Chewing the Fat with Jeff Fisher - Ep 233 | Mister Roger's Philosophy & History | Guest: Gavin Edwards

Episode Date: October 26, 2019

KINDNESS AND WONDER was also named one of USA TODAY’S must-read books of the Fall!  And today’s audiences will be reminded of Mr. Rogers’s uplifting persona in the upcoming TriStar Pictures film A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood (November 2019), where Tom Hanks stars as the real-life Fred Rogers.  KINDNESS AND WONDER is an exploration of Mister Roger’s philosophy, and an appreciation of his role in our world and our popular culture. Looking back at the history of the show and the creative visionary behind it, pop culture aficionado Gavin Edwards reminds us of the indelible lessons and insights that Mister Rogers conveyed—what it means to be a good person, to be open-hearted, to be thoughtful, to be curious, to be compassionate—and why they matter. Beautifully crafted, infused with Mister Rogers’ gentle spirit, and featuring dozens of interviews with people whose lives were touched by Fred Rogers—ranging from Rita Moreno to NFL Hall of Famer Lynn Swann—KINDNESS AND WONDER is heartfelt homage to this unforgettable cultural hero and role model, and the beautiful neighborhood he created.   Over three decades Fred Rogers offered a wholesome message of generosity and love that changed the landscape of television and shaped a generation of children. KINDNESS AND WONDER pays tribute to this cultural icon: the unique, gentle man who liked us just the way we were. ABOUT THE AUTHOR:  Gavin Edwards is the New York Times bestselling author of eleven books, including The Tao of Bill Murray, Last Night at the Viper Room, The World According to Tom Hanks, and the wildly successful ’Scuse Me While I Kiss This Guy series of misheard-lyrics collections. A longtime contributor at Rolling Stone, he has written for the New York Times, Wired, Billboard, Details, and GQ; and appeared on television programs including the Today show, Entertainment Tonight, and Jeopardy! He’s also moonlighted as a game designer, a photographer, and a demolition derby driver. Gavin lives in Charlotte, North Carolina. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So in today's world, it is come to my attention that it is a Mr. Rogers world, and we just live in it. And still today. I mean, the man has, the man passed away about 16 or 17 years ago now, and he's still leaving a mark on our society. And author Gavin Edwards joining us here on Two of the Bat here in the Breakroom has just written a new book called Kindness and Wonder, why Mr. Rogers matters now more than ever. You may know him from other works. A couple of my favorites, the towel of Bill Murray, and excuse me, while I kiss this guy,

one of my, I mean, one of the all-time favorite topics of any radio person in the world because everyone has misheard lyrics from the time that they were a little kid listening to music. But one of the things that it talks about, and Gavin, thank you for joining us. I appreciate it. Howdy, neighbor?

One of the things that it talked about, before we get to the Fred Rogers book, Mr. Rogers' book, it talked about you at one time being a demolition derby driver. That is true. I mean, it was a one shot. I'm not saying I went pro or anything. Did they even do those anymore? Seriously. Well, yeah, this was a racetrack out in Long Island.

And just at the end of the night, you know, they say, okay, you got your car, bring it out. You know, just, like, beat each other in the submission. Yes. I mean, I was forced to go to those as a kid, man, in Michigan. I remember those things forever. School buses, trailers. I mean, all, it was great. And I would be a fan if there was actually a place that actually happened where it was fun today.

I remember the safety talk at the end. The guy said, all right, you know, like when your car dies, stay in your car, unless your car's in fire, in which case you have my permission to get out. So good. So you didn't have any dreams of becoming pro, though? That's kind of dissing. No, but it was really like a blast to do once. So, Gavin, your latest book, Why Mr. Rogers Matters Now More Than Ever,

give us the main reason. Why does he matter now more than ever? You know, it feels like everywhere you look in this world, you know, like no matter what side of the political sense you're on, you know, it just feels like the world is like meaner and nastier, and people are sniping at each other. And, you know, sort of nobody is actually, like, I think, approaching each other with kindness. And, you know, like, we live in an era where just, it seems like it's cruel and it's rude.

And I think that, you know, like, Mr. Rogers, you know, cared about a lot of things, you know, like number one with kids. Yeah. You know, like his main thing in life was, you know, like listening to people, understanding them, making a connection, approaching them with kindness. And we can learn a lot from that right now. So in the book, you have a lot of, you have some interviews from people who talk about how Mr. Rogers, you know, affected their life and got them through their day. You know, Lynn Swan, Rita Moreno, just to name a couple. But did you ever, did you run into anyone that said, that damn Mr. Rogers? I can't take this guy.

If he tells me, it's a beautiful day of the neighborhood, one more. time, man. I don't think I ran into anybody who had an unkind word to say about him. And the thing is, I met a fair number of people who sort of met him off camera, and to a person down the line, they all said, he is the guy in real life. You thought he was on TV. They know, like, it was not an act. It was not like a persona he put on for the camera.

Like, that was just how we approached the world. I mean, he did a lot of number of things on the show that were, well, that are at least today perceived as, you know, cutting edge, you know, covering, you know, all kinds of controversial subjects, or at least they were considered controversial at the time. And, you know, he kind of, well, for lack of a better thought, dumbed it down to kids. And, you know, then even with the parents are watching with Mr. Rogers, they're like, oh, yeah, well, that makes sense, doesn't it? I mean, there was a lot of that on, I mean, that was all on purpose, right? Well, I mean, I don't think he thought of it as dumbing it down. He thought it very much as just sort of, but, you know, making it accessible.

In a language that, like, kids could understand that. And sometimes it was incredibly subtle and thoughtful. Like, one of the things that I never knew when I was, because why would I know when I was watching the show as a kid? You know, unlike Sesame Street, he wasn't about drilling, like, letters and numbers. You know, it was much more about, you know, sort of like, getting kids comfortable in the world, but he would still do, like, sort of the underpinnings of what they needed to know. And some of that was, hey, I'm going to explain, like, a heavy topic to you,

like, this is what the forces or this is what death is. Or I'm going to show you, like, sort of, like, we're going to go on a visit to the crayon factory, and you can see, like, how your crayons get made. But there's things like he would almost always, if he could, stage the action going from left to right. Didn't make a big deal about it, but just sort of the trolley goes left to right. He comes in the house and the door on the left. He walks to the right. And that was because for kids who hadn't learned to read yet,

he wanted to get them, like, in the habit of your eyes go left to right so that when you do learn to read, like, you're going to naturally follow that pattern. So he was not in the tank for China. He was for us. Yeah. So if kids in China or, you know, sort of like reading Hebrew, like it's not as helpful. Tough. Tough.

So one of my favorites actually is one of my favorite stories that I didn't even, I don't know that I would have thought about it even. I mean, in today's world, no way, was when they had such a controversy over the African-American kids swimming in the pools with the white kids where he had his African-American mailman come in on a hot day and cool down by putting their feet in the same pool together. It was just, holy cow. I mean, it makes, it's just like he's telling you, hey, dummy, it's okay. Yeah, yeah, Francois Clement, who played the police officer in the neighborhood.

The police officer, yeah, I said the mailman, but yeah. And, you know, he had this, like, little waiting pool. Yeah. And it was just sort of, like, it was very pointed of, like, I like to cool off. Sure was. Sort of, like, and then he's, like, toweling each other off on their feet. And, you know, sort of, Francois, who would happen to said it felt like, you know, sort of, like, almost like, Jesus with the disciples.

You're sort of like you've been chosen to like have this like, you know, very visible bond of friendship. And it was just very like moving to him on a personal level. But obviously it also, you know, sort of played as, you know, like this is an interracial neighborhood. This is not a big deal. It's not a big deal at all. I always thought that was, I always thought that was wonderful.

So your favorite, what's the favorite thing that you learned about Mr. Rogers in writing the book, kindness and wonder? that you didn't know, and you thought, wow, that's something. Well, I'll tell you first, sort of like a small thing along the way, which was I had no idea until I did this book that Mr. Rogers did not ever say, can you say that? Which everyone does, and they're Mr. Rogers' impressions, you know. Absolutely, yeah.

Yeah, that's tremendous. Can you say trolley? Can you say louder? You know, he just, you know, maybe once every 20 years. it would come out of his mouth. It was not the drumbeat. Everyone thinks it is when they do their impression. That's really funny.

Because you absolutely would swear up and doubt that that's him. Yeah, yeah. If you're doing it, like, if you're doing it, like, Mr. Rogers' impression, you've got to do that. Can you say that? Did you say that? For me, the thing was finding out that, you know, wherever he was, you know, like, he could be out at, like, a fancy dinner, like, in his honor. and if he saw like a kid standing in the corner or looking uncomfortable, he would drop what he was doing and go over to that kid and get down on one knee

and you know sort of like and relate to the kid. And there's a story of like a little girl, like at a party like that. She had just been adopted. She didn't speak English. She was from her Russian orphanage. And so he like took her over to the piano and like, you know, sort of like found a way to communicate on the piano with her. He was just, he wanted to make a connection. He wanted to make it okay for.

them. Was there ever a time in his life where he obviously at some point he knew what a difference he was making, right? I mean, in the beginning maybe not so much, he knew what he wanted to create and he fought to create this television show, this piece of art that he wanted to do.

But did you ever find a time in his life and maybe in some interviews with his wife or whatever that he thought, man, it just, it's not work and I can't do it. It's not, it's not reaching. Well, there's two times, I would say.

One is in the middle of the show, he just stopped for a couple years. You know, you decided, like, hey, I've done everything I need to do. And he started this, like, adult show called Old Friends, new friends. And it was on PBS, and he traveled around and, you know, sort of interviewed

you know, sort of like, Willie Stardle, for Pirates, and, like, and concert pianists. and so on. And it's kind of fascinating, but you could also see he's not using all his talents. He knows how to put together a TV show, but you're like, yeah.

You're also really good at singing songs. You're really good at puppets. Right. So we're going to work that in here. And after a couple years, he sort of figured out, oh, like, he just needed a break. He had done so many the, like, shows, but then to, like,

sort of come back and sort of be revived and say, like, this is, like, what my life's work is meant to be. Right. But, on his best said, He was not sure. He asked his wife, you know, sort of like, you know, sort of like, did I help people? Like, was I one of the go to was I one of the sheep?

And, you know, really, you know, sort of this. And it's ever uncertain about are they making a difference in the world? Like Mr. Rogers, who devoted his whole life to helping people and made it so he wasn't sure either. Everyone has these feelings. Sure. You don't know whether. And, you know, like, should be assured him, Fred, you're a good man. and you did everything you could.

But, you know, sort of, you know, even he, you know, like at the very end, wasn't sure. Did he enjoy the, and maybe, you know, you didn't ever find this out, but did he ever enjoy, you talked about, you know, how, what, the things that he never said, but it was all part of the parody of being Fred Rogers, Mr. Rogers. Did he ever enjoy any of that? Was he angry at that? Did he think, did he find it funny? Because, I mean, we have stories, you know, you laugh about, can you say that?

And the little things that he always, that he never. said that we obviously think he did, but there were also, you know, the stories of, you know, being Mr. Military, Mr. Tatted up all over and, you know, Mr. War Guy that just weren't true. Those just aren't true. And so Mr. Rogers was really easy to parody, right? You know, he's sort of like he's got this very distinctive cadence. You know, he sort of represents something. And it's funny when on, like, SCTV or whatever, you know, he's sort of like there's

My favorite, if you've never heard the Monty Python bit, it is hilarious. But anyway, that's, you know, he's breaking ahead over to a child. Or Johnny Carson used to like, you know, make fun of them all the time. Yeah, and they're like famously like Eddie Murphy. It's a lot. It's an easy target. It's easy fun. Yeah.

So, you know, like he, I think it was genuinely a little tough for him. Because what you have to know is when he was a kid growing up, he was very awkward, he was very shy, that he was overweight, he was asthmatic, he didn't have a lot of friends. And so, you know, which is, I think, part of why he was so good with kids because he remembered how hard it had been for him when he was a kid. Nobody was there for him. Yeah, he had a really childhood. And so, you know, he sort of tried to be a good sport about it, and people would say, no, like, we don't do this. We wouldn't do this if we didn't love we were coming from.

And there were a few times where he would actively put a stop to it. Like if he thought it was something that was like endangering children. Like he heard, like, there was a radio impression where somebody was pretending to be him and said, hey, kids, go get like your mom's hairspray in a cigarette. lighter make a flamethrower. And he's like, you know,

like the lawyers come out at that point. But otherwise, you know, like, he got the joke and, you know,

sort of really kind of delightfully when he was, went back to New York to be on David Letterman show. It was in the same building as

where Saturday Live was. And he had been years and years before, he'd been like a junior producer at NBC, so he knows his way around.

And, you know, he takes the elevator and he goes up to the S&L Studios. and like Eddie Murphy's there. And, you know, he says, like, oh, my God, it's the real Mr. Robinson. There's this lovely family of the two of them together.

And they both just sort of, like, although they came at it in very different ways, they took pleasure on each other. And it was nice to know that, like, they could, like, make a connection that way. No kidding. So, Gavin, the latest book, Kindness and Wonder, why Mr. Rogers matters now more than ever, is your latest book. And it's, you know, available for pre-order as we speak. and it's out everywhere at the end of the month, October 29 of 2019.

I appreciate it. Is there anything extra special in this book? And I apologize because I have not read this page for page yet. And I hate doing an interview without having read the book. But is there anything in here that really jumped? I mean, we've covered quite a bit of ground, but really jumped out at you that really took you by surprise. I don't think one weird thing you may enjoy, which was, I felt.

that there were, like, George Romero, who did the Night of Living Dead zombie movies. Yeah. Was also in Pittsburgh at the same time Mr. Rogers was doing Mr. Rogers' neighborhood, and they shared crew. They, like, almost, like, shared some of the same actors. George Romero, like, made educational films for picture, picture, like, on Mr. Rogers' neighborhood.

So these two very different, like, artists, you know, like made a connection. like they were neighbors and like they found each other. I love that, you know, sort of like these parallel lives, you know, like end up like finding fellowship together. It's some strange that you took, you know, that he questioned, that he questioned himself on, you know, did he make a difference? Because, you know, you do mention in the book how it was very evident that the early days were, they thought were, you know, maybe a little bit more fun because no one was an icon yet.

You know, it wasn't a show that everyone knew and was trying to make a difference. It was just Mr. Rogers and his crew trying to do good things for kids. Yeah, and I mean, and one of the stories that he kept on being surprised when he felt like they would have like a public event of like, hey, you know, sort of like, I'm going to appear in like Boston or L.A. And then like 5,000 families show up and he sort of like learns, oh, sort of like it's a very strange. media. You know, like, I'm alone in a studio, but I am actually reaching people. So that was really moving for him. So listen, you've got a, you've hit, you've hit a pretty good piece here with kindness and wonder.

Mr. Rogers, it is a Mr. Rogers world. I mean, your book's coming out, and then you have, then we have the big movie coming out next month, right, in November of 2019. So, I mean, it is, it is a Mr. Rogers world. Did you, you know what? If it could be just even a little more of a Mr. Rogers' world, you know, sort of like if people, you know, not all day, every day, but just now and then, they said, hey, like, how would Mr. Rogers handle this? And, like, I'd feel like I'd done my work. Gavin Edwards, kindness and wonder. Uh, pre-order now available everywhere at the end of the month. Thank you, man. I appreciate you coming on. It's very kind of. I was such a pleasure to speak with you. Take care, man.