Chewing the Fat with Jeff Fisher - Ep 829 | Deals a Deal! | Guest: Brad Meltzer

Episode Date: March 14, 2022

Census miscalculates… Tik Tok security... Meta changes… The socials and Russia… Lottery email…  Contestant search for What’s The Lie?  Who Died Today: an assistant, a sister, a puppet and William Hurt as well… Subscribe to the YouTube Channel…  Subscribe www.blazetv.com/jeffy / Promo code jeffy…  Email [e-mail]  Brad Meltzer joins me... Latest book ‘The Lightning Rod’ We discuss the past, present and future… https://bradmeltzer.com/Books/  Bingo Whisperer… Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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It concluded that the undercount rates for 20,000. and we're not statistically different from the previous tally back in 2010. And yeah, the scope of the flaws in the 2020 census were there. But some experts noted that many undercounts and other areas were not statistically different from those in the 2010 count. So you know what? That's a triumph after all. Oh, okay. So the total count of the U.S. population is 300.

323.2 million people. Up 5%. Give or take, here or there, somewhere around there. But it's fine. I'll worry about it. It's fine. It's okay.

All right? It's not statistically different. It's all good. Welcome. Welcome to chewing the fat. 93% of your life is spent indoors. But so many of our favorite moments are outdoors, the fresh air, the feeling of peace. Since warmer weather is, well, it's almost here.

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Terms and conditions apply. Live-O-O-O-R dot com slash jeffy. Good news. TikTok nears a deal with Oracle over U.S. security concerns. The social media app looking to store its U.S. user information, not all of it, just the U.S. user information with Oracle. Without the Chinese owner or the Chinese. government being able to access it.

If you say so. And good news, though, that the White House, this administration, just briefed the most influential TikTok stars on the war in Ukraine. And I wish it was Cabala Harris giving the briefing, but it wasn't. But they did that so that the TikTokers could be better informed.

when talking about the conflict to their millions of followers. Because that's what the TikTokers are doing, is talking about the Ukraine war. Man, if you look at all the TikTok lives, have you ever scrolled through the lives of TikTok. I mean, I have. I don't have a TikTok account. I may know a couple of people that have TikTok accounts.

And the lives, man, are the ones that I've scrolled through have not been Ukraine heavy. But maybe I'm, you know, looking at the wrong feed. But according to this, Russia is paying Russian TikTok influencers to post pro-Kremlin narratives about the war. Oh, okay. That's the same Kremlin that's banning Instagram. So Russia announced it would block Instagram in the country beginning today, following a series of temporary changes the company made to its violent speech policies in certain countries.

It's the first time Russia has named Instagram a target. Well, I mean, they banned Facebook and Twitter already in the country, so I guess, all right, if you, you know, you count in those separate, let's do that. Vlad was a little pissed at Instagram and meta. when they permitted their users in Ukraine, Russia, Poland, not everywhere, Ukraine, Russia, Poland, well, and a few other Eastern European countries, to call violence against Russian soldiers.

Huh. So they also temporarily permitted post calling for the death of Russian President Vladimir Putin and President Lushenko of Belarus. So, that's it, though. So? So? Well, Meadow is saying, oh, yeah, hey, we had to do a little policy pivot there because of the invasion.

So we wanted to, you know, begin allowing users to praise the Ukraine far right military unit. Oh, okay. They were previously restricted under the dangerous individuals and organizations policy. Oh, okay. Meta says that the temporary rule relaxations are, limited to posts targeting Russian soldiers, including POWs, and where the context is clearly about Russia's invasion of Ukraine. So the policy change is kind of concerning to all the human rights advocates.

There's so many of those on TikTok. I know we're talking about Instagram and Facebook. Meta defended the choice. Really? They defended the choices they made? Huh. If we applied our standard content policies without any adjustments, we would be removing content from ordinary Ukrainians expressing their resistance and fury at the invading military forces, which would rightly be viewed as unacceptable, or unacceptable, said meta-president

of global affairs, Nick Clegg. That's a good gig right there. Meta-president of global affairs? That's good. Now, for those of us, you know, people. peons that are under the standard content policies? You know, like, I don't know. Probably you and me. I don't know how many listeners are listening to Chew of the Fat in Ukraine right now. But, you know, welcome. How you doing?

I hope you're good with the new policies. You're not under the standard content policies. But Facebook has introduced a new automatic deletion of misinformation. That's good. right? Those of us under the standard content policies. And when, so what happens?

It's, okay, so we've heard from meta president of global affairs, Nick Clegg. Now, the Facebook vice president of communities. I mean, that's another good gig right there. Vice President

of Communities. Maria Angelido Smith. Okay. Incoming posts that contain content rated by third-party fact-checkers as false are declined before they are seen in the group, which helps reduce the visibility of misinformation. Does it? Does it, Maria Angelo Smith? I mean, yeah, I guess so just cut it out. Now, nobody needs to see that post. It's great that we are under the standard content policies.

Anyway, that's what's going on over there at the meta world. Chewing the fat at the blaze.com is the email address that I received this email from Braden. Jeffie. My wife told me the story linked below, and I have to hear your thoughts about this. if tips are split should she have had to split the winnings? I was like, okay, dude, I got it, all right, take it easy.

So I clicked on the link. I wasn't hacked, it was a real story. Although I will say, I did see the link that I clicked on when I got hacked in another thread this weekend. And I thought, ooh, it's still working. I mean, it's still out there.

It's still out there I deleted the guy From my messenger Yeah I knew I don't want anything to do with you bro I don't know It is not me in the video

Because the link It says is this you in the video And then there's a link And like I would click on it From that guy But the one that I got hacked from I was like I don't know And I clicked on it

As soon as I click I don't know We've been through that So anyway the email That Braden sent I did reply But I was reading the story It's a fascinating story

man. So this story, quick thubbnail and then I'll tell you the story, right? The lady gets a lottery ticket as a tip wins, the world goes to hell. So Edward Seward walked into Grand Bay

Waffle House and who doesn't love the Grand Bay Waffle House in Grand Bay Alabama? I mean, fuf, this happened nearly 20 years ago, sat down ate breakfast. That was the day that changed the life of the waitress serving him. As Seward was paying up, he gave the lottery ticket as a tip,

something he often did as one of the regulars. Tonda Dickerson, a then-divorced woman in her late 20s was the recipient on that Sunday. The next draw wasn't until the following Saturday. It's a Florida lottery ticket.

And if you're not familiar with the Grand DeBay Waffle House there in Alabama, if you go to Florida, Alabama's right next door and cross over, it's right there. This hand is is the panhandle of Florida. This is Alabama here.

Anyway, so you can see why you'd have some crossover. Anyway, so a week later, it hits 10 Mill. Nice. She elected for the 375,000

over 30 years. Dump. That's dumb. Now, they claim in this story she won and she decided to get the 375,000 over 30 years rather than a lump sum. A move generally regarded as wise among financial planners and other economic experts. Is it? Is it?

Because I say no to that. I am not a financial planner. And I can see that if you were to think that you were going to blow it. it all. Perhaps you feel better about your life, you know, knowing that you've got $375,000 coming for the next one at 30 years. But

my thought is, is that perhaps you're not going to have that 30 years of lottery money coming. We've already got some lottos in the north that are, you know, postponing payments. Hmm. Hmm.

So you'd be better off taking the cash payout. I just, I'll take care of my own money. Thank you. Okay, so she does that. Now she found herself in multiple legal battles with friends, colleagues, the IRS. I love, man. Me and the IRS, poof, as won. And even Seward, the guy that gave her the ticket. Okay, so the biggest problem she faced was claiming her money was her fellow colleagues, okay?

So court filings at the time, those colleagues claimed that the winnings from the lottery tickets, given by customers as tips would be shared equally. But since it was a tip, Dickerson believed it belonged to her. Okay. So it took the jury about 45 minutes to decide. That went to court and the jury said, yeah, no, you agreed to split any of the winnings. And I do agree with that. I did reply with deals a deal in the email.

I mean, that's why you feel bad. You're like, oh, crap. I bought this one separately. It wasn't with the tip. Good luck with that. Because everybody, whoever was there, and that's what they thought. And they had some customers that testified at the trial

that were like, they've talked about it with the cashiers before. Because they had a lot of regulars at the old Grand Bay Waffle House. I have to stop in there the next time I'm driving through the Alabama, Florida panhandle. Now, Dickerson appealed to the Alabama Supreme Court, which reversed the circuit court decision because the Waffle House waitresses, that deal was unenforceable because under Alabama law, it was founded on gambling consideration, which is illegal in Alabama.

Oh. Okay. So that's the same week that Seward, the guy who gave, her the ticket was denied by a judge he tried to get a new truck out of the deal he was like he claimed that there was also

an agreement she said she would buy me a truck if she won really yeah no get out of here the judge was like take a hike you're out of here now then then so we got that going on right so then her divorced ex-husband

she was divorced I don't know 97 a couple years before the lottery win was shot trying to kidnap her so he takes her and as she was driving a truck all the time they were driving she told her that he was going to kill her

he was like I'm going to kill you I want the money they drove to some to Jackson County on Highway 9D, you know where that's at, right there in Jackson County, and where he took her to the boat launch at Bay O'Heron, of course. I mean, that's right there who hasn't launched a boat at the Bayo Heron. During the trip to the boat launch, Dickerson's cell phone rang, but he didn't let her Martin, the ex-hubby says don't be answered or not answering your cell phone.

Well, I'm going to take out on a boat and kill you. So then it rings back again, and she talks him into Anson, answering the phone. Come on, let me answer it. I won't say anything. If I don't answer it, they're going to start looking for me and then, you know, they'll know it was you. He'll know it was you because, man, when I'm missing, you think, hey, I bet he's down Highway 90 in Jackson County at the airing boat launch, but you never know. That could be true. So then he agreed to let her answer in it. She reaches into her purse, pulls out the 22 handguns she's got in purse. I mean, it's kind of stupid of this guy. No wonder she divorced him. He doesn't take the purse.

He's going to kidnap her and she's still got her purse. I mean, holy cow. And she's got a gun in it. He doesn't take it? Dumb. And so then she treats, she shoots him. She doesn't kill it. Right. She shoots him in the chest. And then takes him to the hospital. Oh, man. And I guess he's he lived, I don't think any charges were filed or anything. They were just like, yeah, I tried to kidnap me. Yeah, I shot him. We'll go back home now. Oh, okay.

All right. Then the IRS tried to say that Dickerson owed a bunch of money from the deal because of the lottery win. Now, in court filings, the IRS ended up being wrong, to demand a million dollars in gift tax on top of income taxes after she gave most of her winnings away to families through other businesses

they set up. Plus, she had to split it up with the other waitresses. So then they claimed that the ticket was worth only a fraction of the face. That's nice of the IRS to come along. Nice of it. And so I guess now, according to the story, they don't know. They were checking her out

on some social media posts. You know, that's the new stalking. Just so you know. Everybody is a stalker now. Yeah, that's right. You could quote me on that. She works as a poker dealer at the Golden Nugget Casino in Biloxi.

So, I mean, I guess that's better than the old Grand Bay Waffle House working as a poker dealer at the Golden Nugget Casino in Biloxi. So I don't know if she's still getting, you know, if she's still okay, is she ended up with, you know, getting some money from the lotto or when the check gets mailed, it's already out. That's why, okay, if she had just did what she was supposed to do from the beginning,

make the deal. Like, if you bought a lottery ticket, haven't you ever joked around? And I say joking around because I would feel bad if I, you know, the one lady that I from time to time buy lottery tickets from I always say you know I win a ticket

I get a chick cut and I give you a cut how much does that cut be though I never say so I got to be careful what I say now right because if I hit I'm going to have to go back and give her you know 30 40,000 will that be enough

if I for 10 million you're welcome for 20 or 30, now I have 40,000. All right, 50,000. Get out of here. That seems, I mean,

only 10 million. Only 10 million. Seems, you know, if you were to hit the big one, you know, a couple hundred million, then, you know, give you a little bit of something, something from the stack of cash

I got in my pocket. You know, my rolled bills up in the pocket. How you doing, baby? Yeah, I hit. There you go. some money for you. But a deal's a deal, right? I mean, there were some other great stories that we'll get to this week about lottery winners

where they had fights in the office over the office pool for lotos and it hits. And the guy, the one guy, decided to, yeah, that was my separate ticket. That wasn't part of the office pool. Oh, no. I mean, you joke around about something like that, but not in real life, bro. No.

So, I mean, a deal's a deal. You make a deal. You tell someone you're going to, that's part of the deal, that's the deal. You can quote me on that. The deal's a deal. You tell someone that that's the deal. That's the deal. All, let's go to the break room.

I need something cold to drink desperately. Oh, yeah. Ooh, that did not have the fresh pop. hoping for. Still refreshing, though. All right, so we're in the break room. I've got some announcements for you here in the break room before we get to Who Died Today,

because the list of Who Died Today, man, I feel like I'm working at a funeral home. But the announcements here in the break room for chewing the fat, okay? I'm going to do everyone a favor that listens to Pat Gray on leased, okay? They've started bingo again. and the first person to get bingo

wins a prize. You get a coupon to get a prize from the store, Blaze Radio Store. What's the address again? Amorphophalus. Yeah.

Dot store.com. And if you're the first person to get bingo and call then, you know, you win the prize. And I know you're supposed to listen to Pat every day to cross off your bingo sheet, which is at there, you know, and to pin to the top of their Twitter account. So what I'm going to do for you at the end of each show,

the end of each chewing the fat, I'm going to give you the squares that were X'd off that day during Pat Unleashed. Can't tell anybody, okay? I am the Bingo Whisper for the Pat Gray-onleash show. Yes, you should listen. 100% should listen to Pat Grey-onleash. But I'm going to help you out.

Make sure you didn't miss any. Okay? All right. You can't tell anybody. All right. All right. Don't forget we got Talking Walking Dead tonight.

We're a smack dab into the middle of the final season and the second half of the three-part. season for the final season. And I've come up with a way for you to participate in our game show, What's the Lie? All right. Email me, Chewing the Fat at the Blaze.com if you want to be a contestant on what's the lie. And we've played every Friday here on Chewing the Fat.

I'm on, I don't know, I'm on vacation this week, okay? You know, the game show host. The game show host is on vacation this week. I just don't want to play. you email me to and a fat at the blaze.com and you know you want to be a contestant on

what's the lie I'm going to need if I'm going to need your phone number and a way to contact you that's the way to contact you actually the phone number and I'll reply to the email chosen and then we'll work out of time when we're

when we're recording what's the lie right so that you can participate in the two in the fat what's the lie? game show and hopefully your excitement will be a little bit more than the last few contestants we've had on what's the lie okay all right so who died today who died today so we have several people

who are on the list today busy monday in the world of who died today Jones, Jerry Jones, owner of the Dallas Cowboys. His longtime personal assistant. Maryland Love passed away. Rest in peace. Maryland. The entire organization is devastated. Willie Nelson.

Willie Nelson. The little sister died at 91. Rest in peace. Bobby Nelson. Emilio. Delgado 81. The Sesame Street actor.

He played Fixed Up shop owner Luis Rodriguez. You of course remember the Fix It Up Shop owner Luis Rodriguez on the Sesame Street. He played it for more than 40 years. I don't know that he played that part more than 40 years.

I feel like this is worded. The television series is, you know, 40 years old and he's, I don't know that the Fixit Shop owner was part of it. for the whole time, but either way. Rest in peace. Sesame Street.

Character voice. Louise Rodriguez. Dead. At the age of 41. And William Hurt. William Hurt. This one hurts. See what I did there? He passed away.

At 71. That really sucks because he's been working. He's got some other stuff in the can that's going to come out. now post death, which really stinks. And I was thinking that how great he was in Billy Bob Thornton's Goliath on Prime. He was, I mean, William Hurton was awesome on that series. And it's over now.

I think the four seasons was it. The four seasons was it. It was really good. And on Amazon Prime, it was really good. And I guess he's, and I guess he's, Ben, William Hurt, that is, had terminal prostate cancer that had spread to the bone. I'm guessing everyone knew that. I guess it was announced a couple years ago, but I don't remember ever hearing it.

And so he's been working and struggling for the last few years, man. I mean, that's sad. I liked William Hurt. I mean, an Oscar-winning actor. I liked Bill. Okay? So William Hurd, rest in peace at the age of 71. And another person in our Who Die Today segment.

Well, not really. He didn't die. Tom Brady. It's coming back. I wanted to try to find a way to work Tom Brady in as Who Died Today, but I don't know that I could stretch it that far. Who died today? Tom Brady's. Oh, well, we could.

All right, that's, you know what? Okay, here we go. You know, one more person in our Who Died Today segment, Tom Brady's retirement, died, this weekend. I know he's coming back. So, yay. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. A new era of fitness is here.

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For those of you listening live today to Chewing the Fat, it is the 14th of March 22. And we have, I have so many stories to share with you and so many cool things going on. throughout the show and this week. But I really wanted to sit down with Brad Meltzer. One of my favorite people in the whole world is here. I'm talking face to face, face to face, eye to eye, head to head, nose to nose.

I'll stop. He's here. Available wherever books are sold means that when I was purchasing carrots at Kroger this weekend, I ran across Brad Meltzer's new book, The Lightning Rod. So it literally is available wherever books are sold. Brand new book, The Lightning Rod. How are you, Brad Melton? I'm happy that it's in your grocer.

I will say that I've been, you know, this is 25 years of writing thrillers, and it's hard for me to impress my friends. But when I can get them in their grocery aisle, thank you. That's my goal. I know. I have it in my shopping cart. I made sure I kept it right.

up at the top. I didn't throw it in with the other. Right, no, no. I don't. So you want to advertise as you're rolling the car through the store. I appreciate that. So how's it going? It's good to see you.

Good to see you. Good to be here. And face-to-face, usually we've been on for two years we spent on Zoom and nonsense like that. I know. It's been insane. So your travel story for the book is chapter one. So lay it out for me. I got to do it.

Lay it out for me because I will move on from chapter one. Okay. So here we go. First of all, I've, The book was amazing. I appreciate it. I love you for reading it. So every book starts with my great fear.

And so my great fear is when you hand, the character in the opening scene hands his car keys over to a valet at a fancy restaurant. Yeah, baby. And the valet takes the car. Instead of parking the car, he hits a little GPS button on the steering wheel, says the magic words, go home.

And now the car plots a route to the man's house. The valet has his house keys because it's on his car keys. That's right. And now he's going to break into his house. this is a robbery. But as the valet breaks into the man's house, he sees another man waiting with a gun. This is not a robbery at all. This is a trap. And when his body goes to our hero Zig, who works at Dover Air Force Base, who used to work there, he finds something on the body that no one else sees. And it leads to one of the government's most closely guarded secrets. And I just ruined

chapter one of the lightning rod to you. There's only two chapters in the whole book. That's the way it goes. No, I'm joking. But that's the opening, as you know. And obviously, the research and the fun go from there. Well, if you know the characters, I mean, Nola, you know, is the artist that we learned about that they have. And we learn about some warehouses around the country, which I was an amazing little did bit. No.

Okay. I mean, you surmise that kind of stuff, you know, because, I mean, I think we've all pulled into parking lots of warehouses where the, I mean, and maybe even tried to pull into parking lots of buildings that say go away without saying anything on them. I would say they never say go away. The ones that make you go away make you feel like you should go away. And that's what these places are like.

So this is true. You know, I've taken my readers in the underground tunnels below Disney World. I've taken them into the secret tunnels below the White House. You've even taken listeners to this show into your office tour. To meet you in your office, that is one of the dangerous places in the whole world. And in this book I found, I love the research. Obviously, it's fictional.

It's all a thriller. but I love the real research. And for this one, we went and found out that there were actually about a dozen secret warehouses hidden all across the country to deal with bioterror attacks, whether it's anthrax, whether it's smallpox. And I'm like, you're telling me. I guess I'd kind of like to say thank you. Well, that's the thing.

The whole thing about it is like this is one of those times where the government does it right. It actually gets it right. I'm like, you're telling me the government has these warehouses that are within a couple hours, if there's an attack, they will have antidotes at your job. doorstep and no one can go inside and no one knows what's in there. I'm like, I want to know what's in there. So what you see when you're reading the lightning rod, what you see at the end of the book, the scene takes place at the end in that warehouse. I didn't make up what's in there.

What's in there is really in there. And that's the fun of the ending. It was when you turn that page and get to the end, you go, oh crap. Now, a question was asked of you as we were walking into the studio today. Oh, yeah. Where are the aliens? The funny thing was, I was surprised you ask where the aliens are. I feel like America used to be so worried about aliens. We used to, you know, if you remember in the 60s, everyone had a spot of the UFO. Everyone, but, and then what happened? Once we got cell phones and everyone had cameras, there were no more UFO signs. Little shy of reporting. The reporting went down. I wonder why that happened, right? I don't know. And listen, I'm the, I ever tell you my UFO story? It's a fantastic story. So here's a true story.

So I'm, I'm living in New York at the time in Brooklyn growing up as a little kid. and my mother points to the sky and says, oh my God, it's a UFO. It's a UFO. We see a UFO. We see a blazing across the sky. We're like, unbelievable. This is amazing.

We're so excited. And until we go in and watch the news that night or the next one, I forget which one it is. And it literally is, there's a report that says the space shuttle landed. And it was a space shuttle flew over into a flyby tonight because it was coming. And that's what we saw. We saw the space shuttle highway.

But for 24 hours, it was the space shuttle. But for 24 hours, it was the space shuttle landed. But for 24 hours, it was the greatest. It was so beautiful to see. And listen, I want to believe it. I believe mathematically that there's no way we're alone in the universe. Right. The universe is just too big.

But when we went to Area 51, we literally decoded on Brad Meltzer's Decoded, the greatest title show of all time. Possibly one of the greatest shows of all time. We love doing that for the History Channel. And I love the fact that they called it Brad Meltzer's Decoded. Because I was like, I said to my wife the other day, Honey, what are we having for Brad Meltzer's dinner tonight? Yesterday we had Brad Meltzer's pasta, and tonight I'd like to have Brad Meltzer's chicken.

And you as Brad Meltzer's wife needs to get on that. Right, when she basically said you can go sleep on Brad Meltzer's couch, is what she said. So it's nice of her. Which was nice and not even joking. So anyway, we went to Area 51 with Decoded. I'm not, I can't even express you how fast the black vans came out chasing us. It was like, the only place they came faster now that I think about, it the only place they came faster is when we went to Fort Knox. Fort Knox was like and

yeah and so when you see the black van you know like okay there's some good we've got some good action here so it was a fun one I loved I loved doing that show I've seen security come up fast like that when we were in Israel oh Israel is always not to be played with oh yeah there's security is beyond to the top and we were were we, anyway, we were on a road that you're not supposed to stop. And our guide said, well, I'm going to stop here. You're not supposed to stop, but we'll be fine. You know, just we want to stop and you can take a look and see the site here.

We were up to Golden Heights. Yep. And you're not supposed to stop here, but I'm going to stop here because I want you to see this. And I mean, it wasn't. 10 seconds. They were there. Oh, yeah. I'll tell you my favorite Israel story.

My nephew's in Israel. And I think it was a Masada. and you're not supposed to obviously you're never supposed to pick up anything because it's considered they don't want people to take it home it's sacred ground and he picks up a rock

not even to take it but he just picks it up because he's a kid and he wants to play with it and I'm talking 10 seconds someone comes over and says put down the rock they were watching the little kid take the rock I was like they're watching everything there there's security there when I want to do so listen I do a lot of study

when I do these books, I went to one of the guys who does like high level security for the government. Used to do high level security in one of the top security agencies, acronym agencies. And I always talk to the top people. In fact, I said to him, I said, how does the government now even have private, how do we have private conversations with other? Like, Jeffrey, how do you and I have a private conversation when the government can watch everything we do? Yeah, it's just, it's almost face-to-face in some dark corner. But I said, how do we send emails to each other? In messages, he said, he said, listen, Brad, he said, the moment you hit send on an email,

I don't care if you using WhatsApp, I don't care if you using Signal, you hit the send button, and it's in, in cyberspace, yeah, you're done. You're done. Anyone who wants to crack it will crack. He says, here's what you're going to do. Here's the trick I'm going to give you. He said, you're going to open up a hotmail account. You're going to write me an email.

He said, but don't hit send. Hit save draft. And then give your buddy Jeffie the sign into your email. him log in. He's going to log in, open your draft, read it. I read this somewhere in a book. I know you might have read this. And so then you hit save draft on yours. Now you and I are communicating no one's ever sent a thing in the cyberspace. It's a great idea until General Petraeus, the former head of the CIA, uses that idea that's in our book, the lightning rod, to literally cheat on his wife with his mistress. I said to my buddy, that's the idea you gave me.

You've got to give me a better one. So he's like, I got a better one for you. So the one you see in Black House, I didn't make it up, he gave me that. I won't ruin it. For the Black House, yeah. What you see for that, I didn't make that up. And the secret that he gave me is, is, we used to do when, when we were doing storm reports, if you didn't have, if you couldn't call in to do storm reports for the radio station, you could, the idea was to have the people reporting live and make it as their voicemail.

So that then I would call your phone and get your voicemail. And that would be the report. just a little thought I'll put that in a book I could use that in a book that's a good idea actually yeah so that's you know that's that way

but then anyone who calls gets the secret message that made all the telemarketer gets your secret message too correct so if you want telemarketers to have your secret message I have the idea for you

correct all right so the latest book the lightning rod awesome you've only you've had a few books it's 25 year anniversary now right 25 years of writing 5 years got awful piece of

is a print talking to imaginary friends like literally can't be crazier than talking to imaginary friends so you've got these you have the kids books uh you've got uh the lincoln conspiracy i think i know i know you have the washington or the lincoln conspiracy i think is my favorite yeah so yeah so we do so let's talk about this so obviously i write these thrillers like the lightning rod and i also do nonfiction books as well because my love of history just runs too deep so we did the first conspiracy about the secret plot to kill George Washington, and then we did the Lincoln conspiracy about the plot to kill Abraham Lincoln. And it's not the plot by John Wilkes Booth, what we all know. It's actually a plot against Lincoln at the start of his presidency.

Because to be sworn in as our 16th president, Abraham Lincoln has to go from where he lives in Illinois and come to Washington, D.C. raises right hand and be sworn him. But the only way to get there, if you're going to take a train, is you've got to go through Baltimore. Go through Baltimore. Everything stops in Baltimore and in Baltimore there was a group of white supremacists who planned to murder him as he came through Baltimore Q and on I mean truly like the bananas I mean they were ready to kill Abraham Lincoln on his way to be sworn in he's protected the scene in the book is there's a train moving in the middle of the night on the train are three people none of them are who they say they are they is a businessman there's a woman in her and with an invalid brother the man is not a businessman

man, he's actually Alan Pinkerton, the head of the Pinkerton detective agency. The woman is not a sister. She's Kate Warren, America's first female private eye. And the invalid brother is certainly not an invalid. He's certainly not a brother. That's Abraham Lincoln in disguise. They disguise him and hide him. That's how they save his life. And that's chapter one of the Lincoln's first. But what I loved about that book. Here's what I loved about that book, which you and I don't think have spoken about. But I love about the book is we use that book. And the murder plot is great. And it's always fun. But is what it says about Lincoln. Because the Lincoln, we all know is, is kind of, you know, the Abraham Lincoln who gives us the immense space in proclamation

and slavery and all the amazing things that we know him for and love him for. But what is fascinating to me is this is Abraham Lincoln before he's sworn in. So he's Abraham Lincoln 1.0. Right. When Abraham Lincoln finds out that he wins the nomination, you know what he's doing? He's on the back of where he works and he's playing handball with a bunch of kids. He's just a guy. And when he gets on the train, he loses his inauguration. He loses his inauguration. address they misplace it because he's not that organized they don't know when he goes to visit the last place he goes before he leaves illinois is he goes to see his mother who's still alive his dad's dead he goes to his dad's grave to say goodbye to his father he goes to see his mother who's still alive

his mother hugs him and says to him i'm never going to see him again they're going to kill him and amazingly of course she's right and you see this early abraham lincoln who's still figuring it out and what I love is when he gets to D.C. and it gets sworn in for his first inaugural address, this is a point where half the country hates him. Right? The country is divided into or ready. Whatever side you're on, you hate the other side. You think the other side are horrible people and morons. Does that sound familiar to you? Right. It does. That's a tad. And Abraham Lincoln, listen, the South, no one voted for Abraham Lincoln in the South because they didn't put him on the ballot. They wouldn't put his name on the ballot in the South. They said,

no, we're not put him on. We hate this guy so much. So half the country didn't even vote for him and he wins. And this is a point where, listen, he could do exactly what, you know, we see so many, we've seen so much lately, of course, is, you know, where you feel like one side is being ignored by the other side. Like when Trump was president, Democrats were like, you just divided us. You don't even talk to us anymore. Now Biden's president, Republicans, like, you don't talk to us. You hate us.

Like, whatever side you're on, we feel ignored. And I can tell you that what Lincoln faces that exact situation. He could easily hate the opposite side in the South and say, you know what, I hate you. And he goes in his inaugural address. Instead, he says, we should be friends, not enemies. And we need to defer to the better angels of our nature. And I love the fact that Lincoln stands for that. That's what leadership is.

Leadership's not about being in charge. It's about taking care of those in your charge. Okay, so I have a couple things that I do want to talk to you about before you go. But one thing I want to talk about is what's next? What are you working on? Obviously, the Lightning Rod's been done for 18 years now. You've had it in the can. So, you know, how many kids' books you got?

Are you writing? How many novels are you writing? What's your next history book? What are you working on? Okay, so here's what we're doing. So we got the next kids' books. So, you know, we do these kids' book series. In addition to fiction and nonfiction, we do a kids book series.

The Ordinary People Change the World Series, you and I have spoken about so many times. We did, I'm Amelia Earhart. I am Abraham Lincoln. I am George Washington. All fantastic. We love them. Did I tell you about the banning of them? Do you want to talk about that?

Well, we talked a little bit. We talked about it. You and I talked about it. The day. Oh, was that the day? The day. We did speak about that day. We overturned it.

Right. We had to re-tape it. So, right, so they ban our books. We overturned them. Here's what I found out since then. Right. You were the one I spoke to. I remember you calling me and be like, we got to change it now.

And I was like, oh, my gosh. I looked through history. I was like, why did that ban it? Why did they ban? I am Rosa Parks and I am Martin Luther King, Jr. Right? And I look through history, because I do believe that if you want to know the future, you look to the past. And I look to see what was the first book that was banned in our modern United States?

Like, what was the first one as a country that got banned nationwide? There's always been little ones in pockets. And the first book that historians tend to agree on is Harriet Peter Stowe's classic Uncle Tom's Cabin. Yeah, why did it walk? Right? Why did it get banned? Because, Jeffrey, people who were slave owners didn't want the idea that slavery was bad. being out in the public consciousness.

Slave owners didn't want the abolitionist ideas being out there. They didn't want them indoctrinated our children. That's the word you still see now, right? Indctrination. They're going to indoctrinate our children. If you ask people, you want your children indoctrinated, 90% of people on both sides will say, of course, no one wants their children indoctrinated. But if you ask people, hey, do you want to have a conversation about race that's age-appropriate

and so that maybe we can come together and be better people and get along better, 90% of Americans on both sides will say absolutely. So I urge people out there, don't take the fear-mongering bait of like, they're trying to indoctrinate your children. That word indoctrination is used against the black community, the Jewish community, the Muslim community, the gay community, every community out there that has been used through history to target. And I really encourage people to not take the bait and be fear-mongered.

And instead say, wait a minute, why should we have conversations about people? who look different or act different than us because to me if you're banning books and you're cheering while books are being pulled off the shelves of your library you're on the wrong side of history and I think we have to do better amen all right so next book sorry so next one they got me on my tirade sorry so next book is we're doing oh these are good ones coming in June I am I am Pay the great architect who did the Louvre we did it as a pop-up book so when the Louvre comes it pops up which I thought I'm a genius that I invented this

this idea of this pop-a book. And now I did that, but they told me that the reason, now that I picked this pop-a-book, I delayed the book by a year because of the supply chain. So it was done two years ago, but it's finally coming out in June. And they were making, I don't want to spend that. Anyway, and then along with that, this is the book I know you're going to love. We're doing, I am Dolly Parton. I am a fan.

We all are. Nobody isn't. And so she's been, her team has helped us with the book. It's been so incredible to work with them, of course. So I'm Dolly Parton comes in June. In September, the Ordinary People Change the World Series expands becomes not just ordinary people change the world, but stories change the world.

We're doing, I am Superman and I am Batman. You've got to get Superman in there. Got to get Superman. You know I love of Superman. And we're also doing I Am Wonder Woman. And then after that, we get to, we do the new nonfiction book, and that comes out.

We're doing it. It's a World War II book. I'm not going to talk about it yet because we got to, they want to make the announcement in like a week or two. But it's amazing. It's a World War II one that is an amazing story, real-life story. And then after that, I'm now currently working on the news, Ziganola mystery. Okay, good. Basically, a follow-up to the Lightning Rock.

I mean, you've got to be on work doing something. I mean, why would I just be sitting around like I always do? So you're a graduate of the University of Michigan. Hale to the Victors. Yes. And I was raised, obviously, in Saginaw, Michigan. And so I was born and bred University of Michigan, Mays and Blue. And now your son is going there.

My son's going to. You went to law school at Michigan? Columbia. Columbia. Okay. I went to undergrad at Michigan. Are you practicing law at all? Never.

I graduated and never practiced. What has that, how has that helped you? Well, first of all, it helped because I'm not a lawyer, right? So I'm like, now I'm miserable all the time. No, I mean, listen, I had. actually liked the law. I found it interesting. I found it intellectually stimulating, but my passion was to write. And let me tell you my favorite Michigan story of the past two days, because it's such a good one. I go for the Lightning Rob book tour, they put me in Cleveland, Ohio. My son comes in from

Michigan, drives down very kindly to cheer me on, drives down from Michigan to Cleveland. And they announced that I went to Michigan and the whole place booze because obviously they're all Ohio State fans. Absolutely. And I said, you know what's so great about that boo? Is I said, all the books that you're buying tonight, all those sales are going to pay my son's tuition at your rival. And they'd laugh and I'm like, I'm totally serious. You're going to do it. So that was my favorite response to Ohio State fans of all time. And obviously we love that rivalry. But to answer your question- Plus all the money from this room is going to the booster. Right, exactly. Just as of tonight.

All right. So, but to answer your question, you know, I think what the law did for me is it, you know, when I sat down in law school for the first day, the dean of the law school looked out at all of us and he said, let me tell you what the power of a lawyer is. He said, pick up any newspaper on any day and lay the front page out in front of you. And every single story on that front page involves a lawyer, every single one of them. No matter how big it gets, there's always a lawyer involved. So you're going to be in there in the mix of things you'll never anticipate. And what I love about that for me, and I think, listen, we all know that's a problem, not just a good thing. Right, right. Of course. But it's a lawyer and everything, of course. But it's a lot of

It showed me kind of where some of those levers are in the world in things you don't think about. And listen, I wouldn't be here. My first book was about the Supreme Court. That was set in the Supreme Court about a Supreme Court clerk who inadvertently leaked the decision before it was announced to the public. Without law school, I don't know how that works. I didn't know that there are 27-year-old kids helping the justices write the decisions,

that they're not writing themselves. They're certainly voting, but it's being researched. All the writing is done by law clerks just out of law school. I was like, I didn't know it worked like that, but man, I'm in, count me in. And I love the fact that it, you know, it showed me how the White House counsel's off of it worked. It showed me how so many things that I research. And even understanding Abraham Lincoln as a lawyer, he was a lawyer.

I had, I talked to one person who had, you know, obviously as a lawyer, and they believed that it helped them so much in their thinking process, you know, in that linear thinking. Yeah, it doesn't, you know, what the law teaches you to do is, you know, You know, people think that that law school teaches you how to kind of bang the desk and scream, I object, Your Honor and everything we sell in the order. Right, get your gavel out here for your robe. I've got my gavel, no problem. You do have the gavel.

He does. That is a real gavel for those who are listening. He truly, it wasn't his head against the desk. That was a gavel. It could have been, but it wasn't. Right. Same sound. But the truth was is what they teach you in law school is how to research and how to write.

You research and research and research. Like when they say, is this law constitutional? you don't just say, well, I feel it is. Yeah, it probably is. I probably, you know, I got a gut feeling. What you do is you're told to go to the law and you go to the case law or you go to the constitutional law. I mean, so much a law today is based on case law. Right, you go to what the previous decisions were.

You read what the rules are. You know, Seinfeld has a great line that says lawyers are the ones who read the inside of the box top for the rules for monopoly. That's who knows how to play monopoly. That's what lawyers are. And so there we are. And I love the fact that they taught me that. They taught me when I want to know, hey, how do we pick a Supreme Court justice? I don't just say, well, how do I think it is.

Go research. Here's how you research. Here's how you digested. Here's how you put it together. And that's what the law gave me is that kind of way to train my brain and my body to go research and to figure it out. And that's why the books are so great. And the latest one, the lightning rod from Brad Meltzer, available wherever books are sold. Brad, I love you.

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