Chapo Trap House - Bonus: G Max Update feat. TrueAnon

Episode Date: December 7, 2021

Brace and Liz from TrueAnon join us to share some updates from their coverage of the trial of Ghislaine Maxwell. We discuss the strategies of the prosecution and defense, new revelations & evidence revealed in the proceedings, and the testimony from victims. For daily podcast updates on the trial, follow TrueAnon wherever you get your podcasts.

Greetings, friends, coming at you with a special bonus episode featuring two very special guests who have been dedicating themselves for the past week and for the weeks into the future to good old fashioned shoe leather reporting. I'm referring, of course, to Brace and Liz, who have been in the courtroom every day for the Jelaine Maxwell trial. The host of Truinand, welcome back to Chapo. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Will. It has been, you know, Jesse Smollett has been a big friend of me and Liz's for many years, and it's just been an honor for us to go and actually cover the truth about what happened.

Yeah, yeah. We're faking all the reporting for right now on the Jelaine stuff, because we're actually in Chicago covering the Jesse trial. Yes. Well, it's been courtroom revelation after courtroom revelation. It's like a friggin' John Grisham novel around here. But so, yeah, you guys have, you know, listeners to Truinand will have been, you know, you are one of the only, really one of the only media outlets that is providing, as you described it, gavel to gavel coverage. It's so weird to hear you describe us as a media outlet, but I guess we are.

That's what we're definitely sitting there watching the trial with real live reporters. Well, the thing is, a lot of media outlets are afraid to say that I didn't like that guy's attitude or I thought that guy looked weird or that bitch is lying. Or do you think the U.S. Marshals want Christmas cookies? Which they absolutely do. Yeah, I mean, it's been really interesting. The first day was a total madhouse. I mean, we got there like six, like early six at a time,

and we thought we were being so clever. We were going to get there so early and it's so cold. And we were, you know, it wasn't exactly clear how this would shake out in terms of overflow rooms. And we were afraid we wouldn't get one of those. I mean, there was, frankly, a lot of media people saving spots in line for their friend, but we were maybe fourieth in line. And we did definitely get in and we've been getting in every day, but it has been, it was after that initial circus of the first day

and then sort of waning crowds every day since. It's been, we've got ourselves locked into a pretty good routine here. So day one is like when Supreme has a new dropout and like the sneaker heads are lined up around the blocks. You know, they're just going to buy them and resell them on, you know, online or whatever. But the true Jelaine heads are staying for every minute of this trial. And she has been head to toe cookies as she's been wearing. It's been horrible looking. But yeah, the first day was mostly taken up anyways with the judge really getting granular

with the schedules of the jury and if someone, there's one guy to take a Christmas vacation. But eventually they got to opening statements and I think the prosecutions was about less than half an hour and the defense took quite a while. Well, I was reading, I was reading some analysis of the trial. And according to the legal eagles out there, they said that the prosecution's opening statement clocking in at just under 25 minutes was astonishingly low and one of the quickest opening statements they've ever seen in a criminal trial of any kind, let alone won this high profile.

So, I mean, just based on the first week you guys have been, you know, watching this trial, how would you rate the prosecution's performance thus far? Can you get a sense of like what's the case they're making and how they're behaving as they conduct this trial on behalf of the state? You know, it's interesting because my thinking and my feeling, and I think Brace, you're the same, has gone back and forth kind of as this week has gone on where from opening statements on, I was like, oh man, what is the prosecution doing? They seem unprepared. This case seems very tenuous. Like how are they really going to get, you know, I mean, you're talking about a lot of what the case hinges on is something called grooming,

which we all kind of understand, but doesn't actually have like a legal basis, right? No legal definition, clear cut definition, let alone all the other stuff that has to get negotiated legally, right? So, when it opened up, it felt like, oh my God, you know, the defense, whole sharks, you know, Ghislaine's defense team comes straight out the gate, opening like defense statement is like, ever since Eve got blamed for Adam, I mean, it was like theatrics, wazoo. I mean, it was crazy. Also, let me get something real. Let's be real here. Adam and Eve, both guilty. You can't get out of that by saying they're both guilty, just like in this case. Well, I mean, the snake groomed, the snake groomed Eve to eat the apple.

Yeah, yeah. Well, he's Israel. But yeah, it's, I mean, it exact like it was, they came out looking like real like badass, like tough lawyers. And the physicality of the two is really interesting, like the prosecution, first of all, the team except for one lawyer, they're all young women. Yes. Two of them have the same exact voice, which is very weird. Mexico. And they have this kind of affect of like giving a school presentation.

Like we were joking. It felt like they opened their opening statements with like the Webster's definition of sexual assault. Like it just like had this kind of like, you know, I was calling her like Tracy Flick, but without the charm. Like there was something very like, you know, get straight a student about the prosecution. And we, so then we immediately are like, I mean, Bobby Sternheim, the, you know, kind of like Gillian's main lawyer, literally looks like a far side cartoon. Absolutely. I mean, she is a performers performer. She's like Clarence Darrowing all over the place, like just just an incredible presence on, you know, the court.

The jury, yeah, on the court. But as the week has gone on, it seems like the defense really has no strategy. Well, so that's the thing, right? I mean, a lot of these charges, in fact, all of these charges basically revolve around the manipulation and physically moving and enticing of minors and trafficking minors across state lines and into these situations. Right. And so really what Gillian's team has to do is, and we were actually just, just talking about this is like, in most cases, I feel like they'd be like, I didn't do it. You know what I mean? And in this, like she's kind of trying to say she didn't do it. But if she did do it, it was legal to do.

But like also she didn't do it because these, these girls want money and besides their whores, but it doesn't matter that the whores because nothing happened anyways. But if it did happen, it was all Jeffrey Epstein's fault. And I don't even really know Jeffrey Epstein. I just worked for him and he was so cool. Like that's literally been their strategy so far. And it's like, I mean, as sharp as the lawyers have been, because it's not just Sternheim that's sharp. It's, it's basically everyone except for this one guy we call Peg Gliacci, you know, they're pretty, they're pretty smooth operators. But once you sort of like take away the very lawyerly bluster that they have and like the sharpness and the quickness of their questions, it's like, you know, frankly, I don't see a winning strategy.

I mean, what, what I have in my consultation with lawyers, they have been to AK, I've been going out of the aquarium. But, but in talking to lawyers, it seems like really her only strategy. That's the beamest thing they keep at aquariums. Every time we mentioned sharks or lawyers on the show, I just make a shark reference because in my head, that's how people think it's like an email you get. Like, what are the difference between a shark and a lawyer? Nothing. Oh my God. People are like, well, do you need good lawyer jokes?

Yeah. That used to be a thing. I know thousands. I'll do them for the rest of the episode. No one tells us anymore. What's better than a football field full of dead lawyers? What? Picking them off your cleats.

What? Incredible. That is, that's true. I did do that at Notre Dame. But the defense, obviously, they're killers. You got what you pay for and it seems like they're coming out of the gate with a lot of razzle-dazzle of reaching back throughout history. Women have always borne the brunt of the sins of men. But also those same women, not guilty, even if they did bore some of the sins and the commission of those sins and funding and aiding and abetting these crimes. Exactly.

But the first week, the prosecution gets them, they get to go first, right? Yeah. So essentially, what does the defense with all their razzle-dazzle, what do they have to counter? What is the case that the prosecution is building here and was there anything revealed in the first week that came as a surprise to you guys as close watchers of this case? Well, so I actually, you know, I still sort of think that I don't think that the prosecution, from my perspective and from where I'm standing with my knowledge of the evidence, has a super solid, strong case. Because the case isn't like, did Ghislaine Maxwell do weird shit because she obviously does, you know, that takes two seconds to prove that. But did she traffic minors and did she get these minors to cross state lines? And so a lot of their case revolves around both the actual nature of her relationship to Jeffrey Epstein and then literally if she booked certain flights or not.

Yeah. And so that makes it a little, I still think, I mean, I think they can win, but it's not like, it's not as simple as a case that like, you know, many people think, oh, Ghislaine Maxwell is on trial for having sex with children, fucking, you know, open and shut case. It's not like that surprises have been, well, there's been a few surprises, I feel like. There, yes, there have been. Today we actually finally saw introduced into evidence some, well, we haven't seen the photos yet, but they will be introduced tomorrow. Some photographs that were taken seized by the FBI out of CDs that were in binders that were in Jeffrey Epstein's townhouse that were seized when they stormed in there in July 2019. So just like CDs full of photo images in a binder of CDs was like, you know, next to his like Dave Matthews live album, you know, his concert rips or whatnot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was mixed in with, but like, no, these were more like we were shocked at how many CDs there were.

So, well, what are these photos? You see a photo from, you know, the townhouse of a closet in, I believe it was the fifth floor of the townhouse, which had eight floors, which is crazy. Two underground. Yeah, I don't know how you have two basement, whatever. Anyway, so in the closet top of the shelf is like, what, you counted 13, right, Brace? Yeah. 13, maybe, you know, five to a range of five, eight, 12 inch binders full of sleeves stacked with CDs that are all photographs. Is this literally binders full of women?

Yeah, that's what that thing is. We actually don't. I mean, this is this is sort of the thing about the so the the like labels on the side of the binders were redacted. And so on every single one of them because of third party information, which we don't know what that information is. So that's third party names. Exactly. Identifying information on there of third parties. And so they were all blacked out, which was obviously, as you can imagine, very frustrating to many in the courtroom, including ourselves.

However, I mean, this was also so we'd known that there were binders full of women or girls in this house that had been taken out of from his safe. We had not known about such an insane amount of I mean, this is truly like an incredible amount of CDs. And it wasn't just those 13 binders. There was also like boxes full of CDs, drawers full and like a storage bin. There was like drawers of just CDs. Yeah, with women's names on them and also hard drives, which we do not know the contents of. And so up tomorrow morning is actually they have this is really where they cut it off tonight. She was about spent about 10 minutes on the stand.

A data analyst with the child exploitation and human trafficking unit at the FBI who is seeing some of the photos is going to be talking about them. And I believe they're going to enter some into evidence. However, this does not mean that we're going to see like Bill Clinton, you know, like making out with a four year old. It's not like I don't think that is going to come out here. The thing that's been frustrating to see, although we don't ever see it until later in the day because we don't get our phones with us for eight hours a day is all of the kind of like blockbuster Twitter accounts that have appeared up. And they just say like the defense has named Donald Trump or, you know, Prince Andrew has been named and they're getting all these retreats or whatever. And I think there's this expectation that all of this, like all of these people are going to get named in this trial. And one thing I would say is like the prosecution, their focus is so narrow because they don't want to bring all that stuff.

They're literally trying to just convict Ghislaine on these crimes and they don't want to mess everything up. Bringing in like Glenn Dubin or Les Wexner or Bill Clinton or Donald Trump, that would help the defense's case if anything. Absolutely. By making a story about like these powerful men manipulating people in their orbit. Exactly. And that's what they were fucking. That's what the defense was talking about even in the opening statements. Like, you know, Ghislaine is not like one of these rich, powerful, and you could tell so badly she wanted to say white men.

Like, you know, she's not like one of these, like, you know, obviously bringing them in wine scene or one of these guys. But like she is like one of these guys. I mean, there's like literally no difference except. She was making out with Boris Johnson and uni. If you hooked up in any capacity with Boris Johnson at any point in your life, like, you know, you are worse than the club. Well, yeah, yeah. You're guilty. He wasn't a bad looking chip when he was younger.

I'll give him a, I'll give him a right sack. Oh, no. I was like, so in the first week, who were some of the witnesses that the prosecution called it like to assemble their case, which is, you know, like, like they're trying to keep laser focused on simply an issue of like, did she booked flights for these underage girls to be cross state lines. So the way it works, and we're all figuring this out in real time together, because we are sadly not lawyers, but Jewish. The way it works is the prosecution has to kind of set the set the stage to build like so one witnesses and evidence builds off each other. Right. With this idea of like everyone would, you know, the jury is sort of like brand new babies and it's sort of like, imagine they don't know anything about anything. And so you have to start from the beginning.

And so the prosecution first calls their, you know, their first witness, Jane, who tells us her story, one of Epstein's victims. And then from there, they bring in Epstein's pilot long time, long time pilot. He was with him for 30 years on his three different private planes that he owned throughout the years throughout the decades. And they use him to establish the different locations that Jeffrey Epstein would fly to. From there, they then move to the house manager of his Palm Beach estate, which then is able to establish the kind of like the actual like physicality of the estate itself, so that they can give context and corroboration to some of Jane's testimony of where things happened in the Palm Beach state. So everything kind of has to like build off each other. And throughout all of this, there are like some witnesses.

Like there's, for instance, there was like the finance director of Jane, like, you know, the Biden victim. It's not her real name. There's three out of the four victims involved in this are using pseudonyms. But Jane's like the finance director of the high school she went to. And then like, you know, this other guy, I think the admissions director of a camp she went to, and these guys are brought down for like 10, 15 minutes and maybe an hour. And like, so it links in these like these long segments and then these short ones with, you know, all witnesses, like Liz said, building off of each other. I mean, like, so I mean, like, do you need these these other witnesses to corroborate aspects of Jane's testimony? But like, you know, independent of that, how did you find Jane's testimony?

Did you find it compelling? And like, what, what in her testimony, like, what did she say, like, actually did her or like, like, how was she involved in these crimes? Well, so I, I mean, we've, I believe actually all four of the victims have told their story publicly in some form before. With with minor victim number one, she is an actress. And I remember like when they brought her on, I was like, Oh, I know who that is. And so I was familiar with her story, too. You know, she was recruited by Galayne and Epstein at a camp interlocking, like, arts camp. And she lived in Florida. Her father had recently died.

And it was a classic situation that really actually was was reminiscent of some of the testimony where today from another victim, where essentially Galayne groomed her normalized. It's like, I mean, this is a 14 year old girl normalized, sexualized, like, like contact and talk and all the stuff with this older man, Jeffrey Epstein, and then the other massages and giving money and this sort of relationship built from there. And so it's a very like, I guess, classic kind of Epstein case. And it involves like a girl, a young girl from Florida, giving him, you know, these sexualized massages in his mansion there and all of it facilitated by Galayne. You know, and she flew on the plane. She visited, you know, different properties with them. And that was a big part of it because you have to show that Galayne was always the initial point of contact for these teenage girls. Yeah, I mean, even this when she was with Epstein was Galayne that walked up first.

And so that's like, that seems to be a big, I mean, we, you know, one of the other victims is public, so with any farmer. So we sort of know her story already. But yeah, I mean, I think that's going to be a pretty common thread here, but it was it was really affecting testimony. And how did how did how did you how did you lane's attorneys cross examine or, I don't know, call into question the credibility of these, you know, these first hand accounts. I mean, it's almost like comical their approach. And by that, I mean, like, I didn't, you know, it's like on law and order where you see kind of classic defense attorney shark who's like kind of cartoonishly painting a rape victim as wanting it or it being transactional. Or, you know, oh, she's just a slut or, you know, all of these like cartoonish portrayals, like they're actually doing, they're actually going that route. They're trying to discredit them by suggesting that they were trying to advance their careers.

They were all trying to get something out of it by being an Epstein's orbit, you know, or they wanted it. Complicated by the fact that they're 14 years old, because like, even if what they're alleging is true, like, does that that doesn't get anyone off the hook for absolutely. Because it's like a 14 year old is trying to network and fucking social climb by doing this. It's like, well, if you're still doing it to them, it's not like, you know, I mean, it's just like, yeah, I mean, it doesn't seem to exonerate the person you're trying to defend. No, I mean, it's it's it's really horrific stuff, to be honest, watching it, watching that happen in real time. I don't know, I was a little shocked the defense went that strategy. But that's kind of like what we're saying where, you know, they the defense for Gillain is so confused that they want to have it all these different ways. They want to make a case about how like women or women Gillain included are abused and used by powerful white men, but at the same time, they're basically calling the accused Gillain's accusers like money grubbing harlots.

Right. If they're money grubbing harlots, what does that make Gillain? Well, exactly. It's like, and everyone is under the spell of white of powerful white men, except for the ones who are asking for it. It makes absolutely no sense. I mean, it's totally ridiculous, too, because like you said, yeah, a 14 year old trying to advance her career is actually is, you know, what's actually happening here is these too much older people with a lot of money are telling this 14 year old girl that they can make anything happen for her. And like, oh, your dad's like, oh, like, well, don't worry, I'll get you into this school. I know all these people in exchange for sex.

And so it's like, well, yeah, it doesn't matter what this girl thought she was getting out of it. It's really not clear that she thought she was getting, you know, much out of it. I mean, FC was paying for voice lessons or whatever. But it doesn't that doesn't like the thing is like that's like this is saying they're trying to bring that stuff up. Like it makes it that it makes it not illegal or it makes it OK to do this. And the defense laid out in the beginning that this this this trial is and they repeated this several times. It's about memory manipulation and money. And so what they're trying to say is these girls have faulty and they think corrupted memories.

They were and they they left a question of manipulation open because they're saying they were manipulated by their lawyers into trying to get money, but also manipulated by Epstein, who also manipulated Ghislaine and money. I mean, like they're all trying to get basically a piece of that's the most bullshit one because it's like they literally are legally forbidden from suing Ghislaine because they got money from the Epstein victims. Yeah. And so, yeah, it's ridiculous. Well, what about the woman of the hour, Ghislaine herself? I mean, can you make it anything?

I mean, just like just reading the tea leaves or her body language or demeanor the way she dresses. I mean, like how does she appear in court? Oh, you know, it's interesting. So ink lines wafting off her that say guilty. You know, OK, so it's interesting. I noticed something today. So we heard from a second victim today, who's actually the third victim in the indictment, but she came second in the order of testimony of victim testimony. During Jane, the first victim that we heard from her testimony, Ghislaine was furiously writing notes to her defense lawyers and kind of like I was a little shocked at her demeanor.

I mean, she was very much like looking around, like kind of scoffing a little bit like she didn't believe anything that Jane was saying that, oh, no, she's got this totally. Like it seemed like that's kind of what was going through her mind. Like, oh, this is not what happened, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So like she seemed like she wanted to interject during all those. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like as animated as one can be sitting there silently, I guess I know that sounds a little crazy. And I'm being like one of those CNN body language experts that you're like, that's not a real job.

But I swear that's what I saw. But then today, and I have to say that this, the testimony we heard today from victim number three was very difficult and moving. And she was a very, I mean, she was very affecting, I think, or just like just a really difficult couple hours there. Elaine had her hand over her head the entire time, like covering her eye, leaning on the table, not making eye contact with this woman, not looking at her attorneys. Like maybe would sometimes whisper something, but was really, it was a very different like pose that she had. And it was striking how different she appeared in court. Yeah, I mean, it's and I mean, the fact of the matter, she's got that little damn muzzle on her that fucking. Oh, I know.

Scandemic muzzle. But so we can't see, we can't see like her, you know, like licking her teeth or anything like that. I will say her sister, Isabelle Maxwell was behind her today, dressed exactly like Curtis Silva. What, she had the beret on? She had a red beret. She wears the beret every day. Oh, yeah. But today she was fully guardian angel out.

Oh, yeah. She had a red sweater with a matching red beret with a black vest over it. Like she straight up looks like a fucking angel. I mean, I'm wondering, like in the world outside of the courtroom itself, which you know, you know, the law tries to keep us her medically sealed as possible. You know, I've been following this trial through you guys and just like, you know, the media coverage of it. I'm wondering, I'm sure you guys saw the courtroom sketch of the courtroom artist of the case, portrayed Jelaine, like making eye contact with the artist and sketching them. Yes. No, I have no doubt that that was.

So there's a lot of courtroom artists and I, Liz and I got a little. This was a whole thing I didn't know about. We got a full briefing on how. The whole economy of courtroom artists. I'll be real with you. I thought courtroom, there was just like a guy. I thought there was one. There was one official.

There's like 50. They're all freelance. Wow. Some of them are on contract with like the big papers, Reuters, whatever. COVID really smashed their boardwalk business where they're doing caricatures of people being like, oh, you're like Mueller's Gates. Yeah, no one mentions how the pandemic took out this, the lowly court reporter business. And the caricaturist. Yeah.

No, it's we were sitting. Oh my God. We were sitting right behind this mother daughter. Oh, this was. Duo that are courtroom sketch artists. Also, both somehow 95 years old. Incredible. Incredible.

They are so old. The daughter is older than the mother. It's a real like little eddy big eddy situation. I actually couldn't tell which one had. I just assumed the smaller one was the mom because people shrink. She was, she was covering the inherit the wind trial probably back in the 20s. She was sketching Clarence Darrow and fucking. Yeah.

Yeah. They are like, they have the worst posture I've ever seen in my entire life. Hunched over and they're bickering the entire time with each other. Screaming each other. We need to. Okay. This is this is a prime sitcom opportunity. Yeah.

Every week, a different trial, every week, a different argument. I was completely and totally enthralled by the drama between the two. Well, also, we couldn't hear the actual proceedings because they were not. They were yelling at each other, but they were also, and I sound like such a bitch saying these loudest little chalk noises I've ever heard. It was like. And they're drawing like a glass box. Like they're not even, I was looking at what they were drawing and it was like not, it's

like lady, no one's buying that one. But we found out, we found out from, well, I won't have, I won't name on this and catch them out, but we found out from this dude, we know that apparently a large part of court reporter business is actually just suing outlets. And like, because, you know, you'll, you'll do this court sketch, but then it'll show up in the news. Show up. And it won't be credited.

Yeah. Yeah. I guess these clear the permission. I guess these two little ladies had sued so many outlets that they were having trouble actually selling their artwork to any of them anymore because they'd done so many lawsuits. And so, yeah. Yeah. And the other sketch artists don't like them.

And so they didn't let them in their room with the other sketch artists. And so that's why they were exiled to our room. Yeah. It was like a whole thing. What they got to start doing is putting like Taylor's version on their, on their courtroom sketches so then they can maintain their own copyright. Exactly. Yeah.

I want to ask you about two things that happened outside the courtroom very much as it relates to this case. First being the accidental revelation of something like 700 previously undisclosed Jeffrey Epstein flights. Yes. And then the other being the claim made by some that Jelaine had a Reddit account and was like posting under real Maxwell one and then like up until her trial date. So I want to get your take on both of those aspects outside the courtroom.

Okay. I'll take the first one and I'm going to leave the second one to brace because he gets, he's basically disturbed. The flight thing I think is shocking only because they disclosed it by accident. That they like responded to, they denied the request and then accidentally sent the records is like an incredible detail that I love. But I think that, you know, I mean, they're FAA records, so they're always going to be different than the ones that were kept privately, which is what the logs that we've seen are,

right? And so we, from those, those flight records, we don't know exactly who was on it, but seeing all the different trips, you know, I think is, is fascinating. Absolutely interesting. And you can kind of do a little bit of forensic detailing there to try to guess and figure out what's going on. All right, brace. What is the deal with this Reddit account?

Didn't listen to a fucking word just said there, just said there because I've just been looking at these. This is the little alien like pulsing in his brain. Oh my God. So the, all right. So for those who don't know, who haven't had this sent to them 5,000 times a fucking day by the most lame brain, first of all, if you're, don't tag me in anything ever because I've seen it.

I, I, you think that 500 other morons have done the same exact, you're, people love sending me like, dude, do you know Epstein died like, it's like DMing me that like, check this out. Just don't do that. Yeah. We know almost everything already. But all right. So for those of you who don't have that happen to them, there is this theory and boy, don't

get me started this. There's this theory that Ghislaine Maxwell had like the most like, I guess karma is like a point system on Reddit where you get it the lame or you like the more I don't, I don't know. I've used Reddit like twice in my life. And I, so I don't know exactly, but like she's like a mod on all these subreddits and stuff. And somebody, the username is Maxwell Hill. And apparently, I guess it stopped posting that the day that Robert, excuse me, that

Ghislaine Maxwell got arrested. And so people look through all the post history and were like, they did this, like they, they're sympathetic to pedophilia and like, all this other bullshit. I mean, that's just because they're on Reddit. I'm like, dog, you are also a pedophile. You are on the website Reddit. You are, you should be in prison for longer than her. Like it's here.

I hate you. See, you're calling bullshit on the Reddit account. I'm calling such bullshit that all the fuck people love to see a bullet point of fucking shit that some of its bolded and be like, yo, look at how much evidence there are. None of it is fucking evidence, dude. None of his fucking evidence, zero of it. You just want it to be her so you can be like, look, there's someone who's more of a pedophile than me on this fucking website.

Fuck you. It's fucking way fair bullshit. It's fake. It's fake. It's fake. It's not real. It's fake. I believe it just because it pisses Brace off.

So that's enough for me. I gotta, I got two small questions about things related to the trial that I was hoping you could help clarify. The first being the very detailed instructions on the gun that should be left in Jeffrey Epstein's nightstand, and then two, even more fascinating to me, the staggering number of framed photographs in Jeffrey Epstein's house. Yeah. Very, very, both.

I mean, like one is just like, well, you know, you can tell your manservant, make sure there's a gun in the nightstand. The other one is way creepier to me. Well, let's not a surface exist in that house that is not covered in frames. Yeah. I implore you. If you're not seeing interior photos of Jeffrey Epstein's Floridian abode, check them out because there's nowhere to put a single cup because you'll be knocking over 50 frames of

fucking. Oh my God, Brace. You would knock over every single one of them, too. Like dominoes. Pull at a china shop. Yeah. I'm clumsy. No.

What can I say? No. People just shouldn't put things weird. I will say, if anybody out there has access to some kind of database in Florida that can tell me what gun Jeffrey Epstein had, that is my most urgent mission right now to find that. Also, second most are, well, that and the Ghislaine Jew thing. She's not Jewish.

Yeah. You're on that tip right now. I want to say one last thing I'll say about the frames is it strikes me as just such a like classic like shitbag rich guy move where it's just like tons and tons and tons of framed photographs everywhere in some bragging capacity, whether it's diplomas or famous people or in the case of Epstein, fucking young girls in their underwear or whatever it is. All of those three things combined, well, not diplomas in his case because he dropped out of college twice, but it just seems like it's just like total rich guy brag every surface

covered with more and more evidence and shrines to my greatness or whatever. Just awful, awful shit. Well, I mean, just like as the trial going ahead, I mean, the funny thing about any legal case is that no matter what the facts or preconceptions of people going into it, it really does become about two sides competing to tell a better story to 12 morons. When that happens, literally anything can happen. I mean, you sketch out like the defense has a very tough case to make, but it's sort of the vagueness of it adds to the ease with which they can make it.

Not only does it not matter how contradictory what they're saying is, it actually helps their case to make it as confusing and contradictory as possible. Yeah. All they have to do is just put the smallest bit of doubt so she can't be convicted beyond a reasonable doubt, but the thing is, I don't think they can. At the end of the day, you'd be like, this lady fuck kids. I mean, yeah. I think their strongest move is always you can't try her for Jeffrey's crimes.

There's a little bit of scuttlebutt that I've heard down at the old courthouse that the original case, like basically the prosecution had Jeffrey, and I think that's very clear that they, I mean, it would be very, very easy to convict Jeffrey Epstein and put him away for a very, very long time. And then he, we know what happened, and they had to basically rework everything in order to prosecute Ghislaine, which they were not anticipating. She's the one holding the bag. She's the one left alive that's going to take them out for these days.

Yeah. And they just were not, I don't think that was originally anticipated. One, I think that's why it took a year for them to arrest her, but also you can see it in some of the way the case is laid out, I think as well, and that speaks to those kind of like the holes that you're mentioning and the way that the defense can kind of, you know, has a lot of space to sort of muddy things up a little bit. Well, I mean, like, taking like the broadest view, I mean, like this case is about, you know, the people, like the Jane and the other witnesses who are testifying about what happened

to them. And like, you know, in the strictest sense, the prosecution's job is to obtain for them some level of justice. But obviously this case is about a lot of broader things as well. And I think this case is about state crimes rather than just individuals, you know, the avarice and fucking malevolence of a group of or single or partnership between these two people. But like, the broader context of like the state crimes that are playing there, I mean,

do you see any hope, any chance that this trial will, if not shed light on them in a court of law, then to like at least, I don't know, advance the ball further in terms of like the public consciousness of what the broader implications of this case really represent. No, I mean, I think that's our job. I don't know. I don't think the case itself does that. I think that like we all have a responsibility to put these things in the kind of context that can help open up some of that discursive space or that, you know, that kind of, you

know, the space to kind of understand and view the world a little bit differently in how these crimes are aided and abetted and continued and reproduced as, you know, in the same way that wealth is. But I don't think, I mean, I don't know. I don't know how you feel, Brace. We haven't actually really talked about this, but I don't feel like, I mean, one, and not a lot of people are covering it, but I don't feel that, I don't know, I don't think the case in and of itself is going to do much on its own, if that makes sense.

Yeah. I think, I mean, at the end of the day, and we could sort of spell this out. I mean, we spelled this out on many episodes or, you know, talked about it, even tangentially or directly, but it's coming to play on a lot of our episodes, is that like, you know, it's pretty clear that there's something going on with Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell, and intelligence agencies and international agencies, both involving many people, very prominent in American politics, but also in Israel's politics, but also in places like Columbia and, you know, various other places in South America.

The UK. The UK. Yeah, of course. You know, and it becomes very clear that Epstein is a part of this Patrick, and to me, I mean, I think Ghislaine, I mean, Epstein's a fucking dope, you know, Ghislaine is the person who is the daughter of, you know, one of the people who was, you know, according to some, one of Israel's most valued spies in entire, that nation's entire 5,000 year history. You know, and it's like, you know, that's the thing, it's like, at the end of the day,

it's like, you got to pull back and be like, whoa, okay, actually, this is the daughter of not only a prominent, you know, businessman and fucking thief in Britain, and of course, former Labour MP, but a, you know, a very prominent Israeli spy who mysteriously died himself off of his boat that was named after his daughter. I mean, that man's daughter is the one on trial. And like, that is an important thing to keep in mind, you know, I mean, there in the fucking crowd, Isabelle Maxwell, you know, watching her sister, you know, on the docket there, Isabelle Maxwell took over information on demand, or I think changing the same to research

on demand from her father in the, I think the 80s, it was the 80s in Silicon Valley. And that was the company, one of the companies that he used to sell promise software, which he had stolen from an American company, and then sold to a bunch of different intelligence agencies all around the world with a backdoor in it that Israel could use to track all of their data. So it's like, you know, there are these, there are these very clear and clean connections here between both the past and what's going on today. And we're actually watching them in the courtroom, but are they going to bring that up in the

trial? No, they're not. No, I mean, it would, and then as we discussed, I don't think it would behoove the prosecution to do that. No, no, no. I mean, depending on the makeup of the jury, sorry, one last thing that I saw today, there was some, something like, I don't know if this is a new revelation or not, but it was just like, just like some, some company that Epstein sold to one of his associates.

And then the exact same amount of money was showed up in Jelaine's checking account the next day. Yeah. Like 18.3 million dollars or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. He was funneling a lot of money to her, it turns out. Also, he bought her townhouse we found out, which I didn't know.

Oh. He, yeah, he was moving money to Galane and then Galane, we found out today was then using that to buy a helicopter, which was purchased by her company, AirGalane. Yeah. It's the funny thing. There's been a list of, of Galane's little like front companies before and a lot of them are like Galane. They're brilliant company.

Whatever. G-Max. She loved calling herself G-Max. That's what her signature looks like, too. G-Max. Maybe, though. Shut the G-Max. Well, G-Max.

I mean, like I embrace you alluded to it, like, you know, Epstein is something of an oaf, but like, you know, and then Galane is the one left holding the bag for his crimes. But like, would Jeffrey Epstein have been Jeffrey Epstein? Had he not met Galane Maxwell? No. I mean, the thing is with either of them is there's no indication. I mean, there's, you know, the guy was insanely horny. So he probably would have been some version.

But I mean, Galane is the one who got this machinery moving, you know? Like that. Galane is the one that makes this case, like it takes it from the sex crimes of a depraved and rich individual to something that, you know, touches on the international intelligence agencies and the world of like finance, tech, media, everything. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Yeah.

Galane's entire, like, raison d'etre for her, the entirety of her relationship with Epstein was, you know, I need to take care of Jeffrey's needs. But Jeffrey needs is to rape, molest, assault young girls. And she took care of that for him and provided that for him. That's the thrust of the case. And that's what happened. I mean, you know, it's all right there. Yeah.

Well, Truinon, I've got to thank you guys for your around the clock. Once again, I must, I must stress, gavel to gavel coverage of the Jalane trial. But, you know, they don't use gavels. They don't. No, there's no, this, this fucking lady, no, she's just like says it, she's just like stop when there's no gavels at this trial. She might have a gavel, but it might be a decorative guy, but like sovereign citizen brain turns on, let's say she gets convicted.

If there have been no gaveling throughout the trial, can she really say to have been, I mean, she's under maritime law. There are no gavels on ships. No, no, no, I mean, I've been bringing a gavel every single day. And whenever anyone says something, I bang it. All right. Yeah, it's ridiculous. Well, like you guys have been posting daily updates from the trial.

You already know what time it is, Truinon's the podcast. Please check them out for, like I said, in depth coverage of, you know, trial of the century. I mean, it's a young century so far, but it's what we got. Yeah. Well, I mean, I got to say this, Jesse and Holmes trial, all coming together to form the pyramid, that the all seeing eye, which is all three of them getting both not only found not guilty, but starting a new company together, you can call me, you can call me

Jesse Theranos Maxwell, because let me tell you, that is going to what's going to be leading us. That's who that's who forget Trump. That's who's running running in 2024. We can call it Jesse's girl. Yeah. I don't know. I like G max.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. God, she looks terrible. Well, Will, thank you.

Brace and Liz. And you too, Chris. Thank you. You guys are very welcome. Come back anytime. Cheers guys. See ya. Bye.

Bye bye.