Chapo Trap House - BONUS: Z for Zohran

Episode Date: February 6, 2025

Will sits down with Zohran Mamdani, New York State Representative and candidate for New York City Mayor. After bonding over being just two boys from New York, their grade school rivalry, and touching on Zohran’s family & background, Will & Zohran discuss his plans to improve housing, transit, policing and homelessness services in New York City, as well as his plans to win this election. If you’d like to help out or get involved in his campaign, go to: https://www.zohranfornyc.com/

Hello everybody, it's Will here coming at you with a very special bonus episode. Now long-time listeners of the show and long-time Will Menacher knowers, Will will be familiar with the fact that I have long been known, long been called by others, certainly not myself, Mr. NYC. Many people associate me with the NYC equals number one brand. So it is my distinct pleasure today to introduce a mayoral candidate for this great city of New York who has come to kiss the ring and get the endorsement of Mr. New York City. Joining me today on the show is New York State Assemblyman Zoran Mamdani, who is running for mayor of New York City.

Zoran, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. I'm indeed here and ready to kiss the ring. All right, Zoran, this is probably the most important question that I will ask you in this interview. And let's just do it at the top so we know where we stand here. Zoran, is New York City indeed the greatest city in the world? Absolutely. No question about it. Okay. All right. So, got that out of the way. I think we can pretty much wrap things up here, Chris.

What do you think? Is that good? All right, okay. All right, this is the next one. Please fill in the blank in this sentence. New York City is the blank of America. The best. Good answer, good answer.

All right, so Zoran, I wanted to get into the state of the race and some of the big issues affecting just cities in America, but New York City in particular. But first, between two real heads, between two real New Yorkers, let's alienate everyone listening not from NYC. Let's do it. Let's go through some classic New York City stuff. All right. Okay. Only real ones are listening now. Yeah.

All right. So, first off... Let's narrow the coalition. Yeah. Well, they, hey, they can't vote. We're trying to get, we're trying to get all the votes of people in New York City two times. Tammany Hall style. All right. All right. So this is, this is, this is a good one to start with. What neighborhood did you grow up in? Grew up in Morningside Heights. Morning, Morningside Heights. Okay. What was your childhood train station? My childhood train station was 116. When I first moved to New York City, I was seven years old. We moved to New York City because my dad got a job at Columbia.

That's why we lived in Morningside Heights. At that time, it was the one and the nine. The nine, rest in peace. Pour one out for the nine. The nine rest in peace. You know, pour one out for the, for the nine. We hope for its return. But then I would take the one in high school up to 231st street. That's where I would take the BX10. And you went to Bronx Science, right? Went to Bronx Science. Yes. I'm one of those guys who couldn't get into Stuyvesant, made

it by over his knowledge. No, I didn't even try. I did prepare for the test though, but some reason. So did you go to Morningside Park? Did you play sports there, like hang out in Morningside Park? I would go to Riverside Park a lot. I would also go to Morningside Park as well. I spent a lot of time at Riverside Park, Central Park when I was in middle school. I used to be an avid soccer player at the non-competitive recreational league of the ASO, American Youth Soccer Organization.

All right. Well, I mean, you're speaking my language here because I went to grade school in Morningside Heights at the Cathedral of St. John the Divine. You went to Cathedral? I went to Cathedral, yes. Oh my God. And my childhood train station was 96th Street 1923. Let's go. Wow, you went to Cathedral. Hungarian pastry shop? Yeah, we're talking here.

All right, this guy knows his stuff. All right, so now you are a state assemblyman currently for Astoria, Long Island City. So, I mean, like, I'm going to assume you're a Met guy. Are you METs or Yankees? I'm a light MET guy. I said light because I really don't want to bullshit. It originated out of a deep hatred of the Yankees. And now it's become, you know, like a casual pastime of being a pro MET guy, all the while knowing that at some point the owner of the MET will likely spend a lot of money

into beef. Well, you know, he's got enough money for that. That's for sure. Every time I saw a new player, I'm like, yes, yes, please. So who is your all-time favorite Met? My all-time favorite Met? Honestly, just for like the early days, I feel like it's piazza. All right. Greatest hidden catcher of all time.

Well, just it just just the nostalgia. The nostalgia for the Halcyon days of the year 2000. All right. Um, so yeah, like growing up in Morningside Heights, how would you describe the city you grew up in versus the city today? Do you have fond memories of growing up in New York City? Or what was your favorite thing about growing up in Manhattan? I think one of my favorite things is just also how quickly you can grow up. Like going to high school in New York City and seeing the five boroughs through those eyes is something that I feel like it just gives you a completely different vantage point

of what New York City is and can be. I mean, I was somebody who a lot of my life revolved around what I did after school. So soccer, cricket, and because of being on those teams, I would go around Queens, the Bronx, Brooklyn for these games, and that would really kind of expand my worldview than just living in Morningside Heights. But you know, shout outs to Tom's Diner, shout outs to Samad's. Now, this is the aspect of your bio that I wanted to address. I mean, you handled the baseball question very ably, Zoran. But in your bio, it says you're a cricketer. You play cricket and now you're telling me you play soccer.

I mean, obviously, you know ball, but are you concerned that maybe what opposition research is going to do with your association with two flagrantly un-American sports? You know, that is my least concern of opposition research is going to deal with your association with two flagrantly un-American sports. You know, that is my least concern of opposition research. I'm like, if we're getting down to my stats in the PSAL as a bronze-line striker and that I only put eight goals away in my senior year, I would love to defend that record. Well, I mean, you can just say that and people will get so fucking confused that I think their eyes will just glaze over. So you're right. Let's see if we can start the

rat fucking campaign against you based on cricket and cricket alone. Yeah, let's go. All right. Now I want to think a little bit about your background and because like you like me, despite being, you know, also a Mr. New New York City, a mister of New York City, among us, some of the greatest New Yorkers of all time, neither of us were actually born in New York City. Where were you born? I was born in Atlanta, Georgia. Wow!

And spent maybe the first few precious days of my life in Atlanta, despite living in New York City for the last 41 years of my life. You were born somewhere a little bit different. You talk about where you were born and what it was like moving to America when you were seven? Yeah. I was born in Kampala, Uganda, a little bit further from ATL, though all due respect to Atlanta. I moved to New York City when I was seven. I actually moved to New York City from Cape Town because after I was about five, my dad got a job at the University of Cape town as a professor, so we lived there for about two years. And I remember moving to New York city in 1999.

And I went to this very progressive middle school called bank street. It was the kind of school which I loved where when you've got your report, it was arrival of cathedral. It was a rival of Cathedral. It was a rival of Cathedral school. That's why when you sent you into Cathedral, my first thing was like, we used to body you guys. Not when I was there, buddy. Not when I was there. But at my middle school, it's like I got there and I remember asking, like, where's the detention?

And I remember the administration like the new citizens were very concerned they called my parents or like if he all right like what happened to him and I had been coming from like the strict Catholic school in Cape Town but it was a it was a very big shift but I think I think that and also I just kept getting told that I spoke English really well and I was like what did y'all think? The British colonists have the world. What were the circumstances that led to you and your parents moving to New York City? My dad got a job at Columbia. And so that's what brought us over in 99. Both of my parents had also

gotten scholarships from different countries. My dad's family is from East Africa, came over from India about 200 years ago. My mom's family is from East Africa, came over from India about 200 years ago. My mom's family is from India, but they both got scholarships to come study in the US. And so they were familiar with the US, they'd worked in the US, lived in the US, but in 99 specifically, it was that my dad got that job. Do you think your parents' lives and personal histories

are relevant to anything going on in the country right now? Yeah, I would say so. I mean, I think, you know, my parents, what enabled my parents to build the lives that they have built over many decades are things in many respects that are in jeopardy right now. I mean, like my dad, in 1962, Uganda got its independence and the United States government gave the Ugandan government 23 scholarships as a gift for independence. My dad won one of those scholarships. That's why he, as a 16, 17 year old, left Uganda to come study at the University of Pittsburgh.

And even just that whole idea of the United States having any relationship with the world at any kind of a level Is the one that you know in the last few days has been playing out pretty prominently as Republicans attempted to dismantle much of that Now you bring up your parents I gotta ask you this are your parents in real life as cool and impressive as their biographies would seem to suggest I mean, which one do you want to start with here? Zoran, I was today years old when I realized that your mom is the incredibly accomplished filmmaker, Mira Nair, who directed the film Mississippi

Micella starring Denzel Washington, among other great films like Monsoon Wedding and others. But like, I mean, like, any chance you get Denzel to maybe cut a little campaign ad for you? Or does he usually stand up politics? I'm actually doing this show to get to him. That's my plan here. But I mean, they are incredible. And I think it's rare that you find, you know, there's that whole phrase of never meet your heroes. But these are not only my heroes, but also my dear parents. That's been a pretty lucky experience for me growing up to have them.

And just to set the record straight here, I am backed by big Mississippi masala in this race. It's in many ways, it's in many ways a race between big Mississippi masala and big real estate. And New York City has to decide where they fall. Oh, do you have a favorite movie about New York City? You have a favorite New York City movie? Favorite New York City movie. I mean, you know, one answer is do the right thing.

I think another answer, I also, you know, we're talking about my mom. I also got a shout out. My mom made a documentary in the very early days called So Far From India, where it was a documentary all profiling a bodega owner and and how it was for him in his life and the distance from India and where he grew up. Everyone put that in the queue. Now, I want to talk about your dad for a second. In doing some research for today's show, I

came across a really hilarious anecdote that your dad anecdote that your dad tells about how he was introduced to the works of Karl Marx. Are you familiar with this story? I love this story. Could you share it with our audience? Here we go. So my dad gets to this country in 1962. He is a student at University of Pittsburgh. He has never been to United States before and he's here to become an electrical engineer, to become an engineer really.

And a few months into his time at Pittsburgh, he hears students walking down the hallway singing, which side are you on? And they were members of the student nonviolent, nonviolent coordinating committee who were recruiting students to get on the bus to Montgomery, Alabama. And my dad hears it and he gets up and he gets on the bus and he goes down and he marches, he gets hosed, he gets beaten, he gets thrown in jail. He calls as this one phone call, the Ugandan ambassador is like, can you get me out? And the ambassador is like, what the hell are you doing in jail in the United States? We sent you there to study.

And my dad says, well, we got the scholarship as a reward for our freedom. And I'm here fighting for their freedom. It's the same fight. He gets let out a few weeks later, he gets a knock on the door and it's the FBI and he's quite taken aback because it looks like how it's presented in the movies and it's quite something. And these FBI agents, they ask him, you know, do you know Karl Marx? And he says, no, I don't. Like, who is he? Where is he?

He's like, no, he's dead. My dad's like, I'm sorry about that. And he says, no, no, no, he's been dead for a while. So he's like, well, why are you here to talk to me about it? Well, you know, he didn't, he believed that poor people shouldn't be poor. I was like, oh, it sounds great. And the FBI clearly realized that this guy knows nothing about Karl Marx and they leave. And then my dad, inspired by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, goes to the library and

starts to pick up copies of Karl Marx's works. So, yeah, he just assumed Karl Marx was a guy that they were asking him about. Yeah. A guy who recently died or maybe he was being questioned in relation to his death or something. It's like, is he a student? One last interesting fact about your dad before I get into the state of the race. Are you aware that the former U.S. Senator Kristen Sinema wrote a book on the Rwandan genocide? I'm vaguely familiar because I remember somebody tweeting about this.

It was a shock to me. But in that book, she cites your dad over 30 times. He is the number one source for Kristin Sinema's book on the Rwandan genocide. I want to be very clear. I want to be very clear. He's the number one source for that book, but not for her political trajectory that took place after she wrote that book. We have nothing to do with that. Do you think maybe she failed to absorb at least some of the things that your dad, that she was citing from your father? Look, my father's book on the Rwandan genocide is called When Victims Become Killers, and

I think she may... Yeah, might have to dust that one off again. I have misunderstood. All right, Aron, let's get into the mayor's race because this is why you're here and you've stepped into this race and you've really, you've injected a lot of, I think, enthusiasm into this race, certainly from people like me who, broadly speaking, would like to see a sort of Bernie Sanders style platform enacted in America's greatest number one city. But what is the state of the race, like what is like the state of the race?

Like how would you describe like the state of the race as it currently is? Because like I mean you're raising like similar to Bernie you're having great success raising a lot of money from individual donors. But like you're kind of neck and neck with the city comptroller Brad Lander right now. But I got to be honest in all the polls I'm reading both of you are trailing 10 or 15 points behind a guy who's not even in the race yet. So I got to ask, are you preparing for the Andrew Cuomo Death Star? And like, don't show me your cards or anything here. But like, are you prepared for that eventuality? Absolutely. It is something that it's a matter of when, not a matter of if. And he, you know,

his team calls people in the political world and calls journalists every week and says, you know, either this week or it's going to be next week. And they just keep people on a perpetual sense of there is an imminent announcement to come. And even though he hasn't been in the race, he's been one of the most influential figures through the trajectory of this race, just the mere suggestion of his presence. I think what the state of this race is, even with him on the brink of entering it, is a very unpredictable situation where we have a deeply unpopular incumbent, Eric Adams,

and then we have someone who is similarly of a disgraced executive, Andrew Cuomo, except he's former and not current and at the gubernatorial level. And the challenge here really is to make both of these individuals answer for their record, because while Adams has a harder time getting away from his record since we're living through it right now, Cuomo's record is being replaced by the perception of what it actually was versus the reality. And I think that's what makes me feel like this race is in no way over or no way out of reach. It is in fact, one that is going to be a contest between perception and reality. And I'm really excited by it because, you know, when we started this race, I would say

like maximum 1% of New Yorkers knew who I was. And what we're seeing is the more and more New Yorkers hear about this campaign and this campaign's plan to make New York City more affordable and actually speak to the level of crisis that people are living through, the more people are hungry for a different kind of politics. And that is in direct contrast to Andrew Cuomo's approach to New York City. Well, if only it were just Eric Adams, because I mean, like, I mean, you would be running against what is more or less the most openly corrupt mayor in New York City who is currently begging like a dog to Donald Trump for a pardon. By the way, have you met Eric Adams in person? Have you ever sat down

at the table of success? And if so, what's it like? I have met Eric Adams a few times. I actually spoke to Eric Adams today because he came up to Albany, which is where I'm at right now, for Tin Cup Day, which is what it's called when New York City mayors come every year to ask Albany for support. More subway pews.

Yeah. Today I got three minutes to question him, where I asked him about if he'd let ICE agents into New York City public schools and how he could justify cutting more than $180 million in funding for early childhood education. And he obviously, as he always does, refuses to answer any of these questions and just tries to play it off and get back to the table of success. I mentioned that you've done extremely well raising money from individual donors,

because the issues you talk about and the policies that you're running on really resonate with a lot of people. But is it a critical mass of people to get you over a divided field? You seem to have learned a lot of the lessons of the Bernie campaign and are replicating a lot of them. But have you learned any lessons from his loss? You seem to have learned a lot of the lessons of like the Bernie campaign and are replicating a lot of them. But like, have you learned any lessons from his loss? And like, like, how are you going to change anything to deal with like, like I said, what

is going to be a very difficult, a very strong opponent in Andrew Cuomo? No, I think, you know, first, just to put it directly, this campaign is very inspired by Bernie's 2016 and 2020 runs. I mean, Bernie was the person that gave me the language to call myself a democratic socialist. It was that 2016 run when I realized that all these ideas that I thought were disparate and didn't actually fit together were bound by one political ideology. And he was the messenger of that for me. And I'd say for millions of Americans, you Americans. I think the ways that we're seeking to build on that approach is by ensuring that we understand

the most, the strongest part of that campaign is when it spoke in a universal language and when it spoke to everyone at all times, understanding that that is how we can build the broadest coalition. I have sought to do that throughout this campaign, focusing with a relentless focus on an economic agenda and figuring out how is it that we can distill the level of precarity that people are being forced to live through in this moment, the fact that it's being imposed on them through policy and political choices, and that we can change that. We can do that in direct ways. We opened the campaign with promises around freezing the rent, making buses fast and free, and delivering universal childcare.

I think what it has allowed us to do is build out a coalition that is already broader than what a lot of people thought we would be able to do in this campaign. And I think that is, you know, in many ways, one of the lessons of Bernie is, how do you ensure that when you catch enough momentum and catch enough fire, that you are ready for when the establishment strikes back? And that's why we can't ever just get carried away with momentum. We always have to prepare for the inevitable backlash and make sure that we're doing those things in tandem. Now, when you talk about like these sort of broad universal policies that where you say to people like I said, but the bus should be free, like there should be a cap on rents

like across the city. You will say, oh, like, that sounds good. But like, can you really get it done? And like, you know, I saw Brad Lander the other day was couching this argument that I see, particularly Democrats do this all the time, where they want to talk about their realistic plans rather than a broad governing vision. Because I think that allows them sometimes to neglect to speak to the fact that the good thing that they say is impossible, they don't even want that either.

So they're always like, well, sure, everyone should have health care. But no, they don't even want that either. So they're always like well sure everyone should have health care but like no you don't really want them to have health care. So like how do you respond to this idea that like uh what are the plans really or like can you really do this or like sure that sounds great but like it'll be impossible largely because the people telling you that are going to make it as impossible as possible. You know I understand where the question is coming from. And I understand it especially when it's coming from working class New Yorkers who have been betrayed by politicians at every level of government over the course of their lives and are wary of putting their trust in yet another. And the way that I build that trust over the course of a conversation is to show them just

how feasible each one of these three demands is. When we're talking about freezing the rent, that's something that Bill de Blasio did three times as the mayor of New York City in just the previous administration. When we're talking about making buses fast and free, that's something that I already took steps towards as an assembly member. I launched a campaign called Fix the MTA. We want a historic free bus pilot. We saw in making one bus route free in each borough that ridership went up by at least 30%. Assaults on bus drivers dropped by 38.9%. And more than 40% of new riders were making $28,000 or less. Same kind of people we say we want to get when we do means tested programs, but they're also the same ones that we fail to capture in

those programs because which working class person is ready to hop through 10 different hoops of a bureaucracy that has already failed them. And then when we talk about universal child care, I just point to examples right around us. I mean, Quebec across the border, when they invest in universal child care, they saw a 10 to 1 return in terms of their economic investment. And what we're seeing right now is if we don't do it, we are basically ushering people out of New York City. Because after rent, child care is the number one expense that is driving people out of the five boroughs because it can cost 20 to $25,000 a year.

So these things are doable. It's just a question of political will. And I think this Washington, DC style approach of to say something that is say something that is good and that is worthy and that is needed is to engage in some politics of the unrealistic when in fact, the point of politics is to make the principled possible. And for too long, politics has been something where we're told just make a possible principle. Yeah, you know, I mean, I think this focus on like the technocratic, like, how do you get it done? done or like that's not realistic. Where are the votes? I think that just obscures a kind of like a need to advertise what your sort of governing vision and ideology and I don't know morality really is. So if you like couch everything in this

idea of like, I mean, look, it's necessary because like, you know, ideally, you will be elected and people expect something from you. But like, I think there should be something to say said for like sort of blue sky thinking about like, look, you're going to vote for me and like, I'll try to do this and maybe it'll get done. Maybe it won't. But like, here's what I stand for. Here's what I believe in. Yeah, and I think it's there's an urgency in people's lives. And that urgency needs to be reflected in in politicians platforms. And I think too often we let ourselves get led by financial assessments, as opposed to working with those

same kind of office of management and budget in the city administration to figure out how do we accomplish our actual political program. I mean, when Bill de Blasio ran in 2013, he ran on a three-part platform, end, stop, and frisk, tax the rich to fund universal pre-K. And he was running on that knowing that he was going to need a lot of that money for the second and third parts from Albany, which was being run then by a governor, Andrew Cuomo, who had zero interest in taxing the rich, probably even less interest in working with Bill de Blasio. And still, because even less interest in working with Bill de Blasio. And still, because that political program was so popular, de Blasio was able to get hundreds of millions of dollars in new revenue from Albany to fund Universal Pre-K,

which is probably one of the most impressive social goods that has been delivered by government in New York City in a long time, if not across this country. Yeah, I mean, speaking of Andrew Cuomo, like, I mean, if you'll accept any advice from the campaign co-chair over here, in terms of running against him, like, you make a good point that, like, Eric Adam's disgrace is currently all around him, whereas Cuomo has been out of the public eye for a couple years now. And honestly, I think New Yorkers basically don't remember or don't care about the thing he left office over. However, we're like living in a time now where like Democrats, average Democrat voters, not like DSA socialist people, like average Democratic voters are furious at their party of what they see as like not just a failure to stand up to Donald

Trump, but like ongoing collaboration with a reckless and feral Republican Party. I think Andrew Cuomo's role in the independent Democratic caucus and like making sure that Republican state kept control of our state legislature when they had absolutely no reason and no business doing so would be a good place to start. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it showcases a man for whom power is more important than principle at every single juncture. This is someone who would prefer

Republicans to have power as he did while he was the governor so that he would not have to enact progressive legislation, so that he would not have to actually be the person that he was advertising to the rest of the state and the country. And his record, while a lot of the focus has rightfully been around sexual harassment and sexual assault, there is an immense record of bankruptcy, of political leadership, whether it is from what he did with nursing homes to what he did with the MTA. A lot of us remember the summer of hell in 2017, which was something where an F train was in the tunnel for 30 minutes. It pulled into the station, windows fogged, people just trying to get out. This was becoming a normal occurrence for people. And it was because Andrew Cuomo

was refusing to fund the MTA and taking money meant for public transit and giving it to upstate ski resorts. That's the governor that we had. And that's the questions that he has to answer. But what he's going to try and do is pretend that he is bringing back the level of leadership and stability that he has always sought to telegraph, when in reality it's just austerity and cruelty. Speaking of just like to get back to policy for a second, I've described, at least on a national level, Medicare for all as the policy that would require the shortest

distance to travel to help the most amount of lives in this country, to do the most amount of tangible good. And by that I mean like it's already broadly popular, the legislation is already written and it's like, yeah, certainly a fight would have to be undertaken to pass legislation like this. But like it's not completely out of the,'s not it's not it's not like saying, oh, we should like invent clean energy or I don't know, like go to Mars or something like that. It's not like it's not crazy. What are the you mentioned

three policies already, but like let's say you were elected day one, what's the one policy that certainly would require a fight but like what's the day one policy do you think if enacted would do the most good in the shortest amount of time for New Yorkers? Most good in the shortest amount of time on day one would be freezing the rent for more than 2 million New Yorkers. When we're talking about that, it's a reference to the fact that the mayor runs the rent guidelines board, which is a board composed of nine members, all of whom are appointed by the mayor. And this board sets the rent for every rent stabilized unit across New York City, which

is a form of housing that more than 2 million New Yorkers live in. And the median household income for those units is $60,000. They have historically been the sites of economic stability in a city where costs continue to rise. And Eric Adams made them the site of rent hike after rent hike after rent hike. And if you can freeze the rent, which we have seen done before, what you are allowing New Yorkers to do, some of whom are the most working class of this city is to actually see their future.

This is what a woman named Jasmine told me in the Bronx when she said that's what brought her into this campaign was that she could actually see herself in this city, see the world that she could actually live in because finally she knew what amount of money to expect from her rent as opposed to the terror that many tenants live through where they simply don't even know how much money their landlord is going to ask for them when their lease is up. Yeah, I think housing would be probably like the number one issue facing New York City They simply don't even know how much money their landlord is going to ask for them when their lease is up. Yeah. I think housing would be probably like the number one issue facing New York City right

now. Like the affordability of rent, the rent market in New York City right now is insane. I saw a video you put out the other day. Can you talk about the building plan to build a lot of like new public housing? Like, what would that look like? So the plan that we just released was to build 200,000 units of a union built, permanently affordable rent stabilized housing. And that would be tripling what the city is currently set to build over the next 10 years.

The reason that we led with the necessity of the public sector picking up a share of responsibility for this housing crisis is that when you rely almost exclusively on private developers, you are relying on an industry for whom the most important aspect of all business they do is profit. And what we need right now is for government to understand its role in actually constructing, creating, and preserving housing that is deeply affordable. That is the kind of housing that New Yorkers who cannot afford market rate can actually still find a home. And what we're talking about here is, you know, housing for the family of four that makes $70,000 a year, housing for low-income

seniors, housing for New Yorkers who are living in shelters, who have approved vouchers that could pay a landlord $3,000 a month, but they can't find a landlord who's willing to accept that voucher because of discrimination. And instead, they live in a city where the Adams administration has cut funding for source of income discrimination such as that. So there's no consequence for those landlords. This is about those New Yorkers who are left out of the housing market as it is today. Do you have any idea about where this house

or these housing units would be built? And could you talk a little bit more about the union construction elements of this plan? Absolutely. I think at its core, union construction and the commitment to working with unions is the belief that if you build this housing you should be able to afford to live in this house and

that we need to pay people the kind of money such that they can continue to call themselves New Yorkers and furthermore union sites are safer they are also sites where we know that we are actually not going to have to deal with so much of the regular violations of the law that we see at a lot of non-union sites across New York City. And you know what? Just a quick shot out of nowhere at Robert De Niro. Because that is a man who has called himself- You're like the Tribeca, Tribeca? That is a man who has called himself a union man.

He accepted a lifetime achievement award from SAG. And he built a movie studio in Astoria with non-union labor. And I was like, come on, dude. Like, this is just, anyway, back from the- Hey, hey, you talking to me you talking to me uh but you talking you talking to this not even work site yeah i am but uh talking all right i but like uh do you have any idea about where where this construction would

take place would this be spread out across the five boroughs are you looking at one major site this would be across the five boroughs um and this would what it would also do is utilize publicly owned land that we currently have to expedite that process. There's a lot of vacant lots that the city owns. There are also land that the city owns that it's not currently using to its most productive use. And what we could do is take that ownership and leverage it to actually build the kind of affordable housing that New Yorkers need.

Because so much of the prohibitive costs of building in New York City is procuring the land and therefore the city government is already one step ahead of where most developers are. And you know another problem is that like I've living in the city as long as I have I've heard I've heard the phrase affordable housing evoked over yeah I mean by by administration after administration and the reality of it is it's not affordable Like for instance when they built the Barclays Center and they were like, okay We'll get the city's gonna give you all that got to this real estate developer all this money

To build a place for the nets and the islanders to play but you have to build X amount of rent like units of affordable Housing. Well, the thing is what's determined what determines if what's affordable is based on the median income of the zip code It's built in which in this case is Park Slope. So that's about like, I don't know, 70, 80 grand a year. Like, so the rents based on those units are not going to be affordable to a working family in New York City. Yeah, I think it's it's and it's the story of development across New York City in many ways, right? The broken promises from developers, as well as affordable starting to lose any aspect of its true meaning.

It begs the question we always hear, which is affordable to who? And I'd represent Steinway Street in Astoria and we have affordable in quotation mark units coming up that I tell my constituents about and it's like, hey, this new affordable unit came up and you need to earn $140,000 to apply to live in that student. Yeah. And that's in many ways what it ends up looking and feeling like is a government subsidized production of units that are at the same level of market rate units. That's how it has felt for a long time. I mean, like the problem is here is that like, you know, housing

policy is sort of like this cool thing or urbanism. And it's always talked about like, oh, we have a housing supply problem. And they're like, they get halfway there. But like in a city or like New York City, or any city that's very desirable to live in. Anytime like where the rent is dictated by the market is never going to be affordable. And it's only going to go up and make the city itself unlivable for the people who work in it. Yeah, I think that that's why we have to take a multi-pronged approach to this. I think, like, you know, I agree that we need to,

that we need to build more housing around, you know, transit hubs. I agree that we need to repeal requirements to build parking lots as part of housing, that we need to up zone wealthier neighborhoods that have not created the kind of housing that is needed across every neighborhood. And I also think that if you leave all of this simply to developers, you are going to end up with the kinds of rezonings and developments that we've seen time and again, which often do not hit the unit amount they say they will and often break the community promises that they commit to at the beginning of that process. And that's why it's so important that yes, we construct more housing and we also construct a specific kind of housing so people who already live in New York City can afford to live in

New York City. I think that's the thing that it's often framed in this long-term supply question, but we have to have answers for the more than 100,000 New Yorkers who live in shelters right now. We have to have answers for people who are living in an apartment today that they cannot afford to keep their family any longer because the rent is so prohibitive. That's who this plan is seeking to finally give answers to. Well, let's put a number on this here.

What should be the most amount of rent that someone should be able to charge on, let's say, a one-bedroom apartment in New York City? I can tell you the amount of rent that when I hear it for a one-bedroom, I'm like, this is just... I'm still having trouble believing that anywhere in the 2000s is a good deal for a one-bedroom in New York City. That's how it's framed and it's just hard to square. They try twice as much as that some places. Yeah. No, but I just mean these are what pass for good deals now and great deals

because of just how insane our market has become. Well, if you have any luck freezing the rent, I'm sure the Landlord and Real Estate Developing Lobby will be, if they listen to this episode, they're currently going to rent a hitman.com. I'm freezing that rent too. Yeah, stay safe. I'm freezing that rent too.

They can't get that rent. Now, like the next three issues I want to talk about that are like are sure to be a feature of any any election in New York City. But but but definitely this one as well. There are three issues that I think are all intertwined and you really can't talk about one without talking about the other and they are the subway and public transportation, policing and crime and homelessness. Like all three of these issues have become very intertwined in the public consciousness and the fact of the matter is people feel less safe than they feel less safe on the subways than they did before and you can argue about like well you know, has crime really gone up that much or like crime certainly was way higher

when you and I were going like middle school, for instance. But like it doesn't really do any good to say, oh, well, it's not as bad as it used to be or hey, the murder rates only gone up slightly. How do you speak to like people's justified concerns about their safety while still like having to kind of remind people that New York City is still the safest large city in America. I think you have to respond to how people are actually feeling. You have to respond to the experiences that people have had and continue to have.

And yes, you need to ground that in an accurate context, an accurate depiction of what is the larger set of statistics about crime and the breakdown category by category and how it compares to other years. But I think for far too long, Democrats come to political debates and arguments with statistics and with a visualization of how you should actually feel the complete opposite way that you are feeling right now. When in fact, people want to be listened to as the first reaction to what it is that they're telling you. And I'm really excited about a proposal that we're going to be putting out there in the next couple of months to two months, which will directly address these issues by creating a new department within city government that will have teams that

are trained specifically to respond to mental health crises and conduct homelessness outreach in the manner that we've seen already successful in cities across the country, whether it's Denver or Eugene or Olympia. And to do this kind of work all while we also revitalize our public transit system. And what I mean by that is, look, I remember after we whooped Cathedral's ass, I would get on the one train and then I would transfer 96th Street to the two train and then I would go to Times Square and I would transfer to another train. And when I'd be transferring, I would walk by a store that was in the center of the station that was selling CDs, selling headphones. I remember very well. I know it very well.

Yeah, exactly. Right next to the bathrooms. And that store is gone now. That store is a vacant commercial unit now. And that is the nature of so many of the stores that we grew up with across the subway system. And it is a crisis. And it's also an opportunity for us to take those vacant commercial units and make them the sites where we actually provide services to New Yorkers, whether they are experiencing mental health crises or they're being forced to sleep on our subway platforms. That's the kind of work that we need to do. And I think for far too long, we haven't presented an affirmative vision of how we will actually deal with questions of public safety.

We've told New Yorkers that there's two options, nobody on the platform with you or a police officer on the platform with you. And I'm really excited that our campaign is going to be offering the idea that you could have and should and deserve to have someone there on that platform and they deserve to be trained specifically for that kind of work, as opposed to a cop who's been given yet another task that we have determined is only going to be handled by the NYPD. And like, what would that outreach look like? Like, what would that interaction between someone who's trained to do this and someone who is homeless on a subway platform or car look like?

And like, what would be the next step from that interaction for that individual who's, you know, in crisis or just sleeping rough or whatever? I think there are a number of things. You know, one thing that comes to mind is, there are about, give or take, about 4,000 New Yorkers who sleep at our subway stations right now whose home really is the subway station which is both it is horrific that we have allowed it to reach to that level and it's also an amount and a number of people that is actually likely lower than what people think it is. It's a number of New Yorkers that we could house tomorrow. There are more vacant supportive units of housing

than there are New Yorkers sleeping on subway platforms. And we know that because a recent article came out that showed that when New Yorkers were homeless, were applying for supportive housing and are found to be eligible, the city only got back to about 20% of them. And four of those applicants died before the city got back to them about housing them

and supportive housing units. I think one thing is actually having an administration that prioritizes putting New Yorkers into housing and takes New Yorkers who are interested in getting out of the subway stations and into a place to call their own. The other thing I would say that comes to mind is the necessity of having a lot of this outreach work be built upon a peer-to-peer model. What I mean by that is there is a model called clubhouses, where you have clubhouses, one of them is called Fountain House, where you have New Yorkers who have experienced mental health crises, are potentially experiencing them in that moment, are surrounded by other New Yorkers that they develop relationships with, that they develop trust with, and that

they know that if they go through a breakdown, they can actually rely on to pick them back up without the judgment that is endemic across society in those kinds of moments. And I was really moved by this because I read an article by an individual who had been hospitalized 20 times, who had been sleeping on the subway for much of two years. And we hear about this and you read it. And then when I looked at the name, this was a guy that I used to go to political meetings with in 2019, 2020. I remember sitting next to him. I remember debating issues with him and I hadn't seen him in years. And I found out that he had become yet another New Yorker for whom that was the only place they could go. And he wrote in this article about how going to Fountain House transformed

his ability to live a stable and fulfilling life. And it was because of that trust-based peer model. So I think it's a mixture of actually efficient bureaucracy and government that is seeking to take anyone who applies and putting them into housing, having teams that are trained specifically for this work, and having a peer model that understands that for many homeless New Yorkers or for many New Yorkers who are experiencing mental health crises, the most helpful thing is for them to meet someone who has gone through that same experience and will hold their hand to the next stage of it. I mean, like, the thing about homelessness as an issue, like, I think that what you're talking about is as promising, but like, wouldn't there need to be like a significant city or

a state investment in just mental health hospitals and drug rehab facilities? Because like, these are like the conjoined like crises of people living, you know on the on the absolute fringes society, which is usually a mix of severe drug addiction and mental illness like that's that's what makes people feel unsafe on the subway and like it like what what resources can the state and city bring to bear on just providing like, you know not just like shelter for people who are suffering from mental illness or drug addiction but like just providing like, you know, not just like shelter for people who are suffering from mental illness or drug addiction, but like treatment and help.

You know, I think that it's fitting that we spoke about Andrew Cuomo at the beginning of this conversation because he is in many ways responsible for the decimating of city and state capacity to deal with a crisis like this. This is someone who closed hospitals, who closed a lot of the very kinds of resources that would be the ones we would turn to, to assist New Yorkers who were going through this kind of an experience. There are a few things I'd add. One, I would separate out homelessness and mental health crises because a lot

of times they're conflated as if it's one conversation when we're talking about homelessness, the number one issue there is can you put, can you find housing for someone? That is what, you know, and I think that. The problem with homelessness, as George Carlin said, is not having a house. is it's treated as if it is something we could never solve when we could truly put every New Yorker sleeping on a subway platform into supportive housing because we have those units ready to go if the city actually wanted to do that work. In terms of the funding around, you know, you were saying mental health services, it so often in Albany, and I see it right now as a state legislator, when we are going through what we are right now in our subway systems, where

people are not feeling safe and there are more and more New Yorkers going through mental health crises, the reaction is let's just make it easier to involuntarily commit a New Yorker to an institution. And I think a lot of that is driven by the failures of the model that we have pursued thus far, but frankly also by the unwillingness of the political establishment to actually fund the kind of work that needs to be done that provides New Yorkers with different outcomes. And when I go back to that story about the individual at Fountain House, part of the reason I do that is because the vision for what

New York City should look like is a clubhouse model in every single neighborhood. It is that there are these kinds of spaces that are funded where New Yorkers can go there, can be there, can actually have a support system as opposed to just a place where they go get medication, then leave and are left to go back into the subway system. All right. We don't have too much more time, but I do I do want to get to two very important issues that I mentioned policing. And you got you got a lot of burn. I saw a lot of people enjoying the recent interview you did with Ben Smith,

where you informed him that the NYPD is PR department staffs about 80 people. So once again, the question is, how do you address people's concerns about crimes with the need to state openly and frankly, that the NYPD has way too much fucking money? You know, I think part of it is by distilling where that money is spent. A lot of people think of the NYPD purely through the lens of police officers in my neighborhood. of police officers in my neighborhood. And when you are able to go line item by line item and say, look, this is a police department with more than 80 communication staffers who are developing, you know, high quality drone footage of Columbia University and they're bringing out the Oxford University press, very short introduction to terrorism. Yeah, that's what that's what the

budget goes to, you know, and I think, because I am someone who believes the NYPD, especially under Adams, has had a culture of impunity. And I say that plainly and directly. And I talk about how I would eliminate the NYPD's more than billion dollar overtime budget. I would disband the NYPD strategic response group, the unit it has that polices protests that has often violated New Yorkers' rights as they conduct that policing. That has also cost the city more than $100 million. I would drastically reduce the scope and size of the communications department. And I would also, in a similar vein to the

Department of Corrections, would cancel Mayor Adams' proposal, spend $225 million on the construction of a cop city in Queens. Now these days, I say them to everyone and there are New Yorkers for whom public safety is the number one issue. They want to see, you know, I've had people tell me I want to see more police officers. When I say this to them, they don't view this in conflict with how they see the city because this is fundamentally removed from their sense of safety. And I'm saying that with them and I'm talking about an affirmative vision around the creation of this new department within the city. And that is a recognition of how important the issue is and also a sketching out of an alternative means by which to provide

that safety beyond just the NYPD. The last issue I'm going to bring up is a global issue. New York is a global city. And I mean this seriously. We've seen over the last year and a half or so, New York City government in collusion with the New York City Police Department and private interests basically conspire to savagely curtail the First Amendment rights of pro-Palestinian protesters at Columbia certainly, but also in the city's city university system.

So this is one issue that separates you from any other candidate in this race and one that is sure to put a huge target on your back. So let me ask you, if you get elected mayor, what steps can your government take to protect the rights of our First Amendment rights to political protest rather than infringe them? I wish Eric Adams hadn't set such a low bar on this question and frankly on almost every question. But what we've had is a mayor who for a long time said that he sent the NYPD to Columbia and to CUNY at the behest of those institutions, but recently has come forward and said that he was begging them to send the cops.

He was begging them to allow him to send a militarized police force to storm the institutions of higher education. And I'm the only candidate that has come out and said that I would not have sent the police officers to Columbia University in the manner that Adams did. And I would not because if we are Democrats who talk about how the presence of guns on school property is dangerous when it's elementary schools or middle schools or high schools, then why is it that we have a complete sense of contradiction when it comes to institutions of higher education? Because as we saw that when Adam sent the NYPD onto Columbia's campus, one of those

officers discharged their weapon, which was the closest thing that we got to Kent State in New York City. And it was the most unsafe incident that occurred throughout this entire set of protests and encampments and it was in the NYPD response to it. And I think what I would do is be very clear that as a mayor, I would lead this city with a universal application of humanity. I would not pick and choose who I would give the rights of life and liberation and safety and security to. I would apply them to all people.

And what we've seen is a mayor who's unwilling to do that when it comes to Palestinians and he has shown himself to the unwilling through a justification of killing children, through a denial of calls for a ceasefire, through going on Zoom calls with billionaires, and then soon after sending the cops into these kinds of institutions. And it would be a very clear directive from my administration to the NYPD that New Yorkers civil liberties and civil rights must be respected in a manner that we have not seen under Eric Adams. But like when you say that though, what is your response going to be when

pretty much the entire New York media and everyone running against you says that you either are either a supporter of terrorism or an immediate existential threat to the safety of Jewish New Yorkers? Look, I have been, I've had to deal with these kinds of mischaracterizations for as long as I've stood up for Palestinian human rights. And that was actually my entryway into politics in this country. I co-founded a Students for Justice in Palestine at my college. It was the first one that we'd had. And I can tell you that when you do that, you don't do it dreaming of this is how you're

going to run for a left-foot office in New York City or in the United States. And, and the reason I feel comfortable and confident about this is that I've been very clear and that as I have stood up and said these things, time and again, I found that there are far more New Yorkers that actually empathize and agree than what we are told. And especially when, as you were saying, that the classic characterization of any critique of Israel as being anti-Semitic, I have made these critiques, I have stood up for policy and human rights, and I have done so often arm in arm with hundreds and thousands of Jewish New Yorkers. And I think that what that has shown to so many people is the very clear

difference between a critique of Zionism and a critique of Judaism. And the fact that it is something that is quite popular to stand up and say that Palestine has deserved that which every other people deserve across the world. Zoran, I didn't cover everything I wanted to get to today, but I want to leave you with with one request from me. I'm going to I'm going to pitch you a campaign issue that I think well, I think may be controversial. I think that if you if you spearhead this, you will activate a silent majority of New Yorkers and a groundswell of support for you. So, what a phrase.

Mr. Mamdani, if elected mayor, will you commit here to officially ban from all public New York City events the playing of the Jay-Z Alicia Keys song, Empire State of Mind? Yes. Done. Mr. Mamdani, won't you please be my mayor? We are playing soup boys by heems. That is how I'm going to be walking in to the briefing. Yes, we we deserve a new soundtrack for a new city. And I'm excited to thank you, sir.

And then finally, finally, Zoran, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us. But, no, absolutely. But seriously, if any of our listeners would like to get involved in your campaign in some way to donate, what can our listeners do if they like what they hear and they're either New Yorkers or they want to support the idea of having someone like you in charge of the executive branch of the largest city in America? Well, absolutely. First of all, I'd say shout out to you.

Thank you very much for feeling that. And then I would say go to zohran for nyc.com. That's Z-O-H-R-A-N-F-O-R-N-Y-C. You'll see our platform. You'll also see how to get involved. And I would ask everyone to donate, especially if you do not, if you're not able to volunteer. Donating is an incredibly helpful way to build this campaign. We have raised 642k for more than 6,500 people, more money than any other campaign in the last filing for more people than every other campaign combined. And we still need to raise a ton more because for us to win this more affordable New York city, we're going to have to run a fully funded campaign.

We're going to have to get to about, you know, 1.6, $17 million dollars. So if you can donate 10 bucks, 20 bucks, 50 bucks, whatever. And then also if you can come out in Canada, we would love to have you because we're going to knock on more than a million doors to make sure every New Yorker knows that we could freeze their rent, make their bus fast and free and deliver universal child care. Truly. NYC will continue to be number one, but it will be even more number one than it was before. Zoran, I will leave you once again saying, Mr it'll be even more number one than it was before So Ron, I will leave you once again saying mr. Mamdani. Won't you please be my mayor? Thank you. I'm in cheers everybody till next time. Bye. Bye