Chapo Trap House - BONUS: Amber Interviews Paul Prescod, Candidate for PA Senate

Episode Date: December 31, 2021

Amber talks to Paul Prescod, who is running for Pennsylvania State Senate in the 8th district. They discuss campaigning for labor support, working with unions towards a green future, taxing frackers & more. Check out Paul’s campaign here: https://www.paulprescod.com/

Greetings, top of listeners. It is Amber Lee Frost here, and I have with me a special guest, Paul Prescott, who is running for state senate in Pennsylvania, District 8, correct? That's right. Yep, that's right. Yeah, that's a place. I've heard of that. Okay, so first question. We're going to go at it hard-hitting. When will Jackabin Magazine acknowledge that they are coordinating a cabal of Caribbean contributors? Because you've got Cyr, your dad's from Barbados. We've got Bosker. We've got Rameke. What's going on there? It's very suspicious. Will you be happy until you have a member from each island nation? Yeah, we are actually, this is an attempt to create the new West Indies Federation.

Some of you might know there was an attempt in the 60s that failed, but we are reviving it. Okay, and we all know that West Indians have the best politics of any group. It is actually really fun learning about West Indian politics, just because, I mean, it's obviously different. They have a completely different relationship to capital, but also it's so small and it's so localized. I remember telling Bosker about this Calypso song that the singer was saying that if the councilman that he had just voted for or didn't lower the price of milk, he was going to beat him with a piece of mango wood. And that is such local politics. That is, I am going to assault you with a piece of

regionally specific lumber. And it's a song that people like could dance to. I mean, they probably did, which rules. Yeah, I mean, and actually take Barbados, for example, very tiny island. It was, and I used to live there in the summers. My dad was also a public school teacher. If somebody had off, we would live there and you would see the prime minister that's in the grocery store. You're like, Hey, what's up? And like putting fruit in a bag. Not a huge place. Yeah, if I wanted to, maybe I could have brought a piece of mango fruit and try to beat him with it. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's an option. That's what you get with, with local politics. Like the equivalent of like when the guy threw the shoe at George W. Bush.

Could have done that, or could have just beat him with a mango. Okay, let's talk about your unit endorsements. Going straight to it. So you've got, you've got a, and you just got a new one. You just got the postal workers, Local 89. You have Temple Association of University Professionals. You got IBT. That's, that's Teamsters for Trains, basically, right? Right. You got Teamsters 623. That's Package Carriers. AFT, Local 2026. Oh, and AFL-CIO DC33. That's Private Primary Education. Right. Yeah. Ask me DC33. And I'm really excited about that one. That is the second largest union in the city. And that's like blue collar municipal workers. So sanitation workers, water department,

streets department, school crossing guards, all types of city workers. I can't keep all your union endorsements straight. How do you get all of these union endorsements? What is it about Paul Prescott that they love? How do you, how does one woo the Teamsters? Because I know how I did it, but I have a feeling you did it differently. Well, I mean, honestly, a lot of this was just longstanding deep relationships that I've built for years, you know, and, you know, my background is in the labor movement before running for office. I was a public school teacher, very active in my own union, the Philadelphia Federation of Teachers. We are engaging in their endorsement process as well at the moment. And, you know, my main site of political activity

for many years was in labor and not just in my own union. And honestly, in my DSA chapter, my focus was in our labor committee. And we built a lot of really great relationships with local unions. And, you know, all of that kind of has very organically translated into this campaign. You know, it's something that can't happen overnight. Like I always say, these unions, it didn't, I didn't just show up one day and make a great Deslin speech. That's just not how it works. I don't think my public speaking is that good. But yeah, these are people that they know what I'm about. They know this is a serious campaign. They know, like, if anything, I have to force myself not to talk about labor too much on the campaign and remember that

there are other issues as well. So yeah, it's been really great to see this come together earlier. And as you know, and I'm sure many listeners know, it's actually pretty rare, because unfortunately, a lot of times it doesn't just come down to who has the better labor platform and labor we're endorsed, you know, there's a lot of structural reasons why unions will often go with an incumbent over a progressive challenger, even if that challenger has better labor politics. There's a lot of complicated reasons why. So this is felt pretty unique in what we're building here. And I think also unique that it includes a lot of blue collar unions as well, as opposed to just, you know, more white collar semi-profession grad students, right?

Yeah, I'll be nice. I was trying to be nice. But yeah, you don't gotta be nice to grad students on this podcast. Yeah. And you have that coveted blue collar endorsement from the Philly Democratic Socialist. I don't know how you got that one there. So yeah, you know, it's tough. I had to get the six unions first, you know, and they were like, for you, because as you know, that's very difficult. Yeah. It does seem like I think a lot of people go into, especially small racists, they're like, we're going to go around and court the union. And we're going to say, knock on their doors and say, this is our platform. And unions are like, hey, who are you? It really does take kind of a long game and a longer lasting relationship than just coming up with like a good brochure about what

your policies are. Yeah. And I think, I mean, a problem I see with many, not all of course, but many progressive candidates, and you know, it's like, they will say, of course, they're pro-union. And I'm sure they are, but it's like, it kind of comes off maybe as an afterthought, not necessarily central. And you can get a sense that it really isn't necessarily central to the worldview. And or even how they see the race, because I'm out to be totally honest, why I see these, this union support is so important, not just on principle and not just because of course, I love unions, but literally our ground game is very dependent on these unions mobilizing their members and having a lot of members in the district who can vote. And you know,

obviously, yeah, of course, you know, DSA, they do a lot of great canvassing. That's a big part of it as well. But I actually, I really do need these unions in order to win and getting out the vote. And that, you know, that's a big calculation any candidate should be making. Yeah. I mean, there are also some of the only working class institutions that exist as decimated as they are. That's kind of it. So there's constituents, and then there's communities. And I think people will kind of think in terms of like running an electoral campaign that they can appeal to communities, communities is kind of a fuzzy word. What's your approach to your constituency? Yeah, I mean, it's broadly it's really not too complicated. I mean, it's like there are issues

that we know, both just through living over the years, but also through conversations that of what are depressing issues people are facing. And to my district, the Senate district in Pennsylvania is pretty interesting. It's pretty large geographically. Tell us a little bit about it, because like Pennsylvania is too weird. It's got like the last working class city in America, and then the hills have eyes. Right. Yeah. So it's my district encompasses West Philadelphia and portions of Delaware County surrounding suburbs. So even within West Philadelphia, I mean, there is a heavily gentrified part around the University of Pennsylvania, and Southwest Philly is more so working class, you know, vast majority black district.

And then Delaware County, again, it is more sort of a working class suburb by but still different than what you'll find in the city. But you know, like within that district is some of the poorest zip codes in the city and the state, public schools that have been devastated, lack of jobs, gun violence is just off the charts all over the country, especially in Philadelphia, and especially in my district. So you mentioned gun violence, which I think a lot of people sort of see as like sort of a right wing boogeyman. But like, if you live in a neighborhood with gun violence is actually a very real concern. I remember someone once saying, you know, so like a lefty person once saying was like, well, you know, more people die of like car

accidents every year. And I'm like, yeah, but there is a different kind of psychic terror of someone with a gun coming to intentionally kill someone. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, and yeah, I mean, we can't ignore it. And you know, I know it's there's the temptation to say this is just being played up by the media. They're exaggerating. And I'm sure there's a grain of truth to that. And like, look, gun violence is nothing new to the city of Philadelphia, of course, but it really has reached levels that many people have been around a long time have not seen in a very long time. And, you know, and the kind of arrogance that comes with, you know, maybe disproportionately middle class group. Yeah, crime is fake. I don't see it anywhere. Right.

Yeah. And, you know, it's an extremely, you know, and I have begun knocking doors in the district and like it is the number one concern that will come up and it's extremely visceral. I mean, it's the difference between thinking about like, do I even want my child going to an after school program because now they're going to have to walk home at this time of night, you know, or do I even want to go to the park if you even have a park in the area because of what we're worried about. So it's a very visceral thing people are dealing with in their daily lives. And of course, you know, our answer should not be, yeah, just stick the cops and everyone and total tough on crime stuff. But we have to acknowledge that it exists. And we have to understand why just

like saying something like defund the police is not going to make sense to people. And ironically, especially working class black people are dealing with these issues. That's not going to make sense as a way to frame the problem. No. Yeah, it seems like that that zeitgeist kind of went away pretty quickly. A few few cities tried it under, I think it was just basically to Trojan horse in austerity for all kinds of things like we're defunding the police. It's like didn't help. And the only thing that happened is that the rich neighborhoods hired private security and doesn't really solve any of the problems. Okay, but yeah, the violence more broadly, I mean, it tends to like overwhelm any kind of no matter where you are. Again, it's not some right wing bogeyman or like middle class,

whatever, but violence and crime. It can kind of overshadow more positive projects. So you're running on, you know, kind of a Green New Deal legislation program to how do you talk about that when people are like concerned about their kids going to a park? Yeah, I mean, I try to frame, I mean, everything under the heading of public investment. And you know, whenever gun violence is coming up, you know, most people understand when I start talking about, you know, if we had better funded schools, or if we had more active school programs that kids could go to, or if people can know they could graduate from high school, not to go to college and get a really good paying union job. When I frame that to people like it really it resonates, I think people get that.

And I think this kind of maybe, I don't know, this sounds a little wishy-washy, but I think this gun violence we're seeing, I see it and a lot of people agree is kind of this part of this general story of a total lack of hope in the future and not seeing a future. And, you know, I think talking about it in that way and saying, you know, like we need to fund our schools, we need people need to be secure in housing, they need to be able to have a good union job in the future, something to go to, I think that that makes sense to people. And, you know, there's a great analogy we can use in this area because in an area called Lower Marion, and it has one of the wealthiest school districts in the state, very affluent area, it's very, very close to

West Philadelphia. I mean, you could walk to it, it would take like an hour, but it's very, very close. And if you're there, it's like you're in a totally different universe. And, you know, most people are aware of that. And so, you know, you just make the point, like in Lower Marion, they're not dealing with this because, again, their schools are so, you know, funded to abundance. And there's any after school program you can imagine, they're not dealing with these same issues. But that shows that it's very possible to do this. And you can get a glimpse of what life would be like if we did have that kind of public investment. Yeah, there is kind of a benefit to living in a city, no matter how like unequal it is, just in terms of you can point to, it's like,

hey, well, the money's right there. I'm looking at it. It's, you know, three blocks over. Yeah. And there's also, I mean, looking at the University of Pennsylvania, and Ivy League School in my district that, and I wrote a Jack Ma article recently on this, has a $20.5 billion endowment. And they are exempt from property taxes because they're constituted as a nonprofit. And so, you know... Wow, it sounds really lucrative to be a nonprofit. Right, it's great. Should check it out. So, you know, and this is literally, if you, a modest tax on University of Penn would bring in over $40 million to the school district every single year. So, you know, and that's something we can point to in the district that's saying like, we need to force

these elite institutions, whether they're a corporation or a fake nonprofit Ivy League like Penn, we need to force them to pay up and, you know, we can hold them responsible for a lot of problems we're seeing. Sure. So, in addition to these little loopholes of place like Penn, like Pennsylvania is kind of a tax haven. Like they've got natural gas too, and they don't really pay anything. They do not pay taxes, yeah. Even though they apparently leave people with flammable water sometimes. And we're literally probably the second or third largest fracking state in the country these last two decades. And again, no taxes. I mean, that has to be a huge obstacle though, right? I assume there's a ton of lobbying from natural gas and

anyone else who wants to set up shop and not pay taxes. This is obviously a question I know the answer to, but how much effect does that have on campaigning? You mean that kind of lobbying influence? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's interesting because in my district, you know, my district does not include communities that rely on fracking for jobs. You know what I mean? So most people in my district, especially voters, are kind of of the same opinion that it's a very basic thing to them that a fracker should be paying taxes. You know, so now that would be a bigger influence. Like when I am elected trying to actually pass legislation to tax them, of course, would be a much more tougher affair. Does it seem like rural communities? I mean, I know, you know, with a lot of my

family, they're like, look, Cole gave us jobs. We can't do anything that will make them go away. This was the last time we had union work. And, you know, they, there is some sort of clinging, even though the industry is basically gone from those communities, there is a lot of fear that the only jobs in that area will go away. Is there something similar going on in Pennsylvania with natural gas? Yeah. Now, I will say, and this is something I've found out more and more through talking to people that are actually more so in those areas is that they've actually found that a lot of workers in Pennsylvania fracking are actually from Texas, not all of them are, but there's actually a large portion of people that are not necessarily Pennsylvanians. But yeah, I mean,

it is a problem. And this is actually why, and there, I mean, some people in the environmental movement, you know, really disagree with this. But I kind of, this kind of just happened organically when someone asked me a question of it, where it's like, in terms of how would we transition away from fracking, it can't happen overnight, right? And it's like, obviously, you don't want to pair it industry talking points. But like you said, there are many, many communities that like totally depend on this for their economic livelihood. And I think the most realistic thing we could do is start taxing them heavily and use that money very specifically for an actual transition program that is real and is heavily funded. And, you know, we need a real actual plan for that. I mean,

I'm actually I'm working with my research team to roll out a very specific plan of like, what exactly would that look like? How would we fund a real transition? Now, that position is definitely different than an immediate fracking ban. You know, but that's something we have to think very seriously about. Like, I don't I don't think we could just shut it off overnight, right? We need a plan. Yeah, we need to work through. And, you know, I've been, you would also encounter a ton of resistance from working class people to again, like, right, exactly. You know, and one thing I have been encouraged by though, is at the state level, increasingly in Chicago, they just passed a really great, ambitious climate legislation that was like, totally supported by the unions,

including the building trades around climate. And, you know, plans for the creation of tons of really great union jobs and clean energy. And part of it too was a very well worked out transition plan that unions, even in those sectors that would be transitioned out of could get behind where guaranteed, you know, over years that they'd be taken care of that, when we retraining would actually be real that they would keep their health insurance for a long time. So those are the kinds of plans we actually need to be talking about, even if we know we can't pass them next year, I think would send a signal to those unions and those workers that we're actually taking this problem seriously. And we don't think we can just end things overnight. Yeah, I think the building

trades and the teamsters in particular, there's a lot of sort of confusion about, you know, those are the right wing unions, which doesn't really mean anything. It's like, when a union's on its back foot, or when, when labor more broadly is on the back foot, like, they are not able to, they're fighting for the union, not necessarily, you know, programs that would affect everyone. And like, I think with the Trump stuff and the builders, it just seems so obvious to me, it's like, yeah, well, some of the building unions endorsed Trump, because he said he'd build things. He's a guy that builds things. That's their job. Like, how is this not obvious to you? You're like, look, you know, it maybe he's not the most brilliant guy in the world. Maybe it's

kind of a piece of shit. But I definitely see his name on buildings, which is, you know, it's bottom line stuff. And actually, there's funny, and I did a segment on a Jack in the show about this, there's a really great, it's both funny, but also it's like politically, it was very good, a rally trumped in with the building trades. Oh, God, I love that. Folks, I'm a builder. I'm a builder. Yeah, yeah. Just look at the amazing talent assembled here. We have iron workers, insulators. Never changes, does it with the iron workers. Now, let's hear it. Laborers, painters, fitters, plumbers, operators. They're operators, all right, I'll tell you that. But really, you're the backbone of America. With the talent in this

room, we can build any city at any time, and we can build it better than anyone. But we're going to do even better than that. Together, we are going to rebuild our nation. Yeah, he's like mentioning to like, like, you know, stunk, stone cutting and like, you know, marble tile and tarot. So like, like weird fucking building, like that's the shit that because Donald Trump knows what a tarot is. Yeah. And also what people have to realize is that so many of these building trades unions, they are already working in renewable energy. And for a lot of them, it's a very pragmatic situation of they don't, there's nothing, they have nothing against clean energy. I mean, what they want is jobs. And it's like, whether those are there

are immediate concerns, right? Whether those are fossil fuel jobs or clean energy jobs, they want jobs. And so our job is to present and keep presenting credible plans for actual jobs in clean energy. I mean, I had a very interesting conversation with the head of the sheet metal workers union in the Philadelphia and surrounding area. And it's very interesting union because they both work in building retrofits for clean energy, and they work on pipelines. And the guy said, like, look, I'm all for transition. You know, I take climate change very seriously. I'm all for transitioning away, but we just need to figure out what are we doing with those jobs, you know, so-called dirty jobs. And again, if there's not a realistic prospect, if we're not

powerful enough to present a plan of like, well, here's how we could actually find the transition. In the meantime, what else can they do except take the jobs on offer? You know what I mean? Right. And the whole like idea of timing too, it's just like, well, you know, in 10 years, we're all going to be underwater. It's like, okay, well, people living paycheck to paycheck in one month without pay, they're metaphorically underwater. So you just have to think of these things in terms of timing. If you have nothing to offer with the, with your green new deal, it's a bad, bad green. And also, you know, having, I mean, respect for these workers and their skills and knowledge. And I mean, Lee Phillips wrote a really fantastic piece. I forget the name and

where it was published. So that's useless, but really great piece about this. And I mean, making this really important point that like, these are the workers that actually have the knowledge and skills to do the transition we're talking about. And we need to, they need to be part of this from the very beginning of crafting, what is this going to look like? Because there are going to be the ones actually doing it. And it's kind of an arrogance about not thinking you need them or need to do the work of eyes. It's like, I have no idea how the hell we're going to, I couldn't tell you what we're going to do. Yeah, it's like also the whole like, well, we'll just do, it's like, well, first of all, you're not going to do it personally, you are personally not going to be

doing the thing. So it does seem like maybe incorporating the input of people who are literally going to be doing the thing is pretty integral. Well, okay, so you mentioned that you're a union teacher as well, you're active in your union. So you have a real job, why do you want to be a state senator? Or rather, rather, what can you get done? Do you think as a state senator given, I mean, and if you want to segue this into talking about the obstacles in Pennsylvania politics, that would be great. Yeah, for sure. And this whole thing kind of is ironic. And I know this is like the corny thing every candidate is supposed to say, but I truly didn't really see this coming. And I've always been someone and still am someone that believes I mean, I think the most

important work we can be doing is in the labor movement specifically. And you know, I think there is no electoral movement without that kind of base and that kind of movement going for you. But you know, having said that, I've definitely been inspired by, I mean, mainly Bernie Sanders, but also other candidates in the country and at the local level, who come with this movement perspective. And you know, I think Bernie showed us that we need our movements reflected in the state at some point. And other countries, you know, that have labor parties or socialist parties, like it's very common sense. Like, of course, we need a movement, but of course, we need this in the state. And I think we should be having cadre or I hate to use that word, but you know,

people don't use that word, Paul, you're running for office for Christ's sake. You know, we need these kinds of people that organically come from these movements to be running. And one weakness I saw of many of these new left candidates, even very good ones, is they did not have roots in labor and couldn't, they couldn't launch their campaign from a position of having that kind of labor support. Well, let's clarify that for like a little bit, because I think there's, you know, this whole debate, particularly within organizations like DSA, and they're all these words, they're like organizations, institutions. But then you have parties, and then movements, and then unions. To me, there's kind of a, you know, like of the

approaches, you've got your sort of electorals, your movements, and got sort of like labor activism. But I don't know, some people have a quad sort of thing of as a triangle. But I guess what, to your mind, is, as someone running, the relationship between electorals and movements, just for you, personally? Yeah, I mean, I, so first, I think, I mean, the, the electoral campaign should come out of a movement in some sense. And I think that's what we're doing in this campaign, in the sense of like, I'm someone that comes out, generally out of the labor movement, out of building these kind of progressive labor coalitions, and seeking to reflect that in the state, in different ways. And I think a big way is what we were just talking about around crafting

real infrastructure deals and, you know, green energy transitions with union buy-in is something that a state legislator can be a part of. And I think, and this is part of the, my answer to, what can I do when getting an office? So I mean, I look at this as kind of a few different tiers. So one of them is the fact in Pennsylvania, I mean, barring something, you know, unforeseen, if I'm elected, I will, there's probably going to be a Republican majority in the state house and state Senate. And so there's going to be a big barrier to a lot of the things that I can do. But this is where I think this idea that, you know, Bernie put forward around this organizer and chief thing is very important in situations like that. Whereas whatever is happening, or not happening

at the legislative level, if there is a strike in my district or in the area, you know, taking a very different approach to that than a traditional politician would be doing, and really seeing my role as like everything in my power, using all the resources at my disposal to tip the scales, you know, in favor of those workers in that struggle, and to do my best to organize constituents around that in different ways that haven't been done before. And that of course could be true about whether that's a housing fight or something else. And, and I think bringing these coalitions together for the long term. And again, I keep coming back to this around green energy transition. And this is what we've seen in some of these states, because not just Illinois, but also New York,

Maine, Connecticut, they're starting to get this train moving in a very good direction of getting labor truly on board with this stuff. And state legislators have been in the middle of that and been part of convening that coalition together and moving it forward. And I think that kind of stuff where it's like, even if we don't pass it this year, we have worked out a genuine plan with the unions that we can get behind, that we can keep pushing for in the future. And, you know, really being central on that and putting labor at the forefront in that way. These are all things you can do, even if you can't pass legislation to reflect that. Yes, you know what I mean? You know what I mean? We're laying brick one at a time. Right. And also, I mean, you know, and

these looking for certain openings, I mean, the issue of nuclear power, I mean, this is another controversial, personal thing in the environmental movement, but I think there could be room in the state where, you know, around saving nuclear power plants, you could actually get some bipartisan support. I mean, forcing the University of Penda pay taxes could surprisingly get some bipartisan support. I mean, so. Oh, I think you could get some bipartisan. You just go to that. You go to the Republicans and say, these kids with their basket weaving classes and their right, their trigger warnings, they don't even the people that sell this to your children don't even pay taxes. And then, you know, also, I mean, and this is I'm getting very ahead of myself, not even having won

this election yet, but thinking long term. I mean, I think what our elected officials in this position also should start doing is I mean, really testing the theory that we've been having is that you can you can run a candidate in a so called red rural working class district with a burning star program. If the right kind of candidate, right kind of campaign, they can win. And I think as elected officials using our resources to find that candidate. And, you know, this could work several ways. I mean, let's say you get some good, you know, infrastructure projects done with certain building trades unions, you find a building trades member in a so called red district and run them on a program of infrastructure funding public schools, that sort of thing. And

this is actually the story of how maybe we can start flipping these districts in the way that we want to do it. And, you know, elected officials have a role to play if they choose to use their resources and cloud and political capital to do that or even have the idea to do that. I think it would be possible in the in the medium to long term. Okay, so let's wrap it up with a final question. I think it's very important. If elected, and you fail to deliver, what will filthy delphians beat you with? What will be their mango wood bat? Okay, you got to think about this, man, because they're an angry people. Yeah, I mean, the real answer is probably like any sharp metal object in the vicinity of anyone. But I think they're opportunists. Yeah, the Super Bowl cup, the

trophy Super Bowl trophy. There you go. That'd be a good one. Cheese steaks, they could like throw them at me. Yeah, it wouldn't hurt, but it would be disgusting. He'd be covered in cheese whiz. There was a high volume of them always. Yeah, after a while. But yeah, those are the top ones that come to mind. But yeah, really, most sharp objects in the closest vicinity would be it. I don't want to stoop. I won't suit the level of Ben Simmons. I think he'll always be the most hated person. So I'll use him as like the shield, you know, I won't that guy. Yeah. Well, I think you'll be I think you'll be safe. But thank you so much for joining us and talking to us. And we will post up a link to your fundraiser friends of Paul Prescott. And

I think you got a shot. Best of luck. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me.