Chapo Trap House - BONUS: Neighbors ft. Harrison Fishman & Dylan Redford

Episode Date: March 11, 2026

We’re joined by filmmakers Harrison Fishman & Dylan Redford to discuss their new docuseries “Neighbors”. The series chronicles neighbor disputes throughout the USA, and offers a near-psychedlic glimpse into how private property induces unbearable levels of psychosis in a variety of everyday Americans. We discuss how interpersonal surveillance, social media reinforcement, conspiratorial paranoia, completely useless civil institutions, bad pet ownership, guns Guns GUNS, and good old fashioned being a jackass render the very idea of living next to someone a psychic and emotional battlefield in this country, and how Harrison and Dylan went about capturing it on camera. Neighbors airs Fridays on HBO and is streaming now on HBOmax.

Hello there, everybody. It's Will here, and we've got a bonus chopo episode for you today. And on today's episode, we'll be talking with Dylan Redford and Harrison Fishman, who are the creators of the new HBO documentary series, The Neighbors. If you haven't seen the show, it is very much in the vein with, like, Renfair or How-To with Jonathan Wilson, and it is a very funny documentary series featuring real people that, honestly, is one of the most jaw-dropping things I think I've. ever seen. Dylan Harrison, I've seen the first three episodes of this, of your show so far. And in every episode, I was screaming at my television. I just kept saying, what? What? Over and over and over again. So just like, real quick, describe for our listeners, maybe if they haven't seen the show. What is the concept behind neighbors? What is the show about and what are you guys portraying here? Well, I mean, in just very basic terms, it's a, it's a show about

neighbor disputes throughout the United States. And it's, you know, each episode has two different neighbor disputes that we follow in real time as they escalate, essentially. And I think we sort of use the neighbor dispute as sort of a window into both the kind of like wild lives of our subjects, but also, you know, a window into sort of an American psychology or sort of an American kind of moment. and zeitgeist. And there's a lot of reasons why we chose neighbor disputes to do that. But that was our goal. I'm just going to give you, like, if I had to describe this show to someone who was not familiar

with it, I'm interested in your guys take on this. When you started to create this show, did you intend to create what, in my opinion, is probably the most vivid and irrefutable argument for the total abolishment of private property that I've ever encountered? Not just the abolition of private property, but the abolition of most civil and legal rights for Americans. You know, I don't know. Yeah, go ahead, Dylan. No, I was going to say that wasn't necessarily our intention going into it, but it definitely like this project, I think, started.

You know, me and Harrison and Harrison's brother Sam, we got excited about neighbor disputes because we were watching a lot of just like online viral videos about neighbors. And it was such an interesting sort of subgenre of the sort of online confrontation video because, you know, you can't, it's not just like a Karen fight in a parking lot where they just go their own separate ways. You know, they just go at it over, you know, let's say a recycling bin and then they have to live next to each other for 25 years. And so that to us was like, was like, okay, this is definitely exciting.

Yeah. And so I think like we had a sense that, you know, there was something there. And then we were thinking about all that stuff. And then and then honestly, you know, over COVID where most of our lives was just like watching people screened each other on the phone and like yell at each other on the internet, this feeling of like, oh, there's something sort of some sort of social contracts, whatever if it even existed has just completely frayed. And, you know, a great sort of touch point to like dive into that kind of non-existent. you know, contract would be looking at neighbor disputes and how people think about land and ownership and privacy. Harrison, I don't know if I missed anything. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's so many things I feel like in the show that I think what's so fun to us is just like, it's like the neighbor dispute is just merely the entry point into like learning about these people. At some point, the disputes like as we were casting the show just became so much less important. It just becomes like a vehicle. It's like plot. You know what I mean? Like it's just like, we need a neighbor dispute. And like, of course you need like it to be different than the last one we just filmed.

It's like, all right, this one's about fucking cats. But it's like what's really exciting is like, yeah, the people themselves. And and that's why I love making the show. And I think we get so excited about it is like just being able to explore people's lives and learn about, you know, an excuse to like be in some some random person's house is like one of the most beautiful things that I've ever experienced, I think, of my life, to be honest. Like, yeah, I don't know. I feel so grateful that like every, there was not a moment when we were making the show where I thought, oh, I want to leave or, you know, I hate listening to this person.

It's just like the entire time was just like, we were just addicted to like being in a place that we had no idea. I mean, America's just so much different than, then I even honestly imagine to be totally honest. And the smells are totally different than I think we could have predicted, but that's another conversation. I mean, like, that's, that's fascinating to hear you say that, because this is a show

about people who are at war with their neighbors over the most mind-numbingly stupid things. Literally, like, I think in the third episode, like, over probably three yards of grass. And like, this is, consume the lives of both of these people and rendered

it, like, rendered their lives mutually unlivable. And, like, Each of the people you feature in this show are so uniquely weird and fascinating and hilarious. It's like you question if it's real or not, but it definitely is. But Harrison, I think it's so funny that these are about people who are like, if you step on my property, I'll kill you. My home is my castle. That's what we're talking.

But like, through the guys of television and through the guys of telling someone's story, you two are invited into the homes, more or less, and given total, completely full access to the private lives and castles. of these absolute lunatics who are at war with everyone else around them precisely because they fear what you guys are actually doing to them. Yeah. I mean, it's, I mean, it happened quite a few times where like they would be describing a very like paranoid scenario of I think I'm being filmed, you know, by my neighbor and we're standing there filming them. So and then sometimes there would be incidences where like the subject would flip on us and be like,

are you actually working for the other neighbor? And are you, is this whole thing fake? And are you ultimately here just to film me to gather intel to, you know, bring back to my neighbor? And I think like both like the camera was the thing that got us into the, you know, into these situations. But it was also the thing that was like the most, it was the thing that I think brought the most amount of like anxiety around like whose side that we were on.

And, you know, are we, were we actually going to tell those sides? And no, the first part of what you're saying of a lot of people being paranoid that we were on the other person's, the other neighbor's side, I think is like the biggest one of the biggest hurdles that we had to jump through in casting. And like, how would you convince them that like you, you are not actually a party to like the property line dispute or pet issue that has been vexed these people to a homicidal degree? It's a good question. I mean, I think like for us going in, it was always like our interests were in line and that like the the episode was only going to be interesting if we could get. I mean, first of all, we like had to get both sides. That was like the, you know, that was like the mandate for the series is like they had to be ongoing and we had to get both sides. Once we got in there, I think the thing that always came up is that like your side is always going to seem more reasonable if it's paired with the counter argument. And I think that for in their minds, oftentimes they're like, I'm so right that the other person getting their chance to say their piece will only make my side look more right. You know, so like I think it's, it is just becomes a thing where like you become so convinced of your own opinion that, you know, it in your mind, even just the voicing of the opposite opinion makes your opinion more legitimate. I mean, you talk about how this show is like, you become sort of a broader.

vehicle for like an examination of a certain kind of contemporary American character or the zeitgeist. And I really think like an aspect of that that came through to me is that no matter what their issue is or what's going on in their lives, every single one of your subjects is 1,000% convinced that they are the hero of the story. And that also that they use the internet as like a way, a canvas to which to project what they believe will be their heroism to the public at large. and they are constantly waiting to be hailed as like the hero or victim of their own story publicly. Well, you know what's interesting is like when we, I feel like set out to make the show and when we were like shooting,

I feel like there was a point where we were like, it was almost like we were at like the edge of a cliff where it's like how much are we showing or having people who have online presences? Like do we want a lot of, you know, do we want to have subjects that have a big online presence and use social media and stuff. But I feel like at one point,

we just realized that, like, it's just such a huge part of these neighbor disputes. It's such a huge part of also, like, just everyone's lives now. And it just, like, makes everything feel more contemporary. Like, we couldn't run away from any of that, even if we wanted to. And I think, like, a big part, it's, you know,

there's something kind of, like, tragically absurd about it. But, like, when you are in a, neighbor dispute and you know, you call the, the police because, you know, whatever, something's happening and you need their help. You call the police because that's what happens when you need help in our country. And, you know, they're awesome, by the way. We love the police. We love filming.

No. But you call the police. The first thing that they tell you is like, you know, well, we can't do anything. You're on your own. This is a civil matter. You know, no way we're getting involved. But you should totally, like, just film everything. and gather proof for like a court case.

And so it just makes everybody, it's like just the system itself, it turns you into the type of person, I think that a lot that's on our show, you know? Like, yeah, we've sort of called it like, you collect all this footage and you're told to basically, you need to be able to tell the best story in a civil court case. You need to be able to go in and present all your material

and come these like little documentary filmmakers because they basically have to be able to tell the best story. have the document their neighbor, you know, just like religiously in order to get enough footage to tell their side. And then what starts to happen is like you then, well, where do you put all this footage? Why might as well just start putting it on YouTube? And then you start putting it on YouTube and then you start getting a following of people who are reaffirming your way of telling your story. And then it's like, you know, conspiracy theories are kind of in the background of a lot of these stories or like a conspiratorial mindset. And I think like it always starts.

there. Whereas, like, the way that this system set up is it kind of puts you in a position where you have to become, like, who can become the most, you know, convincing conspiracy theorists around their own neighbor dispute? You know, like, how do you take something material and tell a story around it that gets, you know, everyone around you convinced that you're right? And I think that kind of blossoms out throughout the show, but. But it's like, it's like, it's what's so interesting is like, I feel like when we were filming, Dylan, like, what's so relatable about it is like I feel like we just like so with the second you meet someone and they start telling you their story, you're like, oh, like this could be me so easily.

Like it would be so easy. If I owned a house, I know I would get into a neighbor's speed at some point, you know? Like, and you're just like it's sort of. Yeah. If you ever had any neighbor disputes in your life that informed this show or any, any, any, any like disputes with neighbors that come to mind? And if so, how did you resolve them or did you not resolve them? Ironically, we actually had a neighbor dispute while we were editing the show because we were, we edited this show in our, um, at the gummy films office in Dumbo, um, which is the production company run by Rachel Walden, who's like one of the producers on the show. And she had us editing out of there. And consistently at like 2.30, um, this DJ would come in next door and basically practice his sets for like six hours straight. And it was,

like it was at first it was like this is untenable like this is incredible like we couldn't hear through our headphones well first of all like ironically again harrison and i are like sort of conflict diverse and it's kind of you know in our you know i would say it's it's a part of our you know uh personality and so we were like oh we don't want to be a you know a fucking narc going over there and like down his music and we were like realizing we were like falling into the same chapter like well maybe we should call the landlord and be like little rat So it's like we found ourselves, you know, acting in such like strange and, you know, embarrassing ways. And then we finally just decide to not say anything and just kind of exist with it.

And then it actually became kind of a nice thing. We were sort of editing along to it. And we just sort of adapted and it was fine and the guy's awesome and, you know, whatever. Right. That's what you should do if your neighbors do. It's just like, don't do any. Just accept, just bend over and accept it. Yeah.

Don't get into it. because it's not worth it, you know? You know, it's funny because, like, Dylan was saying we're very conflict-diverse. And, like, my mom, when she watched the pilot episode when we made it, my parents are divorced. And she was, like, sort of, like, her takeaway from it, which I didn't even think about. But, like, is that, like, being in the middle of these disputes is truly, like, being, like, a child in the middle of a divorce. Because you're just going back and forth between two people that have. that are basically saying the worst things about each other and that are giving you totally different

perspective of a singular event. And so after it's just like I wasn't thinking about that. But like it is it that has given the project more meaning for me and and has made me think about like, yeah, I'm very conflict diverse. I think it comes from that. But like just being in the middle of these is is it's psychotic. I know. And like I similar to you guys, like I feel like I have ever.

conflict avoidant personality as well, which is why this show is fascinating to me, because when I see other people who live their lives in a way that is like 1,000% designed to create and foment as much conflict as possible over the smallest, but most indescribably minute things, it's fascinating to me. And I can't help but think that property and property rights as like, Chris and I were talking about this before you guys got on the show. And it's just like, the right to own property in America basically is America.

This is if you're middle class, this is your ticket to the show. This is like, for the most part, the wealth that you will accrue over your life and pass on to your kids is through your home. Every man a king and every man's house, his castle.

And you think that like, okay, that provides you a kind of freedom and security. However, with neighbors, and with owning property, the behavior of one affects the value of everyone around them. So it creates the situation where it's just like every day is a Mexican standoff. So it's just like the freedom that you think that you have is a direct threat.

Outside the bounds of like, I don't know, conventional behavior or lawn maintenance, your freedom is a direct threat to the wealth of everyone around you. And I think like, you know, Harrison, you said like, you could easily imagine becoming someone like this. I think that's totally true. And I think like whether you, even if you are, you know, seek to avoid something like that, property ownership as, as practice in this country, is a system that breathes shit like this. Yeah, because it and like, I think that's what's almost so frustrating too about like when people, uh, online or, or people are always like, well, why don't they just like move? Like, why don't you just move? But it's like, dude, like, that's all they

have. That's like what most people's money is just invested in this little rock that they live in and it's like, why would you yeah, there's like honestly when I watch the show. They can't move because if they sell the house they're going to lose 100 grand because their fucking neighbors raising

goats in the front yard. Exactly. And it's like it's honestly weirdly, it's a controversial take, but there's something totally commendable about the way that people are, you know, I don't know if it's a good thing. But like, when I rewatch the show, I'm like, you know, there's something that is,

um, you know, brave and, and, you know, again, conflict of averse person, Dylan, you said it. We're kind of adverse. There's something that's thrilling about seeing someone just be like, fuck it, no, like conflict. Like, I'm protecting this. This is mine. Like, it is. There's something commendable about it. I, especially in the second episode, the gentleman who was starting a farm on his suburban piece of property to the detriment of the home value of his retiring neighbors. Despite this fact,

this man having, I would say some fairly odious and obnoxious personality traits, I couldn't help but by the end of the episode feel slightly on his side, just in the sense of, again, as well as saying, this is what I have, this is my house.

Why shouldn't I use this land like land is meant to be used to, on my own property, raise some animals that I am planning to use for sustenance, for permanent survival, even as bird brain as that idea might be. At the end, I'm kind of like, you know what? If property is all we have in terms of freedom in this country, why shouldn't this guy have the freedom to do this thing, even if it affects the property values of people around

him? You got a little while it was on his side, you know? Totally. I mean, that's like, that's like how we cast the show is like me and Harrison also like when Harley Shaw, who basically ran the casting team and my sister, Vina Redford, who was like worked underneath her and was a producer on the show, like when they would find stories, they like, you know, it was, they would bring us both sides.

And then we had to basically assess like, oh, can we see where both of them are coming from? And can we kind of like empathize with both of them? And I think that was like if we couldn't and if one was so clearly in the wrong, we just wouldn't go with that story. Like it was like we we we had to honestly be like you know I kind of get why Trevor wants a farm like that kind of is sick he wants to like build a farm and like homestead his his zone and also understand why like Bill and Bruce who like worked all their life as like work at the Chrysler plant that's like shutting down now and are managed to get out and retire and buy a home totally understand why they want to defend their zone too you know so that was like that's sort of like one of the bread and butter elements of like casting this whole thing I see where Chris is coming from it had the opposite effect on me because... Really? I believe there is nobody I'm sympathetic to this show.

And I feel that it made me want homeowners, for instance, if they wanted to farm, I think they should be sent to the countryside to some sort of collective agricultural. Watching the show made me a Maoist, is what I'm saying. I don't think anyone should be allowed to own property. I think the state should own all of it. And these people should be put to work in some way, productive. Well, it's interesting. It's like if there is no private property...

I think that there's... there's just never a world that these wouldn't exist. I think even if, you know what I mean? Like, even if it's not yours, you know, like, eventually you'd be like, hey, can you just give me some space, buddy? Like, I just, you know, always fucking things up for everyone. No matter what system or economic or political system you live under.

Yeah. Another element that I wanted to tease out here that I was talking to Chris about leading into the, while we're waiting for you guys, a fascinating element of like, I'm talking about the first three episodes. In all of these disputes, you think that they eventually end up

in some kind of mediation or civil court. And you would think this is a fairly simple matter. Like, you just look at the deed, like, where is the property line? Can you have a fence on this property or not? Like, can you have, you know, feed these cats or whatever? You think that like, because property rights are so important, like you'd think there would be a way to adjudicate these disputes.

The thing I found hilarious and fascinating in every one of these episodes, is that there is absolutely no resolution reached at the end of any of this. And we tried, let me just say, as filmmakers, all you want is he's an ending. Yeah, just a-oh-my-God. Oh, on top. Yeah. Trying to get those guys to play D&D together.

It's like we tried so hard to get them to play D&D together. And then at one point they were like, dude, I don't like him. He has a gate in the road. Like, I'm not going to. Play D&D together with like, you know, so it is like interesting and, you know, totally frustrating. I mean, it's funny, like, even like when we filmed people like getting surveys, it's like there's all these different companies that do the surveys. And then two different companies can do the same survey and get a totally different result. And it's like, why isn't there like just there should be just like one government like this is the survey, you know?

There was a guy, there was a surveyor who was like, yeah, man, I mean, it can be up to like a foot off in either direction. I'm like, then what the fuck are you doing? Like, what is this? This is a made up. The tripod with like the laser site that I see surveyed guys. What's that for? Dude, I don't. I don't fucking know.

We filmed, we filmed us in, I think it's episode three that just happened. But anyway, we filmed like a, these guys. doing a survey on those Victoria and Melissa's property. And it was like we have filmed for like fucking, I think it was like eight hours. Like just filming these guys with little lasers and walking around the block and like doing all this shit. And like it was totally confusing. And they were,

it's honestly kind of interesting because they were like pointing to shit that you pass in your daily life. You wouldn't even think is anything. But you, if you know what you're looking for, you can start seeing signs of like, uh, you know, little mark on the.

ground that's like it's like a little metal dot in the ground that's been there for the last like a hundred years that is actually means a lot and but all that to say that it was totally confusing and it didn't help anything whatsoever it just made everything worse yeah and like sometimes be like oh oh oh oh oh oh the little mark got moved i guess that's just the word you i guess it's just we're going to have to base it there now and it's like what it's a hundred year old like metal mark got moved a foot and now that's just the new property line. it's like what is going on. I think it's fascinating to hear that like you were you were desperately seeking a satisfying

resolution to every one of these disputes because like, you know, just narratively. However, I think it's like it's such a like beautiful and perfect accident that you were unable to achieve that because I think both comedically and narratively, it is so sadist for like this like existential portrait of just zero resolution to these problems and just existing in this perpetual state of grievance and anxiety I thought was so. So, like to me, narratively satisfying. And I'll just give you an example from the first episode, the Montana people, the D&D players that you tried to play D&D.

It's all over, can he have a gate on this property that prevents the horses from wandering around the property? Like I said, all of these disputes are so Byzantine and like, hard to understand. When they bring in the Montana mediator, that guy was like, I was like, this can't be real. This dude pulls up on a hog. He's got sunglasses. He looks like one of the coolest motherfuckers I've ever seen. They have this mediation just outdoors on like the great plane,

you know, the great planes of Montana. He's leaning on the hog, standing in between these two sets of people. And he's like, all right, this is the mediation. They just start yelling at each other.

There's nothing as mediated. No resettlement is reached by either side. And then he's just like, well, my work here is done. Gets on the motorcycle, drives away. It was so just like perfect.

It was like, you could not script something that funny. and that real. Yeah. Yeah. Just mediation in general. I mean, really like after the show was done,

we were like, man, like should we just somehow start a nonprofit that actually help? Like, there needs to be, I mean, I feel like eventually we will because I think there does need to be a way of helping these situations,

you know, because like a key Solomon figure whose authority will be respected. Right. Also just in the first three episodes, the types of mediation we get all feel perfectly emblematic. There's the, as we'll describe, the motorcycle mediator who seems like a, a last remnant of like an Old West bounty system where, you know, you get paid per mediation.

If you deliver a mediation. It seems like a kind of Taylor Sheridan. Like, Taylor Sheridan should do a TV series about that guy. Country mediator. Yeah. And the second one, they go on Judge Judy, TV mediation. And I think it's in the third one that you have the mediator whose side gig is selling really expensive firearms.

I was laughing so hard in the third episode where you see one of these people go to buy a gun and then like later the guy who's mediating her property to their neighbor is like, I also sell guns on the side and it was like the very guy she's buying a fucking handgun

from to protect her from her insane neighbor. You know what? Now that we brought it up, that's another thread that I found was fascinating in this show in terms of like a particular kind of American psychosis. How did you guys view interact with and how do you guys read the the the through line of guns on your on this show. Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think every I think almost every subject we filmed with had a gun,

I think. Yeah. And I think it felt oftentimes like it was just this like heavy sort of object that they didn't really know what exactly to do it, but they had it. And they and they could use it if they needed to. But like, it felt oftentimes just like sort of a prop. It really, and we actually stopped filming those moments where they showed us their gun because it was so ubiquitous

and kind of got sort of boring. Because it was just sort of like, oh yeah, you have a gun too. Okay, cool. And yeah, you might, you know, use it if things get crazy. But it was like, it really was like both a comfort and also just this like theatrical prop. They'd bring out and be like, well, you know, if things get really bad, I have my gun. And then we're like,

okay, cool. Yeah. Like, for sure I did. Well, in the second episode, the front lawn farmer at one point, chilling off his gun says, an armed society is a polite society. And a lot of people made disagree with that, but like, I think that's true. Like, your existence is the clearest refutation of the idea that an armed society is a polite one. Like, it would seem to me that, like, having a gun enables the absolute unlimited swinish rudeness amongst the people who cling to them, to quote, Obama or Hillary Clinton. I forget who it was. But another major throughline in the show that I was fascinated with is pets and animals. What do you guys make of the fact that like pets and animals

seem to be the genesis of a lot of these disputes? Like what does it say to you about the American relationship to pets? Such a good question. It's a good question. They're all disgusting. I think we can all agree on that. It's a crying to own an animal. Yeah. You should. You know. They have full agency. They should be let free to live their lives fully. Yeah. It's a very easy thing to get in a, I mean, also granted, Trevor really was an extreme example of what owning pets means.

You know, like, yeah, I mean, he was also bringing in, you know, animals that like were just, you know, I don't know if they, if they should be on someone's front lawn. You know, I have no idea. But yeah, pets are, you know, it's just, it's a, just a classic fucking problem that, like, is everywhere. And I think we were also excited about, I think Jean, her story is exciting too, because there's a lot of people that love cats. And there's a lot of cat ladies in our country. And so I think it's nice to, like, with some of these disputes, kind of hang our hat on something that people are familiar with. And so, I don't know, that was something that was exciting, I think. Yeah.

and they kind of like end up becoming proxies obviously for the for the neighbor like it's way easier to try to like you know control and litigate the actions of a cat than it is to try to like do that to the actual person who lives next door so it's like there are these kind of extensions that are really easy to sort of it's just like yeah to like manage and want to control and you know want to kind of have yeah like be able to decide what's right and what's wrong because it's a pet it's not the human who actually live. lives in the house. And out of all your subjects, like, again, I need to stress, like, the show is amazing. It is unbelievably funny and draw-dropping. And like you said, like what starts as a property dispute becomes a window into the, like, unbelievably funny personalities that you guys are highlighting. You're documenting here. And each of them is weird in such individually strange and idiosyncratic ways. But I'm wondering, out of all the time you spent with these people, do you see a common denominator in all of your subjects? Or are they unique? And they're all sort of original to themselves. That's a good question. Well, I think like a common denominator could

just be that, again, I think why I was saying that there's something commendable about everyone in our show is that there is a similar passion that they all have to protect something that they want to protect. And I think that like there is a similar intent. And I think that like there is a similar intensity to, I think, like, almost all of our subjects and a similar willingness to engage in conflict that, I don't know, you know, like, and I don't know what that is necessarily, but like, there is like a similar, there's a similar intensity to the way that a lot of these people speak, you know? What do you think, Dylan?

No, I think you're right. Like, on, there's the, like, on a personal level, I, like, wish I was more confrontation and kind of sort of like kind of admire how they're just willing to go so hard and like unafraid of saying exactly what they think and getting into and fighting for what they want. There's like part of me that like feels just sort of generally like cocked by the world and feel like it would be great to like be more willing to like handle conflict. But I also think that like something that we did find across all the stories is that like they were all of the neighbors were only like a fraction or one move of separation from actually

being so similar and like sharing especially like politically you know having all the same frustrations around like how expensive the cost of living is healthcare stuff like it was consistently like they actually fundamentally on like material level were always almost in alignment on like what they what was pissing them off so much But then it can't, you know, then how it played out in terms of their interpersonal dynamics and the actual, you know, issue at hand. Things just have gone awry. But that was like, it was both the kind of most tragic thing, but also in some ways, something slightly optimistic was like a lot of these people are frustrated about the same things. It's just like somewhere along the line, something misfired.

And now, you know, they've retreated to their worlds and it's very difficult to reconcile. Yeah. And you know what I'll add to that is like a material physical representation of that. Is that like weirdly if you watch some of the episodes, the neighbors are sometimes wearing almost the exact same thing. Harrison, I had the same fucking thought watching this show. Did you? Yeah, I swear to God. And like the thing I picked up on as like a common denominator is among the men specifically. is that like they were all wearing

Marvel DC or some sort of like Lord of their game. They all love superhero slub. And they're all wearing t-shirts of superhero movies. That's what they like. That's what they imagine themselves to be. And like this gets to like what I said earlier about this like, the common denominator being kind of be like

that everyone imagines themselves as the hero of the story. And they cannot conceive in their head as they're presenting their lives to a public audience that they would be thought of as a villain or in the wrong. And like, Dylan, to your point, like, this is something, you know, like, I, I totally empathize with you on is like, I, you know, as someone who's like neurotic or insecure or like always willing to be like, oh, am I being the asshole here? Yeah, totally. It is kind of like amazing to see people who have like are just unburdened with self-doubt entirely. Yeah.

Yeah. And you know what? Who's an amazing example of that is, is Mike Norton, who is the First Amendment auditor. I was just going to ask about, oh my God. I was just going to ask about my favorite characters on the show. Explain who Mike. Talk about superheroes.

There's like a neighbor's Marvel extended universe where I, you know, like he is kind of like, I don't know what kind of AI. I would love to see AI generated images of all them as superheroes. Well, okay, that was the next thing I was going to ask you about was Mike, the First Amendment auditor.

And he's in the first, episode of the show. And what's fascinating about him is that he is a totally unaffiliated third party to the neighbor dispute that you are documenting, and he inserts himself in the middle of it, and he is just like an agent of chaos. So please

describe what, when he's described himself as a First Amendment auditor, that was when I was screaming at my TV. What? So please describe, who is Mike? And what is his process of auditing the First Amendment? One thing I'll say, is that I just thought was like so funny. It's like Ronnie Ronald Bronstein who's one of our producers

who is like so amazing. Just just an ingenious. He wrote a chums in Marty Supreme. Yes, he's amazing. And he was like just an incredible collaborator on this project. But when he watched that episode, he was like, wow, it's so relatable

because it's like, it's just like a friend that's trying to help that's not helping at all. And when we saw it as that, it was like there was something so absurdly funny and like dark about the whole situation. But, you know, a First Amendment auditor is just someone who's these guys and these people are just basically pressure testing the rights and laws that our country puts down. You know, and. But like, by being as annoying as possible in public and filming everyone and everything. Well, yeah, totally.

And I think like from Mike's point of view, His justification is like, I am really focused on humiliating police officers on my YouTube channel. And the way that I do that, the way that I, that's what I want to do. And the way that I do that is by, it's a means to an end. It's not pretty, but I get citizens really riled up. And eventually, of course, they're going to call the police. And then that's when I really shine.

That's when I really kick in the gear. And his whole thing is like, I know these laws, better than you do, bud. So anything you throw at me, I'll basically tell you you're wrong. You don't know the law. And so like that's really his, you know, and I think all these auditors have different, you know, tactics or goals. But he's, he just wants to get police officers on camera and humiliate them for not understanding, you know, the First Amendment or, or filming rights. The big one is that you don't have to show your ID. That's like his main, his main thing. Oh, he loves that. And, you know, it's, it's amazing to watch Mike's videos because once you start watching enough of them, like, I feel like we started seeing it as like Mike is like a spider and he's spinning a web.

And he's just waiting for someone to walk into the web. And they don't know what is. They just have no idea. No idea. What kind of spider has spun that web? They just don't. And you see what the videos are so, I mean, they're, they're laughing. They're absolutely insane, but like, it is very, there's something really funny about people just not knowing what they're in for when they interact, especially police, when they interact with Mike.

Like, they were never trained in the police force to interact with a guy like this. They just, they should have a class on it, honestly, right? Like, do you run into a guy like Mike, right? Yeah, but he is also someone who has just crazy as the thing. that he does is he, there is something inspiring about how he just sees through the zeros and ones of our government and the laws and he just will not back down. And he just sees things totally differently than anyone else. And there's something just so exciting about that where he just really knows his rights, you know? Yeah, when we like, we like met him at his hotel and we were

talking to him in the parking a lot. And he was like, oh yeah, like, I'm basically staying in my a hotel for free because I told him in a state of Florida you like, you know, if you stay in a hotel room for a certain amount of time, like you're allowed to stay there. And he was like, I'm not sure if that's exactly that. He's like, he's like every, everywhere he's like one weird trick guy. And his one weird trick is like just being able to push past any point past discomfort, social propriety, politeness to like to prosecute his point of view or stand on some bizarre or like some interpretation of the law. But you know what?

He's standing up for our rights because you don't have to kill a cop not your idea. You don't. Exactly. And there is, that's why, and you know, we ate at Jersey mics a lot while we are making this show. And when you go into Jersey mics,

the classic option is do you want this Mike's way? And so when after, you know, we just have carried with us at this point that there's always the option when you're in our country to go Mike's way. Yeah. You have the option. You don't have to.

You know, if you're not feeling up to it that you don't have to. That's totally fun. You could always go Mike's way, yeah. Yeah, we've decided we've been going Mike's way with the TSA photo situation. Oh, yeah. Everyone, they don't, you don't need to get your photo taken. Go Mike's way and say absolutely not. I will not have my photo.

You don't have to have your photo. I mean, once again, like, stupid sheeple that I am. I'm just in line. I'm like, okay, I'll look in the camera. even though this was not something that existed like a couple years ago. Right. But it is so inconvenient to not take your photo and it takes no more time, but you've gone Mike's way and there's something actionable about that.

Yeah. Yeah, but the thing is too, it's like with the airport photo thing is like, I think someone told me recently, it's like, well, if you actually say that you don't want your photo taking, you're added to a new database that is basically like, these are the people that didn't want their photo. There is no way out. There is no way out. Look, I really don't want to give away too much about the show or, like, you know, like, spoil some of these, like, absolute gems for anyone who hasn't watched it. But just real quick, just like, I have to show two of my favorite moments, just random moments from the show. And one of them was from episode two, the nemesis of the front yard lawn, the farm guy, sort of like, senior

citizen gay couple. He reminded me of the Rip Taylor, the guy who throws confetti people, he reminded me of Rip Taylor a lot. Randomly, the scene where he was like, I've started taking self-defense classes. And it's just an old guy karate class where it's just him and another old man like, he was teaching him how to kick someone

in the balls or choke them. I was just, I it's just like these beautiful, beautiful little moments you captured. Or when the lady who goes on Judge Judy, she's trying to sell a script to Mel Gibson's producer

about the 18 missing years of Jesus's life and she's in a hotel room with her friend and her friend says if we could only get Indris Elba as Jesus we'd be great and she goes no I'd like to have a classical Jesus not a black woman what is it like for you as filmmakers

like when you just like you roll and then you capture something that's like beyond what you could have possibly imagined I mean I think Harrison and I like there are times where we'll look at each other and be like, oh my God, what are what just happened. But honestly, we are so engrossed. And, and we like fully drank the Kool-Aid of our subjects genuinely because we're also very

impressionable and like naive. We're just like right there with them. And we're like, yeah, I guess maybe, I don't know if you should do a, you know, maybe a classical Jesus is the right move. Like we're like so in it that we're just like, oh, yeah, but I don't know. You just elbow would actually be kind of cool. That actually might be even more of the move. You know, so it's like, we're like.

so in it and so like locked in with these subjects that like oftentimes we don't even know something is necessarily funny or even wild until we're in the edit. We're like, oh, wow, I didn't even like, I don't know. I don't know if if you felt that way Harrison, but I felt like. Yeah. Yeah. So locked in. Yeah, definitely. I mean, there's definitely like a handful of moments that were very funny to film. The karate scene definitely was like, we didn't go into it being like, this is going to be funny. But then obviously, yes, that there is funny. I mean, yeah, you're, you're totally right, though, Dylan. I feel like we are so deep into it oftentimes that we don't really know. It's like we're just collecting the ingredients that we think generally might make something that's compelling and good,

but we really don't know until we're, you know, making the cake, you know. It feels like we get to a point like we're stuck in an avalanche. We have no idea what is up and down. We're just like locked in this, like, world. It's like, I guess we're just here with these people and we're just along for the red. Yeah. As filmmakers, both in filming and editing this show, like, what was your guys, did you guys have a conscious

approach to like the style and look of this, like the montage that you guys use and the sometimes like psychedelic techniques that you are brought to bear on this? Did you have like something that you were going for, like a look or a vision for how this show would look? I will add an addendum to that.

You guys are doing something with a 360 degree camera here that I've never seen anyone do before and I would just like to ask specifically how you came on that style. That's some Harrison special sauce right there. That's my special sauce. I've been cooking for a long time. No, that the 360 camera stuff, I've been just so excited about. I think during COVID I had made, I made like a short video with some Craigslist actors. I forget. even how I even was getting excited about it, but I just was like, I had learned that you can manipulate and keyframe the camera angle after you shoot something. So you could just, what's amazing about 360 footage is it's just like a mound of clay, basically, you know? And Dylan and I are

you know, we come, we went to school for sculpture totally separately. And so there's something that is just unbelievable if you're a visual person. And also what's amazing about the 360 stuff is that you, if you're an indecisive director, you don't have to really make that many choices about where you want to put the camera. You just have to know where you want to place the camera and then you can mess with it afterwards. But I think there's just something that has always been totally thrilling about that

360 stuff. And I think what's exciting about it too is, is it's one of the formal things that we do in the show that heighten, that you're going to the subjectivity of the subjects. And I think that was like something that was important and cool. And I think that we, we used it frequently, but it only made it into the show at the times that it did because it just, that's the times that it felt right, you know? It just worked out that way. Yeah. And I think like, generally speaking, like, We were trying to, we kind of took some formal cues from, both from documentary filmmaking, but also from reality television. Because the two cameras set up and always shooting with two to three cameras is like a very familiar reality TV thing.

And also, you know, for production purposes, was designed that way to move really quickly and capture as much as possible. And so I feel like, you know, there were, we wanted the show to kind of hybridize between, you know, we had kind of a documentary production or way of thinking about how we were making the show, but then oftentimes would adopt like some more like reality TV like aesthetics or formal choices to kind of hit that like hybrid where like we have a lot of coverage. We can make a lot of edits. We can move things really fast. We're also like going deeper with our subjects and interested. Like we're always talking about like we would always look what's in the center of the frame

versus what's out of the frame. And oftentimes what was out of the frame is the thing we're always trying to like get at. And so I think like that sort of hybrid form is like something that we're really excited about and was really important. I think also I'll, what I'll add is that like Dylan and I have been making, um, all types of films using a lot of these same techniques. And I think it is a, it's both unintentional and intentional, you know, I mean, I think it is intentional.

But that, that this style just the form is the function. with the way that we shot the show. And I think it was important to us to make this thing feel like kinetic and fast and rough and raw because that's how it feels to be in these disputes and to be in the middle of these things. And I think the 360s...

And also like completely kind of disorienting. Yeah, totally. As we've discussed, like, there is no resolution to any of these disputes. And it's impossible to really say like who is in the right or who is in the wrong. Yeah. I think for we also just wanted a visual language that just felt like what it's like to watch stuff right now, which is like you're going from an iPhone video to watching your TV

to watching your laptop. You're cycling through all different types of video qualities. You know, it's all just like slop content. Like it's all just one big soup. And there's no like distinct, you know, zones anymore in terms of what a visual language should be. And so I think we wanted our show to feel like that. We wanted it to feel like we're a cycling through a cinematic, something will look cinematic, and then we'll be looking at a phone, and then we're looking at a GoPro, and then we're looking at a computer screen, you know?

What you were saying before, Dylan is really interesting in that, like, the disputes themselves mirror conspiracy theories, and, like, they feel like conspiracy theories in itself, like, not in a dramatic way. And I think, like, the form of our show, sometimes, I think it was very intentional that we want it to really feel like you're

going down all of these rabbit holes. And the have no control. And for the show to truly feel like... From the first episode, like, both of the people in this dispute are like 100% like QAnon people. And it's just like, I think it's fascinating what you say is that like the same, uh, the same way of viewing the world, um, over like, uh, are the, is the president of the United States, a pedophile satanic cannibal or not? Who can say, is filtered into like, are my neighbors filming me all the time? Has my neighbor enlisted every other neighbor in an elaborate conspiracy to like gangstock me into suicide or kill me. Yeah.

Yeah. And yeah. I mean, I think that kind of like parent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, man. All right.

Yeah. I mean, I feel like that kind of, you know, that that sort of like paranoid quality of like connecting the dots, um, I think is also a part of our editing language. Like we, we leave certain gaps in cut, we cut things a little short. shorter than most people do when we're making edits. Like even sometimes the audio, we like jump cut a little bit or we like cut out parts so that we can, we're kind of skipping along the surface. And I think that kind of feeling of like you're just going from little note of information to the next, the next, the next, the next. And that kind of like that sort of feeling is what it felt like to be a part of these, you know, conflicts and the way that you would draw connections between these like truncated pieces of information. Right. Like that's how it feels to when you're talking to somebody in one of these things. It is very realistic.

Absolutely. It isn't, yeah. I think we should leave it there for the show for today. Dylan Redford, Harrison Fisherman. I want to thank you guys both so much for a fantastic TV show. Like I said, I've seen the first three episodes. I can't wait to see the rest of them. The show is hilarious, fascinating, hypnotic, and terrifying all at once.

And I will leave us with this thought. as we were having this discussion, I thought to the Bushido Code, the Samurai Code, produced by feudal Japan as a reflection of that country, that society, that era in history. The Bushido Code implores a samurai that one must meditate upon one's death

every moment of every day. And I would say, an analog for contemporary American society is that one must imagine oneself in an argument at least once a day, at every moment of your day. Whether you win, or lose, no one will win or lose,

but one must imagine oneself in an argument and meditate upon it daily. Amen, brother. Dude, I love that. Amen to that. Thank you for having us on. Dude, thank you so much. This is too much fun. I was like, we could go for another two hours. Can we do another? Can we keep going? Come on.

I mean, I mean, I, I can't wait to see what you guys do next. Once again, Harrison Fishman, Dylan Redford. The show is Neighbors. It's on HBO. everybody please check it out. Thanks so much, man. Thank you guys. The show is amazing.