Chapo Trap House - 640 - Roe Wasn’t Burnt in a Day (6/28/22)

Episode Date: June 28, 2022

The crew discusses the massive news of the Supreme Court’s decision to overturn Roe. We talk about the overt evils and incompetent failures that got us to this point, the immediate reactions from various parties, and what may lie in the future.

What are you seeing? Well, the spikes on my thing are looking somewhat small. Should I turn up my gain? You got a small spike coming. You got tiny ass spikes. What? You will got the tiny ass spikes. Look at this motherfucker.

Urgent, this is Nancy Pelosi. Will's spikes are smaller than ever. If you help out, they have never seen spikes this small. I'm 193 years old. My husband just drunk-rove wall Benny Hill music this plan. He crashed right into a vineyard. And his pants fell down. And he burst open a wine casket.

And his erect cock went right into the hole. And his eyes bugged out as wine went down his urethra. He's 107 years old. I've never seen anything like this. I've never seen the country in such a state. Can you send $25? Your levels look good, Will. All I've got is hip-chop.

All I've got is hip-chop. We've got hip-chops. All I've got is hip-chop. All I've got is hip-chop. All right, so to officially start the show, it's Chapo Monday, June 27. And we've got a full house here today. I mean, the topic of today's show,

I pretty much could guess off the bat where we're going to be spending more. I was gone over the weekend. Did something happen? I was in San Francisco at Pride. I've been looking at my fundraising emails. And I know they're really still into that January 6 thing. Did something happen?

Well, yeah, Amber, if I could get serious for a second, it's just like it's this feeling, this pit in my stomach of something that I was dreading for a long time, but sort of knew was going to happen. And then it happens. And the question is, what do we and the nation make of this? So I'll just throw it out to you guys now. What are we going to do now that Stav has left come down?

There's a fat hole in my heart. What are we going to do without his raucous, mirthful laughter? You guys forget the Stav bot exists. Oh, God, that's right. A cupcake and a candy bar. He was made redundant many years ago. Nick needs to just get like a keytar made with the Stav bot and just go on tour and do like a concert where he's just

riffing on it. I am 95% sure Nick already owns a keytar. Yeah, it seems like something he would buy. He would find a way to get a keytar that's $10,000 for some reason. Luckily, though, I've heard rumors. I've heard tell that they're drafting a replacement off Twitter.

Who has the best replies to Adam? Who's the funniest reply to Adam? And by the way, the remaining hosts, they still think it's funny when you call him the gay bug on Twitter. It's good. It's good shit. The more you do it, the higher up on the rankings you get

to get eventually off of the job. It's beautiful because it never gets old. Like it's it's the most beautiful. It's like a fine wine. Yeah, well, they should do like, OK, so they should in their RSS feed, they should have like a golden episode that you get. And they pick five people, five come town listeners.

And it's like, you know, obviously it's you know, you got the you got the stereotypes like you have in Willy Wonka, like you have a Midwestern corn fed guy who calls Adam a gay bug. You have sort of a Brazilian, German, Italian, Brazilian type who's still posting Pepe. He's like three frogs behind. Like most South American right wingers, some type of like some

type of Brit, like an alarming Brit. And then, you know, let's spice it up. It's 2022. How about a listener from Japan and then one from Vatican City, an illegitimate child born in Vatican City. And that's the Charlie. And they have to tour where come town is recorded. And four of them are killed.

And then one of them becomes tough. And every 1000s and every 1000s, the blue chew packet, there's a golden ticket to the come town factory where all the come is produced. There's a river of come. Yeah, the Brazil, the Brazilian just gets rolled. Yeah, he falls into the he falls into the river of liquid blue chew and gets priapism so bad.

All the blood drains from his brain and he does. Oh, no. All right. Well, so yeah, Roe v. Wade was overturned on Friday. Oh, that thing, by the way, I honestly feel like how you look at what happened and the response to it. I don't know how it isn't clear to everybody that the leak of the opinion was absolutely done by one of the people

who works for the conservative thing. Yeah, correct. I mean, it wouldn't have probably mattered either way, but like they guaranteed that any like popular revulsion would get just like plenty of time to ooze out and the Democrats could show their hand about how they would respond to it, i.e. they would not and ensure that you could drop the thing and know that it would stick.

Well, no, they did respond to it. And then they're like, you need to give us money. We need money to fight. That's just it. Like they know that there's nothing that Democrats will do to actually impede their ability to, you know, enforce this now forever because yeah, all they can do is ask for money, which can only go to what?

Help not elect Democrats? That's the thing. The money doesn't elect Democrats even even if you thought it was going to work. The thing is broken. How many millions of dollars was spent on failed Senate campaigns in 2020? This is literally just a way to keep this like parasitic class

of party apparatchiks paid. Yeah, I think at this point they're just burning it to heat Nancy Pelosi's home. I have to say that I noticed just and I I can't unsubscribe from these PAC emails because they they're like a weird weather vane for me and I subscribed to like some of the psychotic ones and some of the sort of more mainstream bigger ones.

I saw and whatever this is anecdotal, I saw less appeals for fundraising after it was overturned because it's they just basic. I think they just threw in the towel on that one. I've seen more on January 6 hearings since it happened. And again, only been a couple of days. Wait a second. Wait a second.

Did you know that there's going to be a surprise guest at a surprise January 6 hearing tomorrow that's going to blow the lid off abortion rights in this country. It's coming back. They okay, they're they're getting Clarence Thomas's wife to testify and she's going to resign from his marriage and life. And he's going to then resign and commit Harry Carey because

of the dishonor that he's done to the work of the country. And then boom, we're engraving what's the word they like to use straightforward from here. Yeah, yeah, he's going to use the ceremonial family sword that shaped like a pub. Well, the fundraising, the fundraising bricked, though. So after the memo was leaked, they raised less funds in a weekend than they did in the hour after RBG died, which is,

you know, there's always going to be enough money to pay for TV ads that don't fucking do anything that pay for consultants, but they're getting diminishing returns. You can only get elected and do barely anything so many times before you tap people out. And to to that end, I feel like I feel like there is a current of dissatisfaction with the younger, the under 30 lives, the people who for, you know, good hearted reasons

spent their hard earned time and money to go to Georgia in January of 2021 and elect, elect Warnock and Osof, they're now waking up to the way that the Democratic Party operates more or less. That's probably not going to really result in anything. But I do feel bad for those people, and they're certainly paying less dividends to the Democratic Party than they did in 2018 and 2017.

Yeah, I mean, I think it shows that everyone has an exhaustion point, even like the most died in the world, even the choir runs out of like oxygen at some point. I mean, do you think the fact that this is a nightmare scenario that a lot of people said was like going to be the result of the Trump presidency? And a lot, I mean, it is a direct result of that, but like it's happening under Joe Biden and a Democratic Congress.

I mean, do you think that that factors into any of this? I mean, because like, this is a real you had one job kind of thing. And it's not so much that this happened that's so shocking, but like, I guess still even now, just how utterly just unprepared or just seemingly just not willing to do anything. I mean, like this is like the one thing that they are supposed to do.

And like, wouldn't this be the occasion for just a mass resignation of every single Democratic leader in the country following a disaster like this? You'd think I would think that the election of Trump if they had the if they had honor, but but they do not. Yeah. Well, because the thing is the reason they will never do that.

The reason I'm going to do that is because they have all decided through processes that they will tell you are rational and reasonable and not self interested that they are the only people who can do anything. They are the only people who can be in those positions to get the least bad outcome. If you had anybody else in there, the world would be over at this point.

They are the only things standing in front of Armageddon. And they really do believe that because they're the only people who can get things done and understand what is realistic. But of course, that just means that they have convinced themselves how to allow anything to happen as long as it keeps them in their position because that's the greater

good as they imagine it. But no, I'm afraid not. That's not how it works. You're literally 900 years old. You don't know where you are. Right. Right. I don't think you smell toast all the time.

Right. I don't really think there's anything that could have been done to prevent the Supreme Court ruling from happening outside of like, I don't know, Biden sending the Punisher to Six Supreme Court justices' house. I'm going to admit I'm an idiot here, but I know a lot of people are yelling at Obama because he didn't codify Roe, right?

But they didn't pass a federal law. But hasn't the Supreme Court established now that if it wants to, it will overturn federal laws? Right. Right. I mean, the only thing you could do would be to pass a constitutional amendment. Right.

Exactly. You know, yeah. Good luck. Yeah. Obongler was not going to do. Well, good luck. No, it could have done that. I mean, that's one that I would say is impossible at

that point. You can't have that. The Constitution, it's a living document until it's not, too. Like, it's completely arbitrary. This whole thing was formed out of just like a, I mean, it was a larger reaction to like the civil rights movement.

Like, that's why all this stuff came to a head. And you had this sort of like, just completely different cultural atmosphere in the 1960s. And there were like legislative advancements. And then, you know, the 70s, 80s, you had the consolidation of the religious right and their, their kind of, you know, ossification into a political unit.

We'd have been much better off with Tammy Fay, I got to say. And, you know, one of the, one of the handshake deals of them, they're like, look, we're both losing parishioners. You have to be Zionist Catholics. And, you know, you have to like be anti-abortion, you know, evangelicals.

And so it just, I mean, again, I don't really think it's that productive to call this like, you know, the direct result of Trump, because this has been a long time coming. I mean, it's been going, it's been death by a thousand cuts until we got here. Right, right, right. They've wanted to do this for the longest time.

And it is doubtful that any president short of someone who's more creative and more centralist than exists in any type of center, left of center American politics, being in office, outside of someone who would destroy the current system of government. But the thing, I mean, not shocking to us, but maybe shocking to a lot of people is the complete

lack of any plan, anything, any action by congressional Democrats, Senate Democrats, by Harris and Biden. I mean, there's not even a video of them walking over this. Yeah, and they got to see the beta test a month ago. They literally said, hey, we're going to do this.

And like I said, you know, I've gone back and forth. It's like, was this a, you know, was this a focus group attempt? Was this like to see how people would react? And they're like, actually, apparently nothing. And I think I lean on the fact that it was. It absolutely was.

The more I think about it, it's like, everybody talked in the immediate aftermath of the first leak that it's like, well, this is a draft decision and Roberts is there. Who knows what, and maybe this is part of a negotiation process. And maybe it very well might have been that the thought was, okay, this is a bombshell.

We don't, we're doing, we're winning everything. Do we want to really fuck that up by like changing the rules, by forcing the Democrats into like, okay, accepting that the rules had changed. And that means that maybe they decide at that point, you know what, fuck the court, or they like actually do make a move on judicial review, which is now like this bulwark of conservative

power now. And if that happens, they'd be fucked because what are they going to do? They're the fucking Supreme Court at the end of the day, you know, it is, they can make rulings, but they cannot enforce them and they know that. And so there is that danger, like maybe the Democrats find this to be the line in the sand.

And so they figure, let's put it out there first. If they do like, go shithouse at the prospect, then maybe that gives like Roberts the leverage to talk him down to some sort of like KC-esque compromise, but when they dropped it and the Democrats did zero, except double down on January 6th, they knew, okay. Funding requests, yeah.

Leave it as it is. Lock it in. 6-3, go for it. Alito, go ham, baby. Leroy Jenkins is the shit out of this, because nothing's going to happen. They will do nothing. And they're now, they're being proven right

every day. Well, I mean like, let's talk about like some of the things that, I mean, okay, like, now that it's happened, like the thousand cuts have paid off. And we live in this now, this new reality where abortion is, abortion and many forms of contraception are illegal in probably

half of the country, with the threat of, you know, jail and death hanging over millions of women. I mean, what is it like, I mean, I've just looking here at AOC has been the one who's probably on the Democrats, like the most vocal in terms of like demanding some kind of action in terms of, I'm just reading a

list here, restrained judicial review, expand the court, clinics on federal lands, expand the education, expand education and access to plan C, repeal Hyde, hold floor boats, boats codifying Griswold, Obergefell, Lawrence, Loving, et cetera, and vote on Escobar's bill protecting clinics. And she's demanding that they at least

attempt or try to do some of these things. And I'm just wondering what your guys are thoughts on any of these potential like political counters to this, what I think is an untenable and unacceptable situation. I'm a little confused by the clinics on federal lands, like we don't have the capacity to, like the clinics that do

exist are incredibly understaffed, like we don't, we don't have enough doctors in the first place. Right, yeah, yeah, no kind of like, hey, how about we start doing universal health care? It's like, we kind of had the opportunity to, in a crisis, switch to universal health care with COVID and we

decided not to. And if that wasn't going to do it, this isn't going to do it, like those wells are dry, drain dry, so sorry, the money is gone, it's in the private sector, it's not for public use, so good luck, that's not happening. Yeah, it just seems odd to me, I think what's going to happen is there's going

to be like sort of two fronts, unlike obviously there's going to be the political front and then the relief front and people are going to have to, hey, you got a car, you know, there's a lot of, like, you know, driving people over state lines and there's a lot of good organizations for that and, you know,

paying for things. I mean, the problem is, is that like this just literally isn't something that could exist without a medical, formal medical infrastructure ideally, like a lot of people sort of have this idea, it's like, oh, it's me so pro-stall, you can just take a pill and it's like, you know, that's like an

abortion, like it's, like, it's pretty safe as far as that stuff goes, complications are rare, but you're looking at, you know, you can have an allergic reaction to it, it might not abort fully, you can, you know, have like a blood clot or get an infection or, you know, all the things you can get

from like getting your wisdom teeth out basically, there is always a risk with stuff like that, so that means you might have to, even if you are able to whatever dark web me so pro-stall, which by the way is not appropriate for every abortion, like, you could have to go to the hospital and then you're in a

position where it's like, okay, well, what are, what are your EMTs beliefs, you know, is your emergency room physician a snitch, like, I, I think there's going to be, I mean, again, me so pro-stall does cover a lot of stuff, but it's still, it's still very dangerous in terms of like, well, on the, really,

I don't mean that the, that the, the procedure is really dangerous, I mean that, like, on the off chance, that say you just like are vomiting for 24 hours, and you have to go to, like, get an anti-emitic from, you know, the, the fucking emergency room, like, what are you, they're gonna be like, oh, why are

you throwing up, they're probably going to do a blood test, and you're gonna be like, oh, have you tried to do an abortion today, and like, you know, no one wants to end up like, pervy patelle, or by, by a shway, or, you know, well, by the way, big, who's your pride here, both of those women were prosecuted

in Indiana, Indiana has in many ways been the, the laboratory for prosecuting women, for, for either attempting abortion or trying to kill themselves, which resulted in an abortion. I don't know, man, I think, I think moving people around is, like, the immediate concern, but then in terms of the

political stuff, I don't, I don't know how realistic it is, as a short-term solution to, like, pack the courts, I mean, it's going to, like, take a while, and I don't think it's worth protesting the Republicans, because they're just not on our side, if anything, we should be, like, haranguing the Democrats.

You failed us, you know, what, what the fuck are you good for? Get your shit together, we want some militancy from you, like, we need, they're the people we're able to make uncomfortable, not the fuck, they don't give a shit. Yeah, yeah, no, that's absolutely true, like, if, if you do think that

there is anything that you, that, like, this, the government could conceivably do to change this trajectory at this point on this, like, to actually fight back on it, then you have to, I'm sorry, as much as the Democrats are absolutely fucking useless, they are just squatting on all the meaningful centers of power

that exist, like, within the system, because we're assuming that the system is perpetuating here, right, that we're not going to do a revolution. That's one thing, but if you're not doing that and you want to imagine, like, the system that we live in doing something better, then that means the Democrats

have to change, and the only way to change them, as we've now seen, is to just essentially, uh, yes, harass them into obedience, cow them, right, intimidate them. I mean, look at that, look at the Tea Party did, starting in about 2010, like, and it worked, and anyone look at that and say it wasn't one of the most

successful political movements of the less. Because those people are less servile than your average, like, Democratic party. Yeah, I mean, the question is, like, what does intimidate them really entail, like, practically, and that's a real live question. I don't know the answer to it. Well, especially

because they don't seem to care. You know, don't start imagining, like, don't start don't start with gaming out how you would, uh, do court packing. It's not going to happen. Yeah. Like, the, those theoretical questions are so down the pike of, of, you would need a completely different party to do that, and that

means you have to, we, everyone has to do a lot of things between X and Y to even consider what court packing would look like. As far as, like, immediate executive actions that could be taken, right, because that is a gigantic concern, like, a lack of medical infrastructure, a lack of personnel, the

things that Biden could do require, like, a level of confrontation that not just he, but I know Democrat that I can think of outside of maybe, maybe big JB is comfortable with. I mean, okay, if you, if you are ordering, like, the National Guard or the military at large to, like, transport women around or ordering, uh,

medical personnel from the military to perform procedures on women, you're absolutely going to get religious objections. You're going to get some fucking crybabies, and you have to be ready to throw them in prison. What's Democrats going to do that? Well, to do this, to, to, I mean, not even

to get to, you know, curtailing judicial review, which is, like, I mean, I think that's the big prize item. But, uh, just immediate administrative action. It is, like, it is a level, a level of confrontation and aggression, and just a certain baseline of fighting that I cannot picture any Democrat on the national

scale. But the thing is, it's not just because they're cowards. It's not a personal, it's not a problem, it's not like that they are just a bad and weak people. They certainly are. But in addition to that, they're operating in a context where they know in their bones that if they raise the stakes by, like,

starting to break the rules the way Republicans do and the way that, like, left liberal columnists are always yelling at them to do, to show that they're actually radical, the, the Republicans would answer with something that would destroy them in a meaningful sense because they're only, uh, and they're

allowing them to hang around because they serve a useful function. The moment they assert actual power against, like, the, the necessary prerogatives of, like, this party that is in power, they will just say, okay, fine, uh, a state, every other state doesn't get to vote and there's nothing that they will be able

to do to stop them because the thing they would need to stop them is the ability to actually mobilize people and get them to do things other than vote every four years or contribute to a fucking, uh, email solicitation and the Democrats cannot have that because that party is not led by them.

Well, this works both ways too because the Democrats can't, they can't set a precedent either for action because then they're going to have to keep doing it and the Republicans now have set a precedent. So there's not going to be, like, a toothpaste back. I mean, they've gotten a taste of banning abortion.

So, like, even if you, like, got to the point where you packed the courts, like, the states could very well revolt. We are going to have to, like, you know, fire up the tanks and roll them in and finish what Lincoln started. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But I wore it on Texas and started to say, oh, okay, never mind.

Yeah, federalism. You changed the rules. Is this all that we are running into really hard right now? Uh, to that point, though, it's like, whether it is, uh, packing the court or, like, you know, the examples you've spoken about, about, like, using the federal government to, like, directly defy state laws. Like, you know,

for instance, like, if a, if Joe Biden or a national, any national Democrat, like, went to Texas with, like, a fucking bag of morning after pills and started handing them out to people or saying, like, a really fun Santa Claus. Yeah, I'm here to facilitate any woman seeking to terminate their pregnancy. I'm,

I'm here to, like, like, you know, break Texas state law and then, essentially, dare them to arrest the president or a sitting senator or congressman. Okay, and, like, what you said, Matt, the scenario was, like, yeah, it's not hard to imagine at all what the Republicans would do to any actual

direct, uh, defiance of, of their authority, of this kind of, yeah, this, this theocratic tyranny that they've now accrued for themselves. But the thing is, it's sort of like, those nightmare scenarios, it's just, like, what are you supposed to do, because they're already doing.

Yeah, it's not acceleration, right? Yeah, they're gonna, they're gonna, we're gonna give them permission to, to do worse stuff. The rejoinders, they don't need permission, but it, when you raise, when you do something, there is a direct, considered response to your action. And that is,

in this kind of context, it's a raise. They're not going to fucking fold. They're, they have a winning hand. They have the fucking nuts. They are not folding that fucking hand. They're going to the river. Well, let me, let me ask you this, though, like, so I don't, I was talking with a

friend about this, and I don't believe the will of the people. I, I think we would all agree. The will of the people doesn't determine anything. But this is not a failure of will, because obviously the majority of Americans are to the left of the Supreme Court on abortion. But I do kind of believe in hubris. I do think it's possible that you are going

to get women who are like, I have an ectoc pregnancy. The baby will not, there's, there's no baby. I'll die. The baby will die. The baby will die. Can't live outside the uterus. Or, you know, something like, you know, I was violently raped. Do you think like, you know, women coming, I mean, because again, it would have to

reach a critical mass because like, obviously the parties don't really care what the people want. But I do believe in hubris. I do believe that they might reach a point where they're like, we're like really losing favor. Right, right. Well, I mean, that's what I kind of think they're banking on because this is,

I mean, we see the same dance with any, any social issue with any social conservatism in America for the past 56 years, right? Which is that you are, you start out with things that like a general silent majority kind of agrees with or at least passively agrees with. Something that you have a simple majority with among voters who count more or less

under the current system. But then the problem with inflammatory social conservative rhetoric is you have to keep upping the ante. You have to keep doing worse and worse things. The problem with keeping doing, with keeping doing worse and worse things is that eventually you run out,

you run out of people that no one cares about. You run out of people that no one gives a shit about. You start running into people that those voters do care about, that they know that maybe they are. This is the dance that we've- The remaining three people, you know, that you have an alienated who still vote for you are going to get pissed off.

Right. This is the dance that we've witnessed for generations. Democrats are banking on the idea that they overplay their hand and probably overplay it quicker than we're usually used to. Again, the problem with that is if they're acting like they're not afraid of electoral backlash, what does that tell you?

You know, we talked about Democrats don't want to up the ante because they're afraid that Republicans will do things that will destroy them. They will in turn up the ante. Well, they're already going to up the ante to that extent. They're already going to up the ante to the extent of like, okay, you know, these votes don't count. Like, Amber, your point about hubris

and like the possibility of something, you know, something becoming a national story that shocks and repels the conscience. I mean, I'm wondering, I'm just thinking of like the example of the referendum in Ireland, which was started by a woman who died of an ectopic pregnancy, a wanted pregnancy who was basically left to die on a hospital floor that compelled, you know,

that shocked the conscience of an otherwise culturally more conservative than we are a country. And they just decided that this is not, we cannot have this in a modern civilized country. And they, you know, they legalized abortion in Ireland, which is, you know, a country in the, you know, was thought to be in the, you know, death grip of the Catholic Church.

But the Republic of Ireland is less culturally conservative than the U.S. right now. Yeah, they got heliocentrism like three years ago. Right, right. I mean, that, that, that is the plan, though, right? That the, in Democrats perfect world, though, that's the plan, that there are enough like awful stories of women dying, that it both juices donations

and lets them win at a level that is comfortable to them. Let's them win at a level where there is not too much of an onus, but they did their job of beating the bad thing back. There's probably, they probably even have a perfect ratio developed by some former Goldman quant of how many women per how many tens of millions of donations is worth it. How much, how many deaths from ectopic pregnancies

you get per hundred millions of donations. But again, like I, you know, these are, these are the same people that wanted Trump to win the primary. How sure am I in their perfect plan that has so many moving parts? I don't know. I do think, I do think you're right

that there is such thing as hubris and this will piss people off. I just don't, I'm not sure in the mechanism to hit back at that, you know. Me neither. Again, because we, we all agree here that popular will doesn't necessarily have any effect on the legislature.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Americans, when Americans are abused, they go and kill their coworkers, you know. The problem is, is that we are conditioned like dogs to, to kick sideways or down because as miserable as we are, like the thought of like truly confronting like power is more terrifying

than like meeting our end addressing violence just intimately because there's something like we can, we can get off on the intimate violence because we just don't have a political identity capable of like making that kind of death meaningful. Like making sacrifice, punching up meaningful because we just don't believe in it enough. We only believe our own music.

I don't think that's it at all. I don't think it's a failure of belief. I don't think it's a failure of like, you know, a sense of identity. I think, I think those things are important, but those things are the results of having some sort of institution that you know, wheeled power.

Well, absolutely. No, I agree. Yeah, absolutely. And it's your, yeah. This is all a consequence of the fact that there's nowhere for anyone to act communally. There's no way to build that identity. They didn't choose to not have it. They could not attain it.

Yeah, they're right. And Matt and Amber, to your point, I mean, like it does come down to like, you know, like, look, this is now like half the country is living under a legal regime in which I would, you know, it just comes down to like how willing are you to break the law

and like how many people are going to break this law so it becomes unenforceable. But the thing is, and that becomes a question of how much are you individually willing to sacrifice to stand up to what I regard as tyranny? And, but the answer is like, you can't do that individually. Like, you know, even if it's too scary,

like the thought is too scary, and if you did it, it would be ineffective. Like all these things, they take organization and they take real leadership. And like, I guess the question is like, where's that going to come from, if at all? The exact non-material characteristics that made America, that made the last century,

the American century, that made us a world empire unlike any that had ever been seen. The non-material characteristics are an illogical insane optimism and a lack of an ability to move as a cohesive communal unit. Yeah.

Those are the exact things that make things like this such a wild card. A sprawl. Makes it make, yeah. It makes things that would be straightforward in any other equivalent country. It makes them anyone's guess. Yeah.

I mean, like this is the, you know, Matt talks about this a lot, but it's the whole frontier thing that resulted in like this unique federalist formation that we have where it's just, we're not a real country, we're 50 small countries. And like, it's the, whatever, the amorphous blob, you know, and that is just like,

maybe tomorrow will be better, but like, there's no container for it. There's no momentum. I mean, like the entire system allows for, for, you know, the freedom of movement of capital, but not the freedom of movement of people. I mean, like literally we're seeing, like people just considering like,

oh, you can't cross state lines. Like, fuck you, motherfucker. That's so, by the way, I got pulled over by a cop a while back who bitched at me for having a, not having a California license, for having a New York license. And he was like, why?

He's like, why haven't you applied for a California driver's license? And I'm like, because a New York driver's license is valid in the state of California. A New York driver's license is valid in fucking Reykjavik. I can drive in England with that thing, you dumb fuck. And they drive on a different side of the road. Like they really do.

I mean, like even the institutions, like are like, yeah, we're a little fiefdom. Like it's just, it's fucking ridiculous. I know that our, I know that our focus is mainly on Democrats. And I think we're, we're ready to do that. But that is, that is the thing that drives me. The thing that I've been seeing in the aftermath of this, it has driven me the most insane,

are the people, the sort of like, Jabba the Hup, lip filler type, like Catholic and Baptist women who've been put, and men, and men, a lot of Catholic priests who have something that's somehow even more soy than a pit crew avatar. They've invented some type of Catholic pit crew who say, say these things like, all right guys,

now we're really going to show them what pro-life means. Okay, good job. We're going to show them community. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that way. We're going to show them that kindness. We're going to show them what it means to care for mothers. Like this country could not even foster community. Bowling leagues, you dumb fuck.

Yeah. Oh my God, don't kill yourself. I was doing a little, I was doing a little fun math today comparing the child mortality rates to the extremity of, or extremeness, I guess extremity means arms. The extremeness of the restrictions on abortion laws, pretty obvious there. I mean, it's like the same, it's the, I mean,

you know, it's almost a cliche at this point to be like, yeah, you don't care about babies or mothers. Like it's like, obviously, like the most anti-abortion places or the places where mothers and babies are most likely to die. I mean, it's like, I'd love to pick up a little, yeah. The same governments that say no abortion, protect the babies, treat actual children like dog shit.

Well, and that's that. Because the underlying theological premise and the thing these people believe deeper that they could possibly understand is that poverty is sin. Well, and that's all honestly. That is what they believe, and that's not going to change because now there's no legal abortions being performed. I think in order to, I mean, whatever,

this goes into sort of Freudian or Strauss or whatever, but like, I think that there is like a kind of, as far as the popular like anti-abortion movement among just like, you know, regular rubes, I think there is a kind of ambient thing there where they're like, children are suffering. We have to save children. This is like the only way they can think of doing it

is by like, you know, forcing women to be pregnant. Those people are the least politically influential among the entire coalition. They have no say in anything. For sure, but they are great shock troops. They are great shock troops in terms of, I mean, if you've ever had to walk through a gauntlet of them to get to a Planned Parenthood,

they sure do like, you know, set a tone. Yeah, no, Felix, I'm really glad you brought up this line of commentary that I've seen from the New York Times, I've seen it from the Atlantic, and the like, you know, in the midst of this fucking nightmare, I have seen the spate of articles and commentary that I have seen assuring everyone that this is the time for the anti-abortion

and movement and the Republican Party to finally prove to the world how much they care about the welfare of like, of mothers and their children is so fucking nauseating to me. Because, yeah, you know, I would like to go with you to go place a bet on how fucking, on, okay, go actually, I don't even have to place a bet. Here is the cutting edge of what is being proposed.

This is the Rubio Plan. This is Christopher Rufo, the guy who, you know, is basically like, what, I fuck him. But he says, the Rubio Plan for Paid Maternity Leave should be a GOP priority. The idea is simple. Allow new mothers to pull forward three months of social security benefits after childbirth,

then push back the retirement age by the same period, cost neutral, delivers big value for families. This is exactly- Don't spend it all in one place. This is exactly how much they fucking care about the lives of mothers and children. A fucking loan that you have to pay back before you retire. Oh, what a shot.

$700 a month. What a shock. So, oh yeah, this is it. Now we're gonna get to see Republicans care about pregnant women and children. Turns out they're gonna do it the same way Democrats do, with means tested fake bullshit that doesn't actually help anyone.

I'm so surprised that that's what ends up coming out like of the people who actually have influence and power. It's amazing that that's where they end up and not on some sort of hair and folk fucking J.K. Chesterton wet dream integralist fantasy. Yeah. This is why we weren't terribly worried about like fucking Euro style fascism.

It's like- Yeah, it could be delivered upon. No matter what flavor of fascism we live in, or it's like rainbow flag or fucking Trump fascism, it will have Pell Grant recipients getting five years of fucking tuition redeemed with fucking shaky's pizza points. That is what you get for social policy in the future,

in the now. There's no mechanism for popular preference for anything else to make it to the top levels of policymaking. It gets filtered out by both parties. All you get is fucking- Capitalism is too powerful. You get tax credits and you get the ability

to literally work more when you're old so that you could take some time off to be with your fucking kid and form those like crucial bonds that are supposed to foster- You'll make it up later. God forbid you have more than two children. Life.

You're just going to work till you're dead. Yeah. I just want to say one more thing though on this issue of- I'm talking like this is the liberal media that is giving the most voice to this idea that like, okay, now here's the real chance for some sensible social policy

from the GOP and the anti-abortion movement that of course we take at face value their claims that they love all infants and mothers. I cannot help but notice that in all of these like sort of dream casting scenarios about all the great healthcare and benefits they're going to be supposedly providing all of these new children

that are going to be born into this country to people who otherwise wouldn't choose to bring them to term. Nowhere in any of these pay-ons to the alleged compassion of the anti-abortion movement are they mentioning the handcuffs, prison sentences, and death that this will bring down on potentially millions of women. That is not being talked about at all.

How many of the people are going to go to fucking jail? Are going to go to jail or die? Because for no reason, for doing nothing wrong. I also think these conservatives are going to find out that a lot more conservative women than they think are going to go get abortions. I mean, I think they have literally have blinders. I think they, well, not the women that I'm around.

Yes, they fucking do. Of course they do. This is why I was so fucking pissed at Planned Parenthood for going after, even before, Rami, Kobe, Bryant, and all that. They fucking were just like, Trump voters are stopping the... And like, I'm like, Planned Parenthood, shut the fuck up and give people abortions. Quit fucking lobbying for fundraising so that you can like...

Do you know how many Trump voting women need abortions? Like, for the love of God, stay on message. And I think, honest to God, both, I mean, the doctors, by the way, have to know this. This is their social media team or whatever that's doing this. The doctors have to know their base of clients or whatever, or patients, whether it be for birth control or for an abortion or whatever, they know that some of these women

are fucking Republicans. And at some point, the Republican men are going to figure out how many of those women are Republicans. See, the thing is, I think Brett Kavanaugh, at least, he anticipates this problem and he has a solution for it. In his... He did a concurrence or something. He says, one of the reasons that we can do this, we can get rid of Roe, is that, well, in states

where they really want to have abortion, it'll still be there. And I think that's going to be the answer for Republican women who need abortions is, well, you know, just take a road trip with the girls. Yeah, which is a great thing to do when you have an ectopic pregnancy. Yeah, yeah. That's one thing too. But again, if you come back, there's going to be things.

There's going to be things. You're going to have, like, you know, you're going to have a blood clot or an infection or something, and then you're going to go to the hospital back at home, and they're going to be like, hey, how come you're sick? How... Like, that's going to happen every once in a while. Especially, I mean, whatever,

pregnancy is more dangerous to the health of a woman than an abortion, but shit happens. And, like, there's going to be some... There's going to be some fucking anomalies. And I... Some of them are going to have to be with Republican women. And, you know, like... But, like, to that point, though, like... And the idea that, like, okay, like, New York and California

will always be kind of these safety valves or whatever. But, I mean, like, how confident are any of us that these people will stop here? Because, I mean, like, when we're a Republican president, like, how fucking quickly do you think it will take them to pass a national federal abortion ban in which it is now illegal in all 50 states, regardless of what the state governments think about it?

Because, look, look, to give you credit, if you think abortion is murder, you can't just be like, okay, well, it's fine if just states decide if they can murder a baby or not. Right. And... I mean, I would say most these people don't actually believe that. But the people in power, I would think,

will hesitate about a fucking second before fucking carrying this out. Because I think to them, it's not about, like, oh, is abortion murder or not. I think it is about how to enact as much cruelty and sadism on the lives of people they consider beneath them possible. Oh, totally. And provide something

that sounds like care for children to suffering, like, just, like, miserable people while not actually caring for children. It's, like, this weird bait-and-switch thing, too, where they're like, hey, look, we care about kids. We're not gonna provide fucking welfare, but we'll force pregnancy on women. I mean, that's, I think, the thinking behind it.

I really believe that. Right. And in the practical sense, for a Republican executive, the thing that you do instead of the Democratic equivalent is, like, oh, I'm not getting anything done. I'm tanking. Okay, no more jewel. I have to look busy. Everyone has taken the playbook of Democratic mayors

in the last 30 years. The Republican equivalent of that will be, you know, okay, now we're gonna make it so that you can't get, like, a second trimester abortion in New York. Again, with social issues, you always have to up the ante. And there is never going to be a stop, a natural stopping point.

It's never gonna be enough because it keeps going. Felix, what did you say about jewels, though? What did you say about jewels, though? What did you say? I said that, like, the... No, wait, what's happening to jewels? Felix, I need you to fucking tell me what's going on between... Oh, yeah, Brandon Leed on the FDA to ban jewels.

It was part of a mayor, it was part of a Michael Bloomberg initiative as part of, like, the $10 billion he spent on politics. This is the only dub that Michael Bloomberg has notched in gun control, nothing. Well, you know what, point for the left, point for the right, point for the left. Who said that we're on our backs?

But, yeah, no, that that will be, like, in future Republican presidencies, that will be the banning jewels. Except instead of, like, you know, a personal vice that's curtailed, it will be, like, okay. It's the same thing, too. Further... Instead of forced pregnancy, it's nanny state shit.

Like, they will, they both have their tactics to avoid actually providing, like, welfare in a democratic economy. One is, like, fucking forced pregnancy, and the other one is, like, you don't get a big soda. Crazy thing is, though, is that you end up getting, because there's really only a handful of actual issues they can, quote, unquote, do something about

because everything else is automated. But, remember, the first guy to promote the idea of getting rid of jewels was Trump. Remember? Well, it was a Democrat for most of his life. Because he was like... She was the power behind the throne, because she was worried about Barron and his friends

getting addicted to fruit-flavored jewels. So I could see them doing it, like, in a based way, eventually, too, because, like, eventually, you got to flip all the switches and banning jewels is one of the switches to flip. Oh, no, yeah. Well, it is, it is actually a banning personal consumptive habit that is a bipartisan thing in America,

because it is one of the only things you can do to look busy in any executive role, whether it's municipal or federal. I do think that it tilts more Democratic, usually. But, yeah, no, you are right. That Trump is the guy who got rid of mango. I'm just saying, like, once you run out of things to ban, once you... All right, overfills gone.

We got the contraception. We got gay sex, even. What are you going to... Eventually, you can't stop banning things, because, as he said, it's all they got. So jewels are going to be a thing you can ban, and that's going to happen right before I throw it bisham. Yeah, by the way.

And then, like, the earth's getting swallowed by a fucking supernova. By the way, I mean, like, just with the news about from the weekend, I mean, many people have reached out to me, and I just want to let you know, like, I am obviously terrified by the ban on jewels, but, you know, I'm standing strong. Even though, like, my life is under threat right now,

I will get through this. I will try to get through it. But, like, your support means a lot to me. And, like, there are many jewel advocacy groups you can consider donating your time and money to. Hang in there, sister. I have to say, I am kind of happy about this. I don't, I mean, I jewel a little, I don't own a jewel.

I'll kind of share one sometimes, once in a while, just like a little bubble cigarette or something. You're jeweling you. You're bow guarding the jewel. But I'm a mooch, exactly. I don't sit around and do it like some of my compatriots do. But I am still in favor of this, because it means we are going to get back to the steampunk ass vape rigs, being the way that people fucking vape.

You could kill a man with those things. Stuff people make in their own homes out of, like, their apartment radiators. That's how we're going to re-industrialize America. Like a giant fucking, like, a, like a Mirsham pipe vape with, like, a, like, the fucking Pequod part. Looks like a phonograph. It looks like a phonograph.

I want that. Like a 3D printed, like, Elkin horn or something. Yes, Crimson. Yeah. The whole thing. Yes. You know, those, like, like, just horribly cynical, like, engagement, farming posts that people do, where it's just like, Roe v. Wade has not even been overturned

for 10 minutes, but they're like, this isn't a women's issue, by the way. This is a poverty issue. This is a transition. This is a fucking, they list every fucking point of it in a section, or the, or, or, right. Or the guy, the guy I saw who was like, wealthy white women are going to keep getting abortions.

Yep. This is solidarity. How about the opposite of that in every election? Yeah. Yeah. No, by the way, if anyone is fucking doing that, should tell them to shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck up.

This isn't the time to be like, shut the fuck up. It's all hands on deck, motherfucker. Who gives a shit? Yeah. There's three minutes of social solidarity in America, and that's three too many. Yeah.

You instantly, instantly have to go to that. But I do want to see that with vaping. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is people who live close to the Canadian border could just go to Montreal and get the band mangoes. This is going to hit people who say it's the hardest.

Check your privilege. Well, it's hitting me the hardest, honestly. I mean, I don't mean to categorize my grief and suffering, but it is a great deal higher than everyone else is in this country right now. Are you stockpiling? Fuck no. I'm fucking biting my fingernails down to the fucking click.

Oh, you're trying to wean off. Wow. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm shocked. You can get it. It's very easy to get a non-jewel. Yeah, I know.

I'm just, I'm getting another ring. I'll be fine. I'll be fine. I'll be fine. Didn't they say though, like, wait, don't cry for will. He's already dead. I'm also going to do something for cigarettes, like remove.

From cigarettes. Yeah. You guys have seen the fifth element, right? Yeah. There's a scene where Oh, it's all I saw last night. Yeah. He's got like, he's trying to quit smoking.

So he has cigarettes and like the filter keeps getting longer to wean them off. They're literally doing that as government policy. Right. And it will just make people smoke more cigarettes. Yes, of course. Oh, good. Good.

More packs. More economic activity. Stimulated. Well done. Yeah. I want to bring up, I want to bring up another, this is like, you know, this is like, again, another like, a weird thing that's, that's upset and disturbed me.

I mean, like along the lines of Felix, you brought up the wonderful compassion now being offered by the supposedly generous social safety net that the pro-life movement is going to provide America. But I'm wondering if you guys have seen this rather glaring and disturbing trend that I've seen a lot of examples of over the past week. And I'm referring to basically these like vacant doll-eyed

couples standing around in front of the Supreme Court with big signs that say, give us the baby. Yes. Give us the baby. I've seen, I've seen- I've seen fucking neighbors. Sir Roseberry's baby. Like, oh my God.

I've seen five or six of the couple that Vera Formiga kills in Running Spare. Yeah. Yeah. Holy shit. It's a very to serve man kind of. Yeah. Yeah.

Give us the baby. Give us the babies. And I bring this up because, I mean, like not just for like the obvious ghoulishness of, like, I mean, look, sometimes God don't miss when he takes out your sperm. You know what I mean? Like, there's a reason for this.

But like, I'm thinking of it in the context of the quote, domestic supply of infants. And I'm thinking of like, you know, where is this all going? And I'm, you know, I mean, obviously, like a lot of this anti-abortion stuff is very infused by the Catholic right. And I think we're looking at a situation

that's not dissimilar to like Franco's Spain in which that domestic supply of infant is taken from, you know, families or couples or women that are considered unworthy and just sort of given to religious organizations or families just like just straight up stolen from them. Like Magdalene one. Yeah.

I mean, there's a. Oh, yeah, yeah. There's a degree of, I mean, crisis pregnancy centers are really complicated. They're all bad and they're all coercive. But some of them, in this, here's the situation, you actually can't underestimate women. I know lots of women who have nothing against abortion

but didn't want to wait like two weeks to go to Planned Parenthood because the waiting or they didn't live near one. And they're like, yeah, I'll go to a crisis pregnancy center for an ultrasound. Yeah, I'll listen to your music. Well, you know, it's, you know, and then they're like, okay, well, I'm now I'm going to get a real doctor.

Like, you know, it's free. And then there are like ones where women are like, I don't want to have an abortion. I do want to give my child up for adoption. I don't have the resources, you know, and whatever. I'd rather live in a halfway home than on the streets and, you know, see that I get healthcare and things like that.

You know, again, it's all extremely coercive and disgusting, but they are like services that women use from, you know, for all of this stuff. And adoption is like, barely regularly. I mean, like there's it's it's fucking all over the place. I mean, like there's there's quite a bit of, you know, letter of the law adoption that really dips a toe into human trafficking.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, I think I think the crisis pregnancy centers are going to be very interesting. Like like how because they those are going to be like the emergency care for a lot of women, at least for the, you know, the first ultrasound or whatever to make sure they don't have something like topic or,

you know, like just or it's just a fucking tumor or something. Yeah, I mean, I feel like Spain in general is a very good, good analogy. I mean, I, I hate, I fucking hate Nazi Germany analogies for so many reasons, primarily among them. Like, you know, the essay was millions of hard in World War One veterans. Yeah.

And we have people who brag. We have people who brag about how depressed they are. It's cool to just be a whimpering baby now. But the Franco-Spain is probably the best analogy in the event that we, you know, get years of Republican rule after this, which is possible. Because the thing that makes Franco-Spain remarkable to me is not the enthusiasm of the populace

for social conservatism or the church. But yeah, we're pretty listless populace. Yeah. And just exactly like it was in Franco-Spain, a completely listless, unwilling, bored populace. I mean, one of their initiatives, which I could see repeated by the attempted national conservatives, was to involve young people in the middle classes

in churches to bolster Franco's support among the young. And all it did somehow, the national character of Spanish ambivalence was too great. And it somehow made the church more secular instead. I could see, I could see a repeat of that. I think that is probably the best analogy to a worst-case-future America. Yeah. I mean, I do think, again,

crisis pregnancy centers all over the... Even quite a few of them actually sort of admit or say, who knows how correct these numbers are. But it's not fucking the Manson cult. They're like, yeah, like a third of the women who come to us get abortions anyway. Yeah. You know, it's not Scientology. Women aren't fucking programmable robots.

There is a coercion element there, especially for people who are on the fence. But a lot of that shit is just like, again, dipping a toe in traffic. Give us the baby. Give us the babies. My friend from Alabama told me about one of those places that she went to when she's pregnant.

She's been a mom for a few years now, but she told me about how even if you're not like, oh, I don't know if I want to terminate the baby or not, you're going to have it, that it's these awful women with those braily, caily, habley names who just harangue over if there's dust on your floor. Yeah. It's not really a great advertisement for the joys of motherhood.

I mean, and it too, some of them are oriented more towards you should have the baby. And some of them are oriented more towards give us the baby. And I have to say for women, especially like they're homeless or like, you know, living in horrible situations and they're like, I don't know, I want to have a baby and give a healthy baby to someone. Again, it's a rational decision

and a lot of them go into it like, eyes open. They're like, yeah, these people are fucking cranks. You know, they're psychos, but they're going to facilitate, you know, an open adoption for me. I'll get to see how the kid is doing. I'll make sure I like the whatever couple will pay for my medical care. You know, these things are,

women are just making the choices that they have available to them. Like, and I am disgusted that it's crisis pregnancy centers that are this thing, but they might take on a bigger middleman kind of, you know, baby traffic and roll than they already do. Well, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's that seems like to be a secondary function of all this to knock down the price of the white baby, the big status symbol in America.

I mean, it will probably the white baby will probably replace Bitcoin as a value store. I mean, honestly, that might be three years for get a healthy white baby. You're going to go to the yoga class. You're going to go to the park for like holistic animals or whatever the fuck. And you're going to be coming in with with some off brand shit,

something, some non-white baby. It's like you are showing that you can't, you don't have to hustle. You don't have those fucking stacks to make that happen. You went to the bargain bin. You got it from China, just like you're like, just like you're knockoff Nikes and your fake iPhone or whatever. I mean, that's that's what I think.

Whenever I see that those horrifying couples in front of the Supreme Court, they are just there. They're the equivalent of the people that camp outside the Apple store. But for white babies. Yeah, it'll be like the new, yeah, it'll be the new way to like buy Percocet online.

It is crazy. And it's really, I mean, if you have fertility problems or you know, you're trying to go it alone or whatever, it is like insane how difficult it can be to get a baby. But if you go to like a mega church that like has a fresh baby supply from a crisis pregnancy center, you're just collecting them like fucking Pokemon,

just a menagerie. Just it's a small world after all of fucking babies. Yeah. Well, again, one of the one of the group, it will be one of those grim growing industries in America. One of the few places where we're expanding employment. Yeah. And it's borderline impossible to adopt ethically

because there's the people, these people are hoarding babies. They are hoarding the babies. I mean, along those lines, I guess I just want to like maybe wrap things up with just like, I don't know, like this reality that we now all find ourselves in, that we now all find ourselves shackled and imprisoned in this fucking, this new regime of, you know, like I said, like they more or less uncontested theocratic authority

having total control over most of our lives. How do you like, how do you guys imagine the criminalization of abortion looking in the 21st century in the coming decades as opposed to previous eras in American history where abortion was illegal? Oh, do we have to end on that? Okay, I mean, I don't know. I mean, like one, I think it's going to be very difficult to predict.

Like I literally, it's going to be super like I have, I will say that like this is, this is a new thing. This is not, I think you're right. This is going to be different than what it was like before, both in terms of the fact that there's going to be a different economy for abortions, like, you know, it's going to be fucking, you know, it's going to be weird having like women purchase from women off the waves and having to move it through Canada

or whatever and probably more underground, you know, if you need a DNC or whatever. Like it's definitely going to be different, but I have no idea what the punitive actions are. And this is, this is like, I don't think anybody knows what's, what's going to happen. The only thing I can say is like, you know, hey, if you got a car and you got a few extra bucks,

you know, send it to one of these direct, I mean, I'll never donate to Planned Parenthood again, they're fucking evil, but, you know, go with God. But for direct service provision, like there's a lot of organizations for that. I would, I would say I offer one grim prediction. And I think that this, in the 21st century, we will see more actual prosecution of women,

which is, you know, already happened and already happening, but I think we'll see it in an elevated, elevated volume. I think so. And I think, like I said, about Babushwa and Purvi Patel, both in Indiana, I think they've been doing much like the, you know, the beta testing of overturning Robi Wade. I think they've been, I think they're pretty good at testing the waters, like the far right.

Like they've been figuring out what they, they've been boiling our frog ass very slowly for a while now. And I think it's at the slow escalation and the slow day, like what also what you say, Felix, about just the state of American life, it's just getting slowly and gradually, worse and worse every year, just gradually enough so that like, you know, it's boiling the frog.

But I think they've, they're gonna ease us into throwing like more women in jail. Yeah. And I think, I think that the thing they're banking on there is, you know, you get enough people who don't give a shit. And then even more grimly, you have like a new, a new base of voters who are actively like enthused by that in a way that like would, would be inconceivable previously.

I don't think, I don't think it's like a massive number, but I think it exists. I don't know, man. I actually, this is where I, maybe I'm a little sunny about, you know, whatever, like, this is like where we are right now. I hope that we're not that bad, but like, you know, if I talked to, you know, my family about Bae Bae Shui, which I've never done, this is a case by the way,

of a woman who tried to kill herself and they prosecuted her for fetus side. Like that they, I've never had to ask them. I know in like, even they're sort of like, you know, you know, if they only knew about adoption, I know that they would be horrified by throwing that woman in jail. And they're like, evangelicals.

They think the world is going to end and that that's a good thing. I mean, I don't know. Maybe they're except wrong. The question is, the thing is, I don't think the question is, you know, whether or not there's going to be, you know, a, a, a general like sigh of horror as this stuff happens. So that like a, the, the majority even of Americans are going to not be happy with what's going to happen.

I do think that's going to be the case. I have to. But the question is, what will that manifest as? If it's just people independently being like, that's a shame. And then directing their angst about it outward and down, then it won't really matter because there will be no organized structure of, of like people acting in concert against the drift of things to change the direction,

to change trajectory. And here's the issue I have even with the, the hubris theory, you know, and if the eight, let's say the Republicans are flying too close to the sun here, let's say they, you know, this results in a bunch of cases where even like, you know, Americans that are very conflicted or, you know, would say they don't support abortion, but know that their exceptions would be disgusted by it.

Let's say that happens. Do you think like the Democrats are going to fill that void? Like it's not like they're in a position to take the reins. Right, right, right. I, okay. Then here is what I will say to like kind of book in that thought. I, my personal opinion, my personal grim prediction is that we are going to see, yeah, more prosecutions of actual women

having miscarriages, seeking abortions, et cetera. Because I do think that that excites a small but significantly active, younger part of the base, but I do think, of course, that comes with pushback. I do agree with you, Amber, that that horrifies most people. But to go off what Matt says, I think that if that, if that horror results in, yeah, money for Planned Parenthood, money for, you know, the D triple C, whatever, this just

becomes another part of the endless dance in American life. If that results in, and I'm not saying this to like be edgy or anything like that, but I really do mean this. If this results in like reasons for some of these people to live in mortal terror, then I will be confident that we are actually seeing a change. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's, I, I like, I literally think not.

It'll be, things are going to change like week by week. Like I think this is going to develop. This is going to shape up very quickly and we're going to get the sense of things very quickly. But right now it's fucking chaos. Like I don't even, yeah. And I think part of the, I think a lot of the, the hopelessness that people feel when they try to engage

with, you know, social media and, and, and regular media on like the question of like what's going to happen next comes from the fact that the only questions that can really be asked at that level that we can all participate in are ones that can't really be answered. They're all just these neurotic, you know, rosaries that we go through about like, well, what should we do? Like hypothetically, as if we have the power to do anything,

as if our opinion on like whether they should stack the court matters, as if that could possibly matter. So you're going to argue about, you could only really participate like as a, as a, as a observer or even a participant in arguments about abstract things that you can't answer because there's nobody there who can stack the court at every level that doesn't exist. So you have to ask yourself, well, what am I going to do?

You know, what, what, what am I going to contribute to at like the, at the level of like life? And the fact is, if you're going to confront this thing, if we're going to confront this thing at some point, we're going to get, we're going to be able to like actually challenge and they are going to raise. As we said, they're never going to fold. They're going to raise.

And that means conditions are going to change. Things are going to get more dangerous. Things are going to get more, less, much less abstract. And then you're going to have to do something. And the question you have to ask yourself is, do you have the horses for it? Yes, as, as, as Tom Wilkinson said to Michael Clayton, you want to do that?

You think that's good? Good. Okay. Let's not argue about whether you should do it now. Let's just assume we're going to do it because you want to do it. I'm not going to argue that you know your life better than, that I know your life better than you.

I'll take it. Do what you want to do. But do you fucking have the horses for it? So ask that question. But the problem is that can't be asked by us or anybody in social media because it's a particular question. Yeah. And there's only a universal and generalized discourse.

It's an accounting of like, what do we have in our arsenal? Who do we have? I mean, you know, and those are, those are questions that are dry, boring and can't be answered in the discourse zone. Yeah. Well, and I think that the other thing is beyond like the, you know, what can I do on an individual level? Like we have to start thinking about like,

what wheeze do we actually have? Like an individual accounting of what you can do personally will keep you from losing your mind. It'll give you some sort of sense of like doing something for day to day, but like who are the, in terms of accounting, who are the wheeze and what do we have? Like what are our horses? What's in our arsenal?

Who's like, what's in our armory? Like who, who's with us? And like it's just, yeah, it's a boring accounting of things. And only then can we actually have a sense of what we're going to do. Yes. Yeah. I think that is, that is a function though, that, that, the fear of that question, that's a sort of why you see so many things that are like,

you know, ranking the hierarchy of who should be mostly upset by this. Yes. Yeah. Right. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. I raised the skip a question. Okay. Yes. Yes, yes. Yes, yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. No. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes. It is it's it's like when a a cat like Pat's a blanket because they feel like they're They're they're priming a fucking they're they're priming a teat for milk They no longer do and yeah, I've never done it's a floating stick Here's the thing I've noticed it used to be called like the oppression Olympics where it would be like, you know a few aspiring Twitter stars would be like actually it's worse for me actually it's worse for me now It's like people who aren't of that group Which means it's no longer like the oppression Olympics are like well, why aren't you thinking about you know?

Black disabled trans queer women or whatever like they're the most it's no longer the oppression Olympics because people are actually Observers like it's not just oh, it's worse for me. It's like it's worse for that person over there of which I am now It's now it's no longer Olympics. It's ghoulish. It's them looking for their most The biggest or the most extreme suffering they can and feasting on it. It's the only thing that It's fucking it's oppression fantasy football. Yes. Yes. It's disgusting Yeah, it's it's just like okay who you got you got the South Asians in the number three spot I don't know there. They're they're per capita income in the US is a little high it undercuts their sympathy points Yeah, well, you're not picking a mid a mid-second round pick. I got to tell you

Yeah, do you use there like the Cleveland Browns? No, this year is what it's gonna be really bad for us. I swear to God But like doubly frustrating is that there are plenty of people who see this stuff for what it is and say I'm not participating in this horse hockey This is not getting us anywhere and then they decide what they're gonna do instead is really get invested in Strategic questions about what the Democratic Party should be doing what Jack Schubert or Joe Biden should be doing Questions that are is irrelevant. Yes Who is most oppressed by this or whatever or who's like the best? Goodest boy in the progressive stack that is a question that is meaningless because the Democratic Party cannot do these things It will not do these things in my mind. What are the most like?

carcinogenic trends and like the the left media discourse that we're all embedded in is people who use their real estate To say things like the Democrats need to pack the Senate The Democrats need to pack the court the Democrats need to arrest Donald Trump the Democrats need to enforce the Voting Rights Act by fiat. It's all Shouldisms like do that. Yeah, but even if even if they could like who are you? Who are you exactly like you have no leverage in this situation? Well, if it's and butts were candy and nuts suck my dick it's completely stupid. Yeah, by the way data Matt I have one disagreement. No one has ever said horse hockey

I just did the thing that's most astounding over, you know, what the Democratic Party should do type writing is That if you're operating under the assumption that they have made all these choices out of sheer incompetence Then it would be impossible for them to do anything It would be impossible for them to get out of bed in the morning without hitting their head on their fucking bed post and dying No one would be that stupid But you know what even more insidious about this is that so even though there are plenty of people who see that for what it is I'd like they can't do that They then invest themselves in letting everyone know I they can't do that or they shouldn't do that

Instead they should do this other thing that they can't and won't do Yeah, and then you get to go spinning around that pinwheel instead of addressing the question of what do we have the horses for? Yeah, because that question as I said is not adjudicated publicly. You know what you want to do You know what the best strategy is go for it. You can't determine it socially We we broke up the structures that allowed for those court of communal decision-making We how to shallower into the void all we hear is an echo is the cacophony of everybody else's self-interest So just go for what you think is right trust your gut, but then ask yourself Do I have the ability to do this and then that means you have to start talking to other people about doing it actually talking about them

About practical questions that have answers find your way like hey, should we do this or this? Let's try one and then you actually try it and something happens Because they could never be enacted as an addendum To that I think they're very very well stated Matt I mean like as far as like the only the practical considerations You know like the only thing I have to add to this conversation right now is that if you're you know uh Evaluating your horses and your conscience demands that you break any of these unjust laws

The only thing I can say is do not talk about it on social media All right, don't fucking talk about it on signal don't talk about any of these encrypted apps Talk about it in person to people you trust form a plan and fucking go from there You're not trust any how do you do fellow abortion activists? Would you like to do some crimes at a crisis pregnancy center the primary fucking like? People who inhabit are pregnant women Yeah, I'm just saying a little bit sus to write yeah if abortion isn't safe You aren't safe to release statements that like it's open

Season that really sounds like something abortion activists say to say like oh the the insurance providers Will know that you're no longer viable when I think abortion activists are pretty aware that like emergency pregnancy centers function not off of fucking insurance funds but off of like weird Christian groups Maybe if someone's saying, you know, hello fellow abortion activists that you've never heard of stay away from that person I do think we are going to see a golden age of new undercover cop outfits Oh, yeah We'll go to these places and we'll be the how do you know abortion activists guys and Amber talked about you will see guy

You will see guys in physiques. You have never seen before wearing Latika t-shirts It is gonna be a brand new day when he shows up with a Doc Martins in a pussy hat There's another advantage to in person organizing and decision-making beyond obsec it's that You can actually come to actionable conclusions when you're in a room talking to people and have a like a baseline trust built on that and not living in the Hamster wheel where we're all thinking that we're trying to do politics, but we're actually advancing ourselves and like this social rat race For any kind of recognition without even knowing that's what we're doing if you're sitting in a room It's because you want to be there not like when you're online, which is when you basically want to entertain yourself. Yeah Yeah, you shouldn't get your politics the same place you get your pornography. I've said it many times

Indeed it's no good. That's why we're here to provide value add Yeah, the form of hilarious shapes and gestures and an end pornography coming soon. Yes I'm just so happy. I got to be back on for a for a fun episode. I really feel really good Yeah, all things considered it was pretty fun. Yeah There you go, I also said a hoot We've said we've said horse hockey a hoot Scrimshaw, yeah, Japs Well, look, we're going back to we're going back to like the 19th century like the early like like we might as well

Just start bringing back the language. Do something fun about it. Oh, yeah And actually here one one more one more practical piece of advice. This one's for the fellas out there Retain that semen. Absolutely. Yeah, or or or give me the semen Okay, let's see leave it there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good luck everybody. Yeah, see out there somewhere. Yeah Oh