Chapo Trap House - 874 - The Nut feat. Kath Krueger (10/7/24)

Episode Date: October 8, 2024

It’s been one year since 10/7, so we discuss a bit of what’s changed - if anything - in perception and politics of the war in Palestine. We then look at the 2024 election, the effects of recent and impending natural disasters, and last week’s VP debate. We also discuss Kath’s recent piece in the Nation about the return of the #resistance, and Elon Musk’s funny little dance at Trump’s recent rally. Idk, we’re all starting to get that familiar icky feeling in the pits of our stomachs again about November, aren’t we, is it happening again? Read Kath’s piece in The Nation: https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/resistance-kamala-harris-online/ Buy Matt’s Book: https://chapotraphouse.store/products/no-pasaran Come to our 11/4 Election Eve show in LA with E1: https://link.dice.fm/b1eb3de54f54

All I'm gonna do is hit the drum. All I'm gonna do is hit the drum. Hey everyone, if you follow the news like us, you are hearing the news out of Iran. This weekend there were seismic readings from Armenia that were signaling that Iran has been developing something that some of us I definitely think they should have had for a very long time. I'm of course talking about the start of a new era. Iran finally has developed an even oranger manual. Fans of the show will, you know, long time fans will know, I famously advocated for this on the, on crooked media on Love It or Leave It in 2017.

And it was edited out. I remember, I remember it like it was yesterday. I was on Love It or Leave It Live. And I said to John Lovett, if I was Iran, I would be making an even oranger manual right now. And he looked at me, he didn't miss a beat. He said, I like to beat cats to death in my spare time. And I said, I really don't know.

I don't see what that has to do with anything. The manual is a wild cat. Presumably you're doing these two house cats. And he said, if they make an orange or manual, I'm gonna name it after you and shoot it in the head. And I said, well, that's not very mature. But, you know, I got it edited out. We forgot about it. But now they have the orangest manual in the world. What do you guys think?

A long time coming. It's going to be an issue because I mean, look, had the Iran deal that the Iran manual deal that Obama passed, were that still in place and not thrown out by the Trump administration, there would be international manual inspectors that would have access to this orange manual to verify its legitimacy. Are they just dying these manuals are bright orange color or have they actually created a sort of weapons grade model? That's a great point.

Yeah, they could be doing what that zoo in China was doing where they were just like dying the little doggies to look like baby pandas. Well, without an inspection regime, we'll never know their manual capability. where they were just like dying the little doggies to look like baby pandas. Well, without an inspection regime, we'll never know their manual capability. But I mean, I fear for the worst, honestly. Yeah. If we allowed inspectors in there, they would just be shoving these orange manuals. They'd be shoving the orange paint just in closets and they would be duping the inspectors. Yeah, that is the big problem with the breakdown of the Iran deal. But satellite imagery has shown that they have at least a litter of annuals that are

Garfield colored. And I've tried to paint regular cats that color. It doesn't work. You just have to breed them. I just don't know if this is really the what the region needs right now in terms of stability, because if Iran, if there is a Garfield gap between Israel and Iran, like I think Israel could perhaps be dipping into their strategic reserves of normals and then the whole region could be spiraling out of control into some

center. It should be a real bad Monday. Let's put it that way. Are there, there has to be an Israeli named Odi, right? Sort of like an Israeli sounding name. Odi Gov. Yeah. They're currently on the Columbia campus right now, putting up giant milk cartons of missing hostages.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, Garfield did the Abraham Accords before Israel did because he sent normal to wear Abu Dhabi Abu Dhabi. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. He was the first guy to do the Abraham Accords. Oh folks, I hate Mondays and Let's start. Let's start the show. It's Monday, October 7th, 2024 and boy it starts earlier every year doesn't it folks? I guess at the top of the show, we should mark this anniversary by three important announcements regarding new merchandise available in our store.

Matt Christman's book, The Go Pass Around, Matt Christman's Spanish Civil War, and of course our live show in Los Angeles the night before the election with E1. Tickets available now. Link in show description. All three of these wonderful things that you can do to help commemorate this a very solemn occasion and day but yeah new merch Matt Christman book chapeau E1 live show in LA election eve let's go oh and even even better to commemorate this solemn occasion it's the return of my favorite guest and yours Katherine Krieger

Katherine welcome back. Listen, I need everyone to know that I consented to do this and I wasn't looking at my calendar. I live and die by my calendar. I didn't know it was October 7th today. But you know, very happy to be here. Well, for the next hour, I will be reading the names of all the hostages that are still held by Hamas. And you know, we're going to be talking.

It's not going to take a full hour. Fuck yeah I was counting on that taking up this time here I don't know Katherine is a good point does anyone else feel like the hostages kind of fell off Lebanon there's no hostages there they're gonna free them Yeah, well, yeah, no, I mean, like, I don't even mean like, you know, there are none left. I'm not even accusing them of that. It's not like they have a doctrine for this type of thing. I'm just saying that the hostages had a high Q rating in America, you know, this time like nine, 10 months ago. Time was you could not go anywhere in New York without seeing a poster that was like,

you know, bring home, bring home, bring home, golf a shit run. She just wanted to dance. But you don't see that anymore. I don't. I think the hostages should sign with one scooter brawn. That's what I would. Well, you know, scooters out of the game. Well, you should come. You get back in the game. Scooter brawn did a hostage event.

They like like one of the boyfriend is still, uh, well, probably has been killed by an Israeli airstrike. Let's be honest. But like, uh, the one who is dancing at that horrible beach party, she met, she got to meet Scooter Braun, Ed Sheeran and Post Malone. I would love to ask Post Malone who he thought that was. I would love to ask Coach Malone who he thought that was. He's just slamming a bud light and smoking blasting a cig and being like, hey girl, I love what you're doing. Keep it up. We can all believe in each other. say congratulations yeah yeah i'm so sorry that that happened to you i want you to dance again he thinks they're from florida here there here there was that they were

hurt at a rave and he thought oh probably that wasn't one of my concerts well uh i guess i mean look uh the the date i feel like we have uh i think we've hit most of most of what people are thinking about today over the last couple episodes. I guess, like, I'll begin the show by noting just like on this anniversary of October the seventh, the one year anniversary of October 7th, I think it's just, you know, I think it's telling to note in the official remembrances offered by our government who the victims are here. And it's just like, you know, whether it's Kamala or Obama, it's just like they think that like the 1,200 people who died on October 7th, the 1,200 Israelis, those are like the only victims that have ever existed in the world. And like, and Felix, you're right, like the hostages have

fallen off and there's just like all these like exhortations to not forget the hostages. But like, our government and Israel doesn't really give a shit about the hostages. I mean, they fell off as soon as it became clear that Israel didn't want them back. Right? Yeah. I mean, the thing that we've lost in all this in Yeah, I mean, the thing that is lost in all this in most mainstream media commemorations, let's say, of this date is just the idea that like this was just, it was just done out of nowhere.

And I'm not even referring to like, you know, the last few decades of history, but rather, you know, the importance of the hostage taking itself. The reason that they took hostages and the reason that hostage taking has sort of been a, you know, pretty valuable tool for Hamas is because, you know, Israel has done the exact same thing and abducted thousands of people, fucking grandparents, teachers, photographers, journalists, school children, abducted them all thousands in dragnets and taken them to these unaccountable fucking military prisons that we now find it, you know, now it has been confirmed have

a systematic policy of sexual abuse. And this was their only way of getting their people back. This was the only thing that ever fucking work. Of course, to see it characterized in most Western media, you know, they just woke up one day and we're like, what's the meanest thing we can do? Something, something I think about a lot is like, you know, when there was that halfhearted ceasefire that lasted for like three days and they couldn't even get it done before Thanksgiving because you could tell like Biden's people were like, Hey, just like, let's not see this on, on Turkey day.

No one wants that. Yeah. After actually after Thanksgiving and there was a hostage exchange, there were like no journalists even like feigning the question about like, oh wait, like, why does Israel have anyone to exchange? You know, like no one has made noise about like, oh, so there are hostages to be exchanged on both sides. Like it was just like a wild failure to me. I mean, like, and then the Israeli hostages that were returned, no one wanted to hear from them either. They were, they were a quickly shuffled part of the media spotlight.

I mean, going to what Kath said, like, it's like, you know, to take Israel at their word when they were exchanging, you know, their hostages, it would be, you would be accepting that they have 12,000 to 20,000 like terror suspects, like 20,000 confirmed terrorists, who I guess range in age from six to 98. And I guess like to take the official commemorations of this seriously, one would have to not regard the probably at least 100,000

Palestinians in Gaza who have been killed since October 7, as like, you know, victims of a natural disaster, basically, if they're mentioned at all. It's just something, there's a humanitarian catastrophe happening in Gaza, and like that's all you can say about it if you mention it at all. But like, no, it's like the commemorations have to be only for the hostages and like, I don't know. And then like the large number of people who were killed on October 7th, not by the Israeli military or who weren't soldiers at the time they were being killed. And I guess like it begs a question like, because like, you know, living through a year of this now, it's hard to know

where things are going. And obviously, like the, if you want to call it the axis of resistance, like anyone fighting back against this shit, like it's, you know, it's hard to say, like, you know, how successful they've been or like how to gauge the strategically or otherwise. But the thing is what has changed in the last year, I think undoubtedly is that there hasn't been AC change in how at, like forget the world, but just at least the American public views the issue, the question of Israel-Palestine. And I think like the Palestinian cause has more, like a more global platform and more

global sympathy than it's ever had before. Whether that will make a difference in terms of the ongoing extermination of their lives, who knows? But if you're outside of it, there's no other option. There's no other option. And for Israel itself, I think it's clear that the maintenance of the Zionist project now requires more violence and more war to, I don't know, as they would say, reestablish deterrence for their state, to expand the borders of their state, whatever they're doing, the maintenance of this project

is now requires a like six front war against like five different countries. And I don't think that's going to stop. To say nothing of requires like this, this mental gymnastics as simply embarrassing on an international stage, you know, like anyone still defending or, you know, like people love to say like ceasefire now but then release the hostages or, you know, there are all of these like kind of backdoor ways to like, you know, like don't forget November 7th actually but, you know, or the one I've seen today is like, like I think from like if not now, like, you know, turn over the hostages and then there needs to be like a diplomatic path to ending the

occupation. And it's like, you know, these things are just increasingly untenable, like in the eyes of the world. And I think that's, you know, a positive thing. But again, like, yeah, remains to be seen if any of it will matter. I mean, I think you have to look at it as a positive thing, just in terms of like the amount of money, time and effort spent just in this country alone in trying to corral the narrative. Like just how many like new regulations and laws have to be passed to suppress freedom of speech and the right to protest and peacefully assemble on college campuses and elsewhere.

The you know, McCarthyite purge of people who are you know, pro-Palestine from many different professions. All of this requires a great deal of time, money, and effort. And you know, on the surface it's certainly been successful. I mean, they have certainly cracked down on freedom of speech and protests in this country. They have made it harder and harder to remain employed and vocally sympathetic to the Palestinian people or their history. But at the same time, this requires a huge effort and like a huge expenditure of resources to just keep the wheels on this fucking charade.

And I think you're seeing in Israel itself and in the region, it's not just, you know, efforts to corral speech. It's literally like one war after another that they're going to have to start fighting. And now it seems to be like Iran is what they're really after. They're going to have to start a war with Iran to keep this thing going. And the question is, when they do that, like how much harder is it going to get for our government to keep everyone in line or to keep, like I said, just to keep the engine sputtering along on the project of Zionism?

And that remains a very open question. And you know, we have touched on this a bit war with Iran or no like certain aspects of like the way that Israel has operated since the second Antiphada there were certain like guarantees of you know by the Israeli government to the people of Israel the the key among them being like hey like we're going to do a lot of like unsavory shit, but the payoff to that, the payoff is that like, you're not going to have to think about it.

You're not going to have to see it. It was, you know, it is kind of their version of the grand Biden bargain of 2020. And in the last 20 or so odd years, it has mostly worked out for them. It has been out of sight, out of mind. They have been able to sell their startups and go to work and just completely put this out of mind. Now, not just with what happened on October 7th, but with Hezbollah and I think more vitally Yemen being able to pierce the defenses of their anti-ballistic missile defenses and the Iron Dome, it sort of chips away at that guarantee. If you can no longer guarantee that people can completely ignore this, then you are going to start to see brain drain.

You are going, and even the people that stay, the economy is going to pay an immense price. It already has. And American supporters know at a certain point, you can't really keep this thing going unless you're willing to spend like 200, 300, $400 billion a fucking year, which like maybe we will. I don't know, but it just, everything that we know tells us that going on its current course, this is completely fucking unsustainable. What it looks like when that unravels, I don't know. It could be horrible because as we know,

Israel probably has nuclear weapons and they're not exactly a rational actor, but the status quo is dead. And more than anything, at least as far as this country, the status quo of just not thinking about Palestine or Israel, not seeing it, not caring about it, that's certainly been shattered entirely. And you know, we haven't talked about this in the last couple of weeks because of, you know, the World War Three potentially starting. But I mean, like this all

comes into a sharper focus, certainly one month out from an election where we've seen Georgia, the Carolinas, and Tennessee be ravaged by an apocalyptic level of flooding and then like and dealing with an issue of a budget shortfall in the FEMA hurricane season budget and I say and like at the same time when people are seeing headlines about the billions of dollars that we're spending on Israel and Ukraine for their safety and security. And as we're recording this right now, we've got another mega hurricane crawling up the Gulf Coast. Looks like it's going to make contact with Tampa right now.

So we've got these like roiling natural disasters in which hundreds of people have died in this country, hundreds. And the damages are in the billions, billions and hundreds of billions of dollars of property damage has been done already. And God only knows what the reconstruction costs are going to be. But the issue is that it's easy to not see, think or care about Israel or Palestine when it's all an abstraction. But when there's an actual war going on, and then also, like I said, in the context of

an election season where people feel, and you can argue that they feel this wrongly. But what you can't argue is that like it's unfair for them to feel it at a time when they see their community underwater literally. And then like a news headline about how Congress just OK, like did you see the Lindsey Graham clip where he was talking about? Yeah, he was like we need to keep supporting our friends in Israel, Israel. There are people that want to kill them and we need to make sure they get what they want. There could be no better messenger. You know, I've been going all over South Carolina, like most people hadn't slept much, but look what's going on in Israel. Our friends in Israel are surrounded by people that want to kill them, destroy them, a second Holocaust in the making. And Biden says, be proportional. What is

the proportional response to people want to kill you and your family? They're running out of ammunition in Israel. We have to help our friends to keep the war over there from coming here. How are people supposed to take it when the first question in the vice presidential debate was, will you support a preemptive strike on Iran? What are people supposed to fucking think? You know, even again, even if it isn't like, you know, oh, it's different funding sources

or fucking whatever. Doesn't matter. Yeah, the fact is, you know, the priorities are clear. A significantly more amount of time and energy is being put towards fucking Israel by the White House than North Carolina. They worked overtime on the way. It's the only thing Congress ever stays in session for anymore is to send more money to fucking Israel.

And then it's just a rubber stamp. Yeah. No, even if you're not literally taking, you know, one dollar out of the fucking North Carolina bucket and putting it in the Israel bucket, you know, time is a zero-sum game. Your focus, your energy is a zero-sum game, and it's very clear what they're more concerned with. Well, and again, we hear from awful people about the fucking deficit all the time. Even if these are two different funding buckets, shouldn't it all qualify as,

oh, you care about the deficit, so this is certainly putting us more in the hole. There's no money to even put up, extend Medicaid to five kids, but there's plenty of money for arms for Israel again and again and again. And again, like there's I'm sure there's a billion qualifications and counter arguments about how, oh, like, you know, it's really it's really not just a simple matter of they spent all the money on Israel and Ukraine, because what the money is really you can I'm sure it's just a drop in the bucket compared to the entire US budget. But at the end of the day, what you're what you're seeing in front of your eyes

if you live in the Southeast right now, or Florida very soon, is the wholesale leveling of your communities by climate-fueled natural disasters. And whether that aid is getting through, or the governors of these states say, hey, the federal government gave us everything we asked for. At the end of the day, there's still the headlines,

Mayorkas warns FEMA doesn't have enough funding to last through hurricane season. And like whether the two things are connected or not, you can't play. You can't play dumb and like think it's entirely inappropriate that people's anger would be misplaced or correctly placed in this example. Because like that clip with Lindsey Graham, where he is just like, well, like most people in the Carolinas, I haven't gotten much sleep, but I mostly cared about Israel. There are people out there trying to kill Israel and we need they don't even have a bombs and we got to support our friends in Israel. It's just

like it's very clear that Israel is not only the 51st state. It's the only state. Yeah, it certainly telegraphs priorities to people who are without electricity or you know, who know people who've died. So I really don't care about any like Podjohn's explanation that you could provide about how these are different streams. One is able to be cut basically and the other is not. But it just telegraphs something very important about who we as America view as, yeah, basically

the most important non-voting Americans. I do think that, you know, in some senses, you know, their Israel policy is their climate change policy. And that is in the sense that, like, you know, it's pretty easy to figure out Israel's like primary and secondary benefits to America, both as extensions of American foreign policy and as a vector of military kinsianism, but a tertiary aspect to what we get out of Israel. I think this has been especially true since probably Clinton, at least in you know, in the last 20 years, more so, Israel

is a very useful metric for us to determine how far someone can go. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever, whatever they do, the second that we pull their leash, that's always the farthest someone can go. And the fact that we haven't pulled their leash yet signals that we live in a much more degenerated, brutal and institutionally decayed time, of course. But it is useful for Western governments and specifically America to see what is the worst

thing someone theoretically could get away with. Boy, are we getting the answer. Yeah. When climate refugees are already coming, when they come in the millions, tens of millions, when we may have to kill people over fresh water, it is useful for the state to know what they will be permitted to do. And, you know, we're seeing we're seeing this proving ground right now in Lebanon, because, like, you know, if you're following this, you're seeing reports about bombings of Lebanon's health care infrastructure.

And I remember a year ago, first, it was like, oh, no, it was their own rockets that misfired and blew up that hospital and killed 300 people. And then it was like, well, yes, we are bombing hospitals, but they're Hamas command and control centers. And then like that excuse just gets more and more watered down. And now when they're going to war on Lebanon, they're just hitting hospitals and ambulances. And they're not even like, there are no hostages there.

They're not even, there's not even a pretense that these are like Hezbollah strongholds or, you know, like that, oh, Hezbollah has like a, they have a special room in the middle of that ambulance that they're calling in terror strikes on. There's not even the pretense of that anymore. Why? Because like, they got away with it, and they're continuing to get away with it. And now blowing up hospitals is just what you do in a war. And like, you know, whether whether it's talking about this, or like, you know, I bring up the flooding because the situation

could not play more into the hands of Donald Trump and his presidential campaign. I'd like to turn it now to talk about, we're a month out from this election, and like I said, is happening in the backdrop of what could turn into some kind of World War Three style conflagration, which is being, the skids are being greased by Kamala Harris and Joe Biden, but also the devastation of natural disasters in this country that's happening at a time when many Americans feel left behind or they feel like their government or the people in charge right now simply don't care if they live or die. And I think that plays into the Trump campaign.

And like I just I'm not making predictions. I'm not I'm not I'm not Nate Silver here. I'm not looking at the polling. But I will just say all of this gives me against it. All of this gives me a feeling that it is very likely that Trump wins this election, or at least just like more likely than not. And like, look, no matter what happens, you know, people can call me an idiot or whatever. I'm just saying like it's just a feeling I have right now. And I think it's largely due to how unbelievably terrible the Harris Walls campaign has been since the convention.

If Harris wins, it'll be through no fault of her own. You know, like now they're hiding her from interviews like they did with Joe Biden. You know, unlike this, you know, to go back, especially unlike the you're doing a genocide issue. She could have done the very least to create any daylight between her and Joe Biden's policy. And she's flatly refused to. Well, I think her saying we can't look away was her attempting to do that. Her imagination does not run that deep. Just for the election, though, I would feel more confident saying, being where Will is at, if this were Donald Trump's first or even second time running for president.

But I just I don't know. I guess you could say this about the last three elections really at this point. But this is another fucking American election where it seems like both both candidates are doing their best to throw Trump as a known quantity, I don't think it exploits those things as easily as he once could. I think that like the campaign's like path to victory is incredibly like low percentage and kind of weak. And I there are just these little signifiers that like, maybe their finances aren't as good as we thought. I think the fact that he had to bring Elon on stage and like grimace through that Moronic jumping thing he did. After Elon, Elon, do you remember when Elon said,

I'm gonna give them, I'm gonna give their PACS $45 million a month and then a day later was like, I don't have that. Like every time anyone has ever done that to Trump, he lashes out at them. He hates people who read egg on him. But I think that like, they started out such a fundraising hole because they had to spend so much money on like legal fees and other shit when that was a more going concern that they're desperately trying to shore up the money machine. And it's just, yeah, I don't, it's really hard to say at this point

because both campaigns are doing the exact thing. I would tell them if I want it, if they ask me, how do we lose this thing? But it's just the worst thing for Donald Trump is being a known quantity. And yeah, the third fucking Three elections in a row. People don't get less sick of the guy. I don't know. I don't know. That's true.

Look, I say this, this is just a feeling like I don't see this in any great confidence. Like whoever wins, we lose. But I'm just saying, okay, like actually, like a way to do this is I'll just go on the list of things that both campaigns are doing right now to throw the election to the other side. And at the top of them for Kamala right now, in addition to supporting Israel, is this country over party thing that they launched this past week to roll out the endorsement of the of the Cheney family.

She's the of Liz, Liz and Dick Cheney. And like I just have to say here, like this is this is all part of like a country over party that even someone like Dick Cheney is gonna support Harris because Trump is so uniquely evil I have said this on this show, but I will say it again I will say it to anyone who will listen There is not a single thing Donald Trump did in power as president of the United States That comes even one one millionth too close to being as evil as what Dick Cheney did in his time in office. And what's more, it's just like... It's such a weird, unforced error. Like, who is this for?

Like, you're not... Anyone who, like, takes Dick Cheney seriously, like, you know, I don't know, they probably already folded into being Trump supporters. Like, the only, like, never Trump people left are, like, you know, three guys who are now on MSNBC and it certainly. Cheney loser primary by like 30 points or something. Yes. Yeah. And Kamala was having like, you know, was fucking around with Liz Cheney to being like, thank your dad.

I'm really glad. Is is are there like everyone who would be moved by the endorsement of a Cheney already voted for Biden in 2020 and then immediately died from COVID. The remaining voters that are moved by that all live on the Upper East Side, Silver Springs, Maryland, or under the Denver Airport. Is there anyone in Fentanyl County, Pennsylvania, who's

like, well, I was going to vote for Trump, but I was a founding member of the Project for New American Century. I love urban crystal. I was going to. Or is is. Yeah, I could not agree more. Who defies reason? You know, I was going to vote for Trump because I thought Kamala lacked experience, but Dick

Cheney, you know, he has experience getting big things done, like 9-11. And look how that turned out. So like, you know, now that he's supporting the Harris campaign. It's really also just underlining American support for war criminals, you know, like we're backing Israel. So why not just bring Dick Cheney, war criminal, into the fold once again? I think the Dick and Liz Cheney endorsement of Harris Wallows, I think this excites democratic partisans, not like some fabled

mythical swing voter that's out there who's just like looking for permission to vote for a Democrat for the first time in their life. I just think it's like, what they've gotten is that they've moved the Democratic Party to the right. And I think this excites Democratic voters because they love to pat themselves on the back. Like with this with this with this sort of construction in their head where they're like, well, if somebody is repellent and evil as Dick Cheney could support Harris-Wallace, then you know, the Trump supporters really have nowhere to go. They have no excuse not to vote for the Democrats.

I mean, that is the thing. It actually doesn't really excite the Democratic base. The Harris campaign has moved to the right of where the Democratic base is. I meant Democratic partisans in the media. That's what's the base. This is all immaterial to me as someone who isn't voting, but as someone who is interested in the horse race aspect of it and has always been interested in these things. It has been very clear to me that the Kamala campaign after that initial burst of momentum, it became very clear that this was run by the same people who were sticking Joe in a basement and making him give thumbs up during

and making him give thumbs up during, uh, during live streams in 2020. If people remember that, uh, it is a very similar strategy. All the stuff that work, all the, all the things that gave them momentum and stymied Republican attacks, they were told to stop. Kim waltz, the entire reason they picked him was because he was good on TV in a way that Shapiro wasn't, uh, what did did they do but took them off of TV and told them to stop doing the things that resonated with voters? Again, this has no bearing on whether I vote or not, and probably for most of you. But just seeing the kind of like, they're busting out like the Gen Zers who run fake left-wing astroturf orgs called like

Voting Tomorrow and Renewable America to yell at people already. No one is endangering this campaign more than the people who are running it. Well, unlike what's so uniquely demoralizing to me as well is like I think you're totally right. The only person, the only people who are energized by a Dick and Liz Shaney endorsement are like, you know, died in the world, democratic voters who are totally baked in. And like, I think what we're really seeing is like this, this accounting by the Harris campaign about like, you know,

we know that a bunch of young people in particular are going to stay home, maybe even more than usual stay home, but clearly they've like done the accounting where like they don't think it's going to matter. So like, you know, whatever downside there is about, you know, like all you had to do is not endorse or not take Shani's endorsement.

And maybe, you know, a few more young people who otherwise wouldn't vote for you because of genocide are staying home, you know, now more than ever, you know, like they're bargaining that it's not going to matter. And I think it's, my prediction is it's going to be very close and good best of luck to them that that gambit pays off. I have a thing on this as well. I don't know if we were going to get to the VP debate.

Yeah, I was going to get to the VP debates. Yeah, I was going to get to the VP debates. Well, I have something that kind of links this together because it's like, if you watch like the especially the first 20 minutes of that VP debate on the issues of, as we mentioned, Israel, immigration, climate change, preparedness, you really got the sense that these were two people competing on who was going to most competently and compassionately execute the Trumpist vision for America. Like every term of every debate is on Trump's terms at this point. You know,

especially like notably the immigration thing where you've got Tim Walz out there being like, you know, we were gonna build the wall, but Trump stopped us. Like that is the terms of these things. And then like two days later, you have Kamala doing this country over party thing. And I saw some people like defending this being like, look, Liz Cheney didn't need to get any, didn't ask for any concessions from Kamala. You know, they're not asking them to change anything. This is just showing how big the not Trump, uh, tent is for this party.

Yes, that's the thing. That's exactly what I was going to say by just going fully in this, like style of orange man bad is the entirety of the politics. The Democrats have been able to fully remake the party into something that is palatable for the Cheney's. And just my sense from these two things is that whether or not he wins the election, like Donald Trump won everything that he needs. Everything is on his terms now. Like the stupidest, ugliest man in America has successfully defeated both of our

storied political parties and remade them in his image. It's astounding. It's like another thing on the the V.P. debate. I did not watch live because like I, you know, I've endured a lot for this show, but the V.P. debate this year, I just I couldn't I've endured a lot for this show but the VP debate this year I just I couldn't I didn't have it in me but like in in the you know the the the roundups of it in the clips that I saw of it most people regarded that Tim Walls shouts a bet I mean like he got dog walked by JD Vance

which is pretty pathetic but like it was more so like it wasn't so much that like that he like JD got the best of him as a debater. I mean, like in a little ways he did, but it was more that like, Walls was like, trying to find every way possible to agree with JD Vance. And I thought the really telling moment that happened is that like, when they had a disagreement, it was Walls, instead of Walls being like, well, you know, actually, like, we're trying to secure the border to it was over. He was basically deferring to the wisdom of economists over JD Vance and like the will of the people broadly. And like, leaving this populist avenue of attack open by being like, well, actually, the thing I disagree with him on is the thing that every economist agrees with me

on. And you know, even if he was right and talking about like tariffs or whatever, I just like associating the Democratic Party with like we're the party of the elite economists consensus. What economists say we do. I well I did watch it live. You know, just a, a horrible waste of my life. Playing war thunder did not is the pain. But so I don't think that Waltz exactly performed horribly. I think that he failed to – this is partially his fault, partially the fault of the campaign. He did not demonstrate why he was picked.

He was replacement level. The way he failed was not so much of getting clobbered by J.D. Vance, because Vance was also incredibly conciliatory. Part of Vance's strategy was to contrast with Trump. Of course, Trump in the last debate, everyone thought, looked crazy and stupid and everything. And Vance was able to present a more conciliatory and normal outlook on the same policies and, more importantly, a friendlier demeanor, which he, I think, largely succeeded at. But Vance is probably, up until this point, was the weakest part of Trump's campaign. I think everyone kind of agreed on that.

Most Trump voters who were at least able to look at things a bit objectively were able to acknowledge that. By taking this very weird track and going out there and also presenting the more amicable version of Trump's ideology as Waltz did, in the minds of the voters, they start going, well, what's so weird about this JD guy? As we've seen, JD Vance, who was like horribly underwater, he has climbed a lot and the place still underwater, but he's much more popular than he was before the debate. Waltz also more popular, but not really worth it when you previously had like

a fucking, you know, this was this was an anchor around the neck of the Trump campaign. And now it isn't. And you know, you had reports coming out that this is a this is a conscious decision by the Harris campaign to like tone down the weird attacks on JD Vance because they thought it was too negative and not looking towards the future. Idiot. Idiot.

So then you get this debate where they just like congratulate each other on how much they agree on everything. And the net result of that is that JD Vance seems more normal. And Tim Harris, I mean, Tim Wall, Tim Harris, Tim Walls, it just draws down to his level. Goodbye Doug. Doug is testing poorly. We have to get rid of him. What's next for the Harris campaign?

Wedding after wedding after wedding. By allowing JD Vance to do his debate kid thing, in a weird way, it did make him seem more normal. The whole framing of the debate was also really right wing, more than usual. Framing the crisis at the southern border and citing the Wharton School and all this stuff about how would you pay down the deficit. Like a bad framing that if the questions weren't provided ahead of time, Walls certainly did nothing to challenge.

Because again, why would he? The Harris-Walls campaign basically agrees with the framing of these questions. It made me miss my favorite debate moderator and my favorite news anchor, David Muir. David Muir, the news guy from movies. He looks great. He looks like he would, he would tell you that Godzilla is coming to town. I really love him. I think it kind of looks like the sleepy time T bear. No, he's actually very handsome. I, uh, I'm not saying the sleepy time T bear is not handsome. I think he's quite dapper.

You wouldn't kick him out of bed for eating crackers. That's right. Uh, I did like how, yeah, JD's JD, the subtext of like JD's, uh, strategy and really like, kind of outright saying this at points was like hey look I actually I actually like you like it's Kamala I don't like what if we just hung out and no we can't and we and we just we just see what happens yeah see what happens let's get rid of our bosses go on yeah go on a camping trip together. It's going to boys weekend. Just the two of us.

Boys only. Boys only. No divas. Normal dudes only. No divas. No Trump. No Harris. Which means no Trump.

Yeah. Oh my God. Can you imagine Trump camping? Oh my God. He's in the... What's that fucking movie? Deliverance? What's the one where they get the bad camping trip?

Yes, Deliverance is indeed the bad camping trip movie. Um, yeah. Never actually seen it, but I am aware that it's a bad camping movie. You've been an ass. Come on, squeal! Squeal! Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee I mean, I guess like the last thing I'll say about whether it's Tim Harris or the country the country over party bit is I just think about this thing that like it's all sold as this idea of like broadening the coalition is just like getting the getting the you know, like the idea is it's a close election you want as many votes as possible. But I mean, like it's very conspicuous, like what well they're seeking to draw those supposedly

votes that are up for grabs from because like, there's, you know, instead of trying to activate people who are, you know, begging for a reason to vote for the Democrat or just not going to vote, they're like, they are very clearly like trying to court erstwhile Trump voters or Republicans that feel embarrassed about voting for Trump. And this idea is like, well, look, you got to do everything just to achieve power, right? I mean, we want to exercise power, not critique it, right? And I just think like the same dynamic is at here is a play with like, you know, with AOC, when people who defend her by being like, look, she has to be inside the room where

decisions are made. And that's the same one I read from Samantha Power this week about why she's continuing to support a genocide despite having advertising her whole career as being opposed to it. It's just it's simply better to be in the room where the decisions are being made than outside of it. And to be inside the room, yeah, you got to like make, you know, make uncomfortable alliances or maybe look the other way on certain things that are displeasing. It might appear that you're getting nothing that you theoretically want, but that's the power of being in the room.

This idea about being in the room is all that matters. If you don't want to be in the room and you're simply a... A seat at the table. Yeah, you don't want a seat at the table. You're just a purist and you just want to remain free because you don't want to actually exercise power. But the question is, it's like, exercise power to do what? Because it seems it seems here like as AOC meaningfully move the Democratic Party to the left. No, she has meaningfully moved the coalition of people who still support her to the right.

And that is the utility that that's the benefit that that's that's the service that she's providing that allows her to be code in the room is delivering a young liberal or progressive constituency to right wing democratic policies and coalitions. The final thing I will say about this election for this week is just in sheer mathematical terms who do you think what group of people do you think there are more of in America? Democratic friendly neoconservatives who are moved by a Cheney, a Liz and Dick Cheney endorsement

or Lebanese Americans. What is a bigger group of people? Just off the top of your head, just guess. Yeah. Well, they would have to meaningfully move the needle on a very important issue to them if they wanted to court, let's say, Lebanese American voters and they don't want to. Again, like this is to me like the brutal calculus that they've made which is like, you know, on some level they must think like, yeah, we're gonna lose all of their votes but we don't

really want them because we're not going to offer them anything and like on some level either they know they're going to lose or they've made the calculation that like we don't need them You know again like that whole Chuck Schumer thing about like for every working-class voter we lose We're going to pick up two more in You know the suburbs which you know that was made about like Wisconsin Illinois and Pennsylvania only one State of which Hillary Clinton carried so it doesn't really seem like the math did math

there. So again, I wish them the best of luck with these calculations, because, you know, don't fucking come to my doorstep on November 8. November 8. And, you know, like they always love to drop this, like drop their latest defeat at the door of the left, you know such that it is and You know, it's I'm not taking it and this is what to get back to the the floods and hurricanes and national disasters Happening in this country. This is what's so maddening about it Oh like why I can't stand people saying it's not fair that people are actually like incorrectly

They don't understand the FEMA budgeting process because it's like incorrectly, they don't understand the FEMA budgeting process. Because it's like... Ah, Patrick Wollstamsel, ah... As you said, like the first question in the VP debate is like, should we do a preemptive strike on Iran or does Israel have the right to do so? The message that, whether you are a Republican or Democrat, the message that you have been given is that the one issue on which both political parties are totally immovable on is our, quote, our ironclad support

for Israel's safety and security. Even if it seems like that is being prosecuted at the expense of the safety and security of American citizens, literally. At the very least, it's saying, you don't matter. The ones, yeah, drowning in, or, you know, being killed by a natural disaster in North Carolina. Now, that being said, I've been very hard on the Tim Harris campaign

but I'd like I'd like to talk now about a major major area in which I think Trump is trying to throw the election to Harris because I think he's he's sick of working. I think I don't think he wants to be president. He oh my god the way the way he looked on stage. I know yeah, this is what I'm going to It is where I'm going and you mentioned it already But it's it's that he returned to Butler, Pennsylvania To the site of his near-death experience to hold another you know Be like another big rally and who is the the highlighted who is the big guest at this rally? Oh?

Elon Musk and OK. Where is the love, Zilad? When the Trump assassination attempt happened, and I've said this multiple times, and that image of Trump with his fist raised and defiant saying fight, fight, fight. I was like, this is going to be the defining image of the 2024 campaign. This is going to usher. This is going to just, you know, he's going to go into the White House on roller skates based off this. He's going to usher this is going to just you know, he's going to go into the White House on roller skates based off this he's going to glide into

the West Wing. No, the defining image of this campaign will be the same location, but Trump looking over his shoulder despondently, sorry, despondently, and Elon Musk jumping around like a fucking idiot. Spring forth, Burley protector, and save me! Oh, geez, I never hang out with him. Normally. I love that. So he's been doing this for the past two years where he makes an X with his body to represent X the everything site. It's so good. It's so good. It was already bad before he ate through his ozimpic.

It was already bad before he ate through his ism pick As a connoisseur of extreme weight gain and weight loss myself I can appreciate this He you know, he's finally found something he is truly remarkable at Everyone who's taken a zip ik is like I couldn't eat on I just didn't want to do it. But not him. I don't know what he did. But he gained every pound they lost on a Zip-Ick back and more. I feel like the jumping to make his body into an X to advertise X the everything that app. I remember when he started doing that he would be at like a Tesla plant and like I and it's still image it just looks like he's having a seizure or something. It looks like he's having a stroke or something. And then like people would

respond to it. It looks like a fish being hauled on board. And people would respond like you know his shirt's coming up. You can see his awful stomach. And you know I'm like and then he has this look like this spazzed out look of like uh I don't even know how to describe it. It would be like the look the look that you would make on your face if you've never had sex for the first time and then busted. That's what it looks like when he does the jumping move. And people would just be like, would be responding to still images of him like frozen midair in some sort of like, rictus grin on his face. And people would just be like, what the fuck is he doing?

He looks insane. And then like the Musk st stands and the replies being like, he's clearly trying to make his body into an X to advertise X, the everything app. Doesn't matter. He doesn't look cool. He looks lame as fuck. Oh, I love the Tesla stands.

I like the look on Trump's face is so funny. There's a famous will you might know what I'm talking about. Jerry Lewis in like 1980 was in this movie called The Nut where he did his typical Jerry Lewis thing of where he's like, I'm going to play a horny guy with a traumatic brain injury. Back in the day. He's been in 500 movies. Yeah, seriously.

He's been in, you know, The Nut was presumably a guy who would get a boner and go, oh no, and like fall down a mail slot. To promote the movie The Nut, there was a promotional run with KFC. This is back when the real Colonel Sanders was alive and was a spokesman for KFC. There's a famous magazine ad of Jerry Lewis as The nut making his stupid face and Colonel Sanders, the real Colonel Sanders who owned slaves until the year 1989, right next to him. And like Colonel Sanders, it's a miracle he didn't kill Jerry Lewis in this. It's the best picture they could get. And the Colonel is so angry. He's like, I had, I had gone 80 years of meeting a Jew and I have to, this has

to be my first one, this fucking asshole. And it was never, I had never seen anyone, you know, in our extremely PR massage, uh, you know, refined age, I had never seen anyone in a controlled event make the face that the Colonel makes to Jerry Lewis until I saw the face Donald Trump made at Elon's incredibly cool ex-chef. I was expecting him to make posting photos of him illegal on ex or you know like a terms of service agreement. Yeah, he's like the king of Thailand. Yeah. It is very clear that Donald Trump does not like buffoonery of any kind at his campaign. He doesn't sanction it. It is a real Tommy Lee Jones, Jim Carrey situation here.

But I do want to read a little bit from the Politico article, writing up a headline, Musk the surrogate, the tech tech Titan will hit the campaign trail for Trump Says here tech billionaire Elon Musk will ramp up his personal efforts to elect Donald Trump in the remaining weeks of the election Including making visits to Pennsylvania to campaign for the former president Musk intends to appear in the swing state in the four weeks leading up to November 5th according to a person who has spoken with His team and was granted anonymity to speak freely because they weren't authorized to do so. He is expected to make the stops with the backing of America PAC, a pro-Trump super PAC he formed. He may make other appearances in the state independent of his super PAC as he did on Sunday evening when he showed up to the Pittsburgh Steelers game

wearing a MAGA hat and was greeted by Steelers owner Art Rooney II, among others. Elon is like, you know, he's not as unpopular as Trump, but he is underwater now. He used to, you know, he used to have like incredibly positive public approval numbers, like in the 60s or even 70s before 2016. He is now something at like, you know, high 50s, low 40s. And it's like, what do you think that does for you? It's like if you got another Donald Trump to endorse Donald Trump. It just doesn't make any fucking sense.

It's like if they're like, oh, Kamala has a major coup. She's going to get Hillary to campaign for her. Oh, no shit. Well, I mean, media reports, Hillary appeared on saying that she's advising the Harris campaign on how to beat Donald Trump. Wonderful. And everyone is happening again.

It is happening again. And you know what? Everyone got on her for that by being like, you're the only one who's you're literally the only person who's lost a presidential election to Donald Trump. But yeah, because of that, she knows what not to do. And that's what she's telling Kamala right now. Kamala has already followed her advice. Do you 9-11 came and went this year?

Did you hear about Kamala fainting? Yeah, there you go. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Almost funnier than like sending Elon Musk a campaign in the Rust Belt is like, you know, who's even popular, more popular among like Rust Belt Pennsylvanians than Elon Musk? NFL owners. Ben Roethlisberger. Yeah.

Famously adored individuals. Well, he's adored in Pittsburgh. I don't know about outside of it. No, I said owners. Didn't he appear with the owner? Yeah, with our broody. A little bit more from the Politico here. Did any of you hear what the owner? Yeah, our Grooney the second. Yeah, there we go. A little bit more from the Politico here.

It said, and on Sunday afternoon, Musk unveiled a new program in which he promised to pay $47 to people who registered to vote in seven swing states, Pennsylvania, Georgia, North Carolina, Arizona, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Musk has a history of using reward initiatives. He recently unveiled the referral program for Tesla, the electric car company he owns.

In the program, buyers and their referrers are awarded $500 or $1,000 in credits, which can be used towards Tesla products. Felix, given what we know of Elon Musk's history of pledging to do things and pay for things, what is the likelihood that he's actually going to pay $50 to people registered to vote? You are going to get $50 in X ads. You're going to try to get your voucher and it'll be like, congratulations, you can run an ad campaign on X. I mean, it would be about the caliber of ad campaigns I see on X. So someone pushing their Etsy store or their crochet, whatever.

I saw an ad on X that was advertising that scientists have discovered a new sour mineral. Oh, I saw that one. Yeah, scientists have discovered a new sour mineral and that imbibing this sour mineral will replace brushing your teeth. Finally. Well, Will, you're looking to invest in that. Absolutely. One last thing on Musk here in Pennsylvania.

But those close to Musk say his primary focus is on Pennsylvania. A state strategist from both parties, he is perhaps the most consequential in determining the outcome of the election. Musk who also owns X in the space rocket manufacturing program SpaceX and is worth an estimated $260 billion plus has ties to the state, having attended the University of Pennsylvania. In addition to the Steelers, he is also a Philadelphia Eagles fan, to which I got to say, Elon Musk is stealing my whole bit of rooting for every sports team from New York.

You cannot be a Steelers and Eagles fan. Yeah, yeah, I support every team in Pennsylvania. But I love that he has ties to the state because he went to the University of Pennsylvania, what, for like a year, a semester? What are his ties to Pennsylvania outside rooting for both of their football teams? The whole Elon Musk football fandom, I have never seen something that transparent. Like that is, I mean, outside of like Benny Johnson's heterosexuality. That is, like no one believes that he's ever like

willingly watched a football game before going to that Steelers game. Ha ha, ha ha, nice touchdown, ha ha, ha ha. Epic, ha ha. Honey, Honey Bger says interception. But back to back to where I started on Trump allowing Elon Musk to clown around on his campaign, that would seem to me an example of him throwing the election. But I simply have more examples of Kamala and Harris throwing the election to

Trump and vice versa right now. And it just does seem to me that things are breaking his way. But, you know, we shall see. And I suppose now, I suppose we could tend to, Catherine, I mean, you're partly responsible for, you know, incepting this idea into my head with the piece that you wrote at the Nation about the return of the hashtag resistance. And it was just like what you described in that piece just gave me the exact same feeling of 2016. And like, because you talk about like what you observed in terms of like, with Biden and then like trying to stick with him, and then and then removing him. And then this like, you know, sort

of reverse engineered enthusiasm or sort of like de facto enthusiasm bump for Kamala Harris and the ways it is now playing itself out in terms of like a pop culture focused reelection campaign and just this kind of like this idea that the resistance is a thing. Yeah, I actually like kept picking this piece up and like putting it back down and like thinking it was dead because like, you know, the resistance was like doing all their shit about Biden. And then like, you know, the debate happened. And then they were kind of like, is it more hashtag resist like for him to stay in? And there was kind of like a bifurcation of like Brooklyn dad being like, hey, like, you know, um, he's still, he's still the

guy, uh, even at Kamala HQ was like, he's, he's the one, um, you know, he's our nominee, whatever. And other people were being like, you know, very lightly, like he should get out. Um, and like, you know, just like in writing this piece, I like became, it really does feel like some PTSD. I became aware again of like, Jeff Tiedrich, who's still tweeting like cum socks about Donald Trump. And like, you know, just like this memeification of the Democrats, like, and like, it really fits with like Harris, like having absolutely

nothing to say as a campaigner or like, you know, what does she stand for? I don't know, like strict immigration policies, but not Project 2025. You know, just this, like this vacuousness and also like this, like, you know, like like memeing Harris into the candidate. And so like trying to like punish the left about like, well, you know, she's the coconut, so and also like, well, Biden dropped out. And so like, you know, isn't that what you all wanted? And then, you know, people were like, well, no, what we wanted is to stop arming Israel. And they were like, Yeah, but she's the coconut lady. You know, like you're doing racism or whatever. It really does feel like everything old is new.

Again, there's nothing new under the sun. And we're destined to relive, yeah, the worst of the worst of people online. It's the wages of draining all politics from a political campaign. And then like and filling that vacuum with these like supposedly youth driven appeals to popular culture that are just sort of like where are so vacuous because they're they're designed to like, well, you just fill in the gaps in your head. She's your cool aunt, you know, like and then all the things you like, like just fill it in your head. She stands for that. And then like it's and then also this idea that it's just like, no political point of view needs to be articulated

really, because Donald Trump is so evil. It's just it's your national, it's your civic duty to vote against him. And if you're and if you're not voting for Harris, you're actively helping this this evil, you know, the authoritarian destroy our democracy, but like, lost. Once again, when was the last time we heard that? How did that turn out the last time we were hearing that?

Well, just like lost in these pleas to democracy is like any actual democracy taking place. Well, yeah, it's all it's all sign and signifier, right? Like it's, you know, in an era when like Marvel movies are politics and like, you know, Boeing loves gay people. And you know what I mean? It's like, there's it's all sign that signifier signifying nothing. And like, I think that dovesails really nicely with this, like, you know, this democratic push about

like, you just have to vote, you know, like basically like, and you know, I guess depending on your take, there is some truth to that. But like vote over everything else. Because like, in a way, that's the only way to participate in politics anymore. You know, like no one's in a union anymore. There's no like solidarity. There's no class system that anyone identifies with. You just have to vote vote But at the same time you're voting for something that stands for less than ever So like it's yeah, it's like kind of a like a positive feedback loop of yeah Signifying nothing. I mean you even mentioned in the article that they brought back the cast of Hamilton

Reunited to record some fucking Kamala Harris song this year and reunited to record some fucking Kamala Harris song this year. Apathy, finger pointing, idle institutions, threats of retribution and a threatened constitution. Not so fast, see, our founding fathers brought the wisdom, listing ways to coexist with our election system. Yeah. And like Sarah Cooper, the one who was doing her Trump impressions, she was like, and I think in a way, this is actually really telling, she did one more, she's moved on from this. She was actually in or a writer on the unfrosted movies, so she's trying to be out the game, but did one last Trump lip sync video and was like,

please stop asking me for this, basically. I'm done. Yeah, made me a little sad in a way, but like I'm done, you know, like, yeah, like maybe a little sad in a way. But yeah, like it's yeah. And I think like, you know, even the people who like push this and like claim to believe in all of this, like emptiness, like it's not going down even as easily for them anymore. And I think like, yeah, the dosage you need to keep administering, like people are kind of inert to it and like, yeah, it's just not hitting the same way. One one one sort of difference in 2024 to like the resistance phenomenon that you're talking

about that I'm I'm discerning now, is that like in this kind of pop culture driven political campaign that is offered in lieu of actual politics, I think there's like there's there's a harsher edge to it this year and like I feel kind of embarrassed for bringing this up as an example But the insane reaction to Chapel Rhone being even slightly critical of Kamala Harris is like is a big part of this because it's It's not enough anymore that just like every every Actor and celebrity be on board and say that voting for Kamala is the most important thing you can do It's when when one who is probably one of the most popular musicians right now, specifically for young women, comes out and is critical of Kamala Harris.

And then, by the way, while stating that she is absolutely going to vote for Harris Walls in November, but she says like, yeah, like, fuck the Democrats. Like I'm, I don't, there's a lot about them. I don't like either. And then she said, yeah, obviously I'm going to vote for. And then the reaction to that of people who are like Seeking to discipline her or cast her out or like portray her as a Trump supporter because she is insufficiently reverent of this like pop culture political project is I think very telling to me because it's not like these people have an answer

For any of the critiques that she's offering about like why she's hesitant to pull the lever for Harris Walls. And the campaign doesn't either. I saw one of those white latinas who runs that AstroTurf organization for Democrats, who's also a Zionist. There are like seven of those now, you know, but she like she went to this website called Did My Friend Vote, which apparently has faulty records. It is it's supposed to like pull up voting records of, you know, anyone you know, so you can share it and scold them.

But it's like legal. Yeah. It sounds like not who they voted for, but like if they vote. Oh, okay. Even so. Those are public records. Yeah. It's still incredibly annoying. Like if you go to that website, uh, earnestly, you are, you are one of probably the most

annoying person in your zip code. But, um, a lot of people were saying that they like, you know, they voted in the last three presidential elections, but the website listed them as having not voted. But anyway, one of those people put in Chablero's real name. Her real name is like Kylie Reinhart. Kylie. Kylie.

Yeah, Guring. Uh, she, uh, and she, like, she lives in Missouri and they're like, uh, oh, look, she didn't vote. Why would you vote for a presidential election in fucking Missouri? Oh my fucking God. I will say, like, I, I have, do think that like just vibes based things are kind of a toss up though I do favor Kamala, but this whole thing of like castigating her for not being, not even not voting, just like not being sufficiently enthusiastic about voting for this shitty fucking campaign.

That kind of put me more where you are where I'm like, oh, they might fuck it. If they're doing this, they might fucking lose. Well, it's like- Getting into music chat, like it was kind of a one-two punch. Like she had put out that statement about like, could you not forcibly kiss me or like stalk my family members? Like, I don't owe you that. Like that actually happened to her.

And then with this, like, I think like the blowback was so bad that like she canceled a bunch of festival appearances. I feel really bad for the way she's been treated. It really sucks. Yeah. No, yeah. She has been made to be... The Democratic Party surrogates have made her this avatar of this hateful archetype of, in in their words, a low information voter who's going to throw this election for them. And it's like, yeah, it's really not fucking fair at all. I mean, like, yeah, they're using her as like a surrogate.

Yeah, like an avatar to castigate and discipline what they regard as like the betrayal of young people who are, yeah, like, are not getting on board or are just going to begrudgingly vote for Kamala rather than enthusiastically demand that everyone else do the same. And you know, Felix, to your point earlier about how Trump's biggest liability is that he's already been president once and this is the third presidential election that he'll be standing in in the last eight years. For like the hashtag resistance, that also, that cuts against them as well. Because the fact that Trump was already president for four years, it makes it harder to sell this idea that like he represents a unique threat to democracy. And I look, I know he tried to overturn the results of the last election.

I know like there are many bad things associated with him. But like the thing is, when at the end of the day, the four years that Trump was president, look pretty similar to the four years that Joe Biden was president, except for the fact that the United States is involved in like, two major wars by proxy that are we're losing or like, at least in Ukraine, we've lost. And in Israel is like shocking the conscience of the entire planet. It's hard to make the argument that like, oh, but this time is really important.

Then this is the time that like it's really going to matter this time, because like Trump has already been president for four years. A lot of bad things happen. I'm sure a lot of bad things will happen if he becomes president again. But like you can't you can't you can't reheat this dish too many times. Well, it's especially difficult to do when, you know, part of the reason the first two times you run against him, part of the reason that he is so uniquely bad is his immigration policy, which at the time was definitely unique

for American presidential politics, it represented a sea change on what the right wing position on immigration was. Romney was very much an immigration hawk in 2012, but he had difficulty communicating that in the same way that Trump did. But that is such a fulcrum point of why he's a unique danger and you're running on kids in cages and all these like truly fucking awful things, you can't then turn around and say, well, we tried to do that immigration policy and he wouldn't let us. Okay, what remaining parts are a unique threat? I mean, I guess they would say like the threat to democracy stuff, but that also loses its potency when you gladly accept the endorsement

of a man who actually did successfully steal an election. Two elections. Read the Conyers report about 2004. Yeah, Ohio was stolen in 2004. And to the extent that Kamala is talking about policy, if you look at her Twitter feed, it's all about immigration. She's out front putting forward know, putting forward like a pretty hard line immigration policy.

So, you know, again, it's like Trump, kids in cages, family separation. I'm not saying like Trump wouldn't be worse, but I am saying like she's preemptively out front, not only like centering this as an issue, which I think is like, is a mistake because this is something Trump is so strong on. You know, and like something voters are never going to let Democrats win on. But also like, yeah, her policy is right wing as fuck. And like, once again, it comes back to like the only real dividing line being abortion and women's health care. And like, you know, that that was the interview that Kamala did

this week was on the Call Her Daddy podcast, which is like, you know, obviously a platform for like her strongest issue, which is a woman's right to choose and whether that will continue to be legal in large parts of the country, if not the country as a whole. But other than that, it's just like, oh, like, like every Republican policy of the last 20 years is now just our platform. And then like, I know I can hear I can hear the Democratic surrogates going down the list of all of the big progressive achievements that Biden has accomplished. But in that case, look, LBJ actually got the Great Society Civil Rights Act and Voting

Rights Act done in addition to Vietnam. And he's still a failed president because of it. Whereas the Biden-Harris administration, oh, he showed up to a strike and he did an infrastructure bill, but they're also doing a Holocaust. Like, I'm sorry, like you're going to need to do better. You're going to need to do better than that. Every single time that they talk about the border guards endorsing the fucking stupid goddamn fucking border bill and how Trump wouldn't let them pass it, instead of abortion is a hundred

million dollars lit on fire. It is a future private jet that David Geffen cannot buy because he spent it on that. One last example here, this is something that came across my feed right before we started recording, but like because of Trump's unique position as sort of an outlier from the American political scene who's now totally captivated and changed the American political scene, he is still able, because he has a genuinely a worldview that is, you know, still some of it is his own, and it does enable him to sort of accidentally tell the truth about things in a way that other political candidates don't.

And Trump appeared on Hugh Hewitt's radio show, and he was talking about the campus protests against Israel. And he said to him, when you see these campus riots, you see a lot of people, too. But a lot of these people are Jewish people, you know that they're Jewish kids. And then Hewitt, like desperately tried to get it on back, get him back on track, and he says, oh yeah, there are some outliers, but mostly Jewish students are afraid. And it's like Trump is the one acknowledging that like the anti-war movement in this country is largely drawn from progressive Jewish youths. Like educated Jewish young people in this country are not like by any

means the majority of this movement, but there are many, many of them are involved. They're probably most of them are supportive of it. And but like what you hear from the Democrats, yeah, what you hear from the Democrats is that every Jewish person in America is afraid right now and they're afraid because of pro-Palestinian protests. And I'm not saying Trump is sympathetic. He called them riots or whatever. But he has a way of acknowledging like Trump has a way of like he doesn't know that the

dual loyalty thing is a trope, but he doesn't know enough that he'd not know that you shouldn't say it. And he also doesn't know enough to not know that it's also true. He's a broken clock. That's right. Twice a day, you know, by accident. I wish I wish he would let him like go on with that thought I would love to see what like the logical conclusion to that was

No, the logical conclusion to his thought is that the Jews in the United States are not loyal to him Even though that he supports Israel more than anyone and he says Jewish people have got to get in line and start being loyal to me and that's what I mean like and I'm not giving Trump any credit for these things, but it's just like, because the party is supposedly opposing the monstrous evil that he represents, is themselves perpetuating actually monstrous evil and lying about it every single day in this country by pretending that like, our college campuses have become hotbeds for anti-Semitism or anti-Semitism is worse now than it's ever been or you know every Jewish person in this country feels afraid or whatever that those are the lies that they have to keep telling so but by just by accident Trump will say something that's actually true.

Yeah. And like and this is why I am sanguine on the Democrats' reelection hopes. Because if they're just going to let these huge avenues of populist anger just be fulfilled by this guy, then they have no one to blame but themselves. And it's just like there are so many areas in which they could be speaking to actual anger or frustration that people have or articulating a political vision that like offers some hope to people in their lives or just like acknowledges the reality of life in this country in 2024. But no, they won't touch it with a 10 foot pole and it's back to like, let's get angry at Chapel Rome because she's not doesn't like Kamala enough. And and Chapa Trap House, the most the most influential left podcast. They've already they've already put us in the

fucking dirt. All right. They've already done that. It's not good enough. Yeah, I know. It's never good enough. Truly. Yes. I think I think that about does it for me. I mean, do you have any closing thoughts on this? Catherine or Felix? Yeah, I feel pretty much the same way as I did in 2020 and 2016, which is that as always, if they lose, they were gifted a uniquely unpopular opponent who had an extremely, extremely low percentage path to victory on the electoral map. And I have no illusions that if this campaign fails, that it will result in anything good. This is not really a party of like introspection or anything like that. But you know, just in removed from consequence and removed from anything else, does this

campaign deserve to lose? APSA fucking lootly. Both of them do. It's just a shame who either of them would lose to. All right, well that does it for us today. I will remind you, as I did at the top of the show, to check out our new merchandise by Matt's book and come see us in LA with episode one on election eve in Los Angeles.

Tickets available now. I'd like to thank our guest, Catherine Krieger, and please check out the articles she wrote for The Nation. We will link to it in the show description. So until next time, everybody, make sure to remember this October 7th is the date that permanently altered our plans to change this show into a Tulsa King recap podcast. We can't do that anymore because of world events. Hope you're happy Israel. All right, till next time, especially in the South. Spread the word and drive your friends! Rock the vote then see 6 million new black voters coming from Gen Z!

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