Chapo Trap House - 678 - For Whom The Balls Tan feat. Julian Feeld & Annie Kelly (11/8/22)

Episode Date: November 8, 2022

We’re joined by QAnon Anonymous’ Julian Feeld & Annie Kelly to discuss their new miniseries MANCLAN, covering online masculinity influencers. Julian and Annie’s series pulls together a lot of threads we’ve been discussing lately including loneliness, the rightwing grip on “manliness”, bizarre male diet trends, the new age-ification of online reactionaries and much more. You can subscribe to Qanon Anonymous to get Manclan and all their premium content here: https://www.patreon.com/qanonanonymous

Surrounded by the wealth and the comfort they have won, they lose their life force. And the civilization they've created begins to decline. Author C.S. Lewis warned of a West that one day would be filled with what he called men without chests. And we see that prophecy coming true today. We call them, less poetically, man boobs. They're a physical manifestation of something bigger, the decline of manhood, a virility of physical health, all of which together threaten to doom our civilization.

Greetings friends. It is Monday, November 7th. It's Chapo Traffas coming at you. Today we have two guests with us, and we are going to investigate today the manosphere, the world of masculinity influencers. What should I do about my diet, sex and dating tips? And do Jews control too much of the media? These are the most important questions that we are going to confront today with our good

friends, Julian and Annie from QAnon Anonymous. We're going to talk about their new series, Man Clan. They will be the iron that sharpens our iron today on Chapo Traffas. Julian and Annie, welcome to the show. What's up fellas? Thanks so much for having us. Just here to sharpen your rapiers. That's why I moved to Romania.

Those accusations. Julian and Annie, let me start you over this. Just an observation on my part, and I'm wondering if you could either confirm or if your observations along these lines hold true. Have you noticed that bad times create hard men? Hard men in change create good times. But then, and here's the rub, those good times created by hard men create soft men. Thus the soft men recreate the hard times and the cycle begins anew.

So where are we at today? Are we soft? Hard? What's going on here? And how can we get back to being good and hard again? Yeah, Annie can take this, obviously she's kind of the alpha on our podcast, even though obviously my tea is pretty high too, but she's been beating me, you know, every episode a little more, a little better.

Yeah, it is obviously one of the cruel ironies of history that the only reason a civilization would ever collapse is because it has too many soft men. I always knew it. I always looked around myself and I looked at my pudgy fellow men and in the mirror and I was like, this is it. This is why we're going down. The best part about that quote, by the way, which is like passed around a lot, is you'd think it was like some classical piece of literature or whatever, but it's actually, it's from

this like set of like seven really awful fiction novels by this guy who just like made up this like alpha kind of protagonist and it comes up when they're debating whether they should execute a like lefty that they've captured and basically Ted Cruz is president in the fictional world and they're like, should we kill this guy? And everyone's like, well, maybe we should just imprison him. And then the alpha guy is like, no, he will make bad times through his softness. We need to kill him now. So executing Marxists is at the basis of that sweet ass fucking idiom.

If you want to create a soft society, start putting people in jail. I mean, it just like doesn't seem right because like the British took over the like pretty much the entire world and the thing you would do back then is like write a letter to your friend that's like, I miss the warmth of your bosom, the timber of your breath on my neck. And that was just your friend and you, your wife, you shook her hand once every 35 years. They were pretty fruity with their shit. It's true. It was like the Cecil Rhodes era.

But then when they were like, we have to act hard, you know, around World War II, stiff upper lip. That's when they lost everything. It all fell apart. Well, the thing about it is like these guys, they're all fixated on getting the right vitamins and shit, right? Having the perfect stacks. Yeah.

These guys are missing out crucially on vitamin D. That stands for dialectical materialism. This is trying to explain the past. If you cannot even see material conditions as a factor in human events, like you live in a world where that's just, it's invisible to you, like that's the ideological screen that you live with. And that's the one that America creates really. So it makes sense that they start with that. And if you look at history, there's no way you can see material because that's a constraint

on the individual and the idea that the individual's constraint is ideologically verboten for them. So it's got to be, oh, the people got soft, not the contradictions embedded in the class rule that undergirded society over time with, you know, material conditions changing and being depleted creates internal crises that can't be resolved, no matter how fruity the people in charge are with their shit. No, I think that's really true. I mean, I guess one thing that I found in the Tucker Carlson documentary, especially, but I think this is a really common theme in lots of the masculinity influences that

we study is this tightrope that they seem to walk between telling their audience, you know, that life is terrible, it's alienating and horrible, and it's not your fault. But also, critically, I think, telling them there's absolutely nothing they can do to change that. Do you know? It's so, the only kind of advice that they give them is so internal, literally internal a lot of the time, it's, you know, focusing on your diet and what vitamins you're intakeing and drinking raw eggs and stuff like that, you know, there's, it's so anti-solidarity

in that sense. So even if it is kind of acknowledging the problems, even in a kind of oblique sort of way, this ideology finds it necessary to obscure the fact that there could be any kind of collective solution. But I mean, isn't that really just a recognition of reality? Like, isn't that the problem we're faced with here? Is that like this whole movement is based on a fundamental acknowledgement of a reality that we are in a post-political world?

That like the short, like forgetting long-term trends, the likelihood that politics will make our lives better, our lives better, is largely gone at the base of American experience. It still exists in the, in the more costed, you know, upper Elm echelons, which is what makes culture. But like at the grassroots, there's a recognition that politics is over. And whatever this is, it is at least a thing you can do for yourself that will make your life better. And in, what is the alternative to that?

There is not. Right. The thing, the thing that I like got from this is not that they're like, you know, forming a fry core through like this Tucker Carlson original or signature series, whatever they call it. It's more that it's like sort of like a slapdash lifestyle brand, which I guess is like kind of the only thing you can do if politics is out. If we're not only in a post-politics world, but like kind of like a post-friendship world,

post anything world, post like actual, like relating to people through community and affinity. And just like, I have to know this guy so we can grapple together in the gym and like to find, to find new grass-fed meats to eat. It's the, the only thing is to like, yeah, make goop for men, which is kind of what this is. Yeah. It is goop for men. And you have to like, you basically use your testicles as like the stress balls for the

alienation. And you're like, damn, they are big and juicy. And you just kind of reach down and go, that's okay. I'm fine. You know, I'm re-centering myself on my nuts. I'm breathing into my balls. Yeah. But I mean, I think what I find so funny about it is it's almost an inversion of, I suppose,

the kind of superficially feminist advertising that was so common for beauty products, you know, five to 10 years ago, which, you know, was kind of like stick it to the patriarchy and kind of buy this fancy soap or this fancy shampoo, do you know? Because it's using the language of revolution, you know, they're all kind of saying stuff like, you know, the regime doesn't want you to know this iron sharpens iron, all it takes is a few strong men to take down the government. But then the only routine that they're offering is kind of a self-care one, do you know? Right.

Exactly. Because that's the difference between the moment we live in now and the moment that produced fascism is that the kind of guys we're talking about in this movie are the kind of guys who in the 1920s and 30s in Germany would have joined the SA. They would have been in the streets. They would have been in a uniform. Yeah. They would have had a fucking crunching and they would have gone to rallies and strikes

and meetings with fellow SA members and they would have cracked people's fucking heads open. Those exact guys in the current moment, their answer to the political crisis of the time is, how can I save my ass? And the answer is, what can I sell to somebody a little dumber, a little more desperate than I am to keep me a fucking float, keep my head above water? That's what they're doing. And only the bigger losers, the more disorganized dipshits who couldn't have gotten into the

fucking SA are actually out there street fighting. To Matt's point, I'm wondering if Julian and Andy's reaction to this. So I watched the Tucker Carlson testicle tanning video and I listened to the first three episodes of Men Clan. And I opened up to today's show with the old cliche about the good men, the hard men, good times, contradiction and how you can't have one without leading time, blah, blah, blah. But then what I noticed is, to Matt's point about how this isn't really about politics, it's about only about what you can do to make your life better.

It's true, but where I would depart after listening to the show is the idea that it does make your life better. So I would like your guys' thoughts on this. What I noticed is, the bad times create hard men dynamic. Applies to the manosphere as they go through a similar metamorphosis from bad times, aka not getting pussy, to good times, getting pussy, to bad times, back again, where you have to get hard again, aka Christian nationalism, to getting soft again, which is pitching multi-level marketing schemes.

And the thing is, though, what I realized is that the more obsessed with masculinity you get through the internet, the more stereotypically feminine in a misogynist context you behave. And I'm talking about, as a man, having insane eating disorders, being hysterical, a fear of the outside world, a need for religion, and a sort of all-consuming concern for the children. Basically, all these guys become Victorian dowagers because they need tops so badly. Well, yeah, I mean, it's a bunch of 19-year-old men who have baby fever. Yeah, their nut is going bad.

Their biological clock is ticking. They're almost 20. Right. But I am sort of sympathetic to that, to like that, to like, whether it's like, okay, burn counts are dropping, or less and less people are having, fewer and fewer people are having sex, or generally, if you want to decouple it from reproduction or sexuality, just generally, people are lonelier. That is undeniable.

But it is so comprehensively anti-material, whether it's like, okay, what awful deregulatory scheme happened where like, I don't know, we're ingesting the little beads from four in one conditioner, shaving cream, shampoo, body wash, that's just annihilating our sperm count, or food shittier, or anything like that. It's so decoupled from that that it just, it's all like everything else, like equivalent, like mass consumer branded, sort of left-wing versions of this are, it's all a consumer choice. Yeah.

You know, red oils. Right. Grass-fed meats. They're basically the same thing that fucking rich liberals do. The exacts, I mean, people pointed out, Alex Jones and Gwyneth Peltrow sell the same stuff in different wrappers, because those are the two answers to the two genders, the two mainstream culturally reproduced genders on how to cope with the moment. And it's get by better so that you can be a better person.

It is worrying that basically the liberals are not really capable of saying like, yeah, no, shit is fucking rotten, because what's what's what's happening is that the right is getting to the, who are we going to blame stage much faster? Oh, yeah. They're actually kind of controlling the narrative, you know, it's, it's, they're like, no, no, it's soy globalism, whereas, yeah, like, whereas the, the, the, the kind of liberal left is not really even able to like pinpoint the fact that globalization and this kind of like flattening of all cultures and the connection between us and stuff has created the conditions

that we're in. That's why I watched the Tucker documentary and it was, I was so just sad watching it because like a third to a half of that shit is just true. Yeah. Like it is just, there's unarguably the case, like the, the, the, the trajectory they trace of like the, the, the food supply and our environment just getting annihilated. Just coincidentally at the moment that the neoliberal, uh, you know, uh, revolution and governance is, is completed and it looked like a third of it honestly looked like an

Alex Gibney documentary from 2006, like something you'd go to see, you know, between the fucking and Fahrenheit 911 and Enron, uh, but it's coupled with it. It's couched in all this gibberish that was depressing to me as the knowledge that the gibberish is there, but that that's the only politically coherent response there is to this reality. No other political factor, no other, uh, media trend can address the problem. It has to tell you, you're crazy for thinking it is a problem. And actually, you know, uh, people do, some people have to eat soy.

Some people like are required by their neural atypicality to do all of these horrible things and to have corn syrup, uh, for four meals a day and to never move their physical bodies. These are actually good things and you're a racist homophobe for saying they aren't. That's the only response there is culturally to the recognition of these real problems. Yeah. I mean, I'm not sure if that's true. I would push back against that. I mean, you know, there was a movie quite recently, I think with Mark Ruffalo, which

was like talking about PFA's and I think it was like the, the non-stick guns that were poisoning the poisoning, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, like, I think there is like a, a kind of a cultural kind of like recognition of this, but it's, it's so. But there's no narrative around it is the thing. Like there's no narrative.

Yeah, there is no narrative. It's that. It's kind of like. Yeah. I mean, I guess it is, it is what Julian is saying, I guess it's kind of jumping in feet first and being like, and we know who's to blame. It's soy globalism, whatever that is. You've got to have a villain for a half a story and there's no villain and we can agree

on a villain. The secret here too is that the neocon footprint of like how we got here and just the broader like reality that the liberal regime is kind of what could be considered conservative politics anywhere except the United States. That's the deregulation, all of this stuff. It's like basically like 70% conservatives fault and then like 30% liberals fault. And we can't, we can't see those both together, right? So like Tucker's job is just to kind of like scramble the tracks and be like, no, no, no,

we were always a nationalists that were about, you know, like strengthening our nation instead of like, no, we like sold everything out from under your feet. We sold out the agriculture, we sold out, we deregulated the companies, we let them poison you because it was just going to give us a little bit better of a kind of margin and like the empire was not really giving enough fruit to continue the growth or whatever. So yeah, it's a good sleight of hand, but it is obviously also a fucking lie and like both the parties have done the dance that has gotten us here, you know what I mean? And it's just the fact is both those parties are, in my opinion, right wing parties, you

know, they both have, at least they're both capitalist parties and they're both responsible for the deregulation and slowly handing the reins of everything over to people who could not give a shit if your food was poisoned or if it was trash. I mean like Tucker literally, you know, his dad married into a fucking frozen dinner at dynasty. They invented, they invented the TV dinner, they invented it. Like you're telling me that 1955 there wouldn't be a return guy looking at that shit? Yeah, the Swanson family has probably taken out more sperm than nuclear bombs.

This is Tucker's way of giving back, giving back to the community. Yeah, I mean, it's like, I mean, you know, honestly, at the end of the day, for this current thing over the last 40, 50 years, who knows who's more responsible. I know who started it. It was Jimmy Carter. Yeah. You kind of have to give that one up. It kind of was him.

And for the worst reason, he thought he was helping. He was so excited. He thought he was doing such a great job. God, yeah, no. Well, let's get into the specifics of like sort of what's a good like entry point into the man clan, which was this like, you know, Tucker Carlson short film about the end of masculinity and like, you know, that's been sort of presented as the testicle tanning documentary, which it certainly is.

But essentially, what this little short film does is articulate the question, you know, the statement, one of my favorite literary quotes from The Dog of the South, we're weaker than our fathers do pre, we don't even look like them. And the documentary starts out, it's just like essentially trying to answer the question, you know, why has like American male sperm counts and viability gone plummeted? You know, why are men less manly than they used to be? And it's interesting, because like he interviews Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and like, you know, scientists who aside like a food scientist who has been censored by the FDA.

And the answer to the question is, why do we not look like our fathers anymore? Is that for the last 40 or 50 years, as Matt and Phil are talking about, we have been systematically poisoned by big agriculture and pharmaceutical companies, which is true. Yes. But the problem is, then it gets into this fucking like the circus of nonsense about like, you know, like eating disorders and working out and all this shit. And instead of like, oh, well, it's the regulatory capture or there could be like solutions to this.

It's like, okay, how do you how do you combat this? Will you foment a hatred of women, minorities, Marxists? Like, I mean, like what starts out is essentially like health and nutrition and masculine mentoring just immediately becomes standard right wing, you know, like bigotries and directing the hatred against, you know, a loss of control over one's own life to Marxists, feminists. So like, how does that process work? Like how did how did the like the pick up artists community or what was essentially advice on health and dating for young men, like mutate into like an obsession with the Frankfurt

School and cultural Marxism? Yeah, I mean, this is a really interesting phenomenon. When I started my PhD about the manosphere, but it kind of ended up being about the alt right purely because that's what bar one site that I was studying all devolved into. And it was a really interesting process. I think it was partly to do with social media. When I first started kind of researching these places, there were a lot of isolated forums and blogs and things like that, which didn't actually have much connection with one another.

But as they kind of started networking over social media, they began borrowing each other's language and finding the new handy phrases for kind of, I guess, expressing your resentment of women, but also your resentment of what you felt was kind of a subversion of the natural hierarchy in general, which didn't just have to be about women, that could be about LGBT, it could be about civil rights. And so, you know, these places started borrowing language from each other, swapping ideas. And that was just the trend that things were going, I think, especially with Trump's kind of election campaign that got lots of them going kind of very in the MAGA direction.

And you kind of notice a difference in what becomes the fantasies on these places as well. You know, it was a really common fantasy in lots of anti-feminist spaces that there will be this day of reckoning. There will be a day when, you know, women who thought they had it all and could be independent and go out and create a career will realise that they need us, you know, civilisation or collapse, zombie apocalypse, whatever. And one thing I noticed was those fantasies became gradually more racialised, just over the course of the time I was studying these places from 2012 to 2016, it stopped being

kind of zombie apocalypse and started being like immigrant hordes, the refugee hordes kind of thing coming through the gate and then women will realise they need the strength of white men. So I think it's about a preoccupation with subversion. You're essentially kind of teaching people to kind of keep an eye out for subversion, wherever you might see it, subversion of natural hierarchies, but also I think a preoccupation with domination. Like, lots of these places start out as, you know, ways for guys not to feel so bad about

getting rejected, but they turn into a preoccupation with domination, a fear of being dominated by women, but obviously if you're kind of feeding in anxiety like that, it won't just stay with women. But I was interested in the Tucker Carlson documentary because that was what I thought it would do, would start with resentment for women and kind of move towards a more coherent right-wing ideology. But instead it kind of started with, you know, you're fat and depressed and feeling poisoned, which I think is, I guess, what a lot of more recent manuscript influences seem to be trying.

It's funny that they had to pick JFK, you know, because he was like so riddled with kind of like disease and like physical weakness, and then he got obsessed with this like World War II veteran who was doing this La Sierra High School PE program, which essentially like put people in color categories and like isolated like low-performing students to kind of make sure that they, you know, were more open to instruction. But it is, like going back to the kind of idea that like the Empire's reach was starting to decay, right? And like the idea that the face of the Empire was actually, or like what accomplished the

American Empire was a bunch of kind of a feat out of shape men. And the cruelty of these a feat men was what actually allowed a lot of these structures to be built or whatever. But the problem is that like now the idea is like, well, no, but those a feat men at least they fucking hated gay people at least they like knew like where to put like how to put women in their place or whatever. And so you have this kind of like dichotomy of like having to rewrite history of like, oh yeah, yeah.

Actually, you know, it was a bunch of strong men that we used to have instead of like the reality of things and they have to fucking fall back on JFK because it's easy because he was killed. So he was killed because he wanted us to be strong, obviously, you know, that's like in the documentary, they do basically say that that he wanted kids to be strong again and then so they fucking killed them. Yeah, the movie implies that he was killed because he wanted PE to come back to American schools.

Yeah. I mean, it's a new one. Well, they didn't start the presidential fitness test until after after JFK came out. I mean, I remember wasn't it the Kennedy fitness test? I remember cursing him the president. He's the one who established that, right? Yeah, he put together a council and the guy the World War Two veteran I mentioned, La Prada, he was on that kind of council and he was the guy who was running this California

school, so it's like a fucking, you know, like liberal state supposedly school of like these strong, you know, young men or whatever. And the idea was basically just like, we had to fucking fight World War Two and now you fucking pussies are just enjoying the spoils and you only basically go to, you know, like to war if you're after after like Vietnam, certainly, like if you're kind of if you want to, you know, but we used to all have to do this. That's bullshit, you know. I remember cheating at the sit and reach for that fucking thing.

Well, that's probably why we became a soy boy. So something that Annie said that I thought was interesting was about the the fear, like not the fear, but like the the wish that like, yeah, civilization collapses and then women will have to run back to us and then that morphs into, oh, third world hordes are going to come in and actually we're going to save them from like, I remember in late 2000s, early 2010s internet thing was Arabia. That was a huge of Muslims taking over the EU and sort of similar to the self-improvement and seed oils and soy and that type of thing.

The interesting thing to me about all this is that it takes these things that are kind of like always like things that men have always done in a modern context that range from like normal to like kind of embarrassing, but everyone does it. Like, okay, every man has had on some level like some type of ridiculous fantasy where they like prevent a terrorist attack or a mass shooting, like the girls in school see them or and like every man, every man has like, you know, wanted to improve their body or felt shitty about it or felt bad or weak or too small or too big or anything like that and gone on, yeah, very, a lot of them have gone on like a very singular quest of self-improvement

that, you know, either you'll learn things about yourself or sometimes in bad cases that will become the only thing you care about. But all these things that previously existed, they morphed when everyone became more insane when in the 2010s, everyone became exposed to each other's every thought all the time. When everyone got shuffled into the same space, the same three places online, it did obviously there are other factors, but I think that contributed to making people fucking insane. Yeah, I don't think there is like much of a recognition that really there's a lot of loneliness out there and that like the people do talk about like put down your fucking phone,

but it's pretty rich coming from people who are basically only appearing to you through your phone. Right? Yeah. This is the most internet shit in the world. Yeah, it's like put down your phone and stop watching my YouTube, fuck, wait, no, actually it's the Marxist like, you know, you have to find something because we're all caught in the same fucking thing at the end of the day, we're just fighting for what is the kind

of cultural facade that will oversee the decline of the empire. So who is the infiltrator as opposed to like what is the aesthetic facade that I would like to see on this shitty decaying empire? You know what I mean? Like so, yeah, I don't know, it's kind of like we're all just like yelling at each other in a cul-de-sac basically. Well, I mean, like, I mean, and back to the end of men that the Tucker Carlson documentary and then I want to get into some of the specific man-o-fluencers that you guys have studied.

But yeah, like Beckman's original point that this is a product of like a kind of that everyone has caught into the idea that like politics is a dead end for changing our society that essentially like it's locked in, the algorithm, the market is in control and the wheel only turns in one direction. So the point of this movie is that like, yeah, like we're being poisoned, we're fatter, we're more depressed, we're less healthy, we're less connected to other human beings. And of course, because it's, you know, Tucker Carlson doing this, it's not like he's going to advocate for, I don't know, universal healthcare as part of an overall like wellness program

or mental health or any kind of like a real regulation of our food supply. So all you're left with are individual choices to purify not just one's body, but one's mind and social circle. So it just becomes, yeah, like you got to cut out the evil things like seed oils and then you have to cut out feminine, the influence of the mother. But what all, what this all boils down to is like what these guys talk about, it's a return to what they regard as like a natural order of things, which is, you know, like of course this is an inherently fascist idea that like, you know, men are to be dominant over women,

that you know, whites are to be dominant over other races, and that like the introduction of feminine influences or the influences of different sexualities or gender identities or immigrant populations are like introducing, you know, Teflon into your body. And it's making, it's making our, not just your body sick, but like our society sick. Because we've rejected this sort of biological natural order and hierarchy. Could you guys talk about that? Yeah. I mean, I think the idea of having rejected the natural hierarchy is a really curious

one. And I think it does go a little part of the way to explaining why it's such a predictable trajectory that most of these sites and most of these influences will go on. You kind of mentioned it earlier where it kind of starts being about picking up chicks and in the end, you're kind of a Christian nationalist who, you know, says you need to have, you know, have a virginal, trad wife and go and live on a farm somewhere. Those both are one counter to each other, like getting as much pussy as possible and being a warrior for Christ are like on the opposite, and it can't really show around.

But it's such a common trajectory and, you know, part of it I think is just people get older, right, but I think another part of it is, I guess, it revolves around this understanding of a natural hierarchy. Because essentially, in order for you to say two things have to be true in this mindset, one is that men are naturally dominant over women and women are happy being kind of passive, submissive kind of housewives. And this is the way that history has always, always been as well in their understanding. This isn't a kind of anachronistic post-war thing.

This is just how history has always been. But also something happened, women went crazy, you know, in the 1960s, suddenly they all burned their bras and decided they wanted to go and work in an office. So how does that happen? You know, how do women become dominant over men if this is the natural, eternal hierarchy? And it's a kind of answer that just needs a conspiracy theory, do you know? Someone needs to have told the women to do that. Someone needs to have influenced them.

And obviously, you know, if you're budding neo-Nazi hanging out on these forums, you've got a really easy answer for who told them to do that. But it doesn't have to necessarily be so explicit, but eventually, you know, will always result in this understanding that there is this sinister kind of cabal, essentially, running things that have upended and subverted this natural hierarchy. And so I think, you know, this is bound to lead most of the people who kind of think very deeply about these kinds of problems, these kinds of questions into a, I guess you could call it paranoid.

I don't really like that word, but yeah, I guess a kind of an anxiety, a fear surrounding modernity itself, I guess, and this kind of retreat, essentially, to a kind of spiritual life, a religious life separate from society. Well, I guess that's like, you know, the crossover between, you know, pickup artistry and a kind of right-wing political ideology. Because like, you know, say what you want about like, you know, mystery and like, negging women or whatever. At the end of the day, what they told you, if you were a guy struggling to get a date or attract women, is that it is your own fault.

And that if you like, but like, there is a solution to it, and here are some practical things that you can do, like strategies that you can pursue that will lead to better outcomes in your dating and social life. You know, you can quibble with the details of it, but like, you know, the essential observation was like, not wrong. But then again, like the trend, the shift now is that they're saying, yeah, like it is your fault because you're weak and, you know, you don't tan your balls, you don't deadlift, you know, you eat seed oils and shit like that.

But then also like, there's nothing you can do about it other than harden yourself to the entire world, you know, like not open yourself up to love and possibility, but in fact to like, you know, shear off all influences that could potentially weaken you because, you know, essentially, there's no escape. Yeah, exactly. And I think, you know, I think neither of those approaches are like particularly desirable, do you know? I don't really like, I guess the response, there's a kind of backlash, I suppose, to

I guess discourse around incels where people will kind of say, we'll pretend people on the liberal left will just suddenly pretend they're like, what, these guys can't get a girlfriend. It's so easy dating so easy, there must be something wrong with them, do you know? And I don't like that either, because I mean, in every scenario, in every situation, we admit that dating is hard, except suddenly when it comes to this one, it seems silly. Well, yeah, yeah, I mean, like, no matter how enlightened anyone is, a lot of people do just default into thinking that sex is just this thing that women reward cool men

with. Yeah. Women don't really enjoy it, it's just a reward for the globalist guys. I've been depressed for the past several days. I've been teaching workshops, I've been building businesses and watching children and doing all the shit that I have to do and never letting out all the sexual synergy and the hunger and anger and frustration and yelling and eating and breathing. I don't want to fuck my life because I'm sucking the sexual energy in.

I don't want to train, I don't want to do anything, I don't want to fucking do anything because it's become a neurotic holding pattern, because depression is a holding pattern. You're holding yourself depressed. I'm holding it in, I'm holding in the energy. You've got to express. I've told you this before, but you've got to express. That's how you get out of depression. Let's get into some of the broader themes and personalities that you guys have investigated.

So I guess there's a couple large categories of investigation that the manosphere makes their bread on. So let's begin first, we alluded to it a little bit before, but let's look at the major category of health and fitness. What are some of the advice that is being pedaled here? What are some of the contradictions that one encounters when dealing with the manospheres and bro science trademark? What is their advice when it comes to diet, health and fitness?

Well, that's a really interesting kind of category because Tucker kind of hides away like a huge part of it, which is, you know, like Elliot Hulls, for example, he's like a guy who basically was like a lifter, right? And he was just doing strength fitness. Yeah, he was a YouTube guy. He was a big success on YouTube in like early, like on the early days of YouTube. And he was basically like, get outside, let's fucking lift tires. You know, it was for the dads of his community or whatever, like get outside, get some air,

like let's fucking get strong again or whatever. And he was investigating all kinds of like super fucking esoteric shit, right? So he was, you know, doing like OSHO meditations, which is that wild, wild country guru guy. And he was really into like William Reich, who's essentially a Marxist, who was kind of obsessed with, with orgasm, orgasm, orgasm, orgasm, orgasm, orgasm, orgasm, orgasm, orgasm. Yes. That's right. By the way, for listeners, we are all recording this episode inside Oregon boxes.

That's right. It's accumulated like crazy. If you'd like any of our Oregon, please email chapotraphouse.com. Yeah, that one is actually true. No, honestly, he was, he was on fire with that shit. Well, I'm right. He didn't have to slay that hard. Seriously.

Oregon is real. I'm sorry. And so like, you know, and he was like reading about Eastern religion and all of this shit. And there's a huge part of that school that stayed in the New Age, which Tucker doesn't want to look at where, like, you know, I mean, there's guys, you know, going, well, actually, the problem is that men can't bond sexually with each other. So they've got to actually literally cross swords. Let's go.

You know, I'm going to be drinking. There's this guy who I've seen his progression and now he's, he's doing a ritual drinking of his own cum and urine mixed together, which obviously is you're probably hopefully you can sell some of that on your website as well. Yeah. Tucker was a coward for not having him on. I thought it was interesting that Elliot Holst was on because yeah, I tracked his progression as you did.

And he was of that rich Piana era. And I almost, I feel like the day that rich Piana died, that ended a lot of like lifting or bodybuilding or strengthlifting or Olympic lifting as an online presence just for the sake of fitness or the sake of looking big because rich Piana certainly wasn't in good health, but like it was, I don't know, I got really into all that shit and exercising a lot in my early 20s and around 2017, when rich Piana died, like everything else got tainted by the awful waste of politics, that entire space. Yeah.

Holst really got into politics, essentially. And even when he was looking for trad religion, he went through a kind of like nationalist MAGA tunnel and was like, okay, well, I want something Western. What is it going to be? And he ends up as a trad cat who like is going to Catholic churches and being like, actually, they're too worldly, like these Catholics are too Jewish for me, they're too liberal. And so like that's a weird shift because right before that he is doing, you know, these kind of Raikyan kind of like, you know, you got to get in touch with your subconscious by

screaming and kind of like shaking and shit and getting all your emotions out or whatever. And after that, he becomes like this really like Stonewall guy, right, who's like actually no. And that's because I think a lot of it has to do with like his dad. His dad was like an immigrant dad, kind of stone face. And the whole time he's like, well, there's something wrong, like my dad's like not letting out all these emotions. Okay, well, there's actually this like grounding that you can do.

You can kind of release it through this, you know, like Raikyan lineage that goes into like this bio energetic therapy and stuff like that. And then finally, like that when Trump comes around, he's like, well, wait a second, what if I just actually just satisfied my dad? It's like full circle. It's like, what if I actually just became a good boy and satisfied my fucking father and became a good Catholic man, you know, who who's fighting for like Western values or whatever.

So it's actually really fucking kind of convenient to end up there after all the exploration. And he was like a Baha'i faith, like universalist and shit for a little while. And but of course, like his idea of religion is also a fantasy, you know, there is no actual that's why he's so frustrated with all the Catholic churches he goes to with his wife. He's like, fuck, none of these people are talking about like the phalanx of manliness that we're going to form and like kill the lefties with all the stuff before that, all the stuff before that that he was doing and all the stuff that a lot of these guys were getting into around that time sort of right before Trump.

It was very like 1970s human development movement, like almost supernatural shit. It's like goofy shit that people believed in the 70s. And it's the root of a lot of like weird cults like nexium. This idea that if you if you see if you get good enough at thinking, you'll be able to like levitate and kill sicknesses in your body and fucking live forever. Excellent. Shit. Yeah.

And obviously, like that's such an appealing thought, especially if you get into really good shape, if you go through that whole journey, it's very edifying and great and satisfying. But if you do that and you're also a very suggestible person, you don't just like give that up when you become a trad cat. You obviously still think like if I go to the right church, I'll like have the fucking powers of prophecy. I'll I'll have Samson's power as if they don't do any of this fucking Vatican to shit. I'll have these all of these powers that I thought I could have when I was studying

this stupid 1970s esoteric bullshit. Okay. So here's the thing I want to talk about in terms of diet and health. It's like, OK, like in terms of like food as culture war, look, steak, that's always going to be for the fellas. It's gross. That's for women. Don't like it.

Get it out of here. What I want to know, though, is how is that classic, like, you know, sort of American red meat hamburger kind of thing and gross vegetables. They suck. I don't like eating them. How did that go from like, like I said, like cultivating insane eating disorders in men? Like, why is it necessary to eat a goat's testicle raw? What is up with eating raw organ meat, raw beef?

Like, what is what is the aversion to cooking? Is that also an agent of feminization? Yeah. I mean, I think the meat thing is really fascinating. One thing we talked a little bit about on our episode on liver king was how it's kind of understanding of different, different foods being for different genders is just like it's such an artifact of modernity in itself, you know, previously kind of households. But before, I think like the 1860s, the household all eats together.

You don't have time to be kind of like making different food for different people. So it kind of doesn't really make sense. There's no real mention of, you know, men should be eating this and women should be eating that. Then there's, you know, a kind of sort of first wave of kind of women hitting the workforce. And advertisers essentially kind of see an opportunity here that they can, you know, start making special cafes just for the ladies and what if it was special food just for ladies as well.

So it's like, you know, despite, yeah, this kind of understanding that red meat is this kind of primal archaic kind of masculine thing, it's, yeah, artifact of advertising like almost everything else. Like, did Neolithic men have that much protein in their diet? I mean, like, it just, it really just depends, like it depends on where they were and like, yeah, what was available to them. They were like hunter gatherers, but we were scavengers primarily, you know, we took what we got.

And I do know that, let's see the Iceman, who was like a preserved cave dude who they found in the hills in a mountain in Italy, they gave an autopsy and he had arterial sclerosis. He was like 35 years old. So it's not, it's like, some of that stuff's bad for you, you know, you got a genetic component there, you know, you're not in charge. My friend took a DNA test and it turned out Otsu the Iceman was like a direct ancestor for him.

Yeah, like liver King's very funny because it's like he is choosing to eat, yeah, you know, completely raw testicles, but he has like a fleet of vehicles. He rides a jet ski, you know, he has a private chef who does all this stuff for him. And so the idea is like, yeah. Private butcher, not a chef, he's not cooking anything, he's just chopping balls off left the right. The hidden shit is that he does do all that other stuff. The real, the reality about this guy is he's a multi-level like marketing guy who, whose

entire personality was built by a social media marketing company that he approached before he even launched his, his social media presence. So he wasn't just doing this and then, and then grows to fame. He was like, how can I package essentially what is going to be nutrition bars and like Alex Jones style shit, really, if you look at it, how can I make this look better? But then like, there's even a shot of him, like he does all this like, like short form content and one of them is like, he's lifting in the shower. And if you look in the reflection of the shower thing, you can see a sink in his bathroom

that's just covered with Budweisers, right? Which is like, he would, he's not supposed to be drinking all this shit. Well, beer is for guys too. It is. It is. And he is a swollen, I wouldn't even say swole because he is swollen and has been fighting the kind of not natty, you know, claims that he's been, have been addressed to him. But it's funny to me that he kind of rose in that place of like, you know, eat naturally

and be like your ancestors, because like, he's like, you know, riding a private jet. He does actually eat all this other stuff as well. And he just realized, oh, like, if I become like the most extreme version of this, it works much, much better for social media. And people have just taken him on face value for that. Like he'll go to MMA fights and eat liver with the MMA guys, because it's like his shtick, right? Like it's like, oh, you're strong and you're an MMA guy, but can you eat a bunch of raw

liver off a plate? And the answer is no, because it's fucking nasty. Yeah, they used to do that on fear factor. This was not a diet. This was like a challenge to win money on television. Yeah. I mean, like the, I guess if you're someone like liver king, you're just looking at the market right now, and it's so saturated with guys who say you have to eat steak that Jordan

Peterson was doing that, you know, years ago. So you have to go take it to the next extreme and, you know, bless liver king. That's exactly what he does. He just like, you know, picks like the most disgusting foods to eat on camera, like, you know, kind of raw testicles and stuff like that. And it's partially, I think just a kind of, it's a USP thing, you know, he's got essentially challenging the rest of them to kind of catch him up on that and make it boring. If you think about like his ancestors too, I mean, you know, like you said, Matt, like

these people had like crazy deficiencies, they would probably eat with like, if the gatherers bring in some vegetables or whatever, like you're going to fucking eat vegetables, but liver king will set up a whole scene where he has all these raw meats, he'll have a big nicely made salad in front of him, and he'll open his video by taking the salad and throwing it behind him. Like smashing. Yeah. Fuck the salad.

I mean, your ancestors would be weeping at that, like, like I said, the whole village. You're wasting the nice salad. All right. So moving on from a diet and exercise, all right, we literally prefer like religion, like the Man of Spheres attitude towards religion and like the irony of all of this growing out of a movement that was just about picking up chicks and then like, you know, morphing into Christianity. But what are some of the like, and you alluded to it on the show, it was one of the funniest

like contradictions that arises here is that a lot of these guys, they grow up either sort of secular or drifting away from the faith that their family or whatever. And then they're like, yes, I need something traditional. I need something aesthetic. I need something Western. And they usually end up hewing towards the Catholic church. And then they are like the disappointment upon encountering what actually going to church on Sunday entails and who's with you.

And also the fundamental problem about a get pussy, alpha masculinity movement devoting them one themselves to Jesus Christ. Yeah. Well, that's just it. That's why I think they're all going to end up following the lead of Andrew Tate, one of the founding guys. They're all going to become Muslims. It is inevitable.

Yeah. They should the ones who do it earlier, they're the smarter ones or the more federal ones. But eventually everyone's going to figure out that's the only live traditional culture that you can be part of Christianity is decadence Christianity is the West. It is seed oil. It is fucking microplastics. You cannot preserve it. Yeah.

They're going to want like women to wear the veil eventually. Like these these guys like Andrew dream Johnson, I don't know if you're familiar with this guy, but he calls himself like the president of the manosphere. And he was like a pickup guy who would just have a room full of guys and he would be talking to you about how like, you know, women are deceitful and shit like that. And all of his videos are like, Oh, are you fucking triggered that like I made a whole conference called like make women great again. And I only invited guys like, does that trigger you?

And now he has to sit down and interview guys who are in traditional marriages that they like started dating the girl at like 14 and be like, wow, it's so admirable or whatever. So everyone has to kind of like walk this weird tightrope and pretend in the same way that they pretend that like Trump is actually alpha. Like Elliot Hulse was literally like the problem with Trump for all of you, you know, liberal crybabies is that he's your daddy. He's your fucking father and you are denying that he has like alpha daddy energy or whatever. But that's just because he triggers the people they don't like, right?

So it's like, Oh, yeah, that's actually really alpha because I got people really angry at me who have blue hair or whatever. Yeah. I mean, I think frankly, any, I think this will probably happen to Andrew Tate as well, you know, is that the truth is the reality of any organized religion will be disappointing to them because, you know, organized religion is essentially about kind of like collective kind of worship, good works, you know, they're heavily focused on community work, usually in charity.

I mean, all of that stuff is just like so beta, right? It's so, it's so not what Jesus Christ himself, you know, he went out like a total bitch. None of his friends jumped out. He just walked up to that fucking cross and he was just the father take this cup from my lips. Yeah. Jesus turned back to the cross and was like, hold me back, bro. Hold me back.

Yeah, his whole speech, he's like, blessed are the beaters, blessed are the blue pills. Like. Yeah, literally the betas will inherit the earth, man, like he's also died at 33, never getting top. Never. No, he got zero pussy. There are rumors that he had some pickup. He had a side piece, they say.

Breathe the Da Vinci code for more Christ like pick up artistry. I think. All right. Yeah, I did agree with Annie though. Like, I don't, I think they're going to be Islam washouts. Oh, no, we can't hack it. I mean, that's all. I'm trying to reproduce this culture that they're only bystanders to because they've

been fully soyified that they, they're refusing to be dialectical again. They're trying to claim some extinct or alien structure that they can't reproduce in their social lives because they don't have social lives, which means it'll end up disappointing them and be cast out for something else. Yeah. I mean, like Elliot Hulse is in it, as I said, a trad marriage. He met the girl at 14 and he's only ever been with one person. And yet his advice to like married men who don't have sex anymore is, is like, walk by

your wife and just grab her by the pussy, literally, you know, just grab her tips. And then if she doesn't react, just, just keep walking. It'll be mysterious. She'll love it. Okay. And if she reacts negatively, that's good. Lean in and be like, you're the kind of woman I want to penetrate. Literally, these are like what he's proposing to like spice up your marriage.

So it's like, in what world does like a trad cat marriage involve convincing the woman that you're like a dangerous beast in the home, you know, that's, you know, you could do anything. Like you're so fucking volatile. Okay. Now let's take into like the next rather large category of interests for the manosphere and that's, and that's sex and relationships. And like I said, like there's a weird metamorphosis going on here from it is the role of a man

to conquer and dominate women and be as promiscuous as possible towards like the more this stuff sort of curdles and metastasizes, the more they reject, I'm not going to say like they're embracing queerness, but the more they like reject heterosexuality like as a concept or like the idea of the idea that it is desirable to attract women and pursue intimate relationships with them. This seems to be a big shift that is going on. Do you guys notice this as well? Elliot Hulse has turned on Andrew Tate because he claims that getting that much pussy basically

makes you a feminist that like by being obsessed with, you know, that was how many jobs Andrew Tate give women out of the home, that's not good into his home, not good, but I will actually defend this guy. This is actual trash shit because in the middle ages, a feminine man was a man who got too much pussy. You spend too much time around his wife and around his mistresses and shit. Yeah. He meant you were a little, you were a little fruity cake.

Why weren't you the boys? Why weren't you hawking? Why weren't you hunting? Why weren't you drinking giant steins of beer and having a fucking brass band play three inches from your face? Yeah. Why weren't you watching a jester suck his own dick? Like Will Blunderfield, Will Blunderfield says that like the most masculine, like they

have completed the full circle because like Blunderfield will say that the most masculine thing you can do that will actually make you more attractive to women is getting your prostate massaged by another man's penis. Hmm. Literally. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. If your homie fucks you in the ass, women will like be so fucking attracted to your magnetic

power after this. I mean, is this is like the sort of the bald, yogi guy who talks about his Celtic ancestor? Okay. Yeah. There was a great video with that guy where he was just like, yeah, like I was just with my brothers. We were in bed filling our mushroom roots together and like this is just what my Celtic ancestors used to do.

Before battle, they would often suck each other's nipples and I was like, yes, bro, my Celtic ancestors were sucking each other's cocks before they got to battle. What's holding you back? Well, he's gotten there, you know, like he's worked his way up to, yeah, okay, he's worked his way up to that. The funniest detail of that specific video is that he's talking about holding his, uh, his bro's mushroom while they're watching Obi-Wan Kenobi. Yes.

Yes. Yeah. These guys don't want to be Alexander the Great. Yeah. Well, they want to be like the, like Louis the 14th, where you get to pick like a bunch of people who go to bed with you that night from like, who's pleased you that day in the court and then you can get venereal diseases from like, you know, six or seven people having sex around you or whatever.

Cause that's the ultimate delight, right? It's the freedom to both get your prostate massaged by your bros and also be an alpha in your everyday life. At the end of the day, like if you're an individual disconnected from any kind of culture and you have to forge your own identity out there, like, you know, the more the merrier, like, you know, you want to try everything before you get to Catholicism. You want to like, there's nothing that isn't included in, in like the, the plate of experiences that you can then form your identity from or whatever, right?

You know, you don't want to give up any of the, of the snacks, you want to try them all. Yeah. And we at Mann Clan would recommend that we recommend exploring your options totally. Yeah. You want to pick a candy bar, every single candy bar in the 7-Eleven and try them all and you'll become, you'll become more manly. I mean, just like this, this is a random aside, but I was just thinking back to like the intro to the Tucker Carlson movie and it was, it was really funny because he was just talking

about how like chemicals, chemicals in our food and water supply have led to grotesque genital abnormalities like smaller penises. Yeah. And then he goes on to like, you know, it's basically like half of it is talking to RFK Junior and the other half is like stock footage from like 1950s, like physical fitness catalogs of like Charles Atlas muscle men and he was just like, just to be clear, this is not gay. And in fact, we've already been accused of being gay because, you know, they don't want to like, they want to undermine the message.

But I mean, I guess like, it's surprising to me that the American right has taken this long to develop their own sort of he-man cult of masculinity because the thing is like, they've always sold that, but the people selling it were here to for like bow tie, pershtickety types like George Will or like fat slobs like Jonah Goldberg, you know, but like now with these like, you know, I don't know, like raw piss nationalists, like, you know, these are cut hunks. These are cuts. These are these are cut studs who are, you know, like they look like what they're selling

and they won't give it away. This is a package that's just for the boys like you do not don't give your masculine energy away. You want to nut up your spine into your chakras. You don't want to actually give out any of your sperm. So like keeping your, your come in, but still jacking off is actually the best way to go basically. So it's like edging.

Yeah. Like this used to be about how to ejaculate, but now ejaculation of any kind is strictly verboten. Well, the problem is that everything feels bad. If you jack off too much, you feel bad. If you get too much pussy, it feels bad. If you're getting no pussy, it feels bad. In fact, it turns out it feels bad no matter fucking what.

So they always have to invent some fucking new way to be like actually the latest thing I found, the latest book I read or whatever, the latest thing I came upon on my path to like becoming the coolest individual that you should learn from online is actually really interesting and cool, but they're going to get bored of that too. I mean, I think that's the problem, right? We're all just like going through the different experiences and realizing like none of these are actually fixing the kind of like feeling that there's something missing, that there's not, there's a hole where like the kind of culture that used to keep us together was.

And I think, I do think we need to like figure out a message for that and kind of admit that maybe it's not great that like the most political power we have is like to change the cape color on like the superhero or whatever. Well, yeah. I mean, I guess like in terms of where this is all going, I mean, I think like go back to what we were talking about at the beginning as Matt said, I mean, I saw there was like an article by Ezra Klein the other day and he was like, well, he was like a vote for the GOP in the midterms, like what they're promising there is just more crisis.

And you know, like the Democrats offer an alternative to that. But Matt, your point was like, it's not a stable situation in which only it is like the piss drinking nationalists who are acknowledging that we are a society in a number of different crises. And you can't just say, oh, like, yeah, like corporate America has been poisoning you and killing you and destroying your life, just unfettered now going on 30 to 50 years and shows no sign of slowing down. And the response to that can't simply be, no, they're not, or actually, you're not

sad. Yeah, everything's fine. Actually, like you've been looking at Russian websites again. It's all just how we process it, right? That's those are the choices. Right. Yeah. Because it's like the crisis didn't go away when Brandon became president.

Yes, he promised stability. Did he fucking deliver it? Well, Brandon doesn't have crisis mindset. So that's the important thing. Yeah. That's all that matters. So these guys, they want a soothing image on their television. They want to think that somebody is in charge who understands things aren't that bad.

They don't want people running around waving the fucking, you know, banging pots and pans together and saying, hey, it is that fucking bad. Well, that's it. It's like you're in palliative care. You don't want to be reminded you're in palliative care. You want to change the fucking channel so it's a more soothing channel or whatever. But Matt, I think you are right that like, yeah, it is a kind of process of like picking who is going to be on the TV during your palliative care or whatever.

Right. Instead of any kind of project that might, you know, show the kind of solidarity that could topple a movement, you know, slonking raw eggs with your bros is actually going to make you feel better while, you know, the inevitable happens. Well, yeah. And then they do have a few, there is a pathetic, like the raw egg nationalist in that video is the guy who's like, oh, fuck off, go sell something else. Because at least these other guys, it's like, hey, maybe it is good to nut those seed oils.

Maybe, maybe testicular tanning is good for you. I don't fucking know. I'm not a doctor. But the guy goes, oh, the individual is strong and then the nation is strong. Oh, okay. Yeah. Some fucking political multi-level marketing scheme. Yeah.

The globalists don't want you to know about eggs. Yeah. And the idea that you should go back to like Vince Geronda, like the kind of predecessor of this guy is a bodybuilder who called Arnold Schwarzenegger fat, basically. Oh, he's a pig or Schwarzenegger is a pig. Nasty pig. Nasty pig. And, but his whole thing, like the kind of guy who, who they're trying to model like

this, this idea of like the masculine body that's supposed to represent the nation in our new like fascist utopia was just a bodybuilder. He wasn't even like a strength guy. He was just like, you go to the judges, you kind of preen in front of them, you do the different poses and they rate you, right? So it's just, it's all kind of like weird aesthetic shit and honestly, kind of soy cook shit. Yeah.

And I think this, that's because this particular branch of, I guess, like reactionary masculinism is like it very much came from bodybuild, from bodybuilding forums. Like, I don't know. It was a kind of strange, strange evolution, but incels also kind of, or like incel culture often like comes from bodybuilding forums as well, because it's like guys who are like, what the fuck? I did all of this and I still don't have a girlfriend and get furious. But there's also this kind of, yeah, I guess because so much of those bodybuilding forums

were guys who were going in it motivated like that to pick up women. They became this kind of a really interesting sort of style of, I guess, anti-feminism. There's like one kind of slightly infamous post on the bodybuilding forum, which like has like 500 replies or something where it's like a guy who's just like, is anyone else just like not find women's bodies attractive anymore, like actually a bit disgusting? Yeah. And he's like, don't you think like, yeah, he's like, they're kind of like too soft and like too curvy.

It's all like reminding you of like nature and stuff where it's like, you know, they're like hard masculine lines of a man's body now, now we're talking, that's just more objectively more beautiful, right? Yes, ma'am. And it's kind of this sort of like political fetishization, I guess, of masculinity, which kind of has this, I guess, erotic quality, particularly when it's put on like visual on film, like Taka Carlson's documentary. Like I said, like you cannot lie, you cannot lie, but it's not.

Like you cannot lie, the testicle tanning guys, they look good, the bodies are hidden. The funny part is that Benjamin Braddock guy who's like, who's the supposed testicle tanning like influencer in that documentary, I went on his Twitter and he is just fucking bitching about Bolsonaro losing just just endless tweets about how it sucks. And it's a U.S. backed coup that made like Lula Wynn and you know, the leftists are doing violence. Now we're mad about U.S. backed coups. So he's just like, I mean, and also like, I think Tucker basically wanted him to say

tanning because it's not even tanning. It's literally like red light, right? It's just red light and they've shown that it can like, like wounds will close faster. There is like medical background to that, but it's not even actually tanning. This coward would never sit under a sun lamp and put his precious balls in the toilet. Oh, I was just going to say, like, because there are guys who do tan their balls, right? Like, that's like a guess on the more kind of new age side of it. And I guess they got it from, I think it was a like new age women's practice, like in the

70s, I think it was called like sunning your yoni. Getting your yoni out there. Yeah. So they've kind of like adopted that. And then I guess, yeah, decided to make it like alpha. I will not get with a woman unless her clit is tanned. The more obsessed you get with alpha masculinity, the more you will turn your, your brain into a chick.

And by that, I'm sorry. Don't be too offensive. A stereotypical misogynist view of what a woman behaves and thinks like. Yeah. No, the thesis is proven. Hulse, you know, the kind of finale of his trajectory is he's now doing a war on vice and by that he means vice news because he's pissed off about the piece that they put out on him.

Which, you know, hey, I'm with you, but then he's also selling this like Patriot products MLM thing and he's selling it by being like defeat communism and piss off the globalists by buying these products. Get rich while pissing off the communists. Oh, yeah. Because the hook is that none of the products are made in China, right? Yeah. Communist China.

Yeah. The other funny thing about the Tucker Carlson documentary is just all the interjections from Tucker himself because it's like half of it, it's like a shirtless guy cutting down a tree with an axe and then it cuts back to like Tucker's studio and he's just sitting there in a blue Oxford shirt and look, you know, like Tucker's not like the ugliest man in the world, but he has, I'm sorry, very soft feminine feature. The mother fucker wore a bow tie for 30 fucking years on television in public. Yeah.

But who remembers that, man? Who remembers that? No one can remember anything. And also, like, you know, like the way he, shall we say carefully edited his interview with Kanye West, I mean, he carefully edits details of his own life. Like for instance, did he and his family get the vaccination or not? Did he get the clot shot? What he says to that is like, hey, buddy, I didn't ask you the last time you fucked

your wife. And it's just like, okay, well. Is he an actual deep state operative? How about that one? Yeah. Yeah. How about like, what happened with that CIA, you know, the process of trying to get in? Did they not let you in because maybe you had a better role to play as a kind of Anderson

Cooper out there? Wait, did he actually try and join the CIA? Yeah. Yeah. He was turned down. Supposedly. They say he tried to, but plenty of people like quit or fired the CIA or never formally joined it.

We had an arrangements with them. Oh, I thought that was just like part of your, part of your joke. Oh, no. No, I was not joking on man clan. Like he did try to join and I mean, yeah, if you have him on the right and Anderson Cooper on the left, I think we have a great balanced media. Did Anderson Cooper try and join the CIA as well? Oh, well, no comment there.

Annie, I'll send you, I'll send you some documents. Do your research. Okay. Just do further research. Yeah. Do your own research, Annie. I'm sick of this shit. He's just a Vanderbilt.

I mean, like, yeah, Tucker, Tucker never saw like an Imperial expansion. He didn't love until like, yeah, 2016 and even then, I mean, even then it's the exact same shit. He was chasing an audience. He's like all these guys. He's just the biggest version of any of these motherfuckers. Like that's why people say he's going to run for president. He's too fucking lazy to run for president.

Yeah. Why would you give up being the TV guy? Yeah. You get to say whatever you want. Everybody hangs on your every word. You triggered the libs more than anybody else without having to like campaign and see a regular scumbag humans and like get up before noon. I have a blind item about Cooper if you want it.

Obviously cannot prove that this is true in any way. I'm sure the source that gave it to me is full of shit or whatever, but apparently they had like, you know, during this like debunking craze, which, you know, like our podcast, we try to like not just do this kind of like debunking that like, I don't know, something like CNN would do or whatever, but like they got into this whole misinformation, disinformation thing and they were started to explore conspiracy theories and they got interested in like, well, there's so many conspiracy theories about you, Anderson. Wouldn't it be cool if we did like a bit on that?

And so this is obviously totally blind item, but they, they started the process of that and things got so fucking weird that they were like, yeah, never mind. Let's just can this dude. Well, I guess like to, to wrap things up for here. I just, Julian and Annie, like we talked, we talked, we started talking about how like there is a, you know, whether it is vegetable oil is bad for you or that, you know, exercising actually is a good cure for mild depression or are it like cultivating a certain confidence and self-esteem and fighting against sort of fragility in yourself is a good way to

like practice and become more successful in attracting the object of one's desire. Like in terms of talking to young men who for many reasons are depressed and alienated by the conditions of the modern world, what are some sort of non-political or practical advice that, that like they're not being told by these hucksters and multi-level marketing, multi-level marketers that are pitching to them? It like, is there a way to acknowledge the problems that young men face, which are I think overwhelmingly dismissed by the left as being some sort of like fundamentally hateful or frightening thing?

Like is there, is there a way to talk to these alienated people that doesn't involve, you know, the Frankfurt School and cultural Marxism? Damn, yeah. That's, that's a hard one. I mean, I think that like, yeah, we have to admit that you guys have been talking about this a bit recently, you know, like our phones and the constant kind of living through an image of yourself and others. It's not helping, you know, and like the, I hate to just be like, touch grass, but like,

yeah, I mean, you might want to touch some grass. You might want to be more around actual human beings in your life. That's the dagger in the heart here is that you can't really give them an alternative because the only real alternative to descending into this fantasy world is to talk to people around you. And that's fucking sucks. And it's, it's, it's hard. It can be embarrassing and tedious, and a lot of people don't even have a lot of opportunities

to talk to other people in their daily life. Well, if you're young, they grew up under the same fucking conditions you did. They also have very few memories of the world before this. They're also as fucking hamstrung and socially crippled as you are. It's like, it is like genuinely horrifying. So date older women, yeah. Date older women who don't use cell phones, a fine Dowager, you want to find yourself a mature woman who was denied a smartphone for some reason.

I don't know. I mean, yeah, it's like, honestly, there is no a solution that, that, that can kind of get people outside of the structure and trajectory that currently exists, right? But you can still in your everyday life, get more into actual human beings around you and get, you know, out there and do things. You can, if we're going to talk about like how to improve yourself as an individual, which is the kind of advice that actually comes from these people online, my advice is like, get offline.

Don't be a guy who's looking for advice online. It's funny, you know, the one thing that gives these guys such a huge advantage in the marketplace of ideas, an enemy and a villain is the exact same thing that means that they can't actually help these people. Because if you give people a fucking enemy and a villain, well, then there's somebody you can imagine a battle with and boom, you're in the realm of the political without even meaning to be, you're in the realm of, I'm going to, we're going to beat these people. That means that you don't have to look at the harder question of how do I actually individually

improve? Like they show these guys bodybuilding and eating the raw meat and shit. But most of the people who like aspire to that, that's a very daunting lifestyle. They don't have the means to do it. There's also the idea of like, get out of this idea of lifestyle because when you talk about fitness and nutrition, that used to just be like enjoying sports and fucking food. What the fuck does nutrition and fitness mean? Like that should have.

If there's a villain, then you don't, you have an excuse basically. So you have to tell people, I'm sorry, there are malfactors of great wealth responsible for all of this and at all, you can make sense of it, but in your life, you actually do have to do things that help you and that isn't wage this grievance war against the phantom enemy. Yeah. It's talk to people because you can help each other. Yes.

Don't be a digital soldier. Don't be in an invisible war. The most horrifying thing is talking to people, but also one of the only ways to live a meaningful life. I will say that nutrition and fitness have always been coupled. There have been conflicting ideas about it over time, but they've never, I mean, putting them together isn't exactly a new idea. I would say that hyper fixation on some things and like entire categories of food, whether

they're like vegetables or whatever like goofy shit people are talking about is newer and more internet-y, but I don't even, it's not necessarily bad to pay attention to what you eat either. Oh no. Of course not. No, I mean, I think what's heartbreaking about so many of these influences that we look at is that what they're telling you to do is on the face of it really good advice, do you know?

Yeah. Yes. Like I watched one guy who, you know, starts off like an hour long video and the first thing he does is like, okay, just like pause this video and go and make your bed and then like go and do something hard and then like do this and he's just kind of giving all of these little tasks for like, I guess, a depressed young person, but they're all exactly like what a therapist would also like say to somebody in that position. It's about like kind of taking action and doing stuff and you can see the comments on

like lots of these videos that like, I don't know, you'll see lots and lots of comments on even the most kind of extreme wacky guys or people will be like, this guy saved my life. And even a reason to disbelieve them, even like a lot of the dating stuff, even if it gets a bit kind of weird and sexual assaultee down the end, often starts out with basically what we've been saying here, which is like, go out and talk to people, talk to as many people as possible. It's all good advice.

And no fear rejection or like, rejection is not the end of your life. Exactly. If you get used to it, like, you know, it's just, it's not like the be all end all of your value as a human being. Yeah, exactly. But it's, it's, I guess, I guess it's the fact that it's, it's tied in with this incredibly poisonous kind of view of the world, which just leads to further resentment and fear and kind of like slow mistrust of almost everybody around you, apart from the few other people

that you know, who kind of subscribe to this ideology wholly. I guess it's about uncoupling that it's about uncoupling, essentially this generally quite good innocuous, like lifestyle advice for people who, as we know, kind of like are facing an epidemic of kind of loneliness and alienation from, I guess, this, this kind of status anxiety that it seems to be so malignantly tied up with in one sphere politics. Not everything is like tuning to become your best self. Like there's actually life and what I meant by addressing fitness and nutrition, it's like, get into things where nutrition and fitness are part of the process.

They're not sort of a sort of like end in and of themselves. I think that this is also a very like, you know, kind of Western or like US centric way of thinking of self development and becoming the, the cool, the best and perfect individual or whatever. Yeah, biohacking. Get out of that, that sphere of things of like life is a tuning process to your perfect self because it denies essentially death, decay and the reality of that side of things. Well, I don't know.

This may seem counterintuitive or contradictory to everything we said about getting out and talking to people, but I do sincerely think there's a value, especially for young people who have very few memories before this gamified human interaction and communication. Try to spend some time not escaping from your own thoughts. Even when you think that you are totally alone, you are still inundated with this slot machine of human communication or like a game or something you're just watching in the background just so you can hear the audio of people talking so you don't have to think about where you are in that moment in your life or anything.

That doesn't mean you just, you know, work out and then you have your designated talking to people time and then sit alone in a room, you're not a prisoner, you shouldn't live like that. But there is some value to not just mortgaging away every moment that you have with yourself and not managing and delaying every silent moment with yourself. I think people now are so alienated from their own thoughts and their unadulterated selves that it's torture to them, to a lot of us, when they're first put outside of it. Yeah, I hate the Shavasana part in yoga.

Along the lines of Julian and Felix, your thoughts here, I mean, as best I can like offer any kind of practical advice or like just a way to think about these things. I mean, I think back to my, you know, early 20s in which I was probably at my most angry and depressed, like lonely young man and I remember thinking when I graduated college, like if I don't have like a job, a place of my own and like a relationship or just the comfort of, you know, fun, meaningless sex, if I don't have at least two of those three things, I'm going to kill myself. And for a long time, I didn't have any of those fucking things and it was fucking miserable.

But I think like looking back on it now, the way out of it was like each one of those things of like self-improvement makes the other thing more likely and you can't just vote. You will achieve the one that you really want by focusing on the other. Like it's a reinforcing thing that you're like, you're never going to get out directly, but crucially in all areas, you have to be actively engaged in your life. And like it's something that you've said, and I'll repeat again, it's like this feeling of passivity that's so easy to encourage in yourself and to fall into. And the way out of it is by actively engaging with your own life and you will achieve like

a career, real responsibilities, friendships and have like more opportunity to meet the person who you could end up being in a relationship with or even having sex with. If you pursue the other areas of your life, that one thing leads to another and each successive step will make the next one easier. But like the more you withdraw inward, the more you end up, you know, with an anger towards the rest of the world, a hatred of women, which is really just a hatred of yourself and your own passivity. Yeah.

And if you go through life max-minning, like you're not going to enjoy any of the processes, right? Because a lot of the good parts of life that are kind of open-ended, ambiguous, like they involve interactions and being out there in the world or whatever, they're not necessarily going to like bring, like get your stats up or whatever, right? I mean, it's not a fucking RPG. Like go and actually enjoy the weird ambiguities of life, of relationships, of going out to do an activity and maybe meeting people in the process of that.

And maybe the activity isn't an activity that's named after like a fucking stat that you're going to bring back home, having like, you know, like gotten more XP for. Like I do think that people tend to always bring it back to the self and like, what can I get from it? And it's like, no, like life is something larger, I think it's not about like your life really. It's about, you know, are you out there actually experiencing these moments instead of running away from them?

Sounds new agey or whatever, but basically don't take advice online. If you're going to meditate, you can just meditate. You can find some guy who like made a guided meditation years ago who doesn't have an MLM to sell you. If you want to work out, you can work out at your like local gym, you can meet somebody who's into it and fucking get inspired by that person or whatever. There are ways to like replicate all of this stuff that is being essentially like cataloged and commercialized online for self-improvement in reality in, you know, and it's not going

to be perfect. It won't be the best advice that you'll get from like that random guy you met, but it'll be real advice from a human being, not, not like someone who's been designed by a social media company. Julian, that's a great place to leave it and also a great place to remind our listeners that I will be selling my alpha brainwave semen. I'll be sending, I'll be sending mennaker loads, check, check the website, we'll be selling those, I'll be selling loads, and you're in to maximize your brainwave potential.

I've been a subscriber and like the mennaker boxes, they seemed to like, I don't know, like the cum is thinner than it used to be or something. Have you guys been doing cost saving on that or, because like the vials are not as full? Are you diluting the cum? Are you stepping on it? Well, we can have your end of period product going out under the Chapo brand. This is only the highest quality semen, we promise. Do not get stepped on piss, do not get stepped on cum.

Look, by the 10th load of the day, it's pretty difficult to be roping out high quality product. But look, listeners, I will do better. All right, Julian and Annie, I want to thank you guys so much for joining us. If people would like to listen to the QAnon Anonymous Man Clan series and delve even further into the world of the Mano Sphere, and it's many exciting and hilarious personalities, where can they go? They can go to patreon.com slash QAnon Anonymous or just look for QAnon Anonymous on any kind of podcast distributor platform.

And on Twitter, we're QAnon Anonymous. So come and hang out, come and get content, five bucks a month, and everything's included, you know? I mean, we basically copied the Chapo model. And there's even a really cool conspiracy theory by this like Radlib guy out there that I want to mention that says that you guys made us so that we could forgive Russian crimes in the sphere of disinformation. So fax.

Thanks for that. I appreciate it, we'll be taking our cut of the Man Clan, we'll work that out later. Yeah, I'll send you some loads, Julian, Julian, Annie, QAnon Anonymous, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank y'all. Thanks for having us. All right. Till next time, guys.

Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye. One more time. Bye-bye. Superman, superman, shot the fly like a superman, superman, superman, wanna be like...