sad he looks withdrawn he looks like he's sort of lost the will to live better check up on that and send a psychologist to you know further backstop this alibi here you know what i mean like it's just sort of like a narrative is already being constructed and this is what i find interesting about this article here yeah they should they let him watch the ending of game of thrones so he would feel all sad and vaguely confused very devilish on sunday july 7th the centers warden uh lamine uh nade properly identified mr eppstein as a high

pro as high profile and had him moved moved to the special housing unit or shoo on the ninth floor out of concerns for his personal safety in general population according to mr herwitz's email but it was not until 9 30 a.m that monday that mr eppstein was taken for an initial psychological evaluation as had been suggested when he arrived that afternoon mr eppstein was set to make his first court appearance anticipating that he would be denied bail the jail's chief psychologist recommended that he be evaluated evaluated for suicide risk upon his return given the media attention and nature of the charges i mean like do you know how many people kill themselves in rikers island every year like i mean like a or is is the teenager who has uh been in rikers for

five years for hopping a turnstile that everyone forgot about i mean are like when they're booked they go god he looks sad do you think the fact that um he's being lost in this kafka s nightmare with like no hope for the future or ever getting out or even knowing what he's charged with would lead him to kill himself i don't know let's book him sometime with a psychologist it's just like you said at the same time it's like everyone is perfectly incompetent but there's this like boutique psychological treatment for every fucking uh every inmate that's awaiting like our serious charges or maybe denied bail i mean like again you can believe everyone's incompetent but like what we know about the u.s prison system is that it is like comprehensively hell on earth

for everyone involved in it and then there's just all these emails being like he looks sad let me cheer him up is there anything we can do for the guy he's so down yeah they had um they had um nba young boy who's a pretty popular rapper they had him in federal lockup in utah for from march until like last month i do not remember anything like this about him and his charge was way less serious no one seemed to lose track of him either interestingly yeah inmate epstein will likely be receiving bad news in court today and has multiple risk factors for suicidality as identified by b.o.p. statistics the psychologist wrote let's be proactive i mean i i'm sorry like bureau federal bureau prison officials i do not believe that they are proactive

and like it's sort of buttressing the mental health of people trapped in their gulags all right most of the yeah most of their prisons are designed to make people want to kill themselves uh so this goes um mr. Epstein spent his nights pacing his cell sleeping footfully and talking with other inmates according to handwritten notes taken by those observing him often the entries were mundane epstein is drinking water at the sink but some were more evocative suggesting at once his grim predicament and his unrealistic expectations epstein is sitting on the edge of the bed with his head in the palm of his hands one inmate wrote on july 29th i mean i would imagine that would be like a common position for you if you're in a jail cell awaiting fucking trial for sex trafficking or

anything it's just like wow this confluence of details just seemingly seems to add up that he was really not happy being in jail in conversations with his minders mr. Epstein seemed to stick to subjects that would convey the impression he was approachable yet well connected and successful Epstein and i are talking about the escort business an inmate wrote eight o'clock one evening an hour later Epstein and i are talking about arbitrage 30 minutes more Epstein is talking about celebs he knows the notes do not name any of the celebrities those are all the redacted documents that the new york times couldn't get access to do they have vicki warden there in a d u i what the fuck in another inmate in another entry an inmate noted that he and mr. Epstein

had talked about driving taxis in new york we both drove the inmate pointed out throughout it all mr. Epstein remained curious about his surroundings on one of the first evenings he asked an inmate whose name was redacted from the records about the kinds of crazy things he had seen in jail close to midnight an inmate reported mr. Epstein was offered dinner but refused it because it was nasty he is right the next the next subhead for this new york times article is the quote being alive is fun well what's up man okay on the morning of tuesday july 9th mr. Epstein underwent the requested formal in-person suicide risk evaluation the psychologist whose name is redacted from the documents it's actually jolly west probably uh the psychologist whose name was

redacted from the documents found mr. Epstein to be polite cooperative organized coherent and even showing a sense of humor Epstein adamantly denied any suicidal ideation intention or plan she wrote in her notes he requested a phone call a meeting with his lawyer a shower and to brush his teeth mr. Epstein described himself to her as a banker with big business and said that being alive is fun he denied having sexually abused anyone and said he would have had a would have a renewed bail hearing the next week where he believed he would be released he was future oriented the psychologist wrote she concluded that suicide watch was not warranted but that out of an abundance of caution mr. Epstein should remain on psychological observation

the next day mr. Epstein asked to be single-celled but was told he could not be housed alone for safety and security concerns and the day after that a psychologist wrote he was smirking and said why would you ever think i would be suicidal i'm not suicidal and i would never be once again we have this thing we're like a prison psychologist and the prison itself are noting in the official record in their log entries over and over again that he seems sad despondent um but you know like also like unrealistic expectations about like his future and then Epstein knowing who he is and what he probably knew made very sure to say to his jailers and psychologists over and over again that i'm not suicidal and i love being alive life fucking rocks dude it's my favorite never kill

myself i love life my life a movie my life in a legal movie the logs are always goes here the logs are also revealing for what they lack any sign of visits by the famous and wealthy friends he socialized with after his 2008 sex offense convictions in florida instead the logs show a far more mundane cast of visitors including a parade of lawyers on july 18th it became apparent that mr. Epstein was unlikely to return to his former life and friends anytime soon if ever when judge richard and burman denied a renewed bail request five days later in the early morning hours of july 23rd mr. Epstein made his suicide attempt the denial of bail was cited as a significant disappointment for mr. Epstein and likely challenged his ability and

willingness to adapt to incarceration and cornering according to the post-mortem psychological reconstruction given the potential impact of the judge's decision a psychologist should have assessed mr. Epstein's mental status upon his return to the institution it said he was removed from suicide watch after about 31 hours according to the documents and again placed on psychological observation do they talk about that psycho yeah that's the suicide attempt they're talking about that guy yeah no that's what i was saying like it's very unclear in this in this article they're like the first suicide attempt that didn't work and then he was like not placed on suicide watch after that i think they're referring to that roided out long island cop that murdered all

those people for the cartel and fucking tried to kill him yes no that's exactly the thing they're talking about it was not a suicide attempt yet the evil mr. clean yeah the guy who he was bearing people in his front yard in westchester and like again like they don't like there's not a lot of details about this first suicide attempt other than that he was taken off suicide watch yeah uh he goes in conversations with people from psychological services over the next week mr. Epstein repeatedly denied having suicidal thoughts he smiled and cracked jokes he told them he was jewish and suicide was against his religion felix's theory is being further further uh further buttressed by uh the the the the documents here i will be the new frank church

i will be the senator from new york he also reiterated complaints about the running toilet in his cell which left him feeling agitated for hours he said he sat in the corner and held his ears as psychologists wrote mr. Epstein speculated that he might have autism noticed noting that dustin hoffman's autistic character and rain man had an aversion to noise that's when the inmate notes get more specific yeah he talked to me about beyblade for six hours knew the name of every bionicle um some within the justice system uh voice concerns about his mental state federal marshals who had escorted him to a july 31st court hearing returned with a prisoner custody alert notice which said mr. Epstein might have suicidal tendencies

i turns out he was just wearing a t-shirt of his favorite band suicidal tendencies this prompted another suicide risk assessment by a psychologist mr. Epstein again denied having suicidal thoughts the psychologist was persuaded according to the documents writing that a suicide watch was not warranted he stated he lives for and plans to finish this case and go back to his normal life the psychologist wrote among the documents attained by the times was an undated sign on an orange paper that read mandatory rounds must be conducted every 30 minutes on Epstein prisoner number 76318-054 as per god god the word mandatory was misspelled an underlined in pen and the question mark was written after it the records offered no explanation of the sign and

bureau officials declined to answer questions about it Epstein as per god exclamation point exclamation point exclamation point mandatory misspelled this is like the lionel hut's card no money down okay so the last day when he arrived back in the shoe on july 30th mr. Epstein was given a a cellmate f from reyes a prisoner who was assisting the government in a drug distribution conspiracy case mr. Epstein complained that the man's talking kept him awake at night that all changed on august 9th when mr. Reyes was transferred out of the jail and the staff was alerted that mr. Epstein would need a new cellmate we know what's coming i mean he got a new cellmate that's for sure yeah um the same day the day before mr. Epstein died as he huddled with his lawyers

in a conference room a federal appeals court unsealed about 2 000 pages of previously confidential documents in a defamation lawsuit against julaine maxwell his longtime associate and former girlfriend miss maxwell who was charged last year with sex trafficking and other offenses faces trial this month in manhattan the materials revealed highly disturbing details that mr. Epstein's alleged sex trafficking ring including graphic depositions police reports and an amazon receipt for books like training with miss abernathy a workbook for erotic slaves and their owners officials later surmised in the psychological reconstruction that the document released worsened his mental state further eroding his previously enjoyed elevated status and potentially implicating some of his

associates i mean i don't buy this he's been booked for sex trafficking charges in prison i don't think his status could erode any further at that point however the note about implicating potential some of his associates is interesting to me that evening according to the reconstruction a unit manager at the detention center helped mr. Epstein make a social phone call again like are you allowed to make just i mean i guess you are allowed phone time prison but like i don't know this just seems like he's just asking people hey can i make a phone call and they're like sure it's like it's fucking like camp or something i don't know the manager dialed mr. Epstein and let him speak for 15 minutes the call was not properly logged and does not appear to have been recorded it is not

clear from the documents whether the call was on a monitored line i asked inmate Epstein who he was calling the unit manager wrote he stated his mother mr. Epstein's mother died in 2004 the call was his 30 year old girlfriend whom he had helped put through dental school this said three people with knowledge of the phone conversation i mean if this call wasn't logged or monitored how would any three people have knowledge of the conversation and who are these people interesting question who are these people mr. Epstein they said gave no indication during the call that he planned to kill himself the call that night however was not included in the phone logs provided to the times by the bureau of prisons the log show only one call social only one social call during his day

more than a week earlier to miss shuliac his girlfriend after finishing the call mr. Epstein returned to his cell where he was alone because no new cellmate had yet been assigned he was also left unmonitored by two officers on duty whom prosecutors later accused of spending their time surfing the internet and appearing to be asleep a psychological profile later revealed that the guards were sleeping in a hammock with a single feather and perpetually pushed up and down as they went this may the two officers entered into a deferred prosecution agreement on charges they had falsified jail records about checking on mr. Epstein at 6 30 the next morning he was found with a bed sheet tied around his neck like a noose he was pronounced dead an hour later

about two months after mr. Epstein's death an inmate who appears to have worked in the kitchen emailed the psychology department about a conversation he had with a man whose cell had been next to mr. Epstein's he said the other inmate had told him jeffrey Epstein definitely killed himself any conspiracy theories to the contrary are ridiculous the man had heard mr. Epstein tearing up his sheet before committing suicide the kitchen worker wrote he wanted to kill himself and seize the opportunity when it was available he added such as life or death in this case that's the end of the article the end of the article is a detail about how a guy who worked in the kitchen emailed the psychology department about a conversation he had with a

man whose cell had been next to Epstein's and that man that man's opinion or that man's just stating for the record that Epstein quote definitely killed himself and the evidence for this is that the guy he talked to had been the cell next to Epstein heard him tearing up sheets before committing suicide well i mean he could have heard someone tearing up the sheets but i mean oh he heard him he was saying uh i'm i'm jeffrey Epstein and i love tearing sheets before i kill myself it's my favorite thing to do i used to love being alive but this is actually even better being dead being dead is awesome being dead is the new being alive rules i mean again like i it's it's so weird that the new york times published this article like you know the week before

gelane's case and on the we end on the anniversary of the kennedy assassination too very funny but like i can't help but think that this article is written to give you the unmistakable conclusion that Epstein absolutely was murdered in prison because the constellation of details in this article that are supposedly exonerating or like you know uh case closed on any conspiracy theory are so fucking strange and then the conclusion in the last paragraph of this like jailhouse informant two degrees of separation away from jeffrey Epstein is the final word on the fact that he definitely killed himself is so fucking odd it's either they're not trying at all and they don't care because they don't have to try or they're trying to send coded messages to true seers

and investigators in this case because again like the constellation of details here is so odd about how he kept telling people on the record that he didn't want to kill himself and look i mean like you may say that and then may end up killing yourself because like you know you're in jail and facing life behind bars okay fair enough but then the fact that jail officials even after his first suicide attempt kept taking him on and off suicide watch and then kept creating this weird paper trail where they were like yeah this guy definitely might kill himself better just follow up on that and then didn't follow up on it ever but had emails just saying it's sort of likely this guy's going to kill himself right we should probably you know take pro even though he keeps

saying he doesn't want to even though he's pretty adamant in the words that he says that he doesn't want to do it very strange but i would say very fascinating uh news article here by the new york times and just like the like the fact that they're like oh this is based on all these new documents that we got by the way many of those documents were heavily redacted and not released to us yeah and also there's no explanation for like why all these like the the last phone call he made before he died was not logged or monitored by anyone but sources assure them it was his girlfriend well i mean uh you know what i make of all this i mean it's just it's uh how you could read this article and come away thinking that he wasn't murdered is astonishing to me i'm sorry but

the guy who was was in the kitchen uh and heard from the other guy who was next to him said that he did which is evidence that if you were to use it to claim a conspiracy would absolutely be accepted by the new york times in the bloomberg opinion article they talked to el chapo's lawyer who you know as a high-profile inmate facing a high-profile trial went through a similar process i would just like to compare the details of their incarceration what do you think the chances are that any of el chapo's calls to his mother girlfriend friends associates social calls were not monitored and logged by the bureau of prisons i mean if that's the case i'd love to know about it another spectacular bungle on their part what are the chances that el chapo could have

killed himself in that jail cell or that the guards were told to check up on him every half an hour to make sure he doesn't hang himself we're just sleeping all night or surfing the internet what are the chances that if he did kill himself or died under mysterious circumstances they could talk to like a guy who talked to a guy who was just like yeah don't worry about it what what about again like i'll go back again what about like what you know firsthand of or what you've simply read about or know through like just just your gut feeling about what it's like to be in carcer what it's like to be in print like in in in jail awaiting trial in this country at like rikers or the mcc or any of these facilities or you're like held but you know denied bail

awaiting trial like does the portrayal of his treatment by the bureau of prisons line up with just what your gut feeling or what you've read about what it's like to be incarcerated in this country is does it line up would you say and again does al chopo's being held in custody in a very similar facility who made it to every fucking minute of his trial and is now i think in what adx florence or something and now in super max like how come none of the guys in super max have been able to kill themselves yet the unabomber like any any of these guys like you think they might want to kill himself after being like in a closet 23 hours a day for the rest of their lives but for some reason that's impossible for them to do oh right because it's like it's these facilities are

designed to make sure that you can never end your suffering while while at the same time making you want to kill yourself every second of the day that you're awake doesn't add up i mean like doesn't add up right no no well i do i do really like my favorite like interpretation of this whole affair is when people take like the elizabeth warren approach to it where they're like there are some structural issues with prisons and it's like well yeah no shit but like i don't i don't think that's all of the thing here i think you're kind of missing the forest for the trees i mean like i mean it's it is it's like mostly out of public conversation so they got what they wanted yeah like i said if if you were just you know if you were sent to rakers because of like you know some

fucking uh some misdemeanor that was never fucking adjudicated or some petty crime or something like that and they just like lose you in the system like you know there are there are dozens of examples of like teenagers being sent to rikers island and then just forgotten about like not even charged with a felony who have been there for years in like the most nightmarish conditions imaginable for a person and then when you make like when you set up this idea that like you know everyone is just so fucking bad at their jobs that like anything can happen like okay true that happens every day we see that all the fucking time but like there are so many examples of like the government or these same institutions being one thousand percent on point when they want to be

it's just a question of like when well when do they get to be incompetent and just like you know the keystone cops and when do they get to be like the most powerful government in the world and i think the disparity between when and who this happens to is quite telling so there we go that's a that's that's the the life and death of the jeffrey ebbstein um good luck to gelane on the uh the trial uh best of luck to her and her attorneys and and to everyone on the jury because you know i mean it would suck not being able to if you said read articles or watch the news for as long as this case takes um we do we do have some good news to close that on was that the the uh obama clinton installed narco government of honduras was defeated shimora castrow

become the oh right yeah male leader of honduras uh that's pretty cool that is good news um yeah no this is this is literally the government that hillary clinton like oversaw a coup of yeah she see a way though uh castrow is the wife of the president who was deposed in that coup and uh yeah this is also a big uh lanny davis thing honduras in 2009 so this is it has been a lot of doom and gloom lately but it is not this is something that's nice to see even though it's correcting something terrible that's been done to the that country for over a decade um also good news uh matt you saw the new ghostbusters can you give us just a little hint of muncher i gotta say muncher surprised me uh so uh muncher you know miserable green creature it was originally in the promotional

footage that was first debuted i think five years ago now uh was in a cornfield and i stupidly assumed oh this the muncher he munches corn he he's sort of an avatar for america in our obsession with miserably choking down corn slurry uh but i watched the movie and muncher actually does not munch corn uh muncher eats metal which means really more of a avatar for deindustrialization i guess but i think even more interesting than that is that and this is a spoiler alert so you can stop listening if you're really invested in seeing the full muncher displayed the kid the ghostbusters in this movie are children okay it's it's the grandchild's daughter of uh of egon spangler and uh the the grandchildren of egon spangler and their friend who is named podcast what's up

and they find muncher in an abandoned i think like ethanol refinery and they try to bust him and he shoots at them with the with the metal that he chews which means he's basically trying to murder them because like their bullets they're firing at like speed and the kids have to like duck down so he's essentially a mass shooter so once again another facet of the american experience contained in his his disgusting blue form um did josh gad provide the grunts and squeals from you know he did so we got so gad is in ghostbusters we got the gad grunts we got the gad squeals also ghost herald ramus in a sequence towards the end that is legitimately upsetting i mean did he die like a long time before this movie was being made is it a few years ago yeah okay he died he died

before the um the lady ghostbusters okay so this is this is just pure cgi herald ramus oh yeah oh oh boy oh boy he's like hey everybody i'm i'm in hell i'm back back from hell here it's weird because he's a ghost and at the end he comes in to help them bust other ghosts so he is sort of a ghost uncle tom he's he's a scab gad also provides the grunts of squeals of ramus just interesting fact wait gad does herald ramus's voice okay it'd be great no there's no he doesn't say anything i guess they thought that would be a little a bridge too far wait wait wait it's just it's just an image it's just an image of herald ramus like a cgi like cutscene herald ramus just waving no he helps bust a ghost but he doesn't see his grand kid at one point oh but he doesn't

see goes on way too long i i just i'm there was gonna be seen like that in the movie and i thought it was gonna be just a brief yeah like a waving sort of anakin at the end of uh return of the Jedi but no it's like an extended sequence but but but in silence he doesn't talk he doesn't talk no like grandpa we've missed you yeah it just stands there although not as haunting as uh the images of the actual still alive ghostbusters wearing their ghostbuster outfits and looking at all of them like they're begging for death it would be cool to do um you you like make the jeffrey eppstein movie and it's like it's like sotterberg and like it like looks really good but then they're like wait till you see who we have playing jeffrey eppstein and there's a big reveal and you see it

at the end of the trailer and it's gad gad provides the grunts and squeals of ex eppstein as he's being struggled by deep state operatives i would that's how i would do it yeah if i was a director would be would be pretty good eppstein is singing a song well whether he was murdered or committed suicide he's with muncher now he's with muncher he's he's he's he's munching that's true uh all right well uh like i said yeah that does have for today's episode everybody till next time boys bye bye till next time bye ever since mr eppstein passed away it's never been the same i mean we've been very negative since mr eppstein passed away

there really is no one there now