Chewing the Fat with Jeff Fisher - Ep 901 | Greed, Power and Murder… | Guest: Ann McElhinney

Episode Date: June 25, 2022

Jeffy satisfies his serial killer fascination during this discussion with Ann McElhinney, host of Serial Killer: A True Crime Podcast. Topics include Kermit Gosnell, the people surrounding him and all the factors leading up to how this man became the monster he is today. They also talk about Ann's upcoming project, a film called "My Son Hunter" a chilling expose about the corruption of the Biden family. New Serial Killer Podcast / Kermit Gosnell https://serialkillerpod.com/ Update on My Son Hunter https://mysonhunter.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I have a fascination with them, I admit. And apparently, I'm not the only one. Welcome. Welcome to Chewing the Fat. All right, today we're going to be talking to Ann McElnerney. She is the host of Serial Killer, a true crime podcast from Unreported Story Society. It is about Dr. Kermit Gosnell. Now, you know, Anne, we've talked to her on this broadcast before.

We've talked to her husband who produces this podcast, Phelam McLare. So, you know, I'm going to have to ask her a little bit about what's happening with my son Hunter and what's going on with the movie. But first and foremost, I wanted to talk about the podcast, serial killer, a true crime podcast, and where we're going to meet Dr. Kermit Gossnell. I've listened to the first couple of episodes. It is awesome. And it's really fascinating. because they interview the different characters, but they're not characters,

they're real-life individuals that surrounded this man, this evil dirtbag, Kermit Gossnell. And what's most fascinating about this podcast is that you get to hear from Dr. Kermit Gossnell himself and find out exactly what kind of man this guy is. He has this arrogance. He has this narcissism. Loves to talk about himself. And basically, you know, we started getting in touch with him in prison.

And then he just phones all the time. And not only phones, but sends letters. So it's, yeah, it's incredible, really, really extraordinary. And he has this amazing demeanor. You know, you imagine someone in prison. You know, you would imagine, I don't know, a certain, I don't know, a certain demeanor. And it's certainly not the demeanor you get when you meet Gosnell. No.

You know, he has this soft voice. He talks like he's at a cocktail party. It's really chilling, actually. And then to hear the way he talks about what he did, it really is, it's really quite extraordinary. And, you know, if you were to listen to the podcast for nothing else, other than to hear this guy, it is really, really extraordinary. I found, you know, look, I've worked in, you know, in radio and TV now for a long time.

And you think I'd learn my lesson with people never look like they say. Yeah. But I was amazed that he does not sound like he looks. Yeah. It's just amazing. I was like, that's him? I mean, I actually went back and I started looking at pictures of him while you were interviewing him because I was like, that can't be him. Yeah, and he's huge, you know, physically, yeah, you're right, because he's this really tall imposing, you know, African-American man, you know, and then he has this like soft, mellifluous voice.

He's really articulate, particularly articulate when you get him talking about himself. but if you ask him a hard question, he gets suddenly, you know, a case of the verbal constipations and says, you know, and says things like, and his head will drop and he'll say, oh, oh, you know about that. You know, really, it's, I mean, quite extraordinary. And when I met him in prison, like he touched my leg continuously, but then apologized, but he was, he knew exactly what he's doing. He's highly manipulative. And when you realize the people, and we've interviewed a lot of them for the podcast, people who worked in the clinic, you know, he targeted people to work there who were, you know, had sixth or seventh grade education, were barely literate. And I don't

mean that, you know, I'm not, you know, denigrating anyone. But this is who we targeted. These are people who Jim Wood said you wouldn't let them mow your lawn. And they were giving anesthesia to these very poor minority people and killing them. Okay. So before we get into episode one, now you've got how many, how many episodes do we have to, do we have? We have six. So we have six episodes and people can find it, you know, If anyone's listening right now, they can find it right now by going to serial killerpod.com. Serialkillerpod.com. That's where you can find all the episodes. Fantastic.

We're dropping them like, we're not going to drop them all at the one time. So at the moment, there's one episode available. The next episode will be available in a couple of days. So, yeah, we're going to get a drip feed people. So it's not even a, I don't even have to wait a week? No, it's oncoming. All right. Then maybe I won't beg to hear them early.

Fine. We can send them. I couldn't wait. I couldn't wait. So I was fascinated by the interviews with him in the first episode and was incredible and in the second episode as well since I've made it through that. But the interviews that you have with the detectives and the people that worked with them, were they all willing to talk to you?

I mean, were they ready to hang this guy out to dry? And they weren't. It didn't seem like they were hanging them. out to dry. They were just talking a matter of factly, right? Yeah. No, they were happy. No, they were very happy to talk to us. I mean, you know, over the years, because we've been working in the story for so long, we know a lot of these characters very, very well. Detective Jim Wood, who's most responsible for putting Gosnell behind bars forever is a wonderful, he's just a wonderful human being. And Christine Wexler, who you also heard from Steve Docherty, who I think

is an amazing person to talk to. He's from the DEA, from the, you know, from the, Drug enforcement authority, really extraordinary voice, but also people from the jury, we talked to people from the jury and, you know, and people who are in the clinic and who were victims, if you like. You know, it's, yeah, some people aren't willing to talk to you and, you know, you can sometimes have that, but actually we're really happy that everyone we wanted to talk to was eventually willing to talk to us, which was great. So you really get a sense of the color and the depth of this thing by hearing all these different voices. Right. Well, I was really surprised that how this all started, you know, how we ended up getting this evil guy off the streets.

Yeah. Was what didn't have anything to do with him killing babies or, you know, didn't have anything to do with that. They were, they were trying to break some kind of drug ring down. Yeah, and that part of it, I think is really interesting. For people, you know, a lot of people really love true crime, including myself. Yeah, I'm guilty. Hello. Yeah, exactly.

And I just think that that stuff and having the tape recordings of the actual. drug deals that Jim Wood was doing with his partner, Gramlitz. Like the two of them would be, and just even the color of the stories that they would be like making these drug deals. And they had to get the money off the FBI because the money, you know, it's quite a lot of money, maybe $600 for a bunch of these prescriptions. And, you know, they would be phoning like, so they would be doing a drug deal and then say, then they had to, and it's incredible.

They do give the money to the drug dealer in these situations because they have to draw them in. Right. They have to get their trust. And then they get, you know, because obviously they're looking. for the for the for the for the kingpin who's in charge who's the guy right in the prescriptions so you know and they're you know doing these deals with these various drug dealers and i mean it's really funny and then they'll they'll have no money and you'll hear them on the tape saying things like you know yeah this bastard you know you know he owed me money and he wouldn't give me the money

if you could just and actually asking the drug dealer you know can you can you give me a byball this week and you can we you know can you give me the drugs anyway and you know i'm good for it you know I'm good for it to know. And to realize, you know, and again, all of that comes up to through these drug deals, it kind of extraordinary, you know, how, yeah, how these, how, how the whole thing operates. But one of the funny, I think, to me, it was quite funny, or chilling or extraordinary or dramatic, the moment where, the moment where Jim Wood and Gramlick are talking to the drug dealer and they say, look, you know, you said you'd, you said you'd introduce us to the, to the doctor who's writing the scripts, what's his name? And you hear the voice. You hear the voice. You hear the

voice of the drug dealer saying Gosnell and then you hear the voice of Grammledge saying Darnell? Darnell. You can figure it out. And then it's G-O-S-N-E and spelling it out and you're thinking of that

moment and what that moment meant and what that started. Extraord. Right. So then, you know, after we realized that, you know, we're going into the Gosnell House of Horrors, we didn't really realize it was a house of

horrors until we got in there. I mean, they were going in for the drugs. Sure. And then they realized, what is this? Yeah, yeah. That has just got to be horrifying. Yeah, and I think exactly, exactly as you say, they were like, they had no idea of what they were going to meet when they went in there.

And it was the evening. It was 8 o'clock in the evening. They were all waiting. Gosnell had been working this other abortion clinic that he had in Delaware. He arrives. They jump out of their cars. they say to him, look, we've got a search warrant for these premises. He's there and he's got like a takeaway.

He's got like a, like a, his stammer terriaki takeaway in one bag. And in another bag, he's got this like bunch of clams. And they're like, and he's got, again, with the super, super quiet voice and all this, he lous them in. And they all, you know, had the same reaction. The first thing that hit them, the very first thing that hit them was the smell. And these were hardened. These are like, these aren't young guys.

These are guys who've been on the force for 20 years, 30 years, have seen everything. Philadelphia isn't exactly Disneyland. You know, this was, these guys had seen the worst of humanity. And this took them completely by surprise. They were like completely stunned. And then to sort of see the cats and the cat feces. And then for Gosnell to say, you know, you guys, can you just hang on a moment here? Because what I need to do right now is I just need to feed these turtles.

And so then you have this like almost like literally. it's out of like a horror movie where he then opens this bar and they're like all these cops are there with their mouths open thinking what the hell are we looking at you and he bangs these clams together and feeds these turtles as his first priority

and then you know and then it goes bizarre from bizarre to bizarre they go you know they obviously it's a very large contingent of law enforcement went in there that night there was the DEA there was the Philadelphia cops and also the DA's office which was Jim Woods thing

And so they're like they're spread out all over the place. They're separating the workers. They're getting to hear these incredible stories. And then they're searching the place and finding, you know, in one case, finding in a room where people were having their like lunches and had their peanut butter and jealous samples. They're finding these row upon row upon row of these little jars with babies' feet that have been cut off. You know, I mean, you know, this is, you know, if you think of all of the crime shows you've ever watched and I've watched like a ton of. of them. You know, this is like right up there. Like this is right up there with, you know, silence of the lambs basically in terms of scariness. And then, you know, for them to have the next

thing, which, you know, just to say that, you know, that, you know, Gossel has asked, oh, there's a procedure you have to do, you know, and whatever. And he runs off. And then, and they're still continuing with their investigation. He comes back very shortly afterwards, wearing bloody gloves that are torn and he takes out the ceremony, the salmon terriacchi and start eating the salmon terriaki. And I think the thing that I, one of my favorite, one of my favorite moments from this whole thing, because the humanity in this thing is so amazing. One of my favorite moments is where Jim Woods looked at me, like straight in the face, not

joking, and said, you know, Jason Hoff, that was the guy from the FBI, young, real cool guy from the FBI. You know, Jason Huff can't eat salmon since then. And I was like, looking at him. Oh, wow. I mean, this is like, yeah, I bet he can't, you know. It's just amazing. So has he in your talks with him, and obviously we may get to that in the remaining episodes of a serial killer, a true crime podcast from unreported Story Society.

And if you go to serial killer pod.com right now. Subscribe. You'll get all the episodes for free, yes. And you need to be sure to subscribe to that. We'll find out, does he ever, throughout the trial and throughout all your interviews, Does he ever say, ever admit to, yeah, I was killing all these babies and I was selling drugs to all these people on the street writing scripts because I needed more cash. Was it all just about the money?

Was it about killing the babies? What was it about for this guy? Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, I think Reed definitely plays a big part. I mean, when they did the raid on his house, they found over $250,000 in cash in the house. Who doesn't have that laying around? Yeah, you know, I mean, exactly. sure we've all been there right he owned 17 homes he had a home you know down at the coast like

money certainly was part of it but i think there was a power trip going on as well and i think you know we know from the story he's he's a racist and that's going to sound really weird right because he's this african-american who's racist toward african-americans because we know in the clinic that the women the poor women and the african-american women were treated had different different facilities to the white women. So white women had a nice room upstairs with all kinds of nice things. And the rest of the place was just this complete hellhole

which was good enough for them. You know, I think it's very hard to know. But I think there's a power thing, there's a money thing. And he's a very, very disturbing. He's a very disturbing character. Well, he's an evil man. Yeah.

And you ask about, does he admit to stuff? Like, there's a very interesting moment, and we have it on tape, where he basically admitted to writing the scripts. And it's a very bizarre exchange. It means kind of funny. But basically he sort of says, well, you know, when there's a recession, you know, when's like economic, you know, people have to try to make money some way. Right.

You're right? You're right? I mean, he's right. Yeah. But yeah. But I think writing prescriptions for opioids that are going to kill people, not the ideal way to help out during a recession. And there's also a moment in episode six, actually, which I really got, hang in there. for episode six, there is an extraordinary moment that I thought was really, really chilling.

And it happened like only a few months ago. You know, we've been talking to him for hundreds and hundreds of hours, as I said. And he basically admitted to doing what he did. He basically admits that, yes, the babies were born alive and I cut their necks with scissors. And I did it to put them out of their misery. Like he basically says a version of that. And it's extraordinary, you know. Yeah, I mean, this guy is, you know, if he talks a lot,

long enough. Of course, that's the thing. He's going to get himself into trouble. And he's going to tell the truth eventually. But he is clever. He is very, very clever and very creepy. Wow. So he's in prison now forever. I mean, what was the final? So yeah, I love the way America does this, by the way. I think I don't know if every country in the world does this, but he's got three life sentences. Okay. No, but plus, I love this plus, you know, plus 20 years for the drug offenses. just in case the three life sentences aren't quite enough, you know. And he's in Huntington Prison in Pennsylvania. You know, it's a chilling, it's a chilling environment.

I've been there. And, of course, rather naively, because I watch so many true crime shows, I thought he would, I would be talking to him behind the plexiglass. Like you see, in all our, in all the things. But he's right across from the table. Right across from you, right there, you know, and moved his, she was able to move his chair, had the ability to do that, to move his chair and he put his chair right up against me

on front of me and his legs on both sides. Of course he did. Of course he did. Really, really, really creepy. And those are the kind of things. Sadly, you've got to do if you want to get the interview, right? I mean, it has to happen. You can't say, dude, back off me. I want the interview, I know.

Yeah, absolutely. And then at the end of the interview, and I remember I was there for about three hours, you know, at the end of the, I remember he just got, at the very end, he got kind of disgusting and was trying to, you know, trying to unnerve me with stuff. And I remember thinking, you know what, I've got enough right now. And I said, you know, that's it.

We're out of here. And he's any kind of looks. And it's so funny, he says, are you going to buy me some treats? Like, he literally says, you're going to buy me some treats. I'm like, what do you mean? And, of course, there are these vending machines in the visitors room. And the prisoners are not allowed to use the vending machine. So the visitors then have to buy them.

So I thought, oh, you know what, I'll buy him a treat. So, you know, I got him some cheese. Oh, that's so nice. I know, but that's the time to me. That's just me. and I'm all hard when it comes to serial killers. I need this guy to keep talking to me, you know? And McElnerney, a host of serial killer,

the True Time Crime podcast about Kermit Gausnell. Fascinating. I really enjoyed the first couple episodes that are up at seriolkillorpod.com. So you are also involved in another project with your husband, Phelamackler, and on a film called MySinclair. on Hunter, of which we've talked to Phelham and you about a few times on this show. And before I let you go, I know that you've been working on this podcast, and I know you've been busy on other things.

But where the hell is my movie? What's going on? We're missing. We've put too much on the floor. Are we trying to tape it back together? What's happening? We have a fabulous movie that is complete. The editing only ended quite recently, by the way.

It looks great. It sounds great. And it's coming at you very, very soon. I can't give you any specifics. But honestly, just hang on. Watch this space. But the film is really, it's entertaining. It's gorgeous to look at.

And it's chilling. It's scary when you realize the level of corruption of the Bidens. It's really powerful. We're really lucky with the performance. We have Gina Carrano. We have Lawrence Fox, you know, John James, and obviously directed by Robert, the great Robert Davy. It's, it's, we're excited.

I mean, honestly, I don't think anyone on the conservative side has ever seen anything quite like this. Because, you know, if, you know, you know, you've been around long enough to have watched enough conservative movies. I mean, you probably, you know, right? And so, you know, quite often the lighting isn't great. You know, the performances maybe aren't great. And also, everything is very parental guidance, right? It's all very PG and all that. I have to warn everyone.

We're, we're making this movie about Hunter Biden. There's no way we want to be able to do. you know, PG-12 or 14 or 16 or the rest, right? Yeah, I'm kidding. So it's a grown-up, it's a grown-up movie about a very grown-up topic, and it's very important, and it's going to be out very soon because to know. That's very good to hear. I mean, but it has to happen because without knowing what kind of, you know, drug-addicted,

sex-addicted, madman hunter is, you don't realize what else is going on. to just brush by that, you lose that whole dirt baggedness. I know, I'm glad to hear that it's close. And you know, as you say about like the drug addicted, you know, as Irish people, we can't say anything much about drug addiction or alcoholism, right? Because we kind of invented that and exported it successfully around the world. So, you know, we're very sympathetic actually to people with addiction issues. And this movie isn't, you know, an opportunity to, you know, to, you know, to, to, to, to, to, to,

to give Hunter Biden a hard time for his addiction. It is an opportunity, however, to ask these extraordinary questions and to look at this guy who is drug addicted and has alcohol issues and at the same time is getting $83,000 a month for five years from an energy company in the Ukraine. And you have to ask why? Would that be the case?

Why would anyone be asking this guy who is, you know, according to himself, according to his own book, you know, according to him, you know, he didn't sleep for weeks on end. and you're meant to think that that guy was giving a valuable contribution to the board of Burisma. And you know the truth is he was. He was. And we all know what that contribution was.

And it wasn't in the intellect of Hunter Biden. He had what they call the big guy. So, yeah, we're very excited about the movie. We're very excited to share up with everyone. And it'll be coming at you very soon. I'm happy to work right now. All right, fine. I'll be sure to listen to each and every episode of serial killer,

a true crime podcast about Kermit Gazzanel. If you could get people, please subscribe. It's free. Please download the episodes and leave a review. The reviews are really important because we want to be right up there. We want to be in the top 10 true crime podcast everywhere. So, yeah, the really helpful thing to do is subscribe and leave a review. That would be so great.

And I could subscribe at... At serialkillerpod.com. Serialkillerpod.com. Thank you so much. And McElner, thank you very much. I appreciate you coming on chewing the fat today. I love it. Thanks for me.

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