Chewing the Fat with Jeff Fisher - Ep 63 | Should You Vaccinate? & Liberty Talk with Kibbe | Guest: Matt Kibbe & Dr. Elizabeth Thomas

Episode Date: March 30, 2019

Jeffy brings you a special episode that talks about freedom and liberty. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to it. Happy Saturday on chewing the fat. Thank you so much for coming along for the ride today. Don't forget, look, I know you're listening on Saturday, and this is just a, I try to post a Saturday podcast just to help you through. Help you through a little bit. Help you through or help yourself. Help you through a little bit.

Like, for instance, today we're going to talk to a local DFW doc, Dr. Elizabeth Thomas, about vaccinations. what seems to be going on around the country and what's happening through kids and some of the some of the stories we've heard about it. And then we also are going to talk to Matt Kibby, who was in town all week wandering around here, looking for places to sit. And I finally said, come on and sit down. Matt, we'll talk for a little while.

Jeez, you know, couldn't get rid of the guy this week. And so Willa, what's his name of his podcast again? Kvian Liberty. Yeah, yeah. We had to talk about that. And we talked about his other, Free the People. or something. Yeah, whatever he's got going on.

It's good to see him wandering around the building and looking for a place to sound. It's funny because when you saw him, he was just like a little lost kid. It's like, have you seen my mommy? Apparently he thought mom was in here that day because I had to talk to him for, I don't know how long we talked,

but he came in and sat down. I'm like, oh, well, you're here. Let's just talk, Matt. Go ahead. He does have a nice voice. I love his voice. All right. So for, I don't know,

it seems like forever. We've talked about vaccinations and if they're good, if they're bad. The anti-vax people are everywhere. People want to be able to vaccinate their children. People want to say, I have the right not to vaccinate my children. And I'm kind of torn because I want to be able to do what I want with my kids. They're my kids. My kids, my rules.

Thank you. Thank you. My kids, my rules. However, it does kind of lead down a strange path. you start talking about illnesses and health. And so Governor Bevan from Kentucky, and you're familiar if you've listened to this network a few times. We've talked to Matt Bevin a few times on this network.

However, we've not talked to him about this particular subject. And he... What you have the Matt Bevin on? Matt Bevan is here? No, Matt Bevin is not here. He didn't show up. He didn't show up. Maybe he did.

Maybe he's wandering around the building. Maybe you should go check. But he was interviewed on a radio station not long ago. and talked about taking his children to another household that had the chicken box. And, you know, back in the day, I can remember, you know, not so much when I was a kid, but when my parents were kids, they used to do that, right? Someone in the neighborhood would get sick, would have the mumps, would have the measles, would have the chickenpox, and you'd take your kids over there so that they would contract the illness

and get it and be done with it and move on. And nobody thought anything of it. And this interview is kind of blown out of proportion, I think, because they're thinking, oh, my gosh, what is he doing? And there's always examples of children that were, oh, we gave them the chicken pox. And then they got extra sick and either the worst possible thing happened, they passed away or they got really sick and almost passed away. So Dr. Elizabeth Thomas, who is a pediatrician here in the DFW area, is here to set me straight on vaccinations.

And I'm positive she's going to tell me, yeah, it's your kids, your rules, but health is first. And we want you to get all your kids vaccinated and feel good. Right, Doc? Well, first of all, good afternoon. And thank you so much for inviting me to your show today, Jeff. It's really an absolute pleasure to be here. No, you haven't been here long enough yet, so you will see if that finishes up. So the topic of vaccines has been one of great importance, particularly with this story that

you just mentioned and also with the recent measles outbreak. Here in the United States, there have been 268 cases so far in the U.S., and two in Collin County, which is not too far from us. I thought we had that cured. Not yet, unfortunately, because we've had a few kids and few families who have decided not to vaccinate. And so that's the problem. Basically what we're talking about today, that can be a problem.

So I am a pediatrician, but I'm also a parent. And when it comes to vaccines, on one hand, you do have the scientific evidence that vaccines have proven to decrease, not only disease, but hospitalizations and deaths. But on the other hand, you do hear those stories. You do hear those stories of parents that are scared of this vaccine issue. So you have conflicting stories. And so what do you do? So as a parent, I can't ignore those stories, but as a pediatrician, when I see mounting

evidence that vaccines is scientifically proven and has helped to decrease disease and hospitalizations and death, then I feel that it is safe to get those kids vaccinated. So what is the, what is the, you know, there's always the stories of the people who didn't get vaccinated and either get sick and, you know, end up really, really sick, but there's also the stories of the people who got vaccinated. I mean, there's always going to be exceptions to every rule, right? That's exactly right. And in this particular case where the kids were exposed to the disease, they got immunity naturally.

So it's called naturally acquired immunity. Whereas with the vaccine, you're exposed to the virus, but you're also building antibodies not naturally, but passively. And so in this particular situation, you can have where the governor decided to do it naturally. His kids, they did get it naturally. And fortunately, we're fine. but there are situations where even a healthy child can have complications from getting it naturally. So we're talking about just healthy children. But what about the child that has is post-transplant or waiting on the list to get a transplant

or has congenital heart disease? Okay. I understand. But those parents are going to be the ones that are going to want their children vaccinated and taken care of the best they can be anyway, right? I mean, that's true. But what if you have a child that got the disease and was next to that child? that could not get vaccinated with the live vaccine.

Oh, you have to break the crap bottom of them right then. So that's a problem. That's a problem. So a lot of times these vaccines are weakened viruses, but sometimes they're live. So for kids that are immune compromised, they can't get live vaccines. So they are compromised. They can't get those vaccines. So, for example, the measles mumps rebella virus is a live vaccine.

So if you have a child that has not received that vaccine, gets the measles, and then it is exposed to a child that is post-transplant, that is immune-competal. compromise, then you have an issue where you don't have the whole community immunized and that can spread disease in a community. And that's where we get into not long ago where the judge wasn't going to allow the children who weren't vaccinated back into the school. That's exactly right. And it was really torn between the health of those children and the health of others. Right. So, I mean, the days of taking your kids to, you know, do the Matt Bevin way and get, okay, these kids are sick.

we're going to take you over there and you're going to get sick. That kind of went away when we started creating all the children in the schools getting vaccinated. It seems to me, I remember the schools, you know, getting the okay from the parents and rowing everybody up in the gymnasiums and you'd have, you know, nursed ratchet and the dock there with the giant needles and they stick you a couple times. Next. Right.

And you're moving on, right? So, I mean, obviously, I guess we don't do that anymore. Right. We just don't. And now what it is is the schools want evidence that the child has either gotten the disease like chickenpox or has gotten immunized. And so the idea is as a pediatrician and as a school system, you basically want to ensure the health of everybody, not just one or two people, but you have the responsibility that everyone is safe. And that means if your child is not immunized and they're exposed to someone that has the disease, then you're running that risk of your child getting sick. And the reality is that a lot of these are life-threatening and can cause death.

And at the end of the day, we want to make sure we're preventing that. But yes, you're right. Now we don't line up kids in the school gym for a big needle. But the schools are trying to ensure that they're keeping everyone safe. Should we go back to that? Do you want it mandated? I don't. I mean, it really isn't it mandated, right?

They offered it and said the parents had to sign off on it. We're offering it. It's not mandated, but your kid will never come to the school again. Now, certain parents can sign waivers for religious reasons or for moral, ethical reasons. But at the end of the day, we want to make sure that everyone's safe. So in terms of being mandated as a pediatrician, what I do is I explain to the parent, I want to make sure that they're having an informed decision. So if they decide they don't want to vaccinate their child,

then they're basically signing a waiver that they understand that the risks. They can never leave your office. Well, they understand the risks. And sometimes the risk is even death, but they understand the risk and they can sign off on it. So I respect the parents, but at the end of the day, my recommendation is that they do immunize their kids, but I don't force it down them because a parent has ultimately has to make the final decision. But I want to make sure they're making an informed decision. Yeah, that sounds good. That sounds good.

Now, in your practice, you know, as you're seeing patients, what are the percentages, though, of that happening? I mean, I'm guessing that the overall percentage of parents want their children to be safe and want their children to be healthy and figure, you know, give the kids the shot and let's move on. You know, I saw my pediatrician with Diamond Physicians in the DFW area. And at this point, it's very low. The percentage of patients that decide not to vaccinate their kids is fairly low. And many times we talk to them about it. So when they come in for their well visits, we'll talk about it, we'll talk about their concerns. And at the end of the day, I do respect their decision.

But we do talk about it at subsequent visits. But yes, to answer your questions is fairly low. You never leave them alone, do you? We try not to. Yeah, it's your decision. But you know, you come back tomorrow. We're going to talk to you tomorrow. Right, exactly.

Sad. It's sad. So how are, all right, we want the parents to be safe. We want the kids to not be safe. But how is life in the Obamacare world for your pediatrician land? You know, our model is a little bit different where I work. So I recently joined a practice where it's based on the membership model. So the client basically pays a certain membership fee.

And with that fee, they get unlimited visit, zero co-pay, zero wait time. They have access to me via text, email, phone calls. And so we've taken out the middleman, the insurance carrier. So it's just me, the parent, and the child, and that's the way I feel medicine should be. And I think in terms of what the government has tried to do, or even with Obamacare, I feel like we've gone to the point where we've gone old school, where it's just the doctor and the patient, and we've cut out that middle person. So what we have is better health care outcomes, and we have better care at the end of the day and lower costs.

So nobody can I just walk into your office and say, hey, I'm here? I've got, seriously, I've got this problem with my elbow. I've got this, it's like a pinch nerve, and it really makes this hand go numb. I've got a little problem. And if I have to be a kid, I'm a kid. You're a kid. Can you fix me? Can you help me?

You know, we welcome you to come in for a tour. Oh, not now, though. You're not taking care of me now. We'd love for you to come in, Jeff. We really want to take care of you. So we welcome all patients to come in for a tour, and hopefully they would get to sign up. We usually don't take walk-ins, but we can always work with the patients and work with the price range.

to help all the pages. So looking across around the United States these days, we hear stories and I read stories all the time about different outbreaks that are happening, and it seems like it's happening more and more. It might not be. Factually, it probably isn't. But it feels like it is. And it feels like, I don't know, something is happening and something has to be done, right? Something has to be done. That's exactly right. When you look at it as a physician and looking at it through your eyes, what has to happen for us to, I don't know, maybe just feel healthy, right? Instead of, I mean, we are healthy. My gosh, we're the healthiest people in the world.

Right. I think, well, two things come to mind. First, I think it's important to ask questions. And I think a lot of the outbreaks that we're seeing is because of fear. And I think a lot of it's fear-based where people don't, for example, want to be vaccinated because they're scared. And it's not based on scientific evidence, but more of stories and inciting fear into people. But secondly, I think it's also important for good lifestyle, make good lifestyle choices.

And I think... Oh, you speak to me. Good lifestyle choices. You're talking to my talk there. Yeah. And I think even with kids, though, we try to drill it into them in terms of, you know, diet, exercise, and that kind of thing. Oh, now you're speaking my language. I mean, you can't get me out of a gym.

That's just... So I think it's twofold. Like, what I really want is for parents and families to be educated. and to be informed and the best way to do that is by talking to their pediatrician or their physician. If you do Dr. Google, you're going to be scared and you're going to incite a lot of fear into people. But on the other hand, it's making those choices and trying to be as healthy as possible. But at the end of the day, we know that even healthy children exposed to life-threatening diseases can die. And this is just a healthy child.

Right. I mean, that happens. That's your exception to every rule. Right. I mean, that is going to happen. Although it seems that we, want to not have that, right? I mean, obviously we're fighting for that everybody lives and nobody gets sick and all of that. But in the, in the big scheme of things, really, we need to think about the overall percentages rather than just the one minority. And I think still, I think a lot of times we get caught up into worrying about the minority and, you know, not seeing the not seeing the forest for the trees. Right. You're exactly true. It's pretty strange. So do we, do we, Do we mandate, we'll get back to, we'll get back to the vaccinations. You know, are we, are we, do we mandate it? Do we say, if you are anti-vaccination, you're the one that's crazy, not me? Is there, is there actually a, a good argument that the vaccinations cause down syndrome, causes problems that we are not foreseen or not being told about?

Right. Good question. So as of now, there is no clear scientific evidence that vaccines do cause those kinds of things like autism, like Down syndrome. There's no evidence to back up and say that that's true. So at this point, in terms of trying to keep the community as well as possible, and because we've seen a reduction, a sharp decline in deaths and hospitalizations due to vaccines, I would have to say that it would be wise to, but at the same time respecting the parents and making sure that they are well informed about what the vaccine is for, what are the complications that can come from it. I've been in practice for almost nine years. I have never had a patient come back and say that they've had an adverse reaction that caused seizures, that caused brain damage from a vaccine. I've had patients come back and say they've had fever, soreness at the site.

That's in the disclaimer they get, right? That's a side effect. You read everybody the commercial disclaimer before they leave the office, right? Exactly. So I've had those minor things come. but, and I've never even had a colleague to say that they've had a patient that had such a strange adverse reaction to it. So based on my, on my experience and the evidence that's out there, I can't tell a patient that if you get this vaccine, and that's my duty as a doctor, is to make

sure I'm keeping those kids safe. So if I felt that the vaccine I was giving them would harm them, I would not prescribe it because at the end of the day, I want to make sure that they're safe. So I prescribe it with the full faith that they're going in there. receiving the vaccine to keep them healthy. So are you a parent? I am. And do you give your children the vaccination? Yes, sir, I do.

They're fully vaccinated. Yes, I do. So, I mean, that's a little bit in your favor for the vaccination. I'll give you that, no problem. So what's the last word? Really, you're more into, I want to give you the information, but the information is get vaccinated. And if you don't get your kids vaccinated, you're.

you're not leaving my office. But it's your choice, right? Right. So at the end of the day, my message would be try to get your children vaccinated. That is my recommendation to get your kids vaccinated. I won't turn a patient away if they decide they don't want to vaccinate. I will hear them out. I will explain the scientific evidence behind it.

I will try to reassure them. But I will have them sign a waiver saying that they understand the risk. And they can't come to the office when other people are there, right? And yes, exactly right. And that's the great thing about Diamond physicians, actually, is because it's a membership model. We have patients that are there for 30 minutes to an hour. So we don't have them waiting in the waiting room. So for the kids that are not vaccinated, it's actually to their benefit because they do send a waiting room that's clear of any other sick kids. I bring them back directly into the room and we're able to see them right away. So I do, I really want to reiterate that I do respect those parents. And I understand that there is a lot of fear, but I feel that sometimes the fear is not based on. on true evidence. It's based on stories that are scary. Right. And so I want parents to be informed, to feel empowered. They can ask questions. They can ask it 10 times and it doesn't annoy me because I want to make sure that they're making the right decision for their child. Because we've seen this sharp decline, I can't

negate the fact that vaccines have saved lives. And it's probably the number one thing that I'm doing to help save lives. So I love that. Dr. Elizabeth Thomas pediatrician here in DFW. Thank you so much for stopping by. I appreciate it. Nice to meet you. I appreciate it. It was a pleasure. Thank you. I mean, I appreciate you stopping by, Matt. But I don't see any, you don't bring any booze. And I thought that would you tell me that's part of the stick. That's the producer's fault. I'm happy with blaming him. Yeah, yeah.

I'm happy with blaming Chris Cruz. No problem. Always blame the producer. I'm good with that. No problem. All right. So Matt Kibby joining us on Chewing the Fat. Matt, I appreciate you stopping by. Good to see you again. I know you've been wandering around here in the building, you know, asking people, hey, can you interview me about my new podcast? All right, fine. They actually locked me in last night, so I've been wandering the halls all night. Yeah, well, they chain that front door now.

Yeah, yeah. So once you're in, you're in, man. If the security's gone, you're not getting out. It's, and it's an amazing when you first come here and you're here before security, that chain on that front door makes you feel like, hey, look up I can't get in. Yeah. It's really fun. It's a good feeling. But it's like, it's probably like the firm, too, because, because I go away. way back with the Blaze and Glenn from pretty much day one. Yeah. They, you guys launched and now I'm back.

So maybe it's like the, the mafia or the firm or something where, you know, once you're in. Yeah, you don't get out. You can't get out. You don't get out. And that's probably true. I mean, I'm sure you're not the only one feeling that these days as part of the firm.

So, all right, so you've got the new podcast. Let's get, let's get business out of the way. And then I've got a couple things I want to talk to you about outside of, outside of business. So for the Blay.

TV.com. We've got the Matt Kimby podcast that we're, that we're already launched. The last time we talked to you, you were just getting ready to launch it, right? Yeah, Kibbe on Liberty. And I think we're four or five episodes in now, and we actually figured out how to use the microphones.

What? Really? We didn't necessarily the first time. Maybe it was upside down or something. I'm not sure. So, but you, the last time we talked, you were cleaning out your garage. Yeah.

For the studio. So that's all done. I mean, it's all good to go. It's clean. It looks. It's amazing how beautiful it looks. And I feel so liberated because I had all that junk from 30 plus years of marriage. And it's good to get rid of that.

Yeah. You know, sometimes it's good to get rid of the wife, too. Yeah. It's a passing note. She doesn't want to hear that. Well, she's listening and she will come to your house. I was just joking, baby. Yeah.

I was just joking. It's okay. You don't know my wife. She doesn't mess around. So are you still doing stuff with Free the People as well? Yeah, so it's, and I view this is kind of a partnership in that, but free the people is still about reaching young people who I call Liberty Curious. They don't know that they share some of the fundamental values that we have at Blaze TV. They don't know they share basic instincts that small L libertarians might have.

But I want to reach them with video and stories. and stories about people that are either doing beautiful things without the government involved or not able to do beautiful things because the government is involved. And just sort of personalize that on an emotional level because I'm trained as an economist and nobody, no normal human being processes things

in terms of incentives, cost benefits. The kind of stuff that I think about. Like, yeah, I'm the weirdo. I finally come to terms with that. Right. So I heard you to use, a little bit yesterday or the day before one of the days

when you were wandering around the building and you were on the news and why it matters you were trying to be optimistic and teasing a poll which does these polls do show up from time to time that makes you feel optimistic because it's like well

these younger crowd that you're saying you want to reach once they get the information then they feel like oh you know I guess I do like capitalism. I guess that is a good thing, isn't it? So what is that? What's the latest poll that made you optimistic with that? So the latest one once again showed that it's now at the margin, slightly more people like socialism more than capitalism. It's so hard to take. There's all of

these scare polls and they absolutely show that. But the honest ones dig a little bit deeper and they start to ask young people, what do you mean by that? Right. It's not just being social on Yeah, what is socialism? So you end up with these fundamental contradictions where they're pro-socialism, but they're absolutely against the government owning the means of production. That's crazy. And so you dig a little bit deeper, and I think we're caught up in language, and capitalism has a lot of baggage.

I think young people think about Wall Street bailouts when they hear the word capitalism. And socialism is right. It's social. It's not. It's not Mao murdering 65 million people. It's not pole pot lining people up and executing them. That's not. No, no, that's not.

And thankfully, at least now. No, they would never want that. And that would be horrifying that it, that they would be horrified that if you even suggest it as much. Well, thankfully, in, actually in today's world, and it's not good for the people of Venezuela, but thankfully for us at the same time that so much is being shoved down our throats as far as socialism goes, we have. have such an example of how it doesn't work going on right now.

Yeah, and I've read some, and I'll draw a bright line between sort of progressive thought leaders and the people that we're trying to reach because the thought leaders are still apologizing for Maduro and Hugo Chavez and the Noble experiments in Venezuela. And, you know, they blame U.S. foreign policy. They blame capitalism. They blame everything except the fact that so much power concentrated in one place is always devastating to people. Always. Always.

And it doesn't mean, I don't care what you call it. You could call it socialism, fascism, authoritarianism, whatever the ism is concentrated power leads to really powerful bad people clinging to power by any means necessary. And in Venezuela, and the same thing is true in North Korea. the same thing was absolutely true in Mao's China. The leaders actually use food as a weapon. People are hungry enough. And the way that they rationed food in Venezuela today is you've got to be loyal to the party.

You've got to be loyal to the leader. And if you want to feed your kids, by the way, we're not going to let you go to Columbia to do it. We're going to actually block you from doing that. Yeah, you can't leave it all. Why would you do that? You do it because it's about fear and control. by any means necessary and why anybody would think that's okay.

Boy, no kidding. So I think, I think, you know, the world has turned against the Madera regime, and it is a teachable moment, but it's tragic, and you hate to dig into these stories because, you know, people are eating their pets. Right. And people are doing things to feed their families that they would never have thought they would do two years ago. unimaginable to millennials or Generation Z in this country.

They can't conceive of a world where they couldn't just pick up and go to the store and get a meal. Right. It's easy. It's a given. Why would you do that? Of course. It's a given. So you have to sort of connect.

Like we're pretty lucky in this country. Things are pretty good. Yeah. And I go speak to people in Tbilisi, Georgia, for instance. I love people in Tbilisi, Georgia. Huge, my favorite people of the planet. Huge libertarian movement there amongst young people. And my theory is quite simple.

They remember what it's like to live under a quasi-socialist, Soviet-style regime. And they don't want it again because they didn't have anything and they didn't have any freedom and they didn't have any culture and they didn't have the right to speak up. And these are all things that we Americans just take the granted. It's like gravity. It's around forever.

It's just ours. Yeah. And no one's going to take that and like, well, be careful. Right. Okay. So a couple things to just lighten it up a little bit. I know that we're serious. We got Kibby on Liberty.

But I have a couple of things. I noticed one thing. One of the things that I am that I've done over the years working here at the Blazes, I don't like to, I've never told anyone my age ever. then, you know, it's kind of been, it's a running joke and it's a running battle that I'm 150 years old and everything. And that's fine. Like Yoda. Yeah. But I didn't, as I was looking up exactly about Free the People yesterday, I noticed under the Matt Kibby heading that it has you down as being born in 1950, which would mean that you are 69 years old. I've just lived a very good life. Now, I want to tell you something, Matt. And I know this. particular episode of chewing the fat and with Matt Kibby is not on video but you're looking good for 69 bro you know it's it's a healthy regimen of drinking and no sleep that that's a lot of you look good but what you're telling me and and hopefully this isn't the free the people

website but if it is no it was not it was someone's fired no i think actually what happened and i laughed about it because it definitely could happen uh to i know it's happened to to me because I've done it, I've made it happen, is that somewhere along the line you typed in for whatever free thing to download on your email or whatever that they asked you your birthday and you went 1950. And that has stopped.

Oh, I do that all the time. Right. I'll type in like 1901 or whatever, whatever's the easiest thing to do in order to get into like there's, there's all these stupid things, like you go to beer websites or whiskey websites. and they're like, well, you can't go in here until you prove that you're

21. All right, I'm old enough. So I make up the most absurd. And I'm sure that's what happened because the first thing that comes up here, you know, is Matt Kibby and born 1950. And I'm like, man, he looks good for 19. So you're saying that you're saying that not everything on the internet is true? I am actually saying that now. I wasn't.

I wasn't. I didn't start with that. I wanted to compliment you on how good you looked for 69 years of age. have the body of a 69 year old and the brain of a 17 year old. It will welcome. And it's a perfect combination. So one of the, I know that you are, you know, a fairly big of the libertarian movement in this country. And one of the big people that I've had on my podcast is John McAfee, who is fairly big in the libertarian movement.

But you do don't spell the same things. Dude ran for president. I mean, he's running again, right? I mean, he can't be in the U.S., but he's running again. And he claimed the last time I talked to him is that his belief is that he just wants the platform, right? He's not going to win. Yeah. But how does that affect the rest of the libertarian movement?

Honestly, I don't think it helps. And I sort of appreciate the, you know, I've spent some time just recently, the last couple of years at the Big L. Libertarian Party gatherings. and there's a lot of great people there. And to their defense, they have a very democratic process. Anybody's allowed to come. And there was a point when almost anyone was allowed on stage to present their point of view. We all saw that. And yeah, I remember the fat dude stripping was perhaps one of the most devastating moments in libertarian history.

Because it was exactly the moment when people were like curious. Right, they were all there. All eyes were there. Let's check out these guys. And the nice thing about that is that unlike the Republican Party, the last couple Republican Party conventions, pre- Donald Trump, when the party machine tried to actively disenfranchise Tea Party activists who had played by the rules and gone through the process,

disenfranchise entire delegations of Ron Paul. activists. There's something, and let's pick on the Democrats, too. The Democrats had super delegates that totally disenfranchise the Bernie activists. At least a Libertarian Party is, is an open democratic platform. But I do think that as they get bigger and more interesting, they're going to have to find people that represent their brand that can tell an interesting story to people that don't know what a libertarian is yet. Right. And John's not that.

He's just, he's like a crazy guy. Yeah. And he admits that. Yeah. He loves it. He loves it. Right. And I love, you know, some of his ideas are actually, you know, enjoyable to listen to when you talk about, you know, he can't come to

the United States, but he's still going to run and he's going to have people with masks and, you know, he's going to show up on the phone and he's going to talk to people. And, you know, that's funny and he's going to try to get some of his ideas across, although I think his ideas are being lost in all that craziness. But you have, I mean, but to talk seriously about the future of third parties, and I think that the Libertarian Party should absolutely be one of those viable third parties. The two political parties, I call them the duopoly, constantly gaming the rules

against any sort of competition. And the one thing that Republicans and Democrats will always agree on is they don't want any competition. They don't want them. The green, party, they don't want it from the libertarian party. They don't want it from independent candidates. They have a tough enough time dealing it within themselves. And by the way, they get to set the rules at the state legislative level in terms of ballot access, in terms of the presidential debate commission, is that the people that decide are Republicans and Democrats.

So we're not shocked that they change the rules such that Gary Johnson couldn't get on the stage. It's tough. It's sort of a chicken and an egg thing where a party like the libertarian. party needs to attract a really talented spokesperson who's willing to bet his or her political future on running third party. And until then, you're going to get sort of a grab bag of of really interesting good people, competitive people, and then sort of fringy people that are doing it for some other reason. Right. Like it's a platform, right? So right? Okay. So what you're

saying is that I shouldn't vote for John. You're telling me that? I didn't vote for John. I'm not sure you should. But that's up to you. I'm a libertarian. I'm not going to tell you what to do. I might judge you if you do the wrong thing, but that's okay.

That's certainly fine. All right, so Matt, I know M. Kimby, at M.Kibby on Twitter and your, Kimby on Liberty. Right? That's the name of the podcast. I don't know why I have a hard time because I keep wanting to say. Kibby with Liberty and it's not with, it's on. And that's, you go to the blazedtiv.com and you can subscribe to that. Do you have a special, do I, if I type in Matt or Kibby, do I get like 10% off or something?

I don't think I got a discount code. What? Because I'm worth that much more. Like you should actually feel good about paying full price for my product. And doggone it, I do. Yeah. I'm doing that right now. Thanks, Matt.

Thank you. I didn't think the guy would ever leave. That was nice to talk to Matt. I love, he's a good guy. But don't forget to subscribe, rate and review, chewing the fat. For sure, subscribe. Really, everybody else wants you to rate and review. And that's why I came up with the whole go ahead and, you know, rate at 20 stars and review it best podcast ever.

And then share with your friends. And, you know, just it's an easy way to share. You just hit the share button. And then when your email comes up, you hit your edit. address bar and whatever the first name pops up, that's who you send it to. And you just thinking to you and you send them a hit on the podcast. But really, all I care about is your subscription. The rest of it, let those other people worry about that. But if I'm going to be on my knees saying, hey, need to subscribe to chewing the fat, you just need to subscribe. Don't worry

about the rest of the stuff. So what you're saying is that you just want Allie to have the most review podcast in our network. Come to think of it. You need to rate and review. And that's most important to me. Other people want you to subscribe. I don't care about that. What I care about is the rate and the reviewing.

For sure, you need to rate and review and you need to rate it. Like I say 20 stars, but you can do whatever you want. And then you need to review best podcast ever, but you can review however you want, whatever you feel like coming to your mind. But you need to do that. And for sure, like when you share it with your friends, share it and then say, think of you. Don't forget to rate and review. Hey, that kind of works, doesn't it? Thinking of you, don't forget to rate and review.