Chapo Trap House - Bonus: This is Sus 8 – Oz

Episode Date: May 29, 2020

Felix and Matt discuss the groundbreaking HBO drama “Oz”

Everybody welcome to week eight of this is us This week is a bit of a departure more than usual because This is our first non-network show that we are watching and I'm actually surprised it was This one was our first on network show. I thought it was gonna be Ray Donovan would be the first premium cable show We watch but this was kind of Matt's idea Uh, we have Matt Crispin on talk about Oz Matt. Hello. Hello. This is um, so this is like I think one of the only things I've watched that I have like bad memories of like I hated it when I watched it But now I like it like yeah, yeah, like when I was I think it was because I watched it in the mid early

Mid-2000s and it was like I'd already seen sopranos and I was just I saw this and I was like this fucking sucks because it's not Sopranos, it's not like prestige really. It's an FX show and I expected a prestige show and got an FX show But now knowing what I know now what I watch it. I'm like this fucking rocks They're willing to go buck wild and what's most exciting about Oz is cuz so Oz came out in 1997 two years before the Sopranos and It was at a time when television had been around long enough that there was going to be this move to make it a more substantial Genre like a more substantial art form than it had been TV shows weren't just going to be about The thing that they were on the surface, you know, like cop shows are just before that cop shows were about cops

doctor shows are about doctors and It was in the mid 90s when people said well shows should actually be about more than that, you know They should try to just to go higher because we're not reading books anymore. That's it's gay so give us something more Meteor in our television diet and no one really knew how to do that at first and Tom Fontana Who created a Oz and one of the co-creators of homicide? Which was another one of those tweener shows in the mid 90s that like it was in many ways a traditional cop show

It was it was case of the week It didn't have like the big building narratives but it also had a lot of stuff especially visually and And narratively that was reaching for higher ground and so Tom Fontana decides I'm gonna go and I'm gonna make a real show and nobody knew what a good show was nobody knew what a show that was Trying to be about more than its subject matter looked like and I think what I really realized is that we all of these are visual mediums of storytelling television and film there their narratives like structures and their narrative

Elements are basically borrowed from the narrative art forms. We had before which are mainly novels and and theater and Before the Sopranos came along with the idea of well, let's turn novels into tea. What's turned TV shows into novels? Oz came along first and said let's turn TV shows into theater and It turns out over time people have realized now theater is pretty Dorky. No, thank you. I would prefer a novelty novel shows. So now, yeah Oz became this sort of embarrassing Hybrid creature this sort of evolutionary dead end that we all just sort of are embarrassed even remember

But it was as much an attempt to create a new type of show as the Sopranos was. Yeah, and I The thing that I noticed a lot when I was watching this like obviously first and foremost You're like Fontana is such a playwright because there's so many things in here. They're just so like theater dork They're so Broadway like I mean first and foremost the character Augustus Hills Terrible monologues. That's so bad. I wrote down like five I was just dying. I watched the show and I do not remember half of these amazing Word play ass shit. It's like, you know, they were just high-fiving when they wrote that shit down Oh, you know Fontana was freaking out. It was doing backflips when he wrote this but

The other thing that struck out to me. I mean we watched two episodes We're probably only gonna get through one now that I think about it judging at the rate that we go at but that's good Because well, but another one in the bank for the next time we do this It was how similar it was to this first season as apparatus because it they both have this thing of like Well, what the fuck kind of thing is this what the fuck kind of show is this? What are how are we how are we going to explore the characters? Ah, this comes off as more clumsy. It's more TV-like Then even the first season of the sparrows, which I think is the first season of the parameters

I suggest everyone go back and watch it because it's so different from what we got But they were similar in that they were very it was like very Pubescent prestige TV very awkward and sort of growing into its own. Yeah Um, so this first episode of Oz. I actually there's a lot. I actually liked about this So I'll just jump right in this this first episode of the first season It begins with Tim McManus who's sort of our liberal cut character Oh, yeah, one of the most important characters in Oz. He's the guy who invented emerald city, which is the sort of Open open office designed prison with

Cubicles and shit like this where prisoners of many different races and gangs and and types of crime Cohabitate and it's supposed to prove McManus's theories about rehabilitation, which is amazing because as you watch the show about Ten murders happen every episode It would be pretty quickly disproven But he has a good heart. So it shows him arguing with Leo Glenn who is the warden of Oswald State Petit Hedgery where emerald city is in and They're they're having like they're sort of cuck versus crime and punishment arguments that they have throughout Almost every episode where McManus is like we should let them get degrees and Leo Glenn is like

We should kill them Next we have During all this It is a terrible Augusta cell monologue Augusta cells the character in the wheelchair who they literally have spin around like hamster wheels in like separate monologues that aren't alluded to in the action outside of the reality of the show and interspersed with that we have Edie Falco's character giving orientation to the cast characters who will come to dominate this show for the

run of the series such as Louis El Verado and the king of the beta cucks Beecher. Oh, yeah, so She is giving sponsors to these new prisoners There's a sort of one-off character for the first season groves who killed and ate his parents He gets Bob ribadot who's sort of an old man who we find out more about in later seasons

Beecher gets Dino Ortolani who seems to be a very hot-headed mobster who almost immediately is like, yeah, fuck off you'll cook We Right after Ortolani sends him off. We sort of see the Beecher is easily cowed sort of a rich kid. He shouldn't be here And that Dino Ortolani is going to collect call his family Uh, we are then taken to the cafeteria where is this character named poet? I remember him being named poet. I think he's literally I think he's just called poet. Yeah Remember the black gang in prison who just does like

Really bad slam poetry. He's doing for the entire prison and they love it. They can't get enough of it They're cheering for him. It's the most insane shit I've ever seen Yes, suddenly Leo Glenn During all this like we get a flashback explaining why Beecher is in prison He was drunk driving and killed a child in a very comical way. Like I love the flashbacks. Oh, they're so ridiculously Lurid is like he might as well have they might as well have animated like pink elephants swimming Swim flying around his head or something or like he should have been pulled while he's he's swerving around the street in this car

He might as well have been taking poles from it a jar with three X's on it My favorite part of the show they always whenever they introduce a new prisoner They do like I'd say it's like blue and white flashbacks Like the coloring of the scenes is very weird to show why they're in prison like for Ortolani It shows him killing some mobster for or nearly killing some mobster That comes into play later for Beecher shows him drunk driving But they're always like very almost slapstick and I wondered how on purpose disconcerting and funny and weird They were supposed to be or if it was just like kind of bad directing in low budget

But definitely it reminds me of the homicide house style where you want a lot of zooming Canted angles you want the camera to be moving a lot. You want to you want to simulate the feeling of yeah Emotional distress. Yes. Yes Um, so during this scene with everyone's in the cafeteria cheering on this bad slam poetry Warden Glenn comes into the cafeteria and announces that cigarettes are banned from the prison causing this sort of mini riot So next we have headcount, which is where they you know make sure everyone's in the prison Everyone's in their cells at a busy who will become a big character later a very large Nigerian gangster

He is Beecher's cellmate. He's rifling through his shit and he Intimidates Beecher when Beecher goes to call him out and he implies he's gonna rape him Shiliger this is sort of imposing white man played by What's this guy's name JK Simmons JK Simmons one of the great character actors. Yeah, what an Oscar for whiplash a master He he He notices this he makes ice with Beecher. He's like hey ask to get transferred Just don't like make him think he snitch, but you know, it's hard out here like just protect yourself

so the next day when Intimidate Beecher again Shiliger intercedes gonna move to his bunk they move in together But then we learned that Verde Shiliger is just gonna rape Beecher that he's a Nazi and he's just gonna rape him and brand him We get a particularly awful Augustus Hill model during the scene where he goes they call it the penal system Nah, I think it's called the penis system Yeah, and that was what I do. Oh, this shows way better than I remember this show rocks because that's interspersed with like a Violent rape scene. Yes. It's so late 90s. Yeah, just pure shock value like we could do this now. This is awesome

Yeah, no one's gonna stop us. This is that's what I love about the show It's like you can tell how excited these guys who worked on network TV were to just I don't think there's a single episode Without a violent rape like mal on mal rape. It's a currency. Oh, yeah So the guards the next morning the guards find drugs is a dirtbag cell and McManus and Leo have this liberal another liberal versus crime upon it crime and punishment argument over drugs There's a staff meeting. They will go over their agenda, which includes the smoking band. They discussed the new coming prisoner Karim Sayid who will be huge character They use very curious phrasing in this one. I was wondering if you notice this when they're like, well, this is like

This is a big deal because say it's a very Well-known political activist and he blew up a white owned warehouse. Yes a white owned warehouse That was really weird phrase. I'm glad you also caught that. I just I've never heard that said in contemporary times It's weird. They wanted to have him do something of a political nature But you know, they wanted him to be relatively sympathetic So I guess they're like, well, what could he have done? We don't want to do any violent crime And also, yeah, this whole deal is he's not violent. So Well, you could do some property violence, but how do we indicate that it's

That it's politically Oriented it's a white owned warehouse. Yeah, it was just such a weird for like, no, this is the white business warehouse Yeah, I mean, I always scanned the state that Oz was it like I always scanned Oz as being in Massachusetts for some reason They never say this but that's how I'll always how I scan this. So that is maybe something someone in Massachusetts That's true. I think Tom Fontana is actually a Was a Massachusetts. No, he's from Buffalo shit. Oh shit. I mean, it could it could be like Desolate Western New York too. Yes, that's for sure

Prisons up there. Yeah, but All right, so Sayid shows up he has a sayid after intake has a meeting with Leo Glenn and McManus. He has a flare-up with Glenn Glenn is black. I want to point out they have sort of like a huge tension between each other Sayid is a big deal for the prison because he's

Very fearless and very respected by all the black Muslim inmates like they instantly instantly congregate around him Big man is to prove the conjugal for Dina or to Lonnie Sayid preaches to the Muslims banning smoking drugs and gay sex for the gang Siding the Muslims are confronted by Jefferson Keen's black gang instead of escalating this confrontation Even when he's taunted Sayid has one of his Muslim charges hit him in the mouth multiple times in front of Jefferson Keen intimidating them away Rhino Riley who is the Irish gangster that Dino or to Lonnie shot that got him in Oz is coming to the jail

The boss of the Italians, you know, she better tells Dino. He can't kill him without his permission O'Reilly shows up in the prison. He goes to Keen who works in the kitchen asking him to whack or to Lonnie He is told that they don't hit mobsters in the prison O'Reilly goes up the chain to a crooked guard that his brother knows the guard tells O'Reilly not to worry about Dino Because Dino seems to be on a path of self-destruction And this is true because Dino's shown as a very angry very violent character and we see this because in our next team Dino graphically beats the shit out of a gay inmate who turns out to be Jefferson Keen's brother and The hospital or to Lonnie gets fixed up by Dr. Gloria Nathan and hits on her

That becomes a rip. That's a very recurring theme in the show is poor dr. Nathan. I Dr. Nathan I love her, but it's like I love all the guys who are like, yeah, I've been sentenced to 500 years Can I fuck you? And it weren't like it works at one point. It literally works once it's persisted That was when I saw that happen was that season five when O'Reilly fucks Nathan. Yep. Yeah I was like look he has to be the biggest pimp of all time. Of course. It's like look I don't yet Do I have a job? Yes In the garment factory in the prison that I've been for the rest of my life to die in

Yeah, you have to be the big I mean sometimes women just like want to fuck a desolate man Sometimes I'm a guy with a poor mattress You're forgetting though that O'Reilly over the course of the show by that point. He murdered her rapist Yes, and right had her husband murdered O'Reilly is like the best character on Oz because he does the most Ridiculous shit, but no one ever really gets mad at him. No, he's nice Yeah, there's a tip. There's a basic geniality to him. I love I love O'Reilly The fact he's played by Dean Winter helps a lot of that because he doesn't especially since I could only think of him as Dennis Duffy now

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Dean Winter is he's um, I don't know. It's hard to hate him Even if he kills your husband, it's true and he's in prison forever You're still gonna want to fuck him. He's got that cute Irish smirk. You can't yeah, I'd say no to him. Yeah Um, Dino is brought to McManus McManus explains his Idiot cuck liberal worldview, you know, it turns out that Dino beat the shit out of Billy Keen the gay and mate for making a pass at him and McManus is like, oh, yeah, well, you're homophobic I'm gonna make you work in the AIDS ward and it's the perfect idiotic liberal like the first

That's the 90s shit man. Yeah, that was the decade of white man's burdened. Have you ever seen that movie? Yes, of course, one of my favorite I'm obsessed with movies like that where it's like people in the 90s Love the idea of like a white guy and a black guy switching places. Yeah, because the whole thought was like we were at the end of history Yes, all that was left was like working out the kinks and like and dealing with these legacies of the past Arrow when things were bad before we solve them at the at the at the systemic level And so that means all you needed to do is give people just one day and the other person's shoes ever last style and they would Realize. Oh, I'm not racist anymore. See that's okay. That's interesting That's I'm glad you brought it up the end of history style 90s drama

That's what I like about us the thing that age better than all these other things It's not end of history like there's a very like game view of the future throughout it Like you remember it's like a little thing But you remember when they're manufacturing the clothes in the prison and features like so do we make our own uniforms and ribados like no These like oh, we buy our uniforms in Taiwan. Are you kidding me? Yeah, we're just like being exploited to sell these two fashion houses Yeah, like the political world of it's like not awful like it does Correctly presage a lot of things that happen

It does presage like the destruction of the supply chain and the hollowing out of the middle class of America like it's actually ages a lot better than supposedly better shows and I I Mean like and to the show is correct Like when I first saw that I was like that's such a stupid punishment Like you're gonna say you're gonna punish these poor age patients by sending this like violent Bigoted grease ball to work with them in their last days and then put that in the next scene Or like two seas later dr. Nathan is like, why did you do this? He's a terrible violet homophobe

And it's like oh learn. Yeah, and it does like the first time I want to show that I was like I thought that Fontana just wanted us to only like McManus and now it's like Oh, no McManus is like an idiot and the show is like he's his delusional is the crime and punishment conservatives like his view of the world Is as incomplete and stupid. Yeah, but I guess he thinks you could take something as horrifying as mass incarceration and Make it humane Even though none of the other systems that these people spend the rest of their lives in including the greater prison are Even coming close to that like the fact that you have like an hour of story time and glass booths instead of instead of

jail Cells that's not gonna do anything. That's no saying to think it would make man. It shows the In the the failures of reformism versus structural upheaval. Yeah No, he's the ultimate impotent technocrat who just he just can't get the the formula to work And he can't understand this because he doesn't have the right integers He can't it can't be made to work no matter what he does. Uh, yeah. Yeah, it's so before like before that Dino bitches To Nino Shabata who's the boss and the boss of all Italians in the prison about the AIDS ward

You know tells Dino that he has to be less impulsive and angry and the Italians run the prison because of their intelligence Which I highly doubt but yeah, yeah, dr. Nathan tells McManus that Dino is a terrible addition to the AIDS ward dr. Nathan Greatest doctor of all times just just giving Dino four milligrams of liquid out of an a day Where is this doctor? I love her. Yeah, seriously. Yeah McManus, this is the most unrealistic thing that happens in the entire series McManus successively asked dr. Nathan out after this Dr. Nathan is so fucking beautiful and he's a dime. She's perfect and McManus is just like hi

I do a terrible job Like not attractive. Oh god, he's hideous. He looks like Harry Kenny He that guy honestly him being like the lead in a show like this. That is another 90s Relic because nowadays they've made it so that they don't allow unattractive people on TV anymore Oh, even in the fancy stuff even though the stuff that's supposed to be good like every unjustified every hillbilly's extras teeth are perfect Having a guy be your lead guy who is like already his hair is on life support in episode one He just says like a pinch little rat face Just this angry little cuckman

Really unappealing in every way. Yeah, but dr. Nathan who's just beautiful She's like, yeah, I guess I guess I guess Or they're a crooked guard who's dealing heroin in the prison. That's the worst like Irish American scumbag who just Beats people to death. So Keen in the kitchen Keen and Ryan O'Reilly plot over killing Dino Verne vert Schilder goes to give Dino some lame-ass Nazi accommodation for maiming and nearly killing a gay black man And Dino is just like fuck you. Fuck you. Let go fuck yourself. He fucking Nazi loser for my own bigoted reasons

Just like fuck yourself Schilder Dino goes to work in the AIDS ward that day and almost has a movement with a patient Sanchez about how they're both parents but He then gets mad at Sanchez's implication that he got AIDS while sharing needles Using heroin that Dino sold wholesale on the streets years ago McManus is confronted by Ordo Lonnie and in turn cancels Ordo Lonnie's conjugal and turns it into a behind-glass family time Or Lonnie's family time is very tragic He wants his wife to behave as if he's already dead and make her life whole and new without him

But they're very much clearly still in love back in the AIDS ward Dino is tasked with bathing Sanchez after he took a fall Sanchez asked Dino to euthanize him Dino is confronted by O'Reilly in the bathroom and beats the living shit out of him. He destroys him Dino has a one-on-one fight in his one episode. He destroys Dino's bad ass. He is badass. Yeah, you think he'd be having a better time in jail No, he's a bad guy, but he's he has a really good record in there Dino euthanizes Sanchez with a pillow

He's thrown into the hole because it inmate see it He's sedated by dr. Nathan with the out event and then lit on fire by Johnny post ending his arc in the episode So I think I well that was only 25 minutes. I think we can do too. So what did you think of this first episode? Well one it ruled it fucking owns and you can see Just in one episode how how Fontana thought, okay, we're doing a show this So we're trying to do a show now that means something more than just what its subject is So this show this isn't just about this prison. It's about America and it's about what?

incarceration general and class race and it's everything how are we going to demonstrate that and There are different strategies that relate to different types of art and Sopranos for example because they went the novel route. They used a lot of dream sequences to try to evoke themes But here they just go direct address to the camera and tell us that it's actually the penis system And that when the shot right before Dino gets set on fire

He does a little thing to the audience saying he actually wanted to die So it's suicide. He killed himself because he wanted to die. So you don't have they fill in these gaps for you So you just get to watch it and have it explained to you And I really get why a lot of people think this is a terrible show because they think they flatter themselves now that we've had You know decades of this prestige TV concept to be reified into something in people's minds where no no I got to work for it, but they're not working for it that hard They're not working for it any harder really than hearing him just say sometimes people actually they want to kill themselves but they'll have other people do it and

You look at that and you're supposed to be horrified by the lack of subtlety But I'm sorry your shows that you watch where somebody looks at the duck comes across the screen or something It's not any more subtle. No, I love sopranos, but it's not a subtle show at all like those dream sequences I love them, but they like they very clearly hit Hit you over the head with like Tony has this anxiety He has this anxiety about his kids like there's a lot of Hominems like you know the scene where Tony takes the horse in the house Carmell is like you can't have your horse in the house And it's like it's like yeah, it's not

It's not any more subtle like I guess with Oz There's just no art to it like the art is the fact that Augustus Hill is like upside down in a magneto prison going Yes, sometimes a man will do anything to do anything and yeah It kind of sucks, but I like no this show this is maybe one of the only things from this era That I'm like this is way better there. I remember it. That's the thing. I was like 1560 when I watched this and I wanted That's the when you first start being able to like discern art and I think I was excited to be like no I can now identify why things are bad

And I was so quick to point out why this was bad But now it's like having watched so much bad art in my life. Yeah, and that are that people tell me is good I'm like no this fucking rocks. Yeah, it's just a different model Yeah, and and the thing is is that if you're if you're if you are trying to deceive yourself about what television is Yeah, what is it? It's fundamental like limitations You're going to look at us and be like, oh awful. No looking at the camera doing the spins cringy cringy dialogue but I am I much prefer that now a Kind of open-hearted. Hey, we're gonna try and put on a show here for you people

Without without trying to fit into something like everyone's mad at me because of what I've been saying about battle better Call Saul for the last, you know, a couple months because they all love that show It's the one show left on TV that everyone kind of kind of agree is still like still in the prestige lane is still solidly one of these elevated shows that is better than the rest of TV and I see it and it just seems so inert because it seems it's copying copies of copies because there's only one playbook and you look at Oz you're like Maybe Oz wasn't ideal, but that sensibility and that lack of pretentiousness about the medium that could be much better And as we were talking or before that when we were talking about Oz last week when we decided to do this episode

It's not totally like everyone it was Oz came out and then there was the Sopranos and everyone took the Sopranos route most Yes, amc did an HBO did but there's one network that saw Oz as like the real Model for their stuff FX. Yes. It's so okay. Well If this is like the DNA for all FX shows comes from Oz. Yes, but okay So I think Oz it was able to hook people without shocking It is similar to an effect show if I had to say what show does this this Oz have them share the most DNA with? It's not sense of anarchy. It's nip tuck. Yes, and sons of anarchy

The big thing about sons of anarchy is that it's confusing and boring a lot of times That is absolutely it It's weirdly confusing and boring like you wouldn't think it is but it is like there's so they have so many complicated drug Drug and gun deals they make net probably $5,000 on that are so boring But nip tuck is very exciting, but I'm gonna bring this all around nip tuck Oz and better call Saul actually They're all fundamentally good for the same reason in my opinion. Yeah

nip tuck for all for how ridiculous it is it is able to maintain your attention between the shocking things Because of how interesting its interpretation of the day-to-day of a high-end plastic surgery firm would be right They're just so good at that episodic style same with Oz the inner workings of the prison and the society Society's the prison it follows the same formula as so much of the mafia stuff This round is did the just day-to-day episodic content of it is so interesting and so baseline gripping better call Saul the inner workings of a sort of fraudulent Illinois type of Illinois-born

Attorney and soul Goodman his episodic content of his scams and how he conducts himself the courtroom is so interesting that it hooks you in Between these major prestige dramatic moments It's the same reason why justifies good justifies episodic content of the bad guy of the week fucking rocks Solving the crime fucking rocks. It's you you've seen it once you've seen it a million times He can figure out the formula just like you can figure out the formula with Oz of the politicking the prison Or how they're gonna fix like this unfixable problem and dip tuck, but it's so like they They do the basic work for you of giving you an interesting 40-minute fill in between these other moments that That's why your brain records. It is good and your brain is able to record everything and enjoy everything and be stimulated

mm-hmm and a Lot of the shows now have really lost sight of the fact that one of the fundamental pleasures of watching an hour-long program is to see a actual Story told yes included. Yes, like there's this There's a aha moment even if it's small in seeing something come to like when when Dino gets set on fire Like that is the end of a cycle You know you saw him struggling with prison. You saw him struggling with his conscience You saw him struggling with his prejudice and you saw him at the end We're refusing to deal with those things and instead seek annihilation

Subconsciously because that's the kind of thinking that led him to prison in the first place I mean that's it's actually it actually is insightful. It doesn't even mean like beyond what the dumb expository Monologues just the narrative tells you a story about about how people get into prison and what prison life is like that you only get Because it tells a complete narrative exactly It doesn't do this with like viral moments and seeds that are designed to be shared on social media like Oz The only thing like that Oz is the Augusta sill monologues and of course are the things that people remember the least the way that it imparts like the

Interested the the unique setting of prison as the setting is through these episodic stories and they're very good like it's because they're done by like Homicide writers who are very good TV writers Um So let's get into episode two everyone is I love episode two by the way fucking because it's about getting wet Yes, no Yes, but getting your nut off and who what is a more important topic than that? Yes Everyone is investigating Dino's death from the prison authorities to the Italians This is

Well, this is actually okay There's an argument between McManus and the sort of like gross Irish American guard who's friends with O'Reilly We're at McManus is basically like how did five guys come in and light a guy on fire? Very fair question at the guards like hey, fuck you pay you fuck cook and Leo Glenn instead of being like Yeah, how yeah, but he's like hey guys. We're on the same side here That's a funny thing is that these guys murder a maid mob guy who's part of a crew and A crew a crew of mob prisoners

By in a way that requires Necessitates an inside man. They the kind of thing like you got it You wouldn't you would save that killing for like like a breaking bat moment where oh this guy's gonna testify It's worth the risk. That's basically just like this guy's kind of a prick. I'm sick of him sick is bullshit Yeah, that's not sufficient reason to do that, but it isn't Oz where there is no law and what and that's of course what makes the whole the McManus quixotic effort to create to turn Emerald City into into a bastion of of Humanity so hilarious. It's like dude. You're in a prison where there's just a guy who for a pack of cigarettes

We'll open up a cell and let eight guys set a dude on fire Yeah, all the guards the guards routinely risk like life sentences for nothing. Yep. Absolutely nothing like yeah What could the prisoners be giving them like $40? Yeah, he put his money on this guy my commissary. I can get some fucking juicy fruit Like life in prison but yeah, whatever so Back in M city Beach was clearly traumatized from chillin jurors repeated assaults Edie Falco tells him, you know, well, like you're having trouble adjusting prison life She doesn't know about the rapes that have been occurring. So she's like, why don't you bring in your wife for a conjugal? Beecher's

Gigantically haired wife shows up. She has the biggest fucking hair. I've ever seen it's big It's the entire it was my entire screen They have sex. It's nice after the conjugal Silder continues to intimidate and torment beacher Outside and this is another thing. I love the show about the show. Yeah, the asshole governor of the state Devlin Yes introduces legislation to ban conjugal's this governor gets reelected like five times throughout the series And the only thing he seems to run on is anti is like prisoner austerity. Yes

Whatever we do the prisoners Yeah, like the people in this state are like there's no jobs in this state except working at the prison But like your only platform is that we have to be meaner to the prisoners, but they just keep voting I mean obviously tough on crime was a real element of of the 90s politics. Yeah, and and yeah taking away prisoners perceived goodies and and Indulgences was was a real easy Button to press but they really do imply in the show that he was a single issue candidate And it was just about like taking away putting cups from prison commissaries. Yeah, like I mean tough on crime

It was like a very foundational Republican issue from the 80s on it was huge. Yeah in the 90s, but again It's like the only thing the governor's ever legislate. It's the only bills he ever signed. So like We're now we're proud to sign the Prisoners are gay act of 2001 Yeah, they're all gay declared gay driver's license if they ever get out again. Yeah, it's so it's really funny But he is I mean I could see him as a bin 90s Republican. Who are we kidding? but

So next our next flashback retreated to is Augustus Hill and we find out why he's in a wheelchair and How he became the worst narrator of all time? Our hero Augustus he's banging his wife Before the police was the police instantly raid his apartment as he's about to come which is such a 90s sentence That's such 90s fiction, but While the officers heard pursuit he shoots one of the arresting officers Killing him after he's apprehended. He gets thrown off the building as revenge by the police And he's doing all this nude by the way, just dick just flopping around. Yeah, and just go into town

Yeah, I'm just doming cops with his dick swaying like a goddamn pendulum. He is owning these cops, but So one of the Italians one of Nino's charges shows up to take over the kitchen now that order Lonnie's dead He tells Keen and at a BC that they can't run contraband out of the kitchen until they find out who killed Dino We next get we then get Jefferson Keen's flashback scene, which is the funniest. I've seen a pop five funniest in the series This is you know what you describe this one. This one's so good. Okay, so They know that whenever they cut back to the flashback, they're not always with the guy who is the prisoner So sometimes you're like, what's what's going on? It's a flashback to a couple young black couple coming down the steps of a church on their wedding day surrounded by friends and family and then all of a sudden they

Uh, Jefferson Keen just blows them away just standing in the middle of the street slow motion murders the bride and groom And he's what he's wearing a vest with no shirt on underneath Yes, and he's flanked by two guys who are also wearing this. Yes Who's come to be shirtless with him while he kills the married couple. Let's go do shirtless wedding murders guys It's probably the dumbest like broad daylight the most witnesses you could probably have but I mean I mean literally how could you do more? How could you have four witnesses? So we find out that Keen who wants to get married to his girlfriend Mavis who's like pray the hottest fucking woman I've ever seen the name Mavis

Mavis is She's attractive fire so McManus and Glenn argue about it. McManus is like Glenn is like Keen Killed a couple getting married and McManus said well that he ripped off their package. We find out why he did it and Yeah, McManus is against it. No, that was my favorite moment is that he goes he killed a bride and groom on his wedding day Which that means you don't really need the flashback, but whatever you go for it and his responses

He said they ripped off his package Yeah And then Leo goes if that's not an excuse and he goes it's not an excuse, but it's a reason That's like I don't know man That's not a good reason. That's a terrible reason to murder two people on their wedding day Even if you really liked that package and it was a lot of money or whatever, you know, it would be funny If it wasn't a drug package. It was just like he ordered a table He got something from creating barrel and he's like time to get shirtless and go to prison forever

These guys love just and I understand that there's a certain fatalism among the criminal class, right? You know, but at the same time doing color-coordinated public executions Goes a little bit beyond just basic nihilism. Yeah, it's crazy. So Yeah, McManus is obviously pro-keen getting married Leo's obviously against it screed Said goes and appeals to Leo Glenn on Keen's behalf and Glenn changes his tune because now Said will owe them and that'll make it easier in the prison Uh, that's the example of like the inter-prison politics of what makes the show entertaining on a baseline, but uh So Mavis and Jefferson get married through proxy like they have someone someone on the inside of the prison

Someone on the outside standing in their place Now, you know, they're married. We get a little background on Edie Falco's character who has a very tragic like Edie Falco's character. Yeah, she has to work at the prison because there's no jobs at the auto plant like it is it does It's not end of history. It does prescribe America as a grim place with no fucking jobs or anything Oh, that scene where yes where Edie Falco is in the break room talking about how she stuck with the job because She can't afford a different place and all that and she actually says Uh, I'm I'm I'm trapped just like these prisoners which once again that is theater as shit Yeah, right on the head right now on the head fucking lampshade

You might as well have an act break like you could just see hurt them freezing and then the lights dropping after she says that But again credit for right for tom fontana writing this in 97 and not being like, well, we've solved all the problems It's true. Yeah. No, he understands that like no country would that is shoving people in prison with this sort of gusto is okay Yeah, no, absolutely So Next we get alvarez lease alvarez He was the inmate that got stabbed in the stomach when we saw the intake scene In the first episode

He learns in the hospital that his girlfriend is given birth the prison chaplain Ray Mikata tries to get Or Miguel alvarez. Sorry Miguel fuck tries to get Miguel to see his son But Miguel is unmoved Miguel is very fatalistic because his father and grandfather in the same prison They're clearly in this very This generational pattern of having a kid Being locked away not being able to see it and Miguel sort of correctly says It's just gonna be my life like who gives a shit even if he is technically up in parole for two years Uh, Mikata appeals to Miguel's grandfather who's in solitary to speak to him about raising his son

The grandfather is actually successful and alvarez starts taking some sort of parenting class after they meet We learn that Nino's wife is dying McManus arranges for him to see his wife before she goes in exchange for his patients in the investigation of Dino's death So as to avoid further violence O'Reilly moves into emerald city And seems to be building a working relationship with Schillinger Nino presses O'Reilly on Orta Lonnie's murder O'Reilly tells keen that they have to give up Johnny post So business could continue but keen is against the idea

After being pressed by the authorities O'Reilly tells Nino. He knows who killed Dino Orta Lonnie Uh, McManus tells Nino that his wife has died and then the Italians kill post in retaliation for Dino episode two over This was I episode two. There's a lot of stuff. There are a lot of Augustus Hill monologues Oh god, some of my favorites of the entire show One of my well one in particular the one that I've remembered for 25 fucking years The one that has not left my mind for a minute really and that is the one you can you could probably guess Uh, is it the one where he's like he talks about how he can't feel his dick anymore? But then it goes to the interstitial and he's like you could take everything away from a man

But you can't take away his feelings Is it that one? No, it's not. I love that one. That one It is at the end when he's lying on a slab and says sex and death. They're different, but the same And then as he's talking about how they're both. Oh, you're surrendering Your mind and spirit. He is slowly covered Like I think he's probably on a tilting board and they tilt him down and a bunch of White and red liquid Coming behind him indicating common blood. Yeah. Okay. Yeah

I I made a practice not to record every Augustus Hill monologue. You can't there's too many There's too many and it would also make my notes taking Process three hours longer It would be so difficult, but I love I think that's Augustus Hills monologues are specifically why I thought The show was beneath me when I was a kid because they're so over it They so they're so unsubtle and clumsy and shit, but it's like I don't know. It's like man. At least you're going for it Like I've seen so much. There's so much lazy shit entertainment when I see the Augustus Hill monologues

it's like well at least like At least this isn't procedurally generated to like I don't know make as much money in North America and China as possible Yeah, exactly. How well what content can we put together that will get two seasons on Netflix? And then their algorithm will cancel the show because they're they tell us that they don't need anything to be longer than two seasons Which means even though because it's a prestige show We're going to have to build these stupid season and beyond season long arcs We'll never have any faith that any of them will be Uh brought to fruition because it could just be cancelled at any moment when people stop clicking on it enough

So that means everything is it's like an abortion before it even begins Uh, meanwhile, you got fucking the guy swimming in jizz and cum and blood telling you about how death and uh And sex are the same thing. Well, it was last time you saw that on Netflix Yeah, it's it's an awesome show and I think the difference doing Oz and the difference a Netflix show It's analog versus digital, right? Oh, yeah, that's Oz is very formulaic Just like homicide is very formulaic or yeah, it's very formulaic and it's formulaic in the way that great tv writers are There's a very analog like technique to writing good episodic tv And it only comes with doing it for 20 fucking years as all these guys did

But it's why these episodes are so watchable and interesting because they know exactly how to make a very tight single episode arc about the politics of the prison And Netflix show Is it's algorithmic. It's a computer program telling them. Okay. We need, you know 10 percent of an lgbt issue We need 10 percent of something that was trending on twitter. We need 10 percent. We need 15 percent of You know an inversion a gender inversion of a classic stock character that will get people to write about it This percent of time if there are x articles written about this will get y return on this show And then we could cancel out for two seasons and then we can write it off as

Write it off as a loss even though we made money on it. It's completely like there's no actual craftsmanship Yeah, because it's just a collection of scenes and and and things. Yeah scraped from the internet Because there's no demand for any individual episode to tell a story And it's insane how we just kind of forgot that that's the point Because we would rather be flattered that it's artistic Mm-hmm those like these netflix shows They do fall like they there is like a quant program where it's like

Let's have a very cynical adoption of an identity identity issues So people will write articles about it and there's so much let's have you know, let's have this gifable moment Let's have this let's have it and it sucks so much Because there's really no human input in this because if there was they'd be like even just that much more watchable Even like that the flaws on the edges of ours a little fingerprint smudges you see on it like the clumsy augustus hill monologues are like I recognize the humanity and I like I like them for the same reason that I like the christian movies that we watch which is like I at least see what they were going for here. Yeah, well, there's a there's a human intelligence behind it

Yes, there's a there's a drive. There's an ex there's an expressive drive That that is not pure commerce, which is what has been completely what is now taken over completely Yeah, and it's now yeah Now it's just like recreating these hollow forms and everything has been taken out of it except for the well We know that you know over educated Under stimulated dipshits who watch a lot of tv think this is smart And that's how it gets made. Yeah My final review for these two episodes is like god, I wish there was more tv still like this

No And the thing is is what it would require is it would require you to if to make a show like that You'd have to be willing for people to laugh at it and think of that and uh and make fun of it and say that it does Because it doesn't fit the formula and yes and most and obviously there's no incentive for any of the content producers to green light something like that And there's very little incentive for any creators to take that kind of risk Uh to their careers and reputations of making something that could be cringy The way that hamas that the way that uh, ah, this is a little cringy

But that's also the only way you're gonna get anything that doesn't look like everything else and that is even vaguely interesting Yeah, so I mean, I guess we'll probably never get another show like this. I mean honestly, yeah I mean if you if you yeah, like you should just we should just keep watching us every like If you're getting that urge to like think that there are other that there are actually human beings behind any of these Uh projects you're gonna go watch watch the ones good news is though five seasons and boy There's so much in there. There's so much stuff in there Now obviously there's a lot of sexual assault. There's tons of murder, but there's scat play. There's a crucifixion There's a part where they make them take old age medicine experimentally. Oh my god that episode remember the musical episode

Yes Because there was a fucking theater thing. They were putting on a show. It was like a troupe Yeah, it wasn't just an algorithm I was a bad habit. Yeah. I just sound like it my day But no, it really does like it's like it's the same way as like you watch a a low budget I I watched the hidden uh a couple months ago with comma glocklin uh and

Like mid low budget uh sci-fi action movie Uh, but every every fucking bullet hit is a glorious squib real fucking car chases with real car crashes And I just think that they can't muster that kind of uh, just technical investment in quality or suspension of disbelief in things that are 100 million dollar projects anymore and you look at us. It's like they've squeezed any kind of um risk taking or uh personal uh idiosyncrasy out of television. Yeah No, you there is very little noticeable dna Of the writer. Yeah of shows now. Like there's no a tourist for dev now, which is so weird because that was such a hallmark Yeah of prestige tv. I mean, I think for uh better call saw there's some identifiable like vince gilligan dna

But less so than there is tom fontana on us. No, absolutely No, you can't watch homicide and Oz and not see. Oh, this is the same guy And I think it would be a lot harder to do that with even shows by like name brand ought uh, uh tv people now Like the connection from one to the other just in terms of aesthetic and arrangements and stuff. Well I mean reject modernity modernity embrace addition watch Oz watch Oz

What if you want to be if you want to be trad if you want to be productively trad watch Oz. Yeah, uh matt christman Thank you so much. Yeah. Thanks for having me. I'm glad happy to have been on i'm loving i'm loving your uh I'm loving your new cultural turn No, yeah, I'm i'm america's most important cultural critic now. I have no question Oh Oh