CheapShow - Ep 262: Grumpy Sessions: The Cream Of Acting

Episode Date: December 24, 2021

It's our final show for 2021, but we are going out with something a little bit special. Something a little bit different. This week, Paul & Eli take a look back on the life, the work and the ice cream of everyone's favourite actor, Grumpy Sessions. Over the course of this deeply heart-warming episode, you will hear from the man himself, reflecting on his career and his body of work. You'll also hear from some of those people most close to him throughout his life. Their anecdotes will delight and inspire us all. They'll also be a few opportunities to hear clips from some of Grumpy's most treasured roles! This Christmas (or whatever), join CheapShow for a fascinating and moving portrait of one of Britain's best kept secrets... Mr Grumpy Sessions. The Cream of Acting! See pictures and/or videos for this episode here: https://www.thecheapshow.co.uk/ep-262-grumpy-sessions-special And if you like us, why not support us: www.patreon.com/cheapshow If you want to get involved, email us at [e-mail] And if you want to, follow us on Twitter @thecheapshowpod or @paulgannonshow & @elisnoid Like, Review, Share, Comment... LOVE US! Oh, and you can NOW listen to Urinevision 2021 on Bandcamp... For Free! Enjoy! https://cheapshowpodcast.bandcamp.com/album/urinevision-2021-the-album MERCH Official CheapShow Merch Shop: www.redbubble.com/people/cheapshow/shop www.cheapmag.shop Thanks also to @vorratony for the wonderful, exclusive art: www.tinyurl.com/rbcheapshow Send Us Stuff CheapShow PO BOX 1309 Harrow HA1 9QJ

Hello, Merry Christmas. Hello, everyone. I'm Paul Gannon. I'm Eli Silverman. And today we're doing something very special for Christmas 2021, aren't we, Mr. Silverman? Yes, it's been a hard year for a lot of people, Paul. And this is a project we're about to introduce, which I think bring a bit of uh joy to some people you know it's been built from love yes and it's been built from care uh we think you're going to enjoy

what we've got planned for you this week so what we have uh for you lovely listeners is a little deep dive a little documentary we've put together which features one of our most beloved guests and uh he he's also uh sometimes performs on the show as well. He's been known to. We've used his talent once or twice. He's had a very long, quite distinguished career. You know, a bit like that documentary, Ten Feet From Stardom.

He's a bit like that. He's been around famous people, almost there, not quite making it. He's the 12th Beatle. He's that kind of career person, isn't he? Wasn't that Jesus Christ? I don't know. No, Jesus was number 13, wasn't he?

I don't know what Jesus was. He was number 13. In the Beatles? No, he had 12 disciples, so he was number 13. And you're saying four of those were the Beatles? Yeah, John, Paul. No, they were the Gospels, didn't they? And then the Beatles.

It's all getting very confusing. And I just, I'm about to say something. What? I don't know, something sweary. Don't. This is a nice episode for Christmas, celebrating the love, the art, and the work and history of Grumpy Sessions. Grumpy Sessions, everybody.

So sit back, relax, and let us take you on a journey via the words of Grumpy himself through his life and times. Enjoy, everybody. Enjoy. Merry Christmas. Yes, this way. Oh, nice. No, it's a nice little place you've got here, actually. Well, thank you very much. Yes, I just had it done last year. Come through.

Oh, thank you. Come through. Thank you. This is my living room. Oh, it's very depressing and small. Well, you know, I like to keep things cosy. There's only one, you know, you don't want to have to walk a mile to get to the kitchen, do you? No, you can just reach over and grab your tea's made. It's just there. A toaster just there as well. It's just there. No, it's very low. Can I take a seat here?

Oh, please. I'll just move these TV times as you've got stacked up on it. Oh, I've got loads of those. Yes, I love to look at them. So I'll just take a... So we're just going to do a little... Leafing through the papery times, I think of it like that. Well, we're just going to do...

Sometimes they get all crumbly. Why? They powder up. You powder your TV times as well? I don't powder them, no. Sometimes they get all crumbly. Why? They powder up. You powder your TV times as well? I don't powder them, no. They become powder, like everything. Hang on, let me just check the date on some of these. Radio Times, 1983.

They're very old. It's very powdery, that one. Oh, it's extremely powdery. It's very powdery. Make yourself at home now. How terrible of me, I'm being a terrible host. I'm just not used to the company. Now, would you like a beverage of some sort? I've got tea. I'm being a terrible host You know I'm just not used To the company Now

Would you like A beverage of some sort I've got tea I've got some tea I'll take a tea Coffee's instant I could do a ripey No

No tea's really nice actually I'll have a tea I've got a What's it The squash I'll have a tea You'll have a tea Yes

One tea Coming up So yeah We just thought We'd sit down with you And record your memories and thoughts for a bit You know You know what it doesn't matter If you can't find the tea bags

It's just me and Eli Thought it would be nice to have a little conversation with you Get your memories down on record Yes Mr Silverman. I was hoping to see him. He's unfortunately doing other interviews for this. He's actually interviewing some people you've worked with in the past. We've managed to track down a few of your old starlets.

Oh, no, you haven't. Yes, no, it's going to be good times. Right. All right. OK, well, then I'll just set the recording up here. That's fine. Here we go. I'm just going to put that on the table.

Right, there you go. Oh, thank you. Oh, I didn't ask you if you wanted sugar. No, no, I'm cutting back. Do you want sugar? I've got sugar. No, I'm cutting back. It's fine.

No, please sit down. Okay. So just relax. Just an informal chat between the two of us. Do you want this blanket? No, no, no, I'm fine. All right, OK. OK, so, where do we start?

So, it says here you were born in 1943. 43 years. I tried to lie about that over you. What do you remember about your mother and your father? Oh, Daddy was a very distant man. He was a, he was a salesman. He used to sell books and hoovers, you know. Oh,

wow, so a bit of everything. He, he did, but you know, he was never home. Oh, that's a shame.

He was never home. He was a shadow in the, in the doorway. That's how I remember him. Slam! Slam! Slam.

Her mother, of course. I remain close to her to this very day. What, she's still alive? Wouldn't that make her like over a hundred? No, she's still going, just about. Is she in this house? No, no, no, no. Absolutely not. I do keep her

room preserved, but no, she's in the home. She's in a home very nearby. I get to see her most days. Oh wow, that's interesting because I honestly, I thought with your age and her age, she must have had you quite young then. She was, yeah.

I mean, I don't think she loved Dad really. She just got knocked up in the cinema. It used to happen, you know. You'd go to the pictures, you'd get a finger up you, but in the dark, you don't know if it's a finger or the other cinema you know it used to happen you know you'd go to the pictures you get a finger up you but in the dark you don't know if it's a finger or the other you know and it was it turned out to be the other turned out to be my daddy's winky all the way up daddy's other oh anyway me and mother very close and she used to encourage me to perform from a very early age she did she

dressed you up in lots of weird costumes, I believe. She dressed me up as an... I've seen the pictures, actually. As an ice cream... I seem to remember a lot. Ice cream boy. She'd go, Mummy wants to lick ice cream boy's head. Yes, yes, she used to...

Didn't you find that unusual, though? Well, I didn't have anything to compare it to, you know. Fair enough. Daddy wasn't there. He was slamming the door. Leaving. And I used to play in the kitchen. And she used to pretend it was snowing by taking some flour.

Yeah. And all the powder. And the powder. The powder. We'd pretend the powdered flour was snow, you see. Oh, okay. We used to do little scenes. You made it very powdery then around the room.

Very powdery. And you were dressed up as a. We used to do little scenes. You made it very powdery then around the room. Very powdery. And you were dressed up as a little ice cream salesman. Yes, or other characters, you know. So, okay. From books and stuff, I was Bar Bar the Elephant at some point. So was it that dress-up play with your mother that led you to get the acting bug initially? Oh, absolutely, yes. She encouraged me

no end. Still does. You know? Still keeps prompting you on. If I'm on the telly, pop up on the telly in the communal dining area. Yeah, where they all sit and slowly die. She's very proud.

In front of loose women. She's proud and she goes, that's... That's my boy. That's my Grumpy. Why did she call you Grumpy? What's your mother's name? Your mother's father's name? Well, I know your father was called Angry Sessions. Angry Sessions, yes. I believe he was Dutch.

He was... Well, he said he was Dutch. But, you know, I think he... Well, you never met him, so you don't know. Well, I met him. But, you know, I think he... Well, you never met him, so you don't know. Well, I met him. But, you know, he was gone by the time I was five or so. Just, just... And your mother, what was her name?

Sad Sessions. Sad Sessions. Sad Sessions. Oh. Is it kind of a... I think you'd call her Sade. No, but back thenade She was a smooth operator She certainly was, very smooth

Sometimes quite powdery When the smoothness breaks off And the powder Starts to form Anyway, your sad sessions I can't complain really No So when you went to school then,

was she the one who spurred you on to take part in the school productions of plays and things like that? Oh, absolutely. I remember my very first acting role. On the stage in front of, in school? It was in school, yes. And I was a little ice cream seller boy. Right.

Yes. What was the play called? It was a nativity, but they... And they ran out of costumes and said, can you come in with what you had

and you got to... I had this apron thing that looked very much, could be converted to an ice cream sort of cellar thing. So, you know... So, at the manger,

there was Jesus Christ, the wise men, the animals, and you... Well, I was one of the three wise men. They updated the wise men to the ice cream seller wise man. And then there was the milkman wise man. And then there was the Hoover salesman wise man as well.

Well, the Tupperware. The Tupperware man, yeah. Salesman. Wiseman as well. Well, the Tupperware. The Tupperware man, yeah. Salesman. You know, for a small school, it was quite forward thinking.

You know, they did a lot of interesting things from what I can understand. You went to quite a progressive school. Yes, I mean, there was boys and girls, which was quite unusual at the time. Back then, yeah. It would have been in the 50s, yeah. And they had a very strange diet. Right. The school dinners had to be dairy. Everything was dairy.

Everything creamy. And that's right, it's strange, because your school was called St. Creamy, so there must have been a whole thing going on. Oh, yes. Were they associated with the local dairy factory? Yes, they had connections with all sorts of nationwide dairy chains, and a lot of people who worked in the industry sent their children there.

I mean, I just happened to be local. Wow, there was... If you like cheese, it was a great school to go to. Did you like cheese? I love cheese to this day. I've got some great cheeses in at the moment. If you want something to go with your tea... No, I'm all right for now.

Wensleydale? No, I'm all right for now. Wensleydale? No, I'm good for cheese. Cheshire? And cream and butter. Oh, cream. I've got clotted, single, double. Have you ever heard of triple cream? No.

Fucking creamy, don't you? So from there on, you were getting small roles in the school plays and things like that. You were a Sir Arnold de Bergerac and the school production of that, you seem to say. Yes, with the big nose. Yeah, what did you play in that? Oh, I can't. It was some kind of a cellar of ices of some sort. Oh, okay.

I don't remember that being in the original book. No, Ken, they just, they tried to put in things to do with the dairy world into their plays. Like those bathtub musicals or whatever that I've heard about. Corporations put on musicals and then, so these are all milk-based.

It was very much like that. It was a dairy-based school. You know, there's a downside to that. You have a kind of dairy-focused life. Well, it happened to me. My school when I was growing up was near to the Cadbury's factory.

So our school play that year was The Crunchable. Oh, The Crunchable. Was that a... About, you know, the witch trials. But it was about who had crunchies. I see, I see, yes. And of course, when you left school, one of the first projects,

I managed to find this out really randomly, although I couldn't find any evidence outside of the one fact was you started a band. Oh, yes, absolutely. I mean, the beat phenomenon was in full swing. It was, wasn't it? With the Beatles.

Early 60s, you were kicking this off. Oh, it was huge. It was everywhere. And I thought, how am I going to break into showbiz? It's going to have to be in a group of some sort, a beat group, a beat combo. So, me and a few friends from the school, we, you know,

we couldn't play very well, of course, but, you know, we tried, and we learned a few chords, as you do, and then we formed a group. We formed a group, the Ice Cream Men. Right, okay. The Ice Cream Men, because that format was very popular in the naming at the time

you know there's something men there's something men this the that yeah the who there's a lot of bands with the definitive definitive article yeah we were the ice cream men um what and so a bit kind of skiffle we started that but soon you know the decade crept up on us and it was the psychedelic was all the rage. So we were actually one of the first groups to put a concept album down. It was called The Melted Cornetto. Here's the thing. And the lead number that was a sort of motif that repeated throughout the album

was called Ice Creams Melt My Mind, you see. And then, you know, like the LSD, I never touched that. No. I used to have a little drink maybe, but never that hard stuff. Anyhow. What if they mixed it together with some cream? I would have lapped that shit right up, yes, probably. But it just stayed on the tape, the whole album,

and it was never picked up. I was going to ask you, why aren't there any... Why is there no music online? I couldn't find anything. We didn't get a deal. And I think they did press some albums, but they were all melted down and made into glocks in America. I heard. All the strange things. They made it into plastic guns, which is a bit

ironic with our peace and love message, but they take the records and they turn them into weapons of war. That must have been sobering. It was sobering and I was very disillusioned and I thought, well, that's failed

You know, we were dropped by our manager Squiffy Biscuit And he said, get out He said, get the fuck out of my office Well, that's interesting Because that's at this point Harley Bennington III, your agent, came into the scene Oh, Harley, what a lifesaver he is

Because he saw you performing at a bandstand on Aberystwyth Beach. Yes, yes. And he said, I'm going to make you a star. He did. He approached me, he saw something in me. He saw something in me, Paul. I can tell you, something I hadn't even seen in myself. No, he persuaded you to push the acting, drop the music.

He did, and it wasn't too much of a stretch for me at the time because the music was going nowhere. It was going nowhere. And my bandmates were getting deeper and deeper into the drug scene of the 60s there, you know. You don't want to get mixed in that, do you? They went to what they called tea parties. That's where they'd eat LSD cakes

and then they'd touch each other's genitals without powdering. They wouldn't powder before or after. No powdering at all? No. So with that in mind then He took you He did a few short plays Just outside the West End You did a few touring things

Nothing amazing A little bit of rap, yes But it was when you were performing in a farce Called Slap Me Daisy In I believe it was Brighton Pier you did that Brighton Pier, Slap Me Daisy, yes That really brings me back Out of interest

what did you play in that again? I was oh yeah I was I was the ice cream maid you know it was very

it was not very PC by today's standard but there was a lot of cross dressing and sort of farcical and I was yes confusion a big a huge breasted

ice cream purveying maid of some sort you know but it was that role that got you seen by Chandelier Films, who at the time were making a bunch of, well, I'm not going to say

sex comedies, but you know, like, raunchy, cheeky comedy films of the 60s. Listen, I've been around young man, I've been around, okay? Call it what it was, smut! Hard smut! It was smutty. It was hard, dirty smut. By the

time these films were getting into gear, they'd kind of changed from innocent to a bit more cheeky, naughty, dirty, you know. It was certainly in that sort of period. But, you know, I was just glad to work. Very glad to work. So, it was at that time, then, you got picked up by Chandelier Films, and they were making a film called Caw, Stroof,

Blimey. And at the time, that was being played by the comedian who was popular, Bobby Bollocks. Bobby Bollocks, oh, yes. And it was also your first appearance. You know what? Bobby Bollocks, a lot of people, I mean, of course, there's been all the talk. But putting that aside, he was a very talented comic. And he showed me a thing or two, I'll tell you, about how to deliver a line, yes.

Yeah, it was you, Bobby Bollocks, a few other people as well. Janet Mammery was cast in that in her breakthrough role. Oh, Janet Mammery, what a... Oh, you know, I just... I haven't spoken to Janet in years. Well, I'll tell you what, let's take a little quick break because we've got a clip here now from you in that first cinema role in the British sex comedy.

Are we going to show it to me on your phone? No, it's going to get edited in. I can send you a link later. On what? On my Teesmaid? It doesn't my Teesmaid doesn't it doesn't have a record button. I'll try and get it on the phone for you now.

I'd love to see it. Here's a quick clip from Call Struth Blimey from 1967. Alright, well come on, come over here. Come on, let's go up the pier and do some dodgums. Oh, I do like being banged around by men on the pier. Yeah, I fucking bet you do. Right, come on, let's go up the pier and have some fun.

Here we go. Come on, love. You are cheeky. Would you like an ice cream before we go up the pier? Oh, I'd love it. Let's have a look at this one over there. Excuse me, sir. Do you happen to sell ice creams? Oh, I have ice creams.

Oh, ice creams here. Come and get your ice creams. Oh, sir. What would you recommend, darling? Well, you've got a Zoom. You could have a Cornetto. I've got a Flake. or a salty squirrel, that's a popular one, and I've got a twisted frozen knob-jockey biscuit flake as well.

Oh, you can't get too many of them in you. Oh no, you wouldn't want to eat too many of them. So what can I get you? Oh, I don't know, what would you recommend? Well, a lot of people like a Zoom-up-em. Oh! Or if you'd like two fingers of fudge up your cone, I can stick them up there, love. Oh!

Hello, it's Eli here, and I'm here interviewing Grumpy Sessions' long-time agent and manager, Harley Bennington III. Yes, that's right. Hello. Yes, I am Harley Bennington III, literary acting agent for the stars. Yes, you have had a very... A very illustrious career.

A lustrous career. Yes, that's the word you were looking for, wasn't it? A lustrous career. That is me, in a nutshell. Yes, that's right. And thank you very much for talking to us. Yes, that's the word you were looking for, wasn't it? A lustrous career. That is me, in a nutshell. Yes, that's right. And thank you very much for talking to us. Oh, it's a pleasure. Do you want to talk about some of my favourite stars?

Well... Do you want to talk about maybe Alan Smith, the Thespian Extra? No. Do you want to talk about, oh, maybe Catherine Wickleball? She was very well known. She was very Wickleball, wasn't she? Yes, very Wickleball in her day. Indeed, indeed. She was a very good dancer. No, it wasn't actually... She was part of known. She was very wickable. Very wickable in her day.

Very good dancer. It wasn't actually any of the more well-known names. If I can call you Harvey. Is that okay? My name is Harley. So you can call me that. Harley. I beg your pardon. It's fine.

Harley. We want to ask you about Grumpy Sessions. Oh, I've not heard that name in a while. No, I know. A lot of people haven't. Grumpy, grumpy, grumpy. How is he? How is the old fart?

He's very good. He's very good. Yes, we've been interviewing him for a short piece we're doing for my podcast, Chief Show. Yes. Really? But he's a no-one. Well, he is a no-one, but he seems to be a no-one that appears throughout the years.

When we worked together, we did find many projects that we both enjoyed. They were creamy-based projects, I'll give you that. They were mainly cream-based in some way. Weirdly, it was just the way the fates allowed. You know, so you'd put a shout-out, and it'd be like ice cream. You know, the rolls would come in,

and they were mostly ice cream, cream, milk-based rolls. Yes, yes, that's what we're discovering. It's kismet! It's kismet, yes. Now, I want to take you back, though, to when you first noticed him performing with his group on the beach somewhere, wasn't it? Yes, I was holidaying in Aberystwyth Beach. It's a small little town. It's quiet.

I go there for a touch-me-nose. It's a touch-your-nose. Back in the days, the morals were relaxed. A dirty weekend, sort of thing. I'm not going to say too much more about that and what I did with Five Pigs, but we're going to move swiftly on. Swiftly on to when I heard the beautiful tone. Did the pigs move swiftly on, though,

or were they severely traumatised? I ate them. Well, at least nothing went to waste. Now, when you saw... Snout to tail is always the way it goes. When you saw Grumpy performing for the first time in that beat, in that psychedelic rock group or whatever,

what was it you saw in him? Because you scooped him up and you put him on the stage immediately. Well, here's the thing. Here's the thing. I wasn't expecting to find stardom that day, but I heard him playing his

strange music, but there was something in his eye. Something in his eye that I had to, uh, I was just attracted to. So I gave him my card, he gave me his card, and then when I came back to London, we met up a couple of, uh, bollies later, and, uh,

he was, uh, he was being offered roles left, right, and centre. Okay, amazing, amazing. And you did work together for almost 20 years on a number of projects, but then you did part ways quite acrimoniously. Is that right? I mean, I loved him. I loved him. I really loved him.

He's a lovely man, a lovely vet. He's lovely. He's a nice person. But he's got a thing about milk. Oh. For instance, I wanted to put got a thing about milk. Oh. For instance, I wanted to put him up for the milk tray man. Oh, he could have done that.

He said it was chocolate, it did not count. It didn't count as it wasn't milky enough? He did get an advert for dairy milk as well. But again, I'm not doing chocolate. He wouldn't do chocolate, he was not a chocolate man. So what was the incident that finally caused you to part ways there in the early 80s? I thought I'd capitalise on his unusual proclivity for ice cream-based performances. And I'd heard about a story in Glasgow about this so-called quote-unquote ice cream war.

And we were developing this. And then, as you know, creative differences. I wanted facts, and he just wanted to offer Zooms. It's all really... He just wanted to offer the Zooms. I think, yeah, I mean... I didn't think he quite had the range for the head gangster character. Yes, that's the thing.

He isn't known for his accent work, is he, Grumpy? No. And the next time you see him asking about his Scottish accent, he couldn't do it. He couldn't do it. He couldn't do it. So that was it all over. And I said things I regret, and he said things he forgets. And one way or the other, I left him on the platform at Charing Cross Road all those years ago,

and I've never seen him since. No, no. Never seen him. I'm glad. Not until this, no. Never seen him. I'm glad to know. Not until this very day. You saw him today? No, you're telling me he's alive. I didn't know he's alive.

I thought he was dead the last time. He was shacked up with his bloody mother. Yes, he was. He was. His mother's in a... Home now. In a home now. Yeah, beastly woman so you're getting a bit of a name in you know in uh the british film industry for bit parts

and character work yes um but it was interesting that your next major film which is a few years later after doing some tv and stage stuff was um one of the most popular horror films of the 1970s a British horror film called The Thatched Hand of Beelzebub's Gizzard Yes, it was a sort of folk horror they'd call it these days it was very much around at the time you know why I think

I have a little theory about this because you'd go into the countryside and before it had been filled with normal, respectable families, but in that time, in the sort of mid to late 70s, it was all those hippies, all filthy, squelching around in the fields. People thought it was devil worship. Well, here's the thing.

And so I think that was the sort of background for this whole, what they now call... The folk horror. The folk horror. And I was just quite glad to, you know, to diversify into a different genre at the time. Yeah, because if I remember rightly, this is the first film you played which was a lead and also not ice cream based. No. That must have been shocking for you.

It was quite difficult. I had to, you know, I had a coach, a coach on that, that film. And Harley got you that, your agent got you that. Oh, darling, Harley. He was so good at that time. He had a finger in all the little pies, all the little squeaky pies. And he, yes, he got it for me because he was very, he was very, he used to go to the social clubs all around.

So at the time, he was very good friends with Richard Big Boy, Biggie Big Dig Boy, Bigging Boy. Big Boy, Bigging, Big. Dick Bigging Boy, Riggington, Richie, Richie, Dickington Big Boy, who directed the film. Riggie, Dickie, Big Bong, Diggily. Big Boy, who directed the film. Ricky, Dickie, Bing, Bong, Diggly. Big Bong, Dickie, Dickie, Boy. I can never remember his name. Uh, Dickie Boy,

Richard, Big Boy, Dickie Boy, Richard, Dickie, Dickie, Dickie Boy, Dickie, Richie. Anyway. Dickie, Dickie, Dickie, Dickie. Calm down. Dickie, Dickie, Big Boy. Was it a bit of a shock for you, though, to go from, you know, ice cream men to, you know, police detectives in this film? It was, like I say, it was a very big leap at the time, big boy. Was it a bit of a shock for you though to go from, you know, ice cream men to, you know, police detective?

It was, like I say, it was a very big leap at the time but I'm glad I left. Yeah. Because people remember they stopped me on the street. How did you feel

about that film? Because I know it was, you know, it's very gory towards the end. It's very gory. It's not for me. I like more gentle,

fair, you know, comedies and so forth but, you know, people still recognise me. They go, oh, they're burning the turkey. Oh, and I have to do the line, of course. Yeah, so it was Harley trying to push you away from that kind of stuff then in terms of, you know, more genie roles.

He was trying to make you more edgy. Yeah, absolutely, yes. He wanted me to be you know like a you know in in in thrillers yeah that was where the big money was at that time well what we're going to do is we're going to play a clip now from that film and the clip we've got is where well spoilers but you know it is a 40 50 year old film yes of course it's the bit where you're about to be stuffed inside the turkey yes they lure me into the turkey I'm looking for I'm looking for

What was it like preparing for that? Your big death scene The missing children of the village And then they lure me into what I think is an underground hut Turns out to be a huge pagan wooden turkey It's one of the most memorable shots of the 70s And they baste it with this huge syringe Wooden syringe, wooden syringe,

filled with fat. Where do you go as a performer, though, there? We just have to think, oh, Grumpy, it's the middle of the night. Oh, Grumpy, and oh, oh, Mummy's not here. Where's the powder? Where's the powder, George?

So you found it quite traumatising, that role. Oh! I'm going to presume that's a yes. Okay, well then, we're going to play a little clip from that film now, and hopefully it brings back some memories of quite an unusual role in your life. Okay. What's this? What have you done with the children?

Officer Cartwright, you came here looking for the children. Yes. There are no children. What? You came here looking for salvation. There is no salvation. Let me out of here. You, at this special time of the year, will become our living Paxo.

For you shall be inside our Turkey and the great Lord gobble gobble will take your soul I give us props for the new year Oh, no! Oh, golly! Get him in! Oh, no! Oh, no! They're basting the turkey! Now, subjects, friends, villagers, set this torch aflame and put this turkey upon our very souls. Run for me! Golly! Start the fire! Oh, Jiminy,imes! Oh! Oh!

Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh!

Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh!

Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh!

Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh!

Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh!

Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh!

Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh!

Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh!

Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh!

Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh!! I'm a good man to the house. a grumpy in a lot of those. a man to who was the co-star with Grumpy in a lot of those sex comedy films he did.

Of course, there was Call Blimey Struth, and then there was Confessions of an Ice Cream. Oh, that was my favourite one. Yes. That was the best one in the trilogy. There was Further Confessions of an Ice Cream Seller, and then there was... Well, there was ice cream seller. And then there was... Well, there was that one, wasn't there?

What was that one we did in the early 70s? The... Oh. Are you thinking of Wet Patch? No. No, okay. Anyway, thank you so much, Mammery. Oh, no, don't you worry about it, darling.

It's nice to speak to people. I don't get a lot of visitors these days, darling. Oh, that's a shame. That's a shame. But we're all both, me and Paul, are both massive fans of your work. Oh, and the concession of the ice cream salesman. That was the other one. Concession.

Concession. So it's a pun on the kiosk. Concessions of an ice cream. That was the one. Yeah. And there was also Hot Kiosk and Hot Kiosk 2. There was Hot Kiosk 2, the battening. Yes.

And there's lots of, oh, we had such great fun on those films. Yes. We reallying. Yes. There's lots of, oh, we had such great fun on those films. Yes. We really did. Yes. And it really comes across still to this day when you're watching that. You and Grumpy,

can you tell me when you first met him? Was it on the set of a film? Well, I first met, well, we first met on the set of that film. Oh, the one with the whoops called Blimey

with Bobby Bollocks. I don't speak to him no more. Yes,y with Bobby Bollocks I don't speak to him no more I don't speak to him no more he knows what he's done he knows what he's done yes

well he's got if I see him again I'll fucking slap his mouth well he has a life sentence now to consider what he's done for the best yes

so anyway but yeah so we met on that film and it was my first role and they only asked me to get my tits out twice oh that's good it was a classy role yeah and um you

know it's just a bit of fun bit of giggling falling over dress falls off uh stick a flake up your bum hole you know all that kind of stuff innocent fun yes it was a more innocent time a lot of people say um uh i don't remember too much about grumpy that day, but I do remember he was a lovely man. Well, you did develop a friendship over the years. You were often seen together, and a lot of people speculated that you two had a little romantic thing going on. Was that true at all? Oh, no. No, bless his heart.

I love him. I love him to death. But always like a brother. He's like a friend. So it's more of a platonic friendship going on. Oh, yeah, and he never had any designs for me like that. He was never really a sexual man. No.

And he wasn't with me, and I could confess anything to him. Okay. I told him all about Big Bob. Right, good. Well, it's been lovely talking to you. Is that it? I put some clothes on for this. Have you?

Do you see Grumpy anymore these days? No, I haven't. I thought, isn't he dead? No, no. A lot of people we've been talking to have said that. I thought he was dead. No, he's still up there. Where?

Oh, I should go see him. I should catch up with him, shouldn't I? Yeah. Oh, we had such fun. Here's the thing about Grumpy, right? Lots of love. Lots of excitement. He's very passionate.

Just no screen presence. You know what I mean? No screen no screen presence doesn't glow up that the number of times we had to change his ice cream costume because it was he made it more drab he somehow makes stuff more drab he really did make it we want you're gonna love this we were filming fruity nut clusters free right fruity nut clusters through nut clusters free and he had a little role it did him a favor because he's on he was on his knees at that point in his career you know yeah it did degenerate sort of yeah by the end of the 70s he really couldn't really get the role so i as a little favor i called him in and said listen we're looking for an ice cream man for this film do you have the time and he you know he was up for it so we got him in so anyway dressed

him up usual he was a concession in a cinema cinema, he had the little tray, little hat on, looked it, put him on set, put the cameras on him, looked like a dentist. So we had to go completely, so I put some lipstick on him,

we put some dress, we put some more ice creams, more colourful ice creams in his box. I see. Long story short, the scene was cut. Well, yes,

I know, he's not accredited in any of the nut clusters. But he got paid and that's what matters, doesn't it darling? We've got to protect ourselves in this acting industry, darling. well thank you mammery so

much and you would you like to see my tits before you go i don't have the time but thank you all right well you you remember me you tell me if you see grumpy you tell him about old janet i will i'll say you do that for me okay i will darling all right we'll see you then bye bye so that was your big role yes horror film it was a cult hit it wasn't a box office stormer but you know

it's on blu-ray now high definition lots of extra footage people love the film now yes they do it was a real cult like you say you know

it it I didn't like that stuff myself. But more importantly for me, was that that film opened a lot of people's eyes to the whole Grumpy phenomenon, you know? Well, that was what I was going to say, because it was leading into the 80s and you were getting into TV,

because films, you know, people were making more of a career on TV than film. Yes, TV was really exploding at the time. You know, a lot of people didn't have colour televisions in their homes until that period, you know, but they were coming thick and fast, thick and fast.

And because I got noticed in the Turkey film. In that Turkey film where you played a copper. I played a policeman there and they, you know, with Harley's help, I played a policeman there and they, and you know with Harley's help, I secured a pilot

where I was to play Oh yes, yes, yes, yes, that's right. I was to play a detective, you see, because of the police thing and solving crimes around London Like the Sweeney kind of, yeah. A bit like that, in the underworld of London.

You drove a fast car. I drove a, and also an ice cream truck. Yeah, that was it. You drove a fast ice cream truck. It was a souped up. It was Choc Ice Private Detective, wasn't it? I was Choc Ice. Choccy Ice Private Detective.

Was Choc Ice your first or last name? Or was it Choc Ice? I was Choc. As in Charlie Charlie you see Charlie Ice but Chuck Ice was the Heiss with an H it was written down it looks like Charlie Heiss

but then you know it was like in the thrust and the thick of it in the office in the police station you know people get nicknames Codger, Bodger. All right, Choc-Eyes.

Oh, Detective Choc-Eyes. So that's how you get your nickname in the show. Ah. And then what, the ice cream van was just... I don't know. I think they liked the look of me in an ice cream van. And I did sort of insist as well, you know, to have some... I like ice creams.

I'm getting an idea of it, yeah. But it was very exciting. I got to do a pilot. You got to be an action hero. I've seen some of the shots, you leaping over the ice cream van, shooting and then, you know, a car chase. Very much. I was at physical prime at that stage. You know, I would chase them down. Sometimes I'd have to get the ice cream van souped up.

It was very souped up. It had a turbo thing. You know, this was a few years before that Knight Rider, but we had a special flake machine built in. It wasn't a real thing. It was a prop. Yeah, a prop. But it supercharged the engine in the story.

It supercharged the engine of this ice cream van. To make it faster. To make it go faster. And that would be the new one, you see. And also that. Oh, no, I'm running out of power. I'd say, oh, no, the villain, he's going to get away. Oh, get the flake and supercharge the ice cream van.

Zonk, zonk, zonk. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then it, vroom, you see, vroom, would go. High octane. And then it would mow him down. Wow. It would mow, we always used to kill. All the scripts had me killing the villains at the end.

In some kind of way, yeah. Running them down. And you'd say some line like, I've got you licked, and things like that. That was the plan, wasn't it? Oh, yes. I'll have you whipped for this. Oh, yes. Oh, you'll whipped for this. Oh, yes.

Oh, you'll never eat an ice cream again in this town. Yeah. Oh. Sprinkle some hundreds and thousands on that, you bastard. Go ahead, punk. Make my flake. Lick my flake. Yeah, that kind of thing.

Oh. Well, I did have a... Here's the thing, though. The pilot was made, but it was never produced. And unfortunately, what happened was, like most things, it was sold to America. And they turned Choc Ice, Private Detective, into, as of course, we all know now, Magnum P.I.

Where they took it out of London, they put it on Hawaii. They had a nice cream van. It was a Lamborghini. I know. I was so disappointed with what they did. They took the heart and soul out of that show. They really did. They destroyed it, really.

But it's been out of circulation for a while. We found the clip. We're going to play a clip for you now. Hopefully it'll bring back some memories of you and your failed pilot, Choc Ice, Private Detective. Oh, how exciting. You sit your arse down there, Tumpy. Sit down!

Ooh, I... Whatever. Listen, I ain't done nothing. I was just trying to sell my dongas down the market, yeah? Tumpy, shut your mouth and shut your mouth and sit down and shut your mouth. We've got a detective coming in here now. He's going to rinse you dry and he's going to get all the information out. So without any further ado, I'm going to give you Chockeye's private detective.

Deal with him. Yes, hello, you. Now, who have we got here? It says here, Tumpy Cockney. Is that your name, really? I ain't telling you nothing. Who are you, some kind of pumped-up ice cream? Listen, I ain't seen nothing. Now, you listen to me, little Tumpy, if that is your name. We've got you banged to rights on the corner of Marylebone and St. Hetherington Street, and you were seen removing dongers through the window.

Ain't nothing to do with me, mate. I moved on from dongers. I've got eggs. I've got all sorts of eggs now. Big eggs, small eggs, all sorts of eggs. You ask anyone. Yes, there's more where that came from, Tumpy, my boy, my boy. Now, you better be remembering who your... You better be remembering who your accomplices were in the Wentworth job, or else you'll be in the slammer for as long as I'm selling ice creams on the weekends, which I do.

All right, whatever! Fucking throw me in there! Get off me! Put him back in the cell, Johnson! Fuck off! Who wants a donger? I've got eggs! Slap and splat! Chock eyes!

What are we going to do with him, a scum like that? How are we going to get the information out of him? I have my ways. I find a lot of these villains turn when they have a cold zoom inserted up them. You're a beast. A beast, Choc-Eyes. But I like the way you work. That's right, Choc-Eyes.

So yeah, There's the clip And sadly Never picked up Oh I know So much potential We know what happened To the character Of Tumpy

In real life They got their own show He got his own Spin off show And I was very bitter Of course I've forgiven him now Yeah He's a very talented

Seven seasons of that He's living in It ran and ran It ran and ran But you know What I think Personally I'm not bitter About it anymore Seven seasons of that. He's living in Malta now, isn't he? It ran and ran and ran. But you know what I think, personally. I'm not bitter about it anymore. But, you know, the first two or three seasons of Tumpy,

when he's poor, he's trying to sell the dongers on the street. It was more interesting, wasn't it? It was more interesting. He gets married. He wins the lottery. And by the sixth season, he's living in Marbella. He's a rich man. And there's no tension. There's no drama. he's a rich man. And there's no tension.

There's no drama. There's no struggle anymore. Chuck Ice burnt too brightly. Chumpy little bastard he was to me on the set as well. When we were filming that pilot, he'd come up, he'd slap me around. Ooh. Ooh. Well, that's the thing.

These days, Chumpy resides in Spain and he gets away with goddamn murder out there, apparently. I've heard rumours, but, you know, we're not going to go into it. Let me just say, like, you know, those dongers, he never washes them. Oh. Oh, no. That's why they smell of clam. Oh, dirty, clammy dongers. So, that show didn't go any further.

No. But you did get one last TV role in the 80s. Oh, you're just reminding me of this now. It's been a while. Oh, this is a real highlight. In the 80s, the BBC tried to come up with a kind of new Doctor Who, and they had a show. I seem to remember it was called The Protector Kids.

That's right, The Protector Kids. They were protecting the Earth from aliens and space monsters. And they travelled around in a... It was almost like a phone box, that would be too obvious. But it was more like a kind of sled, a space sled, wasn't it? It was very, yes. It was a very sled-like... Luge, like a space luge kind of thing.

And they would go from planet to planet, protecting Earth and then fighting demons and ghosts and all sorts. And I was the master of a whole planet of ice. That's right, yes. I was the lord. I could control ice. You were Ice Lord. Ice Lord. And you know, some of this ice was flavoured like a slushie

and some, you know, was almost creamy. I insisted on that. And you could eat some of the ice that I created for a reasonable price. Yeah, because I seem to remember you got to have one of those beautiful villain monologues, which we're going to play in a little moment, where you monologue. But unfortunately, you know, your villain dies.

You're melting at the end. I did have the one episode, and they got me. I melted. Yeah, yeah. But it was a good little story, a good little adventure. Oh, thank you. I mean, I've seen you at the conventions. Yes, I melted. It's a good little story, a good little adventure. Thank you. I mean, I've seen you at the conventions. Yes, I do. You weren't invited to them, but I've seen you at them.

I sort of hang around, see if anyone likes me. Do any of the kids from Protect the Kids recognise you now? No, they look at me with fear in their eyes and they go, it's him! It's him! And then I get arrested. But of course, that show didn't last,

and you weren't going to be brought back anytime soon. Well, I was hoping, because of course, there's a lot of reincarnation, and people, villains you thought were banished forever, or dead, or melted. I mean, I was melted. They could have frozen me, and sort of reanimated me in some way.

Yeah, shame it never went further. Yes. But, okay, I'll tell you what, we've got a clip for it way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shame it never went further. Yes. But, okay, well, I'll tell you what, we've got a clip for it now. And, of course, after that, that's when I parted way with Harley Bennington. So I'll tell you what, we're going to play a little clip now

of that episode of Protector Kids and hopefully bring back some very fun memories for you. Oh, fantastic. Here we go. Roll the clip. You've fallen right into my trap. Here we go, roll the clip. Ha ha ha ha! You've fallen right into my trap! I've captured you in my cave of ice!

Protector Kids, prepare to freeze! Oh, you don't know nothing, Governor, for we are Protector Kids, and we saw through your trap, and we have got a plan to put you back in space jail. Stop your twittering and wittering, you. I see all through the prism of ice. I control the ice planets.

I transform the planets of your solar system into big balls of flavoured ice. Mercury will be a gobstopper. And then Venus will be a big milky cloud of vanilla 99.

And Earth will be a sorbet like those ones you get at Indian restaurants and, you know, they've carved out a grapefruit or something and put it with sorbet in. Planet after planet will be engulfed in my icy beams and soon the whole universe will fall to my ice cream rays and no one, no one will ever stop me. Well, that's what you think, Governor, because what you didn't know is that I am a transformer

child and I am going to transform into nothing but a simple household thermostat and I'm going to warm your planet right up, Governor. Here we go. Oh, I'm getting the place nice and warm oh no he's turned it up oh i've started to oh i've started to warm my ice cream razor they're not working they're ineffective nothing oh my face is starting to ice cream that, Governor. No one can ever defeat the Protecto Kids. Right, let's go all home, Protecto Kids, and have some lovely fizzy sherbet.

Hooray! And so that was it. That was the Protecto Kids. That was your last TV role. Unfortunately, me and Harley, we parted company very soon after that, with that terrible fiasco, with that ice cream war.

He said, I think I remember him saying it was because you couldn't do a Scottish accent. Oh, I could do a Scottish accent. Oh, really? Yes. Why don't you do it now? Audition. Audition. Okay, okay, I will, okay. A little bit of role play, come on. Oh, really? Yes. Why don't you do it now? I audition. I audition for you.

Okay. Okay. I will. Okay. A little bit of role play. Go on. All right. I will. Okay.

So what should I say? So you're a Scottish ice cream man. Yes. And you're trying to sell me a Scottish ice cream. Okay. All right. And action. Hey, Jimmy.

I've done a job. Would you like a zoom in your asshole? Yeah. You know, it probably wasn't the best at that. I need some time to warm up to these things. That's fair. But anyway, so after that, so what did you do?

Well, 89, that was that episode. What did you do in the next 30 years? You know, this and that, whatever I could find, bits and pieces, odds and bods, bits and... Did you get any more stage work? No, no stage work. TV?

No, no. Film? Extra? I didn't do any extra work. Radio? Radio is quite difficult to break into sometimes. Right.

So you've just basically just been keeping to yourself? Mainly. Mainly. Okay. Well, I'll tell you what I think that's about

as much time as I can spare, unfortunately. Well, you can stay. I've got to meet with Eli now. You can stay. I've got to start editing all this as well. Well, you know, it's quite early still. You can stay and have another cup of tea. You haven't touched your tea.

I haven't touched that. I'm sorry. I've just been so engrossed. Is there something wrong with the tea? No, I was just engrossed with that conversation. We could watch the telly now. Oh, hang on. Oh, I have this week's radio.

I think my phone's ringing. This week's Radio Times. We could see what's on the TV. Oh, yeah, my phone's ringing. Sorry, I've got to... Hello? Yeah, no, it's Eli saying I can't meet him.

Oh, say hello to him. That's where I'm going to go. And we're going to pass your love on to Harley and Janet because we're speaking to them as well during this episode. Oh, say hello to the host. We'll say hello.

I'll just let myself out. Yes, you know the way. At the very least, we hope all our listeners are going to be thinking of Grumpy this Christmas. Oh, how nice. Thank you. Thank you, Paul. That's lovely.

Thank you for your time with us today. And you look after yourself, and we'll hopefully see you soon. I'll try. Thank you. Bye-bye. I'll let myself out. Take care. Bye-bye.

Bye-bye, Paul. Oh, there he goes. Oh, well. Here again. The living room. Watch some telly. Oh, you know what? They're putting out that documentary.

Perhaps some interest will be raised in old Grumpy Sessions. Or maybe this is the beginning of the renaissance of Grumpy. Oh, that's exciting, isn't it? Grumpy, Grumpy could be back again. I'm going to go to bed, I think. Oh, yes, Merry Christmas, Grumpy Sessions. Have a lovely, lovely Christmas, you. Oh, you lovely man.

Fresh powder.