Chapo Trap House - 783 - Dream Hoarders, LLC feat. Madinah Wilson-Anton (11/20/23)

Episode Date: November 21, 2023

To celebrate Joe Biden’s 81st birthday, we’re joined by Delaware state representative Madinah Wilson-Anton to dish about all things Delaware. Rep. Wilson-Anton leads us through Delaware’s legal ...peculiarities that make it ripe for international corporate malfeasance, her personal experiences with Joe Biden and his “think tank,” and some tales of Delaware politics, ranging from corporate crime, feral senate dogs, chip thievery, and lots of casual racism.

Discussion (0)
Starting point is 00:00:00 Music You're reading his friends, it's Monday, November 20th, and you know what that means, it's happy birthday, Joe Biden. We're doing a special birthday episode for Joe Biden, and you know, if you're like me, listen to her, you're probably wondering what's wrong with Joe Biden. We're doing a special birthday episode for Joe Biden. And, you know, if you're like me, listen, or you're probably wondering, what's wrong with Joe Biden? I mean, aside from the obvious, well, for today's episode, we look to his home state, the often overlooked state of Delaware. And to join us to discuss Biden, the Democratic Party, and the state of Delaware, we are pleased to welcome Representative Medina Wilson Anton from Delaware. Medina, welcome to the show.
Starting point is 00:01:10 Thank you. Thanks for having me. I got to say I am a long-time listener, and so I'm so excited to be joining you guys today on our President's birthday. This is the real President's Day, President Joe Biden Day. But Medina, I've been like first things first. You're a state representative in the Delaware State government. You are in the Democratic Party. You've come out in favor of a ceasefire right now.
Starting point is 00:01:33 I just got my first question is, what are you hearing from your constituents about this issue and also, crucially, what are you hearing from the state Democratic Party that you're a member of? Great question. So I'll start with the second one. The answer to that is nothing. The state Democratic Party has said nothing. Most folks in office in Delaware have said nothing.
Starting point is 00:01:53 I'm in the minority of folks who have actually come out and said, we're in support of a ceasefire. On October 8th, 9th, there were quite a few folks that were doing this dam with Israel, kind of, you know, thing. And then as far as what my constituents are saying, I'm getting a lot of folks reaching out to me on Instagram, Twitter, thanking me for being so vocal about the issue, thanking me for being one of the few voices that's actually saying anything, and representing them.
Starting point is 00:02:22 And then I also am getting of course my favorite the trolls, the folks that never voted for me, will never vote for me who were like, I can't believe that my neighbors are so stupid that they voted for you, but you're going to burn in hell. So that's where I'm getting my satisfaction kind of thing. And I'm like, all right, you know, and they kind of pop up, they tend to pop up around after the local right wing station talks about me and then they kind of like come out of the woodwork and then they go away. So Delaware is a finest AM radio.
Starting point is 00:02:56 But Medina, I guess like, I mean, you know, we've been talking about the show on our most recent episode about this kind of the huge generational split on this issue in the Democratic Party. And I'm just wondering, like, what your perspective is on that? And like, when you talk to older Democrats or people who aren't doing or saying anything about this, like, I mean, did they respond to you? Like, what is the, what are you trying to communicate about how badly they are screwing up this issue? Oh, I mean, I think what's really frustrating is I'm not just seeing the generational divide. I'm seeing like most Democrats of all ages
Starting point is 00:03:30 that I talk to are supportive of a ceasefire at the very minimum, right? Like that's not even a conversation with most of them. And it's mostly like very entrenched establishment type people that are not my voters, but that are other folks in office or political advisors in air quotes People that think they know the issues that are saying like oh well no ceasefire actually we had a ceasefire on October 6th Right, like I'm hearing a lot of that kind of garbage. I've been hearing quite a bit of that I've been hearing quite a bit of that line myself actually
Starting point is 00:04:00 Yeah, yeah, I've seen that line Just deployed like whenever Like where it doesn't even make sense. I saw someone use it to try to justify why Israeli helicopters accidentally like killed a bunch of Israelis on October 7th. They said, well, they may have been confused because there was a ceasefire up until that day. Okay. So I guess they're just busting it out for like anything now. I mean, I had someone respond to me,
Starting point is 00:04:30 there was a ceasefire on October 6th, when I just posted a screenshot showing Reuters polling on the weight of public opinion on this issue. But Dean, like obviously like Joe Biden is the focus because he's the leader of the Democratic Party and he is really like the face of US policy on this issue right now. And he is like, I think a guy throughout his entire career that has been like one of Israel's biggest supporters in his 50 years in US government.
Starting point is 00:04:55 But like, I guess just like, from your perspective, as a Delaware resident, what is it about the state of Delaware? I mean, Biden himself has said, you know, my when I die Delaware will be written on my heart. What a famously plagiarized mine by the way. Who said that first? I think a poet or something. I don't. I'm not well read clearly. But I do know the plagiarism checker is going off the charts there. So people, I think Delaware is a really weird place. I love it.
Starting point is 00:05:29 It's where I'm from. But I will say just last week, Joe Biden's hometown of Wilmington, the largest town in our city, sorry, their city council voted to support a ceasefire. And they actually passed a resolution calling on our congressional delegation and on Biden to support representative Bush and to Leib's bill in Congress. So I mean, I just don't think that our leadership is representative of the people and I know that sounds corny probably, but like I'm not talking to regular Democrats that are Zionists that are saying things like Joe Biden, like if there wasn't it, Israel would have to create an Israel. Like that's a very outdated, calcified kind of way
Starting point is 00:06:10 of thinking about the issue. And I'm seeing young people, old people, people of all colors and backgrounds show up to protest and actions locally. And they're really frustrated that we feel like our voices are not being heard by our leadership. So. I mean, I guess like when you're considering a situation in which like the overwhelming
Starting point is 00:06:28 weight of the Democratic will in a party is on one side and then the leadership of the party is telling you why that can't happen and they're not going to do it. I mean, like, yeah, it sets up a little bit of a, I don't know, it's sort of a precarious balancing act for a purportedly democratic nation or at least one that purports the defend and represent democratic values. But the state of Delaware in particular is almost a state like created from its inception to thwart democracy. It's just like there's, I mean, like there's a lot of like, I mean, whether it, I mean, there's a lot of ways to think about Delaware. Like one, it's like a giant tax haven. Two, it's sort of like the personal fiefdom of the psychopathic Dupont family.
Starting point is 00:07:09 And then there's also the home of Joe Biden. But like, your experience, like, I mean, I guess like for our listeners who maybe aren't familiar with you, because you talk about like, I mean, what was it like growing up in Delaware and how you got involved in the Delaware political scene? Sure. So I was born and raised here to transplants. Delaware is the kind of place where people are like, where you from, if you weren't born here, you're not really from here. It kind of thing. So I'm definitely a Delawarean.
Starting point is 00:07:37 My dad worked for DuPont. Like many people that I grew up with, they're one of their parents worked for DuPont. Someone in their family worked for DuPont. I live off of DuPont highway. DuPont is kind of through and through Delaware. And I got into politics. I was always kind of interested in international affairs, growing up Muslim in a very diverse Muslim community here.
Starting point is 00:08:00 I learned about foreign policy through my classmates and their families and the US's role. And so my goal kind of going to school was I want to go work for the UN, you know, very depressing now thinking about the UN. But that was my dream as a kid and I was looking for an internship and the only paid internship in town was working in our state's general assembly. So I threw my hat in the ring and got an internship there. And the rest was kind of history. I was really like inspired by how much you can do at
Starting point is 00:08:30 the state level in Delaware. But I also, it's like this balance between being inspired and being supremely depressed and disgusted. I was elected in 2020. And at the time I was the youngest member at 26 and I was the first Muslim I ever elected to a body that's historically been very white, very male, and only recently it's becoming more female, more people of color. But you see a lot of that, like you see a lot of not so much the DuPonts anymore, but the new guard of lobbyists that represent corporations that are headquartered here. I've been really, I'll use the word disgusted again, a lot of waste things are done, and I think we're probably going to talk some about corporate laws here in Delaware, but I recently had an interaction with that as a legislator and it's just like really frustrating and I think one of the things that's important to me is kind
Starting point is 00:09:30 of bringing light to Delaware's role in corporate transparency, bringing light to that to like a national audience and international audience because laws that we have in Delaware that govern corporations impact people worldwide. One of my like radicalizing movements, I'll say, was when I was in intern, this delegation came from the European Union, and they were on the fact finding mission after the Panama papers and the Pandora papers, and they wanted to know like why we were allowing all of these nefarious actors
Starting point is 00:10:04 to incorporate here and not do anything about what they're up to. And I'm sitting in there, I'm just taking notes, right? I'm just like observing. And a senator and a representative were like, oh, welcome to Delaware. Have you had a chance to see our beaches, our beautiful beaches? And they were like, no, we are not here for tourism. We are here because you are a funzing, the fariest exos, across the world. And I was just like, oh my god, this is so embarrassing. I was supremely embarrassed. And they start asking questions. Like, it was like people from all over Europe, all different accents, right? And they're like, why have you chosen not to, you know, ask for more information when LLCs are formed, and things like that. And, and one of the representatives who was a Democrat, by the way,
Starting point is 00:10:55 is like, well, we have an aging population, and we wouldn't, we don't want to tax our, our senior citizens. So we have to fund our government somehow. Were these like, were these like, progressives? That's, that's amazing. I've never heard that excuse before. Were these like, like, interpol people were coming in? What was the title of it?
Starting point is 00:11:19 It was a special mission or some kind of, like, they set up this group, the EU set up the group. And I tried to like contact one of the people through LinkedIn, they never responded. But like I have like, if I want it, if you want to track them down, they might answer you guys. But it was really embarrassing. I think they disbanded after like some time. But yeah, I just was like, wow, this is like, you know, like when you cringe with your whole body, kind of, and like try to disappear into your chair.
Starting point is 00:11:50 Yeah. Yeah. As like, you know, like a dozen of the angriest Dutch people aren't placated by Roboth Beach. Yeah, they were not interested in tourism. How did they respond to like the elderly population line? Honestly, I don't remember. I could make it up, but I really remember that first question.
Starting point is 00:12:16 The answer being so embarrassing. And then I was in a group chat with other interns and I was just kind of like live streaming it to them. Like, guys, come to the Senate hearing room. Like, it's so embarrassing. And like at the time I thought I was still trying to go like international like with work and stuff and I was like, well, this is not a great look for me for networking after this. Um, yeah, I mean, well, it gets you off on a, you know, not the greatest foot. Going to the U.N. and be like, oh, you guys might remember me from during your guys' worst
Starting point is 00:12:56 work trip ever. If I was smart, I could have gone over them to the afterwards and been like, hey, everything that guy said, I don't agree with that. He's got any jobs. Well, I mean, it's the reason that the Europeans were at this meeting and the reason for Delaware and the reason for Joe Biden lies in the legal formulation known as the limited liability corporation. And the thing is, like, why is Joe Biden the leader of the Democratic Party? How has he been in government for 50 years as one of the leading Democrats?
Starting point is 00:13:31 Is it that he represents the voters of the state of Delaware? Or does he represent the many LLCs chartered in Delaware? Oh, is that actual question? I mean, I guess I mean a rhetorical, I don't know. I mean, I think it's definitely a big part of his success as the business community propping him up. I also will say as someone who is only recently leaving the stages of grief over my relationship
Starting point is 00:13:58 with our president, right? Like, I think most Delawareans are really proud to have a president from Delaware finally, right? And like, he is a very charismatic person. I know that's crazy to say because you only see him as like sleepy in the international space. But like, he is actually like pretty easy to talk to down the earth. Very good at taking selfies.
Starting point is 00:14:17 Very good at that. So, I mean, I think he definitely has been successful for some of that reason. But the LLCs, the corporations, I mean, the banks, like that's kind of like the new Dupont, I'll say, here, are definitely a big part of his success. Do you want to talk more about? Yeah. He seems to like, yeah, really be in deep with both banks
Starting point is 00:14:41 and insurance. And I mean, he's a very interesting political figure because like you talked about his charisma, and it's true. Like one of the reasons that like his posture during the 2020 primary was so like alarming is because the entire time that Biden has been, you know, a national figure, he's the last like national retail politician, at least in conduct. He presents himself in this way that really doesn't exist anymore. But at the same time, he is very much the style of Democrat that has existed since Carter, where they're doing things like making
Starting point is 00:15:27 it nearly impossible to declare bankruptcy, and you know, mostly delivering things for the financial insurance lobbies. Yeah, I think he's a very good example of someone who does both. So another terrible part of my career I'll share is I worked for the Biden Institute for a few years, which was like supposed to be a policy think tank setup after he left the vice presidency, but actually was more of like a vanity project, surprise, surprise. And when I arrived there, I was still kind of like, I was excited. I thought, you know, Biden, middle class, Joe, all that kind of stuff, right? And was excited to do some policy work. One of the first meetings I went to beforehand, he had all of the staff read Dream Horders.
Starting point is 00:16:16 Dream Horders. Yeah. I'm really with that. It was popular, like, this is probably four or five years ago now. Popular book about like the about the upper middle class kind of hoarding opportunity, legacy admissions and colleges, that kind of stuff, right? He read it, I don't know who gave it to him,
Starting point is 00:16:34 but he read it and was like, this is the best book ever. I want everyone on my staff to read this. I had already owned the book, and I was already interested in it, so I was like, this is so cool. He actually cares about the middle class and wants to do something about this. And I get to work the next day after I finished reading it. And my co-workers were all pissed that he made us read it.
Starting point is 00:16:54 And they're like, I don't know why. I mean, I worked really hard. Yeah, my mom may have got me an internship at the law firm, but I worked really hard to get into college. And I worked really hard to get into college. And like, and like hard to hold these dreams. Right, I was just like, oh my God, I'm surrounded by the dream orders. And what was really shocking to me was
Starting point is 00:17:15 his people around him are not middle class. Like he still has that kind of like, he sees himself right as middle class Joe and he cares about the working class. And like at one point in this Meeting where I'm taking notes and like not sharing right He starts talking about The college savings plans that can save you money your tax money, right?
Starting point is 00:17:37 I forget what it's like 55 something B or whatever and he's like who even has these like what kind of rich people Are these who have these plans that save their money and they're not paying taxes? Like, it's on their kids to college. And afterwards, at dinner, one of his like top advisors was like, I have one of those plans. I don't know what he's talking about. Everybody knows how it's one of those plans.
Starting point is 00:17:56 He's like, oh man, I don't think he realizes just how terrible everyone around him is, which is both endearing and terrifying at the same time. Yeah, I mean, it's like politics now is, you know, exactly like media in the sense that like, you know, there are people who come from like working class backgrounds here and there, but for the most part, it's pretty strictly limited to people who can withstand making no money for like decades at a time.
Starting point is 00:18:31 So it's like, who do you think you're gonna get in those positions? Yeah, like my boss who I used to brag about and be like, oh yeah, she worked for us and she put herself through law school at the same time. And like all of us young folks are like Because she wasn't doing anything for you guys clearly like law school is not something you just like to on the way to work But that is interesting to me that he
Starting point is 00:19:00 Genuinely sees himself is like the slayer of neoliberalism. Like, do you think he, I don't know, like thinks about any of the things he did in previous decades, like the bankruptcy bill or anything? I don't know. Like, I've never, I've had like one real interaction with him where I was like, can I help you with that, sir? And he was like, no, I'm good.
Starting point is 00:19:23 And like, he made his own coffee. Like, I didn't, I've never really had a conversation with him. That's how much I was gruffling. I was like, sir, I can get that. Curric, for you. I can get that. Um, yeah, not my five-year-old man there. Every, every, every, every, every, every, every, every,
Starting point is 00:19:38 I'm like, he's so normal. He made his own coffee. What a guy. So I can't say what he thinks about those things. I think he's probably capable of having a conversation about it. I just don't think anyone around him challenges him on things like that. Unfortunately, what I will say, this is just my personal opinion. I don't think he lies.
Starting point is 00:20:02 I don't think he's making up these things on purpose when he's like, oh yeah, I was there at Ground Zero like the day that happened, I was there like 10 minutes after, I don't think he does that on purpose, I think he's just like superhuman, empathetic, I call it wishbone syndrome where he reads a story and then he becomes the character in the story He and he can't parse out what what was his memory and what was the story he read kind of thing. Yeah What's going on? I cleaned up Chicago with a Jackman Elliottness. I Mean, I feel like he hasn't ever read anything about like the transatlantic slave trade because I feel like if he did, he would be convinced
Starting point is 00:20:51 he was a slave. So what was like, I'm a green almost nod for him. We, we, we just just solved his biggest problem. We just have to get him a book by George Bosch. And he'll be like, I was there when they founded PFLP. I was just going to say get him the Bosch books by Michael Connolly. I know you mentioned the Biden Institute. I was wondering, the Biden presidential. I was just wondering like,
Starting point is 00:21:25 the Biden presidential libraries, I mean, that's gotta be in Delaware, right? I mean, they already have a like a ground set for that. Or I'm just wondering what the Biden presidential library is gonna feature. DreamHorters for one. DreamHorters for one. And then all of the Lee Child Jack,
Starting point is 00:21:41 reach your novels and let's throw on the Bosch series as well. I thought the dream hoarder, I thought the dream hoarders, when you first brought it up, I thought it was like a YA book. I thought he was like making everyone read like a Hunger Games title. And it's like, that's a strange choice. That would be, I probably would still work there
Starting point is 00:22:01 if he hit on that. Yeah, I mean, there was definitely talk about the presidential library before he was even elected, which I thought was a little uncouth. But it'll probably be here in Delaware, if there's space anywhere, as far as what would be featured. Some of our, whatever our guests would come and do lectures, they would bring books with them if they had written a book, the education of an idealist by Samantha Power.
Starting point is 00:22:27 I was reading it. I was reading it. I was reading it. A library from hell. They only feature Samantha Power books. I was reading it, like prepping for one of the events, and then I was listening to you guys talk about how terrible she was, and I was like, oh my god. How come every person we bring here is like on the chapo list of worst people ever.
Starting point is 00:23:02 You know, I want to get back to the Del the Delaware and the LLC and like banking laws and just what the special sauce that makes Delaware cook and really is the reason it's a state and not just part of New Jersey. But like, so in terms of like, what makes, I mean, we talked about this before, but like it's a refresher course. I'm like, what makes Delaware like the destination state to charter a corporation in America? Yeah. So the cord of chanceery, which is this like weird. There it is again, folks, the court of chanceery.
Starting point is 00:23:32 I don't know how much your listeners know about it. I'm no expert. I mean, it's a court that dates back to the colonial period. Yes. It predates America as a legal body. Yeah. So when we say Delaware is the first date,
Starting point is 00:23:46 we really mean it, guys. But yeah, so it's this special court. It actually had a role in the desegregation of schools and stuff. It's this weird setup. And the real thing that brings people here is the fact that it's been around so long there's a lot of precedent on how cases are going to be
Starting point is 00:24:06 whatever the word is, the judicial word, but they know what they're getting into, basically. And so a lot of corporations will incorporate here so that if there's an issue and there, of course, will be some legal issue, it'll be tried here in the Delaware quarter chanceary, which is kind of this known entity. But what I kind of was introduced to more recently as a legislator is the role of the corporate law council, which is this, you know, I don't want to say creepy, but I kind of already said it. So creepy in the way of putting anti-democratic institution where you have a bunch of lawyers who are corporate lawyers that are they elect a chair or whatever and a vice chair and they are the ones who
Starting point is 00:24:56 amend the Delaware corporate law every year. So every year there's a super thick bill that most of us, if we even read it, couldn't understand it. And they basically hand us the bill and then we just are supposed to sign off on it and vote for it and make whatever changes they deemed should be made without any question. And this year there was a change in there to basically dilute ownership of stockholders in response to the whole game stop thing, which of course they never mentioned.
Starting point is 00:25:28 And they were like, oh no, it has nothing to do with that. But like that was one of the changes. And so I worked with Chance Ceredaily. Chance is like this local journalist that covers a quarter chanceery to draft an amendment to their amendments. They basically were saying, right now, if there's an issue with the company and they need to issue new shares, it's really hard to get a quorum and get people on boards of vote. So we shouldn't have to do that. We should be able to just make the changes.
Starting point is 00:26:01 Another anti-democratic principle. And so we work together on that. And in the process of trying to bring that amendment forward, I kind of was slapped in the face with just how strong a grip they have on the legislature in Delaware. I think I got like eight people to vote for it. After like a heated back and forth in caucus, a heated back and forth on the floor.
Starting point is 00:26:24 And like the Republican Party, they just all voted for, you know, not my amendment, just vote for whatever the corporation law council wants us to do. No questions asked. Um, the one win, the little bit of, a little bit of positivity here is that because of that conversation, they agreed to give us the bill in advance of just like the last week of session. So now we can actually look at over and ask questions. And so this week they sent us an agenda for the information session regarding Delaware business entities.
Starting point is 00:26:56 And I just wanted to share with you guys some of the agenda items because I think it speaks really well to the issue. They're like in response to multiple legislators asking for more input, we're having this meeting. Here are some of the agenda items. Importance of business entities to Delaware. Business entity law is vital to the Delaware economy. That's a sub-bullet for some reason. Historical perspective, how did we get here? And the role of the bar and the council
Starting point is 00:27:22 related to proposed legislation, history of the council, and its role with Delaware entity law, where I'm assuming they're going to bring us all in and tell us, you know, our role is to tell you what to do when your role is to vote yes. Sounds about right. And like, I guess another feature of the Court of Cancer is because it's like ancient status, there are no juries. This is only a panel of judges. So it's a very kind of streamlined, you just apparatus.
Starting point is 00:27:49 That's fair to add. Yeah, I kind of dwell on the terrible parts about it, but that is another draw is, they work, like they might even work through the weekend. They give you really quick turnarounds with decisions. So that is another draw. That's sorry, I was biased. So return to the EU Commission and the meeting that you sat in on as it relates to the
Starting point is 00:28:10 Panama papers. Why were they so concerned about Delaware banking law as it relates to something like tax shelters and crooked corporate legal fraud essentially? Yeah, so that was specific to the LLCs because when you can set up an LLC in Delaware within a couple hours, if you have enough money, and it's not very expensive, it's a couple hundred dollars, you don't have to put your name on it, you can have a registered agent put their name on it. And so a lot of the LLCs that are incorporated here, we have no idea who owns them.
Starting point is 00:28:43 And we only find out that there's some kind of nefarious stuff at play when it gets investigated somehow, and they didn't cover their tracks all the way. And at that time, they had found that there were drug traffickers, human traffickers that were using LLCs in Delaware to launder their money, basically. And actually, similar cases came to national news through Trump. I think the LLC that was used to pay Stormy Daniels off was an LLC in Delaware.
Starting point is 00:29:10 What was the name of the LLC? You know, wild card productions. Yeah, so that's a big part of it. It's just they wanted, they wanted and other folks, you know, US Congress people over past decades have asked, hey, when somebody says I'm an LLC, can you actually make them say who would it who belongs to and like keep that information on track? And there was a lot of pushback to that from people like Joe Biden who said no, no, no, because if we start asking questions, they're going to go somewhere else. And we could never have, you know, grandma Gertrude pay taxes to fund the government. That would be that
Starting point is 00:29:56 would be mean. I mean, I guess like a question is like, you know, like as a democratic politician, you know, like an elected representative, is it harder to get the Democratic Party to be critical of Israel or to be critical of LLCs and corporate charters? That is a great question. I've been trying to get some of my colleagues to sign onto a letter and I think after it's been maybe three weeks of trying to do this and I'm up to eat. So that's really close to as many people as I got to vote for the bill.
Starting point is 00:30:28 I will say though, I only had like a couple hours of caucus conversations to get Democrats on board with me. So if I had had three weeks, maybe I would have gotten more folks to vote against the corporate law council. I mean, but I mean, I guess like in a certain sense, I guess like the first one is a little bit easier because everybody like sees it and understands it, whereas the court of chanceery is like, this is lower. You know, like it's a, this is banking law and tax law is like just inscrutable to any, any regular person.
Starting point is 00:31:01 So it's like, I guess harder. I mean, like even if the Democrats are equally disinclined to move in the right direction on it, at least like people understand, I think Israel, Palestine, in a way that they don't like, you know, yeah, corporate, corporate finance. Yeah, honestly, that's what makes it all the more depressing, I think. I didn't expect many votes earlier this year because it was so jargonny like I spent hours with chance trying to figure out Like how do I even say this properly let alone how do I communicate it to my colleagues? But you know, it's really depressing seeing folks that I work with who you know say that they care about social justice or they care about Black Lives Matter or whatever you know issue be like, yeah, well, actually,
Starting point is 00:31:47 hummus did, and it's like, what? It's really, really bizarre. And I've been trying to be very polite and not publicly bash Delaware's boy or president, but after reaching out to folks in Biden land who I thought I had a good relationship with about the situation in Palestine and getting no response at all, I was like, yeah, no, I'm going public, baby. I'm going public.
Starting point is 00:32:21 Yeah. What is your sense as someone who like, you know, is a member of the Democratic Party, you know, you have a lot of experience with these people. Like, obviously they know that like the overwhelming majority of people want to cease fire. There's a clear majority of people who are against sending more military to Israel. Is there dismissal of it? Is it like, oh, well, like this is mostly young voters who gives this shit? Or do they see this as like an actual problem? Now that it's sort of tanked by it and very badly in the polls. I haven't heard any change since the polls have come out
Starting point is 00:33:09 But I think most people that I work with are banking on the fact that they think their constituents don't pay attention to this kind of stuff And then also we're state legislators So they're like that's not even my purview So I don't need to make a statement on it Which I think is really disappointing because I think it says a lot to someone in power when people who are also elected officials represent their constituents and raise their voices, which is why I've been so local about it because I represent, you know, 25,000 people or so here in this district, but I also am the only Muslim in our General Assembly.
Starting point is 00:33:45 So I kind of de facto represent all the Muslims in the state, and they're very upset and they're very frustrated, and they don't want to vote for Biden. I don't want to vote for Biden. So I mean, I think the very least we could do is tell them what our terms are, kind of, right? And like, hope that they change, but they're not. I've had so many folks not even respond to me. People that are mad because I tag them on post and Instagram.
Starting point is 00:34:10 Yeah, I'm tagging you. Yeah, I'm tagging you because like this year, we elected our first female speaker. We have an all female leadership ticket or team on the Democratic side in the house. And this all female leadership team hasn has instead anything about the thousands of women and children that have been murdered with our our money so yeah i'm tagging you hashag grow boss
Starting point is 00:34:32 that yeah well that's what something i wanted to ask you about is like i mean talk about like some of the uh... like that you know that the angry comments you get but i mean this is something i've been noticed from a lot of young, politically-minded Muslim Americans is that like prior to this massacre in Gaza, it was very, like it was a much touted fact of democratic politics to have like, for instance, someone like you
Starting point is 00:34:58 representing the party. But when this is now a sort of become a liability for them because I mean, like, what I'm seeing is that they, like five years ago, maybe they would have like couched it in like, you know, like we should respect your voices and spaces kind of terms, but now I really think that they have abandoned that and they're just going full out with like the racism. Like for like a Muslim, like, you know,
Starting point is 00:35:21 of being anti-Israel or anti-American. Like, I mean, it's just like they're ready to really just shore off like any like, I respect, I respect non-white, but especially Muslim voice in the Democratic coalition. Definitely. Yeah. And I think what's like, it's clear what they're doing when they do it to Jewish people. I'm just like, like, really? The Jewish girl who spoke with the rally is anti-Semitic. Really? Like maybe like work on that, maybe work on that argument. But yeah, I'm getting that a lot.
Starting point is 00:35:53 And what's particularly frustrating for me is like, some of the folks who were like, stand with Israel, I know are anti-Semitic. Like they've said, like, you know, that is a feature of hardcore Israel support in America, if you are not Jewish, is rabbit anti-Semitism. This person is not even, this person, I'm talking about the speaker, by the way,
Starting point is 00:36:17 I'm just gonna say it, the speaker of the house, I'm sitting with her, she starts going into this, all Jews are cult kind of thing, and I was just like, she starts going into this all-juu's or cult kind of thing and I was just like, whoa! What? Yeah. And like, I don't even know. She maybe didn't even know what Palestine was.
Starting point is 00:36:34 She probably thought it was the same as Pakistan before all this happened. How did she, like, a cult? Like, how? Did she? So, we're in the middle of our governor, our group in our tutorial race and I won't even get into the craziness of that because that's super Delaware too.
Starting point is 00:36:52 But our current Lieutenant Governor's running and our county executive in the largest county is running. The county executive is Jewish and she's, I guess she was trying to get me to back her candidate and she's like,, you know, he's he's backed by Republicans, right and I was like what she's like, yeah, the guy who used to own happy Harry's Yeah, like well, but Jews you know Jews are a cult in Delaware. They they're all and I was like whoa whoa whoa whoa lady like oh Okay, okay, Justin. I thought this is gonna be really bad
Starting point is 00:37:24 I don't know if it was like but like Justin Delaware. I shut it down. I Oh, okay, okay, Justin, no, I thought this is gonna be real bad. But like Justin Delaware. I shut it down. I was like, honestly, I wish I had just let her go and like, surp justly record it. But yeah, I don't know. I thought that she meant like all Jews everywhere are part of the same cult, but like,
Starting point is 00:37:42 she's probably understood it. She's probably understood it. She's probably understood it, I took it to be very, I was like, oh, this is that stereotype I've heard about in like books. When people are like, Jews control the world or whatever. Check that out in dream orders, by the way. Yeah, that's, yeah, no, that like, I mean, she knows more about Delaware than I do. Maybe, maybe that's true in Delaware. Who might I say?
Starting point is 00:38:12 I mean, I will say it's probably true of all ethnic groups that are underrepresented, I'm underrepresented in Delaware that we tend to stick together when we get our candidate. We vote like I had Republicans vote for me because they were like, she's Muslim. We need more Muslims in office. Like, so, you know, sorry to tell you that, but we're all sticking together out here. Yeah. Well, I mean, the Muslim vote in America
Starting point is 00:38:37 used to be a reliably Republican voting block until 9-11 and the War on Terror. And like the, until the Republican Party became overwhelmingly associated with like anti-Muslim bigotry and the war on terror. And like the, until the Republican party became overwhelmingly associated with like anti-Muslim bigotry and the war on terror. But, and like, and the Democrats are happy to, happy to promote it that, you know, we're the party of tolerance.
Starting point is 00:38:54 But like, anytime I see any news article about how, forget, young or old, that like Arab and Muslim American voters are simply not coming back through to vote for Joe Biden. And I see like all the responses are just thinly veiled threats to deport all Muslims. Should they vote for Joe Biden?
Starting point is 00:39:13 They're like, the Trump will do what all these people secretly want to be done, which is just to like exile inconvenient to voting demographics from the American body politic. Yeah, I'm sorry to disappoint them because I'm black, so nowhere to send me, but maybe Georgia, I don't know.
Starting point is 00:39:37 I know they're just like, oh, I'm like, yeah, like my favorite comeback is just to be like, yeah, my grandpa was in World War II. So, this is my country. This is my country. Yeah. But I guess we're swimming to the state of Delaware, writ large. I mean, another thing I wanted to mention is that you talked about how your dad worked for DuPont and your house is right by DuPont Highway. Could you just give like a brief primer on the history of the Dupont family
Starting point is 00:40:07 in the state of Delaware? Because, I mean, we know the story about killing the Olympic wrestler, but that's probably the lighter side of the Dupont family and their legacy in the state of Delaware. Yeah, I mean, Duponts. I'm not a historian on them particularly,
Starting point is 00:40:24 but I mean, they did poison a lot of our water and soil and we have a lot of cancer clusters because of that. They also, I mean, Muslims marry cousins too and I know West Virginia guys do it too, but they did a lot of cousin marrying and so they had some issues from that. No know, no judgment for me, that's just a fact. Um, you know, they also built schools in like highways and stuff, but yeah, I mean, they're definitely still around and there's a couple of them that are like, like kind of like Republican,
Starting point is 00:40:58 it's like they're trying to like create the next generation of Republican leadership, so they have like little like training programs and stuff like that. But I mean I think there are a lot of really interesting Delaware characters and if you guys are open to it I would love to share a couple with you. Okay so one of our favorites is our former auditor of accounts. You may be familiar with the role of an auditor, someone who's supposed to, you know, make sure state funds are being used properly and not committing crimes with finances and stuff. Well, plot twist, she did that. Yeah, so her name's Kathy McGinnis. She was a pharmacist before running for office,
Starting point is 00:41:40 and when she won the auditor election, she would go around and talk about how she was the highest elected pharmacist in the country. She also had a terrible spelling problem and just spell things terribly all over. We're convinced she didn't really know what the role was. She just knew it was a statewide elected position, and she wanted to run for higher office. So she's elected within a few years about half of her staff became whistleblowers, which
Starting point is 00:42:15 is a really high statistic for whistleblowers. Usually, I want to take to one. She's looking for one whistleblower, not half one in two. And that'll office one whistleblower. It was like half one and two and that all of this were whistleblowers. Before all that, I called her as a candidate trying to fundraise for my campaign. In that conversation, she told me that in her trips up and down the state, she had told a little like three cars hitting deer.
Starting point is 00:42:43 Was she trying to hit deer? I think she was just driving with her lights off. I don't know. She's an the news. Her mom who was in her 80s with cyber bully people, she cyber bully to friend of mine and was like that lipstick shade is not flattering. some fun stuff. Other characters are the current mayor of the largest city, Wilmington, is named Mike Perzicchi. Yes, you heard that. There's an icky in there. He's an icky guy. And he just recently announced he's retiring. He's not going to run for another term. And so our current governor, who was our congressman, is going to run for mayor. So that's a very Delaware thing too, to just like run for anything.
Starting point is 00:43:46 Very Congress to mayor. Yeah, Congress, the governor to mayor, he'll probably run for like school board after that. So he's just happy to be in politics. It's just happy to be here. No lateral moves. Yeah, and like I just wanted to share this quote with you guys because the mayor,
Starting point is 00:44:01 when he announced he was not running for another term, he was quoted as saying, my difficulty in committing to another term that would begin 15 months from now, isn't continuing to undertake such a demanding job at the age of 78. While my health is generally good, I am for the first time in my life aware of my age. True, I can take some time away from the job, but people should understand that the job of mayor never lets you go. Meanwhile, it's our- I mean, this is the same. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:44:27 Yeah, this has got to be some kind of stab in the back for Joe Biden, right? I mean, like, saying that 78s to all to be mayor of Will Nathan? I don't think he- I think if anybody were to point it out to him, he'd be like, retract my statement. Because no one would dare disrespect. I'll just share one more character with you guys. When I was first elected, there was this guy in office who'd been in there for a while. And he, I actually found an ethics complaint against him because he sent an email to someone where he referred to women being human trafficked as the seward, not the one for women you don't like, but the one for people from Asia. What?
Starting point is 00:45:09 Yeah. What? I did not. I did not. See, we're now with him. Zero Archie Bunker, F vibes there. I mean, talk about, talk about pulling a slur out of the Disney fall. He's probably the first elected official in like 20 years to bust that one out. Yeah, well, he busted that one out
Starting point is 00:45:31 and then he paired it with the word broad. So, yeah, once again, this was in the context of human trafficking. Yeah, yeah, this was okay. This was in response to like an email about human trafficking, like measures. and he was like, are you saying that if we did x, y and z, that would take care of the sea broads. And so I, so yes, I could not even pretend to understand where his mind was and I'll give you an example as to why. When I was on staff, one day I'm sitting in the lunch room and my co-worker
Starting point is 00:46:05 comes in frantic because this representative that he worked for was in some real, real trouble, right? And so our chief of staff had to go in and figure out how to calm everything down. What happened was he went to like, he had a community event coming up and somebody donated like a bunch of chips, like a bunch of little like snack size chips. And he looked at those chips and he was like, these chips are great, but they're all plain. Why not get some variety? So he went to his local convenience store and just starts swapping out chips.
Starting point is 00:46:37 He's swapping out original for barbecue. He's swapping out original for sour cream. Wait, so with the chips originally purchased from this location or was he just he was just Swap in the same kind of you know what I will defend this you know like no harm no foul if you're if you're placing the exact same brand of chips Yeah, you might you might want to do that but the guy who was in charge of stocking those shelves was was in charge of stocking those shelves was. Yeah. And take this. Well, I mean, people, the people who want to go to that gas station, they probably want
Starting point is 00:47:07 salt vinegar or sour cream. But he's just all the ladies who are fast. It's actually all original. Original, like in our area, Turs. Like we love our Turs potato chips. And so he's like, he's swapping them out. The guy's freaking out. He's like, I don't understand what the problem is.
Starting point is 00:47:23 I took 50 chips. I gave you 50 chips. It's the same brand. And so our chief staff goes down there and he's like, dude, you can't do that. And he's like, what? We used to do it all the time on base. Did that did this go to chance record? This chance record like, do they have a precedent on like exchanging chips of equal monetary value? That I don't know, but that is the kind of case that would go there. I have a precedent unlike exchanging chips of equal monetary value. I don't know, but that is the kind of case that would go there. They're relying on the precedent established by Utsvi Virginia in 1976, where the Uts Corporation was able to impose a penalty of death on someone who stole crab chips from them.
Starting point is 00:48:03 of death on someone who stole crab chips from them. Did he be done based? Like he said, he meant like works that way in the military. I guess, I guess. I don't know, this is the same guy who would like pull a peanut butter and jelly sandwich out of his pocket and be like, you want one. So.
Starting point is 00:48:19 The rat, what like in a plastic bag, I was just like, I'm just naked, just loose. Just a loose sandwich. Oh my god. Oh, man. Oh. You're like, look, the Delaware General Assembly is a wild place. Like, the Senate, they try to act like they're the higher chamber.
Starting point is 00:48:38 The Senate just dogs, just loose dogs everywhere. And I know, I know white people, you guys love your dogs, but you have to let the dog get jump in the middle of the people's house. You mean that literally? You mean that literally? I mean that literally. It's like hotel for dogs.
Starting point is 00:48:55 Literally, like they'll bring their dogs over the place. Yeah, they'll just take dump everywhere. And like one senator used to have a dog that he would bring in named Hillary Which you can figure out why you name that? He was a Democrat This is like a whole lot Like at one point there was we had an intern who had special needs who would like help us work and stuff
Starting point is 00:49:23 And she had like a kiddie like play pen kind of fence around her desk because she was afraid of dogs. And that's just how frequently dogs would be in there. They were like, all right, we're gonna put you away so that the dog can run free. Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, you're absolutely right. There's nothing white people like more than really poorly behaved dogs. And you know, that's another thing that Joe Biden shares in common with the mainstream
Starting point is 00:49:47 of America, these dogs that bite people. Yeah, I just, I love the dog names. I don't know if you guys have talked about that, but like commander, Navy. Yeah, the Biden's love. Like when I worked at the institute, his sister, Valerie got a dog and she named the chief. And I'm just like, okay, you guys, like how many like army terms and like military ranks
Starting point is 00:50:10 are you gonna name your dogs? Like they've got, they've got champ, they've got commander, they've got chief, they've got overgrouping fear. Like how many? Well, they are German shepherds. Oh man, actually, one more, one more Delaware weirdo that I wanted your thoughts on. The failed Senate campaign of Lauren Witsky, and the fact that she is going to be running again for another, I mean, again, I guess in Delaware, it's like you just keep going until
Starting point is 00:50:38 you hit the Wilmington treasurer or something like that. But Lauren Witsky, she was like, I don't know if people remember this, but this was like a Senate campaign run exclusively to gain the attention and favor of Nick Fuentes. Wow. That's the name I haven't heard in a while. But yeah, no, she's a, she's a real but she says, a Witsky Senate campaign was endorsed by white nationalist Nick Fuentes, had who had marched in the August 2017 white national morality in Charlottesville Witsky accepted Fuentes endorsement with a responsive thank you Nick and then in 2023 said
Starting point is 00:51:14 America needs a strong leader that would make even the most infamous fascist blush. I mean those are great quotes But I wish I had the actual quote. I'm gonna paraphrase for you guys She was talking about how like women like our our whole thing as women as we should be having children great quotes, but I wish I had the actual quote. I'm going to paraphrase for you guys. She was talking about how like women, like our whole thing as women is we should be having children. And so in one of her like tweets, she was talking about how she knows it's not ideal that she doesn't have children, but she, she has to have many, many and quickly. She's just least are you? Another mom for liberty.
Starting point is 00:51:46 And in regards to women voting, you know, that was the worst thing that ever happened to America too. Look at us now. Women overwhelmingly vote on their emotions. Women used to vote, they used to not vote because their husband would make the choice for them. Now, if just our husbands and landowners were voting, we'd be in a much better place than we are now. I guess I want to touch on a bit of international news as we round out this episode. I just like, I feel like who's going to mention that that
Starting point is 00:52:16 guy in Argentina is now president, Javier Milley. And I don't know if he's, I mean, like basically, I've seen more of this guy's face over the last 48 hours on social media than just about anyone else. And the best way I could describe it is someone described him as he has the face of someone who would be cast as Van Helsing in like a 1970s hammer horror film. But like this guy is like, I don't know, self-described anarcho-capitalist to, like basically he's a based populist who's going to pop arise his nation at the request of international bankers.
Starting point is 00:52:51 But like, I don't know, I like Felix, I know you made a similar comment, but this guy seems to be like, even more mentally unstable than Bolsonaro. And I expect his administration will be marked by similar histrionics. He bolts an arrows like Xi Jinping compared to him. Like he's, I don't know, like it's going to look. I don't want to diminish.
Starting point is 00:53:12 Like it's definitely going to suck. You know, I just did an interview. A very Argentina-focused interview that's going to come out in the coming, the next two weeks from time. And like, yeah, no, this guy will definitely be horrible, but I don't, uh, he had like a severe mental breakdown when he was on TV. And I just, it's like, look, he's going to be bad. He um He says that he communicates with the spirits of his deceased dogs and he cloned. He might be doing incest. We don't know.
Starting point is 00:53:53 I mean, the first lady of Argentina is now his sister. Yeah. Well, is that confirmed? I thought he was just joked about that. Okay, no, I don't know. I mean, is he married? No. Okay, so then I guess she is the first sister. Yeah, but
Starting point is 00:54:07 You know Bolsonaro eventually Went away this guy will too, you know, they had like one hundred and thirty-three percent inflation Like they were going to experience a change of some kind, you know Like we can talk about how they got there, but you know something bad was going to happen and this is the bad thing. He might be the first like major world leader in centuries to like kill himself while in office. Oh my god. Well one can only speculate, but Medina, before we let you go, like, I don't know, we've sort of shit on Delaware this episode, but like, you know,
Starting point is 00:54:47 I give you the opportunity to like, talk up the positive aspects about Delaware, because like, it is like a forgotten state, but I was just wondering, what is like the Delaware attitude or personality? Or like, what do you associate with like, the Delaware you grew up in? I mean, I can tell you about myself.
Starting point is 00:55:06 I think I'm very Delaware. I liked the free YouTube album. I thought that was nice about the song for a good. I don't iron my bed sheets. I'm normal in that sense. I just I don't know I feel like we're very like down to earth. We like chicken and dumplings. It's like a Delaware thing. You know normal people the beaches are nice. They're not like Caribbean nice like you can't see your feet in the water but like it's a nice time. It's tax-free like you know we talked about our
Starting point is 00:55:43 like financial situation but like we don't have sales tax, so we probably should. But until then, come buy stuff here. We've got all the stores, and you can get it tax-free. Our president is from here. I probably shouldn't have added that part. That's a bad thing about Delaware. I'll share like a couple of weeks ago, we had a protest to buy it in Delaware house and we had close to
Starting point is 00:56:11 2,000 people show up. So we're not all terrible people here. I think most people in most parts of the country are like good people. And like if they if you ask them like, hey, should we bomb unrest schools and like churches they if you ask them like hey should we bomb Unre schools and like churches they'd be like no and I think you know that's I think you say the same thing about Delawareans like most of us just want To live our lives in safety and we care about our neighbors and Just don't Joe Biden is not he does not represent us so you know I'll just say that. I will, I do want to add though, this is like, this is exciting. Before all of this, I was invited to go to the White House and I went and I got a shout out because I was like the only Delawareian there. And
Starting point is 00:57:00 in the shout out, he starts to talk about how he was the only senator from Delaware because he misspoke so if you look me up like i'm listed in the the famous list of gaffes like that that's a big deal that's my claim to fame you've been to the history of biden bungles yeah i'll be in the presidential library
Starting point is 00:57:22 that under under uh... we we we you've under m w a the where would they file you. I'm not you for g. And for Muslim. And we're like yeah that Muslim girl used to work for us. The one who went on the internet and talked trash. No. Well, Medina Wilson Anton, I should say representative Medina Wilson Anton. I want to thank you so much for your time and coming on the show today.
Starting point is 00:57:56 And to wish you the best of luck, trying to talk some sense into our president and the rest of the Democratic Party leadership. Thank you. I'll try my best and shout out to Mr. Hawk. Who's Mr. Hawk? Mr. Hawk is another long time listener, friend of mine, her dad's a big fan, so I just wanted to make sure that I said hey to him. Okay. Mr. Azar, Mrs. Hawk, that's what I want to know. There is. She's not a fan. All right. All right. Yeah. I don't know why I'm shouting for her. All right. All right. Now I'm going to shout out for her.
Starting point is 00:58:26 All right. Yeah. Forget about her. Yeah, no, she's great. She's great. But Mr. Hawk. Yeah. Be careful.
Starting point is 00:58:34 I know you're probably on like the elliptical right now. You're probably really hype. Just be careful. Be safe. Well, once again, representative Medina Wilson Anton. Thank you so much for your time. Bye-bye, everybody. I'm a dream for this becoming too much We hold on

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