Chewing the Fat with Jeff Fisher - Ep 45 | THE HISTORY OF THE FUTURE: Oculus, Facebook, and the Revolution That Swept Virtual Reality | Guest: Blake Harris

Episode Date: March 7, 2019

Jeffy looks into the future and does some headlines. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

And then there was one. Blockbuster video. One store left in America. One store left on planet Earth in Bend, Oregon. There's one picture of a guy taking a selfie of himself outside the blockbuster. And behind him, of course, is the blockbuster. But there's one customer walking into the store. And the customer is about 150 years old.

That tells you everything you need. to know. Welcome to Chewing the Fat. Congratulations to the man who survived his car being stuck with his dog, surviving on Taco Bell Hot Sauce, packs of sauce in his car. And we said on chewing the fat, when we originally did the story, what? Taco Bell hasn't come forward yet and given this guy any love? Well, they finally did.

they finally gave the guy free food for a year. Now, I want to say, you're welcome. We did that for you. I also want to say Taco Bell, only a year? Come on, man. I mean, I appreciate, I know it's a year. I got it, but, I mean, maybe, you know, a year and then a lifetime supply of taco sauce or something. Just something a little bit different.

But anyway, you're welcome, and congratulations to Taco Bell for actually pulling it out. Yesterday we talked to you about the guy that cared so much about Bernie Sanders that he had its testicles cut off and sold. There was also a story that I missed, and I apologize, but it was a bad day for man-unit parts yesterday. You had the millennial cutting off his testicles. Then you had the billionaire diamond trader in Paris. Um, Iude Ray Lenado.

I have no idea. E-H-U-D, A-R-Y-E, L-A-N-I-A-A-D-O. 65 years old, diamond trader, billionaire, worth of fortune, been in trouble with the law and a tax problems. Surprise, tax problems in France. Huh? That's a weird thing. Tax problems. billionaires with tax problems. That should be a new reality show. But he apparently was happy with everything about himself,

except that he thought he was always too short. And by too short, I mean in height and in man-unit size. So at 65, with all the money in the world, he decided to, hey, let's have surgery and enlarge my man-unit. What a good idea. No, it was not a good idea. And he died. So the next time you look down, you think to yourself, man, I'm going to make this bigger.

You might want to think again. I wouldn't do that. You're looking to make a little money? Here you go. A Thai farmer, a multi-millionaire farm owner from Thailand. He is tired of waiting for his 26-year-old daughter to get married. She's turning into an old maid at 26. So he posted a couple of pictures, and he's now making an offer.

Here you go. Marry my daughter. You get my money. I mean, I don't know about you, but this podcast is now being done on an airplane to Thailand. But you have to stay there, sadly. It's not like he's giving you marrying the daughter and you're bringing her back to the U.S. That's a little shame. But you got to stay there and farm on the big Thailand on the farm.

That might be why she's not married. I can't move. I have to stay with dad. That's a shame. See you later. Take care. So, because he says, look, I want, I just want a diligent and good person who loves his family, a hard worker. I don't need anybody.

You don't need any kind of school. I need somebody that will take care of the family and take care of my farm. Then I'll give it to them. Marry my daughter and it's all yours. He's worth millions. So maybe you go to Thailand. You marry the daughter. She's not that bad for $10 million.

And you hang out. He gives you the farm. Then you sell it, right? You sell it. You bring her back to the States or she can stay with dad. You later. Not giving you any ideas. Sorry.

Just letting you know. Under the heading of crime done wrong. This news from Florida. Oh, really? Crime done wrong in Florida? Yep. So two sisters are accused. and it appears that they are guilty of killing their 85-year-old father.

I did this a couple years ago. They got away with it. You kidding me? They got away with Linda Roberts, 61 and Marybeth Tomaselli, 63, arrested and charged first-degree murder for the 2015 death of their father. Amazing. So the crime took place when the two sisters were at their father's Palm Harbor, Florida, home. They called 911. Paramedics rushed in. He was declared dead. The doc said, yep, he's been really sick. He was really sick. I mean, he was close to dying anyway. Is that really murder then?

Just kidding. He was really sick, but apparently he wasn't going to die soon enough for the sisters. They wanted him gone. So they may, they tried to, they tried to overdose him didn't work. They tried to put a pillow over his head Didn't work So finally they just put a rag down his throat Jesus Calm down sisters The rag finally worked

How did they get caught Running their mouth With a boyfriend Both of them Seeing the same guy And he says Ooh I don't know if I want to see these two anymore

They're both telling me the same story About how they killed their dad I don't know how long I'm going to be a ragged We just have to bring in a recorder and record them talking about how they killed their dad and then go to the police. It worked. They should have just shut up. All right. So the other day, we were talking about the bridge player.

Yesterday. The other day, like I said. You make it sound like it was last week. It was yesterday. It was yesterday's show. The other day. Is yesterday another day? Yeah, but not that far away.

It was yesterday. Can you just say yesterday? I'm sorry. So in Europe, I can't remember his stupid name now. Gerg or Gerk, whatever his name was, got busted for a doping. And he is a bridge player. He's like the best bridge player in the world. So I got a Twitter account, a tweet, a tweet to Twitter.

I got a post from Toby McAvoy at McAvoy TM with a picture of something saying, I took this when I was playing bridge. Round them up. Right? I mean, I don't know if, apparently he's willing to say it out of the air.

Does he know that we don't protect them? Like, this is not, we're not lawyers. We play one on TV. This is not a safe zone. This is not a safe zone. Okay, we do not represent you,

but we're happy to throw you under the bus anytime you call. So Toby, welcome to chewing the fat. How in the world are you? I am doing well. How are you dead? Oh, I'm so good.

I have never seen time is better. Really, I know. I've seen times better. But that's good to hear. I want to let you know, I'm also a stent implant person with you. So you're kind of like st buddy over there. Oh, nice. How long have you, how long has you been in?

About seven years. Oh, so, and it held it stuck? There was no problems? No problem. Yeah, good. I hope I have the same kind you have. Because they're all, they're all still worried, you know, it's been a couple months. And they're all, for those of you wondering, I had a heart event.

A heart attack. It was a hard event. I call it a heart attack. That's what the doctor called it, but I'm calling it an event. And they put in a stent. And they're all concerned now. It's been two months. They're going to wait and make sure it takes.

What does it do? Keeps the vein open in your heart so that blood continues to pump through. And you don't have another heart event. Heart attack. You know, event. Hot tech. So anyway, good. And everything's going well with you.

You're doing great after that? Yes, I am. All right, great. So wait, are you saying, Toby, that you had a heart attack? I did not have a heart attack. I had kind of an annoyance. I was having a lot of discomfort by doing really stressful things like taking a 30-minute walk around the neighborhood. And things didn't feel good.

You all know that, Jeffrey, was yours because of a 30-minute walk around your neighborhood? Well, that's what, technically, if you wanted to do that, had I said something, I probably would have gone in and just got a step done as well. Okay, because you can't do your 30-minute walk. Because, I mean, I did let that discomfort that Toby mentions. I let that slide. Because you were doing a 30-minute walk around the block every day. Oh, you're doing more than 30. Oh, show off.

Yeah. The neighbors actually stopped by. Not long ago, I was wondering, hey, what happened? Because you walked in group. You walked in group was missing? Yeah. So, Toby, you are you a bridge player? I am a bridge player.

Do you still play? I do as much as I can. That after today. Yeah, thank you. Well, the good news is that that story about the big doping scandal is with the WBF, the world brief. Right, right, right. I belong to a different group, the ACBL, the American Contract Bridge, Lee. And we could dope, damn it.

That's right. This is America freedom. That's great. So what you gave me a picture of was the Brain Awake Red with Nitric Oxide Boost. You have no idea how I want to take this now. Well, and the main thing was that when I look at the back, there are two chemicals I got introduced to several years ago, oddly enough for a yoga teacher, and though I still don't practice yoga. But there's phosphatatolene and there's phosphatidatyl serene, which are both excellent for brain health. And I think it's phosphatital shearing that's in that item that I showed the picture of.

So do you still take it? I took it a day before a weekend of intense brief play, but I don't take it all the time. Okay. Did you feel any difference? Well, let me tell you, the first session I played after taking it, I did terribly. And I thought, well, this crab doesn't help. The rest of the weekend was better, and who knows whether that was the brain health or the getting my hiding handed to me on the first section. Right.

I wish I understood bridge better. My first wife was a great bridge player and was, you know, she would have been busted for doping. That's not true. Nothing was farther from the truth. My question about doping, people I know in the ACBL on the various tournaments that I attend and even the clubs that I attend, I think people take opponents out for cocktail hour before a match.

So is that reversed doping? Right. I mean, well, that's part of the game, Toby. Oh, you're bad. That's part of the game. Now, the reason that he got busted, though, is because, you know, he's part of the international athletic people, the communist one. Yeah.

Yeah, the one that doesn't let you dope. Yeah. Yeah. And so, it's surprising that the Bridge Federation, the World Bridge Federation, is under that. But because you wouldn't think that it would be for some reason. It's a card game. I know that it's more than a card game to you people, Toby, I got it. Or marketing or some other benefit of being under that umbrella.

So do you go to like tournaments around the country? Do they have bridge? I mean, I know they have bridge tournaments, but I mean, does your special doping bridge people? Do they have a special place they go to? Don't make them sound like they're outcast. What are you doing? You know, you may as well consider us outcast. Bridge players are.

They're a bunch of weird birds. You know that. Yeah. At the right young age of 4012, 52, I'm still one of the younger players. Right. In the clubs, they do refer to me as the young whippersna. I believe that because, you know, look, you know, that's funny. You say that, but, you know, you don't see a lot of, you don't hear a lot of young kids going.

What are you doing? Oh, I'm home playing bridge. Right. I mean, my kids would. Wait, you don't? No, you don't. You don't say that? No, my kids do not say, hey, we're playing.

bridge. I mean, they barely want to look at a deck of cards. Barely want to look at a deck of cards. And, I mean, I'm dying to play gin with my son. And he's like, I'm busy. Here in southern Nevada, there are several active bridge clubs. Oh, you're in southern Nevada. So you're just, all right.

So you're gambling. You're a bridge gambler. You're like the bridge hustler in Vegas. Because we don't win any money from it. What the hell kind of? I you know we earned we we paid for the opportunity to get abused at the bridge table all right so let me do really well all right till we get master points and master points can be collected and earned for honor titles but they can't be redeemed for anything all right so

let me ask you a question uh off the record all right yeah we're not on the air now of course not we're not on the air now uh do you guys have like you know underhand betting and stuff that you don't talk about? I don't. 100% true. I don't. Oh, well, you said 100% true, so I believe you. Yeah, it's possible I have bought someone a beverage by not playing well, I guess. It's also possible I bought some of the beverage who was sitting across the table

from me trying to be my partner as best they could, and I screwed up. They earn a beverage that way, too. I'm talking about, you know, a beverage is not, I don't consider that gambling. I'm talking about, you know, a roll of cash. I've never seen it. I don't participate in it. And it's all aboveboard.

Leave him alone. No wonder kids don't want to play bridge. Well, and so the bridge world and the poker world sometimes share some people, and there are a variety of questions. I'll get when I tell people I'm going to a tournament. Well, how much for you to win? Nothing. I pay my travel expenses, I pay my hotel expenses, I pay the carding fees, I pay for food

while I'm away, we don't earn money at this. Well, you're a bad American, just let you know. You let us down. I can understand why you want to play. I mean, it sounds fun. Let me tell you. It's tough to get started. I've been doing it since 2007, and it's kind of an addiction.

So even worse, it's an addiction I'm not getting paid for. Right. Hey, Toby, thank you very much, man. I appreciate it. Absolutely. Be well, both of you. Thank you. And thanks for, you know, listening to Chewing the Fat and subscribing.

I appreciate it. 20 stars, best podcast ever. Yeah, baby. Before we go to the break room, I want to say we got news yesterday on Alex Trebek. Sad news. 78 years old. He's got stage four pancreatic cancer. His video was impressive yesterday.

And if you haven't seen it, you can follow me on Twitter at Jeffie MRA, Facebook at Jeff Fisher Radio, Instagram, Jeff Fisher Radio, and watch the Alex Trebek video. But the video was great, and he talked about how he's going to fight it, and he talked about the odds, and he needed everyone's prayers, and he had to do it, because we don't say what's sad music for Alex. Is that what you're doing? Wow. No, he's not gone yet.

Don't make me start crying for Alex yet. Don't do it. Don't, because he's going to fight. He still got show. He's still got shows to do. And the success rate of fighting stage four pancreatic cancer is... Yeah. No, that was not funny.

We're praying for you, Alex. Despite the sad music. Okay. Okay. Enough. Hey, that was... That was not me. All right?

All right. Let's go to the break crew. Really thirsty. I'm out of Coke Zero, too, so I have to have to. actually drink water. What? What? I've got to hydrate more.

My skin's really dry. This season has been really hard on my skin. Oh, I will say, though, I do like ice cold water. And ice cold water is much better for you than room temperature water. What's that? Is that water cold? Yeah.

Theater of the mind. Yeah, I just let you. It doesn't look cold at all. Theater of the mind. I was like more than room temperature. Shut up. I mean in the car like for a week. It's only water our head left.

Why you just go with it? I'm not going to let to the audience. I can't tell on camera. Can't tell on camera. No, you can't? Yes, you can. No, you cannot. Let's do some headlines.

We're at the break room. All right, let's do some headlines. All right, some headlines in the hair of the break room. Michael Bloomberg said he's not going to run for president. Dry your eyes. I know. Go ahead. Hurry up.

Michael Bloomberg won't run for president. He was the same one for Michael Bloomberg and Alex Trebek. Wow. We've got to get some new sound effects. FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb, known for his responses to e-cigarettes and the opioid epidemic. He's resigning. See, why did he do that earlier? Papa John's founder, John Shatner, leaving the company's board of directors.

That was not him. It was John Shetner. That was the orangutan, whatever the down. orangutan's name was. A dollar tree. The family dollar problem closing 390 family dollar stores. Right? I mean, that's a lot of stores for them.

Now they've got stores, you know, they've got, I probably, I don't know how many stores Dollar General has. Family Dollar Tree. I don't know how many stores they have. Look that, real quick, look that up before you look for another boogie sound effect. Let's look up the Dollar Tree stores. And let's see how many stores. I bet you they have.

I think it will. one time. See, there's difference. There's the family, there's family dollar, there's dollar general, and there's the dollar tree. This is the dollar tree. Because dollar general, I think, has like 2,000 stores or something. They got a lot. They're a bunch.

But dollar tree probably has what? $1,400? $14,800. $14,000? $14,000. $4,000 stores throughout the 48 states and Canada. Dollar tree. 14,000 stores.

Wow So 3009 Nothing I mean You could throw the merchandise From those stores And the other 14,000 sold Wow

We're at the wrong business Dollar tree 14,000 stores I can't believe that I think that's a lie That's fake news I don't believe I've ever seen 14,000 dollar trees man

Come on That's a lot of freaking stores Okay Do you say so Mario Batelli, the celebrity chef, surrendered his ownership in the stakes of his restaurants since he's been accused of sexual assault and harassment two years ago. Goodbye.

It's the 2017, man. It got caught up in the Me Too movement and done. History. Hello. Goodbye. I know. I know. News yesterday, Amazon's closing all 87 of his pop-up electronics.

in the U.S. starting next month. They're just, look, they, and the brick and mortar is done. They don't even, it's, I'm sure, look, Jeff's got to have alimony payments to make here in a little bit. As soon as that divorce gets finalized, there's going to be some alimony payments to make.

And these brick and mortar stores, that just costed way too much money. Red. Let's get rid of them. We need some cash. I'm rethinking the Bezos divorce now. Oh, here we go. Okay.

You're my bowler. I'm rethinking that De Bezos is divorced now. No, not even close. I'm thinking they don't get divorced. I'm thinking now they're just split up and they don't get divorced. And they both say we still love each other, but we're struggling and we're trying to work it out. And they don't get divorced, which means that all the money stays. Everything is stay.

Everything is status quo. Everybody just, everybody's done. I think that's going to happen. And then she's found dead. Abercrombie and Fitch Penciling in a better than expected annual sales thanks to broad store remodeling efforts Yeah, well, I mean, who shops at Abercrombie and Fitch?

Nobody, right? I mean, nobody that... I'm not the 16-year-old chick. Wait, what? I know. Are you sure? There's no sound effect for that. I'm not the 16-year-old chick.

I don't even get an orangutanic for that. I'm a lobby girl in a very world. What do you want out of me? I mean, you ever been into the Abercrombie and Fitch stores? I mean, of course you go in, right? I mean, it's been a long time I've been in an actual mall anyway. Do they still have those? Yeah, they do still have them.

I still see them. I can see the sign that says mall. And as I drive by. But the thing is, is if I type in mall.com, type that in, see what happens. Mall.com. Because if I type in mall.com, it doesn't deliver to my house like Amazon.com does. Maybe they do Maybe I should start going to mall.com

It's probably a porn site Mall.com turns to Gouda.com Ooh, really? That's dumb. And don't ask them what Gouda is because this is all like weird letters and

yes, I'm probably they're probably saying I'm racist because this is some weird letters and look at it. Well, we have to edit this out. We can't let that stand. That is. I'm glad

the man of Puerto Rican descent is saying and I'll tell you that that's how crazy is that I probably cursed out someone in Djibouti by saying Gouda.com Oh, but don't be messing with Djibouti. Dijibouti is our motherland. We've got listeners in Djibouti.

I love Digibouti. Okay, so we also have the war of Steven Spielberg and Netflix. I don't know if we talked about it at all. I thought about this podcast, but it really ticks me off. and, you know, Spielberg is looking back saying that he doesn't want Netflix movies to be up for Oscars, unless they're at the theaters longer. Who said this? Stephen Spielberg.

And who is this guy? Who is Steven Spielberg? Yeah, who the hell does he think he is? Well, only probably, you know, the worldest, renownedest, director, producer ever. He gets to make his decisions. He's speaking on behalf of the Academy. Yeah. Absolutely he's speaking on behalf of the Academy.

The Academy is not going to badmouth Spielberg. Holy crap, no way. I don't know who this guy is, but I don't like it. Oh my gosh. I want you right now look up Steven Spielberg. Let's look up Steven Spielberg movies. All right. His IMDB page, Steven Spielberg Movies.

And go down the list. I don't want to know about directing, you know, just just go down the list. Steven Spielberg Movies and go down the list. I'll go Stephen Spielberg movies. Okay. Go down the list. Ready Player 1.

Jaws, E.T., Jurassic Park, Shindris List, Savi Prime Ryan, Duo, Closing. You don't have to read anymore. Want to ask me again who he is? Yeah, so did he play in this movie? Oh, my God. Stop talking. He's a director.

He made him. Oh, he made him. Oh, that's pretty cool. He got a pretty good list. You think? I'm sorry. I'm sorry, chewing audience. I mean, I'm sorry.

but he's pissed. See, he's pissed at he's not, he's still living in the past. And he doesn't want Netflix and the streaming audience to be able to be up for Oscars and be Academy. He's trying to badmouth the streaming audience and the streamers. He's just jealous. I think so too. That's just jealousy. He's just pissed at Amazon or Netflix hasn't come to him and giving him a bunch of money.

I'm sorry, but your time is gone. I agree 100% with that thought, 100%. You didn't do that. And I love Netflix response. Oh, yes. Okay, here we go. All right. This is Netflix response on Twitter.

How many beeps do I need? What do you mean? Because if I'm Netflix, I'm cursing him out. Oh, no, they did. But maybe they did a bit. Oh, look, they did. Oh, look, this is a new one that just came up. Oh, a brand new one.

They did, yeah. Just for chewing the fat. Yeah. We love cinema, you mother. Beep. Here are some things we also love you. Beep. Access for people who can't always afford or live in towns without theaters, you

Beep! Letting everyone everywhere enjoy releases at the same time, you... Beep! Giving filmmakers more ways to share art, you stupid. These things are not mutually exclusive, Steven Berg. The History of the Future. Oculus, Facebook, and the Revolution that swept virtual reality is the title of the book. by Blake J. Harris. Now, I'm sure you've heard of Blake J. Harris,

a bestselling author of Console Wars, Sega, Nintendo, and the battle that defined a generation. You may have heard him on several podcasts around the country from time to time. And now you can say, hey, I've heard him on chewing the fat. Blake joins us today. How are you, sir? Thanks for coming on. I am very good. Thank you for having me on. Absolutely. Look, your latest work, the history of the future, you started this and it took you what three and a half four years to uh to do the do the background on this i mean that's a lot of time yeah it took me three and a half years about probably about four years

total but three and a half years doing interviews and hardcore research and and as as as as you know the story turned out absolutely not at all like i had expected which is a big part of why it took so long i mean coming off of console wars which was a story about the generation defining battle between Sega and Nintendo of the 90s, I figured that this would be another video game generation-defining story. Right. And the first half of the book is. Yeah, it is.

It swirms into faith book and politics and discrimination and all sorts of crazy nonsense that I needed to follow through to the end to finish the book. Right. I mean, it's amazing. The first half of the book, I mean, we can get started on that. But, I mean, the first half of the book with Palmer Lucky was fascinating how he got started, how he evolved himself into the virtual reality world. and, you know, became this icon of a virtual reality.

And then, you know, we're coming up, now we're coming up this month, right, on the five-year anniversary of Facebook buying Oculus. And, I mean, we all live through that saying, wow, that's, you know, good for him. Yeah, the short version for any listeners who don't know, Palmer Lucky, back in 2012, he was a 19-year-old kid living in Long Beach, California.

working out of a trailer that he lived in, obsessed with virtual reality. And he was building virtual reality headsets in there. I remember he had gutted out this trailer. And I once said, hey, the way you're describing that sounds a lot like Walter White's meth fan on Breaking Bad. And he said, yeah, that's pretty much exactly what it was. Yeah, it was just like it was. But that was his drug of choice. And he soon brought that to the world.

And like you said, like less than two years after starting Oculus, he ended up selling it to Facebook for nearly $3 billion. and then it's coming up on the five-year anniversary, and lo and behold, Palmer is not at the company. He was fired almost two years ago for reasons that have nothing to do with virtual reality. Right. It's fascinating how the book took the turn to that, too, which you wouldn't expect. If you stopped it there and asked anyone who wasn't already familiar with the story, and it would say, you know, where do we go from here?

Well, my gosh, the guy is already a billionaire. He's developed that. he's working for Facebook. He's going to be developing other things or making the virtual reality world even better. I mean, if you haven't seen surrogates with Bruce Willis, I mean, we're headed there. No, you're totally right. That was part of, I mean, it's an unfortunate story, obviously. I got to know Palmer very well over the years as well as the other main characters

I interviewed a lot. And so I wasn't happy to see it end that way for him. But in terms of, you know, telling the story, I think it was interesting and will be productive to get into the politics of Facebook that way, you know, because it's not a book that's flat out about conservative politics of Facebook or political discrimination or stuff that, you know, might turn off a lot of readers, but it's people, you know, you start off with this great American dream in the 21st century story, and then it swerms into the stuff that maybe that I didn't plan on facing, that I was not necessarily interested in facing and that probably a lot of readers aren't, so, like, interested in diving into, but because you go through Palmer's story and you get to know him, and love him and hate him throughout it. You know, it makes for an interesting way into that world. Sure does. And it's for those that don't know, I mean, Palmer got into trouble because he thought that it would be great or interesting that if Donald Trump were to win the presidency.

And that's it. You know, I mean, he was just, he thought, hey, I think that's going to be, you know, that would be fascinating if this happened. And then the world spun out of control for him. Yeah, and, and, you know, full disclaimer here, I'm a lifelong liberal. I very much did not vote for Trump or was sorry disappointed when he won. Hugh bastard. Yeah, but, you know, I'm not a total bastard because I do believe that everyone has the right to vote for whoever they want, which is apparently not a common thing these days. No, no, it is not a common thing. It is far from common, but I'm just messing with you.

Go ahead. Yeah, no, no, no. It's all, I think that this kind of, rival political rivalry is the fun stuff. This is what it should be. People joking around with each other because we're all in this together. It's supposed to be. Being all in this together, watching Palmer go through this, I thought it was horrifying, and I thought it was really important to get the story out there because maybe it's all, it's just like, you know, I'm a Jew and I have this mentality of, you know, first they come

for someone else and eventually they come for me. You know, first you're going to discriminate against conservatives, and eventually I'll have an opinion that's unpopular with them and it'll be problematic. Yes, big time. So where are we, we've got, we've got Palmer, we'll go back to maybe the beginning before we got in, before the Trump year or years. But, you know, he struggled to create this virtual reality

because it's a world that we all, I think, want to be a part of. I don't know how much we all want to be a part of, but it's such a cool world to be in. that it's difficult not to want to be part of it somehow. And, you know, for them to go through that struggle of creating Oculus and creating this virtual reality that we all hoped would maybe be better than it is, but it certainly is pretty good right now. You know, it was, it was fascinating to see the struggles that they went through

that you wouldn't necessarily think that they would go through. I mean, it's just these kids building stuff in a trailer. It's fascinating. Right. I mean, because, you know, what's very interesting about virtual reality as a product and as sort of a business case study, how do you get people to buy this proposition, is that it's unlike so many other products because, you know, most innovations replace something that we already have.

So, you know, a car replaces a horse, and you could say, well, here is why it's better than a horse or cheaper or more expensive or you can compare it. Or, you know, a smartphone replaces your landline or it replaces your cell phone. You know, there's all these other things that replaces. The virtual reality is really very different than that because, you know, the premise of it is that you put on a headset and you feel like you're somewhere else. And the computer, you know, you're looking at a computer-generated world. And maybe that could be a video game. Maybe that could be me being in studio with you right now while I'm in New York.

But instantly you're somewhere else. And so that's tough. And it's going to take a long time to get to a place where it's a profitable venture. But, you know, Facebook, one of the benefits of being acquired by Facebook was that Facebook was willing to make, you know, a long-term investment in this technology, even if it was going to year after year, not resulted in a profit. Blake J. Harris, the author of The History of the Futures, who we're talking to. Blake, I do have a question. When you talked about the kind of virtual reality, are we talking about the movie? kind of like a ready player one something like that when you talk about like hmm yeah yeah yeah well in fact player one was a big inspiration for me uh ernest klein the author of that wrote the uh

forward to my book and i would say that without that book i not only would i not have written mine but i think a lot of the people who i interviewed would not have decided to risk their careers on virtual reality you know a ready player wanted such a great job of showing how this could be done in a feasible way that that was science fiction but it didn't feel like you know distant science fiction. Right. Right. Of course. I mean, that's what, and of course, that's what makes it so fascinating. Right. I mean, that's

why we all, you know, we all got the headsets, and we all wanted to ride the roller coaster in VR, and we all wanted to walk off the cliff and feel like we're falling off the top of a building. I mean, that's all part of the deal. It was fun. Absolutely. And for your point,

you know, we're still very early on in this VR revolution, and whether we get to where we're, you know, to something like Ready Player 1, the Oasis, it remains to be seen. It's going to take a lot more investment. But if that investment is there, we're, you know, it's only a matter of time. And then, of course, as with every technology, there's going to be good and bad. Some people will see this as escape.

Some people will see this as a chance to, you know, do anything and everything with no scarcity. So, you know, it'll be an exciting future nonetheless. And it certainly seemed like we would be farther along than we are five years ago. when Facebook bought Oculus. And then it's funny how life gets in the way of creation. And that's when the book takes a turn, right? I mean, you're looking for this great future

because the great and almighty Facebook decided that they were going to spend all this money. And we thought, okay, well, then here we go. But no, not really. Right. And, you know, aside from the fact that I think this is incredibly important to all of us as Facebook, you know, increases their user number over $2 billion. So given Facebook's enormous role in our culture, I think, looking into how they operate and especially instances of discrimination are important to all of us. But just, you know, sort of taking a step back conceptually, the reason that Facebook purchased Oculus for such a large sum of money was because Facebook wanted to own virtual reality.

they wanted to own the Metaverse, as it were, or the Oasis from Ready Player 1. And that's understandable. But I think we should also be, you know, considering, okay, if they want to own virtual reality, how are they actually reacting? How are they actually acting in actual reality? You know, how are they governing their employees? How are they going to govern users? So, you know, it seems incredibly relevant in that way, even though maybe it seems, you know, I guess what I'm saying is that what happened with Palmer was really sad and horrifying to me. But it also is not just about Palmer.

It's like a proxy for a lot of issues that are going on nowadays with social media. In general. Yeah. Well, look, in you writing this book and given the access that you had, I mean, you were, you know, in the heart of the beast, so to say, and got to see what actually made the heart pump. And some of that wasn't pretty. Absolutely not. And, you know, I think that if what had happened with Palmer, it's just to add a little more clarity to what you mentioned earlier. So Palmer, it's interesting because, you know, I think one of the first words that come to mind when you talk about Palmer Lucky is visionary.

And I think that's a perfectly correct word to use, but it's not even just with virtual reality that when he first said he was interested in Donald Trump running for president. That was 2011. So I remember thinking like, wow, you really were ahead of the curve on this too. Right. So Palmer had been a Trump supporter for years. Then in April of 2016, so five or, I guess, like seven months before the election, Palmer had attended the Trump rally in Costa Mesa. There was an NBC crew that was shooting video there, and he appeared on it with no problem. Then in the intervening months, Peter Thiel was, quote, unquote, outed as a Trump supporter, and Peter Thiel's on the Facebook board.

And there was a lot of outrage on campus to try to get him fired. Yes, there was. sort of realized like, wow, I should probably not be very open. I thought of my support. Palmer made a little bit less than $10,000 donation to a political organization called Nimble America, whose goal was to put up billboards across the country in support of, or I guess, against Hillary. Against Hillary.

Yeah, it was more against Hillary, right? But, I mean, it was perceived as Fort Trump. Exactly. And the only one that they ever ended up putting up was a cartoonish. image of her face and it had the words too big to jail on it. So, you know, pretty typical, you know, there wasn't anything unsafery about that, I would say. And I'd say that as someone who was supporting Hillary. It's a pretty fair game. But the internet freaked out and people assume that this, I mean, a large part because of the news that covered it did such a bad job. They

essentially reported that every bad internet meme that you've seen over the past election season was Palmer lucky was somehow responsible for that. And then, you know, Palmer sought to issue a public statement or press release of some kind explaining what was true and what was not. And he was not allowed to public. That never happened, right? It did happen than following day, but not the one that he wrote, correct. The statement that he wrote, you know, claiming, you know, explaining what had happened with humble America and that he was supporting Trump and why he was supporting Trump and why he thought Trump could make. America Great again. That was not allowed to be published because it was unacceptable for an

executive of Facebook to support Trump, which sounds kind of crazy. It does, but we know that. We certainly know that to be true now. I know. Well, at the time, I was like, all right, well, but really, maybe people are just misinterpreting actions. But no, because in the next day, Mark Zuckerberg personally drafted a statement for Palmer that Palmer needed to post if he wanted to keep his job. And that statement said that he was voting for Gary Johnson. Johnson. So that ended up going up. Palmer was basically exiled the next six months. He wasn't allowed to talk to his colleagues. He wasn't allowed to use social media. And then he ended up getting fired anyway. Did they ever let him back in to the fold at all? That's a good question. So they did let him back into the office for one day in December. And on that day, he wrote a statement to his colleagues. Still not really allowed to explain what happened. But kind of apologizing a little bit more sincerely than robot Mark Zuckerberg.

Right, right. And notably in that message, he said that he planned on being at Oculus for the next 50 years. So flash forward a year or so later to when Facebook is lying to me about what happened here, and they're telling me, oh, no, it was Palmer's choice to leave? And I'm saying to them, yeah, but I got a copy of this statement from December 4th, and he says, he's going to be here for the next 50 years. You know, I don't think it's possibly changed his mind within a couple of months. months, and then they would say something, you know, like, hmm, let's get back to you, let's call

the other than. Football coaches say that all the time. Move on. It's true. But it's because the football coaches get a better offer, and Palmer didn't have a better offer. That's a good point. Byrd was not better. I mean, you know, if Alabama was calling and I could see why Palmer might have left the Miami

dolphins. Right. It wasn't a safe situation. No, it was not. That's a heck of a point. Blake, Jay Harris, author of the history of the future. So, fascinating read. Really fascinating about the entire Oculus, Facebook, and the whole virtual reality revolution.

Where are we at now in the virtual reality revolution? Where are we at? In your eyes. In my eyes, I mean, I guess it's on the proverbial hype cycle, everyone seems to agree that we're in the trough of disillusion bits. Wow. I guess is what it would be called if we're going to be our word to succeed again. Otherwise, it would just be called the failure right now. But I still do believe in it because, you know, going back to what I said earlier

about how historically most new products are a replacement or an improvement over previous ones, like a car to a horse and, you know, television to radio. The most similar... Wait a minute. Stop for a second. I just a second. I just want to stop you there. Television didn't kill radio.

All right. I know that's a common misconception, Blake, but that could be your... next project. Television didn't kill radio. The myth. I'll just say, the way things are positioned. Because I'm sure that people were still buying horses even after cars. Yeah, that's a good problem. That's a good point, too. Never mind.

But from a sales perspective. But regardless you know, the most common technological revolution would be the PC revolution, you know, which sort of happened in the late 70s, most notably with Apple. And Apple was an enormous, you know,

rags to rich a success story, not unlike Oculus in the late 70s. But as much as we fondly remember Apple introducing computers to the average person back then, that's not really what happened. What happened, you know, my family didn't own a computer until 1995. So it took 15 years after that. Yeah. You know, what actually happened more, of course, it was now available to individuals who

were interested, hardcore, you know, hackers and homebrew computer makers and enthusiasts. But really where PCs thrive. in the 80s was in the enterprise in the business space. It was something that businesses used. And I think that's sort of the direction that we're headed more so, whether it's with, you know, Walmart recently I think purchased 5,000 headsets to train

employees or the United Nations is using headsets to train emissaries going to various places or to use for soliciting donations with documentary films about various regions. And so I think that the enterprise space is where you're going to actually

see some sort of like ROI that makes sense. to keep investing in VR, and then after enough time, hopefully, I say, as a VR lover myself, that hopefully it will make a crossover to more of a mainstream audience. It's fascinating. We can see it working. I mean, we see with many games now we're providing concerts and shows inside the game itself. Maybe we do that, you know, in the VR world as well. And I love the idea of the businesses training. I mean, that opens their training up through lessen travel costs for sure for businesses. But, you know, that's just a, another way to brighten the future of it for sure.

What's next for you? I mean, this project took you, you know, four years, and you probably had it in your head for a year before that. So have you found your next project, or you're just being lazy? Never. Never be lazy. No, I have, but it's inherently seemingly lazy. Actually, I've been working on this one for a while, and my manager called and said,

hey, Blake, instead of doing hundreds and hundreds of interviews and hustling back and forth between San Francisco and L.A. and New York, how would you like to just go to Tahiti and write a book there? And I thought that sounds pretty interesting. Oh, no, twist my arm. Yeah, exactly. So that led me to a story about the first three Americans to open a hotel in Tahiti back in the 1960s and, you know, their efforts to build a Tahitian hotel empire and kind of just make Tahiti

this exotic place that people could go to. Because back in the early 60s, there was no airport there that was kind of no way to get to Tahiti. It was like this almost mythical place and these guys opened this hotel and ended up having 18 kids with 10 different women and living in an interesting life. And so I've been speaking

with them for the past few years and looking forward to running that story. Well, that sounds great. Fascinating business one. Yeah, that sounds great. I'm looking forward to it. Blake J. Harris, thank you. Your new book, History of the Future, the Oculus Facebook and the Revolution that swept virtual reality. Thank you for joining

us on Chewing the Fat. It's good to talk to you, and I look forward to talking to you again. Thanks so much for having me on. It was great. See you. Before we wrap it up today, I wanted to thank you for subscribing and rating and reviewing and listening to this podcast, chewing the fat with yours, truly Jeff Fisher. But if you aren't a subscriber, why? You know what, no, I don't want them. What do you mean? If I have to beg these people to subscribe to this podcast, we want them.

All right, you're done. Of course we want them. Don't make me read the Spielberg tweet again. I don't want to beep you out. Of course we want them. That's, look, baby, come here. Of course we want you. Don't listen to him. You know we love you.

We'll just love you more if you subscribe and then rate and review and then share. That's it. We will especially love you a lot more if you just subscribe. The rest of it's just extra. The rest of it's just gravy on top of the potatoes. I'm just a plile of potatoes now to you? Yes, that's what you are to me, baby.

me, a pile of potatoes. But I love potatoes, just like I love you. So just subscribe to chewing the fat. Wherever free podcasts are sold. Okay? And like I've always

said on this podcast, just when you think, Mother Nature actually takes care of things. It's amazing thing. Animals go extinct. And new animals come on. Fish go extinct. New fish are found. A leopard.

Thought to be extinct. spotted in Taiwan for the first time in over 30 years. What? You mean climate change didn't kill them? Hello! It's winter! Well, no, it's not really winter in Taiwan. Well, I don't know if it's winter in Taiwan.

I don't look at the jet stream. I don't know what kind of weather they're getting in Taiwan. I love with the fact that they thought these lepers were extinct. And then, oh, look, oh, look there. Oh, my gosh, is that one of the leopards that we've already thought was extinct? Damn, and I hate it out here. in the Taiwan jungle. Looking for leopards.

I just love the fact that we have more animals. That's what the earth does. Can we just let nature be nature? Thank you. Thank you. And when man takes over and we've cut down some trees and some of the animals move off to the side and we lose some, then we gain some.

And the next thing you know, Oh my gosh I thought those animals were dead Because we cut down some lumber No Oh Oh okay good Just amazing

So because of the extensive logging That ate away habitat For the Formosan clouded leopard They're extinct Except They're not We also learned yesterday Jeffrey Do you remember this?

You know even since my past parents had me, we've destroyed 60% of life on this planet, what would that be like for my child's marriage? Will there be 10% there? This made me cry yesterday, stop. To do with being, you know, in nature of what a life enthusiast like I am. Don't make me cry over this. We've lost so many, so many animals. But some of them now are coming back. So we really haven't lost them, have we? Have we?