Chewing the Fat with Jeff Fisher - Ep 170 | Manson Family Murder Anniversary | Guest: Dianne Lake

Episode Date: August 10, 2019

If you’ve seen ONCE UPON A TIME IN HOLLYWOOD, you’ll know Dianne as the lookout when Brad Pitt’s character visits Spahn Ranch.  The scenes on the Ranch are striking, given the sheer amount of young women who were living on the ranch and enthralled with ‘Charlie”.  Through her own experience, Dianne explains just how Charles Manson recruited, trained and manipulated these vulnerable young women: PHYSICAL AND MENTAL ABUSE: For the first time in detail, Dianne lays out the full extent of Charles Manson’s physical abuse, which started early in her time with the Family. Detailing how Dianne was a frequent target of his beatings, she explains how Manson wielded violence to control the girls, frequently combining it with mental abuse, sexual manipulation, and rape. TRAINING THE GIRLS: Here Dianne takes you inside Manson’s process of indoctrination, explaining not only how he kept the girls with him, but also how he taught Family members to become con men and women of their own. He would teach them how to manipulate others, using these skills to recruit new members to the group and often prostituting the girls out to men for his own gain. A 14-YEAR-OLD IN AN ADULT’S WORLD: Underage for the entirety of her time in the Family, Dianne explains the lies and deceptions—from fake IDs to lying to the authorities, to convincing her to stay out of photographs, that Manson engaged in to help keep her age a secret. With the anniversary of the Manson Family murder of Sharon Tate and her friends approaches, I wanted to remind you of Dianne Lake’s eye-opening memoir that was released just two years ago. A poignant and compelling memoir of survival, MEMBER OF THE FAMILY is Dianne Lake’s disturbing and powerful testament of her time with one of the 20th Century’s most notorious criminal figures: Charles Manson. If you are planning any coverage tied to the anniversary, I hope you’ll include Dianne’s memoir in your plans.  She will also be featured on Oxygen’s special “Manson: The Women” on 8/10. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to a special edition of Chewing the Fat, a special Saturday edition of Chewing the Fat. Make sure you subscribe to Chewing the Fat, download and rate and review, please. I'd be very thankful for you to do that. You can follow me on social media too. At Jeffrey JFR on Twitter, Jeff Fisher Radio on Facebook and Instagram. So it's been 50 years, 50 years this week, that the Charles Manson murders took place. amazing. One of the most, you know, a huge story here in the United States.

And I had an opportunity to talk to Diane Lake, who was part of the Manson family. And she wrote a book that was entitled My Story of Charles Manson, Life Inside His Cult, and the Darkness that Ended the 60s. And she's had a fascinating life between becoming part of Charles Manson, as family to getting away from it and yet keeping it hidden and then bringing it back to the forefront again. And so I wanted you to give a listen to Diane Lake on this anniversary of the horrific evil madman Charlie Charles Manson.

One of the most iconic criminals in America is a guy by the name of Charles Manson. and the people that surrounded him and, you know, were convicted of murder, the Manson murders, for being Charlie's girls. But there were also other people around him in his, in his, I'll say cult, but they would say we're not a cult. We're just, you know, family. and Diane Lake is one of those people who were one of Charlie's girls, part of his family, and she has a book called Member of the Family, My Story of Charles Manson, Life Inside His Cult. So, you know, you get away with calling it a cult.

I don't know that at the time anyone ever considered it a cult. Diane, look, I know, you know, the book covers your whole life, and, you know, you start out with your childhood that, you know, everybody's childhood has had some scarring, but it appeared that your childhood played a pretty big role as leading you into becoming, you know, one of Charlie's girls. Is that the right impression I'm getting? I think so.

Yes, I don't think that with a different lifestyle, I would have had an opportunity to meet him. You never know. Right. I mean, you know, teenagers can be, you know. I know, I understand. You know, and go off on their own and actually, you know, yeah. So let's talk a little bit.

You were part of, you know, you're part of the, you know, now this, and I hate to use the word iconic, but it really is just, you know, this United States criminal family of Charles Manson, and he's such this, you know, this evil bad guy in our minds. But he wasn't that way always. And let's talk a little bit about when you first started, you know, when you first met him and became part of, you know, the family. He was a musician. He, you know, played the guitar and he wrote all these songs in prison.

And he came out and found himself in the middle of the, you know, 67. Right. It came the summer of love. He got out like in the spring of 67. And, you know, he was prepared to be a pimp. You know, a musician playing, you know, a music playing pimp. Right.

But, you know, he found free love and, you know, the hippie scene, long hair. People were just breaking all the rules, you know, of, you know, the what was, was considered the normal society. And he just, and he had this uncanny ability to become any number of people to, so that he would fit in, whether it was for survival, manipulation, or just providing what we needed or what people that he met needed. He could do that. He just had this uncanny ability to become.

any number of different people. And so he just morphed into, you know, a long-haired hippie-goo kind of guy. Right. You know, singing his music and, you know, smoking pot and taking some LSD and, you know, gathering us broken-winged girls along the way. And when the,

when you broken-wing girls would come in, um, how'd that, how did that, how'd that, how'd that, how'd that, how'd that work? how did it bring into you where you finally were like, oh, I'm okay with with everyone else here too

because we're all Charlie's girls. You know what I mean? We're all part of that. Well, we really, maybe because of his philosophy, maybe because of the counterculture, we weren't really in competition with each other. It was, you know,

kind of like an open sisterhood. Okay. So we were all like sisters to one another. and because of, you know, get rid of your inhibitions and all that, kind of shirked off any feelings that we had that this was wrong, that we shouldn't be sharing lover, you know, lovers. Right, right, right. All of that, you know, kind of was ingrained in us that this was a new way of living.

And it was, if it was okay, you were already saying goodbye to the, what was considered normal anyway. So the rest of it just added on with that. It really didn't seem that, it didn't seem that wrong or strange. And he was very playful, very impish. He just was. He was very playful and fun. At least that's how I remember him at the beginning.

So how long before you really started to realize, something's up or I don't feel right and you know this just isn't quite right or did it take until the end until it was falling apart no it was probably about a maybe a little bit over a year or maybe yeah

it was about a year later when I realized that oh the whole kind of demeanor of for sure him, but the whole construct of the family was kind of changing. And I had disobeyed him. As I was supposed to stay up in the desert. We started, you know, really when it all started to go kind of crazy was when we were

introduced to the ranches up in Death Valley. And, you know, he saw this as a very secluded place and his idea of this race war an hour, you know, he just started getting delusioned about him being a Messiah of some variety, whether it was the second coming of Christ or whatever, although he did experience a crucifixion on LSD, which he did reenact at times on acid trip for new members or, you know, a gathering of people. Amazing. On acid.

So you're out in the desert. You're out of the desert with the ranches, okay. Right. And, but he was trying to get us, like, moved from Spawn Ranch to the desert with supplies, with gasoline, with food, with, you know, everything that we would need to hunker down. That's a lot of money. During this race war. And his last, you know, the Dennis Wilson rock star thing didn't want.

work out, I think primarily because Charlie really did not want to be changed. He didn't want to change his clothes. He didn't want to redo his hairstyle. You know, he didn't want to change the words to his music. Interesting. Kind of thing. And so they, so, you know, they got in some arguments. And Dennis's brothers thought, you know, he was, you know, off his rocker.

And so. So it's interesting that... So that didn't work out. They was still hoping, you know, they were still dangling a carrot that maybe, you know, they could get him a recording contract somewhere or make an album. And that's where Terry Melcher came in. But we still had people on the outside looking, looking in, thinking that he was, that he was, you know, off as rocker, like, as you said.

Right. So that had to, you know, maybe play some kind of role for, some of the people on the inside if they were, you know, really witnessing some of that. That's interesting. Well, he just became much more focused on earning money any which way. The whole family was kind of, you know, we started up a nightclub in the saloon. That didn't last long. Police didn't appreciate, you know, a pop-up nightclub.

And, you know, I think Tex and one of the other. girls made up of some kind of brew of Bella Ghana, you know, text came on the scene. He's doing, you know, he's obviously involved in drug deals, which we never had been involved in before. And things just started to go wrong, but it was all, I think, in this push to earn enough money to get supplies to go to the hunker down in the desert. Yeah, it's expensive. Right.

That's when things changed. You know, the straight Satan's got involved with guns and knives and, you know, the Bernard Crow thing, the Black Panther, and then the White Album. Okay, then the White Album came up and Charlie was sure that they were sending him a saloonal message, you know. Right. And so that's when the black, this black white race war that he'd been talking about forever now became Helter Skelter. you know, and the Piggies and the Blackbird and all of that all started to take on significance.

He played it backwards. He played it forwards. He played it slow. He played it fast. You know, and it just, he kind of went off there. You know, he, he, that's when the whole thing changed.

It kind of, it kind of changed. And I disobeyed him. I was supposed to stay in the desert and I didn't. And I came back right into the middle of all that. And so then he tried to, you know, pack me off back to my parents. But, you know, I was like too far gone in all the Charlieisms and the talks and the songs and all of that, but I just felt like a crazy person. And so I found my way back. And then he took me to Gary Hinman's. And then, you know, I didn't like being with him. I mean, he was a very sweet man. But I, you know, so he took me

back to Spawn Ranch. I think Lynette was still there with George. But, you know, there was another commune that it moved in in the back house and these little outlaw shacks along the road. And so, you know, I ended up with them and taking a bad acid trip. And so anyway, I ended up back with, you know, with the family. And I just, you know, at that point, I didn't know where to go. So I just, you know, I hung in there low profile, took care of the kids, you know, little the babies and whatnot. I just, you know, I just took on a low profile. So when the murders happened, and, you know, all of that started, you know,

foot coming down and falling apart, you did not have anything to do with that, correct? Correct. And I'm, you know, I'm sure. I didn't. I was there at the back house at Spawn Ranch, and I was there the morning that Leslie came back and I was woken up by her burning stuff in the fireplace that smelled awful. It was like a purse and a rope and she had a bag of money and then somebody, you know, in a car came down the road.

She said, uh, don't let them see me. Those are the people that gave me a ride, you know, from Griffith Park. Wow. And so I went to the door and, you know, had a conversation and no, I, you know, I don't know who you're talking about. And, um, and they left. and then it was, I think, that afternoon that I got whisked off to O'Lancho, which is like the gateway to Death Valley, and it was off in a meeting place for us. So it wasn't unusual, and that's when text told me, you know, he got a newspaper and slapped it and said, I did this.

Charlie told me to. And then I was like, oh, my gosh. And I had actually just gotten back from being arrested for, you know, being a runaway or, I mean, vagrancy, whatever. I don't know what they were going to try to charge me with, but I didn't have any ID and they felt I was underage, which I was. And, you know, I gave them a fake ID from, I mean, not an actual physical fake ID, but, you know, an alias that I've been arrested with in Ventura County. And so they let me go. and that officer took me home to his house. You know, I took a shower.

I slept on their couch. They gave me food, a hat, gave me money, and he took me back to where he picked me up the next day and gave me five bucks. That's incredible. You know, back in 69, that was a lot of money. Yeah, that's incredible. So we're talking to Diane Lake.

It's when I got back. That's when Tech told me. Right. What happened? What's going on? Right. But I know, and I would not have come back. Well, I mean, it was kind of a sign for you not to come back, right?

With the officer and his family being so nice to you and, you know, trying to help you out. And you just, you know, you just were oblivious to the signs. Right. Right. Well, and I didn't know. I mean, it was when I got, when he dropped me back off on the road and I went back to where we were camped out. That's when Pecks told me what he had done. And so then what?

I mean, where are you at now? I mean, text tells you, hey, this is what we did. Charlie told me to do this. I'm scared to death to leave. It's like, oh, my gosh, if they could do that, you know, they're going to kill me. And I, you know, I don't remember exactly what, you know, text said because I was kind of like really blown away. but, you know, whether he threatened me not to leave again. Anyway, so I ended up going up to the desert, and then once you're in the desert, I mean, you're way, way far away from any civilization.

And so I was really kind of stuck, and we went through all kinds of, you know, survival missions and, you know, walking in the hot desert. and every day we'd camp out under these sand-colored parachutes, and then at night we would walk back to the ranch and do the cooking and bathing or whatever, and then at dawn we'd go back. And so I really, and the two of the gals did escape. And, you know, Charlie had us all, you know, shaking the bushes for them. And I really felt in my heart, oh, my gosh, if they had found these girls, they would have been killed.

Right. And so I They didn't No they escaped Amazing you know That they were able to negotiate In the dark down Golar wash And then you know

The Ballarat And then from Ballarat I think the closest town is Trona I mean how many times have I gone down Guller Gulch though I mean it's I'm with you Diane I know that Guller Gulch man It's been tough enough during the day

Little alone at night And you've been there Been down Guller Guller Wach I'm just, no, I'm just joking. I want to say yes, I have, but I haven't. I was just joking. Oh, no, it's just extremely, you know, remote and, you know, snakes and, uh, anyway. I got it.

So, all right, so. So I managed to escape the first raid that I got caught in the second raid with Charlie and, you know, was in jail with the rest of the girls. They put us all in the same cell and the guys all in the same cell. and but Susan had a warrant out for her arrest, which sent her to L.A. women's jail. And then she started, she had to have really believed the whole thing because she started telling her cellmates,

you know, about Helter Skelter and her participation and starting it, you know, with these murders. She believed it, yeah. She had to have. Yeah. Absolutely. You know, I mean, I guess,

Yes, during this war, the prison doors were going to just fall off and, you know, they were going to escape to Death Valley. So then they brought us to the grand jury, and it wasn't until then. And I think that that grand jury, you know, we arrested in October, and that took place, I believe, in December, like early December. And that was the first time that I had felt safe enough and sane enough to say to the bailiff, you know, before I went into the grand jury. jury that what my real name was, I'm Diane Lake, I'm 16, and I want my mommy. I bet, yeah. I want out of this, you know, I'm in a mess. Right.

Kind of thing, so. Right. So that was the beginning of my telling the truth. Did once that happen, and, you know, obviously you helped and, you know, we, we know, the outcome of, you know, Charlie and Charles and, you know, the girls. but let's talk a little bit about what happened with you then. You were your parents, you know, welcoming? Were they welcoming?

Were they ready to help? Or was that another struggle in itself? They were. My parents had separated. My mom had like remarried and had a baby. And I had no idea where they were. So they made me a ward of the court and they committed me to Patent State Hospital for 90 days, which then became like eight months.

But that probably really saved my life. I mean, not only was I safe, but I learned how to play the flute. I went to school. The nurses were my moms. I learned how to crochet. You know, I saw lots of mental illness. I saw bulimia. And, you know, we were throwing up our food because we didn't want.

want to get fat. And I, you know, I saw this woman that was just a bag of bones. And so it was like, oh, so I stopped throwing up my food. And, you know, there were other people with alcoholism, you know, that were repeat customers. I saw a lot of illness. I saw a lot of mental illness that I then, I think, really helped me avoid that. And then at the end, my arresting officer in Manuel County took me in as a foster child. which really gave me back my self-worth and he helped me get through the trial.

So, um, was that, now, was that the same guy that it helped you before? No. Okay. No. Same, same sheriff's department, but a different, a different guy. Right. I mean, that's, that's great, right? I mean, you, you touched, you touched a couple people's hearts and they were willing to help you.

That's, that's fantastic. So you had, you went 47 years, according to this book, without talking about it, really. And, you know, Diane Lake, member of the family, the story of Charles Manson, life inside his cult and the darkness that ended the 60s. What turned you around and said, you know what? I want to tell my story and tell a little bit about what was going on in the Manson head, in the Manson family. Well, it had kind of been in the back of my mind, you know, for a few years, but my husband of 35 years died, and I was trying to refine my, you know, find who I am now. And as a Christian, I really wanted to give glory to God. and this was the one thing that I had to do that,

because it's only by the grace of God that I came through that, relatively unscathed, you know, really not traumatized, and put back together and led a really incredible life, you know, since then. And I just put it behind me, actually, the man I'm married to now, because then I got remarried. But we had been friends and fallen in love and gone to Europe back in 73 to 75. And I wrote letters to my mom, which she saved. And in rereading them, I never mention or refer to the Manson family.

Oh, wow. My involvement. You know, and this is to my mom. And this is like 20, 10-page letters. And so I never, I really, I really tucked it away. I really didn't, you know, and it wasn't until, you know, Paul Dosty and his cadaver dog Buster called me, like in 2008, 2009 to say, we're going to, my dog alerted to human remains in Death Valley,

and I've got permission to dig. and if we find bodies, you're going to be in the middle of it again. Wow. So why would that be? Well, because what he said was that it was the fact that apparently I had told Jack Gardner that there were bodies buried there. I don't remember telling Jack Gardner, I don't remember there being bodies there, but what I probably said was that when they asked me, do I think?

there's, you know, oh yeah, right, right, right, right. I probably said, well, there could, there could be. Sure. Because there were many, many people purported family members, but also old miners and, you know, drifters through the desert that came and went. And I don't know where they came from or where they went. They were just there one day and gone the next. Right.

So, you know, I think, anyway, so I had to tell my kids, so that was the first. kind of break and then of telling the truth and then my husband died and trying to refine myself I went to this high performance academy of personal development with brended bouchard I don't know if you know who he is but anyway he he took us through this exercise and I had this epiphany oh I know what now's the time I should write my stories I got I got to or at least start the process of of revealing who That's a big... What had happened to me.

That's a big wound to open. Yes. And so I got a life coach and she helped me write every day, you know, basically my memories. Right. And at the end of that, it's like, oh, this is, you know, how do I turn this into a book? You know, how do I share this? And so she said, well, get an agent. So I got an agent.

And it turned out that the agent's wife was the perfect person. and she wanted to write my story. And that's Deb Herman. She had been a trial attorney. She had a degree in journalism, specializing a true crime and memoirs. And she'd always been a 60s buff. And about a month before I contacted them, she was recovering from surgery. And Jeff Glynn's book had just come out.

And so she started reading that and just got totally enthralled and, you know, read that book. and then she read some other books, and she looked at, you know, various interviews and documentaries that were out already, and she said, wow, I've been wanting to write this story my whole life. And so we got together, and it was a perfect fit, and the timing was awesome, and it really helped heal me. It really did. I mean, and I owe a lot to Brendan Bouchard. I owe even more to God for getting me through and pointing me in the right direction,

and opening all the doors. And we'll leave it right there at that. Diane Lake, author of a member of the family, her story of Charles Manson and Life Inside His Cult. Diane, thank you very much. If you have an opportunity to delve into the book and get it, do so, it's available, you know, wherever books are sold. And you can find out a little bit more about her life and what it was like

and her breakthrough to come through to the end, which was a successful breakthrough. Thank you very much. Diane, I appreciate it. Thank you, Jeff.