Chapo Trap House - UNLOCKED: The Siege of Cuba feat. Liz Oliva Fernández

Episode Date: February 13, 2026

Havana-based journalist Liz Oliva Fernández of Belly of the Beast joins us for an interview about the economic siege of Cuba by the United States. We talk about the looming specter of regime change and the collapse of Cuba’s healthcare system and power under the weight of a decades-long blockade. (NOTE: Liz’s connection was a little spotty so the ending of the interview is a little abrupt.) [This is the second half of our recent premium episode. If you would like to hear the first half where Felix and Will recap recent news such as the El Paso airspace closure and James Fishback's run for governor, subscribe to patreon.com/chapotraphouse]. Watch The War on Cuba: https://www.bellyofthebeastcuba.com/the-war-on-cuba

Joining us right now is Havana-based journalist Liz Oliva Fernandez with the U.S.-based media outlet, Belly of the Beast, to talk about the current situation in Cuba as it faces an oil blockade. Liz, thank you so much for joining the program. It's a pleasure for me being here. Thank you for the invitation. Your pleasure. Liz, obviously, Cuba has been under the longest economic blockade in human history. But more recently, since the U.S. overthrowing and kidnapping of Maduro in Venezuela, Cuba has found itself in an even more precarious position. What can you tell us about what Cuba is facing right now and what are conditions currently like for the Cuban people?

Yeah, the first things that I need to establish is like some petroleum, some fuel that Cuba used to come from Venezuela. So the plumbing started even before they abducted the Venezuelan president, Nicholas Maduro, because on December they established an oil blockade to Venezuela. That stopped to Venezuela to send oil, whatever part of the war, and Cuba was affected, too. So Cuba doesn't receive any oil shipment since December. And then on January, President Donald Trump decided to establish an oil blockade in Cuba, arguing that Cuba is a threat to the national security of the United States, what is like socialized. And since then, we have been facing a lot of blackouts. It's better now because the government, one of the measures that they took was trying to.

to cut the public transportation and trying to cut different services that are not essential in the country in order to have more electricity to give it to the people. And also for me it's important to say that Cuba produced their own oil, but it's a small quantity of oil and it's not really good quality. But we produce some of the oil. It's not like we are run out of the oil because we We produce some of the oil that we consume in the country, but of course, it's not enough. So we need to import oil, not just from Venezuela, whatever country that want to sell us oil. The problem is like, United States now is threatening the war to give them more tariff in their produce if they are willing to sell oil to Cuba. So that makes us really vulnerable because first, the mission.

The signatures that United States are taking against Cuba are illegal. So there is no way that international law allows you a country, not United States, even, to impose this kind of sanctions against a country and third one. But United States do it anyway because they just can't do it. And it's been complicated. I think, like, the situation is, like, kind of stable right now. in the middle of the crisis because it's not like mainstream media. It's like, Cuba running out of foreign oil in two days, in one day.

So they're having this counting down that doesn't make many sense and creates also a lot of hysteria. Of course the situation is difficult. Of course the situation is going to be worse in their upcoming weeks or month. There is a lot of uncertainty because we don't know, fortunately, what is going to happen. So the government is trying to work in some solutions alternative. I read it this morning in news that say that Russia is going to sell oil to Cuba anyways. But I don't know, like Russia is also so far away from Cuba.

How many oil treatments they're able to send to Cuba without an interference, like direct interference from the United States. I'm not sure when it's going to be the situation in the future, but right now it's really stable. The Black House used to be longer one week or two weeks ago, but after they cut the public transportation and they cut, for example, now the school, the university, the college, the students that are in college right now are taking classes from home. That is also difficult because when you are in the middle of the Blackout, you don't have access to Internet. So a lot of known essential workers that work for the state, of course, they are not working.

They're stopped or they're working the half of hours, the half of hours that they are used to work like two weeks ago. So I think like we have a feeling that something's happening, a lot of anxiety in the people, but also calm, that sometimes for me I don't know how to think about that because it's like the calm before the storm is that the kind of feeling that I have so, more than less, that's the situation right now. I mean, obviously like,

Cuba has been, modern Cuba has been formed under this ongoing economic blockade and like has become, I think, would you say quite used to making do with what's on hand to have a functioning in stable society. And as you, like, this is going to get a lot harder as time goes on. Because oil is like the basis of all economic activity, electricity, medicine, education,

as you said. Like, is it demoralizing to have to continually do more with less and less and less? Or like, is that calm? Yeah. Yeah, of course. And also we are tired to do that. Why we want to do that? That's not fair.

And this is something that I really don't like Because for example, people say like you is going to survive because they are so resilient So creative We are not like this per se We have to be We have been forced to be an acting like that We have to be resilient in order to survive But we also are tired to be like creative and to trying to create solutions for the ways that we're going to live

Of course we don't have oil or gas for cooking. So people are using charcoal to cook or woods to cook. But how is it going to affect? Do you know how long takes? This is not a barbecue and Sunday. Try to do in a really hard conditions like every day when you are taking care of where there are electricity on power the most of the day and you have to take care of three, two children's, two elder people. and you need to cook with charcoal or with wood without anything to line it up because you're doing that but you don't have gas to light it. So you need to find ways to create it with cardboard and with polyspoom.

I don't know how to translate that in English, but this is the things that are coming with electric things that protect them. They are white. I don't know how to translate that. So imagine like trying to do that, like in that condition. that's not, I think like the kind of things, and this is one of the goals, the sanctions that the people just forget. They want to suffocate the Cuban people. They want to start with the Cuban people.

They want to make the life of the given people so miserable that the Cuban people wants to overthrow their own government. That's the end game. That's the thing that we're playing here. Not because I said, the Secretary of State Marco Rubio said in front of the Senate, Of course that we would love to see a regime change in Cuba. And that was his wars. Yeah, and it certainly seems like regime change is what's being placed. I mean, they're quite open about it, as you said.

And it seems like U.S. foreign policy, as it relates to Cuba, is being run more or less by Marco Rubio and his connections to like the Miami-Cuban diaspora community. And I'm just wondering, what do people in Cuba, like how do they relate to or feel about the Cuban population in America and like as represented by Marco Rubio and others in the Miami Cuban community who seemed like want the overthrow of the Cuban government has been their number one goal since the Cuban revolution. How do how do like everyday average people in Cuba like are they aware of this? How do they relate to Miami or American Cubans and their role in

US foreign policy right now? For me we have to say like I want to give married to Marco Rubio for this whole disaster that he helped to create in Cuba, but not all the merit to him. Because the Cuban-American lobby exists before Michael Rubio was in place or was part of the Senate of Congress since the beginning. I feel like Cuban-American lobby is a really strong lobby. He just copy and pays A-PAC, Israeli lobby in the United States. So they learn from the best, if this is like a kind of expression that we can use from the role that APA.

and Israel is playing a if you want to, you know, starve and strangle a country to death. Yeah. If you want to be part of the genocide, of course. So, but I'm saying this because this is, this was the masterpiece. Like we need to be, because who else? Who other loving the United States has social power?

Chinese American, Italian American, German American. Think about it. only Israeli-American or Israeli itself or Cuban-American have to decide the politics or the policy that United States playing in their respective country or inside of the United States. So in some point, and it was a bipartisan lobby, so they give money to Democrats and they give money to Republicans. So now we are talking about Michael Rubio because we are talking about Donald Trump administration. but four years ago, five years ago, we were talking about Bodminendez, the infamous Bodminendez, because they were about like a part of the Biden administration.

So this is something that has been created, this monster that they create is strong enough because at the beginning they were just a lobby, Cuban American lobby, but they find, they get their way in order to get a seat in Congress, like I'm talking about like key seats inside of Congress to put their people in, because it's not just Marco Rubio, Mario Diaz-Balard, they have key positions inside of the government

in order than they don't need lobby anymore. They are the lobby. So they are trying to suffocate the people because, but the Cuban people, but also, if you think about this, are people that they don't know Cuba. They don't resent Cuba. They haven't put a foot in Cuba. So what kind of policy you are talking about when you don't know the people or the country that you want to overthrow? So there is just, I think they are thinking in the Cuba that just says in their

head. And when the people say, like, all the Cuban Americans want this, I don't think so. I think, like, of course there is like a group of Cubans, American, that support regime change, that support sanctions. But in my experience, for example, to talking about with Cuban Americans in other part of the United States, New York, Washington, D.C., New Jersey, when they talk about Cuba, even if they are not agreed with the government, they are not agreed with the sanctions either. because they understand a while ago that the sanctions only hurt the Cuban people, only hurt their families. They want to have relations with Cuba. They want to do business with Cuba. I'm not talking about democracies, Cuba. I'm talking about Republican Democrats, whatever.

They want to be able to come to Cuba to do business in Cuba. The same relation that we have when Obama era, Obama and Raul Castro normalized relations in judicial. So there are people, I think that for the first time, for the first time in many decades, because you need to keep in mind that the blockade is running from more than 60, the six decades right now. And that the people in Cuba just realized that this old propaganda that we're having listened to about the block case, not real. The sanctions is only affecting the Cuban government. They say that it was bullshit. because for the first time

these Cuban American politicians are going on social media on public and talking, well, if your mother needs to be hunger and your kids doesn't have access to medication, this is a price that we need to pay in order to get freedom. And the people in Cuba is like, wait,

what? What are you talking about that I have to suffer in order you to have this freedom that you want to bring us? Like, this is crazy. And for the first thing, And I think like they actually realize that they are the aim game, that there are the victims here. They have been manipulated for many years. I don't want to say all Cubans realize that because I will be lying.

I'm pretty sure that a lot of Cubans think that this is a good idea. But I can assure you for sure that this is not the Cuban who actually are suffering the most during this circumstances. I mean, there has obviously always been a right-wing Cuban lobby in America, and that's always been enmeshed with, depending on the era, the neoconservative set, or now this sort of amalgam between MAGA that subsumed a lot of the elements of neoconservatism. But the difference now really seems to be that it's all rolled into one, which is to say that if you are, your goal is regime change and just the complete misery and humiliation and starvation of Cuba, you are now, that is no longer your singular issue. It's part of a set of issues. You want to do

the same thing to Iran. You want to help Israel expand well into Syria and wherever. You now have to buy into the total package, which is Marco Rubio is sort of a perfect representation of that as a perfect avatar of the modern zombie neocon consensus. The traditional Miami-based Cuban lobby, it ironically seems less important, even though it's traditional, a lot of its traditionally stated goals seem to be at the forefront. It's just this holistic view of America as a extortion racket, which it's always been, but just put in more explicit terms now. It's what I think.

I don't think that they need to lobby anymore because they already have the positions that they want and the positions that makes him have a really bit influence on politics. And I also feel that there is a lot of Cuban-Americans that do think they say that U.S. media outlets are not interviewed them. Don't show them. For example, if you just watch U.S. media outlets, when you see a Cuban, do you see a Cuban like me? They look like me? No. Yeah, no. Yeah.

So do you have this impression that all Cuban people are white, right? But we are not. We are actually a mixed country. So it's not different Cuba from D.R. or from Puerto Rico. So why, every time that you see a Cuban American talking about the U.S. policy on Cuba, you just see a white guy? Yeah. So there is a little, even the young ones, where's the young Cuban Americans? They just, that just emigrated 10 years ago, 15 years ago. Where are they thinking about Cuba? What they are not showing on social media going viral or just in mainstream media outlets,

asking then, what do you think about the U.S. policy on Cuba? What you just see the same guys over and over? What is it going on? Like, I don't know. And every time that they show, for example, when I watch me, like the news in the United States, it just looks, of course, in Spanish, they just look, the Cubans look the same, like crazy people that want radical change. And also, that's a key thing.

We are talking about now that regime changed, but one years ago, six months ago, they were talking about democracy, freedom of speech, free elections, whatever they want to bring in the conversations, so that they were actually being confrontational about this. Even though, like, a couple of days ago, the U.S. Embassy ambassador in Havana, They were just show on in social media talking about like, well, the Trump administration is doing some, putting some pressure on the government.

But if the people doesn't have access to food or medications, that's in their own government, that's because of Cuban government. And I was like, wait, what? What are you talking about? If it's because our own government, what is the point of the sanctions? Why are the sanctions are still in place? where are you pushing countries to cut contrast with Cuba? What kind of contrast? Whatever you want.

Medical students, Cuba medical missions. And also, they know how to play this game because they are putting pressure in countries that they know that they have a lot of to lose if they face the United States. This is like a big bully. So everyone is afraid. They don't want to put in, they have good relations with Cuba, but they have a lot of economic dependent, like they have like a dependent relationship.

Mexico would be a good example of what you're talking about. Yeah, it's not, well, I was talking about like a little country in the Caribbean, but I think like, and that's something key because Mexico has been all with Cuba. No, now with Claudia Chamberl. Historically, Mexico has been supporting Cuba in so many. ways in different part of his stories when no one else supports to Cuba. And Clayde de Chimbaum is doing her best in order to support the Cuban people. But also, she has a lot of risks because the United States and Mexico have a lot of economic relations between each other. And she doesn't want to put in rest her population, her people in Mexico in order to help Cuba. So how she can do it?

How can she dance this game without bother so much to Trump? I think so far she had really demonstrated she knows how to manage in a crisis. That's good. And she knows how to manage conversations with US president. But how long she can sustain this until someone is going to really piss off. with her. So this is like a kind of balance and that's why it's important. I think like people in the United States and that's another point of view that we're not talking about. Like we're talking about people in Cuba suffering how we can do in order to help them. But for example, if Cuba

collapsed and the regime change happened or a civil war happening in Cuba, what do you think that people is going to go? They're going to go to the United States. You want to stop migration and you want to try to destabilize a country that right now, the most of the population are living in the United States? Where are you thinking that people are going to fraud tomorrow with Ellen that are going to send up? No, we're going to the United States. So you say that you have a crisis that is provoked by Democrats and you want to stop migrants to show up in your border, but at the same side, you are destabilized the entire continent.

Another thing I wanted to talk about is sort of like a historical example of how Cuba has dealt with an oil crisis in the past. Because prior to the collapse of the Soviet Union, Cuba got most of its oil imported from the Soviet Union. In the 90s, that all changed. How did Cuba, how is it able to maintain itself and its economy in the aftermath of losing its largest source of oil imports? I don't think that Venezuela was the largest at the moment that they cut because we have Venezuela, but we also have Mexico selling oil to Cuba. So we lost both. But in the last couple of years, like Cuba really are working towards to have renewables, energy running,

the electricity, the electrical system. And I think like this is the best, this is the bet right now. In fact, right now, the 10% of the energy that we receive are through solar panels during the day. That's the problem, the solar panels only run during the day. So the electricity that we receive, the 10% of the electricity who are coming to the electrical system in Q are coming from renewable energies. And two years ago, we have like 250-something megawatts. coming from solar panels and in less than a year was Cuba was able to do four times that they have been trying to accomplish in 10 years so in 10 years we have achieved 250 megawatts or something

like that and in a year less than a year we were able to achieve 1,000 megawatts so right now we have 1,000 megawatts and something 1,000 to 50 megawatts so and and I think like there is a will, like governmental will, to do a real transition to fuel until, from fuel to renewable energies. What are the things? Like, we need funds. We need technology. So, whereas the Chinese are getting into the picture, because the ones who actually are running the renewables energies around the wall, they're the Chinese one because they have the best analogy to the low prices.

And I think like Q is trying to increase us as much as possible, but it's also we need to find a way to save that energy because, for example, in Qaeda we have a lot of sunny days. But for example, this is something that are more technical, but you need to find a balance between the demand of the people and the offer that you can offer. So if something in some way are trying to provoke that is a fluctuation in this balance, the electrical system is already can fall.

And for example, the president of Cuba, when he talked, he said the things, the only thing that is stopping Cuba from the electrical system to collapse is thanks to renewable. really thanks to our parents. So if this measure will happen last year, I think that situation in Cuba will be more worse. Another element

that I want to get into is the Cuban healthcare sector. And just as a outside observer, I've never been to Cuba. But like, one of the most impressive things to me about Cuba as a country is its ability to educate, train, and then export doctors around

the world to do like really impressive and necessary, like, life-saving work. Did you talk a little bit about, like, your family history, like your mom was a Cuban doctor who went to Venezuela as part of, like, a kind of oil for doctors program? Because you talk about, like, the achievements of the Cuban healthcare sector,

like, in terms of, like, its outcomes of life expectancy and treating disease, and how that also, too, is under, you know, a major element that is being targeted by sanctions and by regime change advocates. Yeah, for sure. And this is something that has been really affected in the last 10 years.

And you can say, for example, Cuba used to produce the 60% of the medications that we're consuming Cuba. And right now we have zero. Like, the crisis is getting worse and the access to healthcare is easy because we are not only has access to public health. health care system, but it's universal.

That means that you have a doctor walk distance from your home, whatever you live. So I think that this is the sector that has filled the most the effects of the sanctions during the years because we have the science, we have the people, but we don't have the basic things. And I think like the perfect example for that was during the COVID pandemic, that we were able to create no one but two vaccines against COVID, that we just need to get vaccinated once, and that's all.

And so that works. And we don't have the syringes to vaccinate the people. How is possible that the countries is able to create the urban scenes and then they don't have syringes. So that's the kind of the situation that the sanctions is created. And right now with the medications, we are able to do our own medications for our population. And people love Cuba medications and trust to them. But we need raw materials.

We need to buy the raw materials. And with the sanctions, and no, on the top of sanctions, they put a United States put Cuba in the state's sponsor of terrorism list. The people are not talking enough about that. What does it mean? that now you are not only a risky country because you are under sanctions by the most powerful country in the war, that also you are naming or label in some way as a terrorist,

and you can be really in risk. So who wants to take the risk to the business with Cuba? Who wants to take the risk to sell raw materials to Cuba? To do transitions with Cuba? No one. or just little people that are trying to find a way in some or another's

but when they put Cuba in the state sponsor of terrorism list that was Trump first term it was like a dead sentence for Cuba and they mean it and when the people talk about the sanctions they say okay the sanctions have been in play for more than

six decades right now almost seven decades right now but the Sanchez not always has been the same so the sanctions has been changed like there is a new century that is applying to Cuba. So the government trying to find the plan B, trying to skip the sanctions, trying to skip the obstacle,

but then the sanctions is going to like fix it themselves to attack the plan B. And right now we are out of letters. We finish with the whole alphabet because right now they're really getting really precise. What is the source of income in Cuba right now? tourism. We are killing the tourism with this new deal. And this is our high season in tourism. This is the time with Canadians are coming. This is a time where Russians are coming. This is the time when people actually are coming to Cuba on vacations. And so there is no best time to do this kind of threats to make people to cut the oil, to make airlines to cut

a flight to Cuba, to make people stop to come into Cuba. So the people are always who is going to pay the price. And that's the things that we need to understand. Because, for example, when you try, and I don't know, like, and for me it's really difficult to think about, like, how they actually think that people, some people that can be maybe glad or happy or hopeful about that Cuba is collapsing soon. that they think like trying to suffocate or to trying to kill the people from a starvation and to prohibit them to have access, prohibited them to have access to medications

and that sooner is a victory because it's not. It's certainly not because if this is a price to that we, because they are in the United States, we have to pay in order to have whatever. It's not a victory for anyone. And also, I don't really trust in the idea that United States have the ability to liberate Cuba because I don't have to, the ability to give freedom to their own people, to their own citizens. So how you can actually trust. Well, we have ability to liberate you from having universal health care.

That's what we'll liberate Cuba from. We'll liberate you for having the ability to purchase private insurance, which is really great. and something all Americans, freedom that every American enjoys and would die to continue. Yeah, it is. And I always try when I'm talking with someone from the United States about the effects of the sanctions, because it's incredible because I think like people are more agree with this idea of collective punishment, but they are not like, sanctions are good. Like we approve that because that means that you did something bad that we are trying to fix through sanctions, that is crazy because sanctions are collective punishment.

And if you think about collective punishment, I think that the best way to realize that that's wrong is just trying to bring in the conversation Iraq. What the United States did before just starting invasion and a war in Iraq. So that was collective punishment. That's the way that it works. And I think like if we did something,

something wrong in Cuba was trying to set a good example. So we kind of trying to pay some prices to try to be the good example because that's the thing. That's the danger, the danger of the good example, the danger to have a different society is possible. And if we actually let people to believe that that's real, that's really dangerous. For example, this morning I was talking to a U.S. doctor physician. that he's bringing, his Republican, conservative, and he's bringing his patients to Cuban to have to receive medications against Alzheimer,

for example, Cuban medication. And it's really working, but it's illegal for Cuba to sell this medication today, the United States, because that will be facing the challenge of the sanctions. So the sanctions are not only affecting the Cuban people and the access to have basic medications and things. They also is affecting to people in the United States who is dealing with Alzheimer's in their families, who are dealing with lung cancer in their families, who are dealing with that

diabetes food in their families, because this is a kind of medication that Cuba can offer, not just the United States to the war, and also the United States is stopping not just their own citizens, but the war to have access to the medication and this science that is coming from Cuba. Yeah. I mean, yeah, that's a really good point. I mean, like, I think there's so much, I mean, leaving aside the Cuban people and their sovereignty, there's so much of the United States could directly benefit from a normal relationship with Cuba, which again, needs to be stressed is not a country that in any way is a threat to the national security of the United States, even if it wanted to be, which I think is clearly not the case. So, I mean, you talk about the price of all of this. And when I was watching your report, and I was watching the videos you made about Cuba, this is what struck me is that since the Cuban revolution, Cuba has won for itself sovereignty, sovereignty in defiance of U.S. corporations, U.S. organized crime and, like, you know, the largest military and economic power in the world. And it seems like the ongoing price for that sovereignty is a series of like, you know,

of unfolding economic crises that make daily life. very difficult for the Cuban people in terms of access to food and medicine. And I'm just wondering like what your thoughts are on like the toll that continued payment of that price is for the Cuban people. And like what you would like to see from both the Cuban government but also the international community to, you know, like stand up for the independence and sovereignty of Cuba in the face of this kind of extortion. Well, first I have to say that we are not only a threat to the United States, but the opposite, because Cuba is one of the biggest allies that United States has in the region in order to fight narcotics, drug trafficking. If you go to the report of the national security, you will find that Cuba is just double like five stars in that report until also 24. And in Tulsa, 25, they just erase Cuba from the report because they don't want to people actually seeing that we are doing so well in order to help the United States to stop illegal migration, to stop narcotrafficking. And now that they have a war on drugs, it's going to look well if you have a country that you say that is a threat saying in another official report that is actually not a threat is also, it's an analysis.

is a better ally than even the countries in the region that are allies from the United States. I'm talking about the R. Jamaica. So the best, the more you get deep, the more you realize that all this is a construction. It's not an accident that all the drugs that get imported to America come via allies of our country and not officially adversaries like Cuba. But I learned through your reporting that the U.S. Coast Guard actually has an official relationship with Cuba in terms of the interdiction of narcotics trafficking in the Caribbean. Yeah. It used to be. It used to be, but now even that communication has been cut. Like, well, Cuba still communicate with them, but they don't communicate all the way around.

I think like a lot of things change in the last strong administration, even that kind of cooperation that has been shown that actually works. And on the other side, when you're talking about the people paying the price, I don't know. I'm like, people are. tired to pay the price and that's the problem and you need to understand like we just need like feel the necessity to live in a country and I don't want to say that Cuba is perfect or something like that because we are far from being perfect we need a lot of things inside of the country that we need to fix and work though but we can't focus on that because we are fighting on to try not fighting because there is no way that we are fighting back but we are trying to survive

a U.S. sanctions. I'm sorry about this, yeah. The connection is a little bit spotty. I'm only getting about 10% of what you're saying. Yeah, I'm so sorry. It's because like the connection is not their best. We can hear you, but like you keep dropping out. And I think we're just like the connectivity issues are going to make

finishing out with the interview a little bit too difficult. So I really enjoyed, thank you for joining us today. But I think we should leave it there for the interview because I don't know how much more of this we're going to be able to take that's going to be usable for us. So once again, I think I really thank you for your time and you're reporting and joining us here today on the show. Okay, thank you very much for the invitation.