Chapo Trap House - Movie Mindset 33 - Casino feat. Felix

Episode Date: April 23, 2025

The first episode of this season of Movie Mindset is free for all listeners as always. To listen to the rest of the season, subscribe at www.patreon.com/chapotraphouse When you love movies, you’ve got to watch them. There’s no other way…Movie Mindset Season 3 commences with our first ever single feature on the most referenced movie in Chapo Trap House history: Martin Scorsese’s masterpiece Casino. Will and Hesse are joined by Felix to take a kaleidoscopic and dizzying dive into the inferno of American greed that is Las Vegas. Anchored by a triumvirate of all career great performances from Robert De Niro, Sharon Stone and Joe Pesci in FULL PSYCHO MODE, Casino is by equal turns hilarious and stomach turning and stands alone as Scorsese’s grandest and most generous examination of evil and the tragic flaws that doom us all. Should you listen even if you haven’t seen this movie? Why take a chance? At least that the way we feel about it.

Let's all go to the lobby Let's all go to the lobby Let's all go to the lobby To get ourselves a juice Delicious things to eat, a bottle of candy beans Sparkling drinks such as standing The chocolate house and the candy So let's all go to the lobby To get ourselves a treat Let's all go to the lobby To get ourselves a treat Ladies and gentlemen, the movies are back. This is the launch of season three of Movie Mindset. And we are kicking off this season with, to me, in my opinion, sort of the grand

daddy of my movies. I've hesitated for a long time to feature an episode on a movie that I have been so publicly associated with but it's there it's our only choice and I'm gonna begin this season of movie mindset and this episode by addressing you the listeners you call yourself men you know you're a lion lowlife degenerate podcast listening to prick aren't you no small kids at home you know you know you're tech you got you got you got your own fee Texting has to put the movies back on Will menacher is a professional podcast watch him take you inside the real Brooklyn

Tell me you spent that money on onlyfans Tell me you spent that money on onlyfans and I'll give you the fucking money to put the movie podcast back on. Don't lie to me. Don't make a fuck out of me. Live from New York City, it's the Movie Mindset Show. And the Hesedany Dancers. Featuring the Hesedany Dancers.

Don't do it, Will. Don't do it. I mean, I would start juggling on the podcast now, but in the audio format, I think a little bit lost. He's fucking juggling. My first guest tonight. That's right. David Roth, everybody. My favorite.

Wait, my favorite. One of my favorite lines in the entire thing is his interview with Frankie Avalon. The one question we hear him ask is, so how many kids do you have? That's a fucking question. Every time he talks to like a non-criminal or like a normal, that's all he can think of. That's one of the things I know. Like, I noticed it like the scene where Ginger is going in the house looking for the bank key

and she's just like, you know, she's having like a public episode. Yeah. Like, I just need to find my shit. Yeah. Well, he's got the cop that right. Yeah. Yeah. Him and the cop are awkwardly standing out there like this top that he's definitely paying off. And he's like, how are you? And the cop goes, um, you know, I'm okay. And he goes, you having another kid?

Whatever he's with it normal. He's like, what do people do? Oh yeah. Kids. People care about. Not the spread on the Michigan, Oklahoma. Nobody had Oklahoma. They use a different word on the Michigan, Oklahoma good. Nobody had Oklahoma. They used a different word on the corn. So, listen, in case you haven't figured it out, today's episode is a very special episode because we are talking about one movie and that movie is the masterpiece, Martin Scorsese's Casino, my favorite movie from my favorite director, which would put it really in the conversation

from my favorite movie of all time. If you've been listening to Chopo for any amount of time, like this is probably the movie that we have referenced maybe the most times on the show. I think so. I think like in 2016, we've been calling Marco, we've been comparing Marco Rubio to Philip Green since 2016.

Oh God, he does have the same energy. He looks like him. And to inaugurate season three, I thought I would find a way to like, try to capture what it is about Martin Scorsese's casino that has led it to be the most referenced show on Chopra. Probably my favorite movie of all time if there if I could even, you know Describe such a thing but like what what is it about this movie that like?

Remains every time I see it like if it's if I happen to come across it on television I'm watching it I watch it at least once a year and it's a movie that like Nevada it's become like a constellation for me in my life like like a north star that I can just keep returning to. And like the only thing I can kind of compare it to is like classic era Simpsons in that it's become almost kind of a visual language, like a living metaphor that I can slot into almost any experience or interaction in my life. I mean, Felix, just between you, me, and Matt, like just talking like how many times I've just found occasion to say,

why take a chance? But that's just that way. That is a great way to put it because I was thinking about this too. This is I don't really like the concept of like a favorite movie or like a favorite game, because it's just like the categories are so disparate. And they fulfill such different needs that I don't I don't know how much you truly like any of these things if you can easily pick like a singular favorite. But what movie do I watch the most frequently when it's available? Absolutely this one. And part of it is like

something that this movie gets criticized for when people compare it unfavorably to Goodfellas, which is this idea that it's like, you know, it's not as cohesive as a story as Goodfellas. People almost compare it to a music video. But I kind of think that speaks to how strong it is. Yes. Like, if you look at, if you look at the actual events of this movie and the actual characters, not that much happens. The characters don't really change that much. They start off like an autistic and a violent scumbag, and then they just like get worse. That's one of my favorite lines is when Nicky starts like doing coke and stuff,

he's like, he wasn't the same Nicky I knew. What the fuck are you talking about? Yeah, but but it's like it's there's like a level of like I can't even describe what it is visually, but it's a combination of like comfort, but also, I don't know. It is the visual equivalent to sitting in like an Audi SUV. Yeah. No, Felix, I will attempt to try to because I've been thinking along this this film along the same lines you were and I will attempt to actually like

kind of describe what the visual and emotional experience of this movie is. And you mentioned that, like when people say, oh, Goodfellas is better. Like, you know, that's a pointless argument to have. Like Goodfellas is a perfect movie. It's a masterpiece. But like the thing about Casino that makes a pointless argument to have, like, good fellows is a perfect movie. It's a master goes. But like, the thing about casino that makes it so special to me and what some may diagnose as a weakness is why I actually think it's it's the masterpiece that it is, is that the logic of the movie, it

doesn't follow the logic of like a story. It is the logic of talking to your friends. It's a collection of riffs, digressions, numbers, if you will, like in conjunction with the music, the editing, the camera, the narrative, and the visuals themselves just kind of float around in and out of stories, in and out of people's lives, in service of this broader narrative, this broader portrait of the inferno that is America. This movie is a kaleidoscope of absolute

hilarity, horror, and just human degradation at every level. The people in this movie, like, I can't help but watch this movie like outside the context of like Scorsese's spiritual beliefs and religion because like this is a movie that is a portrait of people who are as far from grace and the love of God as you can imagine. This is a movie about people who are enslaved to money. And the other major thing that I will talk about is the effect of watching this movie and why I and his cast and ever end up the film directing the costumes the music everything the extreme generosity of the highest concentration of like individually perfect moments and scenes I've ever seen in a movie and all I could compare the like kind of visual emotional and physical experience of what watching CINO does to me the The only thing I can compare it to is doing cocaine. Like, yeah, you see Robert De Niro walk out of that while walk out of the restaurant into a car that gets blown up. And it's like, like, for the next three hours, the next three hours,

like time just falls away and you're cascaded in this bubble of like, of like, like I said, music images, like most fun you've ever had. But when that three hours is up, what you're left with is really a carnival of degradation, squalor and horror. Yeah. And one of the main differences that I like have always loved about Casino versus Goodfellas is, well, there are two things like one, this is really like the fall of like Sharon Stone is basically the tale of this movie

it's like her life being destroyed by like all the men around her and her slow Annihilation of her self and her psyche and it's like really difficult to watch It's like the hardest to watch parts of the movie. It's the parts that like, you know when I watch it with my dad He's like I hate these parts. Look at this bitch. But there's that and also an important difference. No character in this movie is having fun at any point. None of the main characters are having a good time.

Yeah, they're all in a casino. None of them. Robert De Niro never smiles even once, unless it's like a crocodile smile he's giving to like a guy on the when the when the when the young employee is just like Mrs. Rostein, you're the most gorgeous woman I've ever seen. You're a very lucky man. And he just goes, thank you. Thank you. That's a nice compliment. He says that's a nice compliment.

Yeah, the little things he says when he's trying to be normal are so fucking funny. Like, he's such a fucking space alien. What Will said about how, yeah, this is a portrait of like the inferno of America, both all the hilarious and horribly violent and like just soul wrenching moments watching like the most groomed woman who has ever lived, her falling deeper and deeper. And like the way that the movie is like, yeah, a collection of rifts, you experience the events of this

and this inferno, this grand portrait. You experience it in the same way that Ace experiences sports. You experience it through components, these individual components that you go deeper into than you would go with any other movie. You're doing the equivalent of ACE like learning the type of fucking wood on the basketball court. And it reminds me of this conversation I was having with somebody about the idea of like, synectity in gaming, where due to technological constraints, where a part is supposed to represent the whole.

Like, you know, the most famous example would be press F to pay respects. Yeah. Where a single button press is supposed to represent these actions that are like, either too emotionally or physically complex to be fully captured with the technology that we have now and how that idea is sort of like disappearing as technology gets better and we get the idea of like full haptic controls becomes closer to reality. Those things are already getting replaced by like boutique animations and many management systems and how it's like a disappearing art form.

This movie is sort of a similar idea, but instead of a single button press, it's like the scene where those two fucking WAP grease balls are kissing the joint. Yeah. Yeah. That hilarious, uncomfortable, amazingly visibly distinct scene, that tells the entire story of like, you know, 20 years of criminal history that went into this.

And that's every scene in the movie. Like, share it with us. It's a mandala, you know? It's like an incredible like, you know, like 3D, you know, like it's like looking into the eye of God, basically. Yeah. Looking into the eye of America, you know, it's like all these little moments like Nicky playing like the son playing baseball and he's like talking to the cops.

And like, I mean, what really needs to be stressed here is that like, how much this movie eschews the traditional three arc narrative structure. Like from the first frame of the movie events just happen and they keep happening and there's and like it doesn't really follow any one master storyline. I mean look it is anchored by the triumvirate of probably three of the best performances you'll ever see from Robert De Niro, Sharon Stone and Joe Pesci. But like, in addition to that, it is buttressed by dozens and dozens of like individually perfect moments and minor characters that are just as memorable as anything Pesci or De Niro or Stone does in the movie. And like I said, like this

Inferno, this cauldron of vice and greed. It's like this meta narrative about the inferno that's America. But also it's like a very it's also a very personal story that I think like anyone can relate to about how you're never really in control, no matter how much power or control you think you have. We're all imbued with like a certain tragic flaw in our character that has sealed our fate. And that's what I mean that this movie kind of like it doesn't really follow a story. There's only tragic predetermination of both the characters in the movie and the larger project of, you know, American greed and vice and crime in the 20th century.

Yeah, I mean, you know, you know where it's going before it even happens. It opens with his car exploding Literally before it's like it's everything's gonna blow up you know everything is gonna like unravel for all these characters and it's gonna be like a nightmare basically and And you just have to watch it happen and it's like so fun to watch at some points but so like this is so tragic and so depressing. And yeah, like it's and it's like three hustlers, like all three of the main characters are hustlers, but in different ways, you know, like,

yeah, and because of that, they each have their own tragic flaw, which which which dooms them. Yeah, in De Niro, Sam, Ace, Ross, Dean, his tragic flaw is believing that like human relationships Are of the same as betting on sports that you can factor in all the odds in fact Like you can you can account for all of the factors in In the gravity or sort of trajectory of a person's life and account for them and plan for it Yeah it's a number of them and that like and that he can that he can constantly that he can be in control of everything And then in his relationship with ginger the idea that like he can he can run the numbers and make this person love him

Yeah, that's his flaw and Sharon stones character. Her flaw is essentially James Woods. Yes Felix the most groomed woman of all time No matter how smart or how good a confident a hustler she is, she still has this one self destructive vulnerability that she's never going to get rid of. And in Joe Pesci's Nikki Santoro, his tragic character flaw is that he is an elite tier psychopath. He's insane. He's the greatest psychos ever. To compare this movie to Goodfellas, which is like, you

know, that like the Joe Pesci role, Tommy DeVito and Goodfellas everyone remembers, you know, do I amuse you? Am I a clown to you? We remember him shooting Michael Imperiali, you know, dance the drink over here, motherfucker. Like all the fucked up insane things Joe Pesci does in casino are outmatched by Nikki Santoro on an order of magnitude that's hard to even describe. Yeah. Nikki Santoro is like he is Carlos the Jackal.

Like he is a world historic terrorist. I always wonder what are the things I love about this movie is the things that they do with narration that I think are so interesting. Like how, by the time you get to the hole in the wall gang, Nicky's narration is like, he is arguably the character who has fun for the longest in the movie. But by that point, the fun is over.

He seems incredibly fucking tired. He seems like, almost like he knows without knowing how this is all going to end. He seems exhausted by all just this idiotic criminality, the breakdown of his personal relationships. But the one thing that always makes me laugh around that point is when they're talking about how they placate the Kansas City bosses and he's like, I had a trick for making the bosses happy.

Every time they wanted me to do something, I did it to a T. And he's like, I had a trick for making the bosses happy. Every time they wanted me to do something, I did it to a T. And he's talking about like murdering people. And it's like, yeah, yeah, that they that you're different from everyone else in the mafia, like doing contract. What does it mean to not do it to a T? Yeah. Oh, part of it is still alive. Felix, I mean, I was thinking about that scene and how it like perfectly encapsulates his psychopathic behavior and

pathology. Because I okay, yeah, the Kansas City, the Midwest bosses, they, you know, they asked him to do a little favor, you know, to send a message. And then we get the the famous Tony Dogg scene. He was one of the toughest Irishmen I ever knew. I mean, we even stuck ice picks in his balls. Yeah. What's the name? The scene where they, Tony dogs, they stay.

Then Joe Pesci, after torturing this guy for days, drags him out and puts his head in a vice. And when he says to him, he says, Tony, I got your head in the fucking vice. He goes, don't make me be a bad guy, Tony. And I just don't think he says, don't make me be a bad guy. He tells him the name of the guy that he was holding out on. He's like, that I love that. There is so much. What the emotion I think about the most with

this movie is the feeling of being like forlorn. Yeah. And it took on like, I don't know, watching it now, this is like the most dedicated like not in the background watch I've given it in like six or seven years because you know, I love the movie, but I've seen it so many times that when I'm putting it on TV, I'm like doing something else. And like one of the things that I thought about while watching specifically the Charlie M scene was how not just this is a type of movie, but that is a type of scene that we just don't see in anything else anymore. Not the idea of like the torture or anything, but like this extremely high tier of violence that's like kind of divorced from, for lack of a better word, lore. Yeah.

I was thinking about how great and how self-encapsulated that entire sequence is. And there are so many things like that in the movie, like the Ichikawa scene, these totally self-contained things with these self-contained amazing one-off characters. Yeah. And the head of the Vice scene is, you know, it's amazing. We get to see Nicky's sociopathy, his self-image of like, well, you know, I kill people and torture them and like erupt their genitalia with hammers. But I'm not a bad guy. Yeah, don't make me be a bad guy.

But, you know, we get to the end of it and the guy just like blirts out Charlie M. You know, we get to the end of it and the guy just like blurts out Charlie M And he goes Charlie M for that fucking piece of shit and even after they mercy kill him He's wandering through the warehouse going So great because if they try to make this movie now There would be a 30-minuteression. Casino 2, Rise of Charlie M. Exactly. We would see Charlie M's dad emigrating to America. We would see Charlie M's sports injury that made him get into crime.

People would be doing video essays that were like, I actually thought Charlie M was a bad guy. I bet there is a video essay like, The Lost Lore of Charlie M was a bad guy, but didn't want to flex on it. I bet there is a video I'd say like, the lost lore of Charlie M. Yeah, I think lore in the right thing is definitely fun. I'm not against lore. I think it's fun when you have to work for it, like in the Dark Souls sense. But like, in a fucking movie, it should be the last thing you're thinking about, how you're going to show the audience the lore and this movie

Never does that all you need to know about Charlie M. Is that that he held out for that fucking pretty And I love in that scene where Pesci says to you Frank Vincent's character Frank Marino where he goes I know you would have ratted by now And like and like the violence of that scene, probably like seconds to the end of this movie, which we'll get to. Yeah, I have to say, when I first saw Casino, the end of this movie physically sickened me. Yeah. Like I was like physically nauseous for like hours after I saw the movie.

And it disturbed me well into like the week after I saw it. But like part and parcel of like like I said the hilarity and horror in this movie is Just like Scorsese's treatment of violence in this movie and like looks Scorsese's a director That's always been associated with like high levels of extreme violence But it's just like the rank of certainty and like and also just like how tossed off and casual the violence in this movie is or that it can erupt out of nowhere at any given moment. I'm thinking two scenes in particular, the scene where Phil Green's silent partner decides to sue him in open court.

Yeah, she was her lawsuit was going pretty good until the bosses decide to settle out of court and then you see like out of nowhere, Joe Pesci, this like tiny man in like a leather jacket and newsboy hat and fucking big Old man glasses run into this old woman's house, and then just dump like ten bullets into her Walks and sitting at her breakfast nook yeah It's like he walked into a Norman Rockwell painting and like I love I love how he like grabs the side of her head too and just like like like grabs the side of her head too and just like like

322 caliber bullets just into her head and then like tilts her neck back and the blood just Like there's no blood anywhere like from the bullets that you really see but it just starts pouring out of her fucking mouth It's like a nightmare. That is one of my favorite like horrible on-screen killings It's like that and the urinal scene from Bullet to the Head. That was her like top two for me. But I love that scene. Hesse mentioned it how he's basically like, again, no lore, you just get these visual cues, but you get the idea of like, he's like,

okay, I have to kill an old person. I should dress up kind of like Dress like it's cold outside Great like just never never alluded to insight into the way his mind works Exactly, and there's so many little like character things like that I mean Sam Rothstein has a ton like um him and Pesci they're talking he's like when they're they meet in the desert you get that amazing shot of the car going across the sunglasses and He's like they're like yelling at each other. They're arguing like a married couple basically Yeah, yeah, it's more. Yeah, there's more like passion and like romance in that argument than any

of the arguments he has of Sharon Stone. His arguments with Sharon Stone are like a father talking to his fucked up, like, failed daughter. Yeah, it's like, yeah, it's a father talking to a failed daughter or like someone scolding their dog because it just peed on the carpet. Like in one scene. Yeah, yeah. That scene where he's trying to make her go to rehab

and he's like, you're the best at anything when you set your mind to it. She's like withdrawing and screaming. Such a fucking idiot. Yeah, completely strung out. He's he's not listening to her at all. He never listens to her in this movie. He she feels the worst anyone has ever felt. He's like, you're a beautiful girl, you don't need this.

Another one of my favorites, when she goes to Nicky and she's begging Nicky for help with Sam, and she does like a bump of coke and he's like, you're a beautiful girl, you don't need to do this stuff, you can ruin your looks. I've seen a lot of girls Her response to him you're so kind Like there are like it's a three-hour movie and not a second is wasted and like I said, I mean like when I compared wasn't this movie to doing cocaine it like you lose track of time because you just are pulled into the momentum of this film, like the momentum and the sort of like events,

as the events just happen and kind of spiral out of control without any real rhyme or reason, but like you are fully contained in this kind of like time travel like experience. And it's just like these the eruptions of violence and hilarity it's just like is it is Vegas is the Tangieros casino is it paradise or inferno is life tragedy or is it comedy and the answer is basically all this all those things at the same time and that

is why like when I think about like movies that could rank among my favorite movies of all time they all do have a similar quality in that, like, they're all movies that I find both laugh out loud, hilarious every time I see them and breathtakingly disturbing and upsetting at the same time. The reason I was like, we got to fucking do Casino on the next season is because, like, my friend was staying with me and do Casino on the next season is because like my friend was staying with me for a while and Casino was on TV or Goodfellas was on TV so I was like oh let's fucking watch Goodfellas and we watched Goodfellas. I like rented it so I didn't have to like do the commercials and then we were like oh that's such a fun movie that's like such a fun like what a fun watch what a comforting movie and then I was like let's watch Casino 2. And then we watched Casino and she was like,

this is like the most fucked up movie I've ever seen. This is really like difficult to watch. And I was like, yeah, I never really noticed before. But that was the moment I was like, this is like one of the best movies of all time. This is like really like a perfect, perfect object. That reminds me of one of the more ace-raucid moments of my life relating to this movie.

In 2020, I like went out with this girl from Tinder and we got back to my, this is when I was living in Rego Park, so like a, you know, like a 50 minute, like lift ride back. And she was like, you know, hey, let's watch something. And I was like, I was desperately trying to find something to watch on like my TCL TV in my living room. And the thing that I, I just saw a casino

and I was like, oh, this is a great movie. And I just watched all three hours of it. She just watched me watch it for three hours. Just pointing at the screen, like look at this part, look at this part. This part's great. I just like forgot the social cue of like, let's watch a movie. Yeah. It's like, yeah, casino.

It's the one. Yeah. I was going to say like, I think another reason this movie like, means so much to me personally and why it's like made so it like Carves just an indelible impression in my mind Is it like I'd seen casino previously before before this but like I remember I own this movie on like the two VHS set Box set and when I started watching this movie at a period in my life that was like every week practically I realized in retrospect that I got so like

enamored or obsessed with this movie because at the time I was dating a girl who was shall we say ginger coated. She was ginger core and I was very I was very like our relationship was somewhat ace and ginger coated. You can find the key in there. Well you know when you love someone you got to trust them because otherwise, what's the point? Yeah, all this money, it doesn't mean anything without trust. Yeah.

Back to the question of love and trust. It's like, for Ace, and like, you know, you can take like the larger, broader meta-narrative about vice and sin and the American project, but like, love in this movie is inseparable from money. And like, the representation of that is the $2 million in cash and jewelry that ace puts in a safety deposit box for ginger Under the assumption that like if I get kidnapped like this is this is gonna be like the payoff money and only ginger will have A key to it and watching it this time though

I was checked like that to me was like for him a guy who only sees human relationships in terms of like money and the odds. The fact that that $2 million is still there and that she has the only key and she hasn't left with it. That's his insurance against because as long as that money is still there, then on some level, she must she must love him. Yeah. And I love like part of a beautiful like visual metaphor in that scene is them both they can't get the safety deposit box in and they're both forcing it in, like trying to force it in kind of like their relationship. They're just trying to force it to like work. And it's like so, it's such like a perfect metaphor and going to what you were saying Will about like what made this movie so indelible to you. I think like I remember that VHS box sex, my dad had it in his like cabinet of VHS tapes. And I remember like one time I was like six years old. This is one of my

like most vivid memories. It was my dad like showing me all his VHS tapes and like telling me what the movies were and being like, you're not allowed to watch this one. I remember just the cover, you know, like that picture of the three of them Joe Pesci like holding the dice and I'm like this movie looks so fucking cool like the single word title Casino like this is the casino The other movies have like, you know Cape Fear, you know Silence of the Lambs these like fancy titles Goodfellas Jaws and then this movie's probably sick. And my dad was like, you can't watch this till you're 18 years old. You don't have to watch this movie. And then of course, like when I was like 12, he was like, fuck, I got to show you it now.

I got to watch it now. I think that's a very fatherly thing where they're like, all right, this is the most fucked up movie ever. I'm not going to show you this movie. I'm not going to show you this movie. I think that's a very fatherly thing where they're like, all right, this is the most fucked up movie ever. Like, I'm not gonna show you it when you're six, in fact, you have to wait till you're in college. But then when you're 11, they're like, honestly, I need to talk about this with somebody.

So they show you T2 when you're seven. Yeah, they show you Die Hard. My dad I Think I can't remember if I told this story before but one time my dad Like I was like 11 or something and my brother was like 10 and at dinner He was like set a line from diehard and he looked at me and my brother and we were just looking at him He's like you guys haven't seen diehard like you thought And then he literally left the house without saying a word.

And like my mom was like, where did your dad go? Like where did he even go? And he comes back. He like comes back because it was like six something, like 650 or something. So he had to leave right away, go to the video store, rent Die Hard and bring it home. And then my mom was like, you can't show them this movie. And he's like, I remember where all the curse words are. So I'll mute it when they come up. And he like literally like every time it's like, mother fuck. And then he mutes like he misses it. Just keeps it muted for like a few seconds.

Like, uh, just in case. And then he unmutes it and it's like, you fucking. And so like every like it's all we heard were the curse words. So many good movie memories. And as you bring it up, it's just the title of the movie Casino. You know, like it sort of tells you everything. And when I when I think about this is the casino movie, it's about a casino, I think about the line that De Niro says in the very beginning of the movie where he's discussing the Tangeris Hotel, and he says, in any other

place in the country, I just be another bookmaker. But here on Mr. Rothstein, I'm a person like something that would get you arrested in any other part of the country has made him like Prince of the City. And he says, it's a morality car wash you arrested in any other part of the country has made him like Prince of the City and he says It's a morality car wash what Lord it does for guys like me what Lord's does for cripples and lepers I'm like that to me this idea of a morality car wash Is very like to me it's sort of a Rosetta Stone for understanding the movie and I think about that in the context of The one of the one of the digressions early in the movie that features I think about that in the context of the one of the one of the digressions

early in the movie that features the Japanese whale Ishikawa, the game God, where you know, like we're the scenes ever deniero explains that like, you know, in running a casino, the cardinal rule is to just keep them gaming at all times because the house always wins. So you always got to be look out for a guy like a whale, a guy with a lot of money, who is like a professional gambler who can come in and like, you know in a few hands of like Baccarat or you know Blackjack or whatever can clean you out of like 30 million dollars or something like that So in the film is he kawa does that and then rather than let him go home to Japan They pretend that the his prep the airplane that they've given him to fly to get his connecting flight is broken.

And we got a great moment with Don Rickles, Billy Sherbert. Better to have this on here than up there. Yeah, better. And you know he improvised every single one of his lines in this one. Yes. He just like off the cuff like it was nothing. And like, so like, they're like, oh, sorry, like, we like we're gonna put you up you have your own for the hotel, everything comp but like and as Ishikawa comes back, the nerd goes no, no gaming no gambling please like you know no no this is just this night is on us no gambling

please and then sure enough he's right back at the table and then he says well he bet small but it didn't last long and then like he can't stop himself from betting big because for a guy like that, it's not that you win $10,000 on a hand. It's that you're losing 90,000 by not betting the money that you do have. And then of course, he does that and loses all his money back to the casino. Yeah, it's this idea that like, we always get it in the end, that like everything in Vegas, like all the glitz and the glamour, the comp to meals and like everything about it like he Says is just designed to separate you from your money And the rule is just keep them inside the casino at all times because the longer you play

The odds will always be in the house's favor and it's this idea that like ace is a guy who runs the house So he thinks that like in his own personal life like that that applies as well But the answer is for all of us the longer you play the sure the odds that you lose and that that applies to everything Yes, and it's like he's kind of like the god in this little kingdom He's like the king, you know, and it is like a microcosm of America, you know, like this foreign guy comes in gives trusts This foreign guy comes in, gives, trusts Americans with the money and just they take it all and

just like run with it and like thanks them for it in the end. Basically, it's like, thanks, I'll be back next week. To your point about that, his outsidersness, I was thinking about this the scene where the infamous I'm the boss headline the Like a student epithets and for not out of principle But just because his his brother-in-law was sick. He's just such an affront to the institution of gambling. Yes That's what I was gonna bring up Yeah, let's talk about the joba breaks I wanted to say this the's talk about the Joe Bob Briggs.

I wanted to say this, the scene where the brother, Joe Bob, says, we're going to have to kick a kike out of town. I think that was the last time a Jew experienced institutional interest in America. That was the exact last time. That the point you make here is because like the scene with God the scene with De Niro and County Commissioner Pat Webb played by like Sam Peckinpah mainstay LQ Jones. Yeah, I mean that guy.

What a face on that guy. Oh yeah, that's the contrast between him and like De Niro shoes and his like snakeskin boots and he's like, like oh I sure do appreciate your time to see this humble old civil servant like me and he's there because his brother-in-law played by the sort of late-night movie critic and you know movie personality Joe Bob Briggs you already referred to is like De Niro says is this guy just another dumb fucking white man or what like you and Don Rickles go he's juiced in he goes you said everyone out here in cowboy boots

is a fucking county commissioner or something. And it's just like, it's the contrast between like the good old boys of Nevada, like the Mormon cowboys who run that state and the Italian mafiosos who have turned it into what it is, have turned Vegas into like the multi-billion dollar gambling industry that it is. But like, it's very important that like,

he fires Joe Bob Briggs and his his brother-in-law comes who's like the real, you know, sort of mover and shaker in Nevada politics to say, like, hey, could you look at it as a favor to me to like rehire this guy because you know, he's family. And De Niro refuses to rehire him, but not out of any principle to stand against like, I don't believe in nepotism, or he's too incompetent to run my business. It's an affront to his idea that he can control everything. And that decision is really like Marx in the movie, a turning point of when it all begins to unravel. Yeah. I love everything about that scene is great. Like it's not out of principle. It's not against nepotism. He even basically says to him, look, I love nepotism. I'm always doing favors to people who don't deserve it.

But he's just an affront to my concept of gambling. And the guy isn't even being an asshole to him when he first gets in. Oh my god. He's very accommodating. He's very accommodating to him. Really nice about it. He's like, why don't you give him

some restaurant administrative job where he can't fuck anything up and De Niro's just being so unreasonable and I love There's that brief shot of De Niro's like, you know, whatever insane shoes he's wearing at that time Yeah, and when he gets up from his desk, he has no pants on and he puts it on to maintain the crease He has no pants on and this is the part of the movie where every every time we first see him in a scene He's taking a Pepto-Bismol. Yeah another nod to his Judaism that I loved Yeah, I love that because like all the like hits all the you know Don't fucking white men they all look exactly like the knights that kicked all the Jews out of England for King Richard. You know? And Casino is, I know we

just talked about how it's antithetical to this idea of like lore in expanded universes now and how movies are done now, but if there is one thing that it expounds on greatly, it is the concept of hierarchies. They're constantly showing these little economic hierarchies. Yes. And I love this one because like the shithead, like Scots-Irish, Native Nevadans are not important. It's what they represent. They are the ultimate rent seekers. By virtue of them being here, they get to like rent seek off of what should be the ultimate rent seeker in the casino in Acerovstate. Like they, America is the house. The longer you play there, you are going to experience like the same thing that people in the West Bank experience. And it's it's like, where is Las Vegas? It's in the it's in the West, you know, it's the Wild West. That's who was there before these, you know, casinos sprung up was were these

cowboy type figures. And they you need to give them their cut of the pie, because in the end, they're the ones who are like maintaining this kind of outlaw state, you know, this area and De Niro's like desire to maintain order, but keep the lawlessness, you know, keep his but have total control over everything. You know, it's like two metals shearing together that really like is his undoing in the end. How's it like that? That's so perfectly articulated. And like what Pat Webb says to him, he goes, you people will never understand. You like you're all our guests here, but you act like you're home. But I got news for you. You ain't home. But that's where we're going to send you if it hair lips the governor has what you just described is so perfectly encapsulated

by the scene in which De Niro has his gaming license hearing and they they vote him down without even hearing his case and then he goes on an extended rant about the unfair you always promised a fair hearing this is an outrageous miscarriage of justice the fact that like he like he takes it upon himself to become a crusader for fairness in the gaming industry after being given being given the keys to an empire of corruption and crime he's just like they they're denying me a gaming license and it's not fair they didn't even hear my case yeah and then when he says to like when Andy Stone played by the comedian in Andy King is talking to Remo Gagy and Remo says what the hell's wrong with him doesn't he know that all those guys he yelled at are friends of ours?

It's like the same people he's in vang against are the ones that have given them the ability to fleece millions of people a year of their like, you know, pensions and fucking retirement money. And yeah, just before we move on from these cowboy guys, I love that like Jodan Briggs as the guy guy one of my favorite little like character moments Uh in the entire movie is when Sam Rothstein is yelling at him and he's like, yes, sir. Mr. Rothstein I'm sorry, sir. And thank you You could tell in his head that he thought like he's gonna love this when I say, thank you Yeah, you know showing me what and just Sam's like it makes him so much more angry

Like it reminds me of the scene with the with the dancers where a guy is trying the same thing with mr Ross needs sir. He's like no need for sir. Mr. Ross need is just fine. Yeah. Oh Yeah with the the French dancers from Paris and he's like literally weighing them all in and she's like, yeah She's eight pounds over what what gives he goes and you can see this tiny little girl like this is the woman ever and you know, you're like flexing her hand in like embarrassment and like shame his Psychotic need for control. He's like no. No, don't give me the right don't don't give me your answers I just want the right answer and this guy finally is getting flustered He's like well

I think maybe she feels like she's under a lot of pressure. Because if she doesn't meet the weight limit, she'll lose her job. And he goes, You know what, she's right, get her out of here. back to Paris. And then Don Rickles goes, What are you doing that girl? She's an institution. He goes, Yeah, I know. That's the problem. She's an institution. She's lazy. But it's like, Yeah, like, and then of course, the scene with the blueberries in the muffins, I want to say I want an equal amount of blueberries in each muffin. And then what is Jeff's face when he looks at him? Just one line in the movie, the chef just crestfallen goes, do you have any idea how

long that's going to take? And he goes, I don't care. I want it done right. Yeah, I love that scene because it's like, again, it's just like a couple lines and a look at the guy's face, but I like stopped the movie and I just thought for like 10 minutes about like how this would play out. Like does in the first day, does the chef think, okay, I'll just like take a handful and put it to each, but no, Ace is probably going to like count it.

Yes, he's going to cut them open and count them and check them. I was thinking the same thing. So I have to do it for the first week at least. When is it going to stop physically counting blueberries? Yeah, I loved everything with the gambling license and like Ace is supposed to be the ultimate cynic basically. The guy who could see the numbers and code behind everything, behind America, basically. Yeah. He's like Neo. He can look at any competition, any supposed contest of skill, and see the thing that will, you know, indicates a sure thing past all the uncertainties that are supposed to make this interesting. And he should know, like, okay, through incredibly

corrupt machinations and God knows however many murders, I get this labor pension fund to let me run this like bribery and fucking fleecing empire. And because I didn't give this stupid hick, like, you know, the beverage coordinator job for, you know, this is in the early 80s, so like $20,000 a year. Yeah. Of like the $400,000 now. They're taking away my license. It should be, like for a guy like that, that should be like an incredibly easy calculation to make. But instead, he decides that not only is his, for the first time ever, he is involved in politics and his sole political issue is that the license hearings aren't fair.

And he uses all that power that he accumulated through like his best friend murdering all these people and all the intimidation and death and cover-ups to give himself a TV show. And the hook of the TV show is like, I'm gonna keep doing this until the gambling guy has a debate with me. And it's like, how do you think that debate would go? Like, what is, they would just go, yeah, aren't you best friends with that guy

who murdered all those people? Who's been indicted 400,000 times? Yeah, like how, I don I know he's just so convinced it like, okay, if people see me debate him, they'll see how right I am. Yeah. And like, why would anyone watch that? But Felix and I love the Sam Aislerosting show part of the movie because it really underscores how utterly delusional Robert De Niro is because like he's a terrible TV host. He's terrible. He is so bad at being a TV host. He thinks he can challenge the guy who like is

rat fucking him behind the scenes to come on TV and have like an honest public debate about the series of bribes and murders that got him to that position in the first place. And like this is really underscored in another scene where like after he loses the gaming license, he goes to meet with Andy Stone, played by Alan King, please pardon my error earlier, played by Alan King, who's the head of the Teamsters Pension Fund. And like I like Andy Stone is trying to explain to him, like, like just step back for a little bit.

Like you can still run the casino. And he's like, you don't understand. I have to be visible. I have to be out there we're working on a Supreme Court case but they're this level of scrutiny on their empire yeah as you can see we committed all these murders in the 70s. They gave me the right to this casino. We found we found this real estate

Jag off with a comb over her. And so that makes all the murders OK. And now they're not like, I don't do one bribe and now I'm an asshole. Like what precedent would even be said Like Pesci brings it up to when he brings them out to the desert He's like why the fuck are you on TV look like a fucking idiot? And he's like I need a platform guys back home think you went bad shit You platform

I need a platform. I know, and like, in De Niro's response to that, it's like, you know how this is. Like, you know the way the media takes things out of context. It's like, this guy's a mass murderer. Like, the idea that Joe Pesci would understand that and be like, well, yeah, I mean, I am starting my own TV show about all the murders I'm accused of. I'm going to challenge the prosecutors in all my open murder cases to debates. I love also I love like um cuz Pesci at one point is like an inch away from killing Sam and he's like so fucking close to it, and he's like get the guys ready dig a hole and know where it is and

He's like ready to kill him but then Sharon Stone comes to him and asks him to kill him And he immediately changes his mind and is like no fucking way absolutely not he's my friend Completely like you were literally were gonna kill him and he like those Sharon Stone down the stairs for that like for even asking that and It kind of brings them back together because it's like the rift in the relationship is repaired by them both uniting to kind of destroy Sharon Stone's life. It's like so it's like he's such a psycho. It's almost unfortunate that like these are such incredible like career defining performances from both Pesci and De Niro. Two of my favorite performances

they've ever done or really in any movie ever because I feel like whenever you talk about this movie you get so wrapped up in every like hilarious tragic telling scene that conveys all these like incredibly minute emotions and like sort of personality types, then it overshadows what I think is maybe the best performance in the movie. Oh, absolutely. And something I didn't think about, like I've loved this movie since the first time I saw it when I was like, you know, 13 or 14. But something that I didn't pick up then that I picked up more now as an adult is I think this is like one of the best portrayals of like how like being groomed could like really fuck up your life. Yeah.

Because she, yeah, like she's this incredibly smart and competent and like she's a beautiful woman and like an operator. She knows how things work. But my favorite thing to do is to watch Ginger work the room. Everyone loved her. But because of this like foundational event brought on by James Woods playing himself. And this is a real stretch for him. Bulletproof casting of James Woods as Lester Diamond, the country club golf hustler and pimp.

I got into character by doing nothing. I think about James Woods in this movie and I think about his role in Oliver Stone's Any Given Sunday. And I really wonder if he knew he was in a movie in either of the they were just like he wandered on set and they were like, James, what do you feel about your girlfriend dating a black

guy and they were like, roll. With this one, with this one, they gave him like the hypnotherapy from MGSV. And we're like, this is the 14 year old you've always been dating. She's all grown up now. But it's so great because yeah, she's such a hyper competent, hyper aware operator capable of all types of like social subterfuge and can rapture anyone she talks to. But yeah, because of this foundational, awful event in her life and ongoing event, like it fundamentally alters how she sees like not just men, but like men in a position of perceived authority. Yeah. Yeah. She just just like crumbles in their face. And so it's so fucking like devastating for all of her confidence and wilds

and beauty. At the end of the day, she's still programmed to like need the authority and protection of a really evil man. Yeah, like that. That's it. Ultimately, like, it just charts her on this course of like, absolute, you know, I mean, like, you can describe her character as greedy, but like, I think she's just basically like a survivor. And as she says to Sam, she's like, you know, or she's like, you know, or to Nikki about her relationship with Sam, you know, I'm a working girl. So there's no way I would enter like a situation like this if I don't know I'm going to get covered on the back end. She's

looking out for herself. But ultimately, like because of you know, you know, this foundationally traumatic event in her life, she can never free herself from the need to be like under the thumb of these like violent, disgusting men. Yeah, it's really it's like, it's like, she's both like, by the end of the movie is so pitiful and heartbreaking, like what happens to her character. I love Sam being in his voiceover. The narration in this, they do it a little in Goodfellas, but in this they really take

it to the next level where in the narration it's like, these guys are dumb as hell. They're mistreating the bench. Yeah, yeah. They don't understand what's going on. They're lying to us in the narration it's like these guys are dumb as hell. They're mistreating. Yeah, yeah. They don't understand what's going on. They're lying to us in the narration. Like when Sam's like, I never understood what she saw in that Lester Diamond guy. It's like, oh my God, dude. But the my for me, my favorite scene in the movie, which is saying like a lot, is the scene where she comes back to Sam after like running away with Lester

with $25,000 and she is with Sam, she's like sitting with him at the dinner table and she's like trying to make this work. She's like crying, she's like apologetic and she's like her eyes are just screaming at him like, please help me, please help me. And she's like, you know, trying to have a conversation with him like a human being, but he just keeps going like, what'd you spend the 25,000 on? I mean, he's like trying to run the numbers. He's itemizing how it like, yeah, like a watch. That's 5,000.

Yeah. A watch and a new suit. That's $5,000. And I see his suits. He's not spending $3,000 on a suit. That's generous. And what, like 10 suits? Like she goes, I got him a watch too. And he's like, you wouldn't know what a good watch is. Yeah. And as he's like, keeps talking, he won't shut up about this. You see a tear like rolled down her face. And right then in that moment,

it's like the moment she realized like, I am never getting out of this. Like I, my life is fucked up permanently and it's never gonna get better. And like that's it. Like it's over for me. And just that look in her eyes is so heartbreaking. It really like, it's so fucking devastating. It's devastating but it's preceded by one of the other hilarious sequences in this movie

of them attempting to kidnap DeNiro's daughter and Like it basically means going to Beverly Hills with James Woods and your daughter Doing the scene where she's cutting up coke in front of her like don't do that And she goes yeah, don't do this is so funny and and I'm like yeah What is I don't there are a lot of movies that are like bleaker than this But there are none that are like as funny while being bleak. Yeah.

Like it's really, it's really up there. I love that entire sequence of both the scene that Hessey talked about and the fucking hair brain kidnapping attempt before that. Because during that scene, James Woods loses like a you're a poopy head argument. Yes, he's telling you, telling Sharon Stone how he's going to shut up. He's telling Sharon Stone how he's going to defeat the mob. And that's going on. He's losing it.

He's getting dog walked by a seven year old. Yeah, he's getting he's getting outwitted by an eight year old. And like in this scene, like De Niro uses his like underworld contacts to track them down and like call the house that they're staying at and James Lewis picks up the phone he's like I who's this and he's like oh Sam sorry ginger's not here right now and you like you can see him like rolling his eyes on the end of the phone and then he tells ginger that like yeah I just talked to your husband, the mob boss. But like, and then he's like, she's like, So he knows where we are is what you're saying? So he called here. He just called here.

He doesn't know anything. He's sitting by the phone like a dumbbell. And then he goes, like a dumbbell. And then he's like, he's like, we've always wanted to do it. But now change your hair, get plastic surgery. We're going to Europe. We've always dreamed of it now We're living it. Let's go Will he says now we now you can finally get the plastic surgery like I always wanted you Beautiful

The most beautiful woman of all time. He's such a piece of shit. It is so... God, what a fucking perfect scene. And it's great too, because it's the first time that we see Ginger really like, you know, she probably knows like what a useless idiot James was is. But this is the first time we really see her openly acknowledge that. Yeah. Where she's like, he called your house, you fucking idiot. And he's watching. He's probably has two guys watching the house right now. He doesn't have anything.

Yeah, he doesn't have anything. And then you might do. This is after this is after the this sequence takes place well after the scene where De Niro has already caught her trying to give him money and then like interrupts their little tete-a-tete at a diner, drags him out of the diner to be beaten viciously by his goons. He's just like, this guy's a, this guy's a jag off, he's got nothing. It's such a great scene because she's watching both how fucking stupid and myopic

this idiot is. And there's this internal thing where she's like, oh my God, this is the guy who altered the course of my life forever. Yeah. Like, you know, whether she says it that explicitly or not, there is this realization of like, oh my God, he's just another fucking idiot. Yeah. Like the one true thing kind of that Ace ever says about her when he's like the ginger I know would never get that guy at the time of day.

Yeah, you're right. But you know, he happened to meet her when she was 14. Yeah. When she in his words, when you had those stupid braces. Yeah. Oh, the scene where she calls him on her wedding night. Oh, once again, like she's just gotten married and she's calling James Woods tearfully. And you see James Woods inside the conversation and like he's in a kimono cutting up cocaine with another woman. He's going, baby, baby, baby, this is the best thing for you. Think about it. You'll have security. But like the way he kind of like, you can see like he goes back into grooming mode. And yes, like, can you feel me? Can you feel me in the pit of your stomach? Can you feel me inside you? I'm looking at you for the first time I'm looking at you and I'm seeing a little 14 year old like little little long-legged cult with stupid braces That's what I see every time I look at you and like that scene is so

Heartbreaking and like nauseating at the same time because you can tell like in a certain sense That fucked up like relationship of getting turned out when she was a teenager by the world's biggest scumbag and loser Is still probably the closest thing she's experienced to yeah in her life Yeah 100% And like, you know, there's a lot of talk about like the central tragedy of De Niro, because it is like, probably the big, the most oft repeated theme of the movie that he cannot truly enjoy anything, any of the things in life that are supposed to be driven by passion or chance or anything, because it is antithetical to the core way he operates. But with with Ginger, there's like a more tragic thing that instead of like constantly

going through these situations that she doesn't really enjoy, like De Niro, she's instead condemned to keep finding different Lester diamonds. Yeah, the rest of her life, whether she enjoys it or not. You can see it like when De Niro first proposes to her and shit, she is like, no, this isn't a good idea for either of us, I don't wanna marry you, I don't love you, it's not gonna be good for either of us. She literally says, I don't love you, and De Niro's response is, what's love anyway,

other than a mutual respect that grows between two people? When he says, you know, it's a foundation, I almost like, the first time I watched it I thought he meant that they could literally start a foundation together. Yeah. But that is like something Ace would do towards the end of the movie.

Start like the Ace and Ginger Roberts foundation that helps like disadvantaged gamblers. They teach us kids how to gamble. They keep winning. It helps gamblers who keep winning. Lose their money. Obviously, Sam A. Thorakstein despises Lester Diamond for obvious reasons, but like, I think about it like his attitude to Lester is like, kind of the same as like his attitude toward Joe Bob Briggs when like he really when he fires

Joe Bob Briggs, and it's because Joe Bob Briggs is like, like three slot machines have just hit jackpot. And they were like, obviously set up. And he was like, how come like, how could you not see what was happening? And he was like, Well, gee, Mr. Rossi, it's a casino people got to win sometimes. And he's like, now you're really pissing me off. Because the French is like, personal sense of gambling. Yeah his intelligence but like his is like his attitude towards Lester Diamond is like the like in the scene with him and Sharon Stone where he's itemizing

like what theoretically like how much money she could have spent on him buying him a suit and a watch he'd like he's disgusted by him because like he doesn't he doesn't dress well and like isn't cool like he is but they're like Sam is like smarter than Lester Diamond, but they're still basically the same guy. But De Niro has like a closet with like 80,000 Armani suits in it. And Lester Diamond is wearing like the world's shittiest mustache and leisure suit as he like, you know, catches 20 grand off his former

former bottom bitch or whatever. Yeah. And he is like to him, Ginger's getting married and he hears that. He's like, oh, this is great. I can get my twenty five thousand dollars that I need. So ridiculous. Then that is amazing. It's like I know it's like the 70s and 80s, but still like you're aware that this woman on some you love on some level or think you love

or whatever that you have a kid with you're aware that at age 14 she was manipulated into being a prostitute for this fucking scumbag and your biggest criticisms of him are like he doesn't know what a good watch is. Yeah exactly. Exactly. It's like his anger at the gaming commission that they're not fair. or like, he doesn't know what a good watch is. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It's like his anger at the gaming commission that they're not fair. It's like it's essential delusion that he had, like his inability to like

understand like the evil that's just surrounded the courses through like every molecule that surrounds him. Yeah. For whatever you can say about how much of a fucking sociopath Joe Pesci is in this movie. He's honest He knows who he is Almost He does get her to give him a head at the end by being like yeah, no he's terrible Okay, we need to talk about that soon

But if he was in this situation of like a woman he would oh yeah was like oh There's this guy that I you know when I was 14 he would fucking kill that you would cut his dick off and shove it in his mouth kill that guy but with ace it's like okay you have to stop seeing your rapist yes literally yeah okay we talk about like one of the most disturbing scenes of this movie to me is the scene where Sharon Stone and Joe Pesci Like hook up or where Sharon Stone says to Joe Pesci. I need a new sponsor because like oh yeah this point like she she knows that like it is

permanently on the outs with With ace that like that relationship is over and she needs to like she needs to free herself of That like that relationship is over and she needs to like she needs to free herself of The power and authority control that this guy has over her life And the only way she can do that is by attaching her legs to a guy who's even more evil than he is and the scene We're like Pesci is like comforting her and they're both like kind of Commiserating because they both have known ace for a very long time and he's like, you know, yeah ginger He really fucked up out here, didn't he? You know

like I don't know what happened to our good friend. And she just gets closer and closer to him. And the way he keeps rubbing her is like, oh, is so disgusting. And then he's like, I need a new sponsor. And he's like, yeah, that's what you want. All right, that's what you want. And then they like have the world's most disgusting kiss for like a half a second. And then he just like immediately like leans back and just pushes her head into his crotch. Yes. Oh my god. Horrible blowjob scene I've ever seen in a movie.

It's not only by the scene a few a few mere minutes later where you see her him grunting over her like a fucking dog. Yeah. Slobbering on her in a fucking hotel bed. There's something like when they when they're like in the same room together there's something almost childish about him. Like it's it's like a teenage boy who's with like in the same room as a beautiful woman and is trying to talk to her. But like if that teenage boy was a psycho who like could like do anything he wanted like it.

Benny. Yeah. Benny for Benny's video. Yeah. literally. I see this, you know, I always think about with that and like, that I watched back again, like I rewound the movie. One of the only times I ever did it for a movie that I've seen like probably 30 times now is the first scene where she tries seducing him, where she's complaining to him about how Ace got Lester like beat up and like you know he could have killed him yeah and the same scene where he goes I've seen a lot of beautiful girls ruin their looks with that yeah yeah yeah the way the way that like she towers over him and she's sort of like cradling his head

and trying to like she's trying to move between like a regular like, whop friend mouth kiss to like a romantic kiss. And Joe Pesci is just standing there like a soldier trying not to. It's so good. Because every time we see him after that, he's so coked up and like, and like drunk and physically physically deteriorated, that he is only able to get off by like some of the most horrifying blowjob acting I've ever seen in a regular movie. Yeah. Milk fed veal, you can pound that.

Slide over honey. Shove that woman into the seat of his gigantic car. And then he just keeps talking about Veal as her head goes down. Yeah. Oh, I love that because he's like, let me show you the kitchen. Let me show you the kitchen. And then it cuts to them walking to the car and he's still talking about the kitchen. He's like, you can tell you have a good kitchen by the veal in the kitchen. Yes. I think the three greatest on screen sex scene performances

that I've seen are, one, Seth Bullock, his hard but workman-like pumps into all McGarrett. Yes, dude. So the greatest character interpretation through sex scenes I've ever seen, Timothy Alphonso, a genius. Tony Soprano, who I think Gandolfini, another great actor, he probably got the idea for the gross way that Tony Soprano has sex from Joe Pesci scenes in these movies. Oh, absolutely.

Which are, that is number one for me. These are the greatest character interpretations through sex scenes ever. Yeah. No, it's, there really is a parallel. So we've talked about, a little bit about, we've talked a little bit about each of the main characters and I would like to return to Pesci in a little bit but before we do I'd like to bring up what I think is probably like maybe my favorite little corner of this movie, my favorite sort of little collection of people outside the main characters that I think makes this

movie truly special and that is the collection of elderly grease balls that are the Midwest bosses. Oh my God. That are truly the real power behind everything. Everything they do is so casual. Yeah, I like, and specifically the head, the most powerful of the Midwest bosses is Remo Gagy. like I forget the name of the actor who portrays this guy, but like he looks like a toad He looks and sounds like a toad and like one of the things that I find so

Fascinating and hilarious about this movie and its portrayal of like crime and like I said the inferno of America is this like crime and like I said, the inferno of America is this like Greek pantheon of like the real gods behind Las Vegas are a collection of some of the oldest and dumbest crooks imaginable. Yes, yes. Remo is always like surprised every time anything happens. He's always act so surprised. I love the part where he basically makes the decision to like kill pretty much everyone in Las Vegas. And like him making that decision, it's almost like he's like trying to decide whether to get lettuce on his like sandwich or not because his wife is telling him to eat more greens, but he doesn't want to. Yeah, I love, again, you know, a great, they're so great and so efficient and so exhaustive in demonstrating hierarchy.

Remo his character in the way that he shows up in all these scenes. It reminds me of one of my favorite lines ever in the show Trailer Park Boys, which is, Julian isn't smart, he's just smarter than all of them. And one of the things they introduced Remo and like little flashback to years ago back home. And like we're talking about like De Niro got the job in Vegas because he was like the best oddsmaker and he made more money for the mob by just giving them like betting tips essentially. Like he, he was like De Niro is so good at betting that when he places a bet all the odds change for like every other Bookmaker in the country because they figure he must know something or that like he's just that good

So like he comes into like again one of the many like dilapidated like mob hangouts of like people who run a multi-million dollar empire But for the most part they just sit in like a stock room staring at each other and bickering with their like brother-in-law and mother over like a big pot of tomato sauce. When it shows the building and it's like in the middle it's like a parking lot. Parking lot in Kansas City. They're like of course like you know Remo loved Ace because he was this is in Nicky's voiceover he's of course, Remo loved Ace because he was a degenerate fucking gambler who never won anything and he's like, he's like losing at cards to another like ancient Italian mummy, he's going, oh, what the hell, he's just getting frustrated. And then I love the scene where like,

he brings Nick, like Ace just gives him a huge envelope of money and like Nicky's there and this is like sort of back in the day when they were starting out and Remo like sort of like ushers Nicky over to him. He's like, uh, Nicky, the guy, see that guy over there? That guy, he's making a lot of money for us right now. So I want you to just keep an eye out for him. You know, not like, not like your other friends out there in the streets who don't have brains, you know,

You know. Disposable fucking crack. He tasked Nicky with like looking out for Ace, which is established in the next scene. Looking out for Ace means shoving a fountain pen into the throat of a guy who mildly casually insults him at a bar. Yeah, that's like looking out for their investment is like another like horrifying moment. Oh, God. The guy crying on the ground. You hear that? Is your little girl? Did you hear that guy?

It's so great because like before he bothers that guy about his pen, Frankie and and Joe Pesci are they're doing their normal thing of every time we hear them before a big scene or incident. They're just being awful to each like Joe Pesci is just like, what does he say in this scene where they're talking about the odds on some game? How he goes, how can he never tells me because you're a jerk off? That's why I love Frank Vincent. All Ace is doing in that scene is just staring off into the fucking distance

until he sees a nice pen. And I know it's zooming in on his face as he's like watching him like, like as he's watching Joe Pesci fucking like annihilate this guy. And like the voiceover is just like, Nicky was a little like a little nuts. I also love Frank Vincent does this thing in one scene. I can't remember which scene. It might have been when Pesci talks to the two grease balls casing the joint where like after he talks to him Frank Vincent is like walking away behind him and he just points at him. That's the scene where Sam Sam explains that when Nikki when he first moves to Vegas ace because of his like intelligence and gambling is

Basically just prints money for the Mafia like he yeah, he's figured out a way not to lose Whereas pesky has just been like stealing from they just robbing and killing people his entire life But he hasn't figured out a way not to lose and when he gets to Vegas He figures it out and they'd explain it by like he places a bet with a bookie And if he wins the bet he collects his money if he figures it out. And they'd explain it by like, he places a bet with a bookie. And if he wins the bet, he collects his money. If he loses the bet, he collects his money. And he goes to see he goes to see this like this bookie and like, Oh, oh, hey, Nicky. Well, good to see you.

And he goes, Hey, he goes, Yeah, you got that thing for me. And he goes, I'm a little confused, Nicky. I thought you was late. He goes, Oh, you're confused. What? Maybe I put your fucking head through this glass right here And they go like he has the money ready, and he goes yeah, you were confused That's why you had it ready, and then like as they're going away Frank Vincent points in him. It goes get smart When like Joe Pesci does that to like the banker He's in aces, which is filled with horse

statues and paintings of horses. Like, and he's like tells the banker he opens the conversation with. I've been trying to call you. You've been dodging my calls. You've been running away from me. And he like tells Pesci like, you know, I said there were there were risks

with this investment that you made. And Pesci is basically like, I tell you what I'm gonna come tomorrow to the bank and I'm gonna collect my money or no like after he explains that Pesci lost all his money Pesci's like I think I think I'm gonna want to pull my money out I don't think I want to make this investment anymore and he's like well it's all gone and he's like tell you what I'm gonna come by in the morning and you're gonna have my money for me And if you don't I'm gonna fucking kill you like I'm gonna split your head open and then around the time I'm getting out of jail. You'll be getting your coma. Hopefully and you know what I'll do it again

I'll fuck your head open again. I'll give a fuck about jail. That's what I do. That's my job. I'm crazy And like he says, I don't get I don't give a fuck about jail. That's my job That's what I do and like that to me like so perfectly encapsulates like his psychopathy and how like even in the world that they exist in a world of crime and Everyone associated with it like even tangentially Nobody nobody really until the very end Yeah, we'll get to has any idea how to deal with someone like that. Because he's essentially a guy, he has no limits.

There is nothing that can constrain him. There is no line that he's not willing to cross. And especially when he gets to Vegas, because the cops there, they explain in the voiceover, Sam's voiceover, the cops there had never seen anything like this guy. Like, he was like, blowing holes in walls, like, stealing from banks, like, just doing all these fucking crimes with the Hole in the Wall gang.

And they just like, literally have no way to deal with him. And I love the scene where he's golfing, and the, uh, like, FBI plane has to land on the fairway of the golf course well Sam is having his gambling commission like here like meeting to get his gaming license and there's like a plane with two FBI guys that lands on the The guys run like because they were flying around watching him so long It ran out of gas and then she starts betting on if they can hit the plane with a golf ball like there are so many moments in this movie where Pesci has like crossed the line. And like they're like, for instance, when they put him in the black book,

which means he can't enter a single casino in Las Vegas. And like he just doesn't get it. Like he's not he's not constrained by like the law or certainly not morality. And I love that, like the bargaining process with Ace, where he's like, explain like you're in the black book, you're never getting out. Like not only does it mean that you can't enter any of the casinos, but like every FBI agent in the country now is aware of your name and looking out for you.

And he's like, okay, theoretically, for instance, what if I wanted to go into the restaurant that happens to be in the casino to get one of those sandwiches I like? And he's like, you can't even step in the parking lot. Like, there's so many moments where like Pesci has brought down an insane amount of heat on him and ace and his response every time is to just double down. Yeah, which gets to like my favorite sequence in the movie and probably my favorite, like five to six minutes of any movie ever is the Can't You Hear Me Knocking section of the movie. Oh, my God. Yeah. Almost the entire Rolling Stone song. And it just gives you like just a vision of like what a day in a day in the life

of Nikki. Yeah. And just like and like the answer is like there is he has no limits. They're like every single person he encounters. He is just robbing, exploiting, humiliating or killing. Yeah. And the last part when he's talking to the guy and he's like, I just gave you money. Like your wife had to call me. She says the lights are off in her house, the heat's off. And did you gamble the money away? And like the guy is just like, it's this like pathetic gambler, like loser.

It was like some guys on the street. I owe money to them, the president. Like, whether it's it's it's the degenerate gambler that he humiliates, the bookie that he threatens to put his head through the glass. And like at every moment in this movie, it's one of the most hilarious and terrifying parts of the movie. All of Joe Pesci's victims are the most pitiful looking men I've ever seen in a movie and he's just like grinding them into dirt and the scene where he humiliates the gambler by being like you call yourself a man you know you're a lying degenerate lowlife fucking degenerate

gambling prick and then like humiliates him and then but only to give him the money that he was asking to borrow in the first place and I love that you said like this idea that like nobody in this movie is having fun. Like Pesci has chosen a profession of lending money to gamblers who are addicted to gambling so that they can lose money and be his slaves forever until he kills them. And then he just gets mad at them for being of low character, of not caring about their families or kids when he's in, he's like only enabling them to further ruin their lives. And he's just like, you call yourself a man. Why don't you stand up and take some responsibility?

And one of the best things at the end of that sequence is when it's like, no matter what Nicky was doing the night before, he always came home and made breakfast for his little son. And it's like a very it's like an extremely it really shows like Pesci's acting range and how just how fucking good he is. Because like it's such a tender moment between him and his son. He's like, so yeah, he's like, not too much butter, right? You know why? He goes, the little kid is so cute.

He goes, because it clogs your heart. And he's like, look how smart you are. I love you. I love the inclusion of that scene because it's like this little moment of like him being very tender and loving to his his son but like it's such a funny punch line because it it comes after showing him do like a dozen of the most evil things imaginable and I love that little moment is like is there for the people who watch these movies to be like you know what the mob they had old school values. You know, they had respect for you. That's a real man. You want to see Chief Keef do that. I love that. That's a great point about his his loan sharking business, which they don't spend a lot of time on. They don't need to again. No lore. Yeah.

But it reminds me of I forget the guy in Red Dead Redemption 2 who he's the loan shark for the Vanderlyn gang. But he's always loaning money to like guys that live in caves. People wear barrels. It's like a woman with a dead husband. Like, yeah, poor kids. He's like, woman with a dead husband and like four kids. He's like, all right, Arthur, we've got some bad performing loans.

This hay farmer that I loaned the equivalent of $10,000 to is paying up. I wonder why. Yeah, those missions are so fun because no one ever has the money. Never. The last one you go on is you literally have to go to go to a cave where a guy gets killed by like a snake. So I like another aspect of like of you know

them them these guys these two friends who like most of the movie is just them telling you what's happening their narrations they're telling you like this story that goes in and out of like which one is relating it to you but the point is that like as pety says in the very beginning turns out it was the last time street guys like us were ever given anything that fucking valuable ever again they're put in charge of a multi-million dollar empire and they destroy it all and one of the aspects I really like about that is like they make it pretty clear that like when they started out all of like the Vegas police and government were like totally ready to just let them do what they wanted to do within the baseball game

and then like and then within like a couple years Pesci is getting coked up and just like unloading a clip of like an Uzi into the house of a police officer. Into his family home. I mean just to bring it back real quick I know we're on Pesci but when you said him shaking down the degenerate gamblers and like you know putting the fear of God in them I got it reminds me of the famous scene everyone's dad's favorite scene when they catch the guy cheating in the car cheat scene again like two of the most pitiful looking men I've ever seen in my life yeah yeah they're crooks but like I feel so bad for this guy you know. I feel so fucking bad. You could have the money and the hammer. You could get the guy who gets his hands smashed with a ball peen hammer. One of the most disgusting

special effects of all time. But like, okay, again, another moment of absolute terror and hilarity is like the guy who was his partner when he's trying to leave the casino with his winnings and of all people, Don Rickles just sort of descends on him and he's just like, Billy Sherbet, manager of the casino. That's a lot of money to be counting out there. Why don't we, why don't you come with me to a private room and hey, why don't you send up a bottle of champagne? Some really nice.

And he's like, I'd really like to leave. And then you just see two security guards flank him. And the next thing he knows, he's just in like the hardware room under the casino with his friends mangled hand look what they did to my head i i love i love those guys they're my favorite guys that get manned in the course of the movie because they did like it's implied that they were like they like predate ace and yeah and pesci and everyone by like years and years have been doing this to like, every casino run by like Howard Hughes or whoever was operating in Vegas before them. And Will is exactly right.

They're so pitiful looking. They look like they're from they're like, from a live taping of a Smothers Brothers. By the way, Dick Smothers is in this movie. Yes, he plays Harry Reid. I mean like a little bit of actual casino lore. Dick Smothers' character in this movie is based on former Democratic Majority Leader Harry Reid. In real life, of course, someone tried to bribe Harry Reid like in this movie.

It was an FBI, I I think was an agent working undercover actually and he they had to bust in because Harry Reid started strangling him. He was a tough guy. About the like the gambling guys I love maybe my favorite sequence in the entire movie and just such a perfect testament to the airtight, laser-focused, insanely amazing filmmaking is the scene where they're explaining the hierarchy of the casino and they're like, the dealers are watched by the pit bosses. The pit bosses are watched by the floor bosses. The floor bosses are watched by the manager.

The casino manager. Yeah. Yeah. bosses are watched by the floor bosses the floor bosses are watched by the casino manager yeah yeah I'm watching the casino manager and the eye in the sky watches us all and then like that that's also where he first sees Sharon Stone and he's like in the back room you know smoking as it's like slowly zooming into him and you see Sharon Stone like winning and being happy, but like, leasing this guy. And also pocketing chips. Yeah, pocketing chips.

And it's like, oh my God, one of the best character introductions of all time when you first see her, because it's so impersonal. It's like the one of the worst, craziest meet-cutes of all time. It's like, he's like watching her on TV basically. I'd like to get that. Because part of it is that he always wins, he always gets everything he wants.

No one ever beats him. And he sees Sharon Stone beating him and he's like, I need to marry her. That's the only thing I can do. Like he sees Sharon Stone beating him and he's like, I need to marry her. Like that's the only thing I can do. Like that's the only way I can like get around this. And I think it's also very telling because like his introduction to her character is that he only sees her because he's like taking part in the like, you know, global surveillance of the casino to catch people out for stealing and cheating.

And that's exactly what he does. He sees her steal and cheat. And then like, he's like, ah, which is like normally for anyone else. If for anyone else, you know, he would he would stitch that up right away, you know, there wouldn't be a single thing that would miss his attention. But he's like, oh, here's a woman who's a cheat and a thief. I'd like to get to know her and control her and stop her from cheating and stealing all the time. It really is like he's trying to groom her into not into being a wife rather than like a prostitute, a child prostitute. Like, yeah, but he's using the same tactics that like a, like a dad would use kind of like, you know, the paternalistic shit with her, with all the characters is so crazy. Every scene where, I think we already talked about the scene where he's first trying to

get her to go to rehab, and he goes, there are lots of great places now. Discreet, no names, no papers. Like that's the first, she's withdrawing. The worst you could possibly fucking feel. She is in hell. She's trapped in this horrible marriage that now that they have a daughter, she can't just walk out of her worst nightmare. Yeah. For someone who's lived a life like that, they are tied to. Yeah.

And he's like, we can get you help because it won't embarrass me. Yeah, literally. Yeah. I love it. She says something like, I've never had to ask anyone for anything in my life. And you're making me beg. Like, it's so it's so, like, upsetting. And that scene where she's like laying on the bed and like withdrawing the lighting in that scene is so crazy. It really like feels like the lighting of the sun coming up, but it's like barely through the window and you're dreading it coming through the window more.

Oh god. Yeah, it's such a like a real... It's so like... This movie really captures like every emotional beat that it wants to give you. It like thrusts it upon you. like with such pinpoint like surgical accuracy. It's unbelievable. Another scene and aspect of the movie that I'd like to talk about, like returning to the theme that like the people in charge of all of this, whether it's Las Vegas or the United States are not geniuses.

And in fact, most of them are submental cretins. I think of the scene with the introduction of the character, the Kansas City underboss Artie Piscano and the grocery store he runs with his mother and brother-in-law. And it's like, it sells the point that like, as much control as you think you can have over something, you're never really in control because all it takes

is like I said, one of these submental cretins just complaining to his brother-in-law and mother and not knowing that he's on an FBI wire that ruins everything. The scene with the Catherine Scorsese cameo Marty's mother playing his mother and Artie Piscano is just being put in charge of making sure that no one skims the skim that they're stealing from the casino. People are starting to steal from the money they're stealing. Well, sorry. Well, do you remember what they say when they first find out about the skim?

And she's like, yeah, a guy who helps you steal is going to steal from you. Makes sense, don't it? Yeah. But Piscano says the skimmer skimming from us defeats the entire purpose. This free money that we're stealing. Yeah, I will not do it. That's our money. That's our money. And there's someone stealing it from us. I love it.

Like it's like like the rest of the bosses start ordering this complete idiot to start going out to Vegas and doing what? Making reports to them on who's stealing their money or whatever. And then he's like, he's like, I can't keep laying money out of my own pocket and see nothing return so he starts keeping expense reports It's unreal and the thing that he's complaining about is so the reason he's complaining is he's like I've got to make another trip down there again. They got me going back and forth. I'm paying for my own plane ticket Stupidest reason to get caught I Love you one like little detail

I love about that scene is and like this is the type of thing you don't fully catch when you're like 14 watching it That it seems obvious now, but like I love how during that scene. He's you know the famous ma. I said freaking live I love how during that scene, he's, you know, the famous, ma, I said freaking, line. Like he's trying to keep his cursing under control because his mom is just, she's not even like yelling at him. She's just like, oh, that sounds so boring. She's so funny and cute. We're like, oh my god.

She's just like so good. But he's also like openly talking about the machinations of their vast criminal conspiracy. Where tons of, and openly talking about the machinations of their vast criminal conspiracy Where tons of and like talking about murders he's committed and wants to commit and his mom is like fine Like she's like, well, yeah my both my sons are in the mafia. Hey, no cursing. Yeah Weirdness of that like Re-watching it. It's just like this is how rich the movie is. It's like every no matter how many times you see it, there's always like one detail that escape your attention on the last time you saw it.

Yeah. For me, like in this scene, it's like as Artie Piscano gets more and more worked up, like just confessing to the FBI unbeknownst to him, he's like, I don't care if it is that cocksucket green, I'll hit the ball in the head with a freaking shovel and leave him in the fucking... And like, as don't care if it is that cocksucket green. I'll hit them in the head with a fricking shuffle. Leave them in the book. And like, like as he's getting more and more worked up, he like back. I think I don't know if this is planned or not, but like he backs into like, uh, like a grocery store stack of olive oil bottles and knocks them over. And he's like, I can't take it anymore.

The other detail in that scene that is that I like, I barely noticed, but like this time made me laugh harder than almost Anything else in the movie on this watch is that he's with his mom But like there's just one scene with his brother-in-law who's even older more decrepit and submental Than he is and he's in vain about how badly he's getting ripped off and like how put upon he is and his brother-in-law is Just sitting in this grocery store just in like a rocking chair and just goes they're making a fool out of you you gotta lay the law down like there's like a submental yes man who's just his brother-in-law that he runs through

it's like my brother-in-law the smartest guy I know when he says it. Yeah, this is a real brain trust working here. Yeah, I love, I also love when the Kansas City bosses are pretending to be like really like, invalid, like have the oxygen tanks when they're going to court and they get like wheeled into the room and they like, when they get wheeled into the room they take off the oxygen tanks but they just keep sitting in the wheelchairs. They're just like, why get up? Well, I thought I think our most reference scene, at least on the show, is the scene right after that,

where they're in the wheelchairs and they're talking about like all the people they have to kill. And when they talk about Nance and they're like, he's a Marine. No, no, it's Andy Stone, not Nance. Andy's our king character. He goes, he's a rock, a fucking Marine like his father stone. He's always been good with me. Yeah. Like, no, I think I think I think he'll stand at all.

Like we always expect. We always knew he would. And then it gets to Remo and he just goes, why take a chance? At least that's how I feel. And that tiny little casual moment is the genesis for like probably several dozen executions. Yeah, unbelievable bloodshed. Of just horrific brutality. And it's just like the absurdity of that.

And like I said, the way it just decimates this idea that you can ever be in control of something when your fate is decided in the back of a courtroom by like This gang of elderly Italian mummies who are like initially like yeah Let's not kill this guy and all it takes is one of them just being like I don't know why bought why why? Yeah, it's like he's barely paying attention basically To get his attention back to the conversation. They're like Remo. He's barely paying attention basically Attention back to the conversation. They're like Remo. He's like That's how easy is it like I mean like at any moment like yeah Like that's how your life will just get snatched away from you something that's stupid and like out of your control

Yeah, just no no one has any control. It's really it's on it's incredible another another hilarious part of the the Midwest bosses that I really enjoyed on this time around is like The one scene out of nowhere where you get Frank Vincent's voiceover for like one scene and that's it Oh, I love this is like when you get to hear Frank Vincent's internal monologue because like he's the one that has to keep going Back to Kansas City with like a smaller and smaller envelope that Nikki's sending them sending them wondering if he's gonna be killed every time he walks into the fucking place And he's like Frank so so Frank Vinson's character has to sit down with Remo and at this point They're starting to hear you know rumors about you know, Joe Pesci being involved with Sharon Stone and he's like, yeah the Jews Thank you a good boy. So I'm asking something. I want you to give me a straight answer

And he's like, yeah, the Jewish. Frankie, a good boy. So I'm asking something. I want you to give me a straight answer. The little guy, he wouldn't be messing around with the Jews wife because if he does, we got a problem. And that's where like it freeze frames and you get to hear inside Frank Vincent said for a second where he's like, look, I knew if I told him the truth, it would mean that we were all we would all get killed.

Because if there's one thing these old grease balls don't like, it's another guy messing around with the other guy's wife. It's bad for business. And I just love like in this universe, there's no matter how many people you kill, extort, rob, or lives you've ruined, it really doesn't matter. But if you sleep with another guy's wife, that's a problem. You've crossed the line. It's not even the principle of the matter.

It's just the fact that that's, like, one of the things that's still in, like, the made man code. Yeah. It really is so, like, incongruous with how they act and do like every single thing they do, the entire movie. It's like like Pesci has killed a woman, just a shot her in the head. It's so ridiculous. And like, oh, my God, it's I love it so much. Like, I guess we've like we've gotten to the point in the narrative where we should talk about like the end of the movie

We're like it all comes crashing down like Sharon Stone is like completely wigged out She like makes a huge scene on De Niro's lawn the cops get involved She takes the key to the jewelry and cash box goes to the bank The FBI sees all of this they trailer to the bank and arrest her. It's like literally it's like someone it's like you're in the matrix and like all of the it's like an inception. And the dream just noticed you and everyone's looking at you. Yeah. Staring at you. And you're like, I got to get the fuck out of here.

But then no, like nothing will let you leave. They're like antibodies attacking a virus like the house of the rising sun scene. In this movie, like the montage in which like, it's basically it's all over for them, like the Midwest bosses like the feds, they know about the teamsters pension fund, they know about the skim, they know about it all. So like, they're getting indicted. And as he says in the voiceover, it's always better when there's no witnesses. And the scene where

he says why take a chance that like you know precipitates like nearly a dozen horrific executions and like this to me is when like the movie really I don't know if it changes but like the movie wouldn't be legible to me without this sickening final act yeah where it's just a montage of person after person that you've either like seen briefly in the movie or have been a minor character just be executed in the most brutal and like just so sudden and brutal like guys are just shot into open graves they step some guy in the throat and put a plastic bag over his head they share in cars Sharon Stone gets a hot shot and ods yeah nance gets shot through

the top of his head by some guy goes where where are you going? Jag off and then just shoots him to the top of his head. That scene always just sickens me. It's just. Yeah. Like imagine having your life snuffed out, like having me brutally executed by someone who looks like the guys who did that to him and like, yeah, frog looking men wearing tracksuits who just like they look like Dave Thomas. Were you going Jagov and they just but but nothing and nothing in this movie or really anything else gets

close to the end of Joe Pesci and his brother. Yes. Like and the technique of like where I said like more than almost any other movie I've ever seen. Most of the action of this movie is done in voiceover. It's done in narration which is usually like a big no no.

You're told not to do that when you write screenplays. But like to me, like, this is the most effective narrative devices I can imagine is just being having Joe Pesci and Robert De Niro talk to you for like three hours. And they're telling you the story and Joe Pesci, like at the very end starts relating. Well, what happened after everyone was killed? Well, the bosses, they set up a meeting for me and my brother in a cornfield away from Vegas, because it'd be only thing- and then like, Frank Vincent hits him with a bat and his voiceover stops in that moment. Yeah. Like, stops dead.

So I set up a meeting with the guys way out in the sticks. I didn't want my brother to get fucked around. I mean, what's right is right. They don't give a fuck about- Ah! And it's just like, the voiceover narration stops stops dead and then we're treated to like a good three minutes or so Of Joe Pesci and his brother being beaten to death with aluminum baseball bats and then buried alive in a cornfield It's one of the most horrifying scenes I've ever seen it's like the worst violent Scorsese's ever done by far

Not even close not even some of the worst violence ever in a movie because and the worst part is like as they're beating the fuck By far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, by far, incredible. Like, again, like what an insane performance in total from Pesci. But like, this is after we've seen him, yeah, like portray probably the biggest onscreen sociopath we've ever seen in any Squared STAC movie. One of like the least sympathetic characters. And that's still like a soul wrenching scene. Oh my god.

Yeah, you feel bad for him. Like, how could you watch? Yeah, not feel on some human level because it's so like, it's like bestial like the his whimpering of a dying animal that knows it's dying. And it knows there's nothing it can like he and like, not just die too. Because like they make the bosses want to make an example of them. And they bury him and his brother alive. Yeah, well, they're still breathing and you see that like on it's Frank Vincent who beats him to death.

Yeah, I love this is a great, a great bit of wordless acting by Vincent is the look he gives Pesci right as he for he swings the bat for the first time, because it is like, I didn't want to do this but like holy shit Were you annoying? Yeah, I am so sick of you Yeah, yeah, the grave is so small too when they like stack them on top of each other like it's like fucking disgusting and like the dirt being shoveled onto them like oh my god

It's it's one of the most brutal and the music stops dead there, too Yeah, yeah, it's one of the only few things in the movie that's not set to a like a Popular song from the last 40 years or something yeah, and then after that we see it goes back to Sam's voiceover and we see like the The conclusion basically of all of this and of everything they've done, the Tangiers Hotel exploding, like being detonated and just all the demolition montage. Yes. And it's like, all right, we just got to fucking start from square one.

But that's so important, because like in that narration, he explains how like basically just the corporations and like private finance took over Vegas and they demolished all the old casinos. They built the pyramid, like MGM, Wynn, all the big casinos that we have now. And they used junk bonds and private equity to finance all of it. So it's like, oh, the cycle begins anew. Yeah, it's like the old America dying and the new America, which is the same but even more boring, just being put in its place. Like it's just as rapacious and evil, but like it's boring and

classless. Because like he says, nowadays in a whale shows up with $25 million in a suitcase, you got some hotel management grad student asking to see a social security card or ask for a social security number. You know, it's like can't get room service like the old vague. The old Vegas is over. But know, it's like you can't get room service. It's like the old Vegas is over, but like the story of Vegas in America continues because it is just like these endless cycles of like boom and bust of like crime and exploitation that just continues unabated because Vegas is like now a multi-billion dollar city of gambling and vice and it's just different people

are in control of it but like it's's the same thing and then the ending of of Sam Rothstein you see him. He's like in Florida or somewhere. Yeah, San Diego. He's Just like goes right back to bookmaking and he's like well, and that's pretty much how my day was Learned nothing has changed hasn't changed all, doesn't give a fuck about anything. He's like a dead-eyed lizard psycho. And why mess up a good thing? And that's that. That's the final lines of the movie.

You get the sense that if he took away anything from this at all, that like the next time he talks to like some law enforcement office officer, the FBI agent that the real, I think it's Frank Rosenthal in real life. Lefty Rosenthal, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, who was a real FBI informant. Whoever, like some big whale. If the concept of a marriage comes up, he will say, it can really be risky. I know. Like he did not, he has gone through so many things have happened to him. He has gained the world and then lost it and lost everything. He walks away with less than what he started in a lot of ways. But that is, yeah, he's just like, well, that was kind of fucked up. And then now when you go to Vegas, it's like they don't remember your favorite meal.

Yeah. The the ending of this movie is very similar. And I think it's very important that like the ending of this movie is very similar, and I think it's very important that like, the ending of this movie is very similar to the ending of Goodfellas, which is very similar to the ending of The Wolf of Wall Street. And I think like these movies form kind of an unofficial trilogy in Scorsese's broader oeuvre.

And the fact that like I said, this movie eschews entirely a three-act structure. It eschews most narrative conventions about plot and character. But most importantly, it portrays human life not as like, as they say in The Sopranos, like, where's my arc? And like, they're like, people's lives don't have an arc, they just have tragic predestination. And the fact that like, whether it's Henry Ho, Ace Rothstein, or Jordan Belfort, they end up

exactly where they started doing the exact same thing. Having learned nothing morally or spiritually, they are just the same. And like that to me is kind of the point of all three of these movies. And like why they are so brilliant as depictions of crime, but also depictions of American culture. And like, because of the fact that like there's no morality or moral or like ending that can be put on this story other than like at the end of the day, what saves Ace's life? The random dumb luck of the model of car he was driving having a metal plate under the driver's seat. Yeah, all his control. The only thing that spares his life is random dumb chance. Yeah.

And does he learn anything from that? No, of course not. Nope. There's nothing to learn. Yeah, there's nothing to be learned from this. I love the difference. I feel like a big difference between this and Goodfellas and Wolf of Wall Street is that in those other two movies, the good times are over. But in this one, he's not lamenting the good times are over for him.

He's lamenting that like things have changed in the world because he was never having any good times. Like he didn't give a fuck. He didn't give a fuck. I mean, I don't know. Like you can't you can't put a bow on this movie. Like there is no there is no ending. And that's what I love about it. Like the story the story of the inferno just continues and that we're we are all trapped in it like we were born into This kind of inferno and I think like for all the brutality and cruelty of Scorsese's movies Like if they're it's not that they're a moral. I mean, I think he shows I think he's honestly interested in brutality and cruelty Yeah, and like but I but I think like he, his perspective is not an amoral one. I think like his movies,

some of his movies offer some glimmer that like in, in, in his language or in a religious sense that you can, you can achieve some kind of grace in your life or you can, you can like, the grace of God is still open to you in some way. But for like the protagonists of the three films I just mentioned, like, I think ultimately the point is that like there is nobody more enslaved to money than people obsessed with it. And like there's no freedom, like you were like that's what traps you in hell, is this need to like this need

to have like to have money and like to have mastery over money. And like that to me is kind of the point of the movie is that like money, greed, pride, like these are what separate you from the grace of God. Yeah. Yeah. A casino is really like that is the it's like a temple to the devil basically. But yeah, that it's all about money. It's just like the pure distillation of that idea down into down to a game, like a fun place to go and That's like another great thing about the title of this movie It's like like that's just what it is like and it's the perfect milieu for a Scorsese type story and It's just so brilliant. I just love it

I think that like a concept that you see a lot in Scorsese movies, one idea that I think is, you know, for people hundreds of years from now, if they want to understand what this time was like, a few movies would serve them better than like this, the entire Scorsese catalog, because he does love this idea of like, that nothing ever really ends. That there is, you will love and you will lose and things will exit from your life. And there were things that you never even contemplated as a thing you could lose that will just go away. They will no longer be a fact of your existence.

But that you still, you are still going to trudge on. And in fact, there is no end to it, really. It just keeps going and going and going. But the other I think it's the other part of this and I think it's sort of, you know, maybe a bigger theme to some of these is this idea of like, perdition as just a place where God just does not exist? Yes. Yes. It's not even that like God once existed and now God is dead, but just a complete deletion, a complete absence.

And it's not so much, yeah, you know, that you spend your eternal afterlife in but it is a state of being that you get sent to not by judgment, but through your own your own act by yourself really just your character. Yeah, your immortal character. And it gets back to this idea of like the casino, the United States of America, the morality car wash that like you arbitrage morality and your soul in exchange for money. And like, and that that is really what condemns you to hell. That's what makes that that's what that's the fabric of the

inferno. Is that like, there's no one to really condemn you there, we all go there willingly. And like, to me, like, I think about the end of the Irishman to which I would include in this discussion, because it's sort of like for for Henry Hill, for Ace, for Frank Sharon. At the end of the day, it's kind of like the worst possible outcome is surviving without ever really facing any judgment. Because then you're just left with your life. Yeah. Yeah. Like they do like all the horror and violence that you've participated in or committed yourself. Everyone you know is dead. Like they've all suffered some consequence for it. But you're just still alive and living doing the same thing with no with no actual real like societal or spiritual judgment to, I don't know, call you to

task. You're just like you're just left with your life. And like that to me is like really the bleakest and most terrifying part of the endings of all these movies that they're like, like Henry Hill. What did he do? Just start dealing drugs in Arizona and get arrested again like 10 more times. Yeah. People don't change. People don't change. Jordan Belfort is like a prolific crypto scammer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Like nothing ever fucking ends. why would you buy something from? The biggest liars who's ever lived says it's a good idea. Oh My god. Well, I think that puts a nice conclusion on this That was the premiere of movie mindset season three Martin Scorsese's casino. Felix, thanks so much for joining us on this episode. It was a lot of my absolute pleasure. This was awesome. I was so happy we got to do one of my one of my absolute favorites.

And yeah, no, we we were destined to talk about it. Probably the single most important movie for our show. Yeah. Well, that does it for this episode. Keep watching those movies, everybody. We'll catch you next time. Bye bye. Bye. But in the end, I wound up right back where I started, I could still pick winners. And I could still make money for all kinds of people back home. And why mess up a good thing and that's that You you